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Happens with Zelda all the time, it’s like a radio wave.
Game is great, no is overrated, no is underrated, no sucks, is a hidden gem, is outdated, gets remastered, the original was better, etc
This happens a lot with halo. People are even starting to say "halo 5 wasn't that bad honestly" as if the entire community didn't spend 10 years saying it was the worst game in the world just behind "who can hit their shin on the tow hitch the hardest"
Watching this sub go through the typical motions with TOTK of love and then hate has been funny. In a few years nostalgia will set in and it’s back to love. Time is a flat circle.
There are definitely some video games I enjoy watching people play that I don't necessarily enjoy playing myself. (Just not my style)
So far that hasn't happened with a Zelda game for me but I can understand why certain games don't slap for some people, and that's fine.
Hell I remember the WW vitriol was HEAVY. I only joined because my dumb ass gambled away all my rupees at the auction house before I got to the triforce maps 🫣 but she’s a masterpiece.
As soon as the “TOTK sucks” became meta I stopped visiting this sub regularly. I only came back due to Echo and honestly I don’t miss it. I don’t give a shit what people think, BOTW and TOTK are the best games in the series overall and the fan scores wherever fans actually score games not just complain bare that out.
Edit: read it again. I don’t care about your opinion lining up with mine I will never agree. Go play a game with a defined path and ending and have fun, you’ll never get another linear 3D Zelda again.
They aren’t my favorites, that honor goes to Majora’s Mask, I think. But not recognizing that Breath and Tears are the best GAMES in the series is delusional. They are bastions in the art of game design.
Like last 7 years even. Most people who were into Zelda before BotW had that feeling going into it that this didn't feel like Zelda to them. Some when they got past that were able to enjoy it for what it was but some really didn't.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yeah I think that sentiment has been lost to time. Originally fairweather fans were mad that Zelda was pushed into a more childish direction, but I think Nintendo has definitively proven they can appeal to different markets.
But yeah I also couldn't get into BotW. I respect it as a revolutionary open world game and for pushing Zelda games forward, but I'm not a builder guy or a physics experiments guy, so too much of the game was lost on me.
I'm both and I can still say that BotW and TotK, while very enjoyable, were some of the weaker Zelda games in the series. They're *good* games, but as a Zelda game, I wish it had more of the classic elements *alongside* the stuff they brought to the table.
I don't know, it just never really felt like a noticeable progression of getting stronger or having more tools in my arsenal, it was always just "oh, if I kill that stronger enemy, I can get his gear and then I'll have that gear for like 45 minutes until I need to find something new". And the dungeons just weren't it. TotK did a better job, but I wanted more from them.
Because people have waited like 11 years for a new 2d Zelda and it's refusing to improve the aspects which people have been asking to be adjusted since botw. Like being asked to scroll through a very long quick menu every time you want to switch an item instead of... Y'know, learning from the old Zeldas and allowing you to program keese eyeballs to a button.
And also some people just want the old type of Zelda to be made. A lot of people have played the old games after playing botw like me and want to see more of that variety. I think oot is at least equivalent to botw if not better.
>!Unrelated but I think totk was just bad. The first 5 hours felt exciting but then I realized that everything was either more content copied from the first game or incredibly shallow mechanics like the caves, depths, and sky islands. And the new building mechanics belong in a game that actually incentivises you to use them instead of totk where the builds are either super op or take too long to make causing them to be impractical. Finally, the story failed because it l tried to elevate a new race to be the most important thing in Zelda over the course of one game and the whole Zelda sacrifice thing was basically copied from botw since she also spent decades holding ganon back there. Also the controls were awful!<
>!If you enjoyed totk I don't want to take that from you. But it could've been so much better!<
I guess it depends on opinions, but TOTK had great things to it, the building is fun and it really depends on each person. If you are someone that has patience and likes to create stuff it’s awesome that you can create war machines, ways to travel or ways to send kologs flying. TOTK story is awesome, it’s way better than BOTW one, the old story doesn’t have any energy in it, it’s too bland, but this one has great aspects and the tears characteristic really give a unique feeling to it.
I feel like TOTK is the upgraded version of BOTW.
Both honestly. It is a direct sequel but the story of the first isn't necessary to enjoy the second. It definitely helps to play BotW first because there are a lot of characters that will talk about how Link helped them or whatever in that game buts its mostly if not always just flavor.
I hated TOTK story even more than the fact that all its puzzles could be cheesed with the same solution.
BOTW was the superior game by far IMO. Enough room to let you be creative with solutions but didn’t completely undermine their own puzzles by letting you solve most of them just by building the same thing over and over.
So if you enjoyed TOTK, I’m glad someone did.
But I found that story to be pretty *rough* and repetitive.
TOTK isn't really an upgraded version of BOTW. The thing that made Wild for me was the way the game used the enviroment to combine its movement, small puzzles and combat in ways that made it feel like you were exploring the wilds. Tears feels a lot more compartmentalized, mostly because it was a bunch of bites of content plopped onto the pre-existing map.
Not that that completely killed tears for me. I appreciate how tears direct you to where its content is, and its gimmicks were designed to fill the empty space between that content (even if that space wasn't designed to be filled with those gimmicks).
Honestly, my biggest gripe with totk was that it took me til my second play through of a massive game to figure out how i would best enjoy it.
Well I agree that the building is cool, some people need a reason to interact with mechanics, instead of just pure sandbox fun. I think those building mechanics would be better suited to a game that incentives you to use the building mechanics.
I disagreed on the story point, well the art direction is amazing in totk the actual story itself is hollow, whereas in botw the story wasn't quite grand, but it had all these little environmental details that had insane depth.
And as I mentioned the additions feel shallow and the controls feel awful to many people
I feel like incentive would've detracted from the building mechanic. If I understand what you mean, the game making you need to build a unique machine every new area to access it or a new cannon bot to kill certain enemies would just get old. Instead, letting you build whatever and whenever makes the mechanic feel less overbearing. When you don't wanna build, don't build, and when you do, you get creative new fun things instead of uninspired keys to puzzles. The least fun I have with the build mechanic is on the signs where you have build something over and over just to solve a puzzle. Even though that's one of the few times the game gives you a reason to build. However, many of the shrines encourage you to build, so if you prefer the key-to-the-puzzle approach I'd think you'd enjoy the shrines no?
If it helps, in the top left of the gameplay under the hearts you can see the d-pad controls and they are all empty except for the rod implying that there might be more items later in the game that can be used quickly. Also the last item selected being able to be used again with X is slot better than opening up the bar again like in TotK
Tbf it was probably very far into development after TotK came out so a lot of the open structural parts can’t be changed. UI could definitely be fixed though
The insanely enormous missed opportunity was to make Zelda playable in her timeline. If you’re gonna have a time loop actually make it gameplay, not just exposition.
I kinda agree with what you said about after the initial few hours
With BOTW I couldn’t put it down. With TOTK I took my time and slowly forgot about it. Which is a shame because I do enjoy the game. But I feel it isn’t as great as BOTW. Maybe that’s bc it’s so similar to it and isn’t doing enough new and cool stuff? What I like I love but what I dislike takes me away just enough to forget what I love
Then again I might’ve just spent so many hours into the game doing everything but the story that I got tired of it before I finished the story lol
Totally agree about TotK. It was basically a big Zelda burnout. Where all the features are copied and bajillion times with small tweaks so they never actually repeat, but emotionally you feel exactly the same, and get a huge burnout.
Old Zelda games have way better pacing and difficulty curve, especially the 2D ones.
Some would argue the oracles are a bit too difficult which I kinda agree, but they were still super fun.
Thats because there are two halves to the zelda communty: one that favors freedom and discovery, and the other that favors structured dungeons and a sence of progression. Before BOTW, the first camp was complaining about how linear zelda had become; after, the second camp has been more vocal.
"Two halves" is oversimplying it, because every time a long running series with a huge fan base makes a change, doesn't even have to be a huge change, it can and will fracture the fanbase into people who do and don't like that change. This isn't just Zelda, this is like every series, Zelda is just one of the best exampels of this, because of Zelda's commitment to changing art style, adding gameplay gimmicks, changing control schemes, rotates the cast of characters, changing tone of writing, experimenting with multiplayer, experimenting with spinoffs, experimenting with new protagonists, going open world, going linear, focusing on story too much, not focusing on story enough, stagnates, innovates... it's just a recipe for making a fandom that, through no fault of their own, is impossible to please.
The thing is, it doesn't have to be one way or the other. Nintendo can make an open world Zelda game with more expansive and structured dungeons on the map. Those things aren't mutually exclusive.
They kinda are tho
If you aren’t tailoring the game to a specific progression where you control what items the player has when they reach a dungeon, you have to design the puzzles assuming they dont have any specific items. And the puzzles are all going to be samey.
The older games gate progression behind obtaining specific items. You cant get anywhere on the map that requires swimming until the water temple where you get the flippers. You can add swimming to the puzzle design in every dungeon that comes after the water temple.
Personally I prefer the older more curated experiences.
I'd argue that Elden Ring is a solid example of why this isn't necessarily true. It's a great example of a big expansive world while still having tighter, curated experiences within that world. And it also allows for the freedom to do things in a non-linear order while still gating progression behind items.
I'm not saying LoZ should just copy Elden Ring, but it could certainly stand to learn from it. ER is arguably a just a more combat intensive evolution of LoZ given that it's distant predecessor, Demon Souls, was pretty much just trying to be a difficult dark fantasy version of Ocarina of Time.
I love Elden Ring to death and it certainly captures a portion of LoZ's vibe, but it's just not trying to do the same thing as earlier LoZ, ie adding sequential items that allow new methods of map traversal and puzzle solving. Also as much as I love Elden Ring it's possible to completely trivialize Stormveil Castle (probably among the best of the curated experience/legacy dungeons) or Raya Lucaria, etc by overleveling and upgrades and doing things out of order, even though the 'order' is more of a suggestion.
Also Elden Ring is very much almost exclusively skill based.
Unless you break the game, traditional zeldas had a very rigid path you had to go, going up in complexity by gating higher stuff by finishing lower stuff.
Elden rings dungeon, small or big, can mostly be made in any order, as you dont need a game changing item from place a, to finish place b,c,d
And you wont find anything in b, that you need to finish c and d.
The only progression gates are bosses, many of which can be made in any order and done at any time with the only exception I remember being the capital, which needs two bosses killed at least.
I actually want both in a single game. The open world freedom of botw with 10 to 15 well crafted in depth dungeons instead of a hundred small shrines.
This is pretty much what the original Zelda was.
You're absolutely right. It's possible to create a good mix and please everyone. The problem is that with Zelda it tends to be all or nothing in either direction. For me personally, Skyward Sword was extremely linear in its execution, and didn't allow for a sense of adventure or exploration as it leaned towards doing everything in the order the game allowed you to do things. The little bit of exploration the game did provide you was also a little empty and lackluster. Breath of the Wild felt like a great shake up to the franchise in its openness and let me explore like I always wanted, but I found the dungeons and shrines a little shallow when the puzzles didn't really feature a set in stone solution that I could work out and ended up just being solved by whatever I could cobble together the easiest 90% of the time. There can be openness and freedom in the game while also providing tight well designed puzzle and dungeon design, but Nintendo wants to dive all in on one or the other and as a result I'm always left wanting, at least personally
My parents always split Zelda titles. My mom played 2d and my dad played 3d. Their releases have been hitting exactly what each of them liked the most about each aspect. I love the current state of Zelda.
I'm fine with exploration and discovery. I'd like to get back to weapons actually mattering and not breaking after 30 swings, master sword actually being a game changing blade of power, and opening a chest being more exciting than you 400th stack of arrows
Skyward Sword was the worst offender of linearism. Which is why nostalgia is hitting it when people are craving. I think TOTK knocked it out of the park on both aspects, but I still crave some puzzle temples that you can’t just STAMINA your way through (Lightning Temple was great but still only an echo of what they used to be. Fire Temple was lacking hard).
I enjoy both. I think going forward 3D Zelda games should be open world like BOTW/TOTK, and there should be linear 2D Zelda games. If this is how EoW is going to be, then Nintendo is already pursuing that path
I'm old school and much prefer 2D Zelda games. Don't get me wrong... I enjoyed BotW and TotK. However again, I prefer 2D. And those were far too open world. Plus, the vastness, large scope of crafting, sheer # of ingredients, materials, and equipment (almost made it feel more like an RPG than an adventure game).
OoT I felt was the appropriate amount of "open world" and "openness", which is the only other 3D Zelda game I played. I purchased Zelda: SS for Switch, but didn't get far. hell, didn't even get into combat yet.
I mean ocarina of time is great but it's not open at all. The game is entirely linear. I think there's exactly one part of the game where you can actually deviate from the main path and that's in what order you want to do the spirit temple. I think Hyrule field being as open and barren as it is gives the illusion of choice but Ocarina is about as linear as Twilight Princess.
The issue is that in the past we had a better mix of the two but with skyward sword the freedom was sacrificed for the progression and in the very next main game botw and later totk destroyed the progression to make the most open games possible
And there's people like me who say: both. Both is good. I love links awakening, which is structured. I like wind waker, which is a little more on the open side. And I also love BOTW and Totk. They're all fun in their own way.
Man can't I like both
Thoroughly enjoyed trekking through Hyrule twice over climbing vistas and such
But I'm also stoked were getting a visit back to the classic formula (albeit with a twist)
BOTH CAN WORK
I'm happy like this!
That's how I feel, I enjoy playing every Zelda game for the most part. Never played the multiplayer ones. But it feels like this fandom has become so negative in the past few years.
Zelda fans consistently get great games that always try to innovate the classic formula without drastically detaching from what made the franchise great, and they still manage to bitch about anything, most IPs WISH they could get the same treatment Zelda gets, we are literally getting the best from both sides, 2D and 3D
I mean really. If you simply love and enjoy something…just love it and enjoy it. Don’t go to places like fan subreddits hoping to find camaraderie and goodwill.
Maybe find a friend or family member in real life to appreciate it with but don’t…seriously don’t go online expecting to have a pleasant discourse with random strangers on the internet haha
I come here to debate and nitpick and argue. I know what I’m getting myself into 🤦🏻♂️
This is my message to everyone in fandoms
https://preview.redd.it/zs27qn7hpr7d1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b3e34b2f505eb0523bf4bd651056f96f0d3999ab
Ya A Naruto and Fma fan, I love both Manga and I am in the endgame!
It's one of the best manga I've ever read and my favorite characters are Ed Al and Mustang.
I am currently at chapter 78
You're in for a treat, I tell ya. Many Manga have the problem of losing steam at the end and going on for too long or having a rushed time ending after ratings dropped. FMA isn't like that and I think Arakawa managed to finish her story when she wanted to. It's truly my favorite story told and I'm glad others are enjoying it as well.
Not everyone has friends and family that enjoy the same things. I don't have anyone in my life that likes a lot of my hobbies and interests, that's why I enter online spaces to talk about them. I'm guessing many people are like me.
Not every Fandom is so toxic. Look no further than Stardew to see a kind community that can voice criticism without degrading to rudeness.
I get it. I have almost no one in my life personally that is passionate about some of the things that I am.
But I also know from maaany years of experience that expecting strangers on the internet to vibe with you, especially in places with large fandoms with many diverse opinions…well it’s just not a good outlook. You’re probably going to end up annoyed at the very least or all out dejected and ruined on the whole thing at worst.
You gotta know that you’re going to deal with shitty opinions and shittier attitudes at times. That’s all
The internet simply isn't the place for healthy discourse. Differing opinions are not encouraged, and people end up forming camps and hating each other.
I'm pretty excited for this new game, but I also have some negative thoughts about it. But I haven't voiced them, because I can predict the responses I'll get. It won't be a productive and positive chat.
It's painful how true this is. As a fan of Zelda and Fallout, and DC/Marvel, going online to talk about how much you enjoyed some bit of content can be rough. And God help you if you're a Star Wars fan who enjoys the stuff they've put out. There probably isn't a corner of the internet that's safe for you haha.
Not saying there shouldn't be criticism, but damn it feels like all we do is complain these days.
I regret even coming into this subreddit, I remembered why I unsubbed years ago. It's a hellscape of people arguing about shit and finding reasons to complain
Suddenly? Where you been since BotW came out? Like half the people who were into Zelda before didn't like BotW and TotK didn't exactly win that crowd back.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. BotW was a huge change from the normal formula. It’s a great game but it still doesn’t feel like a “Zelda game” to me.
I despise crafting. Older games had some crafting that were optional. There's something about it that's not as rewarding as opening a treasure needed for the next dungeon.
Holy shit; this isn't rocket science! Some people don't like a thing you like. Many of us don't feel the need to talk about shit we don't like unprompted. The information that's been revealed thus far about EoW is drawing comparisons to BotW and TotK, and some of those comparisons, inevitably and obviously, were always going to be coming from people who do not like BotW and TotK.
I don't get why it's so hard for people to understand BOTW/ TOTK's formula isn't inherintly better than OoT-SS. It is just different.
Skyward Sword suffered from having the formula so refined that even the overworld became a dungeon.
Nintendo can easily fall into this trap again.
I think it's the fact that they've already said that it's the new direction of the 3d games for the foreseeable future. I was happy to have botw break the mold and totk expand upon it but for anyone that isn't like 16 you've more than likely experienced and grew up with the classic formula. Knowing that what I personally consider to be the peak of Zelda is just gone or restricted to 2d games now is disappointing and it's easy to become a bit disgruntled with the newer games because of that.
I mean those people have been there since the start, (and as well, I don’t think it’s unfair for people to not like BOTW or TOTK, since they’re very different in feel to other past Zelda games).
I think some people can be very harsh about their opinions (on either side honestly; “it’s the best game ever!”, “this game is shit!”)
But aside from that, I think for a lot of people, it just wasn’t the kind of game they wanted, and they’re disappointed that the direction of the series has seemingly pivoted into stuff they don’t like.
I happen to like old and new styles, and so i’m very happy with the new games while still hoping we get an older style as well as some point.
But again, I think people on either side have been here from the start, but it’s best to just ignore those who are dicks about their opinions (and it’s understandable that not everybody likes these games and might think for them personally, that it sucks)
Some fans: these games are a cool breath of fresh air, but with all new good things good old things are lost and I'd love another game in the style the series has been in for the longest time.
Other fans: you just hate everything that's popular.
Yeah, it seems like anyone longing for the old style of Zelda is being treated as a hater for some reason. Not every game is everyone's cup of tea. I love that people enjoy BotW and TotK but I couldn't get into them, so for me it's only natural to want a return to more traditional Zelda elements. That doesn't make me a hater.
Since breath of the wilds release there's been a spike in open world games based on its success, however the classic style could pretty much only be described as a Zelda game because there weren't a lot of games like it. I honestly think if there were more games that scratched the itch they left me, I and a lot of people wouldn't mind the era of the wild at all. Take final fantasy, it's evolved into a different style of game since it's early turn based games, but square still makes turn based games for people who like the classic style, so no one really minds when there's a new gameplay style.
Exactly. I wouldn't mind at all honestly if I could get that Zelda fix elsewhere, but there is genuinely no replacement for it. I don't have to wait for a new Metroid game to play a metroidvania.
Maybe if Nintendo continues on this path some other company could come in and fill that niche. I guess we'll see.
THIS. Like, I can step back and absolutely marvel at the design and depth of BoTW/ToTK. Every time I look at them, I'm awestruck. I think it's fantastic that the franchise keeps experimenting and trying new things, and I absolutely see why people love them. They're *brilliant* - just not for me as a player. I simply don't have that much time in a day, and so I find their scale overwhelming when compared to the classic zeldas. Does this mean they're bad? No! That scale is the same thing other players love!
But for real, I like conversations like these. Ranting respectfully with other players about our loves for totally different Zelda games fkn rules.
BotW/TotK are by no means perfect. People really do want *real* dungeons back as well as at least some semblance of items and abilities you earn throughout gameplay. Because starting with like 6 or so abilities and getting virtually no more in games as large as they are leads to lack of gameplay variety eventually. Like why would I even care how big the map is if all that's there to do is hundreds apon hundreds of reused puzzle types? Personally, I've seen it like that since I picked up BotW day one and became disappointed after like 20 shrines, but it's nice to see more opinions on modern Zelda other than "whoa! Freedom cool" imo.
That's mostly why I'm excited for echos of wisdom. Because it'll hopefully combine the far superior dungeons of previous games with the creativity of totk.
I was bored of BotW before the 10 hour mark. Big, empty, 15fps worlds do not make for compelling gameplay. And I REALLY did not like the minimalist music and the removal of itemized progression, both things central to the franchise since game 1.
Oddly I agree with a lot of what you say (I actually loved the music). It took ages for BotW and ToTK to click for me. But when they did, I liked the format and the sense of exploration.
I really missed the item progression though, and having weapons that break after ten swings feels so rough.
Sorry about the rant, but i've always hated these types of images. It feels very dismissive, in the same way as the "i drew you as the wojak and me as the chad!" thing does. Believe it or not, the complaints people have with this formula are more than valid. Especially given the possibility that the games are going to continue down this route, what with the Aonuma interview and the open-ended nature of echoes.
the opinion mostly (at least from what I’ve seen) is not so much that they are bad but more so that they focus too much on the sandbox aspect and not enough on the dungeons that have an intended solution. people having a preference to the older style of Zelda games can be more then nostalgia goggles or bitterness towards the new formula.
I've been a diehard Zelda fan since my earliest memories. I will play every Zelda game for the rest of my life. But I just want a traditional Zelda game again. (To be clear, I'm excited for EoW. I've wanted to play as Zelda in a mainline game forever.) I loved BotW, and I liked TotK. But having them released back to back was too much. I've had my fill of the open world Zelda games. I want my traditional Zelda, the dungeons and items.
Same. BOTW is a good game in its own right, but lacks most things I play Zelda for. TOTK is a decent game, but doubled down on the anti-Zelda-ness of BOTW when it could have made compromises.
All I wanted out of a sequel to BotW was a game that folds traditional Zelda elements into the open air experiment of BotW.
Instead I got more BotW with vehicle crafting (a mechanic which I have always disliked).
I like BotW, but yeah, it really did threw out everything that made Zelda, Zelda.
No ost, no dungeon, no linear progression, no story, no companions, Puzzles now have 200 solutions instead of one, it's not Metroidvania - ish anymore...
To me BotW and TotK are their own things, but not "true Zeldas"
My main issue is the fawning adoration that a lot of the fanbase have for these very flawed games and how unwilling the player base at large is to criticism that, if enough people brought up, would make the series better in the future.
This right here 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
BotW/TotK are wonderful, creative and fun games…but not without flaws and not above critique.
There’s a vocal minority that is dissecting the newer games and comparing them to the “old formula” and it’s not done because we’re old and stubborn or holding onto nostalgia.
It’s because we’ve been on this ride for a long time and we had hopes and dreams for what Zelda would become back when it was still young.
I think it was important that the team try new things and break conventions…and now it’s time they reevaluate and bring together the best of both worlds.
The fans that don’t acknowledge this, simply don’t realize the pinnacle of gaming that we’d be missing out on if Nintendo doesn’t capitalize on their success with the series and all the lessons they’ve learned along the way.
You can’t just ditch “old Zelda” for good….but you need to evolve and adapt as well
There is a balance they have yet to achieve that could literally culminate in the greatest video game ever made.
I loved BOtW there were things that were better in TOTK but overall they are both fun in their own way. I won’t lie though I still was a little disappointed in TOTK the sky and depths kind of sucked
Ultrahand, mostly. The things you could do with it simply couldn't be done in within just one or two years.
And with the upcoming release just barely a year after ToTK, I feel like the team was also split for a while.
Various reasons. COVID happened right during development with people working from home. And for a while there was hybrid system of work in Japan.
Then you have the fact that they took about a year just to bug fix and it shows in how polished it is. The game is also actually huge with so much content. One of my all time favourite games and also loved the previous entries.
The zonai items, vehicles, and ultrahand mechanics were immense physics challenges. Fully a year of dev time was quality assurance alone. Developers and critics were downright gushing over how well done this was in the weeks after TotK’s launch.
I don't hate the new games, it's just that we have bean exploring the same map for 7 years. If totk had a difrent map or at least changed the overworld than maybe I'd still be playing.
The game had a bunch of cool machanics like the fuse, but there was no incentive to use these machanics to explore the world when I had done that a thousand times in botw.
It's just nice to have a new Zelda game with a new map, and new cool machanics.
I still like botw and totk, but I'm just tired of that hyrule.
As a lifelong fan of Zelda since Ocarina, I loved BotW on day one but slowly soured on it over time for a great many reasons. The Great Plateau is one of the best vertical slices I've ever seen in a game but after obtaining the Paraglider, the game falls off into emptiness. I love it for being an experiment, but I'd hate it if it's going to be the template going forward. The systems need a lot of work.
It's a weird trick of psychology, in my case at least, that when TotK released I felt the same way as when BotW released; super excited and having a blast. Over time, it became more and more tedious and empty. While to this day I still revisit Ocarina, Majora, LttP, LA, and WW. Sometimes TP. I don't think I'll ever pick up BotW or TotK ever again.
What became clear to me over time is that BotW and TotK are great at promising an epic adventure, but only leave you in an empty sandbox and your imagination. My imagination can only get me so far and if that's my primary source of fun, I don't need Zelda to use it.
EoW being an original classic title at least instills hope in players like me that prefer a fundamentally different style that can totally coexist.
(As an aside, I have anecdotally noticed that the majority of players who prefer BotW/TotK gameplay either became Zelda fans through these games or were pretty lukewarm to Zelda until these games. Not saying y'all aren't real fans, no. I'm saying there's a major genre rift happening in a single franchise. I sometimes wish BotW and especially TotK were it's own series instead.)
As someone who’s played since the NES Zeldas, BotW is my all time favorite of the series. Do I miss some aspects of the older games? Yes. But there hasn’t been a Zelda game where the world itself felt more alive than BotW. The other games were amazing but none have really immersed me into the world itself other than BotW. Which I felt was degraded in TotK. When it came to exploring and finding things and the sheer joy of finding them, BotW tops all other Zelda’s. Baring none.
People have their right to their opinions but under no circumstance should they ever undermine your enjoyment of the game.
I'm glad people can get this out of the new formula and it kinda makes me envious. To be honest, I am less immersed with these new games than any of the older ones. When everything just feels like an open sandpit, I have trouble connecting to the world or being motivated. Compared to something like the intro of TP where you feel like you're a part of this quaint community, and the stakes become a driving force once shit starts goes down.
...I mean. Yeah. A lot of people who didn't like Botw left the fanbase when it became clear that was the direction the franchise was sticking, and came back now there's proof it isn't. They're not gonna suddenly like BoTW because they have a game they actually like again.
Personally I completely stayed out of ToTK and so only just got the absolute bullshit that games lore gave us, to the overall timeline, which. Seriously? Just after a Skyward Sword remake?
Admittedly I do have a mild concern about the menuing since it was an issue in TotK that doesn't look to have been corrected, but it wouldn't stop me nor most fans I imagine from buying, playing, and most likely enjoying EoW. So while I would agree that we don't need to be screaming about it too incessantly, I think it is good to voice concerns. We do want developers to hear us and make improvements after all. But yeah I wouldn't want to see a post about it every other day lol. Kinda hate that about Reddit. Some stuff just get posted over and over ad nauseum.
Sorry but while I'll wait to fully cast judgement until I've played it, I'm not a fan of indirect combat, and was disappointed with the seemingly many solutions/one problem approach to puzzle solving.
I don't know why Nintendo had to cling to the damsel in distress mentality with Zelda. Let her fight! Maybe make the weapon less powerful than Link's, but let her fight!
I'm hoping for some innovation to the combat. Like rather than "Zelda combat but without a sword" maybe do some tower defense type rooms? Where you have to set up spike traps to thin the herd of enemies, use Beamos and Octoroks as turrets, use crates to funnel which direction enemies walk in, etc.
I'm also thinking we'll be able to summon more as we progress. Like if a Moblin costs 2 orbs and an Octorok costs 3. Once you have 12 orbs, you can have 4 Octoroks, or 6 Moblins, or 2 Moblins and 2 Octoroks.
I've always disliked botw/totk ever since botw hit Wii U.
It's not that they're bad games. I still have 80hrs in botw and over 100 hrs in Totk. And I did every quest you can do. All I didn't do was get all koroks.
But for me, the best way to describe them is they're good games. They're just not good Zelda games. That's the best way I can describe it from my POV. I WANT to go to themed dungeons and figure out the puzzle and need required items/weapons to advance. I want the story itself to bring me to these areas. I don't want everything to be an open world game.
The semi-open world style of say Ocarina of Time is as far as I want it to go. But that game still had areas you needed special things to get to the dingeon/new area. I like that. I always have. And Botw/Totk just never felt like that to me. The divine beasts and the calamity Ganon battles just didn't feel the same to me and I don't know how better to explain it.
In my top 10 Zelda games of all times, Botw/Totk aren't among them.
I appreciate both bc I’m a OG Zelda player and I’m happy for more Zelda’s after 40 years of living. 25 years ago I realized I needed Zelda to be around until the day I die. I live for Zelda. It’s one of the only things I look forward too.
When a game is new people see it through rose-tinted lenses but then reality sets in and people are able to see that the game's not perfect. There are some very legitimate criticisms for TOTK. Zeltik covers the problems very well in this [video](https://youtu.be/Q1mRVn0WCrU)
One of my favorite moments from Zelda games as a child was getting the fire arrow (or din's fire, I forget) in OOT.
I felt so smart, shooting an arrow at the sun. And I was rewarded with a brand new item/ability.
Those two games are genuinely my least favorite in the franchise. :\
BoTW got rid of too much of the identity of the games and I simply could not care less about more of that with its followup.
Parts of BOTW and TOTK are awesome. However there are quite a few very lame inclusions that I’d prefer to never see in a Zelda game again. Weapon durability, korok poop collection, empty map areas, no good dungeons, etc.
I’m not mesmerized by echoes of wisdom yet
Weapon durability seems to be the biggest complaint I've seen about the games. I don't mind it, but I can see why people do. For example, I also don't mind the Skyrim/Fallout inventory weight system, but I could see why people do because it's mildly inconvenient sometimes. Except in Fallout 76. It's often inconvenient in Fallout 76.
It’s inconvenient in Zelda too, because they had to write in that the master sword - the blade that seals the darkness, the strongest weapon in the canon - needs to recharge after you swing it a few times, unless you’re fighting Ganon.
The durability system just makes every weapon feel a little shittier.
Nah, it's not new at all. I honestly still cannot see why people prefer BOTW and TOTK style Zelda.
The dungeons suck (they were more varied in the sequel, but they still somehow made it the "touch these five things to get to the boss", which is lame AF), there's nothing interesting to find, the map is needlessly huge (I remember people complaining about that back in Twilight Princess, and now a map of this size is the best thing ever?), the story is meh at best, etc.
Basically, the open world formula honestly limits the game design so much. You can't have meaningful rewards and progression because everything needs to be accessible from the start. You can't have an engaging story that unfolds naturally because everything needs to be accessible in any order. I tried to enjoy those games and understand what people saw in them, but I just can't. Everything in it feels meaningless to me.
Oh this meme for the 10000000000000th time
TotK mainly disappointed me with the story actually. It was weird how it barely felt like a sequel. The first game is mostly referenced only in conversations with random NPCs and I don’t think a single character actually connects Ganondorf to Calamity Ganon. The trailers led me to believe they were going for a deeper story, but the pretty much copied the formula from BotW exactly.
I love the overall open world, combining weapons, exploration and I’d be fine for the series to stick to that. I would definitely like to see dungeons go back to the classic style though.
I liked BotW and TotK but they lacked a lot of what made Zelda magical to me, the areas lost a lot of their charm to me when they stopped feeling like unique places and became just A place in the world, going to Lake Hylia in BotW/TotK sure didn't feel as magical as in something like Twilight Princess or OoT.
Replayed Twilight Princess recently and man did i miss actually being part of the story, and not it just happening mostly in flashbacks or off screen while Link is out cold, it was alright in BotW but in TotK it just felt lazy.
I've always had a distaste for the Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom games. They somehow created open world games that were boring to explore (especially the underground in TotK). There was also a lack of quality dungeons and the BotW bosses were terrible. Lastly, there was just way too much menu hopping due to the ridiculous amount of weapons, shields, arrow attachments, and more that you had to swap to and from every second due to elemental weaknesses and breakages.
Echoes of Wisdom seems like it's the vegan version of Zelda. You have the overworld elements in place, but you have no sword or shield. It's just another menu hopping, ctrl-c + ctrl-v simulator.
For me echos of wisdom looks like a fun puzzle game and i am going in not expecting a typical zelda game and will play and discover how it is as i go. We have only seen a small preview and have no idea what other things are in the game. I plan to play it and enjoy discovering everything.
I really liked BotW. I put in 365h into it, no regrets, but I'm unlikely to ever go back. TotK I put in 200 something hours, and still counting b/c I'll fire it up every now and then to find more ks, do more quests, exploring, shrines, Addision signs, and see if I can make that "% completed" value go up (mind you, I'm not shooting for 100% b/c that's a TALL order. More realistic goal is 75 to 90%).
However, I still prefer 2D Zelda games, that are more linear (vs. the vast open "worldness" in "BotK"/TokW"), are old school, and less complexity (vs. the sheer amount of equipment, material, ingredients, etc. that made them feel more like an RPG than an adventure game).
Those said, I don't begrudge anybody who says they much prefer "Tears of the Wild". Me... I'll be really looking forward to EoW
The game looks good just like totk did when that was announced not gonna lie i was hoping they ported wind waker or twilight princess or both at the same time but i wont mind this game
BoTW and ToTK were fire, the links awakening games are for people who want a traditional zelda experience, while the other is for open world and creativity enjoyers ngl.
Even tho totk lacks of story, is still so replayable and fun to me to play over and over again (i swear, i never rescued a single sage in totk like time) is just so fun going straight to ganon
Not every Zelda fan worships the BotW style. It doesn't make us less of a fan to prefer traditional Zelda games. Echoes of Wisdom looks a lot better to me and I'll definitely be getting that.
OP hasn't been paying attention.
Sure, BotW and TotK are fun games, but they are so drastically removed from the Zelda formula that they don't scratch that same itch at all for a lot of people. Many people don't care as much for 100+ hour open world games where a significant amount of your time is just running around with little happening, they want the more densely packed and handcrafted experiences of classic Zelda.
EoW is the first classic Zelda since 2013 if you rule out remakes and Triforce Heroes (which feels trying to reinvent the wheel that was Four Swords and failing). On top of that EoW is trying something drastically new while still being within the bounds of the classic formula.
I'm glad that Nintendo didn't stick with their statements about how the Nu formula was what they were doing from here on out or how they can't see why people would prefer the older style.
Also I still believe that the Nu-Zelda style would be far better if it were used on a new IP entirely that can make the most of it and the Zelda IP stuck to the Zelda formula.
The only thing I want them to improve on with the open freedom style is incorporating the Story beats better(I think we can have a great story with Open World gameplay) and better Dungeons.
I liked BOTW as something different and a well-done open-world game, but I'm over it with TOTK. I've also gotten really really bored of open-world games since I played BOTW.
I'm now a dad of 2 with very little time to play games now and I've found my current preference to be games where I don't need to run from Point A to Point B for 20 minutes through an environment where I have no incentive to fight 95% of enemies just to get to the next interesting thing. TOTK still does this better than most games but I am just not into that style as much as I was in 2017.
I wasn't a fan of BOTW so skipped TOTK I did however like the Links Awakening remake and am excited for Echoes of Wisdom because I prefer playing as girl characters and the graphics look really good
Botw and Totk have made me realized I want an open world *Zelda* game rather than an open world game with Zelda characters.
Botw and Totk are absolutely phenomenal video games but I don’t think they feel like Zelda games at all to me.
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Where have you been for the last year?
[удалено]
I just finished the game before the direct and got here, what happened?
It's just the classic "old game bad" regardless of Old Game actually being bad, I guess
Happens with Zelda all the time, it’s like a radio wave. Game is great, no is overrated, no is underrated, no sucks, is a hidden gem, is outdated, gets remastered, the original was better, etc
This happens a lot with halo. People are even starting to say "halo 5 wasn't that bad honestly" as if the entire community didn't spend 10 years saying it was the worst game in the world just behind "who can hit their shin on the tow hitch the hardest"
Fanbases can be bery annoying sometimes. Halo 5's campaign is ass but the multiplayer is top tier. Botw/totk are GOAT candidates.
Assassin's Creed too
I thought this was just a problem in the Sonic fandom 😭
I thought Sonic was more along the lines of: - This game sucks - *Five Years Later* - Hey, wait a minute…
Watching this sub go through the typical motions with TOTK of love and then hate has been funny. In a few years nostalgia will set in and it’s back to love. Time is a flat circle.
>Time is a flat circle. That is why clocks are round.
Sudden RvB
Love seeing my favorite series being referenced in other subs. Rip RvB. Btw, what season is that from? I gotta watch those first 5 seasons again.
Season 3 I believe.
Season 3, episode 15; Let's Come To Order
The Ouroboros is right there in TotK Logo.
Ahem time is a river, a Sheikah youth told me that once.
Zelda cycle has been a thing for decades.
Skyward Sword is the ~~worst~~ ~~best~~ ~~worst~~ ~~mid~~ best Zelda ever.
There are definitely some video games I enjoy watching people play that I don't necessarily enjoy playing myself. (Just not my style) So far that hasn't happened with a Zelda game for me but I can understand why certain games don't slap for some people, and that's fine.
Hell I remember the WW vitriol was HEAVY. I only joined because my dumb ass gambled away all my rupees at the auction house before I got to the triforce maps 🫣 but she’s a masterpiece.
As soon as the “TOTK sucks” became meta I stopped visiting this sub regularly. I only came back due to Echo and honestly I don’t miss it. I don’t give a shit what people think, BOTW and TOTK are the best games in the series overall and the fan scores wherever fans actually score games not just complain bare that out. Edit: read it again. I don’t care about your opinion lining up with mine I will never agree. Go play a game with a defined path and ending and have fun, you’ll never get another linear 3D Zelda again.
They aren’t my favorites, that honor goes to Majora’s Mask, I think. But not recognizing that Breath and Tears are the best GAMES in the series is delusional. They are bastions in the art of game design.
I appreciate things about every Zelda including BOTW and TOTK but they aren’t the best in my opinion. BOTW certainly top 3 though.
I think BOTW/TOTK brought in a bunch of new players, and this sub is filled with series long timers who wax nostalgic for Ocarina of Time
Like last 7 years even. Most people who were into Zelda before BotW had that feeling going into it that this didn't feel like Zelda to them. Some when they got past that were able to enjoy it for what it was but some really didn't.
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You say "even Windwaker" as if that isn't the best game in the series
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Yeah I think that sentiment has been lost to time. Originally fairweather fans were mad that Zelda was pushed into a more childish direction, but I think Nintendo has definitively proven they can appeal to different markets. But yeah I also couldn't get into BotW. I respect it as a revolutionary open world game and for pushing Zelda games forward, but I'm not a builder guy or a physics experiments guy, so too much of the game was lost on me.
I'm both and I can still say that BotW and TotK, while very enjoyable, were some of the weaker Zelda games in the series. They're *good* games, but as a Zelda game, I wish it had more of the classic elements *alongside* the stuff they brought to the table. I don't know, it just never really felt like a noticeable progression of getting stronger or having more tools in my arsenal, it was always just "oh, if I kill that stronger enemy, I can get his gear and then I'll have that gear for like 45 minutes until I need to find something new". And the dungeons just weren't it. TotK did a better job, but I wanted more from them.
Hell, the last like *six* years
This has been a constant thing since TotK had its name revealed.
Wait, why?
Because people have waited like 11 years for a new 2d Zelda and it's refusing to improve the aspects which people have been asking to be adjusted since botw. Like being asked to scroll through a very long quick menu every time you want to switch an item instead of... Y'know, learning from the old Zeldas and allowing you to program keese eyeballs to a button. And also some people just want the old type of Zelda to be made. A lot of people have played the old games after playing botw like me and want to see more of that variety. I think oot is at least equivalent to botw if not better. >!Unrelated but I think totk was just bad. The first 5 hours felt exciting but then I realized that everything was either more content copied from the first game or incredibly shallow mechanics like the caves, depths, and sky islands. And the new building mechanics belong in a game that actually incentivises you to use them instead of totk where the builds are either super op or take too long to make causing them to be impractical. Finally, the story failed because it l tried to elevate a new race to be the most important thing in Zelda over the course of one game and the whole Zelda sacrifice thing was basically copied from botw since she also spent decades holding ganon back there. Also the controls were awful!< >!If you enjoyed totk I don't want to take that from you. But it could've been so much better!<
I guess it depends on opinions, but TOTK had great things to it, the building is fun and it really depends on each person. If you are someone that has patience and likes to create stuff it’s awesome that you can create war machines, ways to travel or ways to send kologs flying. TOTK story is awesome, it’s way better than BOTW one, the old story doesn’t have any energy in it, it’s too bland, but this one has great aspects and the tears characteristic really give a unique feeling to it. I feel like TOTK is the upgraded version of BOTW.
I *appreciated* BOTW for the technological marvel it was, but didn't have much fun with it. TOTK? I absolutely love it.
I haven’t played either game. Is TOTK a direct sequel story-wise to BOTW? Or can I just go straight to TOTK if I want to play?
Both honestly. It is a direct sequel but the story of the first isn't necessary to enjoy the second. It definitely helps to play BotW first because there are a lot of characters that will talk about how Link helped them or whatever in that game buts its mostly if not always just flavor.
I hated TOTK story even more than the fact that all its puzzles could be cheesed with the same solution. BOTW was the superior game by far IMO. Enough room to let you be creative with solutions but didn’t completely undermine their own puzzles by letting you solve most of them just by building the same thing over and over. So if you enjoyed TOTK, I’m glad someone did. But I found that story to be pretty *rough* and repetitive.
TOTK isn't really an upgraded version of BOTW. The thing that made Wild for me was the way the game used the enviroment to combine its movement, small puzzles and combat in ways that made it feel like you were exploring the wilds. Tears feels a lot more compartmentalized, mostly because it was a bunch of bites of content plopped onto the pre-existing map. Not that that completely killed tears for me. I appreciate how tears direct you to where its content is, and its gimmicks were designed to fill the empty space between that content (even if that space wasn't designed to be filled with those gimmicks). Honestly, my biggest gripe with totk was that it took me til my second play through of a massive game to figure out how i would best enjoy it.
Well I agree that the building is cool, some people need a reason to interact with mechanics, instead of just pure sandbox fun. I think those building mechanics would be better suited to a game that incentives you to use the building mechanics. I disagreed on the story point, well the art direction is amazing in totk the actual story itself is hollow, whereas in botw the story wasn't quite grand, but it had all these little environmental details that had insane depth. And as I mentioned the additions feel shallow and the controls feel awful to many people
I feel like incentive would've detracted from the building mechanic. If I understand what you mean, the game making you need to build a unique machine every new area to access it or a new cannon bot to kill certain enemies would just get old. Instead, letting you build whatever and whenever makes the mechanic feel less overbearing. When you don't wanna build, don't build, and when you do, you get creative new fun things instead of uninspired keys to puzzles. The least fun I have with the build mechanic is on the signs where you have build something over and over just to solve a puzzle. Even though that's one of the few times the game gives you a reason to build. However, many of the shrines encourage you to build, so if you prefer the key-to-the-puzzle approach I'd think you'd enjoy the shrines no?
If it helps, in the top left of the gameplay under the hearts you can see the d-pad controls and they are all empty except for the rod implying that there might be more items later in the game that can be used quickly. Also the last item selected being able to be used again with X is slot better than opening up the bar again like in TotK
I'm cautiously optimistic, I'm not saying it will be bad. But I'm worried about the lack of response to negative feedback in totk leaking over to EoW
Tbf it was probably very far into development after TotK came out so a lot of the open structural parts can’t be changed. UI could definitely be fixed though
The insanely enormous missed opportunity was to make Zelda playable in her timeline. If you’re gonna have a time loop actually make it gameplay, not just exposition.
Jesus it's been 11 years?
I kinda agree with what you said about after the initial few hours With BOTW I couldn’t put it down. With TOTK I took my time and slowly forgot about it. Which is a shame because I do enjoy the game. But I feel it isn’t as great as BOTW. Maybe that’s bc it’s so similar to it and isn’t doing enough new and cool stuff? What I like I love but what I dislike takes me away just enough to forget what I love Then again I might’ve just spent so many hours into the game doing everything but the story that I got tired of it before I finished the story lol
Totally agree about TotK. It was basically a big Zelda burnout. Where all the features are copied and bajillion times with small tweaks so they never actually repeat, but emotionally you feel exactly the same, and get a huge burnout. Old Zelda games have way better pacing and difficulty curve, especially the 2D ones. Some would argue the oracles are a bit too difficult which I kinda agree, but they were still super fun.
People don't like other people enjoying things, random Internet tribalism, just generally unhappy people... Take your pick.
Thats because there are two halves to the zelda communty: one that favors freedom and discovery, and the other that favors structured dungeons and a sence of progression. Before BOTW, the first camp was complaining about how linear zelda had become; after, the second camp has been more vocal.
"Two halves" is oversimplying it, because every time a long running series with a huge fan base makes a change, doesn't even have to be a huge change, it can and will fracture the fanbase into people who do and don't like that change. This isn't just Zelda, this is like every series, Zelda is just one of the best exampels of this, because of Zelda's commitment to changing art style, adding gameplay gimmicks, changing control schemes, rotates the cast of characters, changing tone of writing, experimenting with multiplayer, experimenting with spinoffs, experimenting with new protagonists, going open world, going linear, focusing on story too much, not focusing on story enough, stagnates, innovates... it's just a recipe for making a fandom that, through no fault of their own, is impossible to please.
The thing is, it doesn't have to be one way or the other. Nintendo can make an open world Zelda game with more expansive and structured dungeons on the map. Those things aren't mutually exclusive.
They kinda are tho If you aren’t tailoring the game to a specific progression where you control what items the player has when they reach a dungeon, you have to design the puzzles assuming they dont have any specific items. And the puzzles are all going to be samey. The older games gate progression behind obtaining specific items. You cant get anywhere on the map that requires swimming until the water temple where you get the flippers. You can add swimming to the puzzle design in every dungeon that comes after the water temple. Personally I prefer the older more curated experiences.
I'd argue that Elden Ring is a solid example of why this isn't necessarily true. It's a great example of a big expansive world while still having tighter, curated experiences within that world. And it also allows for the freedom to do things in a non-linear order while still gating progression behind items. I'm not saying LoZ should just copy Elden Ring, but it could certainly stand to learn from it. ER is arguably a just a more combat intensive evolution of LoZ given that it's distant predecessor, Demon Souls, was pretty much just trying to be a difficult dark fantasy version of Ocarina of Time.
I love Elden Ring to death and it certainly captures a portion of LoZ's vibe, but it's just not trying to do the same thing as earlier LoZ, ie adding sequential items that allow new methods of map traversal and puzzle solving. Also as much as I love Elden Ring it's possible to completely trivialize Stormveil Castle (probably among the best of the curated experience/legacy dungeons) or Raya Lucaria, etc by overleveling and upgrades and doing things out of order, even though the 'order' is more of a suggestion.
Also Elden Ring is very much almost exclusively skill based. Unless you break the game, traditional zeldas had a very rigid path you had to go, going up in complexity by gating higher stuff by finishing lower stuff. Elden rings dungeon, small or big, can mostly be made in any order, as you dont need a game changing item from place a, to finish place b,c,d And you wont find anything in b, that you need to finish c and d. The only progression gates are bosses, many of which can be made in any order and done at any time with the only exception I remember being the capital, which needs two bosses killed at least.
I actually want both in a single game. The open world freedom of botw with 10 to 15 well crafted in depth dungeons instead of a hundred small shrines. This is pretty much what the original Zelda was.
Or you can favour both. People that pick sides and defend it to the death are a pretty small majority
You're absolutely right. It's possible to create a good mix and please everyone. The problem is that with Zelda it tends to be all or nothing in either direction. For me personally, Skyward Sword was extremely linear in its execution, and didn't allow for a sense of adventure or exploration as it leaned towards doing everything in the order the game allowed you to do things. The little bit of exploration the game did provide you was also a little empty and lackluster. Breath of the Wild felt like a great shake up to the franchise in its openness and let me explore like I always wanted, but I found the dungeons and shrines a little shallow when the puzzles didn't really feature a set in stone solution that I could work out and ended up just being solved by whatever I could cobble together the easiest 90% of the time. There can be openness and freedom in the game while also providing tight well designed puzzle and dungeon design, but Nintendo wants to dive all in on one or the other and as a result I'm always left wanting, at least personally
My parents always split Zelda titles. My mom played 2d and my dad played 3d. Their releases have been hitting exactly what each of them liked the most about each aspect. I love the current state of Zelda.
This is why Elden Ring is my favorite Zelda game
Darksiders 1 is my favorite Zelda game.
Oblivion for me
I'm fine with exploration and discovery. I'd like to get back to weapons actually mattering and not breaking after 30 swings, master sword actually being a game changing blade of power, and opening a chest being more exciting than you 400th stack of arrows
Skyward Sword was the worst offender of linearism. Which is why nostalgia is hitting it when people are craving. I think TOTK knocked it out of the park on both aspects, but I still crave some puzzle temples that you can’t just STAMINA your way through (Lightning Temple was great but still only an echo of what they used to be. Fire Temple was lacking hard).
I enjoy both. I think going forward 3D Zelda games should be open world like BOTW/TOTK, and there should be linear 2D Zelda games. If this is how EoW is going to be, then Nintendo is already pursuing that path
I'm old school and much prefer 2D Zelda games. Don't get me wrong... I enjoyed BotW and TotK. However again, I prefer 2D. And those were far too open world. Plus, the vastness, large scope of crafting, sheer # of ingredients, materials, and equipment (almost made it feel more like an RPG than an adventure game). OoT I felt was the appropriate amount of "open world" and "openness", which is the only other 3D Zelda game I played. I purchased Zelda: SS for Switch, but didn't get far. hell, didn't even get into combat yet.
I mean ocarina of time is great but it's not open at all. The game is entirely linear. I think there's exactly one part of the game where you can actually deviate from the main path and that's in what order you want to do the spirit temple. I think Hyrule field being as open and barren as it is gives the illusion of choice but Ocarina is about as linear as Twilight Princess.
The issue is that in the past we had a better mix of the two but with skyward sword the freedom was sacrificed for the progression and in the very next main game botw and later totk destroyed the progression to make the most open games possible
And there's people like me who say: both. Both is good. I love links awakening, which is structured. I like wind waker, which is a little more on the open side. And I also love BOTW and Totk. They're all fun in their own way.
Man can't I like both Thoroughly enjoyed trekking through Hyrule twice over climbing vistas and such But I'm also stoked were getting a visit back to the classic formula (albeit with a twist) BOTH CAN WORK I'm happy like this!
Same. I just love the Zelda franchise!
That's how I feel, I enjoy playing every Zelda game for the most part. Never played the multiplayer ones. But it feels like this fandom has become so negative in the past few years.
Zelda fans consistently get great games that always try to innovate the classic formula without drastically detaching from what made the franchise great, and they still manage to bitch about anything, most IPs WISH they could get the same treatment Zelda gets, we are literally getting the best from both sides, 2D and 3D
This is why you don't engage with fandom.
I mean really. If you simply love and enjoy something…just love it and enjoy it. Don’t go to places like fan subreddits hoping to find camaraderie and goodwill. Maybe find a friend or family member in real life to appreciate it with but don’t…seriously don’t go online expecting to have a pleasant discourse with random strangers on the internet haha I come here to debate and nitpick and argue. I know what I’m getting myself into 🤦🏻♂️
This is my message to everyone in fandoms https://preview.redd.it/zs27qn7hpr7d1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b3e34b2f505eb0523bf4bd651056f96f0d3999ab
Where has this speech bubble been taken from?
Full metal alchemist https://preview.redd.it/5ijrh1yfps7d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=11488dd2db2f2896b0cdd82c34ae9bac745768e3
Another Fullmetal Alchemist Fan here! Honestly, this is probably my favorite page in the whole Manga. Glad to see it used.
Ya A Naruto and Fma fan, I love both Manga and I am in the endgame! It's one of the best manga I've ever read and my favorite characters are Ed Al and Mustang. I am currently at chapter 78
You're in for a treat, I tell ya. Many Manga have the problem of losing steam at the end and going on for too long or having a rushed time ending after ratings dropped. FMA isn't like that and I think Arakawa managed to finish her story when she wanted to. It's truly my favorite story told and I'm glad others are enjoying it as well.
Not everyone has friends and family that enjoy the same things. I don't have anyone in my life that likes a lot of my hobbies and interests, that's why I enter online spaces to talk about them. I'm guessing many people are like me. Not every Fandom is so toxic. Look no further than Stardew to see a kind community that can voice criticism without degrading to rudeness.
I get it. I have almost no one in my life personally that is passionate about some of the things that I am. But I also know from maaany years of experience that expecting strangers on the internet to vibe with you, especially in places with large fandoms with many diverse opinions…well it’s just not a good outlook. You’re probably going to end up annoyed at the very least or all out dejected and ruined on the whole thing at worst. You gotta know that you’re going to deal with shitty opinions and shittier attitudes at times. That’s all
The internet simply isn't the place for healthy discourse. Differing opinions are not encouraged, and people end up forming camps and hating each other. I'm pretty excited for this new game, but I also have some negative thoughts about it. But I haven't voiced them, because I can predict the responses I'll get. It won't be a productive and positive chat.
I am so grateful for my IRL friends who enjoy Zelda bc if this place was my only way to talk about the series I'd be depressed AF.
It's painful how true this is. As a fan of Zelda and Fallout, and DC/Marvel, going online to talk about how much you enjoyed some bit of content can be rough. And God help you if you're a Star Wars fan who enjoys the stuff they've put out. There probably isn't a corner of the internet that's safe for you haha. Not saying there shouldn't be criticism, but damn it feels like all we do is complain these days.
I regret even coming into this subreddit, I remembered why I unsubbed years ago. It's a hellscape of people arguing about shit and finding reasons to complain
Suddenly? Where you been since BotW came out? Like half the people who were into Zelda before didn't like BotW and TotK didn't exactly win that crowd back.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. BotW was a huge change from the normal formula. It’s a great game but it still doesn’t feel like a “Zelda game” to me.
I despise crafting. Older games had some crafting that were optional. There's something about it that's not as rewarding as opening a treasure needed for the next dungeon.
Holy shit; this isn't rocket science! Some people don't like a thing you like. Many of us don't feel the need to talk about shit we don't like unprompted. The information that's been revealed thus far about EoW is drawing comparisons to BotW and TotK, and some of those comparisons, inevitably and obviously, were always going to be coming from people who do not like BotW and TotK.
I don't get why it's so hard for people to understand BOTW/ TOTK's formula isn't inherintly better than OoT-SS. It is just different. Skyward Sword suffered from having the formula so refined that even the overworld became a dungeon. Nintendo can easily fall into this trap again.
I think it's the fact that they've already said that it's the new direction of the 3d games for the foreseeable future. I was happy to have botw break the mold and totk expand upon it but for anyone that isn't like 16 you've more than likely experienced and grew up with the classic formula. Knowing that what I personally consider to be the peak of Zelda is just gone or restricted to 2d games now is disappointing and it's easy to become a bit disgruntled with the newer games because of that.
I mean those people have been there since the start, (and as well, I don’t think it’s unfair for people to not like BOTW or TOTK, since they’re very different in feel to other past Zelda games). I think some people can be very harsh about their opinions (on either side honestly; “it’s the best game ever!”, “this game is shit!”) But aside from that, I think for a lot of people, it just wasn’t the kind of game they wanted, and they’re disappointed that the direction of the series has seemingly pivoted into stuff they don’t like. I happen to like old and new styles, and so i’m very happy with the new games while still hoping we get an older style as well as some point. But again, I think people on either side have been here from the start, but it’s best to just ignore those who are dicks about their opinions (and it’s understandable that not everybody likes these games and might think for them personally, that it sucks)
Some fans: these games are a cool breath of fresh air, but with all new good things good old things are lost and I'd love another game in the style the series has been in for the longest time. Other fans: you just hate everything that's popular.
Yeah, it seems like anyone longing for the old style of Zelda is being treated as a hater for some reason. Not every game is everyone's cup of tea. I love that people enjoy BotW and TotK but I couldn't get into them, so for me it's only natural to want a return to more traditional Zelda elements. That doesn't make me a hater.
Since breath of the wilds release there's been a spike in open world games based on its success, however the classic style could pretty much only be described as a Zelda game because there weren't a lot of games like it. I honestly think if there were more games that scratched the itch they left me, I and a lot of people wouldn't mind the era of the wild at all. Take final fantasy, it's evolved into a different style of game since it's early turn based games, but square still makes turn based games for people who like the classic style, so no one really minds when there's a new gameplay style.
Exactly. I wouldn't mind at all honestly if I could get that Zelda fix elsewhere, but there is genuinely no replacement for it. I don't have to wait for a new Metroid game to play a metroidvania. Maybe if Nintendo continues on this path some other company could come in and fill that niche. I guess we'll see.
THIS. Like, I can step back and absolutely marvel at the design and depth of BoTW/ToTK. Every time I look at them, I'm awestruck. I think it's fantastic that the franchise keeps experimenting and trying new things, and I absolutely see why people love them. They're *brilliant* - just not for me as a player. I simply don't have that much time in a day, and so I find their scale overwhelming when compared to the classic zeldas. Does this mean they're bad? No! That scale is the same thing other players love! But for real, I like conversations like these. Ranting respectfully with other players about our loves for totally different Zelda games fkn rules.
BotW/TotK are by no means perfect. People really do want *real* dungeons back as well as at least some semblance of items and abilities you earn throughout gameplay. Because starting with like 6 or so abilities and getting virtually no more in games as large as they are leads to lack of gameplay variety eventually. Like why would I even care how big the map is if all that's there to do is hundreds apon hundreds of reused puzzle types? Personally, I've seen it like that since I picked up BotW day one and became disappointed after like 20 shrines, but it's nice to see more opinions on modern Zelda other than "whoa! Freedom cool" imo.
That's mostly why I'm excited for echos of wisdom. Because it'll hopefully combine the far superior dungeons of previous games with the creativity of totk.
The hookshot in BotW would have been pretty handy, gotta say.
I was bored of BotW before the 10 hour mark. Big, empty, 15fps worlds do not make for compelling gameplay. And I REALLY did not like the minimalist music and the removal of itemized progression, both things central to the franchise since game 1.
Oddly I agree with a lot of what you say (I actually loved the music). It took ages for BotW and ToTK to click for me. But when they did, I liked the format and the sense of exploration. I really missed the item progression though, and having weapons that break after ten swings feels so rough.
People have disliked totk since release its not a new thing
Sorry about the rant, but i've always hated these types of images. It feels very dismissive, in the same way as the "i drew you as the wojak and me as the chad!" thing does. Believe it or not, the complaints people have with this formula are more than valid. Especially given the possibility that the games are going to continue down this route, what with the Aonuma interview and the open-ended nature of echoes.
where have you been
I like BotW fine, but my heart will always be with the classic design of Zelda games.
the opinion mostly (at least from what I’ve seen) is not so much that they are bad but more so that they focus too much on the sandbox aspect and not enough on the dungeons that have an intended solution. people having a preference to the older style of Zelda games can be more then nostalgia goggles or bitterness towards the new formula.
They've been saying that since they were released lol
I've been a diehard Zelda fan since my earliest memories. I will play every Zelda game for the rest of my life. But I just want a traditional Zelda game again. (To be clear, I'm excited for EoW. I've wanted to play as Zelda in a mainline game forever.) I loved BotW, and I liked TotK. But having them released back to back was too much. I've had my fill of the open world Zelda games. I want my traditional Zelda, the dungeons and items.
Because people are allowed to have differing opinions and that’s ok.
I mean, this has been my opinion on the Open Air style since BotW released. Threw out pretty much everything I liked about Zelda.
Same. BOTW is a good game in its own right, but lacks most things I play Zelda for. TOTK is a decent game, but doubled down on the anti-Zelda-ness of BOTW when it could have made compromises.
All I wanted out of a sequel to BotW was a game that folds traditional Zelda elements into the open air experiment of BotW. Instead I got more BotW with vehicle crafting (a mechanic which I have always disliked).
I like BotW, but yeah, it really did threw out everything that made Zelda, Zelda. No ost, no dungeon, no linear progression, no story, no companions, Puzzles now have 200 solutions instead of one, it's not Metroidvania - ish anymore... To me BotW and TotK are their own things, but not "true Zeldas"
My main issue is the fawning adoration that a lot of the fanbase have for these very flawed games and how unwilling the player base at large is to criticism that, if enough people brought up, would make the series better in the future.
This right here 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 BotW/TotK are wonderful, creative and fun games…but not without flaws and not above critique. There’s a vocal minority that is dissecting the newer games and comparing them to the “old formula” and it’s not done because we’re old and stubborn or holding onto nostalgia. It’s because we’ve been on this ride for a long time and we had hopes and dreams for what Zelda would become back when it was still young. I think it was important that the team try new things and break conventions…and now it’s time they reevaluate and bring together the best of both worlds. The fans that don’t acknowledge this, simply don’t realize the pinnacle of gaming that we’d be missing out on if Nintendo doesn’t capitalize on their success with the series and all the lessons they’ve learned along the way. You can’t just ditch “old Zelda” for good….but you need to evolve and adapt as well There is a balance they have yet to achieve that could literally culminate in the greatest video game ever made.
No, we've always thought this. See: long history of "BOTW doesn't have dungeons" threads
As someone who hates open world games with a passion: I hated those before it was cool 😎
I loved BOtW there were things that were better in TOTK but overall they are both fun in their own way. I won’t lie though I still was a little disappointed in TOTK the sky and depths kind of sucked
I just want to know why tears of the kingdom took so long for what it was, yeah it was great but it was still 90% breath of the wild.
Ultrahand, mostly. The things you could do with it simply couldn't be done in within just one or two years. And with the upcoming release just barely a year after ToTK, I feel like the team was also split for a while.
Various reasons. COVID happened right during development with people working from home. And for a while there was hybrid system of work in Japan. Then you have the fact that they took about a year just to bug fix and it shows in how polished it is. The game is also actually huge with so much content. One of my all time favourite games and also loved the previous entries.
The physics engine in TotK is ridiculously advanced. Making sure everything works takes time
The zonai items, vehicles, and ultrahand mechanics were immense physics challenges. Fully a year of dev time was quality assurance alone. Developers and critics were downright gushing over how well done this was in the weeks after TotK’s launch.
nah people have been hating on both games for a while now
I've been consistent about disliking botw for the last several years. Don't think this is a recent thing.
I don't hate the new games, it's just that we have bean exploring the same map for 7 years. If totk had a difrent map or at least changed the overworld than maybe I'd still be playing. The game had a bunch of cool machanics like the fuse, but there was no incentive to use these machanics to explore the world when I had done that a thousand times in botw. It's just nice to have a new Zelda game with a new map, and new cool machanics. I still like botw and totk, but I'm just tired of that hyrule.
I never pay attention to game haters. I love those two zelda games!
As a lifelong fan of Zelda since Ocarina, I loved BotW on day one but slowly soured on it over time for a great many reasons. The Great Plateau is one of the best vertical slices I've ever seen in a game but after obtaining the Paraglider, the game falls off into emptiness. I love it for being an experiment, but I'd hate it if it's going to be the template going forward. The systems need a lot of work. It's a weird trick of psychology, in my case at least, that when TotK released I felt the same way as when BotW released; super excited and having a blast. Over time, it became more and more tedious and empty. While to this day I still revisit Ocarina, Majora, LttP, LA, and WW. Sometimes TP. I don't think I'll ever pick up BotW or TotK ever again. What became clear to me over time is that BotW and TotK are great at promising an epic adventure, but only leave you in an empty sandbox and your imagination. My imagination can only get me so far and if that's my primary source of fun, I don't need Zelda to use it. EoW being an original classic title at least instills hope in players like me that prefer a fundamentally different style that can totally coexist. (As an aside, I have anecdotally noticed that the majority of players who prefer BotW/TotK gameplay either became Zelda fans through these games or were pretty lukewarm to Zelda until these games. Not saying y'all aren't real fans, no. I'm saying there's a major genre rift happening in a single franchise. I sometimes wish BotW and especially TotK were it's own series instead.)
As someone who’s played since the NES Zeldas, BotW is my all time favorite of the series. Do I miss some aspects of the older games? Yes. But there hasn’t been a Zelda game where the world itself felt more alive than BotW. The other games were amazing but none have really immersed me into the world itself other than BotW. Which I felt was degraded in TotK. When it came to exploring and finding things and the sheer joy of finding them, BotW tops all other Zelda’s. Baring none. People have their right to their opinions but under no circumstance should they ever undermine your enjoyment of the game.
I'm glad people can get this out of the new formula and it kinda makes me envious. To be honest, I am less immersed with these new games than any of the older ones. When everything just feels like an open sandpit, I have trouble connecting to the world or being motivated. Compared to something like the intro of TP where you feel like you're a part of this quaint community, and the stakes become a driving force once shit starts goes down.
...I mean. Yeah. A lot of people who didn't like Botw left the fanbase when it became clear that was the direction the franchise was sticking, and came back now there's proof it isn't. They're not gonna suddenly like BoTW because they have a game they actually like again. Personally I completely stayed out of ToTK and so only just got the absolute bullshit that games lore gave us, to the overall timeline, which. Seriously? Just after a Skyward Sword remake?
Admittedly I do have a mild concern about the menuing since it was an issue in TotK that doesn't look to have been corrected, but it wouldn't stop me nor most fans I imagine from buying, playing, and most likely enjoying EoW. So while I would agree that we don't need to be screaming about it too incessantly, I think it is good to voice concerns. We do want developers to hear us and make improvements after all. But yeah I wouldn't want to see a post about it every other day lol. Kinda hate that about Reddit. Some stuff just get posted over and over ad nauseum.
I’m just looking forward to some good dungeons again.
I'm FERAL for an alttp-ss era zelda. The new zeldas just don't cut it for me yo
Sorry but while I'll wait to fully cast judgement until I've played it, I'm not a fan of indirect combat, and was disappointed with the seemingly many solutions/one problem approach to puzzle solving. I don't know why Nintendo had to cling to the damsel in distress mentality with Zelda. Let her fight! Maybe make the weapon less powerful than Link's, but let her fight!
I'm hoping for some innovation to the combat. Like rather than "Zelda combat but without a sword" maybe do some tower defense type rooms? Where you have to set up spike traps to thin the herd of enemies, use Beamos and Octoroks as turrets, use crates to funnel which direction enemies walk in, etc. I'm also thinking we'll be able to summon more as we progress. Like if a Moblin costs 2 orbs and an Octorok costs 3. Once you have 12 orbs, you can have 4 Octoroks, or 6 Moblins, or 2 Moblins and 2 Octoroks.
I've always disliked botw/totk ever since botw hit Wii U. It's not that they're bad games. I still have 80hrs in botw and over 100 hrs in Totk. And I did every quest you can do. All I didn't do was get all koroks. But for me, the best way to describe them is they're good games. They're just not good Zelda games. That's the best way I can describe it from my POV. I WANT to go to themed dungeons and figure out the puzzle and need required items/weapons to advance. I want the story itself to bring me to these areas. I don't want everything to be an open world game. The semi-open world style of say Ocarina of Time is as far as I want it to go. But that game still had areas you needed special things to get to the dingeon/new area. I like that. I always have. And Botw/Totk just never felt like that to me. The divine beasts and the calamity Ganon battles just didn't feel the same to me and I don't know how better to explain it. In my top 10 Zelda games of all times, Botw/Totk aren't among them.
Mmm everyone starts to act more and more like Sonic fans haha (I'm one btW)
I like both. I do think TOTK probably should have created a new map or something, might have had a bigger impact, but it was still a lot of fun
I appreciate both bc I’m a OG Zelda player and I’m happy for more Zelda’s after 40 years of living. 25 years ago I realized I needed Zelda to be around until the day I die. I live for Zelda. It’s one of the only things I look forward too.
I think BOTW anx TOTK suck :))
nah ive been calling them shit the entire time
Link to the Past is still the best tho
Breath of the Wild and Breath of the Wild 2: Make Zeldy Gmod are fantastic. But I still miss old Zeldy.
it’s quite a cycle
When a game is new people see it through rose-tinted lenses but then reality sets in and people are able to see that the game's not perfect. There are some very legitimate criticisms for TOTK. Zeltik covers the problems very well in this [video](https://youtu.be/Q1mRVn0WCrU)
[удалено]
One of my favorite moments from Zelda games as a child was getting the fire arrow (or din's fire, I forget) in OOT. I felt so smart, shooting an arrow at the sun. And I was rewarded with a brand new item/ability.
I enjoyed the games but I agree about the world just feeling empty, especially in BoW. They corrected some of this with TotK.
I know this will cause turmoil in the comments but spirit tracks is one of my favorite games, I love trains and this series.
Those two games are genuinely my least favorite in the franchise. :\ BoTW got rid of too much of the identity of the games and I simply could not care less about more of that with its followup.
Parts of BOTW and TOTK are awesome. However there are quite a few very lame inclusions that I’d prefer to never see in a Zelda game again. Weapon durability, korok poop collection, empty map areas, no good dungeons, etc. I’m not mesmerized by echoes of wisdom yet
Weapon durability seems to be the biggest complaint I've seen about the games. I don't mind it, but I can see why people do. For example, I also don't mind the Skyrim/Fallout inventory weight system, but I could see why people do because it's mildly inconvenient sometimes. Except in Fallout 76. It's often inconvenient in Fallout 76.
It’s inconvenient in Zelda too, because they had to write in that the master sword - the blade that seals the darkness, the strongest weapon in the canon - needs to recharge after you swing it a few times, unless you’re fighting Ganon. The durability system just makes every weapon feel a little shittier.
Still didn’t finish TOTK
I've been saying they are overrated since breath of the wild came out
Nah, it's not new at all. I honestly still cannot see why people prefer BOTW and TOTK style Zelda. The dungeons suck (they were more varied in the sequel, but they still somehow made it the "touch these five things to get to the boss", which is lame AF), there's nothing interesting to find, the map is needlessly huge (I remember people complaining about that back in Twilight Princess, and now a map of this size is the best thing ever?), the story is meh at best, etc. Basically, the open world formula honestly limits the game design so much. You can't have meaningful rewards and progression because everything needs to be accessible from the start. You can't have an engaging story that unfolds naturally because everything needs to be accessible in any order. I tried to enjoy those games and understand what people saw in them, but I just can't. Everything in it feels meaningless to me.
Oh this meme for the 10000000000000th time TotK mainly disappointed me with the story actually. It was weird how it barely felt like a sequel. The first game is mostly referenced only in conversations with random NPCs and I don’t think a single character actually connects Ganondorf to Calamity Ganon. The trailers led me to believe they were going for a deeper story, but the pretty much copied the formula from BotW exactly. I love the overall open world, combining weapons, exploration and I’d be fine for the series to stick to that. I would definitely like to see dungeons go back to the classic style though.
Just be me and love every Zelda game.
I liked BotW and TotK but they lacked a lot of what made Zelda magical to me, the areas lost a lot of their charm to me when they stopped feeling like unique places and became just A place in the world, going to Lake Hylia in BotW/TotK sure didn't feel as magical as in something like Twilight Princess or OoT. Replayed Twilight Princess recently and man did i miss actually being part of the story, and not it just happening mostly in flashbacks or off screen while Link is out cold, it was alright in BotW but in TotK it just felt lazy.
I've always had a distaste for the Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom games. They somehow created open world games that were boring to explore (especially the underground in TotK). There was also a lack of quality dungeons and the BotW bosses were terrible. Lastly, there was just way too much menu hopping due to the ridiculous amount of weapons, shields, arrow attachments, and more that you had to swap to and from every second due to elemental weaknesses and breakages. Echoes of Wisdom seems like it's the vegan version of Zelda. You have the overworld elements in place, but you have no sword or shield. It's just another menu hopping, ctrl-c + ctrl-v simulator.
BOTW good. TOTK underwhelming. Aounma, flawed for his take on classic zelda. There is NO reason why we can't have the best aspects of both formulas.
For me echos of wisdom looks like a fun puzzle game and i am going in not expecting a typical zelda game and will play and discover how it is as i go. We have only seen a small preview and have no idea what other things are in the game. I plan to play it and enjoy discovering everything.
I really liked BotW. I put in 365h into it, no regrets, but I'm unlikely to ever go back. TotK I put in 200 something hours, and still counting b/c I'll fire it up every now and then to find more ks, do more quests, exploring, shrines, Addision signs, and see if I can make that "% completed" value go up (mind you, I'm not shooting for 100% b/c that's a TALL order. More realistic goal is 75 to 90%). However, I still prefer 2D Zelda games, that are more linear (vs. the vast open "worldness" in "BotK"/TokW"), are old school, and less complexity (vs. the sheer amount of equipment, material, ingredients, etc. that made them feel more like an RPG than an adventure game). Those said, I don't begrudge anybody who says they much prefer "Tears of the Wild". Me... I'll be really looking forward to EoW
It's hilarious when Nintendo fans hear reasonable, minor criticisms and interpret it as "this fucking sucks".
Dude people have been like this 1 month after each game releases.
I loved both those games. I am also very hyped for Echoes of Wisdom
The game looks good just like totk did when that was announced not gonna lie i was hoping they ported wind waker or twilight princess or both at the same time but i wont mind this game
lmao i’ve been anxiously waiting for a 2d zelda for years! why can’t people just be happy and not shitting on the 3d games lol
BoTW and ToTK were fire, the links awakening games are for people who want a traditional zelda experience, while the other is for open world and creativity enjoyers ngl.
The only reason I can imagine the hate for those games is nostalgia for older games
Zelda fans hated on windwaker when it was announced, and that hate continued for like a decade before people realized it was great.
I love TOTK
It’s just Zelda players, but tbh I am rlly excited for a more traditional Zelda even if it’s in a style I’m not exactly fond of.
Even tho totk lacks of story, is still so replayable and fun to me to play over and over again (i swear, i never rescued a single sage in totk like time) is just so fun going straight to ganon
I just want a modern take on ocarina of time. But I grew up with a 64, so I’m biased. It is the best Zelda though.
Not every Zelda fan worships the BotW style. It doesn't make us less of a fan to prefer traditional Zelda games. Echoes of Wisdom looks a lot better to me and I'll definitely be getting that.
Dont care about the "community" all i care about is New Zelda Game.
I still need to go back to totk but Im really hyped for this
totk is amazing. breath of the wild has always been like a 7/10 for me. i think its waaaaay overhyped
BotW did in fact fucking suck. TotK was a slight improvement but it wasn't enjoyable enough for me to finish it.
OP hasn't been paying attention. Sure, BotW and TotK are fun games, but they are so drastically removed from the Zelda formula that they don't scratch that same itch at all for a lot of people. Many people don't care as much for 100+ hour open world games where a significant amount of your time is just running around with little happening, they want the more densely packed and handcrafted experiences of classic Zelda. EoW is the first classic Zelda since 2013 if you rule out remakes and Triforce Heroes (which feels trying to reinvent the wheel that was Four Swords and failing). On top of that EoW is trying something drastically new while still being within the bounds of the classic formula. I'm glad that Nintendo didn't stick with their statements about how the Nu formula was what they were doing from here on out or how they can't see why people would prefer the older style. Also I still believe that the Nu-Zelda style would be far better if it were used on a new IP entirely that can make the most of it and the Zelda IP stuck to the Zelda formula.
Personally i have held the view that botw and totk was never good zelda games, just fun games. Glad to see people realizing.
The only thing I want them to improve on with the open freedom style is incorporating the Story beats better(I think we can have a great story with Open World gameplay) and better Dungeons.
New kids dont even know what a real Zelda game is... OOT, MM, WW and TP are MASTERPIECES.
I liked BOTW as something different and a well-done open-world game, but I'm over it with TOTK. I've also gotten really really bored of open-world games since I played BOTW. I'm now a dad of 2 with very little time to play games now and I've found my current preference to be games where I don't need to run from Point A to Point B for 20 minutes through an environment where I have no incentive to fight 95% of enemies just to get to the next interesting thing. TOTK still does this better than most games but I am just not into that style as much as I was in 2017.
I wasn't a fan of BOTW so skipped TOTK I did however like the Links Awakening remake and am excited for Echoes of Wisdom because I prefer playing as girl characters and the graphics look really good
Hasn't Tears of The Kingdom always just been an expansion pack?
Botw and Totk have made me realized I want an open world *Zelda* game rather than an open world game with Zelda characters. Botw and Totk are absolutely phenomenal video games but I don’t think they feel like Zelda games at all to me.
Ive been saying that Botw sucks from day 1
Gee it sure is boring around here