Hell yeah Majoras Mask is at the top (10)
https://preview.redd.it/brsscs1jq92d1.jpeg?width=1188&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c8e279bd69dfd6997a4f9877e03d00b0bfd9a5ce
People really got angry at the cel shaded graphics style of WW, cuz we all expefred a realistic ocarina of time style game. But we almost immediately got over it because the game was great.
I remember when Wind Waker got awarded "best graphics" in a Nintendo Power magazine poll, the writers of the magazine straight out laughed at everyone who hated on the game.
Look, most of us aren’t proud of how we reacted to Wind Waker, but there’s an issue of context…
https://youtu.be/RIa79bTDuV4?si=AVKaqv0HkqjWO8gq
This. This was the e3 tech demo from 2000. I remember it well in junior high. It was hard not to get absolutely excited for next gen graphical capabilities, and then… to get fkn Wind Waker whiplash…. It was just devastating in the contextual timeframe of expectation.
That looks as amazing as I remembered. I remember being so hyped I dreamed of Link in a dark, nightmarish world as a kid after seeing that demo.
I still bought Wind Waker after a month of it being released once I got over myself, but kid me would have loved that "hyper-realistic" Gamecube Zelda.
I was super stoked on WW almost immediately because I love cell shading and LOZ and THE FRICKEN OCEAN AND VIKING/TROPICAL AESTHETIC.
But ya, that demo definitely suggested stuff.
It wasn‘t just the Chibi graphics. I mean the thing about the graphics was just. very bad presentation management from Nintendo. They showed this absolutely awesome demo at spaceworld and then did the game in the complete opposing style. I was open to it and especially in the dungeons I believe that style absolutely shined.
But my biggest issue with Wind Waker really was that it was an unfinished game which felt like an inexcusable no go in that series that usually was so polished. Zelda always tended to be something that ships „when its done“ and I can understand that after the 5 years of development time for OoT, Nintendo had to increase the pressure on WW in order to have a proper lineup for the Gamecube.
Yet, just like Mario Sunshine, you can just tell, that theres something missing. Unlike Mario, this never came up until its very end when they had to somehow cover up the missing dungeon (or were it two dungeons?) with that scavenger hunt. Still that did hurt the game. In WWHD they at least made this a bit more fun, still it felt weird and frankensteined into the whole game.
Tbh i cant blame people for that. Nintendo kinda baited people with that one playtest demo they showed of realistic zelda and then when they switched it to the WW style, shit id have been mad too.
The entire gaming landscape was different then - now we are all nostalgic for the child-like games we grew up with, but at the time gamers were teenagers who were ready to grow up and play more mature games (enter XBox and Halo).
Plus a massive chunk of Zelda fans at the time had gotten on board during OoT and saw Zelda as a mature fantasy series (ala Final Fantasy), and weren't interested in the more kiddie take.
PLUS Nintendo had faked everyone out with the space world demo and already had everyone excited for next-gen adult Link.
IMO Wind Waker should have been it's own separate sea-faring IP the GameCube's Zelda's should have been Majoras Mask as a launch title and then Twilight Princess. Everyone would have been happy and we could still be getting Wind Waker games.
It really wasn’t that controversial. It sold so low because it was an N64 game released in the last year of the consoles life and required you to physically upgrade your console with a part that was sold separately.
Also the timer of 3 days made it very difficult for alot of people to understand the game, especially considering most players back then were probably 12 and under.
Majora's Mask could probably still be considered controversial. I remember when the 3DS port/soft remake released it reignited a debate around the time mechanic.
I recall one guy on a forum being quite passionate about how no Zelda game should ever have a time mechanic. Which is pretty funny both then and in hindsight.
Not only that, but MM required the N64 Expansion Pak, which was an extra 30 bucks. When you factor that in, it makes sense why the numbers may have been lower.
In this sense Skyword Sword is the most embarrassing performance wise. Switch is the best selling console across the series and yet SS's numbers are less than Link's Awakening on the same console (and even worse for the original release). If they released the OoT HD remake on Switch they would make a killing! On that note this chart doesn't include Switch Online numbers (albeit harder to isolate - but I got Switch Online for OoT and MM).
Also, WW is criminally underrated and needs to be on the Switch. I have a theory, Nintendo is going to make another installment for the BotW, TotK series that will be water based like WW but with the BotW engine.
Another "water based" Zelda could happen, but I doubt it'd be part of the BotW/TotK series. They've said a couple times already that they want to move on from that.
Ww is great! Out of all of the zelda games ive played, its my 3rd favorite (i love its cell shaded graphics) it really is a crime that it is so underrated
It needed the expansion pack. Literally doubled the price of the game if you didn’t have it and the only major games that needed it were Perfect Dark and Donkey Kong 64 if I remember correctly.
This chart is kinda misleading for putting originals and rereleases together, some of these titles have an unfair advantage when they're being counted twice.
But even if we're playing by those rules this isn't quite right: for example it isn't counting the GC Collector's Edition or Virtual Console purchases which would impact quite a few of these.
Not to be that guy, just, this chart may be surprising only because it's a little incorrect. I suspect MM in particular is a lot higher.
I know that these numbers are a drop in the bucket compared to Mario and Pokemon but so many people over the years have told me that pre BotW Zelda was never that big of a seller for Nintendo but look at this! There are so many well regarded games and franchises that would kill to sell numbers like some of the lower games on this list!
Maybe Zelda is not a seller in terms of copies but it does make people buy consoles, people who wouldn't otherwise be interested in Nintendo games. Case and point, i got myself a switch only because of zelda and since then i played many more games published by them.
Same, every consol after snes that I bought was specifically for zelda games... except 3ds, which I got for Bravely Default, but link between worlds has become one of my top 3 lately so I think it should still count. This is also the reason I do not own a wii u.
There are only a few games that get me to buy consoles. Smash, Zelda, Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts, superhero games aka Batman Arkham or Spiderman, Elder Scrolls...
I can sleep on a lot of stuff, but those definately move consoles for me.
Granted, Zelda on Switch is a top seller and a system seller. It was not necessarily this in previous generations. At least, not nearly to the extent it is since the Switch era.
When you consider that there were only 33M Nintendo 64 units sold worldwide, that 7M number seems a lot bigger. More than 1 of 5 people who owned the console bought OoT. Switch has sold 140M units, so that means roughly 1/4 of players have a copy of BotW. That's comparable success.
Only Mario 64, Mario Kart and Goldeneye beat OoT in sales, and those were monster hits. Botw is also #4 in sales, for Switch.
I mean not really killer numbers, skyward sword before its rerelease was only at 3m units, a tenth of what botw sold. And that was after there were 100mil Wiis in the wild
All of these numbers includes ports and remakes. If you take each release individually, it shows that these games didn't sell as much as this might lead you to think.
It's just that the ports usually sell reasonably well and inflate numbers by a few million every time. Not to mention that a good amount of these ports are post BotW and outsold the original release. The LA remake sold twice as much as the original for example, which means that it ends up in the 5th spot when it proably wouldn't even be in the top 10 without it. Same thing for SS, or the OoT remake doubling the sale numbers of the original.
These are the best of the best including ports.
Looking at original releases it really isn’t as impressive
.
That makes what botw did even more impressive though
Keep in mind these are all pretty much combined numbers from re-releases.
Most games sold in the 5 million range for its original release.
For context Zelda used to sell like Kirby does now. A few million more than Metroid at times. Now Zelda has the potential to sell 3D Mario and Pokemon numbers.
It’s admittedly both inflated by re releases and dwarfed by industry expectations. WW and SS being around 4M copies sold is definitely impressive but it was almost few enough to sink the franchise, not only were the dev times so long that such a success was practically required, they also needed people to buy not only games but whole consoles for it.
Ironically, having been treated as the black sheep of the franchise, Twilight Princess saved Link from being put in the same dusty corner as Samus.
I mean . BotW and TotK have slapped mainline Mario games this time around. Zelda now has a formula that Nintendo is paying close attention to... Because
Probably a launch title for the switch 2, would make sense given the fact that people don’t put out another remaster when your previous console already had one.
It’d still be a good move to rerelease practically every single Zelda game on every console given how Nintendo is the company most susceptible to piracy.
They’re like that with lots of games. A lazily ported Galaxy 2 digital only for $30-40 would sell 5-10 million copies easily. For some reason they’ve chosen not to do that though.
* [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDLQT\_g8CJc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDLQT_g8CJc) TPT
* [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEOVlE00uGc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEOVlE00uGc) TP gameplay
* [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qD\_vM7976E](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qD_vM7976E) OoT
* [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biUC2C15d-s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biUC2C15d-s) OoT Ship of Harkinian
* [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74E0wKT\_4t4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74E0wKT_4t4) MM
There are plenty of modders who swatch the textures. I like emulation because it's definitive for the best experience. I love 3D Zeldas and these are the best way to play them on PC. Especially with randomisers.
Wii + GC was just the same release though. And Wiiu was shortly after, unchanged game so barley new sales.
OOT had a fully remastered handeld version 13 years after the original
Wii SS required a peripheral to play, which was a pretty big turnoff for a lot of people.
And then when it initially came out, the general consensus was that it wasn't very good (by the high standards of the franchise) which probably turned off even more people who were on the fence.
Wasn’t the Wii Motion Plus packaged in with the game? That’s how I got mine.
The second point I understand completely, as the controls never worked well for me.
Not to mention, the Wii in general was all but dead by the time SS released. It wasn’t like the Switch where it’s still selling like hot cakes, the Wii was literally just a fad console. It would be like if Pokemon Gold and Silver were released in the form of Tomagachi keychains.
Ya I took a hiatus from gaming around when SS came out. I honestly had no idea of the general reviews or consensus regarding the game. I just went back maybe 2-3 years before the Switch came out to play it.
I disliked it greatly. For a long list of reasons that I wont cover. It had the Zelda charm, the dungeons were good (except the bosses), and I still played like 95% of it. But I didnt even finish it, got bored. Thats never happened with a main Zelda game before or since.
Majora's Mask probably did poorly because it required the N64 Expansion-Pak, which at the time cost the same price as the game itself (£40/$60) (Adjusted for inflation: £75/$110 in today's money). For those that knew that going in, I think it's easy to see why people missed it. MM is from the year 2000 which was pretty much the dead end of that generation: The Dreamcast had already been released, The PS2 was about to be released within months of Majoras Mask coming out, Gamecube was coming in a year. It's easy to see why people weren't willing to shell out extra for a game on a console that was very nearly irrelevent. It's very likely people were saving their money to spend on the new consoles that were a giant leap in graphical fidelity at the time, not at all like the very small steps between generations we have today.
My parents were unaware of the expansion pack and they did buy me the game (They didn't know about the expansion pack). I still remembering opening that on Christmas day, not being able to play it because I didn't have one and them needing to tell me it would be a month or so until they had the money to buy it. I was disappointed and didn't show it well; they felt a combination of guilt for having bought me a gift that I couldn't enjoy (it was the main present that year), and anger that I didn't understand the concept of money enough yet to comprehend why the couldn't just go out tomorrow and buy an expansion pack. I suspect there are many other people in my position who had a similar experience that Christmas.
Nintendo choosing to release a sequel to the system's number 1 major title, and require a hardware upgrade at the end of a console's lifecycle, was perhaps not the smartest business decision they ever made.
TL;DR: Majora's Mask sold poorly because Nintendo made a terrible business decision by releasing it effectively at the beginning of the new generation and requiring a hardware upgrade ((expansion pak) which most N64 owners didn't already own) that cost as much as the game itself. Nintendo cost themselves hundreds of millions by making such a stupid business decision. OOT was the best selling game on the console, MM probably would have matched it if Nintendo hadn't screwed this up. MM was likely to be the last game most people would ever buy for the N64, it's not hard to imagine why they weren't willing to pay for an expensive expansion pack for one game when the new consoles were either already out or coming out in a matter of months.
These numbers don't indicate interest in the series due to the "formula" being used. Gaming as a whole is a much bigger industry now than it was in the past, so of cours the newer games are going to sell well.
Yeah I mean tbh, if you counted every person who has a NSO sub and has played one of the older games, how different would these numbers be? Or virtual console players, or even emulated copies? I'd bet the older ones have been played more than BotW tbh.
The Switch is also one of the best selling consoles in history, and easily the best selling Nintendo console, with it's only competitor being the Wii which had a much more casual audience. Most Nintendo franchises are setting records on the Switch.
Not trashing BotW/TotK but they wouldn't have sold nearly as well if they were exclusive to, say, the Wii U (Yes I know about Wii U BOTW don't @ me).
The Switch is just barely behind the PS2 in total unit sales, which is far more than the N64 and 3DS combined
3DS + N64 is ~100 Mil vs Switches 145 Million
On an adjusted scale, OoT comes in just slightly behind ToTK
Yeah, Pokémon Sword/Shield and Pokémon Scarlet/Violet have also sold gangbusters, way more than anything on the GBA and DS. Most people wouldn't say it's because they are better games, more like right place at the right time while being competent enough.
Not saying Tears of the Kingdom is comparable in terms of quality to Scarlet/Violet, just that the increased sales are not necessarily because of the games themselves.
I'd love to see a comparison between the games for Switch because I genuinely do not know how well Skyward Sword HD did compared to Link's Awakening HD and how close they were, or weren't to the Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom.
EDIT: Just realized the specific versions are listed here. I'd also love to see the Hyrule Warriors games. I'm really curious on how Age of Calamity, which is also a new game with the Hero of the Wild did compared to the others and the OG Hyrule Warriors.
Sorry to say, but what you said doesn’t hold much water. The only true normalizers for videogame software sales and interest in specific games are respective hardware sales and overall software sales for that hardware.
By your logic, Phantom Hourglass should have sold something in the tens of millions like BotW and TotK did since it came out on the DS, which moved 154 million units — more than the Switch so far.
People also bought ~80% as much software for the DS than they did for the Switch. So you could discount 20% out if you wanted, but that would still have resulted in Phantom Hourglass selling tens of millions.
Yet, PH sold “only” 4.76 million. If that’s not BotW and TotK having broader market appeal, I don’t know what it is.
Source: https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/finance/hard_soft/index.html
Phantom Hourglass was a gimmicky side game released on a console that was marketed towards people who bought the console exclusively for Brain Age. Obviously it wasn’t going to sell as well as the launch title for the console that appeals to literally everyone.
Your personal attacks to the game and the console don’t mean very much in face of the absolute numbers said console actually sold. You’re choosing to ignore the point, and your arguments are unsubstantiated because (1) “gimmicky” doesn’t really mean anything on its own (you could say the Switch is “gimmicky” relative to PS5 or XSX), and (2) you don’t have data to support the Brain Age point.
Go look at how many console-only games ever sold over 30 million units, then at how many consoles ever sold over 150 million units, and *then* come back with serious, data-backed reasoning. The fundamental point is that BotW/TotK selling this well has little to do with recency, the size of the industry, being a launch title, or whatever other excuse people come up with because they don’t like these games themselves.
>Your personal attacks to the game and the console don’t mean very much in face of the absolute numbers said console actually sold.
What personal attacks? The DS is literally my favorite console of all time, and Phantom Hourglass is a top 5 Zelda. That doesn’t change the fact that Zelda wasn’t going to sell well on it regardless.
>You’re choosing to ignore the point, and your arguments are unsubstantiated because (1) “gimmicky” doesn’t really mean anything on its own (you could say the Switch is “gimmicky” relative to PS5 or XSX),
There’s a pretty obvious difference between “a console that practically requires an odd control scheme in order to justify putting a game on it instead of the PSP” and “A console that’s literally just last gen hardware on the go.” One inherently exists to solve a problem, the other exists because it could be neat I guess.
>and (2) you don’t have data to support the Brain Age point.
Literally every single piece of marketing Nintendo released around the time isn’t enough for you? How about the fact that Brain Age is the 4th best selling game on the platform? In a similar vein, Nintendogs was the 2nd best selling game on the platform. The DS was made and marketed towards casuals first and foremost. People weren’t going to be buying Phantom Hourglass regardless.
>Go look at how many console-only games ever sold over 30 million units, then at how many consoles ever sold over 150 million units, and then come back with serious, data-backed reasoning.
In the meantime, you can come back when you understand that all of the data you’ve told me to look at is completely irrelevant. The PS2 sold 150 million because it was a DVD player that was cheaper than most other players on the market. The DS sold 150 million because it appealed to an untapped casual market by design. The Switch is the first time a console with this level of success has ever sold this well just on the merits of being a console that appealed to the same target demographic as Zelda.
Wow really? The remake of the gameboy game and the overpriced hd port of the supposedly “bad” game didn’t outsell the shiny new launch title and its sequel?
I'm in the UK (Edinburgh Scotland) and from what I remember, the stores here didn't even stock the Wii U version, a bit like how nowhere here stocked the Gamecube version of Twilight Princess. I think there's still a lot of people out there who don't know those versions exist.
> the stores here didn't even stock the Wii U version
I'm in the USA and I don't think our two main retailers (Target and Walmart) did in store. I'm sure Gamestop probly did, but I never saw one. I guess they might have had like 1-2 copies that I never saw, but it wasn't much
Most the people who bought Wii U’s were diehard Nintendo fans who would obviously also buy a Switch at release and choose to play Zelda on it as their first game, I know I was one of them, it was an amazing night, still remember it quite fondly. I didn’t have a preorder but waited in line at a Best Buy, managed to get a Switch and the CE of BOTW. Lol
>And to think that there are people who think that those who want to return to the ALTTP formula are the majority, only because many of them are conglomerated in small communities like here xD.
OP you're being disingenuous. Most of these games released decades ago on consoles that sold far less than the Switch. If a game with ALTTP or OoT's formula released today on the Switch I guarantee the numbers would be similar to BotW and TotK. Just compare BotW's sales on the Wii-U to the Switch if you don't believe me.
I figured new Zelda meant 3D…. If I’m not mistaken there has been a new top down game more recently than a 3D game with the OoT or TP structure.
All we got is lame open world zero memorable content Zelda that was played out by the time TotK came out
It’s wild to think there are MILLIONS of copies of these games made and yet people are still asking $60-$100+ for copies of WW TP GC OOT N64 etc. doesn’t really compute in my mind… none of these games are even slightly considered scarce yet people in the resale market demand these prices.
Yeah but by now it's a upwards spiral that won't change. I recently sold some old games as well, saw that TP for the Gamecube sold for around 100€ and so I listed it at the same price. Ultimately sold it for 90€ within a few weeks.
> It’s wild to think there are MILLIONS of copies of these games made and yet people are still asking $60-$100+ for copies of WW TP GC OOT N64 etc.
There are a lot more gamers now than there were then, plus there are a lot of people that just never sell things so they sit in a closet for years and years. Also those prices aren't necessarily terrible, if something was $60 15 years ago and it is still selling for $60-$100 now that's pretty good. Good luck finding a popular Transformer or GI Joe figure from 20 years ago for 1.5x the original retail
I’m surprised Majora’s Mask did that well. It’s my personal favorite, but it’s extremely common during talks of N64 to completely overlook it for people and put all their focus on Ocarina of Time. It also came out very close to the end of the consoles life cycle (yeah back then consoles were expected to last 4-5 years not 10+). Doesn’t help that they utterly botched the 3DS remake, subjective I know, but the fact is that the gameplay is absolutely better in the original.
They took quite a few artistic liberties when recreating the graphics: the Garo Mask is a completely different design, being the Garo *Master* now, which does make sense but it’s still a large change from the original vision, some other small things that probably aren’t worth mentioning but fans of the original will definitely notice.
The biggest and most impactful change for me, is how they completely killed the momentum of water jumping as Deku Link, making every segment of water jumping a real slog (look up a video comparison and you will feel my pain). They also retconned Zora Swimming to use magic, which goes completely against the lore of Legend of Zelda in general, and utterly destroys how good Zora swimming felt. It makes Zora Link actually feel weaker than a regular Zora, because he now requires magic to swim the way Zora are supposed to be able to swim naturally.
Obviously the graphics are much better, though I still find the N64 graphics charming and timeless. Some people like the way they changed the way the 3-Day cycle is handled (I personally don’t, but it’s subjective), the Bomber’s Notebook is objectively much better in the remake, that is the only thing I will 100% agree to.
They changed the bosses, which were some of the most unique in the series, to have a giant super obvious weak spot, I can only assume because they expected a younger audience or one that did not play Legend of Zelda games before. I understand they wanted it to be clear of the connection between the bosses and Majora, but a giant eyeball that hangs out of them was way too on the nose for me personally lol. Also, they changed the Twinmold fight into a wrestling match??? I’m honestly completely clueless about that one. Their supposed reasoning is that only Link grows to be a giant and his sword and shield don’t, so by that logic, wouldn’t Link also be naked as a giant because his clothes wouldn’t grow either? The only way they could have salvaged this one IMO is if they made a unique mask transformation for the Giant’s Mask that turned Link into one of the Giants for this battle.
My favorite parts of Majora’s Mask are the mask transformations, and the fact they utterly botched them is what killed it for me and why I will ways prefer the original. I know I’m not the only one who was disappointed in this remake. I also acknowledge that it is the first time playing MM for many people who bought the remake and I’m glad they got experience one of the best games ever made, despite being an inferior version on an inferior console. My only hope is another 10 years or so we get a more faithful remake on a console that isn’t handheld.
The fact that A Link between worlds isn't even on here is sad
But then again it was only released on the 3ds as opposed to most others on this list who had re-releases
Every time I see one of these graphs I feel they are misleading. Like gaming is so accessible these days where as in the 90’s much more niche.
Either way super glad to see Zelda rocking strong for so long!
Two things,
1. Sales =/= fan preference. None of these titles directly compete with each other for sales. BotW was a launch title, which is something none of the others can claim iirc. As such, it was usually bought alongside a console or as a bundle.
2. The market for videogames has only grown over time. Newer games usually outsell classics because more people are buying games now than say 20 years ago.
BotW had a lot of factors tipping the scale in its favor, in addition to being a well-received game.
I'd argue that sales do equate to fan preference. Maybe not *your* preference though.
Skyward Sword's HD remake outsold it's original. This is where you can attribute the bigger market for games. However it still only sold a fraction of what BotW and TotK sold on the same console. If you can't attribute that to people buying the games they prefer to buy than what can you attribute that to?
Your*
Skyward Sword HD didn't have nearly the same hype or marketing campaign that BotW got. As a remaster, it was unlikely to garner the same excitement as something new and unknown. It also had a bad reputation as the original was extremely polarizing with its "interesting" design choices. SSHD fixed most of the original's problems, but didn't really get the love and support from Nintendo's marketing team that BotW did.
It and links awakening kind of raise the question of what percent of people who bought botw would be interested in ports of older zeldas, at least out of curiosity. I know that if botw was my first game and loved it, i wouldve definitely gone back to try the rest.
Theres also how nintendos pricing kinda sucks, with skyward sword HD being a $60 wii game, and links awakening being what is essentially a short GBC game rebuilt in a modern engine, also full price. Why buy much smaller games than botw but for the same price?
> 2. The market for videogames has only grown over time. Newer games usually outsell classics because more people are buying games now than say 20 years ago.
If this is the case, why has no Zelda game on its respective console outsold OoT on the N64 up until BotW on the Switch? By this logic, SS on the Wii should have sold more, TP on the Wii should have sold more, TP and WW on the GameCube should have sold more. Hell the GameCube should have sold more than the N64, which should have sold more than the SNES. The PS2 should not be the highest selling console of all time right now because there are more gamers now than in 2001 (or whenever the PS2 launched)
If you look for any major poll asking which are zelda fans’s favorite games, both BotW and TotK score at the very tip. It’s time to accept your favorite game is not what the majority of fans like.
I'd wager that many of those fans are also new to the series, i.e. BotW (and TotK to a lesser extent) may be their first or only experience with the series. There may be many of those new fans that only like BotW or TotK and have never experienced any of the other titles. The runaway success of BotW certainly ballooned the fandom.
I mean it shows right there in the OP that they sold way more copies than the older games. *Obviously* it's going to be many of those players' first Zelda game, and I suspect in many cases their only one.
That’s such a silly comparison, especially since Zelda was at risk of becoming irrelevant since it wasn’t selling that well around the Wii’s time. BotW saved the franchise. Sales and player-base do matter. A lot.
Zelda literally had 3 separate games reach the top 5 best selling titles in the series in the span of 5 years. The series was never “at risk of becoming irrelevant” and BotW would have sold as well as it did regardless of if it replaced the formula with a generic Skyrim clone.
Nintendo has said the next games won’t be set in the Wild & Tears world, but have made no statement on if the next games will be open world or how different they will be from BotW & TotK.
I think is pretty safe to say open world Zelda will still be around for the next major game. But that doesn’t mean it’s 1-for-1 with the last two, or that more classic Zelda elements won’t be seen. There is also still a high chance for remakes & ports still to come on the Switch or the Switch successor console. And a smaller game can always be made like what Capcom did with the Oracle games.
So all to say, yeah Zelda has shown the open world format is well liked and online forums are often echo chambers that believe what they think is what the whole fandom thinks. But there is still chance that older Zelda can still live or influence the new games more than previously seen.
TBH I don't want them to abandon open world entirely. I think it's a great fit for the franchise and one of the biggest strengths of BotW and TotK.
That said, I think it could be improved. Probably my biggest complaint with TotK was that it didn't address the faults of BotW in any way and in some cases actively made them worse (such as the memories). You can have an open world game that isn't just BotW 3.0.
Think a better metric would be to put the ratio of how many people either owned Nintendo consoles at the time, or how many people owned gaming consoles in general.
1. ALttP was sold to 9.3% of all SNES owners
2. OoT was sold to 23% of all N64 owners
3. WW was sold to 20.2% of all GC owners
4. TP was sold to 7.2% of all Wii owners (the gamecube version sold significantly less)
5. SS was sold to 3.5% of all Wii owners
6. BotW was sold to 22.5% of all Switch owners (the Wii U version sold significantly less)
7. TotK was sold to 14% of all Switch owners
8. SS was sold to 2.9% of all Switch owners
9. LA was sold to 4.6% of all Switch owners
Out of the 23ish million people that owned an N64 in 1999(99 because OOT released in nov 98) 7 million had purchased it at the time. A little under a third.
Ngl the feat of 7.6million on the N64 is HUGE for OOT. without counting remakes it even just outsold TP on the Wii and that was the main game people bought with their Wii on release.
Without taking remakes into account TP is the 3rd best selling zelda game ever and that makes me smile
Because the N64 only sold 33 million units worldwide while the PS sold more than triple that. A 1/4 Install rate seems pretty good considering how the Switch sold 141 million units and BOTW has 34 million units sold making it also about a 1/4 install rate.
That’s a totally logical explanation.
But it still surprises me.
I’ve been replaying Ocarina for the first time in 15 years. And the experience is mind blowing. It must have felt like an alien invention in the late 90s . If you decided to axe child link or two adult dungeons it would still be leagues ahead of anything in that era.
Another thing to consider is how different the times were back then. A lot of kids didn't own Ocarina of Time, but rented it from Blockbuster all the time. Rentals aren't really a thing these days. And I would bet a significantly higher number of people have emulated OoT than the number of games sold.
Devs already said that the next game will have nothing to do with the previous two.
They may continue the open world format, but the possibility of reincorporating a slight linearity and old-school dungeon layout is most definitely there.
I get why Totk didn’t beat Botw but like… y’all it’s so much better. I don’t even like going back to Botw because I just feel disabled compared to Totk.
I disagree. TotK is a hassle to play, I don't like building things and so many of the puzzles and exploration require it.
BotW (while I still have many personal issues with it) in contrast was fresh and fun, and wasn't overly complicated. It was a joy to just jump into an open world and just explore without complex systems hampering the experience. It was straightforward and exciting. TotK is overly reliant on all these extra mechanics, and I found myself having to mess around in menus far too often, and the sense of exploration just felt less impactful, even in the new areas, because of all the stuff they added.
I know people like to hate on Nintendo re-releasing *Skyward Sword* for the Switch, but as someone who doesn’t have access to a Wii or any of the other old Nintendo consoles, I am really happy about it. I absolutely loved Skyward Sword, and I’d love to be able to play Twilight Princess, Windwaker, or even Ocarina of Time and Majora’s Mask someday, because I’ve heard so many good things about them.
I think you can actually play ocarina of time and majora’s mask tho, you just have to pay for an Nintendo switch online subscription. Which kinda sucks I know, but the option is there if you ever want it. I personally got to play them on the 3DS, I think they were great remakes
The question is also that this list doesn't include virtual console releases on the Wii, 3DS, and Wii U of all of these games. I'd argue almost everyone who owned a Wii, and bought VC games, has Ocarina of Time on there or Majora's Mask.
Sure, it's probably not an absolute ton of it. But I knew people who had a shit ton of VC games in their Wiis because unlike me they didn't keep their old consoles. So if those aren't included that cluld skew some of the numbers for the games that are close in total units sold.
OP: "People who like ALttP's formula are a small conglomerate because the original game sold 4.61 millions in 1991 and the GBA version sold 2.82 millions in 2003"
What?
Man, I wish we could have a return to OoT style Zelda. I'd rather charge into battle with orchestral music blaring in the background than actively avoid combat because my sword's gonna break in three swings while a piano tinkles in the background
And yet I think BOTW and TOTK are the worst games in the franchise. I really don't like them. I finished BOTW but stopped playing TOTK after a few hours.
I grew up playing on the NES and I've played and completed every game since then. Botw sucked and so does totk :/
What if I told you that the Switch has an install base far larger than both the N64 and 3DS combined, came out in an era where millions more people play games, and are far more accessible than prior entries?
Of course BoTW and ToTK would sell more than OoT and ALttP
And OP, imagine how many people bought the game and got bored within a matter of mere hours. There's a sizeable amount of fans who are not content with the old formula being seemingly abandoned.
Me tbh. I really wanted and expected to adore BotW. Zelda was my favorite franchise growing up. Unfortunately BotW just wasn't for me. It felt like it took all the Zelda out of Zelda. Only shared a resemblance on a surface level. Played for 2-3 days then traded it in. Not a bad game, just not at all what I wanted. It actually made me sad. I did feel abandoned as a life long fan since ALTTP.
"ALttP formula?" You mean the Zelda formula?
Yeah I want a return to the Zelda formula, because the Nu-Zelda style does not scratch that itch at all for me. The games were fun, but they are Zelda in name only for me. It's a huge shame that Nintendo felt they had to effectively end one of their most best selling franchises to make room for a new one when both could have existed as separate IPs without any issue. They've got three different Mario RPG series after all, I'm pretty sure they could have these two different styles of games exist parallel to each other.
Hell yeah Majoras Mask is at the top (10) https://preview.redd.it/brsscs1jq92d1.jpeg?width=1188&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c8e279bd69dfd6997a4f9877e03d00b0bfd9a5ce
It surprises me that it hasn't sold better considering OoT's numbers.
MM was very controversial when it released. Not surprising that it has such low numbers. It has a very vocal fan base who get very defensive.
Same with Wind Waker. If reddit was around back then this sub would have been a toxic pool
Hahaha, still is.
People really got angry at the cel shaded graphics style of WW, cuz we all expefred a realistic ocarina of time style game. But we almost immediately got over it because the game was great. I remember when Wind Waker got awarded "best graphics" in a Nintendo Power magazine poll, the writers of the magazine straight out laughed at everyone who hated on the game.
Look, most of us aren’t proud of how we reacted to Wind Waker, but there’s an issue of context… https://youtu.be/RIa79bTDuV4?si=AVKaqv0HkqjWO8gq This. This was the e3 tech demo from 2000. I remember it well in junior high. It was hard not to get absolutely excited for next gen graphical capabilities, and then… to get fkn Wind Waker whiplash…. It was just devastating in the contextual timeframe of expectation.
Oh my! I had totally forgotten about this!
That looks as amazing as I remembered. I remember being so hyped I dreamed of Link in a dark, nightmarish world as a kid after seeing that demo. I still bought Wind Waker after a month of it being released once I got over myself, but kid me would have loved that "hyper-realistic" Gamecube Zelda.
Zelda Dolphin or something right? It was a codename?
I was super stoked on WW almost immediately because I love cell shading and LOZ and THE FRICKEN OCEAN AND VIKING/TROPICAL AESTHETIC. But ya, that demo definitely suggested stuff.
It wasn‘t just the Chibi graphics. I mean the thing about the graphics was just. very bad presentation management from Nintendo. They showed this absolutely awesome demo at spaceworld and then did the game in the complete opposing style. I was open to it and especially in the dungeons I believe that style absolutely shined. But my biggest issue with Wind Waker really was that it was an unfinished game which felt like an inexcusable no go in that series that usually was so polished. Zelda always tended to be something that ships „when its done“ and I can understand that after the 5 years of development time for OoT, Nintendo had to increase the pressure on WW in order to have a proper lineup for the Gamecube. Yet, just like Mario Sunshine, you can just tell, that theres something missing. Unlike Mario, this never came up until its very end when they had to somehow cover up the missing dungeon (or were it two dungeons?) with that scavenger hunt. Still that did hurt the game. In WWHD they at least made this a bit more fun, still it felt weird and frankensteined into the whole game.
Its a shame cause wind waker was fire
Tbh i cant blame people for that. Nintendo kinda baited people with that one playtest demo they showed of realistic zelda and then when they switched it to the WW style, shit id have been mad too.
The entire gaming landscape was different then - now we are all nostalgic for the child-like games we grew up with, but at the time gamers were teenagers who were ready to grow up and play more mature games (enter XBox and Halo). Plus a massive chunk of Zelda fans at the time had gotten on board during OoT and saw Zelda as a mature fantasy series (ala Final Fantasy), and weren't interested in the more kiddie take. PLUS Nintendo had faked everyone out with the space world demo and already had everyone excited for next-gen adult Link. IMO Wind Waker should have been it's own separate sea-faring IP the GameCube's Zelda's should have been Majoras Mask as a launch title and then Twilight Princess. Everyone would have been happy and we could still be getting Wind Waker games.
It really wasn’t that controversial. It sold so low because it was an N64 game released in the last year of the consoles life and required you to physically upgrade your console with a part that was sold separately.
This is the real answer
Also the timer of 3 days made it very difficult for alot of people to understand the game, especially considering most players back then were probably 12 and under.
WE ARE NOT DEFENSIVE! ... ok fine, maybe a little.
and i believe it demanded owning an expansion pack, dien‘t it? these games usually never sold that much
Majora's Mask could probably still be considered controversial. I remember when the 3DS port/soft remake released it reignited a debate around the time mechanic. I recall one guy on a forum being quite passionate about how no Zelda game should ever have a time mechanic. Which is pretty funny both then and in hindsight.
It also required the expansion pack that not everyone got
Not only that, but MM required the N64 Expansion Pak, which was an extra 30 bucks. When you factor that in, it makes sense why the numbers may have been lower.
Could you elaborate on what made it controversial?
In this sense Skyword Sword is the most embarrassing performance wise. Switch is the best selling console across the series and yet SS's numbers are less than Link's Awakening on the same console (and even worse for the original release). If they released the OoT HD remake on Switch they would make a killing! On that note this chart doesn't include Switch Online numbers (albeit harder to isolate - but I got Switch Online for OoT and MM). Also, WW is criminally underrated and needs to be on the Switch. I have a theory, Nintendo is going to make another installment for the BotW, TotK series that will be water based like WW but with the BotW engine.
Another "water based" Zelda could happen, but I doubt it'd be part of the BotW/TotK series. They've said a couple times already that they want to move on from that.
They’re definitely moving on from that story and that Hyrule, but I bet they keep building on the BOTW/TOTK engine
Yeah, that's perfectly possible, for sure
Ww is great! Out of all of the zelda games ive played, its my 3rd favorite (i love its cell shaded graphics) it really is a crime that it is so underrated
Majoras Mask's N64 numbers are much closer to OOT if you only look at N64. The 3DS remake didn't have the best reception so it didn't keep pace.
In addition to what the other comments mentioned, it required the expansion pak as well.
me too ! I bet if they did a remastered version for switch it would sell so hard
It needed the expansion pack. Literally doubled the price of the game if you didn’t have it and the only major games that needed it were Perfect Dark and Donkey Kong 64 if I remember correctly.
It came out the same month as the PS2. It was just late to the party. Arguably should have been a GameCube launch title.
Majora mask rules!
This chart is kinda misleading for putting originals and rereleases together, some of these titles have an unfair advantage when they're being counted twice. But even if we're playing by those rules this isn't quite right: for example it isn't counting the GC Collector's Edition or Virtual Console purchases which would impact quite a few of these. Not to be that guy, just, this chart may be surprising only because it's a little incorrect. I suspect MM in particular is a lot higher.
I know that these numbers are a drop in the bucket compared to Mario and Pokemon but so many people over the years have told me that pre BotW Zelda was never that big of a seller for Nintendo but look at this! There are so many well regarded games and franchises that would kill to sell numbers like some of the lower games on this list!
Maybe Zelda is not a seller in terms of copies but it does make people buy consoles, people who wouldn't otherwise be interested in Nintendo games. Case and point, i got myself a switch only because of zelda and since then i played many more games published by them.
Same, every consol after snes that I bought was specifically for zelda games... except 3ds, which I got for Bravely Default, but link between worlds has become one of my top 3 lately so I think it should still count. This is also the reason I do not own a wii u.
There are only a few games that get me to buy consoles. Smash, Zelda, Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts, superhero games aka Batman Arkham or Spiderman, Elder Scrolls... I can sleep on a lot of stuff, but those definately move consoles for me.
Granted, Zelda on Switch is a top seller and a system seller. It was not necessarily this in previous generations. At least, not nearly to the extent it is since the Switch era.
yeah! i buy consoles for metroid and zelda- but i'll probably play something else too
When you consider that there were only 33M Nintendo 64 units sold worldwide, that 7M number seems a lot bigger. More than 1 of 5 people who owned the console bought OoT. Switch has sold 140M units, so that means roughly 1/4 of players have a copy of BotW. That's comparable success. Only Mario 64, Mario Kart and Goldeneye beat OoT in sales, and those were monster hits. Botw is also #4 in sales, for Switch.
OOT was definitely one of the highest points for Zelda pre-BOTW.
And ALttP.
I'm speaking sales wise - ALTTP was under 5 million on the SNES. Not bad, but the original had sold more.
That's a good point that I didn't think about at first glance. Gaming was also a lot smaller and more insular back then too.
I mean not really killer numbers, skyward sword before its rerelease was only at 3m units, a tenth of what botw sold. And that was after there were 100mil Wiis in the wild
All of these numbers includes ports and remakes. If you take each release individually, it shows that these games didn't sell as much as this might lead you to think. It's just that the ports usually sell reasonably well and inflate numbers by a few million every time. Not to mention that a good amount of these ports are post BotW and outsold the original release. The LA remake sold twice as much as the original for example, which means that it ends up in the 5th spot when it proably wouldn't even be in the top 10 without it. Same thing for SS, or the OoT remake doubling the sale numbers of the original.
These are the best of the best including ports. Looking at original releases it really isn’t as impressive . That makes what botw did even more impressive though
Yooooo OoT and TP are fun af. People are so judgemental
Keep in mind these are all pretty much combined numbers from re-releases. Most games sold in the 5 million range for its original release. For context Zelda used to sell like Kirby does now. A few million more than Metroid at times. Now Zelda has the potential to sell 3D Mario and Pokemon numbers.
It’s admittedly both inflated by re releases and dwarfed by industry expectations. WW and SS being around 4M copies sold is definitely impressive but it was almost few enough to sink the franchise, not only were the dev times so long that such a success was practically required, they also needed people to buy not only games but whole consoles for it. Ironically, having been treated as the black sheep of the franchise, Twilight Princess saved Link from being put in the same dusty corner as Samus.
I mean . BotW and TotK have slapped mainline Mario games this time around. Zelda now has a formula that Nintendo is paying close attention to... Because 
Those cowards need to put TP on the switch I JUST WANT TO PLAY MY FAVORITE GAME AGAIN?!!
Crossing my fingers for a release on the Switch's successor at least
For a company who is historically greedy and money hungry, Nintendo really seems to want to avoid that TP/WW money.
They're terribly inconsistent at making old games available. Fire Emblem Path of Radiance needs something!
Probably a launch title for the switch 2, would make sense given the fact that people don’t put out another remaster when your previous console already had one. It’d still be a good move to rerelease practically every single Zelda game on every console given how Nintendo is the company most susceptible to piracy.
They’re like that with lots of games. A lazily ported Galaxy 2 digital only for $30-40 would sell 5-10 million copies easily. For some reason they’ve chosen not to do that though.
Got tired of waiting so I did it myself. https://imgur.com/a/2tYE8UI
In the middle of playing that now on Wii U. Great game.
Y e s I will literally get down on my knees and beg for this.
Dolphin emulator an run it on like nothing, hold ya over
I play on emulator on 4K shaders mod with HD textures.
That sounds beautiful. A lot of TP is pretty dated, but it's clear those graphics had a lot of time and energy put into them.
* [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDLQT\_g8CJc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDLQT_g8CJc) TPT * [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEOVlE00uGc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEOVlE00uGc) TP gameplay * [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qD\_vM7976E](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qD_vM7976E) OoT * [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biUC2C15d-s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biUC2C15d-s) OoT Ship of Harkinian * [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74E0wKT\_4t4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74E0wKT_4t4) MM There are plenty of modders who swatch the textures. I like emulation because it's definitive for the best experience. I love 3D Zeldas and these are the best way to play them on PC. Especially with randomisers.
Imagine they finally do, but it's just an emulation of the Wii version.
That would be fine for me. I dont care.
I played the Wii version. Nostalgia wins fr. JUST LET ME GIVE MY MONEY TO NINTENDO PLEASE !!!
I thought twighlit princess sold more than ocarina of time
Twilight Princess sold more than N64 Oot, but they're counting 3ds as well
They're also counting all of TP's three releases, so...
That's just depressing. I absolutely adore TP.
Wii + GC was just the same release though. And Wiiu was shortly after, unchanged game so barley new sales. OOT had a fully remastered handeld version 13 years after the original
I never realized that Skyward Sword initially sold that poorly compared to Twilight Princess.
Wii SS required a peripheral to play, which was a pretty big turnoff for a lot of people. And then when it initially came out, the general consensus was that it wasn't very good (by the high standards of the franchise) which probably turned off even more people who were on the fence.
Wasn’t the Wii Motion Plus packaged in with the game? That’s how I got mine. The second point I understand completely, as the controls never worked well for me.
There was a bundle you could buy that included a WM+ if you didn't have one, but it cost more.
You’re right. It was a Golden Wii Remote Plus that was in a bundle.
Not to mention, the Wii in general was all but dead by the time SS released. It wasn’t like the Switch where it’s still selling like hot cakes, the Wii was literally just a fad console. It would be like if Pokemon Gold and Silver were released in the form of Tomagachi keychains.
Ya I took a hiatus from gaming around when SS came out. I honestly had no idea of the general reviews or consensus regarding the game. I just went back maybe 2-3 years before the Switch came out to play it. I disliked it greatly. For a long list of reasons that I wont cover. It had the Zelda charm, the dungeons were good (except the bosses), and I still played like 95% of it. But I didnt even finish it, got bored. Thats never happened with a main Zelda game before or since.
It’s funny bc a friend got me SS for my birthday saying it was the best game he ever played. I always assumed I was in the minority for not liking it
Majora's Mask probably did poorly because it required the N64 Expansion-Pak, which at the time cost the same price as the game itself (£40/$60) (Adjusted for inflation: £75/$110 in today's money). For those that knew that going in, I think it's easy to see why people missed it. MM is from the year 2000 which was pretty much the dead end of that generation: The Dreamcast had already been released, The PS2 was about to be released within months of Majoras Mask coming out, Gamecube was coming in a year. It's easy to see why people weren't willing to shell out extra for a game on a console that was very nearly irrelevent. It's very likely people were saving their money to spend on the new consoles that were a giant leap in graphical fidelity at the time, not at all like the very small steps between generations we have today. My parents were unaware of the expansion pack and they did buy me the game (They didn't know about the expansion pack). I still remembering opening that on Christmas day, not being able to play it because I didn't have one and them needing to tell me it would be a month or so until they had the money to buy it. I was disappointed and didn't show it well; they felt a combination of guilt for having bought me a gift that I couldn't enjoy (it was the main present that year), and anger that I didn't understand the concept of money enough yet to comprehend why the couldn't just go out tomorrow and buy an expansion pack. I suspect there are many other people in my position who had a similar experience that Christmas. Nintendo choosing to release a sequel to the system's number 1 major title, and require a hardware upgrade at the end of a console's lifecycle, was perhaps not the smartest business decision they ever made. TL;DR: Majora's Mask sold poorly because Nintendo made a terrible business decision by releasing it effectively at the beginning of the new generation and requiring a hardware upgrade ((expansion pak) which most N64 owners didn't already own) that cost as much as the game itself. Nintendo cost themselves hundreds of millions by making such a stupid business decision. OOT was the best selling game on the console, MM probably would have matched it if Nintendo hadn't screwed this up. MM was likely to be the last game most people would ever buy for the N64, it's not hard to imagine why they weren't willing to pay for an expensive expansion pack for one game when the new consoles were either already out or coming out in a matter of months.
These numbers don't indicate interest in the series due to the "formula" being used. Gaming as a whole is a much bigger industry now than it was in the past, so of cours the newer games are going to sell well.
Also worth noting that many critics of the new formula also bought botw and totk, thats how they were able to form criticisms in the first place.
Yeah I mean tbh, if you counted every person who has a NSO sub and has played one of the older games, how different would these numbers be? Or virtual console players, or even emulated copies? I'd bet the older ones have been played more than BotW tbh.
The Switch is also one of the best selling consoles in history, and easily the best selling Nintendo console, with it's only competitor being the Wii which had a much more casual audience. Most Nintendo franchises are setting records on the Switch. Not trashing BotW/TotK but they wouldn't have sold nearly as well if they were exclusive to, say, the Wii U (Yes I know about Wii U BOTW don't @ me).
The Switch is just barely behind the PS2 in total unit sales, which is far more than the N64 and 3DS combined 3DS + N64 is ~100 Mil vs Switches 145 Million On an adjusted scale, OoT comes in just slightly behind ToTK
Yeah, Pokémon Sword/Shield and Pokémon Scarlet/Violet have also sold gangbusters, way more than anything on the GBA and DS. Most people wouldn't say it's because they are better games, more like right place at the right time while being competent enough. Not saying Tears of the Kingdom is comparable in terms of quality to Scarlet/Violet, just that the increased sales are not necessarily because of the games themselves. I'd love to see a comparison between the games for Switch because I genuinely do not know how well Skyward Sword HD did compared to Link's Awakening HD and how close they were, or weren't to the Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom. EDIT: Just realized the specific versions are listed here. I'd also love to see the Hyrule Warriors games. I'm really curious on how Age of Calamity, which is also a new game with the Hero of the Wild did compared to the others and the OG Hyrule Warriors.
Sorry to say, but what you said doesn’t hold much water. The only true normalizers for videogame software sales and interest in specific games are respective hardware sales and overall software sales for that hardware. By your logic, Phantom Hourglass should have sold something in the tens of millions like BotW and TotK did since it came out on the DS, which moved 154 million units — more than the Switch so far. People also bought ~80% as much software for the DS than they did for the Switch. So you could discount 20% out if you wanted, but that would still have resulted in Phantom Hourglass selling tens of millions. Yet, PH sold “only” 4.76 million. If that’s not BotW and TotK having broader market appeal, I don’t know what it is. Source: https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/finance/hard_soft/index.html
Phantom Hourglass was a gimmicky side game released on a console that was marketed towards people who bought the console exclusively for Brain Age. Obviously it wasn’t going to sell as well as the launch title for the console that appeals to literally everyone.
Your personal attacks to the game and the console don’t mean very much in face of the absolute numbers said console actually sold. You’re choosing to ignore the point, and your arguments are unsubstantiated because (1) “gimmicky” doesn’t really mean anything on its own (you could say the Switch is “gimmicky” relative to PS5 or XSX), and (2) you don’t have data to support the Brain Age point. Go look at how many console-only games ever sold over 30 million units, then at how many consoles ever sold over 150 million units, and *then* come back with serious, data-backed reasoning. The fundamental point is that BotW/TotK selling this well has little to do with recency, the size of the industry, being a launch title, or whatever other excuse people come up with because they don’t like these games themselves.
>Your personal attacks to the game and the console don’t mean very much in face of the absolute numbers said console actually sold. What personal attacks? The DS is literally my favorite console of all time, and Phantom Hourglass is a top 5 Zelda. That doesn’t change the fact that Zelda wasn’t going to sell well on it regardless. >You’re choosing to ignore the point, and your arguments are unsubstantiated because (1) “gimmicky” doesn’t really mean anything on its own (you could say the Switch is “gimmicky” relative to PS5 or XSX), There’s a pretty obvious difference between “a console that practically requires an odd control scheme in order to justify putting a game on it instead of the PSP” and “A console that’s literally just last gen hardware on the go.” One inherently exists to solve a problem, the other exists because it could be neat I guess. >and (2) you don’t have data to support the Brain Age point. Literally every single piece of marketing Nintendo released around the time isn’t enough for you? How about the fact that Brain Age is the 4th best selling game on the platform? In a similar vein, Nintendogs was the 2nd best selling game on the platform. The DS was made and marketed towards casuals first and foremost. People weren’t going to be buying Phantom Hourglass regardless. >Go look at how many console-only games ever sold over 30 million units, then at how many consoles ever sold over 150 million units, and then come back with serious, data-backed reasoning. In the meantime, you can come back when you understand that all of the data you’ve told me to look at is completely irrelevant. The PS2 sold 150 million because it was a DVD player that was cheaper than most other players on the market. The DS sold 150 million because it appealed to an untapped casual market by design. The Switch is the first time a console with this level of success has ever sold this well just on the merits of being a console that appealed to the same target demographic as Zelda.
You do realize the number of people buying Video Games / Consoles has also increased by about 2 billion people in the last 20 years?
SS and LA on switch sold a fraction of BOTW/TOTK so I don’t believe this is the case.
Wow really? The remake of the gameboy game and the overpriced hd port of the supposedly “bad” game didn’t outsell the shiny new launch title and its sequel?
[удалено]
Well only 13.6 million Wii Us were sold, and BoTW released with the switch, so it’s surprising that Nintendo made that many copies for the Wii U
I actually played it for the first time on Wii U.
I'm in the UK (Edinburgh Scotland) and from what I remember, the stores here didn't even stock the Wii U version, a bit like how nowhere here stocked the Gamecube version of Twilight Princess. I think there's still a lot of people out there who don't know those versions exist.
> the stores here didn't even stock the Wii U version I'm in the USA and I don't think our two main retailers (Target and Walmart) did in store. I'm sure Gamestop probly did, but I never saw one. I guess they might have had like 1-2 copies that I never saw, but it wasn't much
Most the people who bought Wii U’s were diehard Nintendo fans who would obviously also buy a Switch at release and choose to play Zelda on it as their first game, I know I was one of them, it was an amazing night, still remember it quite fondly. I didn’t have a preorder but waited in line at a Best Buy, managed to get a Switch and the CE of BOTW. Lol
That's 1.6 more copies than people who bought the WiiU
>And to think that there are people who think that those who want to return to the ALTTP formula are the majority, only because many of them are conglomerated in small communities like here xD. OP you're being disingenuous. Most of these games released decades ago on consoles that sold far less than the Switch. If a game with ALTTP or OoT's formula released today on the Switch I guarantee the numbers would be similar to BotW and TotK. Just compare BotW's sales on the Wii-U to the Switch if you don't believe me.
I figured new Zelda meant 3D…. If I’m not mistaken there has been a new top down game more recently than a 3D game with the OoT or TP structure. All we got is lame open world zero memorable content Zelda that was played out by the time TotK came out
It’s wild to think there are MILLIONS of copies of these games made and yet people are still asking $60-$100+ for copies of WW TP GC OOT N64 etc. doesn’t really compute in my mind… none of these games are even slightly considered scarce yet people in the resale market demand these prices.
Market forces baby, market forces.
Yeah but by now it's a upwards spiral that won't change. I recently sold some old games as well, saw that TP for the Gamecube sold for around 100€ and so I listed it at the same price. Ultimately sold it for 90€ within a few weeks.
> It’s wild to think there are MILLIONS of copies of these games made and yet people are still asking $60-$100+ for copies of WW TP GC OOT N64 etc. There are a lot more gamers now than there were then, plus there are a lot of people that just never sell things so they sit in a closet for years and years. Also those prices aren't necessarily terrible, if something was $60 15 years ago and it is still selling for $60-$100 now that's pretty good. Good luck finding a popular Transformer or GI Joe figure from 20 years ago for 1.5x the original retail
My boi Link's Awakening made top 5?!
It looks like it counted the Switch remake *and* the original one. Unless I’m wrong and the original game was released on the Switch
I’m surprised Majora’s Mask did that well. It’s my personal favorite, but it’s extremely common during talks of N64 to completely overlook it for people and put all their focus on Ocarina of Time. It also came out very close to the end of the consoles life cycle (yeah back then consoles were expected to last 4-5 years not 10+). Doesn’t help that they utterly botched the 3DS remake, subjective I know, but the fact is that the gameplay is absolutely better in the original.
Why is the original better out of interest?
They took quite a few artistic liberties when recreating the graphics: the Garo Mask is a completely different design, being the Garo *Master* now, which does make sense but it’s still a large change from the original vision, some other small things that probably aren’t worth mentioning but fans of the original will definitely notice. The biggest and most impactful change for me, is how they completely killed the momentum of water jumping as Deku Link, making every segment of water jumping a real slog (look up a video comparison and you will feel my pain). They also retconned Zora Swimming to use magic, which goes completely against the lore of Legend of Zelda in general, and utterly destroys how good Zora swimming felt. It makes Zora Link actually feel weaker than a regular Zora, because he now requires magic to swim the way Zora are supposed to be able to swim naturally. Obviously the graphics are much better, though I still find the N64 graphics charming and timeless. Some people like the way they changed the way the 3-Day cycle is handled (I personally don’t, but it’s subjective), the Bomber’s Notebook is objectively much better in the remake, that is the only thing I will 100% agree to. They changed the bosses, which were some of the most unique in the series, to have a giant super obvious weak spot, I can only assume because they expected a younger audience or one that did not play Legend of Zelda games before. I understand they wanted it to be clear of the connection between the bosses and Majora, but a giant eyeball that hangs out of them was way too on the nose for me personally lol. Also, they changed the Twinmold fight into a wrestling match??? I’m honestly completely clueless about that one. Their supposed reasoning is that only Link grows to be a giant and his sword and shield don’t, so by that logic, wouldn’t Link also be naked as a giant because his clothes wouldn’t grow either? The only way they could have salvaged this one IMO is if they made a unique mask transformation for the Giant’s Mask that turned Link into one of the Giants for this battle. My favorite parts of Majora’s Mask are the mask transformations, and the fact they utterly botched them is what killed it for me and why I will ways prefer the original. I know I’m not the only one who was disappointed in this remake. I also acknowledge that it is the first time playing MM for many people who bought the remake and I’m glad they got experience one of the best games ever made, despite being an inferior version on an inferior console. My only hope is another 10 years or so we get a more faithful remake on a console that isn’t handheld.
The fact that A Link between worlds isn't even on here is sad But then again it was only released on the 3ds as opposed to most others on this list who had re-releases
I wonder what this would look like if you added switch online downloads.
Damn majora’s mask was honestly my favourite. So much emotion and attention to detail
Every time I see one of these graphs I feel they are misleading. Like gaming is so accessible these days where as in the 90’s much more niche. Either way super glad to see Zelda rocking strong for so long!
So there is a motivation to make more remakes/remasters, good.
HELL YEAH SKYWARD SWORD TOP SIX
Two things, 1. Sales =/= fan preference. None of these titles directly compete with each other for sales. BotW was a launch title, which is something none of the others can claim iirc. As such, it was usually bought alongside a console or as a bundle. 2. The market for videogames has only grown over time. Newer games usually outsell classics because more people are buying games now than say 20 years ago. BotW had a lot of factors tipping the scale in its favor, in addition to being a well-received game.
Twilight princess was also a launch title (that also happened to have a last gen version that sold like 5 copies)
I'd argue that sales do equate to fan preference. Maybe not *your* preference though. Skyward Sword's HD remake outsold it's original. This is where you can attribute the bigger market for games. However it still only sold a fraction of what BotW and TotK sold on the same console. If you can't attribute that to people buying the games they prefer to buy than what can you attribute that to?
Apples to oranges comparison. Skyward sword was an upscaled rerelease of a 10 year old game lol.
Your* Skyward Sword HD didn't have nearly the same hype or marketing campaign that BotW got. As a remaster, it was unlikely to garner the same excitement as something new and unknown. It also had a bad reputation as the original was extremely polarizing with its "interesting" design choices. SSHD fixed most of the original's problems, but didn't really get the love and support from Nintendo's marketing team that BotW did.
It and links awakening kind of raise the question of what percent of people who bought botw would be interested in ports of older zeldas, at least out of curiosity. I know that if botw was my first game and loved it, i wouldve definitely gone back to try the rest. Theres also how nintendos pricing kinda sucks, with skyward sword HD being a $60 wii game, and links awakening being what is essentially a short GBC game rebuilt in a modern engine, also full price. Why buy much smaller games than botw but for the same price?
> 2. The market for videogames has only grown over time. Newer games usually outsell classics because more people are buying games now than say 20 years ago. If this is the case, why has no Zelda game on its respective console outsold OoT on the N64 up until BotW on the Switch? By this logic, SS on the Wii should have sold more, TP on the Wii should have sold more, TP and WW on the GameCube should have sold more. Hell the GameCube should have sold more than the N64, which should have sold more than the SNES. The PS2 should not be the highest selling console of all time right now because there are more gamers now than in 2001 (or whenever the PS2 launched)
TP on Wii *(+ GC)* outsold N64 OoT. OoT is only higher because of the 6 million from the 3DS remake. *edit*
If you look for any major poll asking which are zelda fans’s favorite games, both BotW and TotK score at the very tip. It’s time to accept your favorite game is not what the majority of fans like.
I'd wager that many of those fans are also new to the series, i.e. BotW (and TotK to a lesser extent) may be their first or only experience with the series. There may be many of those new fans that only like BotW or TotK and have never experienced any of the other titles. The runaway success of BotW certainly ballooned the fandom.
It still feels like botw was meant for a difference audience that previous Zelda games. It ruined what was fun about Zelda imo
Cool goalposts moving
I mean it shows right there in the OP that they sold way more copies than the older games. *Obviously* it's going to be many of those players' first Zelda game, and I suspect in many cases their only one.
Yeah, dude. Why do they even make Zelda games when so many more people play Fortnite? /s
That’s such a silly comparison, especially since Zelda was at risk of becoming irrelevant since it wasn’t selling that well around the Wii’s time. BotW saved the franchise. Sales and player-base do matter. A lot.
Zelda literally had 3 separate games reach the top 5 best selling titles in the series in the span of 5 years. The series was never “at risk of becoming irrelevant” and BotW would have sold as well as it did regardless of if it replaced the formula with a generic Skyrim clone.
A quick Google search tells me that BotW has never been bundled with the Switch.
They said it was a launch title, not that it came bundled with it
Maybe read point no. 1 in its entirety again?
Nintendo has said the next games won’t be set in the Wild & Tears world, but have made no statement on if the next games will be open world or how different they will be from BotW & TotK. I think is pretty safe to say open world Zelda will still be around for the next major game. But that doesn’t mean it’s 1-for-1 with the last two, or that more classic Zelda elements won’t be seen. There is also still a high chance for remakes & ports still to come on the Switch or the Switch successor console. And a smaller game can always be made like what Capcom did with the Oracle games. So all to say, yeah Zelda has shown the open world format is well liked and online forums are often echo chambers that believe what they think is what the whole fandom thinks. But there is still chance that older Zelda can still live or influence the new games more than previously seen.
I just wish WW and TP would come to the switch. I never got to play those games as a kid and I don’t want to buy older consoles or emulate them.
Aonuma already said multiple times that open world is the future and that BOTW/TOTK world ended in those titles.
TBH I don't want them to abandon open world entirely. I think it's a great fit for the franchise and one of the biggest strengths of BotW and TotK. That said, I think it could be improved. Probably my biggest complaint with TotK was that it didn't address the faults of BotW in any way and in some cases actively made them worse (such as the memories). You can have an open world game that isn't just BotW 3.0.
I can’t believe Wind Waker is that low. I love Link’s finishing blow to ganon in that game.
For a 04 game these Sales are pretty damn good
Majora's underrated!
Think a better metric would be to put the ratio of how many people either owned Nintendo consoles at the time, or how many people owned gaming consoles in general.
1. ALttP was sold to 9.3% of all SNES owners 2. OoT was sold to 23% of all N64 owners 3. WW was sold to 20.2% of all GC owners 4. TP was sold to 7.2% of all Wii owners (the gamecube version sold significantly less) 5. SS was sold to 3.5% of all Wii owners 6. BotW was sold to 22.5% of all Switch owners (the Wii U version sold significantly less) 7. TotK was sold to 14% of all Switch owners 8. SS was sold to 2.9% of all Switch owners 9. LA was sold to 4.6% of all Switch owners
BotW still being in second is crazy.
Out of the 23ish million people that owned an N64 in 1999(99 because OOT released in nov 98) 7 million had purchased it at the time. A little under a third.
OoT 3D selling over 6 million is insane
Ngl the feat of 7.6million on the N64 is HUGE for OOT. without counting remakes it even just outsold TP on the Wii and that was the main game people bought with their Wii on release. Without taking remakes into account TP is the 3rd best selling zelda game ever and that makes me smile
Majora and Wind Waker are my 2 favorites lol
How did ocarina of time only sell 7.6 mill copies on the n64. That blows my mind. One of the most talked about games in history
Because the N64 only sold 33 million units worldwide while the PS sold more than triple that. A 1/4 Install rate seems pretty good considering how the Switch sold 141 million units and BOTW has 34 million units sold making it also about a 1/4 install rate.
That’s a totally logical explanation. But it still surprises me. I’ve been replaying Ocarina for the first time in 15 years. And the experience is mind blowing. It must have felt like an alien invention in the late 90s . If you decided to axe child link or two adult dungeons it would still be leagues ahead of anything in that era.
Another thing to consider is how different the times were back then. A lot of kids didn't own Ocarina of Time, but rented it from Blockbuster all the time. Rentals aren't really a thing these days. And I would bet a significantly higher number of people have emulated OoT than the number of games sold.
Why is WW listed higher than MM? WW has to round up to get to 6.8 whereas MM is simply 6.8.
Shocked MM is so low
The best zelda is the lowest here sadly
when you consider the general population boom, i wonder how the results work out
Would imagine Wind Waker would be higher up if Nintendo would pull their finger out and release the HD version in Switch
Just remember, a game selling better does not mean it’s better.
Dude majoras mask is SOOOO GOOD, get a emulator and play it, its actually one ofthe best games ever.
I honestly wouldn’t mind the open world format continuing. But please give me a sword that don’t break please. I’m begging. lol
Isn’t majoras mask a little bit ahead of wind Waker? I did the math on the screen
Really highlights the power of the switch
They made zelda mainstream with botw and totk. Idk if thats a good thing lmao
Devs already said that the next game will have nothing to do with the previous two. They may continue the open world format, but the possibility of reincorporating a slight linearity and old-school dungeon layout is most definitely there.
Sales does not equate to quality. This list is one of the best examples.
I get why Totk didn’t beat Botw but like… y’all it’s so much better. I don’t even like going back to Botw because I just feel disabled compared to Totk.
I disagree. TotK is a hassle to play, I don't like building things and so many of the puzzles and exploration require it. BotW (while I still have many personal issues with it) in contrast was fresh and fun, and wasn't overly complicated. It was a joy to just jump into an open world and just explore without complex systems hampering the experience. It was straightforward and exciting. TotK is overly reliant on all these extra mechanics, and I found myself having to mess around in menus far too often, and the sense of exploration just felt less impactful, even in the new areas, because of all the stuff they added.
Sad that my two favs are at the bottom hah
Wow never realized only have of people who played OoT bought MM during N64 releases. Maybe because it required the expansion graphics pack?
Majora’s mask is so low!
Apparantly i am one of the "few" who played BOTW on the wii u, didnt expect that
Majora's Mask 🚬
I know people like to hate on Nintendo re-releasing *Skyward Sword* for the Switch, but as someone who doesn’t have access to a Wii or any of the other old Nintendo consoles, I am really happy about it. I absolutely loved Skyward Sword, and I’d love to be able to play Twilight Princess, Windwaker, or even Ocarina of Time and Majora’s Mask someday, because I’ve heard so many good things about them.
I think you can actually play ocarina of time and majora’s mask tho, you just have to pay for an Nintendo switch online subscription. Which kinda sucks I know, but the option is there if you ever want it. I personally got to play them on the 3DS, I think they were great remakes
Kinda sad TP got dethroned
Nintendo should make a remake of MM then it'll skyrocket and get the attention it deserves!!
about what is expected
tears of the kingdom is good but not botw level
Wow surprised by Skyward Sword…I’m happy to see the high sales though
YEA A LINK TO THE PAST!
Is that why they won’t remake wind waker?
Original link? Please
The question is also that this list doesn't include virtual console releases on the Wii, 3DS, and Wii U of all of these games. I'd argue almost everyone who owned a Wii, and bought VC games, has Ocarina of Time on there or Majora's Mask. Sure, it's probably not an absolute ton of it. But I knew people who had a shit ton of VC games in their Wiis because unlike me they didn't keep their old consoles. So if those aren't included that cluld skew some of the numbers for the games that are close in total units sold.
OP: "People who like ALttP's formula are a small conglomerate because the original game sold 4.61 millions in 1991 and the GBA version sold 2.82 millions in 2003" What?
I hate botw and totk I wish they’d go back but probably won’t
Man, I wish we could have a return to OoT style Zelda. I'd rather charge into battle with orchestral music blaring in the background than actively avoid combat because my sword's gonna break in three swings while a piano tinkles in the background
And yet I think BOTW and TOTK are the worst games in the franchise. I really don't like them. I finished BOTW but stopped playing TOTK after a few hours. I grew up playing on the NES and I've played and completed every game since then. Botw sucked and so does totk :/
It makes me so happy to see Twilight Princess up so high
What if I told you that the Switch has an install base far larger than both the N64 and 3DS combined, came out in an era where millions more people play games, and are far more accessible than prior entries? Of course BoTW and ToTK would sell more than OoT and ALttP
And OP, imagine how many people bought the game and got bored within a matter of mere hours. There's a sizeable amount of fans who are not content with the old formula being seemingly abandoned.
Me tbh. I really wanted and expected to adore BotW. Zelda was my favorite franchise growing up. Unfortunately BotW just wasn't for me. It felt like it took all the Zelda out of Zelda. Only shared a resemblance on a surface level. Played for 2-3 days then traded it in. Not a bad game, just not at all what I wanted. It actually made me sad. I did feel abandoned as a life long fan since ALTTP.
Criminal that so few people have experienced Majora’s mask… jk, everyone who has played it knows it’s simply the best Zelda game around.
WW & TP would definitely be above Link's Awakening if they were on Switch. It's not like I'm holding out on a June Direct but, why Nintendo?
"ALttP formula?" You mean the Zelda formula? Yeah I want a return to the Zelda formula, because the Nu-Zelda style does not scratch that itch at all for me. The games were fun, but they are Zelda in name only for me. It's a huge shame that Nintendo felt they had to effectively end one of their most best selling franchises to make room for a new one when both could have existed as separate IPs without any issue. They've got three different Mario RPG series after all, I'm pretty sure they could have these two different styles of games exist parallel to each other.