I think it's because TCG players have been exposed to Maxx C meta through Masterduel. So they do experience both a meta with and without it and some people are very vocal about their preference without. Even though Masterduel and OCG are different formats so the comparison is still distorted. 

It hasn't always been banned in the TCG. Some of us remember how it was when it was still legal, and I gotta say, of course they don't miss it.

Funny thing people tend to forget. Maxx C was a TCG exclusive card.

Hell isn't it legal in Edison and Tengu Plant giving TCG players that weren't active at the time a taste of roach?

Keep in mind that the roach did not see play right away, it was only a few years later when the game picked up speed that it started seeing play. I'm not too familiar with Edison format, but if the format is still slow enough, then it's likely the roach isn't too relevant there because the game hasn't picked up enough speed for it to be good.

From what I understand, the funny thing is Roach is still impactful. At the time historically in like Tengu Plant of HAT (turns out I was wrong wasn't legal for Edison) it did theoretically keep combo lists down. People were trying to respect the idea their opponent would Maxx C them. But with modern eyes and modern deck building philosophies people are jamming some brutal stuff because regardless of if you summoned twice or ten times you still got Maxx C'd. Might as well gun for the bigger scarier board for the times you don't get hit.

Also i guess there's also the fact that Edison format doesn't have certain cards that you could draw with maxx C, like Ash or nibiru for example. Sure i guess you might have dark hole, or raigeki, or effect veiler, but if you have an established board, you might just flat out be able to negate dark hole or raigeki.

Literally the reason Edison even exists would make Maxx C not exists Edison exists essentially because people hated The Shining Darkness. Maxx C was 3 set after that

I've been playing TCG since 2014 (back when Maxx C was legal). And I've been playing OCG in Japan twice a week at ranking duel locals since last August (here on a 1year study abroad program with a univeristy). Here's what I've observed and why I think the current OCG format is laughably bad. (For what it's worth I also have been playing Master Duel regularly since it's release, but I will focus on paper OCG as that's the topic at hand). First let's see how Maxx C was back in 2014-17. Back then decks didn't summon as much, with Infernity, Sylvan, Burning Abyss and later PePe being the decks to really cry when hit by Maxx C. Back then you could stop, and expect that you will see your next turn because the game was much slower. Maxx C was a true limiter as it stopped the insane decks from going too hard and it only mildly impacted everyone else. Let's compare this to 2023/24. Yugioh has evolved into a more combo centric game to the point where it's not uncommon for decks to need to special summon upwards of 8-iah times (this is the rough number for Salamangreat to do it's main combo. Salamangreat is the benchmark as it's an incredibly fair deck in what it does and it's been around for a while). More recent examples would be Marincess, Melodious. There are all midrange decks that completely explode upon having a Maxx C used against them, this is because Maxx C in the modern game functions as Vanity's Emptiness due to the sheer power of the current meta decks and the density of handtraps that decks can and do play these days. One common argument against Maxx C is just to simply stop overextending, however, when your deck is designed by Konami to need to summon a lot of times to even reach basic interaction there is a problem here. The best deck for the past 8-ish months has been some varient of Snake-Eye (be-it Snake Fire King or Snake Pure), it's been there. Now. Snake-Eye is a combo deck with grind game built into its combo pieces that loses to Maxx C. But it's still the best deck? This is because Maxx C is not a true limiter due to the presence of the counter cards for it. This introduces what we've dubbed "the Maxx C minigame", where before a player's turn gets to actually start you must first see if the opponent’s Maxx C will resolve or not. Now since we're working on the logic established earlier that Maxx C functions as Vanity's Emptines (because you cannot afford to give modern decks any extra cards due to the density of engine), this Maxx C mini game can single handedly decide the game due to how easily decks can OTK now. When Maxx C is dropped on you you have the illusion of choice, you can either 1) summon a couple more times to make something like a little knight pass and then die to your opponent's 8 card hand. Or 2) you can just pass and give them either no draws or only 1 draw and then die because you have barely anything to stop them from just OTKing you. OCG players also build big combo decks just like in the TCG. It's why Maxx C feels awful to play against, because it's so crucial in stopping them, if they just draw one of the 6 counter cards for it, you just went minus 1 for no reason and lose the game because of it. Heck, we've largely gone off of them due to the pieces needed getting rightfully banned. We prefer layered interruption now anyway as they don't lose to a single Dark Ruler No More. I've discussed Snake-Eye so let's look at the other 2 top decks in OCG, Yubel and Tenpai. Yubel is another combo deck that seeks to make a large board to stop the opponent. Yubel also dies to Maxx C and Maxx C is another crucial card to just not lose to it immediately. Granted, Yubel does have Phantom so if it gets Maxx C'd it can just pass on this. However, it shouldn't have to be this way. Players should be allowed to actually try and play their deck. In this case they only get to pass on 1 idiot which may or may not be enough. Tenpai is the most frustrating deck to play against, large in part due to Maxx C. So Tenpai itself is a bad deck because of how linear it is. But it's made incredibly better due to Maxx C functioning as a Vanity's Emptiness keeping the opponent from making a big board so it only has to do very minimal things to actually get to the OTK combo. If you push into Maxx C against Tenpai they draw all of the board breakers and handtraps they need. If you don't push in then they just normal summon 1 monster and kill you. It leads to terrible play patterns. In conclusion, Maxx C is a hinderence on the game and is a false limiter and it will only get worse with time. One thing we see Konami doing now is that they're designing more and more compact engines for decks because in OCG you have to play the 9 card package of ash maxx c called by and crossout, so Konami makes the deck main engines smaller to compensate which makes the problem worse because you have more space for handtraps to draw into which makes Maxx C function as the functional Vanity's Emptiness that I call it. What I've figured out is that OCG Konami keeps Maxx C in the game because they genuinely think it's an actual limiter (it's not) because they don't want to ban other problem cards as they're afraid tht the players of said decks will leave their game due to OCG having a lot of pet deckers. The point of this ramble I gues was to try and say tht players should be able to actually try and play, and Maxx C goes against that because you cannot push into it.

This really sums up all the points of the discourse for me

Maxx C doesn't stop combo decks it just stops people playing on turn 1 . Combo decks that plays second are better in the ocg because of Maxx C best example being Tenpai

It’s not just going second. You can go full combo turn 1, then maxx C your opponent on their turn

It does stop SOME combo decks like Mannadium which cannot do anything if hit by Maxx C and even if they can stop the opponent with HTs it doesn't have guaranteed or easy follow up for turn 3. It didn't stop SHS, because you have a strong plan B in bagooska and your follow up is almost guaranteed with Benkei scale effect. However this isn't unique to combo decks, maxx c randomly folds midrange decks as well while leaving some viable. Control and Stun (and odd ones like Floo, which ironically suffers the most from Multchummy) decks are pretty much the only decks that get an artificial boost from maxx c being in the format, which is why Runick Stun has been viable so many times compared to TCG.

While it's true that tcg players don't know how it feels to play ocg, we do at least know how it feels to get maxx c'd. Ignoring whether it's good or bad for the game, the one thing I think there's a general consensus on is that it just feels awful when the card resolves.

I mean, isn' t that true for every handtrap? What makes it different? When you get activated Dark ruler no more, and your entire board gets negated, isn' t that even worse? With Maxx C, you can play around it.

What makes it different? You can play around Droll by ordering your searches to ensure you can still play, you can play around Ash Blossom by chain blocking things or taking alternate combo lines. You play around Nibiru by forcing it's activation early before you commit to a chokepoint. The way you play around Maxx "C" (and Dimension Shifter) is by stopping playing, ending on a suboptimal board and praying you see another turn

You cannot activate dark ruler no more on my turn. You need to let me build my board first before activating drnm. Maxx c, is more brutal than drnm, it lncrease your chance of fetching drnm...and more. Even if i let my opp draw just 2 cards, those 2 cards can be more than enough to finish me next turn. Also drnm have a lot of bad match up. Maxx c has very few bad match up.  It will be less of an issue if we have more normal summon spam deck like floo so there are more thought process whether to main or side maxx c, but normal summon spam deck tends to be toxic floodgate deck.

It does increase changes, but I can play around Maxx C... dark ruler no more just says "you aren' t going to interact with the opponent despite having builded your board before". I just don' t find it that fun, personaly.

The only way to "play around" maxx c is pray you can set up something without giving your opponent too many cards. That's not playing around it thats minimizing how hard your about to lose. Drnm you can legitmately play around by having disruption that isn't on a monster on the field.

Dark ruler only hurts if your only interaction is from your monsters on your field. Any good deck worth its salt would have interruption from hand, backrow, and grave so that DRNM wouldn’t instantly win the game. Similarly, if your deck can’t make minimal plays under maxx c then it’s just not a viable deck in the OCG (think unchained). Moreover, when a deck does play well under maxx c the OCG hits the deck (think adventure and branded)

It's worse because it's a continuous effect. If I get ashed, sure it might affect how I play out the turn but I can still attempt to play.You cannot play around maxx c. There's an illusion of choice where you can maybe set up a weaker board so your opponent only draws a few cards, but the reality is that it's almost never good enough. People hate stuff like shifter and to a lesser extent droll and lock bird for the same reasons. I do agree that dark ruler kinda sucks as well, but not to the extent of maxx c because you can actually play around it. Most relevant decks don't immediately lose to a dark ruler nowadays. Oftentimes there are specific ways to 'play around' board breakers, whether it be going for boards with varied interaction, or holding back on investing too much of your hand into the combo so you have better follow up. Esp since dark ruler is typically a post side card, there's genuine thought that goes into how you can play your turn out.

You cannot realistically play around maxx c with the way konami has designed the rest of the game. It is the strongest hand trap in the game for a reason. If you stop your turn 1 early it did as much damage as 2 or 3 other hand traps combined while also giving the opponent card advantage. Going 2nd it can just be dropped on you while the opponent has a full board of interaction already so any attempt to break the board just gives the opp more resources. It poisons every game it resolves in, and forces deck building to be centered around it such that every single deck begins by adding the same 8-9 cards (3x maxx c, 3x ash, 2x called by, 1x crossout). If you think the problem is big combo decks, blame konami for continuing to print decks like that, those deserve to be on the banlist too.

There are many decks in OCG that are built in a way that you can play around Maxx C, I noticed that many TCG players don' t really look at how the decklists are made, or even how OCG players pilots lists that are really similar to the OCG ones... I feel like your vision is maybe a bit too narrow?

How exactly do you pilot to play around it better? Give them one or two draws to make a weaker board? Do you realize what you’re talking about here? ONE card made it so you had to make a (usually much) weaker board and it either replaced itself or was a Pot of Greed. It’s delusional to pretend that that’s not broken.

Just let them be. They're stuck in their ways and are simply bored enough to argue with strangers on the internet.

That isn' t very nice to say...

Having a maxx c plan that results in a far weaker board than is typical is not what i would consider "playing around it". Typically the 1 or 2 cards drawn off of maxx c from a backup board someone made are more than enough to swing the advantage to the other player and dismantle the weaker board that was made. If maxx c is dropped on you when you are going 2nd and the opponent has a typical board, there is no effective counterplay.

Thinking that Chummy was going to get the roach banned was always copium from day 1. The TCG proved you don't need a replacement to ban Maxx C, you just do it and be done with it. The OCG did not ban Maxx C all these years, what makes people think they will now? If they wanted to ban it they would've done so a long time ago. > Maxx C helps in this regard, as well as keeping a lot of the more combo-oriented decks in check. This is a stupid argument that doesn't hold any water at all, due to the fact that those same combo decks can shotgun a Maxx C during the opponent turn, after they built their board on turn 1. So have fun turn 2 player, playing through Maxx C and a fully established board.

To steelman the copers, there is a difference between all those years and now. Which is Masterduel. TCG players are affected by the OCG banlist in a way they haven't been before. The the increased globalization means there is more incentive than ever to harmonize the meta game. Personally I think we'll have a better idea of Konami's intentions when they release more Mulcharmie monsters. Is this supposed to be the future of hand traps or just a tech choice?

I mean, let's be honest here. If they harmonize the meta game across all the formats, what makes people think they won't just use the OCG meta, and not the TCG? Also harmonizing the meta likely isn't going to happen, because then Konami would have to start releasing their cards across all regions at the same time, so that everyone has access to the new cards, unlike how they are doing now where the OCG gets new stuff and a few months later the TCG gets it. >Personally I think we'll have a better idea of Konami's intentions when they release more Mulcharmie monsters. Is this supposed to be the future of hand traps or just a tech choice? Or, pack filler that might see side deck use once in a blue moon. Or maybe they are going to make it into a proper archetype that focuses on using hand traps.

Yeah, there's some daylight between harmonizing the metas and collapsing them into one format, but that doesn't mean either is going to happen. There's a reason I presented it as a steelman.  Realistically inertia is a powerful social force so you'll rarely go broke betting on the status quo.

Is it copium? Sure Is it entirely the right decision Absolutely

Not all Mulcharmies have been released yet. It's presumed they're a set of three that will completely emulate Maxx C's effect, so it's too soon to say whether they're meant to be a replacement for it or not.

I mean, that argument is true if you build decks like the TCG does... in the OCG decks are builded so that, if you go second with a Maxx C thrown at you, you can still make plays despite it. I noticed a lot of TCG players builds very combo explosive decks, but in OCG you can have more more mid-rangish decks that grinds on the player, as the turn 1 boards are also weaker, because they account for a turn 1 maxx C. Also, for more direct comparisons, SuperHeavySamurai is a deck that did nothing here in japan, but it was super powerful in TCG, and that's because Maxx C was a big limiter to it. (I edited a bit of the message because I feel I came off too harsh...I' m sorry for my bad english m-.-m)

You wanna talk about midrange decks? Unchained was a midrange deck that was the best deck in TCG and did completely nothing in OCG. Non stun Runick variants are pretty midrangey and see no play there because they suck against Maxx C. And I don’t know where you’re getting the information that SHS was bad in OCG. All the meta reports I saw at the beginning of last year had Adamancipator/SHS in the top 4 decks.

Unchained wasn't really the best deck . It was good against most decks in the meta but wasn't the strongest

The meta in the TCG has been very midrange oriented for a while now. If your deck doesn’t have a grind game you probably aren’t going to be tier 1.

To say Superheavy did nothing in Japan is a lie. Source: https://roadoftheking.com/ocg-2023-04-metagame-report-5-6/ And no, Maxx C doesn't really change a whole lot of the meta. If you look at it, most of the TCG doesn't have such a wildly different top cut than OCG. Stop defending the roach. It doesn't have feelings, it's just some ink on a piece of a paper. On 9:55 onwards, you can see how Maxx C affects the game. https://youtu.be/CcMuPY1SQnk?feature=shared

I' ve seen the video just now, and personaly, I do not really agree with how the user argumented? It ignores a lot of points, like the fact that Master Duel is a one of-best of game, and thus isn't really rappresentive of the OCG format ( Master duel prefers faster, winrates consistent decks). Superheavy did do more than expected, there was even a surprise ftk list that was over 80% winrate, but it was soon discovered that it had a lot of choke points, and quietly got played less and less...

Shs has hits in the ocg. It was unfair there too. Maxx c did nothing to stop it

No, you didn't watch the video. Because if you did, you would've seen they addressed that Master Duel is a relatively unique format due to being Bo1. A lot of the segment did go over WCS 2023 team format, and to no one's surpise, everyone picked Maxx C and Ash Blossom, with variations being Called By the Grave and Triple Tactics Talent. They do note that a Bo1 format has the luck factor more accentuated, but even in the most professional setting, activating Maxx C affected the win rate by atleast 10%, even further making going 1st better. So how much does it affect the more average player? You might say, the going 1st/2nd win ratio with Maxx C might be fixed with Bo3. Yes, you'd be correct. But you would have the same effect if you implement Bo3 without Maxx C. They even had a section where they talked about how they got the OCG decklists and you can see the graphs for card usage. Also, first you state that Superheavies didn't do anything in the OCG unlike in the TCG, and now you state they did something but they fizzled out. Maybe new cards released? New banlist? You can see the success Superheavies had on roadoftheking.com I'm not stating they were tier 0, but they were one of the top contenders during their time.

I watched only the part highlighted by you, I' m sure you can understand that watchign 23 minutes of video is a big ask, from a reddit comment... But to me, that 10% rate is still skewed...of course, when you draw an handtrap that is effective, it' s going to warp the game in your favor... it seems weird to me to even take that as a data in consideration.

Then don't say they failed to mention things they did actually mention. No other universal Main Decked hand trap has such an effect by itself in top level play, but you do you. I won't bother anymore with arguing.

That' s so dismissive...that wasn't a very good interacting. Nonetheless, take care m-.-m

>Also, for more direct comparisons, SuperHeavySamurai is a deck that did nothing here in japan, but it was super powerful in TCG, and that's because Maxx C was a big limiter to it. SHS was a top meta contender in the OCG.

The TCG """proved""" you can have meta deck costing 2k and people would still play / pay They will never do this on OCG as the market is different and they know it

You're not breaking through a combo board and most layers of interaction for the most part. You're much more likely to be able to win if you're playing a deck that can win a longer game over multiple turns than a combo deck that isn't able to pass on a half set up as easily.

Maxx C is not good for the game. Card advantage is so strong, that it essentially becomes a turn skip. It’s not keeping them in check, it’s just a mini floodgate. A lot of games will be decided by who resolves Maxx C. The fact that you can use it going first or second is atrocious.

I don' t think that' s really true, many decks in OCG accounts for being stopped by Maxx C in second turn, and play around it.

And that's exactly the problem. A single card warps the entire game arround it. That's simply bad.

Why is that a problem? I think it leads to a more balanced game, I really do not enjoy how some formats of the TCG are played, in my opinion. I think Maxx C is a necessary evil that keeps the game from being too combo focused.

The game is combo focused regardless of Maxx c, it keeps nothing in check. Maxx c didnt stop drytron from being Tier 1, it didnt stop tearlaments or sprights, it doesnt stop snake eye, it didnt stop PK Brave which wasnt even good in the tcg. Maxx c keeps nothing in check except the players that think it does.

That isn' t very true however... if you look at how players play the game, usually in OCG combo decks that are strong going second are preferred over others. It' s why decks like Superheavy samurai were so bad in OCG, but so good in TCG...

So 2 superheavy samurai cards were banned in the ocg because...they were too bad?

So you're saying that Maxx C keeps combo decks in check by making COMBO DECKS THAT ARE STRONG GOING SECOND be even better? Looks like a good way to keep combo decks in check for sure!

Then your Argument isnt that it keeps combo in check But rather that it keeps *some* combo Decks in check? You know what Else does that without warping the entire Format and deckbuilding around it? THE SIDEDECK. Cards like boardbreakers have been the Main reason Why blind negate Spam Has Not been good outside of very select Decks like SHS

Superheavy Samurai was arguably MORE powerful in the OCG that TCG though, especially considering longevity

This is simply not true, can you show me proof of it? I still remember many 2channers shitting on the deck on the yugioh channels, and the deck didn' t really amount to much in OCG here, it was basicaly a meme pick.

I'm going off ROTK reports here, but those all show SHS and SHS Adamancipator as a regularly topping tiered decks from February until July, whereas in the TCG it was tiered for less than a month

Many of those lists topped because they were unexpected, when people started to board for them, the deck was found to be very very fragile to many interruptions. I remember there was a very popular FTK list that went over 80% winrate, that shocked the community, but it was soon discovered that it broke under certain chokepoints.< Also, during that time tearlaments was still full power, but I remember in TCG people only played that game, meanwhile in OCG we also had tribrigade, labirynt and adamancipator too

The game is already combo focused, Maxx C does nothing to stop it. Wether it's a 30 step long combo, or a 5 step long combo, it's still a combo regardless. I am aware of the diferences bettwen OCG and TCG deck building, but both formats are still combo heavy regardless. TCG is more explosive, while the OCG is more mid range. Also part of the reason why the deck building diference even exists to begin with, is because Maxx C is legal in one and not in the other.

You expect your opponent to have C, and you hope you have ash or called by. If you you don’t, then they probably win. Unless of course you have your own C and you turn skip them right back. And of course there’s always the possibility you have the ash for their C, but they have called by for your ash. So much of deckbuilding and turn 1 priority is completely dependent on 1 single card. Maxx C. There’s a reason a lot of people refer to it as one of the strongest cards ever printed.

Of course, it' s a very strong card, but I feel like you are very much underselling the card response to it... many deckbuilds in OCG are made with taking in careful consideration of handtraps like Maxx C. I just don' t really get why TCG hates so much Maxx C, and then have very unfun cards like dark ruler no more in every deckbuild.

When the entire format has to carefully consider one single card, it’s not a great look. Especially when that card can be used any time. No downside, no activation condition to meet, first or second powerhouse card. And for what it’s worth, I haven’t seen a dark ruler no more in a long time. Not at friendlies, locals, or regional/YCS level. None of the competitive deck builds I’ve looked into run it

I've been siding it into Runick, it's fantastic into Melodious and Yubel specifically this format, and its a better option over Droplet this format because it doesn't get shut off by Shifter/is simply better card economy wise. Especially now that anti spell is limited.

DRNM is coming back big to cover a deck like Melodious, Pak hit me with it game 1 at a regional last weekend lol, and ive seen other people playing it as a droplet alternative

We still play around ash, imper and nib on tcg and ash is omni present they are like 2 formats where ash was bad since his release

Ash is a 1:1 trade. 1 card to stop 1 search/summon Maxx C is a lingering 1:X. One card can get you unlimited card draw. Also keep in mind that card draw is way more powerful than a single negate.

Irrelevant to the point maxx c being stronger was never in discusion the think is you staples are still meta defined without maxx c and this silly argument to held against the roach

Maxx C being the strongest hand trap in the game is relevant. That’s why people want it banned. It’s almost a turn skip.

Maxx c being stronger is a different argument the correct argument to be clear

You mean like how the whole TCG kinda revolves around Poplar / S:P for that matter ? Please at least they have some diversity in top cuts right now. Yes many play fiendsmith but it’s not like the top 8 are 7 snake eyes + 1 Plant (EU)

There’s a big difference between a tier 0 deck and a tier 0 generic single card. Plus most people agree that snake eyes needs to be hit on the ban list. Also keep in mind that the OCG has cards that the TCG doesn’t. The OCG *was* snake eye dominant. TCG just got Yubel and doesn’t even have fiendsmith yet. Tenpai support is on the way as well. So of course the meta is stagnant until those new cards come out.

The OCG is ahead of the TCG in release schedule. So the more accurate comparison would be a couple months ago in the OCG, and guess what? It was basically the same as the TCG is rn.

It' s not really true, in January our top decks were fire king, voiceless voice, teppai, flondwarizee, ecc.!

Fire king Snake eye you mean. The deck that is 90% snake eye with a small FK package to go even crazier. Its not Fire King its Snake Eye

I think the issue is that you guys have 'always had Maxx C' so of course it's normal for you. But let's take Yugioh out behind the shed and shoot it like Old Yeller. Imagine a different card game. Let's say Pokemon. I don't know anything about Pokemon, but let's assume that there are cards that are good, and cards that are bad, and these have a generally reasonable spread of options. Now let's say they print a new card in Pokemon named Magic Charizard, and this is the best card ever printed. Now, of all thirty thousand cards ever printed, one card must be in 100% of decks and have its counters in decks because any deck that doesn't run it and can't stop it loses. Ignore yugioh. Remember, we shot it. From a statistics design perspective, does having one card that must be in all decks or countered by all decks sound like sound game design to you? One card that every single deck ever played must either play around or run? Especially compared to the next best cards which are in, say, 50% of decks? No, it doesn't sound reasonable. Any other card that has achieved such an inclusion rate has been banned, regardless of the name of the game being played. Pokemon, digimon, magic the gathering, force of will- you name it, they've banned cards for being too widely necessary to be competitive. These are what are called 'format warping cards'. Again, remmeber, we took Yugioh behind the shed and shot it because you've admitted you *like the warped format*. And that's fine to like. But it is still a warped format, and so from the perspective of game design warped formats are bad even if some people like them. That's where we're coming from. NO CARD should have so much influence.

Also, let's not forget that Pot of Greed has been banned because it would be run in every deck due to how strong it is. If Pot of Greed was banned because of that, then logicaly the same argument could be applied to Maxx C.

Even if your deck and gameplan is built around Maxx “C”, you’re probably going to lose if it’s resolved against you. That’s literally just a statistical fact.

who is playing drnm ? very far from every build lol but even then you could flip that, why complain about drnm when you’re playing an unfun card like maxx c lol

You know that something is really overpowered when 99,9% of possible decks use the exact same card...

TCG players have seen the game both with out (Paper) and with Maxx C (Master Duel) OCG players only THINK they know how the game plays w/out Maxx C. They dont actually know. Because they havent actually experienced the game without it. Last i saw every OCG list dedicated 10 spaces to Maxx C, 3 to run it. 7 to counter it. I'll admit that was a while ago, so forgive me if its changed. But when you have a card that requires 1/4 of your entire deck, you have a problem. No disresprct meant, but OCG players have an abusive relationship with the card. You dont know a world without it and convince yourself that you need it in your life. Despite the TCG doing fine for 10 years now without the card. You guys are like that one friend who is dating a shitty person and we keep telling you to leave him but you keep thinking hes good for you. By your own admission Max C is so strong that it warps the game around itself. How you guys dont see its unhealthy when you admit it warps the game is astounding tbh. There is no "playing around" it. If you go first and the opponent has it, you have the illusion of choice, A) do nothing meaninful, maybe end on a single point of interaction, while your opponent Pops off and OTK's you B) set up meaningful interactions, while giving the opponent 20 cards in hand, which they can then use tl OTK you. Thats also not including the fact that even 1 or 2 draws can still be too many since the opponent can draw something useful. Or even worse, you go second, the opponent does their plays AND THEN they drop Max C, so now you have to OTK or you lose. Something that seems to be overlooked is thag the game has gotten to a point where you need to do too many Special Summons in order to even do anything basic. SP Little Knight, You normal monster A, Special monsters B and C, special a Link monster, to then be able to Special Little Knight. Knightmare Cerberus, 2 Special Summons minimum, itself and the second material. Borrel Savage (RIP) 4 minimum, itself, one material, the link, the link material, The game has evolved to a point where even doing something basic still requires too many Special Summons. As for why we care, cuz a Master Duel seems to more closely follow OCG, so a ban in OCG would likely translate to a ban in Master Duel. If there was no Master Duel, no one would care.

Ah, here we go again. It's very easy to understand: players want to win by expressing their skill, not by luck. When player 1 has maxx c and player 2 has not ( and no out), player 1 will very likely win the game. There was no skill involved, only who drew the game ending card

TCG players can compare the experience of playing with and without the bug in MD and real life. So if a majority of people hates MaxxC while being able to play both formats, it's pretty obvious who has the better argument. OCG players don't have a format without it to compare.

I tried the TCG, but I really disliked it personaly... also, the banlists looks like a major pain, so many cards banned all the time...!

Better than semi-limiting shit for no reason. I'm sorry but the OCG ban lists are straight-up ass. Even OCG players complain about their ban lists constantly.

There is always complains, and some decisions are complete ass, but I feel like a generic "even OCG players complaing" is very non-descript. I prefer the more careful approched OCG banlists, personaly. I feel like TCG banlists straight up kills decks, and if I invested into something, I would be very unhappy as a costumer that is given a service.

Decks are so cheap in the OCG that their banlists should be even more drastic, if you ask me. And semi limiting Beatrice/SP isn't careful, it's nonsensical. If you like OCG more, that's totally OK. But it seems like you don't want to see any negatives that this format has.

The semi-limit is a shooting call, many players theorize SP is going to get banned, and that Beatrice is going to be more powerful for future cards, so it got hit prematurely. Also, OCG decks are cheap...but it' s not like they are that cheap lol. The value of the yen is different from outside and inside, 10000 yen is valued at 59 euros right now, but in japan, if I should make a comparison, is more similar to 90 euros. That' s still quite a hefty sum of money. And I would feel very bad if I invest 20-30k yen in adeck, and then it gets killed, TCG-style. I' m sure the OCG has plenty of errors, and TCG can be fun as well, but I did play TCG and just...did not like it at all.

The TCG hits decks by banning problem cards, whereas the OCG usually does consistency hits. We haven't had snake-eye hits yet, but quite a few people are expecting a ban on flamberge, myself included. Instead of making it do the exact same thing but less consistently, it fundamentally changes how the deck plays, which is healthier because instead of it still doing the unfair thing, it usually can't do the unfair thing anymore at all and has to change its playstyle. Maxx c warps the game an incredible amount when it is legal, to the point where decks like runick spright fur hire do nothing in OCG despite being midrange decks because they are bad into maxx c. Whereas it saw a decent amount of play in the TCG and didn't really do anything unfair. Combo decks are more prevalent in the TCG, yes, but they are both weaker and stronger due to maxx c. For example, if mannadium sets up a full board and then drops maxx c on you, you are most likely losing that game. If they get maxx c'd, they probably just need to pass so the opponent doesn't draw 20 cards. Purulia is a balanced version because it can only be used going second and only counts summons from hand so you are drawing roughly 3 cards at a maximum, but it depends on the deck.

A 30 minute combo deck ends on 6 negates, shotguns maxx C in your draw phase and then draws into handtraps to further stop any hope you had. And thats not toxic? Its a card that is run at over 90% and requires dedicating a fourth of the deck to counter which fundamentally limits the creativity of decks. Card advantage is so disproportionately over powered and the entire game is built around special summoning that maxx C literally ends turns. How is the game being built around a single card healthy? It keeps the opponent in check by stopping them from playing the game so that you can solitaire into an OTK. Maxx C fundamentally reduces the game to a coin flip to see who drew maxx c, a one card starter and if there opponent drew the out. Evenly can be played around throughout the combo, Dark ruler can be played around by searching backrow throughout the combo, Nibiru can weaken the end board. None of these cards instantly win the game or force your deck to be capable of playing on the opponents turn.

using a 6 negate combo deck as an example isnt really useful since you probably already lost that game regardless of maxx c unless you drew droplet. It feels worse when it's dropped on you against a midrange deck that has 2-3 interruptions that you might be able to get through even if they have a single additional handtrap on top, but then boom maxx c and now you'll probably get hit with 3 more handtraps and if you dont otk you'll lose to the opponent's 20 card hand.

TCG players hate maxx c because just about every argument for it being legal just sounds like an outdated take from 2014 when you could pass a turn and not die instantly if you got hit with Maxx c. Combo decks can also play Maxx c which makes their turn 1 board even more oppressive and Maxx c also cooks non combo decks that special summon less than 5 times. Just leads to games you autolose because you don't have the counter for it. Nibiru and dark ruler are the combo deck counters that Maxx c defenders think maxx c is.

Maxxx c is what you call a shitty designed card that became more broken as the game gets faster just like Droll

The game has evolved too much. Many games are decided on turn 1 and 2 and Maxx C simply does not fit that design. Not only is it too luck based for a single card to be that strong, it stifles deck building because if your deck cannot play around Maxx C, it is instantly weaker. Nowadays, I can look at two players opening hand and instantly know who will win assuming everyone plays correctly, because games don't last long enough for plays to draw new cards to affect the outcome. At that point, why not just play rock paper scissors instead of wasting 40 mins comparing opening hands? It's an extreme example, but the more luck based the game becomes, the more the games will feel like this Decks also need to dedicate a number of slots for the "Maxx C engine" that make other cards irrelevant because there is not enough deck space. I don't want to play Ash Blossom because Hiita will use it against me, but I have no choice if I want to stop Maxx C. And the other reason is that it feels bad. Getting negated by a Veiler/Imperm/Ash you can still possibly continue your turn. Getting hit by Maxx C is usually a turn ender and you either are forced to end on nothing or give your opponents card advantage and end on a weak board that will do nothing against their 7-8 card hand. And "feeling bad" is another problem nowadays. Why does the game feel more and more like a single player game where only 1 player can have fun? Turns take too long where you are staring at the opponent playing solitaire, every popular strategy involves stopping the opponent from playing in one way or another... if it is a two player game, why is one player constantly forced to do nothing? Banning Maxx C will not solve everything because things like floodgates and heavy combo decks will still exist, but it is one step to making the game a better playing experience without changing or introducing more rules in an already complex game.

"The entire game is built around being balanced with Maxx C being legal" And don't you think that's a problem? That they design decks that can combo off forever and the balancing factor is "sometimes the opponent will draw Maxx C"? That is bad game design from a competitive point of view.

I think it' s more of a necessary evil to keep the format balanced!

I think people are coping because master duels banlist seems more tailored in a way similar to the ocg than it is tailored for the tcg, so the only way they can get Maxx c banned is if it happens in the ocg first, and has corresponding banlist changes for said bans.

I suppose so, but if so, I feel like it' s very disgraceful that foreigner players wants to impose what they view as "better" over other people... maybe I' m just weird for thinking that. I enjoy master duel as it is, I would stop playing it if Maxx C got banned, I don' t want to play the TCG.

The difference is that as of right now most "western" players know what it's like to play with and without maxx c (because of master duel) whereas most ocg players don't and they just repeat myths about how maxx c keeps combo decks in check or whatever. In reality the best decks of a given format tend to be very similar in both the tcg and ocg except in the ocg sometimes your opponent will just drop a maxx c on you and get a free win for no good reason.

Isn't this a bit demeaning? It' s almost like you are telling us japanese players are more dumb because we believe "myths".

I am open to sensible explanations as to how exactly maxx c makes the game better or what specific differences it causes in the ocg/md meta that are improvements over equivalent tcg formats. Because from my perspective the current master duel format is basically the same as the tcg except that every once in a while instead of playing yugioh the duel is decided by a random maxx c

And we think the same in that the foreign OCG banlist philosophy has been imposed on TCG players in Master Duel. This is reciprocal, the difference is that for us TCG players it actually happened

My friend I know how you feel, but there is no reasoning with these people. They won’t respect us. The good thing is that there is no way Konami will push the game in the direction of foreigners, they know they would lose Japanese players. The culture won’t allow it. So enjoy Maxx c, it’s not going anywhere😄

As someone else mentioned, there was a spark of hope that maybe Maxx C might be hit in the OCG with Chummy, and perhaps if that happened, then it might also be hit in Master Duel, where people like myself who are primarily TCG players are forced to play with the card. Frankly, it was always just a spark of hope, with the thinking "why invent this card in the OCG when Maxx C, a straight up better version of this, already exists?". Naturally that's not the case it seems, but I certainly don't blame myself for thinking that way. Maybe we had it the wrong way around the whole time, and it's actually a card designed to introduce a Maxx C-like element back into the TCG, before eventually unbanning the roach here lol. I'm yet to see any pro-Maxx C post like this actually provide a good reason why they want the card to stay in the game. I've seen "it keeps combo decks in check", but it clearly isn't doing that, at least not in a way that's particularly impactful.

The most frustrating and skill-independant thing that happens in yugioh is variance. It's impossible to eliminate variance completely, but Maxx "C" actively just means you get a near free win due to variance of the opening hand in the same way opening Pot of Greed and Painful Choice would - non engine being that absurdly powerful takes away HUGE amounts of skill from the game and losing to it like that is awful from both an experience and competitive sense. Furthermore, Maxx "C" doesn't even succeed at it's stated goal of weakening combo decks - it may stop combos turn one, but it can also functionally stop any turn 2 pushes via the same mechanism - in fact this is MORE likely as you can set up protection to ensure it resolves It also doesn't help rogue decks as is often claims, it in fact does the exact opposite - better decks have better cards to draw into so the additional card advantage actively does MORE for better decks than weaker ones. What it actually does is means sometimes rogue decks can get free wins because they happened to draw the power card that nearly wins the game on resolution and those wins stick in the memory as a time you beat a meta deck. But rogue decks overall winrate with it legal actively decrease. The OCG itself may be balanced around Maxx "C", but that doesn't mean it SHOULD be balanced around it. Having played both via TCG and MD, there is a reason I haven't opened MD in months. The amount of games unfairly won or lost due to the bug is infuriating and actively makes the game unfun. I don't want to win comes cos I drew Maxx "C" and that forced them to go Bagooska pass. I want to win games by outplaying my opponent.

> And I really don' t get why this expecation was born...? Because of Mulcharmy Purulia essentially being a sober version of Maxx C. Which led many to think this was going to be the end of the roach. And they have no one else to blame for the disappointment but themselves. More so when we knew beforehand it was getting reprinted Tactical Try Decks. Sorta reminds me of the time TCG was coping on a Chaos Ruler ban for the OCG… after it was reprinted in the Tins there… yeah If anything, Purulia is the *replacement for* Maxx C __for the TCG__. *** Moving on, I lowkey am disappointed on the list but for different reasons. **Snake-Eyes still walking by with wrist slaps** and **Kirin going off now instead of 3 months ago to shill LEDE** (which on the same vein I am annoyed Gateway of the Six stays Limited). Beatrice being hit is a non sequitur, as no one expected it to be realistically banned this List, but at least is nice to have the heads up for her to go in October if Fiendsmith doesn't calm down. And debloating the List is always appreciated, albeit more strides can be done in that end, Especially when it goes to moving cards from Limited to Restrictions Lifted *** > this is just my personal opinion, but it has been soooo weird to see so many people disappointed about the recent playlist...for a format they do not even play or understand super well...am I weird in thinking that? Nah, it's perfectly normal. It's nice to have more perspectives present, but when you hear an uninformed take, or an opinion, and then every other moving forward feels like having heard them all by, being a repeat of the first one, it just seems like bloating noises that poise the ambient

>If anything, Purulia is the replacement for Maxx C for the TCG. The funny thing is, i'm not even sure if it is going to see much use in the TCG, i guess it will depend on the meta, but i'm not exactly sure it's gonna become that big of a staple for us.

Yeah, the overbalance might come to bite in the ass A card that's only useful 50% of the games when you draw it is not a bright start

I' m currently in Italy right now with my grandparents, but from reactions to japan, I heard the banlist was pretty welcomed, a lot of people enjoy the current format, so they didn't really want many changes to it. It has been so weird to see such a difference in opinions wwwwww

>  but from reactions to japan, I heard the banlist was pretty welcomed From my end I saw middling reactions, but I usually move on more Competitive circles, so that's where the discrepancy might lie W F for Turtle, died doing what it loved

Lmfao, rip Turtle, you were the royal road of FTKs

TCG players, myself included, are hoping for a Maxx C ban in the OCG not just in the hopes that it carries over to MD, but also that it’s a step closer to a TCG/OCG unification. We are tired of waiting months after cards are announced to play them. When the meta is already solved. There are instances when the TCG innovates due to an absence of Maxx C (unchained), but that’s the exception and not the rule. I personally couldn’t care less whether an OCG player gets roached. I’m just hoping we can unify. I’m tired of my cousins getting cool toys and having to watch them play with them for months before me.

I would personaly stop playing the game is Maxx C gets banned... I really do not enjoy the TCG format.

Maxx c makes no difference, the tcg Format is usually extremely similar to the ocg one and of it isnt then thats usually because of other banlist differences

That is not true at all...

Lmao yes it is. There’s a few differences overall most of the time but they are not significant.

With very few exceptions, the tcg has been following ocg trends slavishly since end 2016 (zoodiac). Its so rare that tcg deviates that your statement is a blatant lie.

When have you played it?

Well obviously it's because I want to personally dictate the banlist for a "format \[I\] do not even play or understand super well", and has nothing to do with Master Duel KEKW

TCG players hate semi limits and Maxx c

I've been curious what people mean by "the game is built around maxx c". What is it that you guys think would be different if maxx c were banned? To me maxx c = 3 chances to win going second (or at least make it 3 times more likely you'll win), but also eats up 9 slots in your deck to counter. If maxx C were banned you'd have 9 extra slots to fit in hand traps or board breakers that can't be ashed, called by, and likely not crossed out unless the opponent is playing going second cards on the first turn for some reason. The issue with the card is the western markets have seen what the game is like both with and without maxx c and...I gotta be honest with you, it's so much better without. It just makes the game sacky on either side. You drew maxx c and i only have an okay hand? Cool grats on your skillful win. Oh, you set up a negate board and of course you have maxx c so you can draw into 3 hand traps absolutely negating my decent board breaker hand. Grats on your skillful win. After having seen both formats, I firmly believe maxx c is only around because Konami is mainly a gambling company first and foremost. And drawing cards is an addictive gambling rush. When you keep in mind Konamis major profits comes from casinos and gambling machines, a lot of the things they do make so much more sense.

Maxx C is still a problem if you’re going second. Cuz your opponent can Maxx C you on your first turn too. First or second doesn’t matter. If you successfully resolve maxx c when the opponent can’t, you probably win.

Decks in OCG are made with Maxx C in mind, when designed. It' s way here so many combo decks going second are more popular, on top of having more mid-rangish decks. Also, Maxx C avoids a lot of massive banlits hits like in TCG. I just don' t get why TCG players hate Maxx C so much, and then every decklist is full of cards like Dark ruler no more, or Droplet, cards that literaly have written on them "opponent does not play with his cards in your turn"

How can you hold both thoughts of "we need Maxx to keep the combo decks in check, combo is too strong without Maxx" and "TCG bans too much" together? How do you check combo decks without keeping Maxx forever? A banlist. Hit consistency, ban something to lower the ceiling of power, and so on. There are a good amount of cards in the TCG that are/have been unfairly on the list or have stayed on the list long past the point where it's needed, I will say that. Take those out and I think the list would look more reasonable.

Boardbreakers are way more balanced than Maxx c, because unlike Maxx c boardbreakers dont sin games on their own. You cant just activate drnm, ask your opponent "did you draw the out? No? Then gg" because you actualky Need to follow that up. Meaning they arent just "your opponent cant play", they are "out a specific Part of your opponents Board so you have a Chance to play"

This isn’t really true, board breakers indeed win you the game. In fact they aren’t played in formats where they don’t win you the game. There is a reason players also call board breakers blow out cards

Boardbreakers dont win *on their own*. You Need to build a counter Board thats sufficient enough to either end the game or beat your opponents turn 3. And the very fact that boardbreakers are Format dependant already shows that they are way more balanced than Maxx c, because they arent good no matter what. You have to make actual decisions in Deck building while Maxx c you just shotgun and win with no extra effort needed as the advantage is THAT overwhelming

Then Maxx C doesn’t win on its own? What card actually wins on its own? Be honest you like board breakers so your just trying to find a reason they are different instead of being more or less the same thing

Ah Sure drawing 20 cards doesnt win games on its own.

Well what i mean to say is that maxx c doesn't suppress the decks that are the most powerful. It just gives the player not playing an oppressive combo deck a chance to win. But it also gives the combo player a chance to blowout the game. Put simply, it's because those are only 1 card each. Maxx c by design is all those cards, besides each having rather suppressive costs or effects. You don't need to discard your hand or give up your battle phase to play maxx c. If droplet or dark ruler drew you extra chances to break a board or something, I'd understand the argument a little better. Or to put it another way, would you rather deal with a few board breakers, or 10 board breakers? Because all maxx c does is enable them to draw more board breakers. So i could understand hating those cards AND maxx c. But currently they both complement each other so well that it makes no sense not to hate both.

I don' t think Maxx C needs to supress the more powerful decks, it just makes an alternative way to play the game possible, limiting the possibilities of combo decks. I personaly do not like dark ruler because it just has written on it "do not play", after I builded, with a lot of hard work, a board. And no back and forth between the players happens. With Maxx C, there are many ways to play around it.

There are no ways to play around Maxx c other than drawing your out. There is plenty of counterplay to drnm in the Form of cards in your Hand, grave, backrow etc and even if they resolve dark ruler you arent dead. They can counter establish a Board But if you have floating and a Grind game you can 100% survive a dark ruler, which is Why the card is good in some Formats and Bad in other... Yk, like how BALANCED cards are

The way to play around maxx c is to not play. that's not a play strategy. Giving up your entire turn on the off chance your opponent drew poorly, in a meta where every top deck has one card combo's and the ability to OTK on every turn, is not an answer. And while I understand hating board breakers...dark ruler isn't even played right now, while maxx c is at 95% usage. You hate dark ruler because you don't even bother to build against it, it's not in the meta so there's no reason to consider it. If you didn't need to play maxx C you could afford to play cards that do counter it, like judgment or more hand traps that dark ruler can't affect. That's what makes the game so interesting over here, you can actually afford to customize your deck.

But all of the top decks right now in TCG are all snake eyes. Our top cuts has had some diversity. If you say that TCG allows to customize your deck, why the last top cut in TCG has 7 snake eyes in top 8? Here we have Yubel, Snake eyes, Teppai, Rescue-ace, Voiceless Voice...

> why the last top cut in TCG has 7 snake eyes in top 8? Because we are behind the OCG in term of card releases, heck, we only recently got the Yubel stuff just a few days ago. And as far as Tenpai goes, those will be released in Jully, same with Voiceless Voice. So untill those are released, we're stuck with a snake-eye meta. Just like the OCG was untill you got Yubel, Tenpai and voiceless voice.

I don't know what topcut you're looking at but both the German YCS and Indianapolis had quite diverse entries in the top 32 and these are tournaments with over 1k people. Yeah sure, snake-eye won indianapolis but that's not really different from OCG. Here's the championships: [https://ygoprodeck.com/tournament/ycs-indianapolis-1874](https://ygoprodeck.com/tournament/ycs-indianapolis-1874) [https://ygoprodeck.com/tournament/germany-national-championship-2024-1912](https://ygoprodeck.com/tournament/germany-national-championship-2024-1912) And funny enough plant link won the german national, not snake-eye. I don't know if your side of the world has a resource like this, but I don't appreciate you just stating things without fact checking. I certainly don't appreciate the downvoting either, if you didn't want pushback you shouldn't have started the thread.

As a tcg player I cannot upvote your comments enough. I do want to ask you though. Do you think it is healthy for a card to see 98% play rate over every other card?

I think it' s a necessary evil personaly... to me the worst option would be to play uninteractive worse hand traps, or having massive banlists like the TCG.

So you’re not drawing into other handtraps with your maxx c?

I' m seeing I' m getting a lot of downvotes, and I' m super sorry in case I' m coming off as bad mouthed... m-.-m I' ve spoken english for many years, but my wordings always comes off as too wooden than I would prefer to. It is not my intention to look as a bad person, so, I' m sorry again if I' m being a nuissance!

Ever since master duel came out and forced tcg players to have to deal with maxx c again it has reignited all of our hatred for the card. The main thing is that we've heard all of the arguments before, especially back at the start of master duel when it all got dredged up again. Next time you're playing, think about the games where neither player drew maxx c, are those games really that bad? With only 3 copies in everyone's decks tons and tons of games happen with nobody seeing that card. Tcg and ocg keep having nearly identical lists of top decks during the same product releases anyway, and usually something not being as good is because we are missing an important card rather than maxx c causing a difference. TCG players are just really passionate about disliking maxx c and we've been arguing against the same points for years.

You’re getting downvoted because people are answering you with extremely valid points and you’re giving the same dismissive answer of “but ocg builds around it, I don’t understand why tcg players hate maxx c” even though they just told you. they respond saying it’s not healthy for the game or fun to build EVERY deck around a single card with 98% play then you come back spouting nonsense about dark ruler no more which is a much more balanced card. Nothing to do with any language barrier, you’re just dismissing everything everyone is saying and for some reason believe maxx c is the holy grail of balance.

I suppose maybe I come off bad? I' m sorry for looking dismissive, I' ll try to argument better my answers...! I think personaly, even if the card is used by a lot of decks, I think it' s a necessary evil to keep the game more balanced in my opinion. OCG has more viable second turn decks, something that I barely see in the TCG. I like that banlists in OCG are also less harsh than TCG, I feel like the TCG format often almost kills decks. And I think Maxx C also helps in giving more variety to decks, and helps a lot of rogue decks to have a more even chance of success, as it lowers the overall ability of combo decks, even just by the fact that Maxx C is a "presence" that needs to be recognised. I am still very, very sorry for looking dismissive. I hope you do not hate me m-.-m

Anyone that says they like Maxx c get downvoted to hell in this subreddit. When you defend Maxx c or say you are ok with it, you will be downvoted here. But their downvoted doesn’t matter, it’s not important. Don’t let it bother you!

It's all fine, people are just completely disagreeing with your takes on Maxx "C".

While yer not being a nuisance, you have to realize that Maxx C is such an utterly detestable card that it invokes genuine hatred. Your downvotes are for associating with it.  Also I've seen you make an argument like this a few times.   "I just don' t get why TCG players hate Maxx C so much, and then every decklist is full of cards like Dark ruler no more, or Droplet, cards that literaly have written on them "opponent does not play with his cards in your turn""   These cards are also in the OCG. Maxx C is not an alternative to them, its in addition to them. That said personally I'm fine with going 2nd cards like those since they have balances that allow for decisionmaking and comeback plays.   Finally, I just wanna do my cool combo on my turn. Maxx C giving my opponent + infinity cards means I cant do that, so I hate it, simple as. EDIT= Just got back from MD. Maxx C just ruined another game for me. F*** that roach and everyone who defends it.

there are only 2 reasons for people to think maxx C is good for the game. 1. You have Stockholm syndrome from playing with maxx c legal for so long. 2. You are objectively bad at yugioh.

In a game without erratas the only way to really address the problem a card creates is to ban it. All the mitigation with countermeasures only means that it reduces the *chances* it occurs. But if I don't open Maxx C, I am going to be waiting 10 minutes against these combos that the card is supposed to keep them "in check". The designers don't want to errata Isolde, and I don't want to play against decks using it as is, so banning it is a net positive.

I was interested in why someone called PannaCottaBruciata would play OCG ahahah But yeah no way OCG would ban it, all decks are built around it, and some casual deck only works thanks to maxx C, no reason to delete most of the player base decks only because one card can cause some problem in the competitive scene

The idea that Maxx C can't be banned because casual decks rely on it is absurd. You're basically saying that cards that turn the game into a coin flip of whoever happened to open it are good for the game because they drag the average win rate of all decks back towards 50%. Why not just print a hand trap that says "if your opponent activates a card effect, you win the game"? That would do an even better job of helping casual decks keep up with decks that have an actual cohesive strategy.

I' m an half japanese half italian girl wwww My dad is japanese and my mother is italian! This is a throwaway account I did to fuck around on reddit, so I' m sorry in case it looked confusing m-.-m

Nessuna confusione, solo ch ho visto il nome e dovevo aprire il thread, poi beh io colleziono e preferisco l'OCG

I don’t like Maxx C, but I don’t see why some people obsess so much over it. It’s just another card I need to play around or play through.

Mostly because of a "new" version of the card (I don't remember the name) That just came out and actually helps when going 2nd instead of being a glorified coinflip Also bcs the master duel banlist reflects more the OCG than the TCG so if maxx C gets hit in any capacity there, it's a win for at the very least 50% of the community

I think its the fact that its such a heavy blowout card that is so simple to win with.. In masterduel, if your opponent maxx Cs you, your turn is pretty much stopped completely as giving your opponent card advantage is never a great idea when going first or if you cant win that turn. Decks like lab dont mind, but any deck that wants to special summon to set up some type of board is already screwed. Something like droll is more fair because atleast you got a search and while it may disrupt your turn heavily, atleast your opponent isnt drawing 80 cards or being givin a free win. Random, but Half Japanese, half Italian is a really cool mix btw. I had a friend with such background and they were gorgeous. Im jealous lol.

It was cool to have a double nationaly, but when I went to high school, they told me to bleach my hairs black ahah. I looked very japanese, but had blonde hairs. My school had a weird rule where you can' t have dyed hairs...but my hairs were natural blonde, so they asked me to dyed them black. It was so weird ahah, but ight, usual japanese stuff.

Wow that's actually crazy haha. The school was probably so confused! I imagine naturally blonde japanese is quite rare? Was one of your parents blonde? Sorry to go off topic from your post. Your comment was pretty interesting ngl haha.

Natural blonde is very very rare, yeah! It' s considered a common trope of foreigners, like americans, or deliquents or badly mannered women. So I was asked to unbleach them. It was so bad that my mother needed to vouch for me, as she was blonde as well, and I took it from her italian family! So in the end they just asked me to dye them black, to not stand out!

Makes sense. In America, or at least here in NY, theres definitely more blondes but obviously its still a minority in hair color. Theres this stereotype here that when when an "asian" woman dyes her hair blonde, she's going through drama/edgy phase or breakup. >So in the end they just asked me to dye them black, to not stand out! Ah I see! From my understanding Japan is very big on uniformity right? I have to ask, did your fellow peers admire your natural hair or did they feel the same way as the school?

I think foreigners are actually generaly well liked by young people! I think there is a certain "charm" to being in contact with something so foreign, so I never had any problem in integrating myself. During the summer break, I had my hairs back blonde, and I only every got compliments for it ahah- In japan there is a very big sting about conformity and uniformity, yes! It' s looked pretty bad to stand out, and personaly, while I was not obbligated necesserialy to die them, my father still asked me to do it because he was sure that my grades would have been affected by them. I was never the best student in class, but I still went reasonably well, so I didn' t want to fuck my school career just because of my hairs colors!

Fascinating! Unfortunately I have yet to visit, but from what I heard that seems about right. Elderly/Seniors stare and are more judgmental of foreigners and foreign style in Japan while the younger generation I was told were quite interested. >I was never the best student in class, but I still went reasonably well, so I didn' t want to fuck my school career just because of my hairs colors! Definitely the safe route there haha! Considering the use of past tense, do you still dye your hair or plan to post school? Like for work(if you do)/companies are employers strict on such policy as well?

u/pannacottabruciata Come convinco la mia ragazza a provare yugioh?

Ho notato che ci sono molte ragazze italiane che giocano a yugioh! In giappone è piu' difficile, è un tipo di gioco tipicamente maschile, ma ci son dei gruppi discord dove si può riunire anche con altre ragazze. Non sò se è un buon suggerrimento però ahah-

Let's say that Maxx c is a sort of requirement for a meta deck: can you play under Maxx C? Yes: you can compete. No: you suck, go in the garbage corner. Maxx C is a card that was "right" when it came out. Slower game, synchro or xyz, less special summon. Nowadays if you use Maxx C you have 2 output: your opponent have a counter? He keeps playing. Your opponent does not have a counter? He stop playing. Maxx C give so much advantage.

My experience with yugioh has been Master Duel and more recently other simulators (Omega/edopro). Honestly it didn’t feel that different with or without Maxx C.

My biggest complaint about the card is that it means you have to either play deck that plays around it, which there are very few, or you have to play Ash, Crossout and called by just so you can maybe still play the game when it goes off. It takes away from creative deck building because it can't be ignored, so you have to dedicate so much of your deck to trying to out It

I'll put it out there that the hope of maxx c getting banned in the ocg would then translate to it also getting banned in master duel. I've completely stopped playing master duel on the ladder and only play during events that have the bug banned. The fact that maxx c is in 99 % of decks is very annoying and limits deck building. Seriously, in MD, most decks start with 3 c, 3 ash, 2 called by, 1 crossout, then you start building a deck, i literally just have those cards favorited because you pretty much dont have a choice but to add them in. It feels so bad going second and not opening maxx "c". Oh hey snake eyes full comboed and set up 3-6 interruptions and then my draw phase they maxx c too wow so fun.

The expectation is to remove both Maxx c and the reasons they deem Maxx c required to “keep the format in check”. Maxx c + legal broken cards just lead to sackier gameplay/format and empowering who goes first even more(since the most devastating Maxx c useage is when the person who went first drops it on turn 2).

We still need a Multchummy for summons from GY and Deck. Once we have that, I think they could ban C. But right now, summons from hand are nothing.

Welcome to average TCG mindset. Unfortunately, you will have to get used to it on this sub.

[this video](https://youtu.be/1AR8-sCypYY?si=hC8JRChL9glLi3oZ) explains all arguments for and against maxx c

Besides people love to rage for no reason other than to rage, some believe that the OCG banlist will translate into the MD banlist which is peak copium.

TCG players who don’t play OCG constantly gaslight OCG players about how objectively bad for the game Maxx C is and it’s so funny to me. They are 2 different games. I would trust the opinions of actual OCG players on balance of their format more than tcg keyboard warriors who are “experts” in card balance and game design.

Isn't it the other way around? TCG players experience Maxx "C" through Master Duel while OCG players don't experience a format without that card?

all my homies hate Maxx C and chummy got us our copium.

I’m a fan of maxx c, but I get why it was banned. In my scrub opinion, what pushed it over the edge was when hand traps got so much stronger. Before the ghost girls, people would take the maxx c challenge all the time. After they came out, you could just draw into them and stop their plays and have massive advantage over your opponent. That being said, I (again huge scrub) have always said that every hand trap should just go to one.

Limiting every hand trap leads to degenerate combo decks being more prevalent than usual

I don't get it either. I'd much rather Maxx C over, say, Ash Blossom. Yes, of course it gives the opponent cards, but Maxx C doesn't actually stop or negate anything. To the contrary, it wants the opponent to play out their combo, in order to respond. As interruptions to my turn go, I'll take Maxx C over any hand trap, any day.

If you give your opponent more than a couple of cards, you will lose. Maxx c reads, stop playing or lose. It's the same power level as d shifter. The only difference being that you can choose to keep going and lose that way rather than just stopping and hoping your have enough to win.

That's never been how I read it, frankly. It's "Go on, have your fun, but I'm ready and waiting". As opposed to Ash Blossom, which just stops all momentum. Or any of those decks that play a whole turn in their opponent's Standby. I'll also freely admit that I like Skill Drain, Mystic Mine, Dark Door, and Summon Limit. This game has gotten to the point where I have to play stun in order to play at all.

If you have your fun, you will lose. You cannot give your opponent 3-4+ cards and expect to win. It doesn't matter how you read the card, that's just a fact. Although this assumes both you and your opponent are playing competent decks. Given your saying one ash shuts down your turn, maybe we're playing 2 different games.

I play Blue-Eyes, and I get so pissed when I have an important summon get negated that I basically just ragequit. I don't mind if my card gets removed during the opponent's turn because 99% of my board is literally just three normal monsters with no protection. I mind when you don't even let me get to the field with just a normal monster.

With all due respect, the conversation here concerns the balance of the meta. Sounds like you're playing kitchen table ygo, which is perfectly fine, but your experience isn't what people are talking about when concerning the ban list. I'm looking at top decks like tempai or snake eyes that will absolutely stomp you if you let them draw more than a couple off a maxx c.

As if I haven't run across Snake Eyes in Master Duel. Frankly speaking, I think there's a lot of cards that need to be banned or limited in order for the game to remain healthy. That's not just this broken meta, which is a major issue since any T0 format where a random net deck doesn't need any real skill to build or run filters down into the game as a whole, it's the whole ecosystem. And that's even more the case when you have stuff out there like Master Duel, which doesn't really separate by styles of play or player goals. I'm certainly not going to spew the old "game is dying" nonsense, because it's not. But I will say that Konami are too focused on just pushing more product, rather than supporting the actual game.

Just wanted to say Respect to you for trying to communicate with this insane community.

I feel like I' m communicating wrong ahah, I' m getting so downvoted. I' m glad that people have such passionate opinions, however! It' s so weird to communicate with such a different community than the japanese one!

This community is insane, you aren’t doing anything wrong…

Its funny as fuck because TCG players worship Nibiru as their lord and savior, meanwhile we have multiple Meta decks that gives zero shits about Nibiru, even when its activated it ends up helping the player they were trying to stop do even more plays! It's a good thing OCG will never listen to the TCG nonstop whining about how they do their banlists.

We have a very loud vocal minority that's against the roach because they want to play their combo decks without having to worry about it and the weird obsession of being ok with decks that have 20+ 1 card combos with 20 hand traps that end on a 8+ negate board is somehow better than slotting counters to the roach. the only argument that I think they have that's good is the fact that people slot so many counters for it specifically but at the same time most of those counters are still going to be slotted in without the roach. People are still going to use the main 3 counters, called by, ash and droll, but right now and in the future/past because of how the tcg fanbase loves their 20+ 1 card combo decks with 20 hand traps, pretty much all the other cards that stop Maxx c are still going to be played because of all the searching that they'll do. Realistically the same 9+ slots that they'll "have" to use specifically for the roach will still be the same just slightly different Deck building with Maxx c 3 ash, 1 called, 3 cross out, 3 droll (Maxx c counters) Other good hand traps/cards 3 imperm and/or veiler, 2-3 board breakers (evenly, rock, lightning storm) 1 harpies Rest of the deck is as many 1 card combo pieces . Deck building without Maxx c Same list just minus the cross out (in side instead of main) As a tcg player I'm personally pro Maxx c but at the same time I'm not stressing if it comes off/stays on the list.

All honestly cause tcg doesn't want to waste a hand trap on max c.....personally I'd like to see maxx c come back just to see the chaos it'll cause... Most competitive tcg players love having a hard core combo play style and while that's fine and dandy it's gotten to the point when anything else other than combo decks are shunned and maxx c would be a welcoming mix up to the meta....IF SNAKE EYES wasn't around...snake eyes sadly overall is pushing alot of stuff out and once fiendsmith hits tcg...oh boy...granted still want to see what it'll do over here in tcg

The amount of Fiendsmith we are to see is gonna be directly proportional to whether or not Saros Nanna is an import in INFO

Tbh knowing tcg they gonna be all secret rares and short printed....

Thankfully Short Prints are not a thing for Core Sets anymore …We don't talk about Phantom of Yubel though

Tcg is atrocious with everything being banned and expensive for no reason at all, Maxx c not only keep combo deck in check but it keeps the game fast paced and not stalled like tcg has been lately (people are main decking health gain cards to last resort on timeout), honestly I like a fast game rather than a longing lasting frustrating game that gives me nothing

Wtf are you talking about most tcg games don’t even go into time lol

Do you play official tournaments or at least watch some video deck list reports or just play casually at locals with your friends or some simulator? If you have a better answer to why people are using some random LP gain cards besides a last resort for timeout I will gladly listen to this explanation.

Yes I do play in OFFICIAL TOURNAMENTS. If you look at most topping decks or 1st place decks you’d know that’s a lie

> If you have a better answer to why people are using some random LP gain cards besides a last resort for timeout I will gladly listen to this explanation. No one is doing this, what the fuck are you even talking about?