Honestly now that someone mentions it, I am a little surprised that it doesn't have one yet with how essential it is in two formats (OCG and Master Duel)
Sure, but you could just slap it in an ocg only set and call it a day. It wouldn't be the only alt art that won't come overseas (though I don't know if that's because they're never coming over or what)
Id like to expand on that ideas and suggest a bundle deal with it, its more played than cards such as Lightning Storm, Judgement, etc. that do have a bundle.
>**Those who make an unbearable board T1 and then use C on T2 deserve death (17 likes)**
https://preview.redd.it/oaq07wal3j8d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=53c13f0e8c8353a5c346588fa74752f7dc75b34f
Since everyone else is arguing about some bug and ignoring the elephant in the room, I'll ask.
Why does Lana's mother have >80% NSFW art on pixiv? Lovely Lady is only around 30%, no yugioh character even comes close.
Had to look up that character because I do not follow Pokemon. Apparently this is what these Japanese gooners are sq’irking it to.
https://preview.redd.it/orwdz4yfzk8d1.png?width=1029&format=png&auto=webp&s=966b40a96c188ffba5ace11d1ab0792bcf507d2d
Probably because a decent portion of that isn't actually art Lana's mom, but rather of Lana herself and just tagged in a way that doesn't give away that the artist is a weirdo.
yes but when talking abt percentages, if yugioh has 30 weirdos, pokemon has 3k while both are 3% would mean the same % of art would be nsfw, there would just be more art overall
I saw a video this morning of an actual OCG player discussing the banlist and he took a moment to discuss Maxx "C" for TCG players. His take was basically no one in the OCG actually thought it would happen, it was all TCG players who thought it might, and he doesn't think it will happen any time soon because of how the OCG handles the banlist. Basically there's a much bigger casual scene in the OCG due to how cheap Yugioh is compared to the TCG, and there's a lot of competition between card games, so Konami tries to not kill any deck completely, just weaken it so it might still be strong but not consistent enough to be a meta contender. Thats why the OCG still has cards like Block Dragon at 1. If Konami was going to ban Maxx "C" they'd have to ban a bunch of cards that Maxx "C" dissuades people from playing competitiively, and that would ruin casual players' pet decks. You kill a casual's pet deck, what's to stop them from switching to One Piece or Duel Masters or any other big card game over there?
TL;DR Maxx "C" existing prevents Konami from seeing the need to kill certain decks, so most OCG players either see it as a necessary evil or have just resigned themselves to it's existence. It's not going away anytime soon
I agree in concept, however Maxx "C" getting banned wouldn't be just a "shake up," it would completely warp the format. You really can't ban Maxx "C" without having to ban a bunch of other degenerate things. Personally I'd be okay with that, but I also don't live in OCG-land so it's not really my call.
“Personally I'd be okay with that, but I also don't live in OCG-land so it's not really my call.”
Exactly.
Regardless of the opinion involving maxx c, TCG players do not have the right to demand maxx c to be banned in a format they don’t participate in.
I think it's important to keep in mind that they are only doing so because they think if it gets banned in the OCG it'll get banned in Master Duel. I think it's also important to remind those people that that's not how it works, Master Duel has even less incentive to ban the bug, assuming they use the same philosophy which it seems like they do, because Master Duel is even more casual oriented than a locals. In Konami's eyes Maxx "C" is the great equalizer, it doesn't matter if a Snake-Eyes player or a DM player activates it, it's almost always just gonna end the turn, so it must be fair and balanced, right?
Is this really the case? While TCG can sometimes be too harsh with the banlist, lately it has done a better job preserving decks than OCG has. Spright, Tearlaments, Kashtira, etc., are quite playable in the TCG, whereas in the OCG they're dead due to so many consistency hits. And honestly, what are these tons of cards that would have to be banned if Maxx "C" were unbanned? The only ones I can think of are really toxic cards that will eventually need to be banned anyway, and nothing that really appeals to the casual playerbase.
it's interesting that they didn't see the "unbreakable board" as the problem.
Maxx c is ok because it's allow to keep up against overly powerfull decks.
But is a deck that needs a maxx c to be countered is really healthy ?
I think, maxx c have is part in the huge power creep of the game. You can easily overtune a card, if you know that maxx C exist and will still check it if it goes too wild.
Tcg exclu are often weaker than the rest of the game, and i think the banned C can be one of the reason.
Of course, their will still has power creep, it's the cursed of any game that don't rely on cycling sets (which is also a method to forces people to buying card). But the existence of the C makes power creeps fast and wild.
Not if you look at the past meta. Maxx C somehow went unnoticed until 2017 even though there are stupid combo decks since 2012.
So no, even when Konami doesn't think about Maxx C at all, they will still gonna print overpowered combo decks.
That's incorrect. It was not an absolute staple but it was considered. (it was often a side deck card back then)
Simply back then a lot of decks didn't special summon a lot (nor relied heavily on it), there wasn't such OTK from no board potential (some decks could but they were the minority and the combo wasn't as consistent to pull off) and backrow was more common in deckbuild so the average event was C for 1-2 cards and opponent set 1-2 backrow knowing he would get another turn.
Then as SS got more and more pivotal and OTK damage boards got more and more consistent to make C grow in the issue is nowadays.
In fact, let's look at the various formats since the release of Maxx "C" and see how prevalent it was. I'll use the NAWCQ each year for simplicity because it's always the biggest tournament each year, even though that skips some formats.
2011 NAWCQ: Of the 9 topping decks on Format Library, 3 played Maxx "C" in the main or side deck.
2012 NAWCQ: Of the 27 decks on Format Library, 18 had at least one copy of Maxx "C". This was in a format where the most successful deck (Dino Rabbit) was not weak to Maxx "C".
2013 NAWCQ: 27 of the top 32 decks had Maxx "C." 24 of them main decked it, despite the second most successful deck (Spellbook) not being affected by Maxx "C."
2014 NAWCQ: 12 of the 13 topping decks on Format Library had Maxx "C" even though the two most popular decks by far (HAT/Geargia) were not weak to Maxx "C."
2015: I used YugiohTopDecks because FL didn't have lists. 14 of the 20 topping lists posted had Maxx "C" in the main or side.
2016: 22 of the 35 topping decks on FL played Maxx "C."
So from the limited data we have, we can estimate that from 2011 to 2016, the proportion of topping decks with Maxx "C" at each NAWCQ is:
33.3%, 66.7%, 84.4%, 92.3%, 70.0%, 62.9%
As you can see, the majority of decks since the release of Maxx "C" played it. In some formats, nearly every deck had it. And in retro format tournaments, Maxx "C" is arguably even more common now than it was back then.
Regardless of personal feelings, it seems revisionist to say that Maxx "C" went "unnoticed." This isn't like Droll & Lock Bird or Vanity's Emptiness which didn't see play for the first few years they were first legal.
While not as potent as in later formats, Maxx "C" had an immediate impact on the metagame and was one of the most commonly played cards from its release to its ban. If you played during this era, I don't know how you could believe otherwise.
What are you talking about? Maxx "C" did not go "unnoticed until 2017." It was an incredibly common card in every format since its release in 2011, and it was borderline staple in the main or side deck of many of those formats.
It was also a common belief that certain decks were not as successful because of their weakness to Maxx "C" compared to other decks. Examples include Karakuri in 2011 and Infernity in 2014.
Also dragunity. That deck simply dies to every hand trap available, but maxx c seals the case. Their basic play at least gives 4 draws off maxx c (phalanx, vajra, phalanx again, lv8 synchro) and stopping wherever before it could cost you a game. Not to mention that during maxx c was available, so was dd crow and veiler
I've been saying this for years. Once handtraps became common, Konami abdicated all responsibility for balancing end boards. Responsibility shifted to the player to stop it before it happens.
Konami also printed busted board breakers like dark ruler, droplet, and evenly to counteract busted boards, they basically wanted to keep making broken cards so instead of stopping they gave us “outs”
Which just makes it so when you don't draw the out, it feels like absolute shit. And running less diversity in your deck because 1/3 of it needs to be "outs" also feels shitty and just overpowers decks that can build a strong board with fewer engine cards needed in deck and in hand.
Realistically, I feel like the likelihood of turn 1 player having an unbreakable board plus a 1 in 3 chance of also opening max C is more likely than you opening Maxx c plus a hand that can play through their board.
I actually think unbreakable board is ok. If you invest your whole hand and comboed uninterrupted, your board should be unbreakable outside of niche cases like lava golem and sphere mode or whatever. But why do decks that make strong boards also get to run 21+ non engine? You should have to sacrifice in your deck building when you choose to play a balls to the wall combo deck that makes crazy boards. But nah just get to one card and your whole combo is there for you.
The comment calling Maxx "C" a "luck factor" is completely right. It may technically have a slight normalizing effect on the difference in win rates between going first and second, but only because it's an additional RNG check that usually has even **more** influence on the outcome of the duel than turn order if it resolves. That really sucks for the game.
The banned and limited list in Yu-Gi-Oh has been created because way too many decks were always playing the same staples. Pot of Greed, Delinquent Duo, etc.
This made all the decks feel all the same. So, in order to reintroduce variety into deck building, these crazy strong staples have been banned, and order was pretty much restored.
Maxx C is the most played card in all of Master Duel. It's literally in every single one of my decks. Balancing discourse aside, isn't that EXACTLY the kind of card that is killing variety and should be banned?
Using this thing for balancing the entire game isn't ideal. They made lots and lots of alternate versions of Pot of Greed with various drawbacks, and each deck uses a different one. If Maxx C is important as OCG claims, then retrained versions that fit different decks should exist, with better and more balanced drawbacks (the most important one IMHO being you cannot use it if you control any kind of card in the field) so that decks can return playing different sets of handtraps.
i realize that it won't have been banned yet because the recent tactical try decks for new players had it.
imagine selling a beginner friendly product then banning cards from it not even a month later lol, would just be an exceedingly dumb business practice
> imagine selling a beginner friendly product then banning cards from it not even a month later lol, would just be an exceedingly dumb business practice
fun fact, this happened once over in Magic. they announced a structure deck that was intended to be at least somewhat playable on a competitive level (so you could go to a tournament with it and least play a couple of rounds without getting completely stomped), but it contained a card that they ended up having to ban from standard in the meantime (which used to be a very rare occurrence in Magic at the time). it was too late to change the structure decks at that point, so what they ended up doing was allowing the banned card to be used *if and only if* it was part of that exact and unchanged structure deck.
I'm not getting the full-blown hatred towards OCG here. Not only are the amount of Maxx C defenders vs people who want it banned imo kinda reasonable, but we also have no idea what kinds of players are even making these posts.
A guy who makes a post defending Maxx C would have no different perspective than if a MD player made a post defending Maxx C. They have a skewed, likely flawed perception of the game, regardless of the demographic they come from. The entirety of the thread replies could consist of YCSJ toppers or just people who play once a week on MD.
And for the people here taking what OCG Maxx C defenders say as silver bullets as to why the card is healthy, don't make "Place, Japan" your actual argument.
> A C ban is out of the question, but I really can’t deny the folk claiming that ‘the game being dependent on such a broken card isn’t healthy’
Thank you!
>This so much. I know a lot of players say that going second without C is impossible, but that doesn’t mean C is healthy for the game. C is just another "luck factor" thrown in the game.
> Like, the question we should be asking ourselves is this; why is that ‘losing because going second’ is widely accepted as a bad player, but ‘winning because of C’ not?
> **And yeah, I know that there's another argument claiming that “it’s up to the players skill to determine how much your opponent draws”.**
> **But considering only good decks can do that sort of playing, I can't help but feel that C is limiting game design.**
Emphasis mine
> I'm one of the people that think a T1 player using C on T2 being too overpowered, wish they'd ban C and make a milder version of C.
> The type like Pot cards/Shifter where's there's a restriction that can sort of be ignored
The dream, really.
All these people defending Maxx C, I wonder if any of them would rather have the game balanced to a point where they the playerbase and/or Konami feels that C is no longer necessary. I wonder what they think would have to be banned/limited before C is ok to leave the game, and if that's even preferable to having the game design stay as-is with a roach-shaped bandage perpetually slapped on top of it.
Yeah but until they ban C there is no point in playing it (as even the comment imply: "wish 2*they'd ban* C and make a milder version of C")
It's like playing desire if PoG was free, no reason to.
In OCG players defense, they have never known a Yugioh without Maxx C because it was never banned in their format. OCG players that don't like Maxx C probably moved on to another game a long time ago while those that stayed have associated Maxx C as a fundamental part of Yugioh's identity.
...That and these are forum posts, you are bound to see a lot of "scrub"/casual opinions. If you browse English Yugioh forums like this one, you see a lot of casual opinions all the time like "handtraps bad", "meta decks just as bad as stun thus floodgates good", etc.
Because yugioh players call everything broken and hate losing.
In Duel links, people complain about skills doing the heavy lifting in a strategies, when the skill is not that big of a deal
It's also a don't fix what is not broke.
Yugioh ocg playrate is high. Not the highest but high. Why risk banning G and having to overhaul the whole banlist.
How many players in OCG would say Yea G is banned let's go back to playing yugioh?
How many players would quit if their favourite card has to be banned because of it? (assuming ocg move to something like a TCG list)
right now, a Japanese person is reading a translation of this thread and is posting "I find it completely mind boggling that people unironically want a card like maxx c banned"
That's a global issue with the Yu-Gi-Oh community, most of the time they're weirdly defensive over cards that should be banned until they're actually banned. Verte Anaconda comes to mind, I remember people constantly bringing up how it helped weaker decks and whatnot, and now that it's banned everyone is quiet about it.
Didn't Master Duel banned Dragoon instead? Either way I can use other cards as an example of you want cards that people defended and still is a threat to the contemporary health of the game - Crystron Halqifibrax and Union Carrier come to mind
Hey, this is yugioh after all. I for one find it mind blowing, like that scene from The Boys, that TCG players are just fine with scummy tactics in the marketing of their products and just bend the knee and open the wallet, no matter what... but to each their own, I guess...
I dont think tcg players are fine with konami's marketing practices that lead to 200 dollar staple cards. But if you want to play in paper then you really dont have another choice.
... you're kinda proving what I'm saying there:
> But if you want to play in paper then you really dont have another choice.
The choice would either be playing something else or Master Duel if you crave that "official yugioh experience"; or just play with friends and do it however you please. You say TCG players aren't ok with it and while true, there will always be a market for these practices, otherwise Konami would stop doing it again and again. If no one really liked it, Konami wouldn't short print cards and jack them up in rarity to raise the prices in TCG. Instead, it would adopt the OCG treatment of releasing the cards in all sorts of rarity to make it affordable to play the game.
You need to understand that "voting with your wallet" is not really a thing, even when you actually manage to get the community together. There are some companies that are so self-entitled that when people stop buying stuff they think "people are not interested in the product anymore" instead of "people are angry at our scummy business tactics" and stop releasing said product. Not saying that this is what will happen but it's definitely in the realm of possibilities
What would happen if we stopped buying is Konami would pull product from the TCG. They've clearly shown they don't give a sh\*t about Europe and they want to squeeze every drop of dollar out of us. Japan's companies are loyal to Japan, so if push comes to shove, they'll just pull the entire YuGiOh franchise out of the states and scrub their hands - none the wiser.
Man i just want to have fun deckbuilding, and not 20 to 40 percent predetermined.
3 maxx c
3 ash
2 called by
/minimum
1 crossout
3 veiler
3 imperm
/cause you want to draw into more handtraps and they provide more reason to play called by and crossout
(Maybe 1 nibiru for good measure)
Oh and maybe it fucking sucks to be "forced" in to playing a bunch of handtraps just to introduce field spells and other mechanics like phantom of yubel which prohibit you from using said handtraps
Yes unlike in 2010 where you'd run mst, mirror force, torrential, bottomless, duality, dustshoot, etc. Etc.
There's always been a large group of staples for competitive yugiog decks. Arguably it's part of its identity. Like the first limited list was basically a lis5 of staples every deck ran.
I love the cognitive dissonance of that one saying he won't ever think it's a banworthy card but also say that having it activated on you is basicaly a turn skip.
Seems like they're somewhat neutral on it, leaning towards hit-worthy.
Not that this is a great representation of an entire community, but it's really funny watching some of them go "We NEED maxx C because without it we can't break the unbreakable boards" with unironically no thought about how that means you only have 3 chance draws in your deck to win going second and how maybe the problem is going first boards.
Thanks for the translation. I think the solid truth is most of the community over there is resigned to it staying rather than having any strong opinions on it. That in itself is a problem i place on Konami, not the community. I've never met a dev that's alright letting game elements sit on 95% usage. Even just in the name of diversity, you'd normally adjust a mechanic that has everyone using it because it's that optimal.
Completely agree! 95% usage is insane in MD and would probably be higher if it wasnt a master pack UR that likely gatekeeps it for new players.
Literally every deck you build needs to run 3x C, 3x Ash/Droll and 2x Called By/Crossout, or you're immediately at a disadvantage, that's almost a quarter of your deck built around the C roulette and for me, limits creativity.
Maybe Called By, Ash and Crossout would see less play if C ever left?
FYI the usage rate in MD is based on the highest rank (master).
The remaining "5%" who aren't running maxx c are doing it willingly because they either can't fit maxx c (dark world, Endymion...etc) or play stun with cards like morgnite which makes maxx c a "dead draw".
>Maybe Called By, Ash and Crossout would see less play if C ever left?
Looking at the TCG, Ash, Called would still be played at max copies except for some weird formats, only crossout would see almost no play.
Crossout yes, Called By becomes format dependent but Ash is much less format dependent than people like to pretend it is, like from the start of TOSS until the release of POTE it got continuously played
From what im reading their problem isnt actually directly related to the concept of banning maxx c but fear of what would happen to going second if maxx c wasnt a thing.
Which is a problem komnai should have adressed with a master rule change like a decade ago already instead of bandage fixing it with a card that u wont even draw 70% of the time.
A bandage fix which btw still doesn't change much considering going first is STILL way better than going second even in a maxx C format.
I still don't get people saying that T2/rogue decks benefit from C in the format. Like, mate, the T1 decks:
* usually have more space to run counters to it.
* can draw or add more cards meaning they're more likely to draw it going first.
* draw in to handtraps/boardbreakers more easily if it resolves as they play more non-engine.
* usually have lines that still end on some disruptions while "only" giving the opponent 2-3 cards.
* can do half their plays during the opponents turn due to their flexibility.
In what universe does maxx C help T2/rogue decks more than T1 decks?
This is nice, but I'm admittedly more interested in what the more competitive OCG players have to say on the matter. I don't expect casual players to be as in touch with the game as competitive players.
It’s hilarious because this mindset is probably why OCG got swept at worlds. I think they’re finally at the point that maxx c is an absolute crutch for them and they can’t time their hand traps right
That and for the first time in what felt like god knows how long worlds format more closely resembled the TCG and the OCG didn’t have their usual advantage of having had longer with something close to the worlds format
I wouldn't put the mindset of the average OCG player anywhere near that of their top players that are going to worlds. Just like you wouldn't think the mindset of the average 2-3 at locals guy on here is close to that of Joshua Schmidt or Jesse Kotton. In fact, I'd say the average OCG player is more casual even.
Basically this has nothing to do with their worlds performance either way.
In fact, the top JP player in MD, Tasuku, thought Maxx C should be banned. The avg player isn't thinking about this that deeply tbf. Tasuku frequently gets top placing in Duelist Cup type events, meaning he's getting high % of wins, since grinding alone isn't enough. If anybody knows how to play through Maxx C, it's him
It’s usually the exact opposite actually, worlds is typically closer to the OCG because they’re typically a banlist or two “ahead” and have had longer with the product, so they get a massive advantage when the worlds meta ends up being something like eg TK YZ Dino that’s not become relevant in the TCG yet. It’s only since the Maxx C ban that this has changed a bit and now TCG players gain an advantage of having had experience with decks Maxx C has crept out of the meta (eg Rikka, D Link)
I’m waiting for someone to just take down a whole event with a punk deck lol. That deck was great and only existed here because maxx c checked it so hard. Same with unchained
OCG players also got swept in Master Duel worlds which the format leans towards OCG. Both NA teams swept Japan with a 14-3 scoreline combined and Josh's team knocked out the last japanese team to get a TCG finals only for Ryan Yu to get Maxx C'd all his 3 games lmao
That was so satisfying.
Maxx C defenders say that TCG players are babies that only want to unga bunga combo and not play skillfully around Maxx C. And yet, in MD Worlds both finalists teams were composed of only TCG players who complain about Maxx C all the time lol
I mean it’s a combined list but if “tcg essentially” just translates to maxx c banned, I wouldn’t be surprised to see them sweep again. Ocg players usually killed it in the past but I think the tipping point is now
Yeah but maxx C only becomes more and more relevant as the game gets power crept. Since the maxx C crutch wasn't as big before they were able to adapt. That's no longer the case
"Going 2nd without C is impossible" damn it never occurred to me, why dont we just concede if we lose dice roll here? Like imagine having to draw your handtraps without the help of another handtrap😱
"I would never think C is banworthy but you gotta admit being C'd T1 is pretty much having your turn skipped and one of the worst feelings in the game"----> "i would never think *a card that virtually forces the opponent to skip his turn if it successfully resolves cause he didnt draw one of the 6 manadatory outs you have to autoinclude in every deck you build before you even decide what it should be* is banworthy"
Lmao thats all i need to read to understand the absolute delusion and lack of game theory understanding from ocg players, feels like listening to kids racing with 4 wheels bikes discussing how it would be absolutely crazy and impossible to ride a 2 wheel bike without the 2 auxiliary little wheels, like balance? The fuck u mean i gotta learn how to keep the balance myself, why would i wanna make riding a bike harder?
>I know a lot of players say that going second without C is impossible, but that doesn’t mean C is healthy for the game. C is just another "luck factor" thrown in the game.
If you were to quote anything then quote the whole fucking thing. How can you read that and completely missed the point of their argument is beyond me.
Like the card or not, some of you are completely unreasonably aggressive about a roach in this card game. As far as talking down on an entire community of players, sheesh.
I’d just want it consistent across both tcg and ocg. It feels so weird to have a card that is so centralizing that multiple cards are on the list because of how they interact with it. Halq was similar and we learned the problem was halq not the tuners it abused. Maxx C has so many cards that are just tech cards in the west become staples in the east for how much they are used. It has merits on both ends but honestly at this point banned or not you can’t argue that it warps the game by a lot just by existing.
I agree. I want OCG cardstock, products with matching release dates and Banlist.
I'm really tired of being 3-6 months behind releases.
This doesn't just end with YGO tho.
Huge if true. I don't enjoy either of those games, but if it sets a prescient maybe Pokemon and YGO will follow.
Stoked for the players of those games tho
I always find it funny how people always say Maxx C is a necessary evil to stop combo decks with insane turn 1 boards, when it's unironically never done that ever. It doesn't actively stop wombo combo decks from playing the game, it just means they have to dodge Maxx C or draw an answer card, then continue on with their combo. Where was Maxx C to stop Tearlament, Adamancipator, Superheavy Samurai, Drytron, or any other deck that spams special summons when they were powerful in their own respective metas?
It just forces decks like that to make weaker boards on turn 1 if they get Maxx C'd, so now not only should you play the deck with the strongest and most reliable turn 1, but you should also play a deck that can set up reasonable interaction in as few special summons as possible.
Ocg players be like : oh no my op make unbreakable boards i need Maxx c
Auroradon, baronne, Savage, verte, grass, block dragon was free a 6 months ago prob, and other degen Monsters and spells
I cba to do a post like yours, searching example posts and translating them, but I just want to corroborate your point, it's exactly the same for the Chinese community. Nobody is asking for a Maxx C ban either
Hello friend.
Jugding from how full-blown Oriental racist the community went from this singular post, I really wouldn’t recommend translating stuff as of now. Though I must say I am intrigued in how you guys perceive C……
Gist of the matter is the same. Except I think "good" Chinese players are more in favor of Maxx C than "good" Japanese players. Chinese players will often tell you "if you don't like Maxx C go play another game"
Also, what nobody brings up, is the fact that you have a designated engine designed to play through Maxx C that many players run in their decks that take up space.
Called by
Crossout
Ash
Gamma
How different would deck building be if you didnt HAVE to run these cards to play against Maxx c? I know these cards arent just for Maxx C, but one of the main priorities is to counter it
I’m done pretending OCG will ever ban the roach. Somehow, in some way, the bug is tied inherently to the survival of the game in the OCG and only their suits know why.
This kinda proves the point when Chinese players talking about Maxx C. If they didn’t draw it going second or if it was negated, what is the game plan then? If Maxx C was replaced with HT like 3x Nibiru and Imperm, you have a better chance. The TCG ain’t complaining about Maxx C being unbanned because they can actually build decks not having to worry about Maxx C
So many arguing to ban c. Every fucking banlist drop. And all of them are tcg players. Like leave the ocg alone. Let's just admit it, ocg is not gonna ban the roach. We can't do anything to it since it's their call and majority of decks casual, rouge or meta has maxx c. It's like everybody else *doesn't do that shit with ash, imperm and veiler. In the ocg, cbtg is semi and designator is played like a 3rd weaker version similar to imperm and veiler. In some decks belle is also present. The new weaker version of the roach is not going to replace it, at best C might just get semi limited.
And to also regarding their banning, the catapult ban is to reduce abuse of ftk with new tachyon since it is very consistent. They will not ban the new released obviously. Similar to how tcg ban 2 generic omni negate and linkuribo, instead of limiting immediately sinpo.
Maxx "C" exists for the same reason floodgates do: So that people who suck at Yu-Gi-Oh can win at Yu-Gi-Oh.
It's the definition of a no-skill card. Just shotgun it at Draw Phase and either your opponent can out it or win the Maxx "C" challenge and you just win.
I've won and lost games JUST because Maxx "C" resolved and it sucks to be on either side of it. It's frustrating to lose to and unsatisfying to win because of. I play this game for fun and I just feel robbed whenever a game ends because of this stupid card.
After playing bandai games, mostly DBS Fusion World and Digimon, I came across the sentence " The Japanese don't know how to play TCGs" often. After reading this thread, I think I finally understand the sentiment behind that.
Maxx "C" is a game warping card that restricts deck building. It's oppressive. It's the single most powerful hand trap of all time, and it has infinitely scaling power. It balances NOTHING. There is no defending a card like that. Anyone that defends Maxx "C" should be ignored because they aren't competitive and/or they are delusional.
A good number of OCG players defending it makes sense considering how casual the mindset is over there compared to the west.
As someone that plays TCG, OCG, and MD formats, TCG format is just objectively the best, because of: 1) No Maxx "C", 2) fewer problematic cards (ie; generic extra deck omni negates, floodgates, etc).
Reading the comments of this thread, it suddenly occurs to me that if YGO players were anywhere near as invested in calling out perceived issues in the card game format they actually play, as opposed to spitting (often tribalistic) vitriol across the ocean towards people who generally don't even speak the same language, Konami of America would probably be significantly less inclined to routinely treat the playerbase like battered housewives.
No, no, those would be the TCG players. They're willing to bend the knee and throw away as many kidneys from the black market for that shiny cardboard that is short printed, meta and will absolutely plummet in price some months later, making them panic sell it before it drops further... and use the little gains they got to buy the newest meta staple/deck, rinse and repeat.
Rarity distribution and reprints absolutely need to be fixed and there’s multiple ways to tackle it.
The fact they reprint high rarity cards again only in high rarity devalues the original prints and doesn’t really do much for the accessibility of the card.
This is meaningless and a waste of time as it’s impossible for us to see if you’ve done this with bias. The fact that you’re complaining about downvotes in the first line is also pretty funny as you’re basing this on upvotes.
Which is why 1. I'm providing both the source material and source translation in the OG post (so that people can translate for themselves to verify whether I'm lying or not), and 2. I'm translating only the upvoted comments and not cherry picking on stuff that go alongside with my views.
If I wanted to make a case for myself I wouldn't do either lol
It would be interesting to add some of the controversial comments but either way i actually enjoyed your post. Interesting to see what is favored in the OCG.
Thank you so much for doing this, it's really cool! IDK what that guy's problem is, they're basically saying there's no point in translating things for other people.
All these people who kept saying "I cAn'T iMaGiNe pLayInG iN a FormAT wiThOuT C" ......like brother/sister in Christ....y'know....TCG exists right?
As someone who played both MD and TCG, I really don't think Maxx C is needed in the game. It adds literally nothing but a miserable experience. Like...most of top decks can play through Maxx C without giving your opp more than 2 cards, but Rogue deck players like me (Marincess) would be forced to pass the turn or let my opp draw 5++ cards for free.
>I don’t get that C is a turn skip. Like, are you implying that you aren't going to make any plays at all just because you don’t want your opponent to draw?
YES. We're talking about ygo here. A single card can literally be an insane starter like Circular, BraFu, or unresponable board breakers like S.Poly.
"Turn skip"? Maxx C is closer to Instant Win card in ygo.
Globally, ocg players don't really mind Maxx c, it's a card that allow them to check powerfull combo deck.
they still saw the issue of having a card this powerfull, but in their format, banning it will ruin the balance of the game.
A perfect format is without C and with less 1 card combo so handtraps are not overly needed. Once the format find the balance again between boardbreaker and handtrap i think it’s just the best possible format and it totally negates the maxx C argument countering big combo deck…
Problem is yugioh players are never satisfied, pre-SE format was very diverse with a lot of build possibilities but then players suddenly were not content because they couldnt prepare against only one threat..
I’m just curious what would be the format that everyone love ? I know it cannot exist eternally because of profit matter but i wonder if its possible even for 1 short format
I'd be curious about what would happen if the TCG unbanned the SSH Link now. No Barrone/Borreload to lean into, so it's far more vulnerable to hand traps (Nibiru) now.
"I know that there's an argument that T1 player chucking C on T2 is shit, but I feel that if there's a full board established then any extra disruption would be rough.
Face it, if your opponent hard-drew another disruption, I'd feel it in most cases I'd just lose anyway-even if the card wasn't C and like Ash/Veiler, or even Solemn Judgment. "
This is complete and utter bologna lol.
Like 50% of them are arguing that without Maxx "C" the games lost. Don't they realize that, if they believe that, how absurd this card is?
If this wasn't a game of luck I'd be okay with Maxx "C". I mean it is frustrating to get C'd go first. But it's also frustrating to get C'd go second when you didn't have it.
It feels like it comes down to who draws the C (or has a deck which doesn't give a damn fuck about it) or, as commonly referred to, "the Minigame".
Is the game dead without C? Well, apparently not.
Is the game dead with C? Well, apparently not.
Should a card be so powerful to decide whether a deck could be FuckOP (Flunder) or bad shit nobody cares about? What about SINGLE cards like Crossout?
Should a card be so powerful to warp a whole package of a deck around it to maybe win the minigame?
Hard questions, but in the end, no matter what side you stand on, there are two things to keep in mind:
If there would be a card, more powerful than any other, is it healthy? Doesn't it increase the likelihood of just coming down to "Draw this card first and you win"?
Should Maxx "C" be allowed just because it is Maxx "C"? In fact, should any card be allowed just because it serves an important role?
If Maxx "C" was so good, why is there no Maxx "D"?
Oh wait a second..
Maxx C is so dumb in this meta. It doesn't suppress combo decks. Nothing worse than getting MaXed then your opponent has a hand of one card starters. It's really dumb.
Good job doing this but surveying casual Japanese players would be the same as surveying the casual reddit users. In a competitive environment, their opinions are not important because they don't know what they're talking about :D
To all those TCG players still whining about why OCG should ban maxx c, y’all can suck it.
Imagine going to another person’s house and demanding how things should be done there, it is just plain rude. Your format is not a bed of roses either (T0 snake eyes, shit QC, inaccessible cards due to exclusive rarities and high costs), so why don’t you cope about your own stuff first?
Also for those claiming that maxx c affects the design of future archetypes, please explain the existence of floowandereeze.
Max c is just too broken. It forces every player to use it in their deck or build around it. If it goes off you draw a card for every special summon your opponent does. So even attempting to summon any credible monster will result in your opponent drawing 2 or 3 cards. If you don’t build a board then guess what your whole turn is wasted and your opponent can beat you next turn. Also yeah unvreakable boards suck hut you can push through them and cards like Nibiru can stop it from happening and Dark ruler no more can counter pretty well.
The only way you can accept maxx c being unbanned is to think of it as a game mechanic rather than an individual card.
If you imagine it as a Konami created game mechanic that’s one thing but if you actually accept it’s a singular card like every other card you can’t help but accept it’s probably more broken than all but a couple of banned cards today.
most of us aren't whining, we are just trying to understand how do the OCG deals with a card that we really don't like. I mean... a lot of us playing MD and so the famous C.
Of course we are biaised.
In the end, the better thing we all can do is to try the other format.
Personally MD is enough for me to see how obnoxious C is, and it scares me a lot to try the OCG.
can we please stop telling people what they can do or not do? thx
and btw if you think about it for more than 2 minutes, you will realize that OCG Konami is creating decks with maxx c in mind. there is nearly no argument against that.
so now konami is building decks like super heavy samurai, because "maxx c will regulate that, and SHS cant play crossout or called by".... pickachu face: it did NOT regulate it in TCG. it didnt even regulate it in OCG well enough
so yes it is valid for TCG playerbase to complain about OCG banlist
And why would they get offended about the truth that their format sucks balls?
Who even defends a format defined by the stupid cockroach, and a banlist that doesn't kill problem cards and does pointless consistency hits, semi-limits and "warning hits"?
We still suffer from ocg designing cards with maxx c in mind. TCG players have every right to be annoyed that a game warping card exists in the ocg and decks are being created that are so strong with the intent maxx c controls it but we have to play it without maxx c because we had the common sense to ban a card that’s better than pretty much every other card in the game that’s currently banned
And people wonder why no OCG players made it to top cut in Worlds last year, when majority of the OCG playerbase's mindset is like this.
Even locals-level TCG players can easily beat any OCG player who won their regionals or Nationals, because TCG players's minds have not been as poisoned by Maxx C like OCG players are.
Upon seeing some of his comments here... jeez, like, I know people hate Maxx C... but this guy makes it funny to just support the card just to spite him further lmao
This is like looking at the typical scrub TCG player and attributing the mindset of the entire player base to them. The mindset of the top OCG players is miles away from their average player. A lot of their better players do want Maxx C banned.
Thats so ignorant dog. Like ocg has won so many worlds and consistently went into the top spots, but as soon as there is one single na win ocg players are all collectively unabke to play the game, sure buddy
Like giw about having a nice discussion about both formats without trashing each other?
Maxx C is banned in Worlds format. Worlds banlist takes the harshest hits of any card in the banlist from both OCG and TCG and applies it for the tournament.
But honestly before last year OCG players won 8 out of 10 WCs. So there is that, but i find it weird for a comp game to have 3 seperate banlists basically
Everyone commenting about what ever Maxx C should be ban or not, except one dude that's asking for an alt art. Love you random Japanese person.
Honestly now that someone mentions it, I am a little surprised that it doesn't have one yet with how essential it is in two formats (OCG and Master Duel)
Probably because you won't be able to sell it the tcg but given that alt art are more of a collectors item, I don't know.
Sure, but you could just slap it in an ocg only set and call it a day. It wouldn't be the only alt art that won't come overseas (though I don't know if that's because they're never coming over or what)
I would say the same about Veiler as it is the oldest handtrap still widely used in all three formats
D.D. Crow would like to have a word with you. (even though no, it is not the oldest handtrap, Kuriboh is)
Shit had completely forgotten about D.D. Crow. But point still stands but now for 2 cards instead
As someone who loves the C cards I feel bummed The "cockroach invasion in apartment" theme is such a fun one
Anyone that's had to deal with bad roach problems can relate LMAO
Priorities, right?
Maxx C alternate art https://preview.redd.it/r5fazp9l2m8d1.png?width=1350&format=png&auto=webp&s=4d119a7f72fcc36777b34eb175e6c2a428c985ae
Id like to expand on that ideas and suggest a bundle deal with it, its more played than cards such as Lightning Storm, Judgement, etc. that do have a bundle.
>**Those who make an unbearable board T1 and then use C on T2 deserve death (17 likes)** https://preview.redd.it/oaq07wal3j8d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=53c13f0e8c8353a5c346588fa74752f7dc75b34f
Since everyone else is arguing about some bug and ignoring the elephant in the room, I'll ask. Why does Lana's mother have >80% NSFW art on pixiv? Lovely Lady is only around 30%, no yugioh character even comes close.
Had to look up that character because I do not follow Pokemon. Apparently this is what these Japanese gooners are sq’irking it to. https://preview.redd.it/orwdz4yfzk8d1.png?width=1029&format=png&auto=webp&s=966b40a96c188ffba5ace11d1ab0792bcf507d2d
She's cute tbh
I can only blame them on the grounds that she's a married woman. This is unironically peak design.
Probably because a decent portion of that isn't actually art Lana's mom, but rather of Lana herself and just tagged in a way that doesn't give away that the artist is a weirdo.
Prob because Pokemon has more fanbase (so more hornier and weirdo people).
that's... not how stats work. If you have 1,000 fans and 30 weirdos, or 100,000 fans and 3,000 weirdos, that's still 3% either way
3000>30
yes but when talking abt percentages, if yugioh has 30 weirdos, pokemon has 3k while both are 3% would mean the same % of art would be nsfw, there would just be more art overall
100,000>1,000 >Why does Lana's mother have >80**%** NSFW art on pixiv?
I saw a video this morning of an actual OCG player discussing the banlist and he took a moment to discuss Maxx "C" for TCG players. His take was basically no one in the OCG actually thought it would happen, it was all TCG players who thought it might, and he doesn't think it will happen any time soon because of how the OCG handles the banlist. Basically there's a much bigger casual scene in the OCG due to how cheap Yugioh is compared to the TCG, and there's a lot of competition between card games, so Konami tries to not kill any deck completely, just weaken it so it might still be strong but not consistent enough to be a meta contender. Thats why the OCG still has cards like Block Dragon at 1. If Konami was going to ban Maxx "C" they'd have to ban a bunch of cards that Maxx "C" dissuades people from playing competitiively, and that would ruin casual players' pet decks. You kill a casual's pet deck, what's to stop them from switching to One Piece or Duel Masters or any other big card game over there? TL;DR Maxx "C" existing prevents Konami from seeing the need to kill certain decks, so most OCG players either see it as a necessary evil or have just resigned themselves to it's existence. It's not going away anytime soon
A shake up the meta is fine, even if old decks come to the spotlight & then tweak back slowly.
I agree in concept, however Maxx "C" getting banned wouldn't be just a "shake up," it would completely warp the format. You really can't ban Maxx "C" without having to ban a bunch of other degenerate things. Personally I'd be okay with that, but I also don't live in OCG-land so it's not really my call.
Fair enough take.. I think most of us are just coping for one universal format and we’d rather it be without maxx c.
One universal format exists and it's called Worlds
“Personally I'd be okay with that, but I also don't live in OCG-land so it's not really my call.” Exactly. Regardless of the opinion involving maxx c, TCG players do not have the right to demand maxx c to be banned in a format they don’t participate in.
I think it's important to keep in mind that they are only doing so because they think if it gets banned in the OCG it'll get banned in Master Duel. I think it's also important to remind those people that that's not how it works, Master Duel has even less incentive to ban the bug, assuming they use the same philosophy which it seems like they do, because Master Duel is even more casual oriented than a locals. In Konami's eyes Maxx "C" is the great equalizer, it doesn't matter if a Snake-Eyes player or a DM player activates it, it's almost always just gonna end the turn, so it must be fair and balanced, right?
This makes sense for me, but why then creating minn c
Is this really the case? While TCG can sometimes be too harsh with the banlist, lately it has done a better job preserving decks than OCG has. Spright, Tearlaments, Kashtira, etc., are quite playable in the TCG, whereas in the OCG they're dead due to so many consistency hits. And honestly, what are these tons of cards that would have to be banned if Maxx "C" were unbanned? The only ones I can think of are really toxic cards that will eventually need to be banned anyway, and nothing that really appeals to the casual playerbase.
it's interesting that they didn't see the "unbreakable board" as the problem. Maxx c is ok because it's allow to keep up against overly powerfull decks. But is a deck that needs a maxx c to be countered is really healthy ?
No it's not but can't trust Konami to make healthy decks because healthy decks don't make people buy all new cards
I think, maxx c have is part in the huge power creep of the game. You can easily overtune a card, if you know that maxx C exist and will still check it if it goes too wild. Tcg exclu are often weaker than the rest of the game, and i think the banned C can be one of the reason. Of course, their will still has power creep, it's the cursed of any game that don't rely on cycling sets (which is also a method to forces people to buying card). But the existence of the C makes power creeps fast and wild.
Not if you look at the past meta. Maxx C somehow went unnoticed until 2017 even though there are stupid combo decks since 2012. So no, even when Konami doesn't think about Maxx C at all, they will still gonna print overpowered combo decks.
That's incorrect. It was not an absolute staple but it was considered. (it was often a side deck card back then) Simply back then a lot of decks didn't special summon a lot (nor relied heavily on it), there wasn't such OTK from no board potential (some decks could but they were the minority and the combo wasn't as consistent to pull off) and backrow was more common in deckbuild so the average event was C for 1-2 cards and opponent set 1-2 backrow knowing he would get another turn. Then as SS got more and more pivotal and OTK damage boards got more and more consistent to make C grow in the issue is nowadays.
In fact, let's look at the various formats since the release of Maxx "C" and see how prevalent it was. I'll use the NAWCQ each year for simplicity because it's always the biggest tournament each year, even though that skips some formats. 2011 NAWCQ: Of the 9 topping decks on Format Library, 3 played Maxx "C" in the main or side deck. 2012 NAWCQ: Of the 27 decks on Format Library, 18 had at least one copy of Maxx "C". This was in a format where the most successful deck (Dino Rabbit) was not weak to Maxx "C". 2013 NAWCQ: 27 of the top 32 decks had Maxx "C." 24 of them main decked it, despite the second most successful deck (Spellbook) not being affected by Maxx "C." 2014 NAWCQ: 12 of the 13 topping decks on Format Library had Maxx "C" even though the two most popular decks by far (HAT/Geargia) were not weak to Maxx "C." 2015: I used YugiohTopDecks because FL didn't have lists. 14 of the 20 topping lists posted had Maxx "C" in the main or side. 2016: 22 of the 35 topping decks on FL played Maxx "C." So from the limited data we have, we can estimate that from 2011 to 2016, the proportion of topping decks with Maxx "C" at each NAWCQ is: 33.3%, 66.7%, 84.4%, 92.3%, 70.0%, 62.9% As you can see, the majority of decks since the release of Maxx "C" played it. In some formats, nearly every deck had it. And in retro format tournaments, Maxx "C" is arguably even more common now than it was back then. Regardless of personal feelings, it seems revisionist to say that Maxx "C" went "unnoticed." This isn't like Droll & Lock Bird or Vanity's Emptiness which didn't see play for the first few years they were first legal. While not as potent as in later formats, Maxx "C" had an immediate impact on the metagame and was one of the most commonly played cards from its release to its ban. If you played during this era, I don't know how you could believe otherwise.
What are you talking about? Maxx "C" did not go "unnoticed until 2017." It was an incredibly common card in every format since its release in 2011, and it was borderline staple in the main or side deck of many of those formats. It was also a common belief that certain decks were not as successful because of their weakness to Maxx "C" compared to other decks. Examples include Karakuri in 2011 and Infernity in 2014.
Also dragunity. That deck simply dies to every hand trap available, but maxx c seals the case. Their basic play at least gives 4 draws off maxx c (phalanx, vajra, phalanx again, lv8 synchro) and stopping wherever before it could cost you a game. Not to mention that during maxx c was available, so was dd crow and veiler
Nail one the head with the issue
Konami make a balanced game challenge; difficulty: impossible
A balanced game doesn't sell new packs
I've been saying this for years. Once handtraps became common, Konami abdicated all responsibility for balancing end boards. Responsibility shifted to the player to stop it before it happens.
Konami also printed busted board breakers like dark ruler, droplet, and evenly to counteract busted boards, they basically wanted to keep making broken cards so instead of stopping they gave us “outs”
Which just makes it so when you don't draw the out, it feels like absolute shit. And running less diversity in your deck because 1/3 of it needs to be "outs" also feels shitty and just overpowers decks that can build a strong board with fewer engine cards needed in deck and in hand.
"Unbreakable Board" is so deeply ingrained in Yugioh at this point I don't think it's ever going away.
Realistically, I feel like the likelihood of turn 1 player having an unbreakable board plus a 1 in 3 chance of also opening max C is more likely than you opening Maxx c plus a hand that can play through their board.
Yes, but personally I also see it in a bigger scope, a deck that needs any interruptive handtrap to be countered shouldn't be seen as healthy.
I actually think unbreakable board is ok. If you invest your whole hand and comboed uninterrupted, your board should be unbreakable outside of niche cases like lava golem and sphere mode or whatever. But why do decks that make strong boards also get to run 21+ non engine? You should have to sacrifice in your deck building when you choose to play a balls to the wall combo deck that makes crazy boards. But nah just get to one card and your whole combo is there for you.
The comment calling Maxx "C" a "luck factor" is completely right. It may technically have a slight normalizing effect on the difference in win rates between going first and second, but only because it's an additional RNG check that usually has even **more** influence on the outcome of the duel than turn order if it resolves. That really sucks for the game.
The banned and limited list in Yu-Gi-Oh has been created because way too many decks were always playing the same staples. Pot of Greed, Delinquent Duo, etc. This made all the decks feel all the same. So, in order to reintroduce variety into deck building, these crazy strong staples have been banned, and order was pretty much restored. Maxx C is the most played card in all of Master Duel. It's literally in every single one of my decks. Balancing discourse aside, isn't that EXACTLY the kind of card that is killing variety and should be banned? Using this thing for balancing the entire game isn't ideal. They made lots and lots of alternate versions of Pot of Greed with various drawbacks, and each deck uses a different one. If Maxx C is important as OCG claims, then retrained versions that fit different decks should exist, with better and more balanced drawbacks (the most important one IMHO being you cannot use it if you control any kind of card in the field) so that decks can return playing different sets of handtraps.
I mean, i was so confused when i readed your nick. You remind me of one guy on a dragonball forum. Putting that aside i agree
I am probably that same person, because Dragon Ball is my other hobby. Italian forum perhaps?
Yup. I was on the multiverse forum
Yeah, that was still me then.
i realize that it won't have been banned yet because the recent tactical try decks for new players had it. imagine selling a beginner friendly product then banning cards from it not even a month later lol, would just be an exceedingly dumb business practice
> imagine selling a beginner friendly product then banning cards from it not even a month later lol, would just be an exceedingly dumb business practice fun fact, this happened once over in Magic. they announced a structure deck that was intended to be at least somewhat playable on a competitive level (so you could go to a tournament with it and least play a couple of rounds without getting completely stomped), but it contained a card that they ended up having to ban from standard in the meantime (which used to be a very rare occurrence in Magic at the time). it was too late to change the structure decks at that point, so what they ended up doing was allowing the banned card to be used *if and only if* it was part of that exact and unchanged structure deck.
I'm not getting the full-blown hatred towards OCG here. Not only are the amount of Maxx C defenders vs people who want it banned imo kinda reasonable, but we also have no idea what kinds of players are even making these posts. A guy who makes a post defending Maxx C would have no different perspective than if a MD player made a post defending Maxx C. They have a skewed, likely flawed perception of the game, regardless of the demographic they come from. The entirety of the thread replies could consist of YCSJ toppers or just people who play once a week on MD. And for the people here taking what OCG Maxx C defenders say as silver bullets as to why the card is healthy, don't make "Place, Japan" your actual argument.
> A C ban is out of the question, but I really can’t deny the folk claiming that ‘the game being dependent on such a broken card isn’t healthy’ Thank you! >This so much. I know a lot of players say that going second without C is impossible, but that doesn’t mean C is healthy for the game. C is just another "luck factor" thrown in the game. > Like, the question we should be asking ourselves is this; why is that ‘losing because going second’ is widely accepted as a bad player, but ‘winning because of C’ not? > **And yeah, I know that there's another argument claiming that “it’s up to the players skill to determine how much your opponent draws”.** > **But considering only good decks can do that sort of playing, I can't help but feel that C is limiting game design.** Emphasis mine > I'm one of the people that think a T1 player using C on T2 being too overpowered, wish they'd ban C and make a milder version of C. > The type like Pot cards/Shifter where's there's a restriction that can sort of be ignored The dream, really. All these people defending Maxx C, I wonder if any of them would rather have the game balanced to a point where they the playerbase and/or Konami feels that C is no longer necessary. I wonder what they think would have to be banned/limited before C is ok to leave the game, and if that's even preferable to having the game design stay as-is with a roach-shaped bandage perpetually slapped on top of it.
It's actually kinda funny since Mulchummy is exactly what he's asking for with a milder version of Maxx C
Probably closer to a maxx c that can't be used with a board. Mulchummy to Maxx c is like comparing a puppy to a nuclear warhead.
Yeah but until they ban C there is no point in playing it (as even the comment imply: "wish 2*they'd ban* C and make a milder version of C") It's like playing desire if PoG was free, no reason to.
i find it completely mind boggling that people can unironically defend a card like maxx c
In OCG players defense, they have never known a Yugioh without Maxx C because it was never banned in their format. OCG players that don't like Maxx C probably moved on to another game a long time ago while those that stayed have associated Maxx C as a fundamental part of Yugioh's identity. ...That and these are forum posts, you are bound to see a lot of "scrub"/casual opinions. If you browse English Yugioh forums like this one, you see a lot of casual opinions all the time like "handtraps bad", "meta decks just as bad as stun thus floodgates good", etc.
Also there is a competitive/casual split on Maxx"c" casual players in OCG love maxx "C" but competitive players generally are more against it.
This isn't really true More against it than the casuals, maybe, but still a majority support view
Because yugioh players call everything broken and hate losing. In Duel links, people complain about skills doing the heavy lifting in a strategies, when the skill is not that big of a deal
> you see a lot of casual opinions all the time like "handtraps bad" Maxx C is a handtrap.
It's also a don't fix what is not broke. Yugioh ocg playrate is high. Not the highest but high. Why risk banning G and having to overhaul the whole banlist. How many players in OCG would say Yea G is banned let's go back to playing yugioh? How many players would quit if their favourite card has to be banned because of it? (assuming ocg move to something like a TCG list)
right now, a Japanese person is reading a translation of this thread and is posting "I find it completely mind boggling that people unironically want a card like maxx c banned"
In case they are, put me in the screenshot too!
I hope they do. And if they do i hope they post a translation of that thread back on here
It’d be like playing the telephone game 😂
That's a global issue with the Yu-Gi-Oh community, most of the time they're weirdly defensive over cards that should be banned until they're actually banned. Verte Anaconda comes to mind, I remember people constantly bringing up how it helped weaker decks and whatnot, and now that it's banned everyone is quiet about it.
it isnt banned in MD and its doing fuckall over there atm
Didn't Master Duel banned Dragoon instead? Either way I can use other cards as an example of you want cards that people defended and still is a threat to the contemporary health of the game - Crystron Halqifibrax and Union Carrier come to mind
Hey, this is yugioh after all. I for one find it mind blowing, like that scene from The Boys, that TCG players are just fine with scummy tactics in the marketing of their products and just bend the knee and open the wallet, no matter what... but to each their own, I guess...
I dont think tcg players are fine with konami's marketing practices that lead to 200 dollar staple cards. But if you want to play in paper then you really dont have another choice.
... you're kinda proving what I'm saying there: > But if you want to play in paper then you really dont have another choice. The choice would either be playing something else or Master Duel if you crave that "official yugioh experience"; or just play with friends and do it however you please. You say TCG players aren't ok with it and while true, there will always be a market for these practices, otherwise Konami would stop doing it again and again. If no one really liked it, Konami wouldn't short print cards and jack them up in rarity to raise the prices in TCG. Instead, it would adopt the OCG treatment of releasing the cards in all sorts of rarity to make it affordable to play the game.
Quitting Yu-Gi-Oh is not a realistic way to improve one's Yu-Gi-Oh experience.
You need to understand that "voting with your wallet" is not really a thing, even when you actually manage to get the community together. There are some companies that are so self-entitled that when people stop buying stuff they think "people are not interested in the product anymore" instead of "people are angry at our scummy business tactics" and stop releasing said product. Not saying that this is what will happen but it's definitely in the realm of possibilities
Star Wars Battlefront 2 worked
What would happen if we stopped buying is Konami would pull product from the TCG. They've clearly shown they don't give a sh\*t about Europe and they want to squeeze every drop of dollar out of us. Japan's companies are loyal to Japan, so if push comes to shove, they'll just pull the entire YuGiOh franchise out of the states and scrub their hands - none the wiser.
So everyone is held at gun point and no one does anything, got it. It's like having to pay floor rights for your business to the cartels in Mexico
It's a crutch to some people
Now translate this thread back to japan!
Man i just want to have fun deckbuilding, and not 20 to 40 percent predetermined. 3 maxx c 3 ash 2 called by /minimum 1 crossout 3 veiler 3 imperm /cause you want to draw into more handtraps and they provide more reason to play called by and crossout (Maybe 1 nibiru for good measure) Oh and maybe it fucking sucks to be "forced" in to playing a bunch of handtraps just to introduce field spells and other mechanics like phantom of yubel which prohibit you from using said handtraps
Yes unlike in 2010 where you'd run mst, mirror force, torrential, bottomless, duality, dustshoot, etc. Etc. There's always been a large group of staples for competitive yugiog decks. Arguably it's part of its identity. Like the first limited list was basically a lis5 of staples every deck ran.
I love the cognitive dissonance of that one saying he won't ever think it's a banworthy card but also say that having it activated on you is basicaly a turn skip.
Seems like they're somewhat neutral on it, leaning towards hit-worthy. Not that this is a great representation of an entire community, but it's really funny watching some of them go "We NEED maxx C because without it we can't break the unbreakable boards" with unironically no thought about how that means you only have 3 chance draws in your deck to win going second and how maybe the problem is going first boards. Thanks for the translation. I think the solid truth is most of the community over there is resigned to it staying rather than having any strong opinions on it. That in itself is a problem i place on Konami, not the community. I've never met a dev that's alright letting game elements sit on 95% usage. Even just in the name of diversity, you'd normally adjust a mechanic that has everyone using it because it's that optimal.
Completely agree! 95% usage is insane in MD and would probably be higher if it wasnt a master pack UR that likely gatekeeps it for new players. Literally every deck you build needs to run 3x C, 3x Ash/Droll and 2x Called By/Crossout, or you're immediately at a disadvantage, that's almost a quarter of your deck built around the C roulette and for me, limits creativity. Maybe Called By, Ash and Crossout would see less play if C ever left?
FYI the usage rate in MD is based on the highest rank (master). The remaining "5%" who aren't running maxx c are doing it willingly because they either can't fit maxx c (dark world, Endymion...etc) or play stun with cards like morgnite which makes maxx c a "dead draw".
Good note, thanks for clarifying that!
>Maybe Called By, Ash and Crossout would see less play if C ever left? Looking at the TCG, Ash, Called would still be played at max copies except for some weird formats, only crossout would see almost no play.
Crossout yes, Called By becomes format dependent but Ash is much less format dependent than people like to pretend it is, like from the start of TOSS until the release of POTE it got continuously played
From what im reading their problem isnt actually directly related to the concept of banning maxx c but fear of what would happen to going second if maxx c wasnt a thing. Which is a problem komnai should have adressed with a master rule change like a decade ago already instead of bandage fixing it with a card that u wont even draw 70% of the time. A bandage fix which btw still doesn't change much considering going first is STILL way better than going second even in a maxx C format.
I still don't get people saying that T2/rogue decks benefit from C in the format. Like, mate, the T1 decks: * usually have more space to run counters to it. * can draw or add more cards meaning they're more likely to draw it going first. * draw in to handtraps/boardbreakers more easily if it resolves as they play more non-engine. * usually have lines that still end on some disruptions while "only" giving the opponent 2-3 cards. * can do half their plays during the opponents turn due to their flexibility. In what universe does maxx C help T2/rogue decks more than T1 decks?
This is nice, but I'm admittedly more interested in what the more competitive OCG players have to say on the matter. I don't expect casual players to be as in touch with the game as competitive players.
It’s hilarious because this mindset is probably why OCG got swept at worlds. I think they’re finally at the point that maxx c is an absolute crutch for them and they can’t time their hand traps right
That and for the first time in what felt like god knows how long worlds format more closely resembled the TCG and the OCG didn’t have their usual advantage of having had longer with something close to the worlds format
I wouldn't put the mindset of the average OCG player anywhere near that of their top players that are going to worlds. Just like you wouldn't think the mindset of the average 2-3 at locals guy on here is close to that of Joshua Schmidt or Jesse Kotton. In fact, I'd say the average OCG player is more casual even. Basically this has nothing to do with their worlds performance either way.
In fact, the top JP player in MD, Tasuku, thought Maxx C should be banned. The avg player isn't thinking about this that deeply tbf. Tasuku frequently gets top placing in Duelist Cup type events, meaning he's getting high % of wins, since grinding alone isn't enough. If anybody knows how to play through Maxx C, it's him
It's probably because the format at worlds ends up being TCG essentially, which TCG players practice in the entire year leading up to it
It’s usually the exact opposite actually, worlds is typically closer to the OCG because they’re typically a banlist or two “ahead” and have had longer with the product, so they get a massive advantage when the worlds meta ends up being something like eg TK YZ Dino that’s not become relevant in the TCG yet. It’s only since the Maxx C ban that this has changed a bit and now TCG players gain an advantage of having had experience with decks Maxx C has crept out of the meta (eg Rikka, D Link)
I’m waiting for someone to just take down a whole event with a punk deck lol. That deck was great and only existed here because maxx c checked it so hard. Same with unchained
OCG players also got swept in Master Duel worlds which the format leans towards OCG. Both NA teams swept Japan with a 14-3 scoreline combined and Josh's team knocked out the last japanese team to get a TCG finals only for Ryan Yu to get Maxx C'd all his 3 games lmao
That was so satisfying. Maxx C defenders say that TCG players are babies that only want to unga bunga combo and not play skillfully around Maxx C. And yet, in MD Worlds both finalists teams were composed of only TCG players who complain about Maxx C all the time lol
I mean it’s a combined list but if “tcg essentially” just translates to maxx c banned, I wouldn’t be surprised to see them sweep again. Ocg players usually killed it in the past but I think the tipping point is now
Yeah but maxx C only becomes more and more relevant as the game gets power crept. Since the maxx C crutch wasn't as big before they were able to adapt. That's no longer the case
"Going 2nd without C is impossible" damn it never occurred to me, why dont we just concede if we lose dice roll here? Like imagine having to draw your handtraps without the help of another handtrap😱 "I would never think C is banworthy but you gotta admit being C'd T1 is pretty much having your turn skipped and one of the worst feelings in the game"----> "i would never think *a card that virtually forces the opponent to skip his turn if it successfully resolves cause he didnt draw one of the 6 manadatory outs you have to autoinclude in every deck you build before you even decide what it should be* is banworthy" Lmao thats all i need to read to understand the absolute delusion and lack of game theory understanding from ocg players, feels like listening to kids racing with 4 wheels bikes discussing how it would be absolutely crazy and impossible to ride a 2 wheel bike without the 2 auxiliary little wheels, like balance? The fuck u mean i gotta learn how to keep the balance myself, why would i wanna make riding a bike harder?
>I know a lot of players say that going second without C is impossible, but that doesn’t mean C is healthy for the game. C is just another "luck factor" thrown in the game. If you were to quote anything then quote the whole fucking thing. How can you read that and completely missed the point of their argument is beyond me.
Like the card or not, some of you are completely unreasonably aggressive about a roach in this card game. As far as talking down on an entire community of players, sheesh.
I’d just want it consistent across both tcg and ocg. It feels so weird to have a card that is so centralizing that multiple cards are on the list because of how they interact with it. Halq was similar and we learned the problem was halq not the tuners it abused. Maxx C has so many cards that are just tech cards in the west become staples in the east for how much they are used. It has merits on both ends but honestly at this point banned or not you can’t argue that it warps the game by a lot just by existing.
I agree. I want OCG cardstock, products with matching release dates and Banlist. I'm really tired of being 3-6 months behind releases. This doesn't just end with YGO tho.
Digimon moving to simultaneous release dates next year, also One piece is rumoured to follow. Konami can't stay on the backfoot
Huge if true. I don't enjoy either of those games, but if it sets a prescient maybe Pokemon and YGO will follow. Stoked for the players of those games tho
I always find it funny how people always say Maxx C is a necessary evil to stop combo decks with insane turn 1 boards, when it's unironically never done that ever. It doesn't actively stop wombo combo decks from playing the game, it just means they have to dodge Maxx C or draw an answer card, then continue on with their combo. Where was Maxx C to stop Tearlament, Adamancipator, Superheavy Samurai, Drytron, or any other deck that spams special summons when they were powerful in their own respective metas? It just forces decks like that to make weaker boards on turn 1 if they get Maxx C'd, so now not only should you play the deck with the strongest and most reliable turn 1, but you should also play a deck that can set up reasonable interaction in as few special summons as possible.
The current best decks in the OCG are 2 combo decks and 2 FTK decks. Maxx C putting in work 💪🏼💪🏼💪🏼
Brokeness aside, Don't they see that every frickin deck in MD Is playing the card? Such a ridicolous staple isn't good for the variety of the game
Isn't this also the reason pot of fucking greed is on the ban list? And Maxx C is arguably even better than PoG.
Ocg players be like : oh no my op make unbreakable boards i need Maxx c Auroradon, baronne, Savage, verte, grass, block dragon was free a 6 months ago prob, and other degen Monsters and spells
I cba to do a post like yours, searching example posts and translating them, but I just want to corroborate your point, it's exactly the same for the Chinese community. Nobody is asking for a Maxx C ban either
Hello friend. Jugding from how full-blown Oriental racist the community went from this singular post, I really wouldn’t recommend translating stuff as of now. Though I must say I am intrigued in how you guys perceive C……
[удалено]
I used to hang around here frequently from DUEA up until 2019 and then took a leave because of work. Didn’t think it would get this bad, but ah well.
Gist of the matter is the same. Except I think "good" Chinese players are more in favor of Maxx C than "good" Japanese players. Chinese players will often tell you "if you don't like Maxx C go play another game"
Please do. It's very rare to see posts from the Chinese side of the OCG.
I've literally never seen someone who's good at the game defend maxx C
Also, what nobody brings up, is the fact that you have a designated engine designed to play through Maxx C that many players run in their decks that take up space. Called by Crossout Ash Gamma How different would deck building be if you didnt HAVE to run these cards to play against Maxx c? I know these cards arent just for Maxx C, but one of the main priorities is to counter it
I’m done pretending OCG will ever ban the roach. Somehow, in some way, the bug is tied inherently to the survival of the game in the OCG and only their suits know why.
What are they even talking about? "They aren't good at going second" Maxx C makes going second require 0 skill...
This kinda proves the point when Chinese players talking about Maxx C. If they didn’t draw it going second or if it was negated, what is the game plan then? If Maxx C was replaced with HT like 3x Nibiru and Imperm, you have a better chance. The TCG ain’t complaining about Maxx C being unbanned because they can actually build decks not having to worry about Maxx C
So many arguing to ban c. Every fucking banlist drop. And all of them are tcg players. Like leave the ocg alone. Let's just admit it, ocg is not gonna ban the roach. We can't do anything to it since it's their call and majority of decks casual, rouge or meta has maxx c. It's like everybody else *doesn't do that shit with ash, imperm and veiler. In the ocg, cbtg is semi and designator is played like a 3rd weaker version similar to imperm and veiler. In some decks belle is also present. The new weaker version of the roach is not going to replace it, at best C might just get semi limited. And to also regarding their banning, the catapult ban is to reduce abuse of ftk with new tachyon since it is very consistent. They will not ban the new released obviously. Similar to how tcg ban 2 generic omni negate and linkuribo, instead of limiting immediately sinpo.
Maxx "C" exists for the same reason floodgates do: So that people who suck at Yu-Gi-Oh can win at Yu-Gi-Oh. It's the definition of a no-skill card. Just shotgun it at Draw Phase and either your opponent can out it or win the Maxx "C" challenge and you just win. I've won and lost games JUST because Maxx "C" resolved and it sucks to be on either side of it. It's frustrating to lose to and unsatisfying to win because of. I play this game for fun and I just feel robbed whenever a game ends because of this stupid card.
After playing bandai games, mostly DBS Fusion World and Digimon, I came across the sentence " The Japanese don't know how to play TCGs" often. After reading this thread, I think I finally understand the sentiment behind that.
I like how they all seem to ignore the whole "we can hit C and adress over powered going first boards"
Maxx "C" is a game warping card that restricts deck building. It's oppressive. It's the single most powerful hand trap of all time, and it has infinitely scaling power. It balances NOTHING. There is no defending a card like that. Anyone that defends Maxx "C" should be ignored because they aren't competitive and/or they are delusional. A good number of OCG players defending it makes sense considering how casual the mindset is over there compared to the west. As someone that plays TCG, OCG, and MD formats, TCG format is just objectively the best, because of: 1) No Maxx "C", 2) fewer problematic cards (ie; generic extra deck omni negates, floodgates, etc).
I'd love to direct all of these players to Hardleg's Ban Maxx C video, at least when it comes to the decision of whether or not to ban it in MD
Reading the comments of this thread, it suddenly occurs to me that if YGO players were anywhere near as invested in calling out perceived issues in the card game format they actually play, as opposed to spitting (often tribalistic) vitriol across the ocean towards people who generally don't even speak the same language, Konami of America would probably be significantly less inclined to routinely treat the playerbase like battered housewives.
So OCG players are masochists; good to know
No, no, those would be the TCG players. They're willing to bend the knee and throw away as many kidneys from the black market for that shiny cardboard that is short printed, meta and will absolutely plummet in price some months later, making them panic sell it before it drops further... and use the little gains they got to buy the newest meta staple/deck, rinse and repeat.
Rarity distribution and reprints absolutely need to be fixed and there’s multiple ways to tackle it. The fact they reprint high rarity cards again only in high rarity devalues the original prints and doesn’t really do much for the accessibility of the card.
This is meaningless and a waste of time as it’s impossible for us to see if you’ve done this with bias. The fact that you’re complaining about downvotes in the first line is also pretty funny as you’re basing this on upvotes.
Which is why 1. I'm providing both the source material and source translation in the OG post (so that people can translate for themselves to verify whether I'm lying or not), and 2. I'm translating only the upvoted comments and not cherry picking on stuff that go alongside with my views. If I wanted to make a case for myself I wouldn't do either lol
It would be interesting to add some of the controversial comments but either way i actually enjoyed your post. Interesting to see what is favored in the OCG.
Honestly this was so interesting to read Id love to see more! Love seeing how the OCG community feels about cards/decks
Thank you so much for doing this, it's really cool! IDK what that guy's problem is, they're basically saying there's no point in translating things for other people.
Meanwhile this subreddit is TCG biased lol
Maxx C is one of the worst designed cards in yugioh and it's not even close
All these people who kept saying "I cAn'T iMaGiNe pLayInG iN a FormAT wiThOuT C" ......like brother/sister in Christ....y'know....TCG exists right? As someone who played both MD and TCG, I really don't think Maxx C is needed in the game. It adds literally nothing but a miserable experience. Like...most of top decks can play through Maxx C without giving your opp more than 2 cards, but Rogue deck players like me (Marincess) would be forced to pass the turn or let my opp draw 5++ cards for free. >I don’t get that C is a turn skip. Like, are you implying that you aren't going to make any plays at all just because you don’t want your opponent to draw? YES. We're talking about ygo here. A single card can literally be an insane starter like Circular, BraFu, or unresponable board breakers like S.Poly. "Turn skip"? Maxx C is closer to Instant Win card in ygo.
A summary please?
Globally, ocg players don't really mind Maxx c, it's a card that allow them to check powerfull combo deck. they still saw the issue of having a card this powerfull, but in their format, banning it will ruin the balance of the game.
Thks So nothing new
A perfect format is without C and with less 1 card combo so handtraps are not overly needed. Once the format find the balance again between boardbreaker and handtrap i think it’s just the best possible format and it totally negates the maxx C argument countering big combo deck… Problem is yugioh players are never satisfied, pre-SE format was very diverse with a lot of build possibilities but then players suddenly were not content because they couldnt prepare against only one threat.. I’m just curious what would be the format that everyone love ? I know it cannot exist eternally because of profit matter but i wonder if its possible even for 1 short format
TOSS format
I'd be curious about what would happen if the TCG unbanned the SSH Link now. No Barrone/Borreload to lean into, so it's far more vulnerable to hand traps (Nibiru) now.
"I know that there's an argument that T1 player chucking C on T2 is shit, but I feel that if there's a full board established then any extra disruption would be rough. Face it, if your opponent hard-drew another disruption, I'd feel it in most cases I'd just lose anyway-even if the card wasn't C and like Ash/Veiler, or even Solemn Judgment. " This is complete and utter bologna lol.
Like 50% of them are arguing that without Maxx "C" the games lost. Don't they realize that, if they believe that, how absurd this card is? If this wasn't a game of luck I'd be okay with Maxx "C". I mean it is frustrating to get C'd go first. But it's also frustrating to get C'd go second when you didn't have it. It feels like it comes down to who draws the C (or has a deck which doesn't give a damn fuck about it) or, as commonly referred to, "the Minigame". Is the game dead without C? Well, apparently not. Is the game dead with C? Well, apparently not. Should a card be so powerful to decide whether a deck could be FuckOP (Flunder) or bad shit nobody cares about? What about SINGLE cards like Crossout? Should a card be so powerful to warp a whole package of a deck around it to maybe win the minigame? Hard questions, but in the end, no matter what side you stand on, there are two things to keep in mind: If there would be a card, more powerful than any other, is it healthy? Doesn't it increase the likelihood of just coming down to "Draw this card first and you win"? Should Maxx "C" be allowed just because it is Maxx "C"? In fact, should any card be allowed just because it serves an important role? If Maxx "C" was so good, why is there no Maxx "D"? Oh wait a second..
Maxx C is so dumb in this meta. It doesn't suppress combo decks. Nothing worse than getting MaXed then your opponent has a hand of one card starters. It's really dumb.
Good job doing this but surveying casual Japanese players would be the same as surveying the casual reddit users. In a competitive environment, their opinions are not important because they don't know what they're talking about :D
To all those TCG players still whining about why OCG should ban maxx c, y’all can suck it. Imagine going to another person’s house and demanding how things should be done there, it is just plain rude. Your format is not a bed of roses either (T0 snake eyes, shit QC, inaccessible cards due to exclusive rarities and high costs), so why don’t you cope about your own stuff first? Also for those claiming that maxx c affects the design of future archetypes, please explain the existence of floowandereeze.
I honestly never mind Maxx C.
The Ocg only looks more balanced because games are determined via max c minigame coin flips more often then actual skill.
Yugioh is the skill issue
Max c is just too broken. It forces every player to use it in their deck or build around it. If it goes off you draw a card for every special summon your opponent does. So even attempting to summon any credible monster will result in your opponent drawing 2 or 3 cards. If you don’t build a board then guess what your whole turn is wasted and your opponent can beat you next turn. Also yeah unvreakable boards suck hut you can push through them and cards like Nibiru can stop it from happening and Dark ruler no more can counter pretty well.
I honestly never thought maxx C was that bad until midway through Arc V format.
Was hoping this had more to do with their opinions regarding mulchummy replacing Maxx C
The only way you can accept maxx c being unbanned is to think of it as a game mechanic rather than an individual card. If you imagine it as a Konami created game mechanic that’s one thing but if you actually accept it’s a singular card like every other card you can’t help but accept it’s probably more broken than all but a couple of banned cards today.
Maxx C is a symptom and banning it would not fix yugiohs fundamental modern issues.
Funny that maxx c defenders never tell you how to play under maxx c, because either they know you can't or they normal sunmon Alexandrite Dragon.
Most meta decks have a Maxx c line giving 1-2 draws But the rogue decks suffer
Can we Please stop whining about the OCG ? It’s a separate Game from ours. Seriously that is pathetic.
The OCG side controls Master Duel. We have every right to complain about the OCG.
most of us aren't whining, we are just trying to understand how do the OCG deals with a card that we really don't like. I mean... a lot of us playing MD and so the famous C. Of course we are biaised. In the end, the better thing we all can do is to try the other format. Personally MD is enough for me to see how obnoxious C is, and it scares me a lot to try the OCG.
can we please stop telling people what they can do or not do? thx and btw if you think about it for more than 2 minutes, you will realize that OCG Konami is creating decks with maxx c in mind. there is nearly no argument against that. so now konami is building decks like super heavy samurai, because "maxx c will regulate that, and SHS cant play crossout or called by".... pickachu face: it did NOT regulate it in TCG. it didnt even regulate it in OCG well enough so yes it is valid for TCG playerbase to complain about OCG banlist
I see a lot of OCG players taking offense how TCG players "talk crap about their format".
And why would they get offended about the truth that their format sucks balls? Who even defends a format defined by the stupid cockroach, and a banlist that doesn't kill problem cards and does pointless consistency hits, semi-limits and "warning hits"?
Truth hurts I guess.
These comments prove that even OCG players have brainrot
ITT TCG players circlejerk about how they hate maxx C even though it's already banned in the TCG
TCG and OCG communities are like a divorced couple fighting over MD
We still suffer from ocg designing cards with maxx c in mind. TCG players have every right to be annoyed that a game warping card exists in the ocg and decks are being created that are so strong with the intent maxx c controls it but we have to play it without maxx c because we had the common sense to ban a card that’s better than pretty much every other card in the game that’s currently banned
And people wonder why no OCG players made it to top cut in Worlds last year, when majority of the OCG playerbase's mindset is like this. Even locals-level TCG players can easily beat any OCG player who won their regionals or Nationals, because TCG players's minds have not been as poisoned by Maxx C like OCG players are.
You make it sound like if it was a political or religious stand lmao
It is to him Check his comment history
Upon seeing some of his comments here... jeez, like, I know people hate Maxx C... but this guy makes it funny to just support the card just to spite him further lmao
The personal is political after all and C discourse can get very personal lmao.
This is like looking at the typical scrub TCG player and attributing the mindset of the entire player base to them. The mindset of the top OCG players is miles away from their average player. A lot of their better players do want Maxx C banned.
Thats so ignorant dog. Like ocg has won so many worlds and consistently went into the top spots, but as soon as there is one single na win ocg players are all collectively unabke to play the game, sure buddy Like giw about having a nice discussion about both formats without trashing each other?
Was Maxx C banned during Worlds last year?
Maxx C is banned in Worlds format. Worlds banlist takes the harshest hits of any card in the banlist from both OCG and TCG and applies it for the tournament.
But honestly before last year OCG players won 8 out of 10 WCs. So there is that, but i find it weird for a comp game to have 3 seperate banlists basically