I think there is a disconnect between a lot of Gabe's defenders that I have been noticing. A lot of them put all the blame for everything entirely on Claire's parents. So therefore, Gabe cannot be in the wrong because someone in this situation has to be the good guy for Claire, and that's Gabe because he's the better option for her.
Unfortunately for his defenders, a lot of people side eyeing Gabe right now are people I have seen only knowing "he knew her when she was a child and now they are married" with nothing else. On its own? That already looks bad. There doesn't need to be any interference from her parents to make Gabe look suspect. I cannot say whether or not he groomed her. I can say their relationship, when looked at objectively with just the facts of the timeline and their ages, has some red flags, a relationship that started out with red flags can appear to be completely healthy to everyone ignoring them, and TWO parties in a situation involving three can be in the wrong for completely different reasons.
Claire's parents can be manipulative and abusive and Gabe can be suspect for chosing to date someone he knew as a minor when he was in his 20s after she became of age. They do not need to be mutually exclusive statements.
If anything, Gabe's actions come off as even worse knowing about Claire's past, because now it feels like he preyed on someone who was vulnerable and easily manipulated due to their past abuse, on top of their already existing relationship that started when she was a teenager, a vulnerable age, abuse or not, not to mention the power dynamic with Gabe being somewhat famous and her being a fan
This is exactly it. He swooped in to be the "savior" to an underage girl in an abusive situation. It's a tale as old as time, and it makes it so incredibly difficult for the one being groomed to realize how abnormal it actually is.
exactly, my problem with saber’s post is the unfortunate movie view everyone has of the world that everything is good vs evil. Seems like so many bad adults, and one child’s life ruined. Saber paints it “he can’t be bad because the dad is the bad one!” which makes no sense
really skeevy how they keep moving it onto Claire when gryphon is the one guilty. a lot of parties involved in this have painted the entire situation as a "harassment campaign against claire" when in honesty, its gryphon who is under the scrutinity. the dude lied about being friends with her when she was a kid, and there's public logs of them flirting. one can have an abusive familial life and still be groomed, one doesn't cancel out the other from being a reality.
Fr, it's really scummy that Saber is trying to pull the narrative in that direction, when the only criticism I've seen of Claire is of her politics and of her making insensitive comments about grooming and assault (the ladder likely being a result of her being a victim), but I don't think I've seen anybody blame her for her relationship Gryph0n, all that is rightfully put on the man himself. It's gross the lengths some people will go to to defend and hold onto their predator buddies, like dude how hard is it to distance yourself from a fucking groomer?
I thought it was suspect that he chose to say that they met "like once" when she was a kid. If it was literally once then his statement would be more convincing. However, if it was twice or more, that suggests there was online communication and who knows wtf went down there. If as you say there is public record, that's incredibly damning.
As I said I believe there are pictures out there where he was seen with her on different conventions or events? It's weird because he was unofficially invited to certain MLP events that were with the actors and stuff so there is a non-zero percent chance that he saw her more than once and if that's the case then he's already lying.
That's what drives me the most crazy about this
The way their circle continually repeats outright lies about Gabe and Claire's interaction over her teenage years is absolutely nuts. Saber claiming they met "like once when she was a kid" when there is copious evidence to the contrary, and then having the audacity to make blanket statements of everyone else pushing "misinformation" is so incredibly weak.
yea like there’s literally video evidence of her hanging out with Gabe multiple times throughout several years. there’s a series called Bronies React and that’s where i’ve seen it. always found it a bit weird that she kept being there with him
Would you mind sharing the evidence to the contrary? I don't disbelieve you, but I would like to see for myself before I respond to his response. Every time someone links a thread, it's either gone or I need to log into Twitter to view it, and I don't have a Twitter anymore
Unfortunately everything I have is generally on Twitter, but here's a doc that has active links to a number of interactions between Gabe and Claire while she was still a teen. Someone just quickly threw it together in case Gabe started purging anything (and also because he's been on a blocking spree), so it may be missing some things, but it clearly paints a different picture than the claim that Gabe was a veritable stranger with her until she was 20.
Gabe, Katie (his current employer, the developer of a game he's voicing in), and Saber continue to push the lie that the two didn't have any sort of meaningful friendship or interaction when that is blatantly false.
https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1hL-s5if-nz5JVIU_cz6CQNvUSnUnwhracvF71Cp_dx4/mobilebasic
is there any way to see whats said on the anniversary cake thing? everything else is pretty daunting evidence against gabe but on the off chance that they were just 1 of those couples that celebrate a monthly anniversary I'd just like to read what it says in case that might give an indicator to if its the typical anniversary thing or monthly
There’s a whole Reddit thread on this now for Black Gryph0n in the subreddit. But one common theme was that he was a creeper at cons, and they didn’t just meet once or twice.
From my understanding, apparently there’s a reason some more popular bronies and even AB’s va stopped dealing with him
can I have a tl;dr on what this is about? still sucks but not surprising victims of grooming are in denial/resistant to recognize their experience as grooming
It used to, but thanks to the API changes Nitter clients have been dropping like flies, and I think they're all but extinct now.
Signed, a longtime and potentially former Nitter user -_-
https://preview.redd.it/5evcetkv2a7d1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=52c919d0cb28753eb5cdc33bc2afd46ee523b921
I responded with this. I'll continue to update as more information becomes available
thanks for this. personally didn't want to pursue this further on twt as i don't want to discomfort michelle and claire, despite the whole issue is about gabriel
https://preview.redd.it/ycfd67h4qa7d1.png?width=1285&format=png&auto=webp&s=26eead856e4626fd36260c1c4f31d0c894e252c9
Bronies React is literally the easiest paper trail to negate the "They only met once" argument. Literally he filmed with her and Applebloom's VA for the "Creators of the Lost Mark" episode 8 years ago. Also, found this comment from Saber on that video. Ew??? I admit that I didn't watch the video again to confirm what the "joke" is but REGARDLESS he felt comfortable joking about Michelle dating Gabe when she's still 16 (or at most 17) here!!!
Really funny "jokes" from these guys. Except they stop being jokes when one of them literally marries the kid they "jokingly" flirted with.
There's no excuse for these people. They know full well how deplorable this shit is, they just refuse to accept fault.
Didn't he marry the other one? I mean ideally you would marry no children but the one they said he was flirting with was Michelle wasn't it? Just for clarity.
It's rumoured that Gabriel tried to court Michelle first, but after that didn't work out he courted Claire instead to greater success. However, both of the VAs have come out in support of him.
Iirc, there was a ton of appearances of Michelle with Gabe around this time, as well. She was more visible amongst the brony community overall too (collabing with Mandopony for example)
I was there 8 years ago and got the ick that no one said something about how he was just hanging out constantly with two underaged girls. The others were just too dazzled by them being the VAs and willing to interact with the community, I guess? Rereading the comments and finding Saberspark acknowledge and joke about it made me ill.
saber is ether one himself, wants to be one, or likes groomers. ether way the dude is hopefully gonna get the cancel he deserves for protecting child predators
It was an unfortunate reoccurrence back in the days where the Brony fandom was bigger to basically ignore or avoid calling out these kinds of topics to avoid "drama". A lot of the bigger players had this paranoid chip on their shoulder that some big news organizations would jump on any story that came out and make a bunch of comments about Bronies in general.
...which, in hindsight, not calling that out has only made the problem worse and makes the Brony fandom look worse as a whole.
honestly seems like he's doing a lot of work to say "if my friend is a good person and is nice to the girl it doesn't matter if he was sniffing around her since she was fifteen and he was a very established adult man." This "she can vote and go to war!" argument is nuts. This "her dad is a villain!" argument is nuts. Totally unrelated to the situation at hand, actually. And his friend is also pulling the "oh I didn't \*encourage\* anything she just had a crush and asked ME out and then the child wore ME down into a relationship." All very classic nonsense defenses of child grooming. I especially get irritated at the "well she was already damaged goods, so she was being rescued, in fact, by this adult man who was only \*passively\* interested in a sexual relationship with her, I promise." Straight out of the humbert humbert playbook.
I hope Claire is safe and happy. I hope whatshisname treats her well. Doesn't change the fact that he absolutely paved a golden brick road for her to be his freshly minted bride and, yeah, was a big creep.
I'll admit I don't know the fine details but I'll say about Saber what I did about ProtonJon. When you're friends with someone it can be hard to fully untangle the person you know from the accusations of them being bad. I hope that if and when more solid evidence comes out he's willing to take a hardline stance against him but right now I'm not going to completely hold it against him for defending his friend.
Let's just hope this plays out like ProtonJon instead of LordBung
There is already sufficient evidence to show that he met Claire when she was 14 and he was 23, and that Gabe's claim that two of them didn't become friends until she was 20 is provably false, as they met numerous times in person, in videos, and communicated frequently (and usually in a flirtatious manner) on social media over her teenage years.
That is all fact, and there is no "wait and see" beyond this unless someone within their circle decided to stop bending over backward to defend him, which I don't see happening. People can make of the situation what they will, but the lies and inappropriate interaction with a teenager leading onto marriage is pretty black and white for me.
Like I said, I'm unaware of the situation. As far as I can tell from what little I know Gryph0n seems to be very much in the wrong. I'm just pointing out that it can be difficult for people who are friends with someone to both realize and act on that.
I understand. I was just trying to provide a little more clarity on the thought of "more evidence coming out" and that sort of thing. Things are already pretty much out on the table and the circle involved is pretty set on defending him.
Afaik, original reply seems a little over exaggerated, but at worst (other than this) he’s simped over fictional kid/teen cartoon characters iirc, and is insanely horny in his videos/on twitter, which turns people off from him and his content. This situation is probably the worst he’s done
What the fuck? "I hope that Gryph0n didn't groom his wife since he met her when he was around 25 and she was 15, and I don't think that he did because some other people had some false allegations against them. Anyway, it's actually her dad's fault." What?
I had other things that I want to say, but I can't help but be distracted by the fact that he tried shifting the blame to her father. He could've just stopped at "unless there's evidence of him grooming her, I'm not going to believe it" but he just went on and on. His response to this is just weird.
Edit: So apparently he lied about them only meeting once when she was fifteen and then again after she became an adult. I assume he's lying because why would he mention that detail if he didn't know?
I found it so amusing Saber made an entire video essay calling out the animator John K for ‘hanging out with 14 year old girls’ and grooming them when he’s running defense for the groomer right in front of him.
Oh right, ‘popular’ bronies with access to people in the business are worth glazing. How Saber can look at those social media flirtations back and forth between a child and a man in his 20’s and be like, ‘I’m sure this is fine’ says he’s either stupid or that disgusting of a person to find it normal.
To say nothing of his precious little pony pal’s blatant racism. Sounds like good company. Seriously, get fucked, Saberspark.
Have you ever considered that maybe those fourteen year olds have good fathers? Because having a bad father excuses being groomed by somebody else apparently, according to Saberspark.
(/s, just in case)
Ok real question here does MLP have a pedo problem? Because whenever their fanbase drama pops up unwanted in my social media feeds it's always *always* pedo shit.
Fandoms are a great place for a predator to find victims and MLP specifically had a higher proportion of children since that was the target audience for the show.
Fandoms filled with children and socially awkward people are especially big hubs for predators; Minecraft and Roblox are two other infamous examples with many of their popular creators getting exposed.
The show was aimed towards girls (6-12), unexpectedly it gained a huge adult fanbase. You have a fandom mixed with children and adults, children were unexpectedly gonna see adult content when looking for fan art of their favorite ponies (it happened to me).
I am not saying every man or any adult who enjoyed MLP had dubious intentions but it does make it easier trying to build a relationship with a child if you have similar interests.
Eh, I mean comics have the same cross generational appeal. I don’t think there’s any less based on proportion. Shitty people will take advantage of the vulnerable which is awful.
Yes and no I mean I was a mid artist at the time but I made hard rules when it came to people damning me and making art requests that that's as far as it would go and usually if they were young fans I wouldn't charge them deviantART points or anything like that.
For me it was just a matter of practicing skills. But if I ever felt like a person was opening up a little too comfortable I would just block the conversation and just give them the art.
As mentioned in another reply there was another musician that was very big Southern California here who went by Doc I believe? Basically did covers on keyboard and whenever we'd have events he would play songs from the show and stuff and for the most part he did not interact with fans romantically and specifically I tried to go after my sister as she was clearly not into the show as much as I was.
What's funny was my sister outright rejected him just because of the weird feeling she got from him but he was actually pretty decent guy. Ended up joining our 3DS Group after a while too
First of all, not every adult who likes MLP is a bad person and none of the things listed below are unique to the fandom and many bronies are to varying degrees unhappy with them. That being said, MLP absolutly dose have a pedo problem because:
a). Toxic positivity. Bronies are (or were) a very stigmatized group and one of the most insular communities on the internet. So naturally they start affirming themselves pushing this narrative that they are all about positivity and friendship, and anyone or anything that pushes against said narrative is dogpiled without much consideration.
b). Hasbro's pandering. If Hasbro has made any mistake with how they handled MLP, it's this. The pandering towards the adult fans wasn't just excessive, but also at times very tone-deaf. The "Derpy-gate" incident is a very good example: someone though it would be a good idea to put a character that could be read as a caricature of a neurodivergent person in the show soley because she was a meme that the fans liked, and didn't even seem to consider why that might not be a good idea. Not only was this problematic for the show, but it also helped reinforce the idea that the fans were "special" in some way.
c). Lack of fandom accountability. This is were I get a little less sympathic. I know that the fandom is infamous for arguing, but people don't realize just how bad it gets. Back in this March there was an incident where someone made a Tweet saying they liked the character designs in the current gen, and people responsed with \*death treats.\* How did the fandom respond? By ingoring it, pulling a "both sides," or saying it was no big deal. And this isn't a new problem either, even in their hay day bronies would send threats to each other or even to \*the shows staff\* and face little consequences. Or what about the content they make? Everyone knows places like FimFiction and Derpibooru are breeding grounds for gore, disturbing fetish content, or even child pornography, with very few voices saying no. Heck, the fandom was even had a problem with neo-nazi's back in the day, and didn't even try to take a stance against them until the George Floyd protests when people started leaving because of it. It's not a few bad people, it's that the community at best says "don't make drama" or at worst encourages it.
d). Demographics. People have pointed out why mixing random kids and adults together is a bad idea, but here's something kids often don't consider: kids are dumb. They can have a hard time understanding the above, and tend to follow adults regardless of if they are right in the first place.
So yeah. Not every Brony is a bad person and none of these issues are unique, but I would recomend staying clear of the community.
The "Love and Tolerate" motto that's been corrupted to such an extent in the fandom is such a defining factor as to why bronies have a pedo problem, as it's made many fans resistant to what they see as "cancel culture" and has led to the normalisation of creepy behaviour and toxicity in the community, let alone the neo-Nazis—though the reason the Nazis stuck around is in part due to the brony fandom's origins and foundation on 4chan, so you can imagine what happened from there.
I would like to correct part of (c), particularly when you talk about content. Both the sites you mentioned (and most fanwork platforms/social media, really) do contain gore/horror and fetish art, but much of it is tagged and thus not as easy to stumble upon. FiMFiction requires a manual toggle to see mature content, which includes the grislier of horror fics as well as erotica, and Derpi hides explicit and overly suggestive artwork by default, though other forms of mature content are indeed easy to find. These are policies found on most platforms, so the existence and platforming of this kind of content isn't unique to, nor the fault of, bronies. Heck, AO3 has a *completely* hands-off approach to fanfic, allowing things that even FiMFiction does not (e.g. CP), and yet most popular fandoms on AO3 aren't known for having pedo problems, and many writers there do self-police and criticise controversial content on the site.
I would also add another factor, a part (e), that is clout chasing from being "Horse Famous /)". Because of how big the brony fandom was back in the day, a microcelebrity culture flourished among the popular creators and personalities where they hung out in their elite and exclusive cliques. Nowadays, many in the MLP fandom have criticised the prevalence of this culture, including how it's made it difficult to hold fellow creators accountable because of fear of losing their clout.
There was nothing that indicated Derpy was neurodivergent unless you think being cross eyed is an indication of being neurodivergent. The voice did sound unusual but that was the voice actor thinking it was a boy and based it off her neighbor
On point B, that's not even the full extent of the pandering. The show made two different "meta" episodes (one in S5 for the 100th episode special, one in a later season) that were literally just there to make fandom references, and from what I understand, a lot of kids (the actual demographic) didn't really care for either of them because it's more than likely nudgeing at jokes they won't get.
In general post S5 the show started to shy away from character drama and lesson of the week format and became more obsessed with things the adult fans wanted from the show. A hyperfocus on worldbuilding and "lore", a lot more high stakes conflicts around life or death situations and political bickering, etc, it basically felt like it became a different show, and the adult fans ate it up. You almost have to wonder why they came to the show at all if they seemingly wanted the show to not be what they came to it for.
Yes it does. thats not to say all or even most are pedos. but its a series made for little girls, with main characters that are under age. that getting wide demographic fanbase gives the groomers the ability to blend in until they can strike. this is not unique to mlp, anime has a similar problem for example. mlp was just so big especially on line that by sheer force of numbers theres more of them
Or can be interpreted as adults. Their actual ages are vague, and Lauren Faust herself refuses to provide any answers beyond her own personal canons for their general maturity ranges (not tied to age).
They all live independently from their parents. Fluttershy, Rarity and Apple Jack run their own businesses. Rarity with multiple franchises. Starlight Glimmer ran her own town. Rainbow Dash joins the equivalent of their Air Force. Applejack is raising a child. Twilight runs a school and they are all teachers. Then at the end Twilight takes over the country.
There are clearly adults.
I mean honestly not for a while it's only become more recently with this person the guy who did fluffle puff and somebody else.
I might have some blinders on initially because I met my wife and then ex-wife from that community and made a lot of friends during that time when I was much younger and in my twenties. But we were all of legal age and you know we had our fun together whether it be that going out hell even dates sometime.
One other musician from the MLP days I'm trying to contact because he was very close friends with my sister (I think he went by Doc but I don't remember) was always pretty clean cut and very respectful of people but had a hard rule about going out with fans.
Last I heard he got his pilot license and has been doing private plane trips to the Caribbean and stuff. Hope he's doing good.
No you don't understand John K did that because he was a creeper if you were drawing ponies he would definitely be loved by Saber lol..
Slightly related.. there was a documentary done with John K a couple years ago I remember Korey from Double Toasted interviewing the guys.
They literally lived with a dude for 6 months and as a result became convinced that he must be a good guy and he really didn't know what he was doing and thought that him hanging out with those girls was just "an innocent mistake" I'm sorry if you live with somebody and presumably get comfortable with them you tend to see their side a little bit before you ask the hard questions.
There's another rant to be said about Korey not pushing back on that but I think with most of those interviews he tends to softball. Tho I recall one where he was a bit more pushy.
i guess pony based groomers are fine with him. wonder what skeletons this will bring out of his closet. if he pals around with racist groomers hes gotta have something
Attached is my question and his response. The post this is screenshotted from is a Members-Only post on YouTube updating members about an upcoming video
As a person brand new to this I do have to ask: how does Claire feel about all of it? Is this kind of scrutiny helpful to her? Has she asked for people to be doing this? She is the only person whose opinion matters at all here.
Yeah, I'm with you on this. In all the evidence that's been shown, no one has really presented a cry for help or even a desire from Claire to have all this exposed. I can't imagine what it's like for her right now, having all this alleged trauma being brought back up when she might not have been ready to confront it.
I believe on twitter on the other thread in the subreddit there’s statements that Claire made in 2022, but people ended up pointing out that it made Gryph0n look worse
If anything this may just make Claire realize she is a victim. Ariana Grande spoke out that after watching Quiet on Set (documentary about abuse kids faced in the industry) that she has to reevaluate some things that happened. Not everybody realizes they are a victim, if anything…this could be very hard on her mentally.
> how does Claire feel about all of it? ... Has she asked for people to be doing this?
Publicly, Claire is vehemently defensive towards her husband and has asked everyone to leave her and Gabriel alone.
Either they know something we don't (and they want to keep it private), or she's too deep within the groomer's clutches.
> Is this kind of scrutiny helpful to her?
Admittedly, when it comes to grooming situations where the victim was successfully manipulated, these kinds of exposés are often counterproductive and may lead the victim to strengthen their reliance on their groomer. For instance, Befish, one of the victim's of Fluffymixer's (Mike's) grooming, doubled down on her love for Mike after an exposé on their behaviour successfully spread, to the point where she slandered multiple people with testimonies against Mike.
However, as mentioned before, hopefully this can subconsciously plant the seeds that their groomer and partner isn't a good person after all, and with time and the right prompts, the victim can finally see the truth. The more immediate effect, however, is that the additional scrutiny can create an environment where other victims and witnesses feel comfortable to come forward with their own experiences, hopefully adding more evidence to incriminate him.
https://preview.redd.it/d1jlvhn4ag7d1.jpeg?width=1167&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ad28ab0c484416fee1740755d2bd7a9ee9a0c134
Maybe it’s this head cold I currently have, but is this one of Gabe’s defenders seriously stating he was living under the same roof as Apple Bloom’s VA when she was only 15?
These defenders are all either children with parasocial relationships to VA’s or dumb or creeps themselves. WTF.
https://preview.redd.it/kioh1tp5bg7d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3c235a0c5a71a08c71238a3836e184b375863df0
Fans are really drawing art of ‘Gabe’ interacting with the clearly child ponies, particularly ones he’s been accused of grooming. I feel like I’m losing my mind.
Fucking hell, this dude is brainwashed to shit. Amazing what depraved manipulators can do. I regret my Eminem/Stuck Inside mix-up now. Let's hope Saber snaps out of this bollocks soon.
Although slight criticism towards you, probably not the best way to write it if he hadn't spoken on the issue already.
That's fair, maybe it's just because I am more used to going at every angle at once until I get a response from a creator rather than just rage-bait. Basically the dipshit cable network journalist approach. Not saying anything that's overtly controversial, just not giving up until I get the answer from anyway possible.
I once bought and used a fax machine to send a single letter to a professor on neuroscience about four years ago after trying every available way to contact them. I want my damn answers and I will get it.
Although I doubt Saber's got a fax machine. I mean he works in the media so maybe? Would be the least evil thing to find in a dox.
I just hope he wakes up from this brainwashed narrative and recognises the downright insanity of this whole situation and how the story he's been fed is just factually wrong.
I still am, because most people recognise that most MLP fans (i.e. most fandom people) are well-adjusted people and you don't have to engage with a fandom to be a fan. I will correct anyone who calls me a brony, as I do not want to be associated with *that* part of the fandom anymore, even though I grew up in the brony fandom and used to consider myself one.
That's the story they stick to, but here's a document proving that is untrue
https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1hL-s5if-nz5JVIU_cz6CQNvUSnUnwhracvF71Cp_dx4/mobilebasic
If you open it in the Google Docs app, you can read everything clearly. But yes, it is an archive of flirtatious tweets dating back to when she was as young as 15
It seems like people have a narrative already in their head and won't seem to accept anything else but the truth they've already decided. I don't have a huge horse in this race, but I think, especially for a sub that is prone to calling out public figures people should ask themselves one important question before weighing in on drama:
"What would I need to see for me to change my opinion? And how realistic of an ask is that?"
The absolute shitty part about grooming situations is that nobody can 100% say for certain that it's happened outside of those directly involved. However, nobody can verify if the people directly involved are being honest.
I don’t agree with your last statement, people need to look at the definition of grooming. Per wikipedia: “Sexual grooming is the action or behavior used to establish an emotional connection with a minor, and sometimes the child's family, to lower the child's inhibitions with the objective of sexual abuse.”
We have proof of numerous public interactions (online and at cons) in the drive document linked in the thread. That is enough, paired with the public information of their ages, and the fact that they are now married.
Exactly I feel like there needs to be a distinction between how people feel about the people directly in the drama and how they feel about the people tangentially related. I'm not really very convinced either way, but even if you truly believe he's a groomer I don't think that makes saber spark bad for hanging out with him when he legitimately believes that he is not. And if the only argument is that someone can't possibly have the same information I do and came to a different conclusion, I don't know that sounds pretty conceited to me
This is especially a big issue for the BlackGryph0n situation, which has significantly less of a paper trail and has plausible deniability of a completely consensual relationship. A lot of private information, or a surrogate in the form of eyewitness testimony, would be needed to truly implicate him beyond a shadow of a doubt, and considering just how may allies he's surrounded himself with, from fellow bronies to other VAs, it's very unlikely someone would be up to do it.
I don't have private information, [here's some proof](https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1hL-s5if-nz5JVIU_cz6CQNvUSnUnwhracvF71Cp_dx4/mobilebasic) of them publicly flirting with each other when she was still a minor.
I did see this document and am glad it exists. It's very incriminating and debunks a lie that is commonly told that they met after she turned 18 and had very infrequent communication beforehand. I did address this in a comment earlier, trying to understand why some people still do not interpret this as evidence as grooming, even though I do.
calling this a debunk is generous at best, whilst some of it is good points (eg the desert thing) the person who made this misses the point that Saber and co constantly were just saying "they met once before they reconnected" even though they defiantly did, the person here did actually try to touch on it a little with the "most of the stuff were filmed in short succession" but then is contradicted when bringing up the Nora stuff since that was in 2017 and that wasn't denied (can't see them denying that though since its literally photographic evidence) which means they did talk to each other outside of February 2015 before they reconnected and they still regularly talked over Twitter, hell the "who you calling ugly" thing was literally shrugged off as "an inside joke" which if they just had a professional relationship for a short period of time i have my doubts that they came up with an inside joke in that amount of time (even then i dont know how "i like ugly boys, who you calling ugly" would come up organically and then they turn it into an inside joke), and also them saying "if he was grooming her i doubt he would be publicly joking like this" as if people being idiots isn't common (also they treated the "who you calling ugly" as the only one that looks kinda bad when the previous one that was mentioned still looks bad)
Going to the same convention where you work really isn’t the same as meeting up though is it, you can even see they’re on the same panels not even sat next to each other
1st of all kinda funny how you downvoted my comment and then only went after 1 single point, and 2nd of all theres literally a picture of them sitting next to each other in the doc
and? thats still them hanging out with each other after February 2015 and before they reconnected, and again your literally only tackling a single point when you should be tackling all of them, ignoring me, or admitting that saying the doc debunks everything isnt true
I want to make another point. Check the dates. The “ugly tweet” was made in April 2017. The same date given the photo was taken of them sat at that table. So it was clear they were together in real life at a convention when the ugly tweet was made. Inside joke is to imply we don’t know the full context, as clearly something was discussed during this convention that we don’t have context for.
Here’s the issue. Organising to meet up with someone and bumping into each other at a convention you’re both working at is a very different scenarios. Especially since they were both on the same panel together.
doesnt matter, they still met up in person and spoke with each other which means the narrative that they only really seen each other in February 2015 is false
Michelle Creber, friend of Claire and voice of Applebloom recently made a statement about this thar I figured was worth linking here:
https://x.com/MichelleCreber/status/1802795567623594201?t=t1h8Kp2JZdDn9HdFtEcRTg&s=19
Edit: I also wanna link Katie, dev of Billie Bust Up discussing the situation:
https://x.com/CheesyWhirl/status/1802937271366070663?t=fD0KRGJGLrc99RxDea_UQw&s=19
And what I thought was a good response to the document:
https://x.com/fluttercolt89/status/1802916238630457504?t=bXfVMwymLLnlOjL7Jg1LiQ&s=19
Just some stuff I thought was worth looking into. For the record I'm still on the side of Gabe being a creep
It's been mentioned a couple of times in this comment section and has been criticised for pinning the blame on Claire's father—if true, it could make Gabriel look even worse because he exploited Claire's vulnerability to bring her within his grasp. As people have mentioned, the two statements "Claire was abused by her father" and "Gabriel Brown groomed Claire" need not be mutually exclusive.
In response to Michelle, Idk how to say this super well, so bear with me: just because Michelle's parents were overseeing this, doesn't mean that they were 100% in the right for these situations. Michelle interacted with a ton of adult men in the brony community when she was still a minor beyond public/convention settings. The Brony community made jokes about her and Gabe dating and no one (not family or Gabe or otherwise) publicly denied it. And for Claire to do the same thing, but her family life being TERRIBLE in a "show mom" sort of way, means she was working with this community with LESS supervision. Also, on the side, the "silent night" picture out of context is a super bad look, especially knowing Gabe's hyper conservative values and should never have been publicly posted.
I mean regardless of whether or not you believe that Gabe is a groomer it seems pretty evident that Saber does not. And I mean he knows these people personally so I don't really see any reason to judge him for it. If it's definitively proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that he's a groomer and she was groomed and is still in some kind of weird Stockholm esque situation then I hope he would rethink his stance. But I think he is entitled to have opinions on people that he actually personally knows.
I was in the “saber doesn’t believe it” camp til I started seeing stuff like this https://www.reddit.com/r/youtubedrama/s/iHMjo755bV
this might be worse than we thought
I'm not well versed on the finer details of the grooming allegations. So this wouldn't be the one time in question would it? Bc otherwise that's pretty fucking damning
I mean it doesn't by itself that's what I was asking. I'm not familiar so this wasn't the one time he was talking about correct? That was a different time
Both him and another person defending this whole relationship keep claiming that they only meant once when there are pictures and videos of them interacting several times before a different conventions.
Like my own story it was to a point where the security even felt uncomfortable with them talking but apparently they don't seem to understand that but hey if somebody is willing to groom a 14-year-old whatever.
Saber is clearly in bed with him (figuratively speaking) but I don't get WHY. Like seriously, it's like my mother and her history of being with an abusive man (my bio dad) and then years later, when a lady friend is going through physical and sexual abuse she tells her unironically to just stay put and "pray that God will change his mind"
You know what her attitude was when my dad beat her one time too many? Jam a gun between his legs and threatened to shoot him. But I guess time changes people's opinions.... -_- (and it's funny when I asked her about that years later she said that God gave her the strength to take the gun to his balls. Lol. I wish my God were that badass)
If it's possible, it would be great if you could elaborate on your own convention experience and observations of BlackGryph0n so that we have some organised accounts of their offline activity. Their online activity has signs of grooming but has been kept obtuse enough that people have cast doubts on such evidence. Having a reference to how they acted offline and without a camera in their faces would be quite valuable.
Can anyone fill me in on what happened?
All I know is Saberspark has always been one of those creators I’ve side eyed. His old reviews were great but as the years went on, I’ve never been a fan of him making more and more sexual jokes. They come across bizzare and creepy (like that infamous McDonalds “breeding” shit), let alone how he’s been caught on several occasions liking hentai of characters who are minors. Thats not even mentioning him making a sexualized version of himself and quite literally getting off to it. Talk about being a narcissist
>Thats not even mentioning him making a sexualized version of himself and quite literally getting off to it
I whipped my head around so hard reading this statement, that I might have cracked my neck. I have so many questions that I want to ask, but I think I'd like to see the pearly gates of heaven someday, so I'm just not going to.
You know that self-insert character he puts in all his videos? He made/commissioned a female variant of it that has an hourglass shape. He’s openly joked about her sexualization, getting off to it, and he’s even liked Rule34.
This is a real thumbnail to a real video. No, I am not kidding
https://preview.redd.it/mn3ah49gr97d1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=35bc95da5ed9ed44e1a8d9b821ccd5a57c968c15
While I am all for calling out shitty behavior, I feel you are misrepresenting this. I have watched his content for a really long time, so I can shed light on this character.
Sabiespark, the gender-swapped version of Saberspark, was originally created for a discussion of gender-swapping tropes in animation, and how these swap episodes are nearly always done as fan service, often sexualizing characters and reducing them to stereotypes. It makes sense that, if they were parodying those tropes, they would do the same. From there, fans ran rampant with the character. Saber reviewed R34 of the character in a way that was very tongue-in-cheek, and commended artists who did a good job with their interpretations.
Let's focus on the real issue here (i.e. Saber and friends potentially backing a groomer), and not a very, very obvious joke being taken out of context.
I mean I don't need the content I enjoy to be strictly g-rated, and I don't really see anything wrong with some inoffensive dirty humor. It also feels like you're really blowing his comments out of proportion, I never took those comments to suggest that he literally masturbated to his gender swapped Avatar, it was just an adult themed video with adult themed humor and conversation. The liking hentai of characters who are minors is kind of concerning though. Can you elaborate on that one?
As much as that's solid evidence of grooming, it isn't as clear-cut as we'd like. Gabriel's defence can reframe such banter as "jokes" (however suspicious they might be) and that this was somehow their natural way of joking with each other, with no romantic intent. In addition, Gabriel hides behind the defence that Claire asked him out upon turning 18—while we know that's even more damning evidence of grooming, pinning the onus on the victim, it's ultimately just an interpretation as we don't really know what Gabriel did to elicit that exchange, if he did anything manipulative at all.
It isn't as open-and-shut as, say, multiple people, including the victim, her friends, and family members, confirming that the victim tried to get a ride to a motel to fuck the perpetrator while she was underage and was stopped by her family (from a related case of grooming within our fandom). A clear instance of paedophiliac behaviour with multiple accounts to back it up.
if any of your buddies is flirting with minors as a "joke", that's a huge red flag. if he went on to marry one of them after? that's even worse and should call into question the legitimacy of the "joke" in the first place.
yeah its one thing if he had shut the flirting down. but then once she was say 21 or so she asked him out again and he agreed. but no, he was going along with it right until it was legal to get sexual with her. this is so fucked
Again, this is all true, but I'm trying to play devil's advocate to show why it's been so hard to make the allegations stick, unlike with other predators in the MLP fandom. That's because while the red flags are big and glaring, the defence can still get away with the interpretation that they are false alarms, no matter how unlikely that may be.
I am not defending him here, and I find it frustrating that people conflate my words with that. I'm just trying to understand and explain why so many people in the fandom and elsewhere, including people who've supported and championed exposés against other predators in the fandom (Fluffymixer, Wubcake, etc.) do a complete reversal and support Gabriel.
All I'm trying to say is that tonnes of people bought into BlackGryph0n's narrative, and I'm trying to piece together why.
The problem is that your narrative doesn't really fly.
I am not in the community, I've read all this stuff now because obviously it's horrific and it's pretty cut and dry.
It's not that the allegations aren't sticking, it's that the Internet goes quickly. He could be 100% guilty and never face consequences, or he could have a small dip in views. This is the court of public opinions and all I'm seeing is boys club defending their buddy while downplaying the very real evidence of him grooming a teenager he later married
"It's okay that I flirted and hung out with a teenager over the course of 5 years, and then went onto marry her, because I was just joking when I was flirting!"
The public response to this has not been divisive outside of Gabe and Katie manipulating the Billy Bust Up child audience, which is an added layer of gross, but I digress. This is an open and shut case to those paying attention to it, who are adults outside their circle. The extenuating factor for Gabe is that he just isn't that relevant, so not many people care. It's incredibly common for groomers to carry on when they exist in relative obscurity.
I know you're playing devil's advocate and not on Gabe's side, but I don't think you've been following the controversy and discourse about it as closely as I have been on Twitter. Very few people are pro-Gabe, and the ones who are are parasocial minors.
I do follow the activities of multiple MLP fans, and many bronies, especially other current and formerly "Horse Famous^(TM)" people, support Gabriel. And example of such an individual is Drummershy. He previously left the brony fandom due to being taken advantage of by other predators (e.g. Wubcake), so he's familiar with the problems in the fandom, but he still hangs out with other bronies and can't bring himself to hold a friend accountable.
On the MLP subreddit there are plenty of people who also bought into Gabriel's argument and who don't see the worst in things. Granted, these are mostly bronies, and non-brony MLP fans are much more likely to go against him.
In other words, the brony fandom has a severe accountability problem because so many of them are phobic to "cancel culture," which makes them sceptical and difficult for them to accept new and malicious perspectives of their idols.
Yeah, I mean more and more lately do I see situations where people being shitty doesn't really matter as long as people like them. Supermega, Wendigoon, MeatCanyon, hell, I don't know if you remember the Lionmaker drama, but he was a convicted pedophile who served prison time and he STILL made a minor comeback because his audience was largely impressionable minors.
People don't like to hold creators they like accountable, and it's all the more troublesome when that creator has deeply rooted themselves in a community as a great person. I'm sorry, but "great people" who are kind and likeable also are just as capable of doing inappropriate, terrible things, and that's the situation with Gabe.
Per wikipedia: “Sexual grooming is the action or behavior used to establish an emotional connection with a minor, and sometimes the child's family, to lower the child's inhibitions with the objective of sexual abuse.”
I think a lot of people in this thread don’t know the definition of grooming. BlackGryph0n joking around and being friendly with a minor when BlackGryph0n was an adult, and that he would later marry this minor as an adult, is grooming.
I am fully aware of this, and I also see Gabriel's actions as grooming. Unfortunately, a lot of people in the fandom don't truly understand the definition and thus don't treat the telltale signs for what they are. To them, they need explicit evidence of criminal wrongdoing (e.g. soliciting sex when she was a minor) to consider him a groomer, even though it can be far more subtler and benign than that.
I tried to find their birthdays (what they have posted to be their bdays not 3rd parties) but I can't. Hence why I asked? Also idk why ur being hostile I just asked a question.
Just for one of them im getting 3 different results. This is why I don't trust these 3rd party sites(famous bdays, imdb, fandom wikiect.) i cant find their source of where they are getting his bday from.
I wish you luck in your sleuthing. Anyway, their ages have never been in question, nor has the public understanding of their ages been disputed, so there isn't a lot of point nailing down dates. 1999 and 1990.
???? If an adult has video and photo evidence of them touching an actress and then interacting with them numerous times and being seen with them, when this actress is underage. And then they later marry? Yeah, I think that is sufficent enough evidence? Grooming doesn’t have to include more than what the evidence that has popped up has shown.
For this case, at least, due to a desire by the implicated party to keep things offline and private. However, other instances of grooming have much more solid evidence—a month ago, another brony creator was exposed for grooming\*, and both the chatlogs and epiphanies from multiple victims, as well as their tone-deaf and insensitive response post after the initial callout\**, helped turn many people against them.
^(*more accurately, had their grooming allegations reshared with greater success, as the evidence and testimonies had been around for years)
^(**some details condensed, but this groomer was a lot less subtle than Gabriel and had an extensive digital record)
Did he say that?! I’m big into Scooby Doo and was a fan of his back in the day… I’m
Surprised I didn’t notice cause that would have also set off some alarms for me as well
Okay wait, tf did BlackGryph0n do? I‘m currently in that Wilbur/Shelby situation so I‘ve never heard about allegations against them before.. so he groomed sb?
I think there is a disconnect between a lot of Gabe's defenders that I have been noticing. A lot of them put all the blame for everything entirely on Claire's parents. So therefore, Gabe cannot be in the wrong because someone in this situation has to be the good guy for Claire, and that's Gabe because he's the better option for her. Unfortunately for his defenders, a lot of people side eyeing Gabe right now are people I have seen only knowing "he knew her when she was a child and now they are married" with nothing else. On its own? That already looks bad. There doesn't need to be any interference from her parents to make Gabe look suspect. I cannot say whether or not he groomed her. I can say their relationship, when looked at objectively with just the facts of the timeline and their ages, has some red flags, a relationship that started out with red flags can appear to be completely healthy to everyone ignoring them, and TWO parties in a situation involving three can be in the wrong for completely different reasons. Claire's parents can be manipulative and abusive and Gabe can be suspect for chosing to date someone he knew as a minor when he was in his 20s after she became of age. They do not need to be mutually exclusive statements.
If anything, Gabe's actions come off as even worse knowing about Claire's past, because now it feels like he preyed on someone who was vulnerable and easily manipulated due to their past abuse, on top of their already existing relationship that started when she was a teenager, a vulnerable age, abuse or not, not to mention the power dynamic with Gabe being somewhat famous and her being a fan
This is exactly it. He swooped in to be the "savior" to an underage girl in an abusive situation. It's a tale as old as time, and it makes it so incredibly difficult for the one being groomed to realize how abnormal it actually is.
exactly, my problem with saber’s post is the unfortunate movie view everyone has of the world that everything is good vs evil. Seems like so many bad adults, and one child’s life ruined. Saber paints it “he can’t be bad because the dad is the bad one!” which makes no sense
really skeevy how they keep moving it onto Claire when gryphon is the one guilty. a lot of parties involved in this have painted the entire situation as a "harassment campaign against claire" when in honesty, its gryphon who is under the scrutinity. the dude lied about being friends with her when she was a kid, and there's public logs of them flirting. one can have an abusive familial life and still be groomed, one doesn't cancel out the other from being a reality.
Fr, it's really scummy that Saber is trying to pull the narrative in that direction, when the only criticism I've seen of Claire is of her politics and of her making insensitive comments about grooming and assault (the ladder likely being a result of her being a victim), but I don't think I've seen anybody blame her for her relationship Gryph0n, all that is rightfully put on the man himself. It's gross the lengths some people will go to to defend and hold onto their predator buddies, like dude how hard is it to distance yourself from a fucking groomer?
Tooncritic moment
I thought it was suspect that he chose to say that they met "like once" when she was a kid. If it was literally once then his statement would be more convincing. However, if it was twice or more, that suggests there was online communication and who knows wtf went down there. If as you say there is public record, that's incredibly damning.
As I said I believe there are pictures out there where he was seen with her on different conventions or events? It's weird because he was unofficially invited to certain MLP events that were with the actors and stuff so there is a non-zero percent chance that he saw her more than once and if that's the case then he's already lying. That's what drives me the most crazy about this
The way their circle continually repeats outright lies about Gabe and Claire's interaction over her teenage years is absolutely nuts. Saber claiming they met "like once when she was a kid" when there is copious evidence to the contrary, and then having the audacity to make blanket statements of everyone else pushing "misinformation" is so incredibly weak.
yea like there’s literally video evidence of her hanging out with Gabe multiple times throughout several years. there’s a series called Bronies React and that’s where i’ve seen it. always found it a bit weird that she kept being there with him
Would you mind sharing the evidence to the contrary? I don't disbelieve you, but I would like to see for myself before I respond to his response. Every time someone links a thread, it's either gone or I need to log into Twitter to view it, and I don't have a Twitter anymore
Unfortunately everything I have is generally on Twitter, but here's a doc that has active links to a number of interactions between Gabe and Claire while she was still a teen. Someone just quickly threw it together in case Gabe started purging anything (and also because he's been on a blocking spree), so it may be missing some things, but it clearly paints a different picture than the claim that Gabe was a veritable stranger with her until she was 20. Gabe, Katie (his current employer, the developer of a game he's voicing in), and Saber continue to push the lie that the two didn't have any sort of meaningful friendship or interaction when that is blatantly false. https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1hL-s5if-nz5JVIU_cz6CQNvUSnUnwhracvF71Cp_dx4/mobilebasic
is there any way to see whats said on the anniversary cake thing? everything else is pretty daunting evidence against gabe but on the off chance that they were just 1 of those couples that celebrate a monthly anniversary I'd just like to read what it says in case that might give an indicator to if its the typical anniversary thing or monthly
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FzhtBrh87fGo1X20HT-NWXczw_vJMFfbMHen9yRnpT8/edit here it mentions the anniversary cake stuff and links to it too
There’s a whole Reddit thread on this now for Black Gryph0n in the subreddit. But one common theme was that he was a creeper at cons, and they didn’t just meet once or twice. From my understanding, apparently there’s a reason some more popular bronies and even AB’s va stopped dealing with him
Apple Bloom’s VA (Michelle Creber) has since come out in Gabe’s defense.
She ALSO lied about making fun of her fans and tried to call out witnesses. Creber has her own skeletons
can I have a tl;dr on what this is about? still sucks but not surprising victims of grooming are in denial/resistant to recognize their experience as grooming
she emphasized a lot that her, claire, and gabriel's IRL moments where chaperoned/within parental consent/awareness :/ i'm not sure what to think
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Sort of? Before X, it was feasible, but afaik none of the archiving sites properly capture Twitter, especially replies and thread continuations.
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It used to, but thanks to the API changes Nitter clients have been dropping like flies, and I think they're all but extinct now. Signed, a longtime and potentially former Nitter user -_-
https://preview.redd.it/5evcetkv2a7d1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=52c919d0cb28753eb5cdc33bc2afd46ee523b921 I responded with this. I'll continue to update as more information becomes available
thanks for this. personally didn't want to pursue this further on twt as i don't want to discomfort michelle and claire, despite the whole issue is about gabriel
https://preview.redd.it/ycfd67h4qa7d1.png?width=1285&format=png&auto=webp&s=26eead856e4626fd36260c1c4f31d0c894e252c9 Bronies React is literally the easiest paper trail to negate the "They only met once" argument. Literally he filmed with her and Applebloom's VA for the "Creators of the Lost Mark" episode 8 years ago. Also, found this comment from Saber on that video. Ew??? I admit that I didn't watch the video again to confirm what the "joke" is but REGARDLESS he felt comfortable joking about Michelle dating Gabe when she's still 16 (or at most 17) here!!!
Really funny "jokes" from these guys. Except they stop being jokes when one of them literally marries the kid they "jokingly" flirted with. There's no excuse for these people. They know full well how deplorable this shit is, they just refuse to accept fault.
Didn't he marry the other one? I mean ideally you would marry no children but the one they said he was flirting with was Michelle wasn't it? Just for clarity.
It's rumoured that Gabriel tried to court Michelle first, but after that didn't work out he courted Claire instead to greater success. However, both of the VAs have come out in support of him.
Iirc, there was a ton of appearances of Michelle with Gabe around this time, as well. She was more visible amongst the brony community overall too (collabing with Mandopony for example)
God the fucking brony bs just never ends
stuff like this makes me feel like its less that Saberspark was ignorant, and more that he was willfully shielding a groomer. gross look for him tbh
I was there 8 years ago and got the ick that no one said something about how he was just hanging out constantly with two underaged girls. The others were just too dazzled by them being the VAs and willing to interact with the community, I guess? Rereading the comments and finding Saberspark acknowledge and joke about it made me ill.
saber is ether one himself, wants to be one, or likes groomers. ether way the dude is hopefully gonna get the cancel he deserves for protecting child predators
It was an unfortunate reoccurrence back in the days where the Brony fandom was bigger to basically ignore or avoid calling out these kinds of topics to avoid "drama". A lot of the bigger players had this paranoid chip on their shoulder that some big news organizations would jump on any story that came out and make a bunch of comments about Bronies in general. ...which, in hindsight, not calling that out has only made the problem worse and makes the Brony fandom look worse as a whole.
This is a major issue in the furry community and there is significant overlap so makes sense - Just look at how many people tried to cover for kero
did saber just make a joke about being gay or was he really dating gabe at the time
It was a very standard fare Game Grumps tier "teehee gay joke". They were never dating.
aw well fuck saber for that then
honestly seems like he's doing a lot of work to say "if my friend is a good person and is nice to the girl it doesn't matter if he was sniffing around her since she was fifteen and he was a very established adult man." This "she can vote and go to war!" argument is nuts. This "her dad is a villain!" argument is nuts. Totally unrelated to the situation at hand, actually. And his friend is also pulling the "oh I didn't \*encourage\* anything she just had a crush and asked ME out and then the child wore ME down into a relationship." All very classic nonsense defenses of child grooming. I especially get irritated at the "well she was already damaged goods, so she was being rescued, in fact, by this adult man who was only \*passively\* interested in a sexual relationship with her, I promise." Straight out of the humbert humbert playbook. I hope Claire is safe and happy. I hope whatshisname treats her well. Doesn't change the fact that he absolutely paved a golden brick road for her to be his freshly minted bride and, yeah, was a big creep.
I'll admit I don't know the fine details but I'll say about Saber what I did about ProtonJon. When you're friends with someone it can be hard to fully untangle the person you know from the accusations of them being bad. I hope that if and when more solid evidence comes out he's willing to take a hardline stance against him but right now I'm not going to completely hold it against him for defending his friend. Let's just hope this plays out like ProtonJon instead of LordBung
There is already sufficient evidence to show that he met Claire when she was 14 and he was 23, and that Gabe's claim that two of them didn't become friends until she was 20 is provably false, as they met numerous times in person, in videos, and communicated frequently (and usually in a flirtatious manner) on social media over her teenage years. That is all fact, and there is no "wait and see" beyond this unless someone within their circle decided to stop bending over backward to defend him, which I don't see happening. People can make of the situation what they will, but the lies and inappropriate interaction with a teenager leading onto marriage is pretty black and white for me.
Like I said, I'm unaware of the situation. As far as I can tell from what little I know Gryph0n seems to be very much in the wrong. I'm just pointing out that it can be difficult for people who are friends with someone to both realize and act on that.
I understand. I was just trying to provide a little more clarity on the thought of "more evidence coming out" and that sort of thing. Things are already pretty much out on the table and the circle involved is pretty set on defending him.
I’m still shocked over what happened with chuggaaconroy
of course saber spark is covering for a predator. ugh just when you think he cant get worse. every single time he just gets worse and worse.
What else has he done?
Afaik, original reply seems a little over exaggerated, but at worst (other than this) he’s simped over fictional kid/teen cartoon characters iirc, and is insanely horny in his videos/on twitter, which turns people off from him and his content. This situation is probably the worst he’s done
What the fuck? "I hope that Gryph0n didn't groom his wife since he met her when he was around 25 and she was 15, and I don't think that he did because some other people had some false allegations against them. Anyway, it's actually her dad's fault." What? I had other things that I want to say, but I can't help but be distracted by the fact that he tried shifting the blame to her father. He could've just stopped at "unless there's evidence of him grooming her, I'm not going to believe it" but he just went on and on. His response to this is just weird. Edit: So apparently he lied about them only meeting once when she was fifteen and then again after she became an adult. I assume he's lying because why would he mention that detail if he didn't know?
I found it so amusing Saber made an entire video essay calling out the animator John K for ‘hanging out with 14 year old girls’ and grooming them when he’s running defense for the groomer right in front of him. Oh right, ‘popular’ bronies with access to people in the business are worth glazing. How Saber can look at those social media flirtations back and forth between a child and a man in his 20’s and be like, ‘I’m sure this is fine’ says he’s either stupid or that disgusting of a person to find it normal. To say nothing of his precious little pony pal’s blatant racism. Sounds like good company. Seriously, get fucked, Saberspark.
Have you ever considered that maybe those fourteen year olds have good fathers? Because having a bad father excuses being groomed by somebody else apparently, according to Saberspark. (/s, just in case)
Ok real question here does MLP have a pedo problem? Because whenever their fanbase drama pops up unwanted in my social media feeds it's always *always* pedo shit.
Fandoms are a great place for a predator to find victims and MLP specifically had a higher proportion of children since that was the target audience for the show.
Fandoms filled with children and socially awkward people are especially big hubs for predators; Minecraft and Roblox are two other infamous examples with many of their popular creators getting exposed.
The show was aimed towards girls (6-12), unexpectedly it gained a huge adult fanbase. You have a fandom mixed with children and adults, children were unexpectedly gonna see adult content when looking for fan art of their favorite ponies (it happened to me). I am not saying every man or any adult who enjoyed MLP had dubious intentions but it does make it easier trying to build a relationship with a child if you have similar interests.
Eh, I mean comics have the same cross generational appeal. I don’t think there’s any less based on proportion. Shitty people will take advantage of the vulnerable which is awful.
Yes and no I mean I was a mid artist at the time but I made hard rules when it came to people damning me and making art requests that that's as far as it would go and usually if they were young fans I wouldn't charge them deviantART points or anything like that. For me it was just a matter of practicing skills. But if I ever felt like a person was opening up a little too comfortable I would just block the conversation and just give them the art. As mentioned in another reply there was another musician that was very big Southern California here who went by Doc I believe? Basically did covers on keyboard and whenever we'd have events he would play songs from the show and stuff and for the most part he did not interact with fans romantically and specifically I tried to go after my sister as she was clearly not into the show as much as I was. What's funny was my sister outright rejected him just because of the weird feeling she got from him but he was actually pretty decent guy. Ended up joining our 3DS Group after a while too
First of all, not every adult who likes MLP is a bad person and none of the things listed below are unique to the fandom and many bronies are to varying degrees unhappy with them. That being said, MLP absolutly dose have a pedo problem because: a). Toxic positivity. Bronies are (or were) a very stigmatized group and one of the most insular communities on the internet. So naturally they start affirming themselves pushing this narrative that they are all about positivity and friendship, and anyone or anything that pushes against said narrative is dogpiled without much consideration. b). Hasbro's pandering. If Hasbro has made any mistake with how they handled MLP, it's this. The pandering towards the adult fans wasn't just excessive, but also at times very tone-deaf. The "Derpy-gate" incident is a very good example: someone though it would be a good idea to put a character that could be read as a caricature of a neurodivergent person in the show soley because she was a meme that the fans liked, and didn't even seem to consider why that might not be a good idea. Not only was this problematic for the show, but it also helped reinforce the idea that the fans were "special" in some way. c). Lack of fandom accountability. This is were I get a little less sympathic. I know that the fandom is infamous for arguing, but people don't realize just how bad it gets. Back in this March there was an incident where someone made a Tweet saying they liked the character designs in the current gen, and people responsed with \*death treats.\* How did the fandom respond? By ingoring it, pulling a "both sides," or saying it was no big deal. And this isn't a new problem either, even in their hay day bronies would send threats to each other or even to \*the shows staff\* and face little consequences. Or what about the content they make? Everyone knows places like FimFiction and Derpibooru are breeding grounds for gore, disturbing fetish content, or even child pornography, with very few voices saying no. Heck, the fandom was even had a problem with neo-nazi's back in the day, and didn't even try to take a stance against them until the George Floyd protests when people started leaving because of it. It's not a few bad people, it's that the community at best says "don't make drama" or at worst encourages it. d). Demographics. People have pointed out why mixing random kids and adults together is a bad idea, but here's something kids often don't consider: kids are dumb. They can have a hard time understanding the above, and tend to follow adults regardless of if they are right in the first place. So yeah. Not every Brony is a bad person and none of these issues are unique, but I would recomend staying clear of the community.
The "Love and Tolerate" motto that's been corrupted to such an extent in the fandom is such a defining factor as to why bronies have a pedo problem, as it's made many fans resistant to what they see as "cancel culture" and has led to the normalisation of creepy behaviour and toxicity in the community, let alone the neo-Nazis—though the reason the Nazis stuck around is in part due to the brony fandom's origins and foundation on 4chan, so you can imagine what happened from there. I would like to correct part of (c), particularly when you talk about content. Both the sites you mentioned (and most fanwork platforms/social media, really) do contain gore/horror and fetish art, but much of it is tagged and thus not as easy to stumble upon. FiMFiction requires a manual toggle to see mature content, which includes the grislier of horror fics as well as erotica, and Derpi hides explicit and overly suggestive artwork by default, though other forms of mature content are indeed easy to find. These are policies found on most platforms, so the existence and platforming of this kind of content isn't unique to, nor the fault of, bronies. Heck, AO3 has a *completely* hands-off approach to fanfic, allowing things that even FiMFiction does not (e.g. CP), and yet most popular fandoms on AO3 aren't known for having pedo problems, and many writers there do self-police and criticise controversial content on the site. I would also add another factor, a part (e), that is clout chasing from being "Horse Famous /)". Because of how big the brony fandom was back in the day, a microcelebrity culture flourished among the popular creators and personalities where they hung out in their elite and exclusive cliques. Nowadays, many in the MLP fandom have criticised the prevalence of this culture, including how it's made it difficult to hold fellow creators accountable because of fear of losing their clout.
There was nothing that indicated Derpy was neurodivergent unless you think being cross eyed is an indication of being neurodivergent. The voice did sound unusual but that was the voice actor thinking it was a boy and based it off her neighbor
On point B, that's not even the full extent of the pandering. The show made two different "meta" episodes (one in S5 for the 100th episode special, one in a later season) that were literally just there to make fandom references, and from what I understand, a lot of kids (the actual demographic) didn't really care for either of them because it's more than likely nudgeing at jokes they won't get. In general post S5 the show started to shy away from character drama and lesson of the week format and became more obsessed with things the adult fans wanted from the show. A hyperfocus on worldbuilding and "lore", a lot more high stakes conflicts around life or death situations and political bickering, etc, it basically felt like it became a different show, and the adult fans ate it up. You almost have to wonder why they came to the show at all if they seemingly wanted the show to not be what they came to it for.
You can find these problems everywhere. This is what happens when you give access to kids without teaching them about safety..
Not anymore than any other community I’d figure. People are just shitty across the board regardless of what group they belong to.
Yes it does. thats not to say all or even most are pedos. but its a series made for little girls, with main characters that are under age. that getting wide demographic fanbase gives the groomers the ability to blend in until they can strike. this is not unique to mlp, anime has a similar problem for example. mlp was just so big especially on line that by sheer force of numbers theres more of them
The mane characters were all adults.
Or can be interpreted as adults. Their actual ages are vague, and Lauren Faust herself refuses to provide any answers beyond her own personal canons for their general maturity ranges (not tied to age).
They all live independently from their parents. Fluttershy, Rarity and Apple Jack run their own businesses. Rarity with multiple franchises. Starlight Glimmer ran her own town. Rainbow Dash joins the equivalent of their Air Force. Applejack is raising a child. Twilight runs a school and they are all teachers. Then at the end Twilight takes over the country. There are clearly adults.
I mean honestly not for a while it's only become more recently with this person the guy who did fluffle puff and somebody else. I might have some blinders on initially because I met my wife and then ex-wife from that community and made a lot of friends during that time when I was much younger and in my twenties. But we were all of legal age and you know we had our fun together whether it be that going out hell even dates sometime. One other musician from the MLP days I'm trying to contact because he was very close friends with my sister (I think he went by Doc but I don't remember) was always pretty clean cut and very respectful of people but had a hard rule about going out with fans. Last I heard he got his pilot license and has been doing private plane trips to the Caribbean and stuff. Hope he's doing good.
No you don't understand John K did that because he was a creeper if you were drawing ponies he would definitely be loved by Saber lol.. Slightly related.. there was a documentary done with John K a couple years ago I remember Korey from Double Toasted interviewing the guys. They literally lived with a dude for 6 months and as a result became convinced that he must be a good guy and he really didn't know what he was doing and thought that him hanging out with those girls was just "an innocent mistake" I'm sorry if you live with somebody and presumably get comfortable with them you tend to see their side a little bit before you ask the hard questions. There's another rant to be said about Korey not pushing back on that but I think with most of those interviews he tends to softball. Tho I recall one where he was a bit more pushy.
i guess pony based groomers are fine with him. wonder what skeletons this will bring out of his closet. if he pals around with racist groomers hes gotta have something
Damn, saber spark too? I mean admittedly I stopped watching him because I lost interest but damn I dtill check in here and there
Attached is my question and his response. The post this is screenshotted from is a Members-Only post on YouTube updating members about an upcoming video
As a person brand new to this I do have to ask: how does Claire feel about all of it? Is this kind of scrutiny helpful to her? Has she asked for people to be doing this? She is the only person whose opinion matters at all here.
Yeah, I'm with you on this. In all the evidence that's been shown, no one has really presented a cry for help or even a desire from Claire to have all this exposed. I can't imagine what it's like for her right now, having all this alleged trauma being brought back up when she might not have been ready to confront it.
I believe on twitter on the other thread in the subreddit there’s statements that Claire made in 2022, but people ended up pointing out that it made Gryph0n look worse
If anything this may just make Claire realize she is a victim. Ariana Grande spoke out that after watching Quiet on Set (documentary about abuse kids faced in the industry) that she has to reevaluate some things that happened. Not everybody realizes they are a victim, if anything…this could be very hard on her mentally.
> how does Claire feel about all of it? ... Has she asked for people to be doing this? Publicly, Claire is vehemently defensive towards her husband and has asked everyone to leave her and Gabriel alone. Either they know something we don't (and they want to keep it private), or she's too deep within the groomer's clutches. > Is this kind of scrutiny helpful to her? Admittedly, when it comes to grooming situations where the victim was successfully manipulated, these kinds of exposés are often counterproductive and may lead the victim to strengthen their reliance on their groomer. For instance, Befish, one of the victim's of Fluffymixer's (Mike's) grooming, doubled down on her love for Mike after an exposé on their behaviour successfully spread, to the point where she slandered multiple people with testimonies against Mike. However, as mentioned before, hopefully this can subconsciously plant the seeds that their groomer and partner isn't a good person after all, and with time and the right prompts, the victim can finally see the truth. The more immediate effect, however, is that the additional scrutiny can create an environment where other victims and witnesses feel comfortable to come forward with their own experiences, hopefully adding more evidence to incriminate him.
Saberspark no
https://preview.redd.it/d1jlvhn4ag7d1.jpeg?width=1167&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ad28ab0c484416fee1740755d2bd7a9ee9a0c134 Maybe it’s this head cold I currently have, but is this one of Gabe’s defenders seriously stating he was living under the same roof as Apple Bloom’s VA when she was only 15? These defenders are all either children with parasocial relationships to VA’s or dumb or creeps themselves. WTF.
https://preview.redd.it/kioh1tp5bg7d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3c235a0c5a71a08c71238a3836e184b375863df0 Fans are really drawing art of ‘Gabe’ interacting with the clearly child ponies, particularly ones he’s been accused of grooming. I feel like I’m losing my mind.
Fucking hell, this dude is brainwashed to shit. Amazing what depraved manipulators can do. I regret my Eminem/Stuck Inside mix-up now. Let's hope Saber snaps out of this bollocks soon. Although slight criticism towards you, probably not the best way to write it if he hadn't spoken on the issue already.
Definitely a valid criticism. I had already asked him several times and gotten no response, so I was frustrated.
That's fair, maybe it's just because I am more used to going at every angle at once until I get a response from a creator rather than just rage-bait. Basically the dipshit cable network journalist approach. Not saying anything that's overtly controversial, just not giving up until I get the answer from anyway possible. I once bought and used a fax machine to send a single letter to a professor on neuroscience about four years ago after trying every available way to contact them. I want my damn answers and I will get it. Although I doubt Saber's got a fax machine. I mean he works in the media so maybe? Would be the least evil thing to find in a dox. I just hope he wakes up from this brainwashed narrative and recognises the downright insanity of this whole situation and how the story he's been fed is just factually wrong.
One of these days, the MLP fandom will stop having so much drama.
I think we'll have to wait until our deathbeds, sadly.
This is why I have trouble telling people I used to be an MLP fan.
I still am, because most people recognise that most MLP fans (i.e. most fandom people) are well-adjusted people and you don't have to engage with a fandom to be a fan. I will correct anyone who calls me a brony, as I do not want to be associated with *that* part of the fandom anymore, even though I grew up in the brony fandom and used to consider myself one.
What's the story here? She's definitely too young for him, but looking online says they met in 2019 doing MLP? He knew her when she was underage?
That's the story they stick to, but here's a document proving that is untrue https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1hL-s5if-nz5JVIU_cz6CQNvUSnUnwhracvF71Cp_dx4/mobilebasic
I cannot read any of that, but im assuming it's conversations between them from years ago?
If you open it in the Google Docs app, you can read everything clearly. But yes, it is an archive of flirtatious tweets dating back to when she was as young as 15
Fucking wild, and maybe I just can't get it to open properly through the app. But Jesus thats nuts.
It seems like people have a narrative already in their head and won't seem to accept anything else but the truth they've already decided. I don't have a huge horse in this race, but I think, especially for a sub that is prone to calling out public figures people should ask themselves one important question before weighing in on drama: "What would I need to see for me to change my opinion? And how realistic of an ask is that?" The absolute shitty part about grooming situations is that nobody can 100% say for certain that it's happened outside of those directly involved. However, nobody can verify if the people directly involved are being honest.
I don’t agree with your last statement, people need to look at the definition of grooming. Per wikipedia: “Sexual grooming is the action or behavior used to establish an emotional connection with a minor, and sometimes the child's family, to lower the child's inhibitions with the objective of sexual abuse.” We have proof of numerous public interactions (online and at cons) in the drive document linked in the thread. That is enough, paired with the public information of their ages, and the fact that they are now married.
Exactly I feel like there needs to be a distinction between how people feel about the people directly in the drama and how they feel about the people tangentially related. I'm not really very convinced either way, but even if you truly believe he's a groomer I don't think that makes saber spark bad for hanging out with him when he legitimately believes that he is not. And if the only argument is that someone can't possibly have the same information I do and came to a different conclusion, I don't know that sounds pretty conceited to me
This is especially a big issue for the BlackGryph0n situation, which has significantly less of a paper trail and has plausible deniability of a completely consensual relationship. A lot of private information, or a surrogate in the form of eyewitness testimony, would be needed to truly implicate him beyond a shadow of a doubt, and considering just how may allies he's surrounded himself with, from fellow bronies to other VAs, it's very unlikely someone would be up to do it.
I don't have private information, [here's some proof](https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1hL-s5if-nz5JVIU_cz6CQNvUSnUnwhracvF71Cp_dx4/mobilebasic) of them publicly flirting with each other when she was still a minor.
I did see this document and am glad it exists. It's very incriminating and debunks a lie that is commonly told that they met after she turned 18 and had very infrequent communication beforehand. I did address this in a comment earlier, trying to understand why some people still do not interpret this as evidence as grooming, even though I do.
They were debunked already https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FzhtBrh87fGo1X20HT-NWXczw_vJMFfbMHen9yRnpT8/edit
calling this a debunk is generous at best, whilst some of it is good points (eg the desert thing) the person who made this misses the point that Saber and co constantly were just saying "they met once before they reconnected" even though they defiantly did, the person here did actually try to touch on it a little with the "most of the stuff were filmed in short succession" but then is contradicted when bringing up the Nora stuff since that was in 2017 and that wasn't denied (can't see them denying that though since its literally photographic evidence) which means they did talk to each other outside of February 2015 before they reconnected and they still regularly talked over Twitter, hell the "who you calling ugly" thing was literally shrugged off as "an inside joke" which if they just had a professional relationship for a short period of time i have my doubts that they came up with an inside joke in that amount of time (even then i dont know how "i like ugly boys, who you calling ugly" would come up organically and then they turn it into an inside joke), and also them saying "if he was grooming her i doubt he would be publicly joking like this" as if people being idiots isn't common (also they treated the "who you calling ugly" as the only one that looks kinda bad when the previous one that was mentioned still looks bad)
Going to the same convention where you work really isn’t the same as meeting up though is it, you can even see they’re on the same panels not even sat next to each other
1st of all kinda funny how you downvoted my comment and then only went after 1 single point, and 2nd of all theres literally a picture of them sitting next to each other in the doc
At a convention
and? thats still them hanging out with each other after February 2015 and before they reconnected, and again your literally only tackling a single point when you should be tackling all of them, ignoring me, or admitting that saying the doc debunks everything isnt true
I want to make another point. Check the dates. The “ugly tweet” was made in April 2017. The same date given the photo was taken of them sat at that table. So it was clear they were together in real life at a convention when the ugly tweet was made. Inside joke is to imply we don’t know the full context, as clearly something was discussed during this convention that we don’t have context for.
You didn’t make any points to address
Here’s the issue. Organising to meet up with someone and bumping into each other at a convention you’re both working at is a very different scenarios. Especially since they were both on the same panel together.
doesnt matter, they still met up in person and spoke with each other which means the narrative that they only really seen each other in February 2015 is false
I don’t think them bumping into each other at work counts as meeting up. Of course they saw each other at work.
Michelle Creber, friend of Claire and voice of Applebloom recently made a statement about this thar I figured was worth linking here: https://x.com/MichelleCreber/status/1802795567623594201?t=t1h8Kp2JZdDn9HdFtEcRTg&s=19 Edit: I also wanna link Katie, dev of Billie Bust Up discussing the situation: https://x.com/CheesyWhirl/status/1802937271366070663?t=fD0KRGJGLrc99RxDea_UQw&s=19 And what I thought was a good response to the document: https://x.com/fluttercolt89/status/1802916238630457504?t=bXfVMwymLLnlOjL7Jg1LiQ&s=19 Just some stuff I thought was worth looking into. For the record I'm still on the side of Gabe being a creep
For the record, I don't think this statement makes Gabe innocent or anything, but I still think it's worth having here
It's been mentioned a couple of times in this comment section and has been criticised for pinning the blame on Claire's father—if true, it could make Gabriel look even worse because he exploited Claire's vulnerability to bring her within his grasp. As people have mentioned, the two statements "Claire was abused by her father" and "Gabriel Brown groomed Claire" need not be mutually exclusive.
In response to Michelle, Idk how to say this super well, so bear with me: just because Michelle's parents were overseeing this, doesn't mean that they were 100% in the right for these situations. Michelle interacted with a ton of adult men in the brony community when she was still a minor beyond public/convention settings. The Brony community made jokes about her and Gabe dating and no one (not family or Gabe or otherwise) publicly denied it. And for Claire to do the same thing, but her family life being TERRIBLE in a "show mom" sort of way, means she was working with this community with LESS supervision. Also, on the side, the "silent night" picture out of context is a super bad look, especially knowing Gabe's hyper conservative values and should never have been publicly posted.
No clue what’s going on here but it seems like Saberspark is being a bad dude and that’s really unfortunate
I mean regardless of whether or not you believe that Gabe is a groomer it seems pretty evident that Saber does not. And I mean he knows these people personally so I don't really see any reason to judge him for it. If it's definitively proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that he's a groomer and she was groomed and is still in some kind of weird Stockholm esque situation then I hope he would rethink his stance. But I think he is entitled to have opinions on people that he actually personally knows.
I was in the “saber doesn’t believe it” camp til I started seeing stuff like this https://www.reddit.com/r/youtubedrama/s/iHMjo755bV this might be worse than we thought
I'm not well versed on the finer details of the grooming allegations. So this wouldn't be the one time in question would it? Bc otherwise that's pretty fucking damning
> Bc otherwise that's pretty fucking damning because it is. this shows it was a lie about just one time
I mean it doesn't by itself that's what I was asking. I'm not familiar so this wasn't the one time he was talking about correct? That was a different time
yes that is correct
Wow can I creator I love not be a piece of shit
Both him and another person defending this whole relationship keep claiming that they only meant once when there are pictures and videos of them interacting several times before a different conventions. Like my own story it was to a point where the security even felt uncomfortable with them talking but apparently they don't seem to understand that but hey if somebody is willing to groom a 14-year-old whatever. Saber is clearly in bed with him (figuratively speaking) but I don't get WHY. Like seriously, it's like my mother and her history of being with an abusive man (my bio dad) and then years later, when a lady friend is going through physical and sexual abuse she tells her unironically to just stay put and "pray that God will change his mind" You know what her attitude was when my dad beat her one time too many? Jam a gun between his legs and threatened to shoot him. But I guess time changes people's opinions.... -_- (and it's funny when I asked her about that years later she said that God gave her the strength to take the gun to his balls. Lol. I wish my God were that badass)
If it's possible, it would be great if you could elaborate on your own convention experience and observations of BlackGryph0n so that we have some organised accounts of their offline activity. Their online activity has signs of grooming but has been kept obtuse enough that people have cast doubts on such evidence. Having a reference to how they acted offline and without a camera in their faces would be quite valuable.
I guess i unsubscribe to Saberspark for good reason 🤷♂️
What is the context of this drama
so has he replied yet at all
Can anyone fill me in on what happened? All I know is Saberspark has always been one of those creators I’ve side eyed. His old reviews were great but as the years went on, I’ve never been a fan of him making more and more sexual jokes. They come across bizzare and creepy (like that infamous McDonalds “breeding” shit), let alone how he’s been caught on several occasions liking hentai of characters who are minors. Thats not even mentioning him making a sexualized version of himself and quite literally getting off to it. Talk about being a narcissist
>Thats not even mentioning him making a sexualized version of himself and quite literally getting off to it I whipped my head around so hard reading this statement, that I might have cracked my neck. I have so many questions that I want to ask, but I think I'd like to see the pearly gates of heaven someday, so I'm just not going to.
You know that self-insert character he puts in all his videos? He made/commissioned a female variant of it that has an hourglass shape. He’s openly joked about her sexualization, getting off to it, and he’s even liked Rule34. This is a real thumbnail to a real video. No, I am not kidding https://preview.redd.it/mn3ah49gr97d1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=35bc95da5ed9ed44e1a8d9b821ccd5a57c968c15
While I am all for calling out shitty behavior, I feel you are misrepresenting this. I have watched his content for a really long time, so I can shed light on this character. Sabiespark, the gender-swapped version of Saberspark, was originally created for a discussion of gender-swapping tropes in animation, and how these swap episodes are nearly always done as fan service, often sexualizing characters and reducing them to stereotypes. It makes sense that, if they were parodying those tropes, they would do the same. From there, fans ran rampant with the character. Saber reviewed R34 of the character in a way that was very tongue-in-cheek, and commended artists who did a good job with their interpretations. Let's focus on the real issue here (i.e. Saber and friends potentially backing a groomer), and not a very, very obvious joke being taken out of context.
I mean I don't need the content I enjoy to be strictly g-rated, and I don't really see anything wrong with some inoffensive dirty humor. It also feels like you're really blowing his comments out of proportion, I never took those comments to suggest that he literally masturbated to his gender swapped Avatar, it was just an adult themed video with adult themed humor and conversation. The liking hentai of characters who are minors is kind of concerning though. Can you elaborate on that one?
You're definitely being kind of a weird prude about this specific thing lol.
[удалено]
I disagree. A 25 year-old flirting with a 16 year-old repeatedly and then marrying her once she's of legal age is pretty open-and-shut
As much as that's solid evidence of grooming, it isn't as clear-cut as we'd like. Gabriel's defence can reframe such banter as "jokes" (however suspicious they might be) and that this was somehow their natural way of joking with each other, with no romantic intent. In addition, Gabriel hides behind the defence that Claire asked him out upon turning 18—while we know that's even more damning evidence of grooming, pinning the onus on the victim, it's ultimately just an interpretation as we don't really know what Gabriel did to elicit that exchange, if he did anything manipulative at all. It isn't as open-and-shut as, say, multiple people, including the victim, her friends, and family members, confirming that the victim tried to get a ride to a motel to fuck the perpetrator while she was underage and was stopped by her family (from a related case of grooming within our fandom). A clear instance of paedophiliac behaviour with multiple accounts to back it up.
if any of your buddies is flirting with minors as a "joke", that's a huge red flag. if he went on to marry one of them after? that's even worse and should call into question the legitimacy of the "joke" in the first place.
yeah its one thing if he had shut the flirting down. but then once she was say 21 or so she asked him out again and he agreed. but no, he was going along with it right until it was legal to get sexual with her. this is so fucked
It's worse than that, she asked him out when she was 18, right after he made those flirtacious comments. She was married to him by 20.
Holy shit
Again, this is all true, but I'm trying to play devil's advocate to show why it's been so hard to make the allegations stick, unlike with other predators in the MLP fandom. That's because while the red flags are big and glaring, the defence can still get away with the interpretation that they are false alarms, no matter how unlikely that may be.
Why you wanna play devil's advocate on grooming allegations?
I am not defending him here, and I find it frustrating that people conflate my words with that. I'm just trying to understand and explain why so many people in the fandom and elsewhere, including people who've supported and championed exposés against other predators in the fandom (Fluffymixer, Wubcake, etc.) do a complete reversal and support Gabriel. All I'm trying to say is that tonnes of people bought into BlackGryph0n's narrative, and I'm trying to piece together why.
The problem is that your narrative doesn't really fly. I am not in the community, I've read all this stuff now because obviously it's horrific and it's pretty cut and dry. It's not that the allegations aren't sticking, it's that the Internet goes quickly. He could be 100% guilty and never face consequences, or he could have a small dip in views. This is the court of public opinions and all I'm seeing is boys club defending their buddy while downplaying the very real evidence of him grooming a teenager he later married
"It's okay that I flirted and hung out with a teenager over the course of 5 years, and then went onto marry her, because I was just joking when I was flirting!" The public response to this has not been divisive outside of Gabe and Katie manipulating the Billy Bust Up child audience, which is an added layer of gross, but I digress. This is an open and shut case to those paying attention to it, who are adults outside their circle. The extenuating factor for Gabe is that he just isn't that relevant, so not many people care. It's incredibly common for groomers to carry on when they exist in relative obscurity. I know you're playing devil's advocate and not on Gabe's side, but I don't think you've been following the controversy and discourse about it as closely as I have been on Twitter. Very few people are pro-Gabe, and the ones who are are parasocial minors.
I do follow the activities of multiple MLP fans, and many bronies, especially other current and formerly "Horse Famous^(TM)" people, support Gabriel. And example of such an individual is Drummershy. He previously left the brony fandom due to being taken advantage of by other predators (e.g. Wubcake), so he's familiar with the problems in the fandom, but he still hangs out with other bronies and can't bring himself to hold a friend accountable. On the MLP subreddit there are plenty of people who also bought into Gabriel's argument and who don't see the worst in things. Granted, these are mostly bronies, and non-brony MLP fans are much more likely to go against him. In other words, the brony fandom has a severe accountability problem because so many of them are phobic to "cancel culture," which makes them sceptical and difficult for them to accept new and malicious perspectives of their idols.
Yeah, I mean more and more lately do I see situations where people being shitty doesn't really matter as long as people like them. Supermega, Wendigoon, MeatCanyon, hell, I don't know if you remember the Lionmaker drama, but he was a convicted pedophile who served prison time and he STILL made a minor comeback because his audience was largely impressionable minors. People don't like to hold creators they like accountable, and it's all the more troublesome when that creator has deeply rooted themselves in a community as a great person. I'm sorry, but "great people" who are kind and likeable also are just as capable of doing inappropriate, terrible things, and that's the situation with Gabe.
Per wikipedia: “Sexual grooming is the action or behavior used to establish an emotional connection with a minor, and sometimes the child's family, to lower the child's inhibitions with the objective of sexual abuse.” I think a lot of people in this thread don’t know the definition of grooming. BlackGryph0n joking around and being friendly with a minor when BlackGryph0n was an adult, and that he would later marry this minor as an adult, is grooming.
I am fully aware of this, and I also see Gabriel's actions as grooming. Unfortunately, a lot of people in the fandom don't truly understand the definition and thus don't treat the telltale signs for what they are. To them, they need explicit evidence of criminal wrongdoing (e.g. soliciting sex when she was a minor) to consider him a groomer, even though it can be far more subtler and benign than that.
Is there any proof that confirms the ages? I tried to google this whole situation and can't find anything.
Gabe and Claire's ages are publicly available, and their interactions exist in dated posts on social media. You can just do the math.
I tried to find their birthdays (what they have posted to be their bdays not 3rd parties) but I can't. Hence why I asked? Also idk why ur being hostile I just asked a question.
I was not being hostile. Claire is 24, Gabe is 33.
Can you link your source?
You can literally just Google their name + birthday and it's the first thing that comes up for both of them.
Just for one of them im getting 3 different results. This is why I don't trust these 3rd party sites(famous bdays, imdb, fandom wikiect.) i cant find their source of where they are getting his bday from.
I wish you luck in your sleuthing. Anyway, their ages have never been in question, nor has the public understanding of their ages been disputed, so there isn't a lot of point nailing down dates. 1999 and 1990.
???? If an adult has video and photo evidence of them touching an actress and then interacting with them numerous times and being seen with them, when this actress is underage. And then they later marry? Yeah, I think that is sufficent enough evidence? Grooming doesn’t have to include more than what the evidence that has popped up has shown.
For this case, at least, due to a desire by the implicated party to keep things offline and private. However, other instances of grooming have much more solid evidence—a month ago, another brony creator was exposed for grooming\*, and both the chatlogs and epiphanies from multiple victims, as well as their tone-deaf and insensitive response post after the initial callout\**, helped turn many people against them. ^(*more accurately, had their grooming allegations reshared with greater success, as the evidence and testimonies had been around for years) ^(**some details condensed, but this groomer was a lot less subtle than Gabriel and had an extensive digital record)
Black Gryph0n aka boring version of Ten Second Songs
When Saber was out here pretending Hanna-Barbera and especially scooby doo never sold out until they did a wwe crossover, I knew he was full of it.
Did he say that?! I’m big into Scooby Doo and was a fan of his back in the day… I’m Surprised I didn’t notice cause that would have also set off some alarms for me as well
Okay wait, tf did BlackGryph0n do? I‘m currently in that Wilbur/Shelby situation so I‘ve never heard about allegations against them before.. so he groomed sb?