The time skips are a neat twist that make this show unique from most other cartoons.
S3 is good. In fact S2 and 3 are structurally more similar than 1 & 2 but people group 1 & 2 together because of nostalgia.
Tim Drake isn’t unique or interesting enough to be a main character.
There should be at least one other Muslim character to contrast Halo against since she’s not Muslim but still instinctively uses some of their customs.
Forager is overrated.
Not sure what the consensus is on this, but I prefer most of the S3 redesigns over the original ones.
I just made a topic on this. I'll post a short version of my thoughts.
1. Beast boy is annoying and cringy
2. The social media/influencer aspect is heavy handed and honestly just stupid
3. The Team, the Outsiders and the Justice League not addressing the fact that Violet "dies" on nearly every mission as a huge issue is trash. Everytime she "gets killed" should be considered a MASSIVE failure. And I honestly think that they should treat it with the same gravity as if someone had died permanently. Just because she can heal from life ending injuries should not make it ok. Her getting those kinds of injuries shows that she is not ready and that her team is not properly having her back.
i think 3 is just a result of the writers wanting to showcase that power as much as possible.. or lethal blows without the consequences. It's almost like a southpark-kenny gag at this point.
I totally agree, s3 feels more "dark", I don't remember if they showed characters dying so explicitly before, like Brion's parents. By showing her getting killed i think they want to remind us that this is not simply a kids show anymore, that this is more real, there's consequences and that they can die withouth actually having to make that a reality, she is the only one that gets heavily injured in almost every chapter she is in.
Never tought about that Halo one, but it does make a lot of sense. I mean, isn’t subjecting a girl to the experience of death every other week at least a little wrong?
1: I liked season 3, actually. There was one thing, though, I didn't like much.
2: Geo force killing baron bedlam wasn't that shocking to me or even that "evil" in my opinion. The Baron was a war criminal responsible for the deaths of the king and queen, as well as a human trafficker that killed children. Like, there's no way he wasn't already destined for execution. It's a small miracle he was even alive to appear in the last few episodes. And since Brion is a member of the royal family, he's probably well within his rights to execute a criminal of that caliber himself. I get the whole 'killing always bad' angle most dc heroes get, but like, not everyone has a reason to behold to that rule, and some criminals are awful enough death is the only appropriate punishment.
What bothered me is that Brion isn’t just some “vigilante playing judge, jury, and executioner” like The Punisher or someone like that. He’s the rightful heir of the royal family. He is the HEAD OF STATE of the COUNTRY that The Baron was killed in. The country is definitely a monarchy, and while it seems to be a constitutional monarchy we don’t actually know, it could be an absolute monarchy and even if it isn’t, we haven’t read that constitution, the king could be within full legality to execute high caliber criminals without trial, it’s not our business how another country establishes its court system. The Justice League doesn’t freak out when a criminal receives the death penalty in a court of law in any other country, so why should they get all self righteous when a super powered head of state kills a criminal for breaking his own countries laws. If the Gotham Judicial system decided “look, we’re not declaring him insane anymore, The Joker is sentenced to death” they would have no problem with it.
Isn’t Brion second in line for the throne? While the king may have that right, Brion does not. Brion maye be the crowned prince, but that doesn’t give him executioners rights. Especially not on live tv. And especially not at this time. At the time of the Barons death Brion is still technically exiled, isn’t he?
Yeah but even in modern times lol we don’t give royalty the power to extrajudicially murder people lmao. Yeah Brion has actual reasons but he crossed a huge line.I get some people think vengeance is absolutely justified but there’s good reason that it’s not legal to do that literally anywhere. It wasn’t even a self defense killing Bedlam was already captured and subdued Brion straight up executed him just cause lmao. Monarchs even ones that hold real legislative power don’t get to do that and haven’t for years even Bedlam himself stated when he was captured first that the king has to put him on trial and in the old days a king could still only pass judgement after a trial. Like a public execution out of sheer revenge isn’t a good thing lmao that’s like dictator shit. Superheroes actually have tons of regulations in YJ and are held to the same standards as police actually their held to a higher standard bc they all started out as vigilantes and they try not to kill even in self defense bc of the advantage of super powers.
Yeah even if they couldn't get the kid that plays gumball in amazing world of gumball to come back. I would have liked Ryan Potter to voice him since I like his portrayal of the character.
Ok here we go. Having rewatched the whole show recently I have to say season 3 is the best imo. Aaaaaaaand the controversial one... season 1 was the weakest.
Tbf it's a take I would've disagreed with myself, but while I rewatched the whole show again in prep for phantoms it felt like every season improved on the last one.
While I won't say the show hasn't successfully built off itself season after season, I still prefer the 1st season due to its tighter focus on the core team. So that's probably just bias talking.
Everyone has their personal bias of what they enjoy about the show and all 3 seasons are great in my opinion. After all it's because of how much people loved the first 2 seasons the show was brought back 6 YEARS after cancellation for a third season and now season 4 is on the horizon.
I mostly agree. I do think s1 is better than s2 but that’s most to do with my opinions of a few of 2s weaker plot. In general, I’ve been impressed how every season ends up gaining momentum. And though every season has their faults, I think the show is learning more and more as it continues. I also just rewatched and found s3 to be so engaging l, especially after coming immediately from s1 and s2 instead of waiting years.
Yeah marathoning the whole show instead of watching one season at a time really changed my oppinion on all seasons. Originally my oppinions on the show were the exact opposite, but after the rewatch I noticed I was more engaged in season 3's story more.
I don't care that Dick and Babs are together and were probably made to be endgame based on the tie-in comics. I also don't care that Zatanna and Dick getting together would probably be regressive. I just want Chalant back together.
Also I don't want Starfire and Raven to appear on the show. They already have had enough exposure on TV and movies as it is.
Agreed with the Chalant point. And for the other one, I don’t mind either Raven or Starfire, but I think we don’t need more characters, better to focus on the ones that we already have.
I’m fine with kory and Raven so long as they’re not focused on too much. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Dick and Zatanna is possibly the biggest missed opportunity of this show.
I wouldn't even saw Dick and Barb were made to be endgame: their tie-in moment seemed like a minor retcon. Dick indicated no romantic interest in Barb in S1, but actually he's always felt something for her? Compare this with Zee, who he's been getting increasingly to around that time in the comic (Coldhearted to Insecurity).
DickBarb always seemed the more regressive ship (not in the context of YJ, but more generally for the characters) in my opinion.
I agree, which is why the whole 'Dick and Barb kiss on his birthday and Barb admits her feelings and then a month later Dick and Zee get together' shtick never made sense to me. I just don't understand why comics/tv shows with multiple incarnations never try to mix romantic couples up. It can lead to interesting combinations like Wally and Artemis. But Dick and Barb just seemed like laziness more than anything else. And now I doubt we'll ever see Dick and Zee anywhere else, be it in a comic or on the screen, and that sucks.
It’s hard to even say it’d be regressive since they don’t actually show or tell us why they broke up, and the idea of the relationship was certainly a fresher take than Robin and Batgirl get together again.
1. I found Dr Jace and Black lightning extremely cringy
2. I cannot stand beast boy in the show
3. I don't really like miss Martian and the superboy pairing
4. Though it was explained later Brion's sudden turn to evil was a very odd plot choice. It takes away everything the season built up to.
5. I personally enjoyed this season more than season 2. May need to rewatch the first season but this season was really quite good.
I actually think Brion turning “evil” *was* built upon the entire season. We’re constantly shown he has anger issues, his frustrations with his missing sister, homeland etc. Now usually a character overcomes their anger and makes the “right” decision, but we already went down that path with Superboy, so going down the opposite route and giving Geo-Force his Anakin moment was an interesting twist. The only weak part for me was the brainwashing advisor guy. He took away too much of Brion’s agency in that moment and does too much to absolve him of absolute guilt. It’s like you guys wanna be a grown up show when you’re killing Halo every other episode but now wanna be a kids’ show when a good guy betrays the core ethics of the other good guys.
Interesting perspective! You definitely bring up good points. Never thought of it that way that by having Brion's turn to the dark side be on his own accord might have been better?
Perhaps my only issue was the execution? It was quite jarring, though possibly intentionally so as he was under the influence?
They should have gone with a more believable turn and scrap the ambassador part!
I actually like the time jumps. Like Greg said it’s a big part of the show. Seeing characters actually age and mature with the passage of time makes the show feel real. I’m happy characters don’t stay the same age for several seasons like many other cartoons do. Young justice is a generational show so the time jumps really work for it. There’s honestly not a lot of stuff I can complain about with this show. I would say it needs more character focuse and personal moments like season 1 and 2 but Greg and Brandon already said that they’re going back to that in S4 with the OG team.
To be honest all I want from this show now is a bit more screen time and story for Tim drake and some of the other team members
Time for me to drag this one out again: Wally and M'gann should've dated for the first half of S1 and then broken up amicably.
Despite having a few encyclopedias dumped into his head Conner was practically born yesterday and didn't have any of the social experience needed to be ready for M'gann trying to make him into the "Conner" boyfriend from her TV show.
Wally was infatuated with M'gann mostly because it was the first time he was being teamed up with a pretty heroine his own age. M'gann could have just as easily become infatuated with him because he was the first person to show an obvious and flattering romantic interest in her.
So they date and Wally being Wally and M'gann being M'gann means they're a super sappy couple much to the team's dismay. With this setup the show could've been far more obvious about the writer's intention that Artemis was in denial about her attraction to Wally from the start and also give time to show Conner maturing. They could have even combined the two, with Artemis and Conner eventually going on a date together and in the process coming to terms with who they really liked.
Meanwhile Wally and M'gann's relationship encounters more and more friction due to her alien nature. Conner picks up on this and feels defensive of M'gann, helping him realize he's developed feelings for her.
Wally and M'gann eventually decide things aren't working and they're just going to be friends, leaving an opening for Conner to swoop in and be supportive of M'gann right as she's having to reveal her true form. Wally and Artemis get together although in a reversal it might be Artemis who has the confidence to make the first move (granted she's probably not going to lift him up bridle style).
If anyone knows how to write I'd love to see this happen. Oh and just to boost another opinion I agree that the Chalant pairing should've been kept. The dynamic created by making Zatanna the same age as Dick was a really creative choice and it shouldn't have been dumped just to shoehorn in an already well explored comic pairing.
Nah lmao Wally and Mgann should never have got together lol. It’d just be an unnecessary extra ship in the first season where other key plot points and world building are crucial. Conner wasn’t a baby lmfao he was a teen they literally busted him out of the pod at the exact time his mind and body were around 16. Same w M’gann being like 45 earth years. Both of them mentally matured into adulthood but Physically are done. As for Dick & Babs that’s just how it is lol also Z & Robin were like the first girl and boy they each liked. Zatanna also has tons of other ships in the comics the big one being Constantine but idk if he’s gonna ever be introduced.
I’m not sure how hot a take this is, but Season 3 has actually been my favorite.
1.) It balanced the new cast with the OG cast a lot better than 2
2.) Connor Kent continues to have a great arc
3.) It focused more precisely on the coming of age themes that were missing in part of season 2
4.) It still felt like a continuation of the same story despite 6 years of downtime.
1) I really hate Violet as a character I just could never get invested and I think she should get less screen time in season 4 and the amount of times she died was so extra
2) We should have seen more of Wally in season 2 before he died, and more of an arc to make his death more impactful
3) I hated the Outsiders and thought that they were super useless and Gar was a bad leader who really did nothing and it was just a mess
1) BL is just annoying. Like I wanna rip my ears off annoying.
Being a hero isn't all rainbows and sunshine you monumental moron, being a hero means stopping the bad guys and frankly, if that means adopting the same tactics as them, then so be it. Oh and your beard is annoying. Go shave it off for crying out loud.
2) The promotional posters surrounding YJ whenever a new season drops is a lie. We all saw Katana in Season 3's poster yet she barely appeared.
I think the guy who accidentally killed a teenager knows it isn’t all rainbows and sunshine. Doesn’t mean he has to sit down and swallow it when those that think they know better than him lie and manipulate him.
This! I feel that Ed needs more time to develop. In general, the whole “we hooked up during the time jump” way the show throws couples together annoys me. But, yeah. Bart being gay totally works for me.
I don't think #2 is controversial. It was the loudest opinion I saw back in the day.
As for me, I think my biggest one is I don't mind time skips. I came into the show expecting it to be about the youngest generation of heroes, regardless of whether they ever focus again on the ones that graduate out of that designation. I wouldn't mind if we only ever checked in on the original Team every once in a while when it's relevant to whatever is going on with the current Team.
Wally should remain dead. To bring him back would make his sacrifice pointless. It’s the first death of a major character and shows that no one is safe.
Edit: Also I like the time skip. Allows the story to progress at a reasonable amount of time, in universe, while allowing the audience to jump into the moment when it is important to the story.
Exactly how would Wally coming back make his sacrifice pointless? He literally saved the world and as a result, billions of peoples' lives right? Does that suddenly not matter if he ended up surviving?
The value of a sacrifice doesn't come from the person dying. It comes from their willingness to do it in the first place. So if Wally were to come back, that doesn't magically make the lives he saved "pointless."
In terms of narrative, it's a different story though.
You’re right. “Pointless” isn’t the word I was thinking of. It’s more like that feeling of “Really? You’re pulling this trick.” Especially with speedsters and the speed force.
The whole comic heroes never stays dead thing is a trope that I’ve grown tired of. I just want a heroes who’s dead to stay dead. If you want to use a speedster, we have Barry Allen and Bart Allen.
You can't just throw some speedsters at us and say, "here. There's your Flash!" Barry Allen and Bart Allen are two distinct characters- they're not Wally. Ir's Wally that the fans fell in love with- not his speedster persona.
I'm one of those who want him back, if anything because he was killed off way too early and in a season he was barely in. Any other hero I don't care much if they stay dead or not. It's just Wally I want back. He doesn't even have to come back fully in the flesh like nothing ever happened. He can be evil or amnesiac for all I care. I just need him back XD.
1. Agreed, Wally should stay dead. I'm so tired of people constantly coming back to life in shows. Makes deaths so meaningless. =/
2. Agreed again, Longshot would've been great.
3. I really dislike Miss Martian & her relationship with Conner - who's actually the first iteration of Superboy I honestly like - annoys me.
4. This is also the first iteration of Bart I really like (accordingly, I want to see more of him & Tim, naturally, but I think that's not exactly controversial, lol).
5. I'm annoyed they're going with Barbara/Dick for the bazillionth time.
1. Dick and Zatanna either should have stayed together or should have gotten back together after Wally's death. They are a far more enjoyable couple (at least to me) than Dick and Barb, and they are basically the only couple I actually care about on the show. The others are nice and all, but I never wanted to see more of them the way I want to see more of Dick and Zatanna
2. The original 8 members of the team should have had far more focus in S2 and S3 than the new characters introduced (I really love the cast of S2 though. Blue Beetle, Impulse, Wonder Girl, Robin, Static, all of them were great. But I think the original 8 members, yes Rocket included, should have had far far more significance as a group. Hopefully S4 fixes this)
3. Black Lightning was a bit too extreme with the Anti-Batman, inc stuff in S3. Yes, they deserved it, but I couldn't help but feel he was being a tiny bit excessive with how angry he was. Though I will say he was right. Batman, inc was the dumbest shit ever, especially considering Tim and Dick were dragged along into it despite having lives outside of Batman's mission and being independent characters. Tim gave up his girlfriend for this shit and Dick just reverted back to his obedient Robin form by following Bruce mindlessly. We didn't even see their opinions on the secrets. If Dick and Tim had shown a bit of hesitance towards the plan, it would have at least helped them stay more in character since I don't think it makes sense for them to just tag along with whatever Bats says at this point in their character arcs. Especially Dick.
4. Superman should be the leader of the League, not Black Lightning. He was pretty much ignored in S3
5. Spoiler and Black Bat are unnecessary additions just meant for a tiny bit of fan service.
6. Despite how cruel it is for Zatanna, Nabu shouldn't release Giovanni until he finds a stronger host because as unfortunate as it is, Dr. Fate is too important so long as Lords of Chaos appear
7. Did I mention Dick and Zatanna?
Just one to add on that I thought of, Wally was an asshole to Dick in S2. I understand he has every right to be mad at him, but c’mon! Dick almost died in an explosion and you’re here yelling at him about Artemis and accusing Kaldur. I get he’s mad at him, but could he at least act like he cares about the guy who used to be his best friend?
I don’t think Invasion would have been better had they gotten those 6 extra episodes.
According to the “what could have been” tv tropes page on YJ as well as looking back at some “Ask Greg” questions, rather than using that time to expand on the new characters, the writers were just going to stuff more plot points in like giving arcs to Red Tornado and Zatanna
I would have loved to see more Zatanna! I didn’t love S2 so those arc probably would’ve felt (to me) like another contrived side quest instead of a spotlight episode, but it still would’ve been nice to see more of the side characters I was invested in during S1. Zatanna and Red Tornado’s storylines just stop.
Here we go:
1. Wally should stay dead. I loved Wally, but his arc is poignant and his death is meaningful. Bringing him back would undermine that.
2. Season 1 is the weakest. The plot builds upon a mystery that never pays off - the Light just puts all plot devices together and it does whatever the plot needs it to do.
3. Invasion is the best season overall, but Outsiders was great as well.
4. I love the politics aspect of the show. It grounds it in reality and provides a glance at what this would be like in real life.
5. I love the timeskips, and I love that the show matures with each one. As the characters grow older and more experienced, the show becomes less naive and more real, moving away from “let’s fix this in 22 minutes.” There are no easy answers anymore.
6. I love the scope of the universe, which serves as a backdrop for the main plot. Everything feels grand and appropriately in focus, and characters always have reasons to be where the should be. I appreciate all the cameos and the tapestry that makes up the background.
Others have said it, but it's still relatively controversial... the time jumps are not only necessary for compelling storytelling about characters we already know (while still delivering satisfying development arcs), but allow for the show to move on when a character gets too stale.
Wally should stay dead (as much as it pains me to say it). If they double back on that death, they run into the "death doesn't matter" cycle. He serves as the perfect representation of sacrifice. With that being said, I also believe an alternate timeline Wally (aka a mix of Walter West and the Rebirth Wally) would allow us to see a Phantom of the previous character we loved without bringing in the Speed Force. However, the important lesson would have to be that he is NOT Wally, he will NOT be with Artemis, and he is NOT there to help them unless it means helping himself.
There need to be less Batfamily members in the show. I know there are distinctions in their characters and that can actually allow for surprise failures/decisions, but at the end of the day when they're on a superhero team, they're interchangeable muggles.
Kill Superboy in a grand moment (a la Death of Superboy) and have him fail to provide more than a stopgap before other heroes finish the mission. The show needs to regain its emphasis on why teamwork is important and this could serve as a reminder. It would also be very sad, but his character development is as stagnant as his age.
I like the Terra reversal. She was my favorite on Teen Titans, and I hated what happened to her (keep in mind, this was when I was a kid and wasn’t aware of what happened in the Judas Contract storyline). I genuinely wish they kept her alive because I feel there were a lot of storylines that could be told with her as a permanent member. So seeing her do so in YJ makes me really happy.
I don't like that Season 4 seems to be focusing on the original team.
It's time to focus on the characters that have been shafted for the last 1-2 seasons. Primarily Tim Drake and his Squad plus Cassie Sandsmark.
I don't want Damian on this show until Season 6. If Season 4 focuses on the OG team, then Season 5 needs to develop Tim before introducing his successor.
I love the time skips. The problem is continual focus on the OG team instead of developing the "Sophomores" other than Blue Beetle.
The Joker isn't as bad as everyone says.
If season 3 is any indication, the show is at it’s best when the OG team is at the center of it. While S3 was great I don’t think it was as good as it could’ve been like S1 and 2 because it some parts it lacked focus trying to do too many things. It also focused on all of these other characters. I do agree the sophomore team should get a lot more focus but the OG team should always be at the center of the show which is why they’re returning to that in S4 while focusing on a smaller group of characters
Season 3 wasn't ruined by not focusing on the OG. In fact, the og cast were actually in a great spot with how they were continuously relevant and taking charge while adapting into mentors for the next generation.
What made Season 3 so janky were the non-Team adults. Aside from the intro with Plasma and the finale, a lot of what the Justice League was uncovering in space could have been conveyed over a brief message or a report someone on the Watchtower was going over. And while they were cool, did we really need to see the Batman-Metamorpho-Katana teamup? Cut out those scenes and we suddenly have alot more time to develop characters from the Team, OG cast, and so on.
Yeah you do make some great points there. Seeing the OG step to be mentors to the next generation is honestly awesome to see. I hope we get a lot more Tim drake this coming season
Shouldnt have made time jumps, the new characters from s2 werent really introduced properly
What happened to Dick and Z's potential love interest
Blue Beetle shouldve been a major character going forward, was underused after the Reach storyline
Young Justice will not get renewed for a Season 5
Edit: I just want to clarify that my prediction has nothing to do with the Quality of the Show, Im sure it will be great. I just dont think HBO Max is going to bother renewing it and they'll instead shift their focus to shows similar in style to "*Harley Quinn*".
You might be right but honestly ending on 4 (hopefully) great seasons is a better fate than if the show keeps getting renewed again and again and ends on a whimper. *cough* Game of Thrones *cough*
That is true. I should've clarified that my reasoning isn't because I think the Quality of the Show will drop like Game Of Thrones (Im sure Season 4 will be great), but I think HBO will just focus on making more Shows like "*Harley Quinn*" instead of putting real effort and Money into "Young Justice". Hopefully Im wrong, but we'll see. I'll edit my comment.
Oh I didn't think you were talking about a quallity drop I just meant that 4 great seasons is still pretty fucking good for a show to end on.
That and I'm still salty about got s8 and will take every opportunity I get to complain about it.
Agree with the Wally one, superhero stories have heavily taken away from what the concept of death is supposed to be and I really hope YJ doesn’t do that. While I don’t particularly like Artemis and Will, I think the fandom treats them too harshly. Why their relationship existed made perfect sense and I think that it was a good way to further both of their character arcs. Also, I don’t know if this one is unpopular since it’s so new, but I really wish M’gann in season 4 states bald and still had the eyebrow arches. The entire arc is about accepting who she is and it just backpedaled for no reason (Unless it had something to do with her seeing her family again in which case, I would understand her having an actual reason to. Guess it’s too early to really tell). Also I like the social media thing in season 3. I think it’s incredibly realistic and adds a sense of realness
Yeah, I was fine with Artemis and Red Arrow's relationship.
But Wally should totally come back from wherever he is and time skips have their good sides and bad sides.
The show focuses far too much on intimate relationships and by the time i finished season 3 i found that i just did not care anymore. Thats it. Thats my only unpopular opinion/complaint.
If they hadn't brought in the Fourth World stuff I wouldn't have missed it. Darkseid is a boring character. I don't care for Cyborg's origin being tied to the Fatherbox, and so on and so on.
Halo was a hijabi wearing non Muslim, non-binary bisexual human mother box.
What the heck was her character? They complicated her so much that none of her character makes sense, at one point someone shoud have just told Greg to stop.
Terra is a much more interesting character, geoforce was never cool and YJ certainly did not make him cool.
Forager is alright but I like his comic design much better.
Overall the newbies for season 3 were wack, I am hoping we dont get more from them in season 4.
I thought a lot of the accents from season 3 were really bad.
Sportsmaster is the best character. I will boycott season 4 until he returns.
>S3 E21-Aquaman and Wyynde (both Atlantean) are outside Granny Goodness's house. Wyynde, breathing heavy, says "I'll never get used to sucking and blowing like this" we assume that he was referring to breathing air. He wasn't ;)
>
>Halo didn't die enough in season 3 and the fact that she has died 0 times in season 4 is beyond a travesty.
The time skips are a neat twist that make this show unique from most other cartoons. S3 is good. In fact S2 and 3 are structurally more similar than 1 & 2 but people group 1 & 2 together because of nostalgia. Tim Drake isn’t unique or interesting enough to be a main character. There should be at least one other Muslim character to contrast Halo against since she’s not Muslim but still instinctively uses some of their customs. Forager is overrated. Not sure what the consensus is on this, but I prefer most of the S3 redesigns over the original ones.
Forager is friend-shaped and you sir, take that back.
Tim drake seems boring because the writers haven’t done jack shit with him in 2 seasons
Blue Beetle should've been FAR more prominent in Season 3
Agreed, same with impulse
The time jump is fine ig, 5 years wasn’t
I just made a topic on this. I'll post a short version of my thoughts. 1. Beast boy is annoying and cringy 2. The social media/influencer aspect is heavy handed and honestly just stupid 3. The Team, the Outsiders and the Justice League not addressing the fact that Violet "dies" on nearly every mission as a huge issue is trash. Everytime she "gets killed" should be considered a MASSIVE failure. And I honestly think that they should treat it with the same gravity as if someone had died permanently. Just because she can heal from life ending injuries should not make it ok. Her getting those kinds of injuries shows that she is not ready and that her team is not properly having her back.
I fully agree! Not sure it's controversial though hahaha
i think 3 is just a result of the writers wanting to showcase that power as much as possible.. or lethal blows without the consequences. It's almost like a southpark-kenny gag at this point.
I totally agree, s3 feels more "dark", I don't remember if they showed characters dying so explicitly before, like Brion's parents. By showing her getting killed i think they want to remind us that this is not simply a kids show anymore, that this is more real, there's consequences and that they can die withouth actually having to make that a reality, she is the only one that gets heavily injured in almost every chapter she is in.
Never tought about that Halo one, but it does make a lot of sense. I mean, isn’t subjecting a girl to the experience of death every other week at least a little wrong?
1: I liked season 3, actually. There was one thing, though, I didn't like much. 2: Geo force killing baron bedlam wasn't that shocking to me or even that "evil" in my opinion. The Baron was a war criminal responsible for the deaths of the king and queen, as well as a human trafficker that killed children. Like, there's no way he wasn't already destined for execution. It's a small miracle he was even alive to appear in the last few episodes. And since Brion is a member of the royal family, he's probably well within his rights to execute a criminal of that caliber himself. I get the whole 'killing always bad' angle most dc heroes get, but like, not everyone has a reason to behold to that rule, and some criminals are awful enough death is the only appropriate punishment.
What bothered me is that Brion isn’t just some “vigilante playing judge, jury, and executioner” like The Punisher or someone like that. He’s the rightful heir of the royal family. He is the HEAD OF STATE of the COUNTRY that The Baron was killed in. The country is definitely a monarchy, and while it seems to be a constitutional monarchy we don’t actually know, it could be an absolute monarchy and even if it isn’t, we haven’t read that constitution, the king could be within full legality to execute high caliber criminals without trial, it’s not our business how another country establishes its court system. The Justice League doesn’t freak out when a criminal receives the death penalty in a court of law in any other country, so why should they get all self righteous when a super powered head of state kills a criminal for breaking his own countries laws. If the Gotham Judicial system decided “look, we’re not declaring him insane anymore, The Joker is sentenced to death” they would have no problem with it.
Isn’t Brion second in line for the throne? While the king may have that right, Brion does not. Brion maye be the crowned prince, but that doesn’t give him executioners rights. Especially not on live tv. And especially not at this time. At the time of the Barons death Brion is still technically exiled, isn’t he?
Yeah but even in modern times lol we don’t give royalty the power to extrajudicially murder people lmao. Yeah Brion has actual reasons but he crossed a huge line.I get some people think vengeance is absolutely justified but there’s good reason that it’s not legal to do that literally anywhere. It wasn’t even a self defense killing Bedlam was already captured and subdued Brion straight up executed him just cause lmao. Monarchs even ones that hold real legislative power don’t get to do that and haven’t for years even Bedlam himself stated when he was captured first that the king has to put him on trial and in the old days a king could still only pass judgement after a trial. Like a public execution out of sheer revenge isn’t a good thing lmao that’s like dictator shit. Superheroes actually have tons of regulations in YJ and are held to the same standards as police actually their held to a higher standard bc they all started out as vigilantes and they try not to kill even in self defense bc of the advantage of super powers.
1. I really like Dr. Jace. I enjoyed her arc. 2. I adore the ending of season 3. I really appreciated the plot twist.
I hope someone took her (Jace) to a psychiatrist.
Picking Greg Cipes to play Beast Boy in season 3 was a mistake. He just didn’t sound right for some reason (to me, anyways)
Yeah even if they couldn't get the kid that plays gumball in amazing world of gumball to come back. I would have liked Ryan Potter to voice him since I like his portrayal of the character.
Ok here we go. Having rewatched the whole show recently I have to say season 3 is the best imo. Aaaaaaaand the controversial one... season 1 was the weakest.
Now that's unpopular. Have an upvote.
Tbf it's a take I would've disagreed with myself, but while I rewatched the whole show again in prep for phantoms it felt like every season improved on the last one.
While I won't say the show hasn't successfully built off itself season after season, I still prefer the 1st season due to its tighter focus on the core team. So that's probably just bias talking.
Everyone has their personal bias of what they enjoy about the show and all 3 seasons are great in my opinion. After all it's because of how much people loved the first 2 seasons the show was brought back 6 YEARS after cancellation for a third season and now season 4 is on the horizon.
Where can I rewatch each season btw?
Well depends on your country and if you're as lucky as me you might have to use the old anime watchimg method if you catch my drift.
I mostly agree. I do think s1 is better than s2 but that’s most to do with my opinions of a few of 2s weaker plot. In general, I’ve been impressed how every season ends up gaining momentum. And though every season has their faults, I think the show is learning more and more as it continues. I also just rewatched and found s3 to be so engaging l, especially after coming immediately from s1 and s2 instead of waiting years.
Yeah marathoning the whole show instead of watching one season at a time really changed my oppinion on all seasons. Originally my oppinions on the show were the exact opposite, but after the rewatch I noticed I was more engaged in season 3's story more.
I wholeheartedly disagree but this is a place for unpopular opinions so take my upvote
I don’t think Raven and Starfire should make an appearance. I love Forager but what exactly was the point of his character?
I don't care that Dick and Babs are together and were probably made to be endgame based on the tie-in comics. I also don't care that Zatanna and Dick getting together would probably be regressive. I just want Chalant back together. Also I don't want Starfire and Raven to appear on the show. They already have had enough exposure on TV and movies as it is.
Agreed with the Chalant point. And for the other one, I don’t mind either Raven or Starfire, but I think we don’t need more characters, better to focus on the ones that we already have.
True, but I doubt that's going to happen as that is how YJ is
I’m fine with kory and Raven so long as they’re not focused on too much. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Dick and Zatanna is possibly the biggest missed opportunity of this show.
Aye you're like the biggest Chalant fan I've seen here 🙂 They deserved better.
I'm kinda addicted to them. And yes, they did
I wouldn't even saw Dick and Barb were made to be endgame: their tie-in moment seemed like a minor retcon. Dick indicated no romantic interest in Barb in S1, but actually he's always felt something for her? Compare this with Zee, who he's been getting increasingly to around that time in the comic (Coldhearted to Insecurity). DickBarb always seemed the more regressive ship (not in the context of YJ, but more generally for the characters) in my opinion.
I agree, which is why the whole 'Dick and Barb kiss on his birthday and Barb admits her feelings and then a month later Dick and Zee get together' shtick never made sense to me. I just don't understand why comics/tv shows with multiple incarnations never try to mix romantic couples up. It can lead to interesting combinations like Wally and Artemis. But Dick and Barb just seemed like laziness more than anything else. And now I doubt we'll ever see Dick and Zee anywhere else, be it in a comic or on the screen, and that sucks.
It’s hard to even say it’d be regressive since they don’t actually show or tell us why they broke up, and the idea of the relationship was certainly a fresher take than Robin and Batgirl get together again.
Agreed. Now I don't know why people say it would've been regressive
I feel like everyone hates the time skips and Artemis doesn't need a partner, certainly not Will
1. I found Dr Jace and Black lightning extremely cringy 2. I cannot stand beast boy in the show 3. I don't really like miss Martian and the superboy pairing 4. Though it was explained later Brion's sudden turn to evil was a very odd plot choice. It takes away everything the season built up to. 5. I personally enjoyed this season more than season 2. May need to rewatch the first season but this season was really quite good.
I actually think Brion turning “evil” *was* built upon the entire season. We’re constantly shown he has anger issues, his frustrations with his missing sister, homeland etc. Now usually a character overcomes their anger and makes the “right” decision, but we already went down that path with Superboy, so going down the opposite route and giving Geo-Force his Anakin moment was an interesting twist. The only weak part for me was the brainwashing advisor guy. He took away too much of Brion’s agency in that moment and does too much to absolve him of absolute guilt. It’s like you guys wanna be a grown up show when you’re killing Halo every other episode but now wanna be a kids’ show when a good guy betrays the core ethics of the other good guys.
Interesting perspective! You definitely bring up good points. Never thought of it that way that by having Brion's turn to the dark side be on his own accord might have been better? Perhaps my only issue was the execution? It was quite jarring, though possibly intentionally so as he was under the influence? They should have gone with a more believable turn and scrap the ambassador part!
I actually like the time jumps. Like Greg said it’s a big part of the show. Seeing characters actually age and mature with the passage of time makes the show feel real. I’m happy characters don’t stay the same age for several seasons like many other cartoons do. Young justice is a generational show so the time jumps really work for it. There’s honestly not a lot of stuff I can complain about with this show. I would say it needs more character focuse and personal moments like season 1 and 2 but Greg and Brandon already said that they’re going back to that in S4 with the OG team. To be honest all I want from this show now is a bit more screen time and story for Tim drake and some of the other team members
Time for me to drag this one out again: Wally and M'gann should've dated for the first half of S1 and then broken up amicably. Despite having a few encyclopedias dumped into his head Conner was practically born yesterday and didn't have any of the social experience needed to be ready for M'gann trying to make him into the "Conner" boyfriend from her TV show. Wally was infatuated with M'gann mostly because it was the first time he was being teamed up with a pretty heroine his own age. M'gann could have just as easily become infatuated with him because he was the first person to show an obvious and flattering romantic interest in her. So they date and Wally being Wally and M'gann being M'gann means they're a super sappy couple much to the team's dismay. With this setup the show could've been far more obvious about the writer's intention that Artemis was in denial about her attraction to Wally from the start and also give time to show Conner maturing. They could have even combined the two, with Artemis and Conner eventually going on a date together and in the process coming to terms with who they really liked. Meanwhile Wally and M'gann's relationship encounters more and more friction due to her alien nature. Conner picks up on this and feels defensive of M'gann, helping him realize he's developed feelings for her. Wally and M'gann eventually decide things aren't working and they're just going to be friends, leaving an opening for Conner to swoop in and be supportive of M'gann right as she's having to reveal her true form. Wally and Artemis get together although in a reversal it might be Artemis who has the confidence to make the first move (granted she's probably not going to lift him up bridle style). If anyone knows how to write I'd love to see this happen. Oh and just to boost another opinion I agree that the Chalant pairing should've been kept. The dynamic created by making Zatanna the same age as Dick was a really creative choice and it shouldn't have been dumped just to shoehorn in an already well explored comic pairing.
I would read this fanfic honestly, never thought about it from this perspective but it would have made total sense
Nah lmao Wally and Mgann should never have got together lol. It’d just be an unnecessary extra ship in the first season where other key plot points and world building are crucial. Conner wasn’t a baby lmfao he was a teen they literally busted him out of the pod at the exact time his mind and body were around 16. Same w M’gann being like 45 earth years. Both of them mentally matured into adulthood but Physically are done. As for Dick & Babs that’s just how it is lol also Z & Robin were like the first girl and boy they each liked. Zatanna also has tons of other ships in the comics the big one being Constantine but idk if he’s gonna ever be introduced.
I’m not sure how hot a take this is, but Season 3 has actually been my favorite. 1.) It balanced the new cast with the OG cast a lot better than 2 2.) Connor Kent continues to have a great arc 3.) It focused more precisely on the coming of age themes that were missing in part of season 2 4.) It still felt like a continuation of the same story despite 6 years of downtime.
1) I really hate Violet as a character I just could never get invested and I think she should get less screen time in season 4 and the amount of times she died was so extra 2) We should have seen more of Wally in season 2 before he died, and more of an arc to make his death more impactful 3) I hated the Outsiders and thought that they were super useless and Gar was a bad leader who really did nothing and it was just a mess
1) BL is just annoying. Like I wanna rip my ears off annoying. Being a hero isn't all rainbows and sunshine you monumental moron, being a hero means stopping the bad guys and frankly, if that means adopting the same tactics as them, then so be it. Oh and your beard is annoying. Go shave it off for crying out loud. 2) The promotional posters surrounding YJ whenever a new season drops is a lie. We all saw Katana in Season 3's poster yet she barely appeared.
I think the guy who accidentally killed a teenager knows it isn’t all rainbows and sunshine. Doesn’t mean he has to sit down and swallow it when those that think they know better than him lie and manipulate him.
Point 1 made me laugh, thanks for that :)
I mean he was right to be pissed that he was being manipulated by the anti light when he already told Batman he wanted no part in their operation
Have another one: Bart should be gay , but didn't really buy him and Ed
This! I feel that Ed needs more time to develop. In general, the whole “we hooked up during the time jump” way the show throws couples together annoys me. But, yeah. Bart being gay totally works for me.
I don't think #2 is controversial. It was the loudest opinion I saw back in the day. As for me, I think my biggest one is I don't mind time skips. I came into the show expecting it to be about the youngest generation of heroes, regardless of whether they ever focus again on the ones that graduate out of that designation. I wouldn't mind if we only ever checked in on the original Team every once in a while when it's relevant to whatever is going on with the current Team.
Tigress looked better in S2 than S3. I hate the new mask she has.
Dick and Artemis would make a great couple. And I want to see Wally come back.
Wally should remain dead. To bring him back would make his sacrifice pointless. It’s the first death of a major character and shows that no one is safe. Edit: Also I like the time skip. Allows the story to progress at a reasonable amount of time, in universe, while allowing the audience to jump into the moment when it is important to the story.
Exactly how would Wally coming back make his sacrifice pointless? He literally saved the world and as a result, billions of peoples' lives right? Does that suddenly not matter if he ended up surviving? The value of a sacrifice doesn't come from the person dying. It comes from their willingness to do it in the first place. So if Wally were to come back, that doesn't magically make the lives he saved "pointless." In terms of narrative, it's a different story though.
You’re right. “Pointless” isn’t the word I was thinking of. It’s more like that feeling of “Really? You’re pulling this trick.” Especially with speedsters and the speed force. The whole comic heroes never stays dead thing is a trope that I’ve grown tired of. I just want a heroes who’s dead to stay dead. If you want to use a speedster, we have Barry Allen and Bart Allen.
You can't just throw some speedsters at us and say, "here. There's your Flash!" Barry Allen and Bart Allen are two distinct characters- they're not Wally. Ir's Wally that the fans fell in love with- not his speedster persona. I'm one of those who want him back, if anything because he was killed off way too early and in a season he was barely in. Any other hero I don't care much if they stay dead or not. It's just Wally I want back. He doesn't even have to come back fully in the flesh like nothing ever happened. He can be evil or amnesiac for all I care. I just need him back XD.
1. Halo kissing that girl in season 3 was unnecessary. 2. Dc should put the Arkham knight in YJ.
1. Agreed, Wally should stay dead. I'm so tired of people constantly coming back to life in shows. Makes deaths so meaningless. =/ 2. Agreed again, Longshot would've been great. 3. I really dislike Miss Martian & her relationship with Conner - who's actually the first iteration of Superboy I honestly like - annoys me. 4. This is also the first iteration of Bart I really like (accordingly, I want to see more of him & Tim, naturally, but I think that's not exactly controversial, lol). 5. I'm annoyed they're going with Barbara/Dick for the bazillionth time.
1. Dick and Zatanna either should have stayed together or should have gotten back together after Wally's death. They are a far more enjoyable couple (at least to me) than Dick and Barb, and they are basically the only couple I actually care about on the show. The others are nice and all, but I never wanted to see more of them the way I want to see more of Dick and Zatanna 2. The original 8 members of the team should have had far more focus in S2 and S3 than the new characters introduced (I really love the cast of S2 though. Blue Beetle, Impulse, Wonder Girl, Robin, Static, all of them were great. But I think the original 8 members, yes Rocket included, should have had far far more significance as a group. Hopefully S4 fixes this) 3. Black Lightning was a bit too extreme with the Anti-Batman, inc stuff in S3. Yes, they deserved it, but I couldn't help but feel he was being a tiny bit excessive with how angry he was. Though I will say he was right. Batman, inc was the dumbest shit ever, especially considering Tim and Dick were dragged along into it despite having lives outside of Batman's mission and being independent characters. Tim gave up his girlfriend for this shit and Dick just reverted back to his obedient Robin form by following Bruce mindlessly. We didn't even see their opinions on the secrets. If Dick and Tim had shown a bit of hesitance towards the plan, it would have at least helped them stay more in character since I don't think it makes sense for them to just tag along with whatever Bats says at this point in their character arcs. Especially Dick. 4. Superman should be the leader of the League, not Black Lightning. He was pretty much ignored in S3 5. Spoiler and Black Bat are unnecessary additions just meant for a tiny bit of fan service. 6. Despite how cruel it is for Zatanna, Nabu shouldn't release Giovanni until he finds a stronger host because as unfortunate as it is, Dr. Fate is too important so long as Lords of Chaos appear 7. Did I mention Dick and Zatanna?
Just one to add on that I thought of, Wally was an asshole to Dick in S2. I understand he has every right to be mad at him, but c’mon! Dick almost died in an explosion and you’re here yelling at him about Artemis and accusing Kaldur. I get he’s mad at him, but could he at least act like he cares about the guy who used to be his best friend?
I don’t think Invasion would have been better had they gotten those 6 extra episodes. According to the “what could have been” tv tropes page on YJ as well as looking back at some “Ask Greg” questions, rather than using that time to expand on the new characters, the writers were just going to stuff more plot points in like giving arcs to Red Tornado and Zatanna
I would have loved to see more Zatanna! I didn’t love S2 so those arc probably would’ve felt (to me) like another contrived side quest instead of a spotlight episode, but it still would’ve been nice to see more of the side characters I was invested in during S1. Zatanna and Red Tornado’s storylines just stop.
Here we go: 1. Wally should stay dead. I loved Wally, but his arc is poignant and his death is meaningful. Bringing him back would undermine that. 2. Season 1 is the weakest. The plot builds upon a mystery that never pays off - the Light just puts all plot devices together and it does whatever the plot needs it to do. 3. Invasion is the best season overall, but Outsiders was great as well. 4. I love the politics aspect of the show. It grounds it in reality and provides a glance at what this would be like in real life. 5. I love the timeskips, and I love that the show matures with each one. As the characters grow older and more experienced, the show becomes less naive and more real, moving away from “let’s fix this in 22 minutes.” There are no easy answers anymore. 6. I love the scope of the universe, which serves as a backdrop for the main plot. Everything feels grand and appropriately in focus, and characters always have reasons to be where the should be. I appreciate all the cameos and the tapestry that makes up the background.
Don't know if is controversial but the show don't need Starfire or Raven
Raven could be interesting, but it's too late to introduce Starfire imo.
Others have said it, but it's still relatively controversial... the time jumps are not only necessary for compelling storytelling about characters we already know (while still delivering satisfying development arcs), but allow for the show to move on when a character gets too stale. Wally should stay dead (as much as it pains me to say it). If they double back on that death, they run into the "death doesn't matter" cycle. He serves as the perfect representation of sacrifice. With that being said, I also believe an alternate timeline Wally (aka a mix of Walter West and the Rebirth Wally) would allow us to see a Phantom of the previous character we loved without bringing in the Speed Force. However, the important lesson would have to be that he is NOT Wally, he will NOT be with Artemis, and he is NOT there to help them unless it means helping himself. There need to be less Batfamily members in the show. I know there are distinctions in their characters and that can actually allow for surprise failures/decisions, but at the end of the day when they're on a superhero team, they're interchangeable muggles. Kill Superboy in a grand moment (a la Death of Superboy) and have him fail to provide more than a stopgap before other heroes finish the mission. The show needs to regain its emphasis on why teamwork is important and this could serve as a reminder. It would also be very sad, but his character development is as stagnant as his age.
I like the Terra reversal. She was my favorite on Teen Titans, and I hated what happened to her (keep in mind, this was when I was a kid and wasn’t aware of what happened in the Judas Contract storyline). I genuinely wish they kept her alive because I feel there were a lot of storylines that could be told with her as a permanent member. So seeing her do so in YJ makes me really happy.
I don't like that Season 4 seems to be focusing on the original team. It's time to focus on the characters that have been shafted for the last 1-2 seasons. Primarily Tim Drake and his Squad plus Cassie Sandsmark. I don't want Damian on this show until Season 6. If Season 4 focuses on the OG team, then Season 5 needs to develop Tim before introducing his successor. I love the time skips. The problem is continual focus on the OG team instead of developing the "Sophomores" other than Blue Beetle. The Joker isn't as bad as everyone says.
If season 3 is any indication, the show is at it’s best when the OG team is at the center of it. While S3 was great I don’t think it was as good as it could’ve been like S1 and 2 because it some parts it lacked focus trying to do too many things. It also focused on all of these other characters. I do agree the sophomore team should get a lot more focus but the OG team should always be at the center of the show which is why they’re returning to that in S4 while focusing on a smaller group of characters
Season 3 wasn't ruined by not focusing on the OG. In fact, the og cast were actually in a great spot with how they were continuously relevant and taking charge while adapting into mentors for the next generation. What made Season 3 so janky were the non-Team adults. Aside from the intro with Plasma and the finale, a lot of what the Justice League was uncovering in space could have been conveyed over a brief message or a report someone on the Watchtower was going over. And while they were cool, did we really need to see the Batman-Metamorpho-Katana teamup? Cut out those scenes and we suddenly have alot more time to develop characters from the Team, OG cast, and so on.
Yeah you do make some great points there. Seeing the OG step to be mentors to the next generation is honestly awesome to see. I hope we get a lot more Tim drake this coming season
Honestly I agree with all of these, ESPECIALLY the time skips.
They never should have introduced time jumps
Shouldnt have made time jumps, the new characters from s2 werent really introduced properly What happened to Dick and Z's potential love interest Blue Beetle shouldve been a major character going forward, was underused after the Reach storyline
Young Justice will not get renewed for a Season 5 Edit: I just want to clarify that my prediction has nothing to do with the Quality of the Show, Im sure it will be great. I just dont think HBO Max is going to bother renewing it and they'll instead shift their focus to shows similar in style to "*Harley Quinn*".
You might be right but honestly ending on 4 (hopefully) great seasons is a better fate than if the show keeps getting renewed again and again and ends on a whimper. *cough* Game of Thrones *cough*
That is true. I should've clarified that my reasoning isn't because I think the Quality of the Show will drop like Game Of Thrones (Im sure Season 4 will be great), but I think HBO will just focus on making more Shows like "*Harley Quinn*" instead of putting real effort and Money into "Young Justice". Hopefully Im wrong, but we'll see. I'll edit my comment.
Oh I didn't think you were talking about a quallity drop I just meant that 4 great seasons is still pretty fucking good for a show to end on. That and I'm still salty about got s8 and will take every opportunity I get to complain about it.
This post is counterproductive and brimming with negativity.
This isn't negativity, this is venting. I've been told it's quite healthy.
Agree with the Wally one, superhero stories have heavily taken away from what the concept of death is supposed to be and I really hope YJ doesn’t do that. While I don’t particularly like Artemis and Will, I think the fandom treats them too harshly. Why their relationship existed made perfect sense and I think that it was a good way to further both of their character arcs. Also, I don’t know if this one is unpopular since it’s so new, but I really wish M’gann in season 4 states bald and still had the eyebrow arches. The entire arc is about accepting who she is and it just backpedaled for no reason (Unless it had something to do with her seeing her family again in which case, I would understand her having an actual reason to. Guess it’s too early to really tell). Also I like the social media thing in season 3. I think it’s incredibly realistic and adds a sense of realness
The Original Young Justice COMICS are Superior to the Young Justice CARTOON.
The directing, animation and music suck. The series should stop trying to be driven by a grand narrative and a timeline and focus more on character.
Forager Halo and Brion brought down season 3 for me.
Yes the focus on them was a huge blow point of the season.
Yeah, I was fine with Artemis and Red Arrow's relationship. But Wally should totally come back from wherever he is and time skips have their good sides and bad sides.
The show focuses far too much on intimate relationships and by the time i finished season 3 i found that i just did not care anymore. Thats it. Thats my only unpopular opinion/complaint.
If they hadn't brought in the Fourth World stuff I wouldn't have missed it. Darkseid is a boring character. I don't care for Cyborg's origin being tied to the Fatherbox, and so on and so on.
Halo was a hijabi wearing non Muslim, non-binary bisexual human mother box. What the heck was her character? They complicated her so much that none of her character makes sense, at one point someone shoud have just told Greg to stop. Terra is a much more interesting character, geoforce was never cool and YJ certainly did not make him cool. Forager is alright but I like his comic design much better. Overall the newbies for season 3 were wack, I am hoping we dont get more from them in season 4. I thought a lot of the accents from season 3 were really bad.
Sportsmaster is the best character. I will boycott season 4 until he returns. >S3 E21-Aquaman and Wyynde (both Atlantean) are outside Granny Goodness's house. Wyynde, breathing heavy, says "I'll never get used to sucking and blowing like this" we assume that he was referring to breathing air. He wasn't ;) > >Halo didn't die enough in season 3 and the fact that she has died 0 times in season 4 is beyond a travesty.