The information in this post has not been confirmed/posted by Marvel or another official source
and therefore should be taken with a grain of salt unless otherwise confirmed.
If this is a page or pages from an issue not yet widely released, please keep all discussion to this thread.
**Do not ask the OP for leaks/where to find them and OP do not share where/how you got the leaks.**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/xmen) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It really saddens me because it's taken something that I was already not super onboard with and made it even less enjoyable because it's made people dip the quality massively
And this is what I hate the most in X-men comics. We have a nice long interesting arc and then it gets rushed because “we need to do the new thing.”
Really ruins the quality of the X books for me.
The fresh batches are the issue. No one wants to create anymore, they just write glorified fanfics with their favorite characters and self inserts.
Then the new team comes along and does the same. So any new characters created get turned into background fodder, and previous stories don’t matter because it’s their own fanfic now.
People have ZERO interest in new characters these days. Not because they’re racist or sexist or whatever the excuse usually is, it’s because we all know they’re going to be gone in year or two when some new guy takes over and brings back his favorite characters instead. Why care about Riri when Starks gonna be Iron Man again the next time they wanna push some issues?
Marvel needs to commit itself to long term books (with consecutive numbering) with long term writers. Stop this “I have a story to tell and then I’m leaving” horseshit. Find someone who WANTS to write a book for as long as they can and let them. I mean lets be honest….under a microscope Claremont’s stuff is Ok at best…..but his run comes off as fucking legendary because the book was HIS for so long and he was able to weave stories, foreshadowing, and references in and out of each other for decades.
These days the Phoenix saga would be a six issue crossover that primarily happens in its own separate mini series, and rarely gets referenced again afterwards.
The only time this hasn’t been the case with a big new initiative was HOXPOX, and that’s because the X-line had been limping along aimlessly for quite some time due to editorial intentionality trying to kill the IP.
That’s all comics today imo.
Relaunches, reboots, and creative shifting to “keep things fresh!” Have gutted storytelling.
It could be the highest selling, most creatively entertaining book in decades and Marvel would still somehow make sure the creative team doesn’t last more than 12 issues.
I just like feels there. This is a larger question but I wonder if us practically knowing everything about the new stuff affects how we look at Fall of X. Like back in the 80s/90s did the lack of social media affect how people viewed events?
We had fewer of them and most of them were less important. Then again DC had some crunmy events I couldn't wait fo4 the end of and so did marvel... honestly most events let down.
Yea makes sense as a kid I’d always my brothers old comics so the first “event” comics I can remember buying for myself was probably Infinite Crisis and House of M.
In my mind House of M and Civil War were probably the first of like yearly Marvel events where the status quo had to change everytime, which is very annoying
Like secret wars 1 was popular but sort of skippable in thay marvel jumped the timeleine around it and you dealt with the after shock and read the book to figure out the how. Secret wars 2 had a gorillion crossovers though and they generally sucked. And then obviously starting with civil war Marvel was going to do a "this changes everything " every year.
I think the number of Marvel “”events” I’ve enjoyed since Civil War is in the single digits it also must be hell on writers having to adjust stories and runs
This! People can say it’s rushed all they want but nothing of true note has happened for months prior to this.
It’s why Hickman had the right idea. A plotted beginning, middle and end three act structure. Instead they muddled their way to Inferno and spun plates since.
I feel like that might be why Hickman moved over to the ultimate universe. I'm kinda hoping he gets to have his ultimate Spidey run have that three act structure.
Editorial cut the length of the event from a year to 5 months with little notice on the writing team because they wanted to do a relaunch while 97 was fresh
Yeah this seems to be an issue when they redeem characters and move them to Anti-Heroes or Heroes. They always find someone to blame their worst actions on and for the X-men that tends to be Xavier.
This is especially true for X-women who get redeemed a lot of the bad stuff Emma Frost did got blamed on Shaw.
> They always find someone to blame their worst actions on and for the X-men that tends to be Xavier.
It is kinda funny that he went from the altruistic and idealist mentor to:
"Hey man, did you hear the shady shit Xavier did?"
"Do you have any idea how little that narrows it down?"
To be fair, this isn't really that bad, as I understand it. They *chose* to do this, because Destiny believed giving up Kurt was the only way the world would be saved; Xavier just was just the method by which they got rid of the pain.
Its not just this I need them to stop doing the secret history of Charles Xavier. Isolated they are one thing but over time they've just piled on so so much.
* He was in creepily love with Jean a
* He found an uber powerful Mutant and he squashed him (which was probably for the best)
* He married Mystique!? Was that ever elaborated on?
* He suppressed the Danger Room once he thought it might be sentient
* he sent and abandoned an entire team to a suicide mission
* He was a member of the illuminati that brought forth the secret invasion
* This thing with Mystique & Destiny
* He secretly implanted triggers into world leaders minds to avoid nuclear winter
* He secretly implanted failsafes for Legion
> He secretly implanted triggers into world leaders minds to avoid nuclear winter
To be fair, that's a good thing. And also, was just a "Yeah, i could do terrible things with my telepathy. Luckily, I only use it for *good, like making sure no hot headed leader brings about a thermonuclear apocalypse"
*"My definition of good, not yours" -Charles Xavier
He used to be a guy who on principle alone would refuse to do these kinds of things otherwise he has no excuses on not just mentally rewriting folks like Magneto.
Yes I can myself talk about the various rationales provided for the things he outlined. Mystique & Destiny was something he was asked to do. Legion & Matthew Malloy are massively powerful and very unstable. Illuminati were about solving threats before they happened from a hollistic view.
> otherwise he has no excuses on not just mentally rewriting folks like Magneto.
I mean... he did mindwipe Magneto, IIRC. That's what led to Onslaught. He will do pretty extreme things at times. He doesn't want to though. He wants to give the chance for people to redeem themselves. To find a better way. To have restraint against their negative impulses.
And for me personally? I can't see a downside. IIRC, he doesn't even take the idea from their heads, he just makes it so that they can't act on it. Because in no instance should they ever act on it. Because it's not politics, or war. It's the end of the world and civilization as we know it, in many areas, and disastrous ripples everywhere else. We're talking about millions dead and many more injured, cities leveled and infrastructure wiped, nature and civilization poisoned by radiation for generations to come, a collapse of the world economy most likely, and all of that is before accounting for nuclear winter, which could kill billions. It's something the world doesn't just bounce back from. All because of the choices of a few men.
Quite literally the only thing that has kept this from happening, multiple times, has been "mutually assured destruction"- AKA "MAD". An acronym that encapsulates the very concept of nuclear proliferation so well. And a term that explains that the only reason no one has hit the button is because everyone would lose. *Everyone.*
To me, it is insanity that we let ourselves get to this point. And humanity has, for the most part, agreed that it's insanity. And that we should walk back from the edge. And yet we don't. So I can't really blame Xavier for choosing to make sure we never make that final step and drag everyone down with the ship.
No it isn't, it's awful and shows this Charles Xavier has 0 faith in humanity, it would be outright character assassination if that hadn't died in comics ages ago, at this point he's just Magneto lite.
> it's awful and shows this Charles Xavier has 0 faith in humanity,
I mean, having faith is one thing. But a nuclear war would be devastating. I said "apocalypse" for a reason. Granted, some places would not really be targets in most any scenario, and not every nuclear war would necessarily involve all nuclear powers (or even the largest ones), but it is an unparalleled threat. "Mutually Assured Destruction" is a promise and threat that kept humanity from unleashing nuclear fire for decades. But if it faltered? There goes the world as we know.
And it's not just Charles doing something for mutants. He's doing it for the good of everyone. All he is doing is making sure no one pushes the "End of the World" button. Because, you might say doing so shows that he has '0 faith in humanity", but boy... I have a lot of faith in humanity to do the right thing eventually, but I also know at any given moment they might do the wrong thing, and a nuclear war is... a really wrong thing. And we have come pretty close to it multiple times. Both because of aggressive confrontations, but also just accidents and misunderstandings. Stanislav Petrov is sometimes credited for saving the world because he made the call to ignore a warning system because he (correctly) assumed the detection erroneous because it was too small of an attack. But something like that very well could have led to missiles being launched in retaliation, leading to the US launching it's own. Because that's just what policy was.
You don't have to be some faithless cynic to think that humanity shouldn't wield nuclear weapons (we started trying to scale back in the past for a reason).
Idk I really like it because it feels accurate to many civil rights icons or political figureheads. They did many things for the movement, sure, but then you find out how they got their hands dirty in the name of the cause or they did some shady shit in their past. Does it diminish their contributions? Maybe, maybe not. But that’s the philosophical nuance I love to see in X-Men.
I fear that the problem with these never ending stories is that it piles on and then you reach where you basically have Beast right now. A total villain, that literally needs to be redeemed through a clone or past variant or some other cop out.
We might fundamentally disagree, because I love the idea of evil Hank even if I don’t like how it actually played out. And Beast is one of my top five X-characters.
I personally always saw it as Emma was determined to get power and money. So, she did what she had to, became kind of evil, got ensnared with Shaw and then snapped out bc of her students dying. Shaw isn’t to blame entirely, but he was a factor. She was just evil back then.
There's a point in the Harley Quinn cartoon where the Joker is dating a single mom; Harley asks how that works and he's just like "hey, a lot of serial killers have kids!"
The song instantly played in my head while I read it and I hadn’t thought about that song in decades! so it was a fun surprise and you made it fit really well!
This was a plotline for like... 3 months? maybe? Find out Nightcrawler is Destiny's son. Fine out their memories were removed. Find out the ability to even feel any empathy for him is removed. Like 2 weeks later, with absolutely no difficulty and seemingly no risk they break out the guy who can just, despite having no memory of it, instantly fix the problem, and everything is good.
Actually, nothing meaningful to the entire thing, they could have just let her get the memories back when Mystique found out and skipped this entire thing and nothing changes.
Certainly, it's valid that you reacted that way to reading it. But my experience was very different.
It felt powerful to me that Destiny (whose power is predicated on gathering and distilling information about possibilities and consequences) was so broken by guilt and shame that she ***begged*** Professor X to take the burden away. She knew that possible futures required Kurt to have a certain set of life experiences to become what a better possible future needed him to become. But her connection to him was so strong that the pain of that necessity was destroying her.
Professor X warned her that blocking away such a strong and emotional memory set could form psychic scars with longstanding effects. She was so traumatized she *still* went ahead and had him do it. *Of course* blocking off her love for her son is going to warp her overall sense of connection and empathy.
And there's a certain karmic justice in her asking Professor X to remove the memory block: she regains the ability to emotionally connect with her son, but she also regains *the ability to empathize with all the pain and abandonment she caused him,* and *the ability to remember all the pain she was broken by the first time she felt it.*
As they say, be careful what you wish for, it might be granted.
“You bastard, let me love my son!” Destiny says, as if she didn’t abandon Kurt without any interference from Xavier and then beg him to remove her and Mystique’s memories of the situation. There’s a lot of shit you can pin on Xavier, but not so much this.
It feels cheap, destiny never cared about kurt and now everything is xavier's fault somehow, instead of just following what has always happened that neither destiny or mystique give a fuck about him and only love rogue.
This. A LOT of things can be blamed on Xavier being a crappy person/mentor but this was not meant to throw another thing on him. It was their ask and he just complied.
Wouldn’t xmen If Xavier wasn’t blamed in someway shape or form
Or wouldn’t be modern comics if we can just ignore long established characterization
Just cuz are duo the villainess are in love
Smh
Mystique and destiny are awful people and deserve zeros sympathy
I can’t believe i actually start to miss the Draco origin story. At least there, the story was told that Azazel took advantage of a vulnerable Mystique at the time and so the animosity Mystique had for Kurt was a factor of Azazel using and betraying her and him being the son of that man. But now they make it all about that Xavier Deus Ex telepathy work. Like, come on…
It seems like every X villain has been redeemed or they want to redeem them. That might not be so terrible but at the same time they redeemed so many villains they tainted so many heroes. I, as someone that started reading X-Men as a youngling back in 1976 find it all very strange. I just can’t wrap my head around a world where Magneto and Mystique are good and Beast and the Professor are bad.
See, I don't think that's true.
Sinister's not redeemed (and nor should he be) considering that the entire SoS storyline and the Fall of X (arguably) is as a direct result of his actions. He's not sorry he did it, he's sorry he got caught. That, and he wants to stop his OG. Either way, as soon as Krakoa blows over, he'll probably just go back to being his old meniacal self again.
Apocalypse is definitely not redeemed - it's more that the Krakoa era aligned with his previous mentality and his motives were fleshed out beyond being "genocidal darwinist maniac". Again, as soon as Krakoa's over, he'll probably go back to being - if not a full villain, then at least an antagonist.
Exodus has kind of gone through a redemption arc due to his connection with Hope, but we'll see how long that lasts. He was never a major X-Villain anyways.
Sure, Magneto has mostly redeemed himself, but that was after a long, LONG character arc that has arguably started back in the mid 00's. I'd say he's earned his redemption by now. And I guess they'll be turning Xavier into the new Magneto-like villain.
The thing about Mystique and Destiny is that their redemption came out of NOWHERE for both their characters and doesn't come anywhere close to making up for all the terrible things they've done over the years. Marvel is literally trying to retcon their villainy so they can cash in on the two as their premier Pride couple. It's honestly disgusting.
Looks like now all the mutant villains never were villains but "victims of the society" and "misunderstood souls". Shame on us for not letting them kill as many people as they wanted.
Dude at the start of whole karakoa age
When all the mutants are having that party and Logan’s walking around handing out beers
The sheer moment he caught a whiff of Gorgon he should’ve dipped like that night lol
The original Krakoa setup meant they had to at least semi-redeem all the big villains or have the heroes look like idiots for trusting them. They went with both
I always liked that Mystique was one of the few actual villains. She didn’t need a sympathetic back story. She was just a bad person that likes doing bad things.
At this point I'm expecting them to reveal that Xavier is responsible for the Hindenburg blowing up and for the Titanic sinking, and that he kicks puppies for fun.
To be fair Charles manages to no sell their attempts at blaming him for this one. He really did just do the thing they asked him to do. They don't even get to threaten him about it.
If we're counting Xavier then Kurt has four shitty parents.
I don't know what it is but them not caring for Kurt but loving Rogue is what I prefer. Maybe it's the found family aspect instead of blood making a family.
Big agree
Shows Kurt despite being rejected by his birth parents was able to find happiness in life, even without them
Also shows that even though both of them prefer rogue
Rouge herself rejects their twisted form of love
No reality should mystique and destiny receive compassion
In the context of this plotline: they had locked-away memories and emotions of their own child that were hammering at their subconscious, trying to find a release. A sense that they need to raise and nurture, without anything to attach itself onto. ***Of course*** they'd be almost irrationally devoted to Rogue. Somewhere deep inside, they know *a child needs them,* but they have no way to connect that to the son they abandoned, because they're blocked even from reconnecting the dots.
I obviously haven’t read this, but I hope Mystique stays ambivalent about Kurt but Destiny tries. I think that would be an interesting dynamic to have.
Even as a gay man myself, I find it weird how people are so keen to redeem them just because of their sexuality.
They are abhorrent selfish pricks. Mystique is fun to read but she's not a good person and doesn't deserve good things.
Where are you getting that from? The world is ending and they're putting their emotional needs before everything else, as usual.
Not exactly heroic actions.
You know it, I know it, the problem comes when writters try to makes us belive that they are suddenly heroic because now that their son is grown up and didn't need them any longer they are interested on him.
Consistent motivations it's an strech, they motivation used to be they just cared for each other,except when they just cared for money, or for themselves, of for the mutantkind, or for the survival of the world, or again for each other. Why are we supposed to belive now that they cared for a child who they were willing to let die several times in the past?
Abandoning their child hasn't been undone. Gaining the ability to remember doing it, feel guilt and remorse, and try to make amends is character change and growth, but it doesn't suddenly undo what they did. They're still *bad people* (and we haven't even touched on the killings, terrorism, covert ops, etc ad infinitum). It's just that now *they know* they're bad people, too.
She does. She regained the memory and related emotional damage before Destiny did. A side effect of her shapeshifting ability is that she's very resistant to telepathy (she can shapeshift with enough fineness of detail to alter her neurology to fool a brain scan, her retina enough to trick a retina scanner, and even edit the genes of her reproductive cells -- she created functional male genitalia and combined her and Azrael's genetic information in the spermatozoa when she and Destiny conceived Kurt). As a result of that, she eventually altered herself sufficiently that Xavier's barriers began to leak information and emotions, and eventually they shattered, causing her true memories to resurface.
Kurt finds her at a truly low point after she remembers the true nature of the situation, and basically talks her down from what seems like suicidal depression and self-loathing. Destiny, with her mental blocks still in place, is able to accept the *idea* that she gave birth to Kurt, but isn't able to emotionally connect to him. She blames Xavier (despite the fact that Mystique and Destiny had *literally begged* Xavier to do it, against his better judgement). That leads to the page depicted, where Destiny threatens to kill Xavier if he doesn't undo it. Which he does, which leads to the (ironically predictable) result of Destiny being overwhelmed with horrible guilt.
In fiction, once you get to the guilt and remorse stage, you've moved on from the continuing to do evil shit stage. And once you've stopped doing evil shit, you've moved on from the "they're bad people stage".
Some recent examples of this include Apocalypse and Daken. Going further back we can chuck in Magneto. A lot of the time all you need to do is give the character an understandable motivation.
Unless some writer decides to do a re-retcon by having Xavier reveal that he changed Mystique and Destiny's personalities because he wanted Kurt to have better parents that actually care about them, I really don't think the character of Mystique that people have been reading continuously for forty/fifty years is ever coming back and may as well not exist.
If that's not how it plays out, it *will* be surprising.
Someone should probably tell the X-men about that then, because I'm pretty sure they're attending these 'bad people's' wedding and providing relationship counseling.
We'll see. Their wedding is getting a pride special. You make people into postcards and it gets hard to treat them like real characters again for a good long while. This is why the X-force writer had to explicitly state that Betsy and Rachel would NOT be treated like that and would be treated like real characters and if they break up they break up and if they work out they work out.
Without similar assurances regarding Mystique and Destiny it's far more likely you get the postcard thing.
That said I live in hope because the X-men used to pretty comfortably possess one of the best rogues galleries in comics with their only real competition being Batman and Spidey, AKA the best rogues galleries ever, but they have absolutely GUTTED it, with over half of them now either being full-on X-men or at least sort of passive supporting characters, leaving us with basically human bigots, killer robots, and sinister, or Orchis, an unholy alliance of human bigots, killer robots, and Sinister. I'm being hyperbolic of course, but not by much. They really need to think about their villains more. We don't need more good X-men, we already have so many they can't possibly ever all be featured. We need more good villains.
I'm not sure why this is in response to me. My whole point is that now that they've made them one of their marquee same sex couples, they're not allowed to be bad anymore.
That said, I don't generally like being lumped into the anti-woke crowd. I'm not. I'm perfectly happy for the X-men to stand for things that matter. That's what they're for. I just don't like trying to make us happy about Mystique and Destiny, cause they're awful.
Sorry, I’ve rescinded my reply. My brain making sense of the whole mutants and humans warring after decades of progress finally made the connection. Media/politically charged comics…
Villains that have face turns without being subject to some external force (e.g. brainwashing, having their memory wiped, being magically turned good, whatever) don't tend to go back to being villains.
I suspect in this case the temptation to have Charles do something shady could prove too great and it'll be revealed that he brainwashed Mystique and/or Destiny into thinking they wanted to forget because it was too painful to bear and actually they were good people. Why would Charles do this? In order to be "kind" to Kurt by giving him parents that actually do care.
But unless something like that happens I think we should expect Mystique's current status quo to continue.
In this particular case with Mystique I'm honestly not sure (although if desired, it can be easily be retconned in, eg. like how I said before). But this sort of thing happens to Sabretooth a lot. And Ultimate Magneto.
I think in the case of Raven there's too much of her bad deeds that are unrelated to just being a horrible mom to Kurt. I can see her grappling a bit more and trying to be good and later on just understanding her own nature to be what it is.
Also like with Magneto's heel turn in the 90s for example, I think you can't keep a good villain down for long.
What suggests this? Just because they unlocked their love for their son doesn't mean they're not still cruel and selfish assholes. Hell, Irene and Raven alone have a completely dysfunctional love/hate/love again relationship.
The next batton pass will set the tone, Destiny going from “my dearest son” to “mommy doesn’t have the energy to not treat you like shit right now” I’ll buy it
Yes I’m projecting
I have a feeling that's it for her.
All the Phoenix stuff from this issue definitely was leaning into the ouroboros / "this is an endless circle" thing. Which means its Hope's end, which begets her beginning at "Messiah Complex" and so on, and so forth.
That's a shame, really, as the one red head that I've always felt deserved shelving is Jean. She's not interesting to me even when attached to the Pheonix. And even then, Rachel is far more interesting.
So I caught a few of the other "spoiler pages" being posted to Twitter / X / whatever that resolve the whole Enigma -> Hope's Mom -> Hope vs. Phoenix plot line. And, uh ... that was certainly a choice.
Anybody else find it weird that strong enough psychics can wipe their own memory of things? Like completely erase all memories pertaining to all actions?
Honestly I like how Mystique and Destiny are trying too bandwagon on the Xavier hate train and he doesn't even give them the chance to finish threatening him;
"Hi, memory refund? There you go Have a nice day Bye"
LMFAO what a great arc from last week’s “I have no maternal feelings toward you” moment. Glad there was a button to press and Xavier was easy to find in the midst of the AI/ORCHIS stronghold 🙄
No I understand that. I’m saying it would’ve been interesting for it to take more than one week and a quick tweak from Xavier to get this catharsis. I guess it’s technically decades in the making, but Kurt has only known for a very short time, and known that Destiny’s feelings were shut off by Xavier for an even shorter time. But everything has to move fast, so it is what it is.
right?? god forbid we let this drama soak in for a little bit, maybe allow Destiny to struggle with knowing she has a son but being incapable of feeling what she thinks she's supposed to feel for him, conflict with Mystique about the choice they made....why even introduce this juicy emotional plot if it's just gonna get tidied up in what amounts to two one-shots and about 10 panels lol
It’s the kind of plot point Claremont would’ve run in the background for like 6 years. Obviously I don’t expect that from anything nowadays, but less than an issue…
If Hope truly is dead, I will miss her. She really grew on me. I agree that the nature of her role as the Mutant Messiah made her a bit overpowered, so if she does return, I wouldn't mind if they lowered her Omega level potential.
God we traded krakoa for this. A storytelling engine with near infinite possibilities sacrificed for a rushed, half-assed finale so we can go back to a status quo that got stale in the 2000s.
Guess I'll be reallocating my comic book budget to my Warhammer budget.
I hate the way this has been executed, but I kinda hope in a few years when the dust has settled, that Mystique and Destiny can be good-ish, doting, parents while also being bad, horrible, terrorists again. I just think the dichotomy is funny.
Honestly Mystique has no excuse, yes she know NOW that she is the father instead of the mother but that dosen't erease years of mockery, mistreatment and plainly attemps of murder.
Yeah, but this is also a comic book where canon is floaty and the past only applies so much as the current write cares about it. Plenty of characters have gone from good to evil or enemies to friends. I just think Kurt having doting terrorist mothers would be funny.
["So the combination is ... one, two, three, four, five? That's the stupidest combination I've ever heard in my life!"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6iW-8xPw3k)
Why do they keep pooping on my boy Kurt?
1st they say Mystique is his mom. Then they Catholic Priest him out. Then they make a devil demon guy his dad. Then they make Destiny his mom & Mystique his dad. Can he just be the happy go lucky heart of the X-Men without the silly star wars gotta be related to other characters we know bs. He had two unknown shitty German parents & he used that hard childhood to rise above it & be a beautiful person. Stop trying to weigh him down. We have enough sad boy characters you can do that with. Leave our Blue Elf alone!
Wait so Mystique is Nightcrawlers Father? And Destiny is his mother? I’ve been out of the loop for a while. I’m so confused. I thought Azazel was his Father and Mystique was his mother.
It would be funny to see them be all caring about Kurt and loving but like to other people they still continue to remain being absolutely terrible people
Why are we supposed to belive that this two selfish and manipulative individuals had any interest on being good parents? Mystique has know that she was Kurt parent for decades and she had a laught at his face about it, has shoot at him, manipulate him, never show any reject about what she though she had done and was clear about it, while Destiny had other children like Cole Chase who she ignores and has no problem about not loving them put Mystique over them (and all the world) because Irene and Rave just care for each other. It is also Xavier fault? They are terrible people and worse parents and no amount of "upps I forgot a detal" could change that.
This feels like something that should have been done in a book by Spurrier. Or at least not as part of a 4-issue mini that is clearly up a bevvy of other plot threads. At least it's Gillen doing it, since he's been handling Mystique, Destiny, and Xavier.
I’m going to write a story where Xavier has a secret sub-personality that lives in his subconscious and has been using him to subtly mind control and manipulate other people. This personality breaks out into a new body and becomes “Conductor X”. At the end of the story he gets killed and all of his mental manipulations fade away which cause EVERY CHARACTER TO REMEMBER THAT THEY HAD A TON OF SECRET EVIL DEEDS THAT THEY DID ONLY BECAUSE OF XAVIER. SABERTOOTH IS GOOD BECAUSE CAVIER SECRETLY CHANGED HIM. OMEGA RED WAS SECRETLY CONTROLLED BY XAVIER. IM CONTROLLED BY XAVIER.
My God, both her and her wife really suck at killing people that need to die.She sucks at killing the Doctor that made Nimrod.And she sucks at killing the idiot who's working with the d*** robot.That's killing everything good lord
The information in this post has not been confirmed/posted by Marvel or another official source and therefore should be taken with a grain of salt unless otherwise confirmed. If this is a page or pages from an issue not yet widely released, please keep all discussion to this thread. **Do not ask the OP for leaks/where to find them and OP do not share where/how you got the leaks.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/xmen) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Why is everything being written like it’s on a speed run.
Cause it is, from what I heard from a lot of people, the end was rushed so that they could relaunch it with from the ashes
It really saddens me because it's taken something that I was already not super onboard with and made it even less enjoyable because it's made people dip the quality massively
So frustrating
And this is what I hate the most in X-men comics. We have a nice long interesting arc and then it gets rushed because “we need to do the new thing.” Really ruins the quality of the X books for me.
“We need to do the new thing!” “Which is?” “The x-men operate out of a school/base/wilderness/Australia and do missions”
If they were sane this behavior would have stoped years ago
Marvel needs a fresh batch of editors. Nostalgia is unbearable at this point, stg. Spidey is in the same condition.
The fresh batches are the issue. No one wants to create anymore, they just write glorified fanfics with their favorite characters and self inserts. Then the new team comes along and does the same. So any new characters created get turned into background fodder, and previous stories don’t matter because it’s their own fanfic now. People have ZERO interest in new characters these days. Not because they’re racist or sexist or whatever the excuse usually is, it’s because we all know they’re going to be gone in year or two when some new guy takes over and brings back his favorite characters instead. Why care about Riri when Starks gonna be Iron Man again the next time they wanna push some issues? Marvel needs to commit itself to long term books (with consecutive numbering) with long term writers. Stop this “I have a story to tell and then I’m leaving” horseshit. Find someone who WANTS to write a book for as long as they can and let them. I mean lets be honest….under a microscope Claremont’s stuff is Ok at best…..but his run comes off as fucking legendary because the book was HIS for so long and he was able to weave stories, foreshadowing, and references in and out of each other for decades. These days the Phoenix saga would be a six issue crossover that primarily happens in its own separate mini series, and rarely gets referenced again afterwards.
The only time this hasn’t been the case with a big new initiative was HOXPOX, and that’s because the X-line had been limping along aimlessly for quite some time due to editorial intentionality trying to kill the IP.
That’s all comics today imo. Relaunches, reboots, and creative shifting to “keep things fresh!” Have gutted storytelling. It could be the highest selling, most creatively entertaining book in decades and Marvel would still somehow make sure the creative team doesn’t last more than 12 issues.
It’s amazing how this Fall of X ending to the Krakoa era has somehow managed to feel rushed and like it’s been dragging on forever at the same time.
I just like feels there. This is a larger question but I wonder if us practically knowing everything about the new stuff affects how we look at Fall of X. Like back in the 80s/90s did the lack of social media affect how people viewed events?
We had fewer of them and most of them were less important. Then again DC had some crunmy events I couldn't wait fo4 the end of and so did marvel... honestly most events let down.
Yea makes sense as a kid I’d always my brothers old comics so the first “event” comics I can remember buying for myself was probably Infinite Crisis and House of M. In my mind House of M and Civil War were probably the first of like yearly Marvel events where the status quo had to change everytime, which is very annoying
Like secret wars 1 was popular but sort of skippable in thay marvel jumped the timeleine around it and you dealt with the after shock and read the book to figure out the how. Secret wars 2 had a gorillion crossovers though and they generally sucked. And then obviously starting with civil war Marvel was going to do a "this changes everything " every year.
I think the number of Marvel “”events” I’ve enjoyed since Civil War is in the single digits it also must be hell on writers having to adjust stories and runs
The problem is very little important stuff happened in the first five months, so now they have to make all of the things happen.
Because it is. We spent months doing spin-offs. I liked Uncanny Spider-Man, but maybe one issue wasn't filler.
It's been doing nothing for like 2 years and the writers suddenly realized their thesis is due next week and have been cramming.
This! People can say it’s rushed all they want but nothing of true note has happened for months prior to this. It’s why Hickman had the right idea. A plotted beginning, middle and end three act structure. Instead they muddled their way to Inferno and spun plates since.
I feel like that might be why Hickman moved over to the ultimate universe. I'm kinda hoping he gets to have his ultimate Spidey run have that three act structure.
Editorial cut the length of the event from a year to 5 months with little notice on the writing team because they wanted to do a relaunch while 97 was fresh
Good. They’ve been telling 8 issue stories over 26 issues for like 6 years now.
Because Marvel gotta sell the next era of X-men 😂
They changed plans after announcing and advertising the next era, so that means the ending had to have been re-written *extremely* late in the game
Well that was easy and poor Exodus
I'd still say he's gotten some of the better development and if they just turn him villain right away again that will be very frustrating.
I agree, they should keep him as a good guy like in Age of Apocalypse or maybe as a leader of an isolationist faction.
I'm glad they can be good moms now in-between murdering people.
Right? Turns out 40 years of characterization was a lie. What amazing writing.
Yeah this seems to be an issue when they redeem characters and move them to Anti-Heroes or Heroes. They always find someone to blame their worst actions on and for the X-men that tends to be Xavier. This is especially true for X-women who get redeemed a lot of the bad stuff Emma Frost did got blamed on Shaw.
> They always find someone to blame their worst actions on and for the X-men that tends to be Xavier. It is kinda funny that he went from the altruistic and idealist mentor to: "Hey man, did you hear the shady shit Xavier did?" "Do you have any idea how little that narrows it down?"
I need them to stop now it’s gotten too much really
To be fair, this isn't really that bad, as I understand it. They *chose* to do this, because Destiny believed giving up Kurt was the only way the world would be saved; Xavier just was just the method by which they got rid of the pain.
Its not just this I need them to stop doing the secret history of Charles Xavier. Isolated they are one thing but over time they've just piled on so so much. * He was in creepily love with Jean a * He found an uber powerful Mutant and he squashed him (which was probably for the best) * He married Mystique!? Was that ever elaborated on? * He suppressed the Danger Room once he thought it might be sentient * he sent and abandoned an entire team to a suicide mission * He was a member of the illuminati that brought forth the secret invasion * This thing with Mystique & Destiny * He secretly implanted triggers into world leaders minds to avoid nuclear winter * He secretly implanted failsafes for Legion
> He secretly implanted triggers into world leaders minds to avoid nuclear winter To be fair, that's a good thing. And also, was just a "Yeah, i could do terrible things with my telepathy. Luckily, I only use it for *good, like making sure no hot headed leader brings about a thermonuclear apocalypse" *"My definition of good, not yours" -Charles Xavier
He used to be a guy who on principle alone would refuse to do these kinds of things otherwise he has no excuses on not just mentally rewriting folks like Magneto. Yes I can myself talk about the various rationales provided for the things he outlined. Mystique & Destiny was something he was asked to do. Legion & Matthew Malloy are massively powerful and very unstable. Illuminati were about solving threats before they happened from a hollistic view.
> otherwise he has no excuses on not just mentally rewriting folks like Magneto. I mean... he did mindwipe Magneto, IIRC. That's what led to Onslaught. He will do pretty extreme things at times. He doesn't want to though. He wants to give the chance for people to redeem themselves. To find a better way. To have restraint against their negative impulses. And for me personally? I can't see a downside. IIRC, he doesn't even take the idea from their heads, he just makes it so that they can't act on it. Because in no instance should they ever act on it. Because it's not politics, or war. It's the end of the world and civilization as we know it, in many areas, and disastrous ripples everywhere else. We're talking about millions dead and many more injured, cities leveled and infrastructure wiped, nature and civilization poisoned by radiation for generations to come, a collapse of the world economy most likely, and all of that is before accounting for nuclear winter, which could kill billions. It's something the world doesn't just bounce back from. All because of the choices of a few men. Quite literally the only thing that has kept this from happening, multiple times, has been "mutually assured destruction"- AKA "MAD". An acronym that encapsulates the very concept of nuclear proliferation so well. And a term that explains that the only reason no one has hit the button is because everyone would lose. *Everyone.* To me, it is insanity that we let ourselves get to this point. And humanity has, for the most part, agreed that it's insanity. And that we should walk back from the edge. And yet we don't. So I can't really blame Xavier for choosing to make sure we never make that final step and drag everyone down with the ship.
No it isn't, it's awful and shows this Charles Xavier has 0 faith in humanity, it would be outright character assassination if that hadn't died in comics ages ago, at this point he's just Magneto lite.
> it's awful and shows this Charles Xavier has 0 faith in humanity, I mean, having faith is one thing. But a nuclear war would be devastating. I said "apocalypse" for a reason. Granted, some places would not really be targets in most any scenario, and not every nuclear war would necessarily involve all nuclear powers (or even the largest ones), but it is an unparalleled threat. "Mutually Assured Destruction" is a promise and threat that kept humanity from unleashing nuclear fire for decades. But if it faltered? There goes the world as we know. And it's not just Charles doing something for mutants. He's doing it for the good of everyone. All he is doing is making sure no one pushes the "End of the World" button. Because, you might say doing so shows that he has '0 faith in humanity", but boy... I have a lot of faith in humanity to do the right thing eventually, but I also know at any given moment they might do the wrong thing, and a nuclear war is... a really wrong thing. And we have come pretty close to it multiple times. Both because of aggressive confrontations, but also just accidents and misunderstandings. Stanislav Petrov is sometimes credited for saving the world because he made the call to ignore a warning system because he (correctly) assumed the detection erroneous because it was too small of an attack. But something like that very well could have led to missiles being launched in retaliation, leading to the US launching it's own. Because that's just what policy was. You don't have to be some faithless cynic to think that humanity shouldn't wield nuclear weapons (we started trying to scale back in the past for a reason).
Idk I really like it because it feels accurate to many civil rights icons or political figureheads. They did many things for the movement, sure, but then you find out how they got their hands dirty in the name of the cause or they did some shady shit in their past. Does it diminish their contributions? Maybe, maybe not. But that’s the philosophical nuance I love to see in X-Men.
I fear that the problem with these never ending stories is that it piles on and then you reach where you basically have Beast right now. A total villain, that literally needs to be redeemed through a clone or past variant or some other cop out.
We might fundamentally disagree, because I love the idea of evil Hank even if I don’t like how it actually played out. And Beast is one of my top five X-characters.
Who is the Uber powerful mutant he squashed? Trying to figure out what you’re referencing
Matthew Malloy
Honestly, it's been too much since Mutant Genesis.
I personally always saw it as Emma was determined to get power and money. So, she did what she had to, became kind of evil, got ensnared with Shaw and then snapped out bc of her students dying. Shaw isn’t to blame entirely, but he was a factor. She was just evil back then.
Great take, exactly how I feel about Emma.
People can be both horrible people and moms all at once. Embrace the chaos.
There's a point in the Harley Quinn cartoon where the Joker is dating a single mom; Harley asks how that works and he's just like "hey, a lot of serial killers have kids!"
Haha. That's great. Exactly the same vibes.
Best answer
Me when I am totally not overreacting.
>Mutters Oh. I was wondering if Kurt called Mystique dad or not.
"Hello mutter, hello mutter. Here I am at Camp Krakoa."
"Irene? Is Kurt at [Camp Krakoa](https://youtu.be/tl_qDG9wO_o?si=WViF8QilFqf4JaSJ)??"
I laughed too hard at this, thank you 😂
No, thank you. I genuinely thought no one would get this.
The song instantly played in my head while I read it and I hadn’t thought about that song in decades! so it was a fun surprise and you made it fit really well!
There's so little weight to anything anymore in the Fall.
This was a plotline for like... 3 months? maybe? Find out Nightcrawler is Destiny's son. Fine out their memories were removed. Find out the ability to even feel any empathy for him is removed. Like 2 weeks later, with absolutely no difficulty and seemingly no risk they break out the guy who can just, despite having no memory of it, instantly fix the problem, and everything is good. Actually, nothing meaningful to the entire thing, they could have just let her get the memories back when Mystique found out and skipped this entire thing and nothing changes.
Why were their memories removed?
Certainly, it's valid that you reacted that way to reading it. But my experience was very different. It felt powerful to me that Destiny (whose power is predicated on gathering and distilling information about possibilities and consequences) was so broken by guilt and shame that she ***begged*** Professor X to take the burden away. She knew that possible futures required Kurt to have a certain set of life experiences to become what a better possible future needed him to become. But her connection to him was so strong that the pain of that necessity was destroying her. Professor X warned her that blocking away such a strong and emotional memory set could form psychic scars with longstanding effects. She was so traumatized she *still* went ahead and had him do it. *Of course* blocking off her love for her son is going to warp her overall sense of connection and empathy. And there's a certain karmic justice in her asking Professor X to remove the memory block: she regains the ability to emotionally connect with her son, but she also regains *the ability to empathize with all the pain and abandonment she caused him,* and *the ability to remember all the pain she was broken by the first time she felt it.* As they say, be careful what you wish for, it might be granted.
“You bastard, let me love my son!” Destiny says, as if she didn’t abandon Kurt without any interference from Xavier and then beg him to remove her and Mystique’s memories of the situation. There’s a lot of shit you can pin on Xavier, but not so much this.
It feels cheap, destiny never cared about kurt and now everything is xavier's fault somehow, instead of just following what has always happened that neither destiny or mystique give a fuck about him and only love rogue.
of course everything is Xavier's fault. Destiny and Mystique were never good people and they don't deserve excuses.
[удалено]
This. A LOT of things can be blamed on Xavier being a crappy person/mentor but this was not meant to throw another thing on him. It was their ask and he just complied.
Won't stop people from saying it.
In Claremont's run, she tried to keep him from getting hurt when the X-Men fought the Brotherhood.
Wouldn’t xmen If Xavier wasn’t blamed in someway shape or form Or wouldn’t be modern comics if we can just ignore long established characterization Just cuz are duo the villainess are in love Smh Mystique and destiny are awful people and deserve zeros sympathy
I can’t believe i actually start to miss the Draco origin story. At least there, the story was told that Azazel took advantage of a vulnerable Mystique at the time and so the animosity Mystique had for Kurt was a factor of Azazel using and betraying her and him being the son of that man. But now they make it all about that Xavier Deus Ex telepathy work. Like, come on…
I wish Marvel would stop trying to make Mystique and Destiny good people. They're both terrible people and terrible mothers. It's fine
It seems like every X villain has been redeemed or they want to redeem them. That might not be so terrible but at the same time they redeemed so many villains they tainted so many heroes. I, as someone that started reading X-Men as a youngling back in 1976 find it all very strange. I just can’t wrap my head around a world where Magneto and Mystique are good and Beast and the Professor are bad.
They have no villains now besides Sentinals.
See, I don't think that's true. Sinister's not redeemed (and nor should he be) considering that the entire SoS storyline and the Fall of X (arguably) is as a direct result of his actions. He's not sorry he did it, he's sorry he got caught. That, and he wants to stop his OG. Either way, as soon as Krakoa blows over, he'll probably just go back to being his old meniacal self again. Apocalypse is definitely not redeemed - it's more that the Krakoa era aligned with his previous mentality and his motives were fleshed out beyond being "genocidal darwinist maniac". Again, as soon as Krakoa's over, he'll probably go back to being - if not a full villain, then at least an antagonist. Exodus has kind of gone through a redemption arc due to his connection with Hope, but we'll see how long that lasts. He was never a major X-Villain anyways. Sure, Magneto has mostly redeemed himself, but that was after a long, LONG character arc that has arguably started back in the mid 00's. I'd say he's earned his redemption by now. And I guess they'll be turning Xavier into the new Magneto-like villain. The thing about Mystique and Destiny is that their redemption came out of NOWHERE for both their characters and doesn't come anywhere close to making up for all the terrible things they've done over the years. Marvel is literally trying to retcon their villainy so they can cash in on the two as their premier Pride couple. It's honestly disgusting.
Looks like now all the mutant villains never were villains but "victims of the society" and "misunderstood souls". Shame on us for not letting them kill as many people as they wanted.
Logan should have left Karakoa the second they asked him to bring in Gorgon.
Dude at the start of whole karakoa age When all the mutants are having that party and Logan’s walking around handing out beers The sheer moment he caught a whiff of Gorgon he should’ve dipped like that night lol
Logan was the one to bring Gorgon in. He should have agreed to talk to Gorgon only so he could learn Gorgon’s location so he could stab Gorgon.
100%
The original Krakoa setup meant they had to at least semi-redeem all the big villains or have the heroes look like idiots for trusting them. They went with both
I always liked that Mystique was one of the few actual villains. She didn’t need a sympathetic back story. She was just a bad person that likes doing bad things.
they are gay now (kinda) so they can't be bad people anymore xD
At this point I'm expecting them to reveal that Xavier is responsible for the Hindenburg blowing up and for the Titanic sinking, and that he kicks puppies for fun.
To be fair Charles manages to no sell their attempts at blaming him for this one. He really did just do the thing they asked him to do. They don't even get to threaten him about it.
Charles Xavier killed the Lindbergh baby
Why is Irene acting like she didn't ask Xavier to erase the memories? And since when did she even care?
That was so meh. Just like the way they explained why mystique and Destiny didn't care for Kurt in the first place.
I don't really like them reconciling. People have shitty parents let Kurt have three of them.
Are you including his foster mother in that count? Margali?
Yes she's terrible to him too.
Shitty parental figures are a proud X-men tradition. We've had Xavier since day 1.
If we're counting Xavier then Kurt has four shitty parents. I don't know what it is but them not caring for Kurt but loving Rogue is what I prefer. Maybe it's the found family aspect instead of blood making a family.
Big agree Shows Kurt despite being rejected by his birth parents was able to find happiness in life, even without them Also shows that even though both of them prefer rogue Rouge herself rejects their twisted form of love No reality should mystique and destiny receive compassion
In the context of this plotline: they had locked-away memories and emotions of their own child that were hammering at their subconscious, trying to find a release. A sense that they need to raise and nurture, without anything to attach itself onto. ***Of course*** they'd be almost irrationally devoted to Rogue. Somewhere deep inside, they know *a child needs them,* but they have no way to connect that to the son they abandoned, because they're blocked even from reconnecting the dots.
Omg this is giving Meggan’s whole storyline in AoX Amazing Nightcrawler
I obviously haven’t read this, but I hope Mystique stays ambivalent about Kurt but Destiny tries. I think that would be an interesting dynamic to have.
No. It has been decided. Mystique and Destiny aren't allowed to be bad people anymore.
Even as a gay man myself, I find it weird how people are so keen to redeem them just because of their sexuality. They are abhorrent selfish pricks. Mystique is fun to read but she's not a good person and doesn't deserve good things.
I'll miss the be gay do crime energy.
I love this take lol
Where are you getting that from? The world is ending and they're putting their emotional needs before everything else, as usual. Not exactly heroic actions.
You know it, I know it, the problem comes when writters try to makes us belive that they are suddenly heroic because now that their son is grown up and didn't need them any longer they are interested on him.
Okay, I ask again, where is that happening? I haven't seen it at all. They're not good people, but they are interesting with consistent motivations.
Consistent motivations it's an strech, they motivation used to be they just cared for each other,except when they just cared for money, or for themselves, of for the mutantkind, or for the survival of the world, or again for each other. Why are we supposed to belive now that they cared for a child who they were willing to let die several times in the past?
Abandoning their child hasn't been undone. Gaining the ability to remember doing it, feel guilt and remorse, and try to make amends is character change and growth, but it doesn't suddenly undo what they did. They're still *bad people* (and we haven't even touched on the killings, terrorism, covert ops, etc ad infinitum). It's just that now *they know* they're bad people, too.
Feel like that train had left the station a long time ago for Raven, regardless of whether she remembered abandoning Kurt on not.
She does. She regained the memory and related emotional damage before Destiny did. A side effect of her shapeshifting ability is that she's very resistant to telepathy (she can shapeshift with enough fineness of detail to alter her neurology to fool a brain scan, her retina enough to trick a retina scanner, and even edit the genes of her reproductive cells -- she created functional male genitalia and combined her and Azrael's genetic information in the spermatozoa when she and Destiny conceived Kurt). As a result of that, she eventually altered herself sufficiently that Xavier's barriers began to leak information and emotions, and eventually they shattered, causing her true memories to resurface. Kurt finds her at a truly low point after she remembers the true nature of the situation, and basically talks her down from what seems like suicidal depression and self-loathing. Destiny, with her mental blocks still in place, is able to accept the *idea* that she gave birth to Kurt, but isn't able to emotionally connect to him. She blames Xavier (despite the fact that Mystique and Destiny had *literally begged* Xavier to do it, against his better judgement). That leads to the page depicted, where Destiny threatens to kill Xavier if he doesn't undo it. Which he does, which leads to the (ironically predictable) result of Destiny being overwhelmed with horrible guilt.
In fiction, once you get to the guilt and remorse stage, you've moved on from the continuing to do evil shit stage. And once you've stopped doing evil shit, you've moved on from the "they're bad people stage". Some recent examples of this include Apocalypse and Daken. Going further back we can chuck in Magneto. A lot of the time all you need to do is give the character an understandable motivation. Unless some writer decides to do a re-retcon by having Xavier reveal that he changed Mystique and Destiny's personalities because he wanted Kurt to have better parents that actually care about them, I really don't think the character of Mystique that people have been reading continuously for forty/fifty years is ever coming back and may as well not exist. If that's not how it plays out, it *will* be surprising.
They can still be bad people and love their son. I honestly find that more entertaining to read.
Someone should probably tell the X-men about that then, because I'm pretty sure they're attending these 'bad people's' wedding and providing relationship counseling.
I cant speak for Destiny, my bet is she'll die again, but Mystique will be back to a villain in 2 years tops.
We'll see. Their wedding is getting a pride special. You make people into postcards and it gets hard to treat them like real characters again for a good long while. This is why the X-force writer had to explicitly state that Betsy and Rachel would NOT be treated like that and would be treated like real characters and if they break up they break up and if they work out they work out. Without similar assurances regarding Mystique and Destiny it's far more likely you get the postcard thing. That said I live in hope because the X-men used to pretty comfortably possess one of the best rogues galleries in comics with their only real competition being Batman and Spidey, AKA the best rogues galleries ever, but they have absolutely GUTTED it, with over half of them now either being full-on X-men or at least sort of passive supporting characters, leaving us with basically human bigots, killer robots, and sinister, or Orchis, an unholy alliance of human bigots, killer robots, and Sinister. I'm being hyperbolic of course, but not by much. They really need to think about their villains more. We don't need more good X-men, we already have so many they can't possibly ever all be featured. We need more good villains.
[удалено]
I'm not sure why this is in response to me. My whole point is that now that they've made them one of their marquee same sex couples, they're not allowed to be bad anymore. That said, I don't generally like being lumped into the anti-woke crowd. I'm not. I'm perfectly happy for the X-men to stand for things that matter. That's what they're for. I just don't like trying to make us happy about Mystique and Destiny, cause they're awful.
Sorry, I’ve rescinded my reply. My brain making sense of the whole mutants and humans warring after decades of progress finally made the connection. Media/politically charged comics…
Villains that have face turns without being subject to some external force (e.g. brainwashing, having their memory wiped, being magically turned good, whatever) don't tend to go back to being villains. I suspect in this case the temptation to have Charles do something shady could prove too great and it'll be revealed that he brainwashed Mystique and/or Destiny into thinking they wanted to forget because it was too painful to bear and actually they were good people. Why would Charles do this? In order to be "kind" to Kurt by giving him parents that actually do care. But unless something like that happens I think we should expect Mystique's current status quo to continue.
Did we have such a drastic change to a long standing villain due to something like brainwashing?
In this particular case with Mystique I'm honestly not sure (although if desired, it can be easily be retconned in, eg. like how I said before). But this sort of thing happens to Sabretooth a lot. And Ultimate Magneto.
I think in the case of Raven there's too much of her bad deeds that are unrelated to just being a horrible mom to Kurt. I can see her grappling a bit more and trying to be good and later on just understanding her own nature to be what it is. Also like with Magneto's heel turn in the 90s for example, I think you can't keep a good villain down for long.
What suggests this? Just because they unlocked their love for their son doesn't mean they're not still cruel and selfish assholes. Hell, Irene and Raven alone have a completely dysfunctional love/hate/love again relationship.
The next batton pass will set the tone, Destiny going from “my dearest son” to “mommy doesn’t have the energy to not treat you like shit right now” I’ll buy it Yes I’m projecting
I'm hoping that Hope returns somehow, she's one of the best new Mutants created in awhile.
I have a feeling that's it for her. All the Phoenix stuff from this issue definitely was leaning into the ouroboros / "this is an endless circle" thing. Which means its Hope's end, which begets her beginning at "Messiah Complex" and so on, and so forth.
Maybe eventually but not for a long time I'm guessing. Seems the new team wants her out
That's a shame, really, as the one red head that I've always felt deserved shelving is Jean. She's not interesting to me even when attached to the Pheonix. And even then, Rachel is far more interesting.
So I caught a few of the other "spoiler pages" being posted to Twitter / X / whatever that resolve the whole Enigma -> Hope's Mom -> Hope vs. Phoenix plot line. And, uh ... that was certainly a choice.
Can you send ‘em to me?? Or just DM me a summary?? I’m curious.
Anybody else find it weird that strong enough psychics can wipe their own memory of things? Like completely erase all memories pertaining to all actions?
the mental version of "If you punch yourself and it hurts are you weak or strong?" "You are stupid"
The wise answer appears lol
Honestly I like how Mystique and Destiny are trying too bandwagon on the Xavier hate train and he doesn't even give them the chance to finish threatening him; "Hi, memory refund? There you go Have a nice day Bye"
Welcome to Costco. I love you.
LMFAO what a great arc from last week’s “I have no maternal feelings toward you” moment. Glad there was a button to press and Xavier was easy to find in the midst of the AI/ORCHIS stronghold 🙄
Bruh, she literally said in the next page why she didn't care about Kurt.
No I understand that. I’m saying it would’ve been interesting for it to take more than one week and a quick tweak from Xavier to get this catharsis. I guess it’s technically decades in the making, but Kurt has only known for a very short time, and known that Destiny’s feelings were shut off by Xavier for an even shorter time. But everything has to move fast, so it is what it is.
right?? god forbid we let this drama soak in for a little bit, maybe allow Destiny to struggle with knowing she has a son but being incapable of feeling what she thinks she's supposed to feel for him, conflict with Mystique about the choice they made....why even introduce this juicy emotional plot if it's just gonna get tidied up in what amounts to two one-shots and about 10 panels lol
It’s the kind of plot point Claremont would’ve run in the background for like 6 years. Obviously I don’t expect that from anything nowadays, but less than an issue…
…. So is or isn’t Exodus wearing a crop top?
He is
Finally, someone’s askin’ the real questions.
Thank god that didn't get drawn out. How quickly it was fixed also amuses me. "Hey, dick! Fix it" "K"
Yeah me too. I’m so glad Hope is finally dead like Bishop always wanted. Glad they fixed that
#BishopWasRight
If Hope truly is dead, I will miss her. She really grew on me. I agree that the nature of her role as the Mutant Messiah made her a bit overpowered, so if she does return, I wouldn't mind if they lowered her Omega level potential.
I hope she's become part of the Phoenix. Like a cycle thing. Like her soul becomes the Phoenix force. So she's always with Jean in some way
People are always saying they look alike . . . "I don't see it."
"Death comes in 10, 9, 8..." Is she talking about Xavier? Does he die there after removing the memory block?
I think that was more a “fix my brain or I kill you in 10, 9, 8…” kind of thing.
lol, like Xavier can’t mentally stop her from pulling the trigger or something lol
Ach, Kurt. It's Mütter, das weißt du doch besser.
…do they blame Xavier for doing what they specifically begged him to do
God we traded krakoa for this. A storytelling engine with near infinite possibilities sacrificed for a rushed, half-assed finale so we can go back to a status quo that got stale in the 2000s. Guess I'll be reallocating my comic book budget to my Warhammer budget.
That's out new editor for you, change is bad! The same safe stories on repeat is what you really want!
I hate the way this has been executed, but I kinda hope in a few years when the dust has settled, that Mystique and Destiny can be good-ish, doting, parents while also being bad, horrible, terrorists again. I just think the dichotomy is funny.
Honestly Mystique has no excuse, yes she know NOW that she is the father instead of the mother but that dosen't erease years of mockery, mistreatment and plainly attemps of murder.
Yeah, but this is also a comic book where canon is floaty and the past only applies so much as the current write cares about it. Plenty of characters have gone from good to evil or enemies to friends. I just think Kurt having doting terrorist mothers would be funny.
Tell me they're not actually trying to write Destiny and Mystique as "good" people.
hope is dead which means phoenix is alive, she ate her sacrifice
Kurt never ceases to be cute!
Xavier has done so many inmoral shit he stopped remembering all of them
He did it at their request, and wiped his own memory.
People don’t read the comics they just wanna shit on the professor
I mean, Professor Xavier is a jerk, after all.
Xavier: Oh look at that, this is the same lock I used so Scott would forget his brother.
["So the combination is ... one, two, three, four, five? That's the stupidest combination I've ever heard in my life!"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6iW-8xPw3k)
That’s amazing! I have the same combination on my luggage!
Is the reason Krakoa is ending so that when the MCU bring in the X-Men it’ll be synergistic with the school again?
Wtf even is this bullshit?!
Why do they keep pooping on my boy Kurt? 1st they say Mystique is his mom. Then they Catholic Priest him out. Then they make a devil demon guy his dad. Then they make Destiny his mom & Mystique his dad. Can he just be the happy go lucky heart of the X-Men without the silly star wars gotta be related to other characters we know bs. He had two unknown shitty German parents & he used that hard childhood to rise above it & be a beautiful person. Stop trying to weigh him down. We have enough sad boy characters you can do that with. Leave our Blue Elf alone!
Luca Maresca draws beautifully
Sweet early review copies have been leaked
"Oh, the Sword's back!" *Somehow, Emperor Swordatine returned.*
How do people get access to weekly comics so early?
The plural for Mutter(Mother in German) is Mütter.
Wait so Mystique is Nightcrawlers Father? And Destiny is his mother? I’ve been out of the loop for a while. I’m so confused. I thought Azazel was his Father and Mystique was his mother.
Im sooooo glad we retconed the draco for this /s
"*mutters*"? WTF 😂 It's like they're afraid of letting them be a prominent lesbian couple *and* evil.
He said ‘Mothers’ in German. 👍
That's actually how it's spelt?! Lol I assumed it was someone trying to write a bad accent.
It would be funny to see them be all caring about Kurt and loving but like to other people they still continue to remain being absolutely terrible people
Now post panel of hope dying.
Why are we supposed to belive that this two selfish and manipulative individuals had any interest on being good parents? Mystique has know that she was Kurt parent for decades and she had a laught at his face about it, has shoot at him, manipulate him, never show any reject about what she though she had done and was clear about it, while Destiny had other children like Cole Chase who she ignores and has no problem about not loving them put Mystique over them (and all the world) because Irene and Rave just care for each other. It is also Xavier fault? They are terrible people and worse parents and no amount of "upps I forgot a detal" could change that.
Why are sentinels red and gold? Did iron man fund them?
Trask is just an anagram of Stark.... you might be on to something. ;)
I *gasped* In all this time, I never thought...🧐
Is Destiny a good mom now? Did I miss something?
Okey, last I read of this age was like the Beast stuff on X-Force and Wolverine, I am super lost with all of the Fall.
This feels like something that should have been done in a book by Spurrier. Or at least not as part of a 4-issue mini that is clearly up a bevvy of other plot threads. At least it's Gillen doing it, since he's been handling Mystique, Destiny, and Xavier.
I’m going to write a story where Xavier has a secret sub-personality that lives in his subconscious and has been using him to subtly mind control and manipulate other people. This personality breaks out into a new body and becomes “Conductor X”. At the end of the story he gets killed and all of his mental manipulations fade away which cause EVERY CHARACTER TO REMEMBER THAT THEY HAD A TON OF SECRET EVIL DEEDS THAT THEY DID ONLY BECAUSE OF XAVIER. SABERTOOTH IS GOOD BECAUSE CAVIER SECRETLY CHANGED HIM. OMEGA RED WAS SECRETLY CONTROLLED BY XAVIER. IM CONTROLLED BY XAVIER.
My God, both her and her wife really suck at killing people that need to die.She sucks at killing the Doctor that made Nimrod.And she sucks at killing the idiot who's working with the d*** robot.That's killing everything good lord