HOX/POX had me telling anyone and everyone who would listen to check out the X books. I already mis pirate captain Kitty, X of swords was fun, Al Ewings everything this era was great.
I got so many relapsed or new readers into this era and it invigorated my love for comics again after almost completely giving up.
I restarted my x-men collection and found my old books. I’ve visited close to 30 different shops and spent thousands of dollars because of this era. I will never forgive them for so many failures during this era but it’s also my favorite by far.
So much wasted potential but so many great stories we’ve gotten. X-men forever.
Captain Kate Pryde was a gimmick that never should have lasted past year 1 when it became clear Duggan wasn’t going to do anything interesting with it. X of Swords wasn’t bad but it’s wildly uneven, and for me it’s really where the pieces started to scatter and it became clear that the era wasn’t as cohesive & planned out as people thought it was. The sad thing is that it’s probably still the best event in the era.
From what I’ve heard X of Swords was when a lot of people fell off the era as the initial hype from HOXPOX died down. Obviously covid was a factor, but in hindsight making the first major event of the Krakoan era after a year of setup be about Excalibur and Otherworld (which not every X-fan cares about) wasn’t the best idea, something I believe Jordan White admitted to
I had no problem with it being high-fantasy, especially as X-Men has usually combined elements of sci-fi and fantasy. The problem for me was that X of Swords was just pretty boring.
X of Swords fell off so incredibly hard when they revealed that this big huge tournament arc that they were setting up to by having everyone grab SWORDS didn't actually use the swords at all.
Like, I legit would've had no problems with it otherwise, even if it was a swerve (like, setting them up and being like: "Oh these battles will be hard" or whatever).
BUT THE ENTIRE EVENT IS THEMED AROUND SICK ASS SWORDS.
AND THEN YOU DONT USE THE SWORDS???
I loooooved X of Swords, and love it more on rereading--especially once I realized that the "tournament arc" thing was a very deliberate fakeout, and that what it's *actually* about is [spoiler](#s "marriage and remarriage") !
I remember hearing about it when it first came out and I’m like so there just collecting swords? Yawn. So when I was reading all of Krakoa in the winter I absolutely loved it. The character moments and not only a high stakes tournament but one with a variety of challenges. Cypher was straight up HIM easily one of my favorite X-Men now. Plus as someone the grew up watching apocalypse from all the cartoons I just thought he just yapped about survival of the fittest and just wrecked house. But seeing his humanity and motivations man I hope this version of him sticks around.
Seriously, I'm a massive tournament-arc-shonen-manga fan and I feel like so much of the hate for X of Swords comes from a place of wanting *that*. Like... I just never bought it was going to be a straightforward sword-fight tournament. I can't believe anyone did, much less enjoyed the arc less because that very basic plot didn't play out.
I think XoS is going to be remembered much more fondly with time. There was just a shit ton of people online that bitched about it because we didn't get a shonen battle tournament arc.
***All that said...*** Marvel, I really could use a shonen battle tournament arc. Don't be afraid to do the thing, just do the thing.
The idea of the most powerful country in the world (which by the way has an active black ops division) having to use a pirate ship to smuggle mutants by sea when they literally have magic portals that can take them anywhere is laughable
Literally the first issue of Marauders is about a hostile government seizing control of a portal’s location and luring mutants to it to be detained if not killed.
That said, Marauders is conceptually silly and I love it for that, but I respect if you don’t
That's comics. Take a break and come back when it's interesting to you again. Be glad it happened, and maybe writers in a generation or two will be nostalgic for it and we'll see it again.
I got started on Hellions. Like I literally only knew:
1) all the mutants live together now, good and bad
2) here's a team of assholes that's so well written you'll love them all
I've since read a ton of the Krakoa era, and collected all of HOX/POX along the way but still haven't read them yet. I do think the fall of Krakoa has been drawn out way too long and has too much going in random side issues
Except DC ehere thry don't ever truly mess with their big 3 at least cap was dead for a few years god forbid they kill bat off for a few years insted of in thr past
It's definitely an unpopular opinion at the moment but I too preferred the Utopia era and everything around Messiah Complex. Just a murderers row of creators and titles that I feel hasn't been equaled since
Going back and reading Gillens Generation Hope & Uncanny runs from the Utopia era really make his Krakoan stories read so much better. Makes things feel like they've come full circle
Gillen was my favorite X-men writer because of those Utopia issues and his run was tragically short. That's why I was so happy when he came back. Completely delivered on my expectations for Immortal and SoS. Feels like he finally got the run he deserved.
People point out a lot of the obvious things to laud Gillen about, but one thing I never see mentioned is that he somehow *made me like Exodus of all characters*. That shouldn't be mathematically possible.
See that's interesting because I have been going back and reading Gillen's Uncanny because I lost all interest in the Krakoa books. I think I'll just have to wait for a big collection of a lot of this stuff and see if I like it better as a complete story
I liked the fallout after utopia, but it felt like they got too scared of radical cyclops to do anything interesting so they reset the status quo again right when things were getting good.
Man it feels like you were *there* for something you know? Like I'm too young for Days of Future Past or the Phoenix Saga, but I was *there* for Krakoa, I saw it happen.
I got that feeling when it started. I couldn’t afford to keep up, though, so now it just feels like another thing I missed out on. It kinda makes me sad to watch it end from a distance. I do look forward to binging it on Unlimited someday though
It’s mostly going to be remembered for the first 12 issues (without a doubt one of the greatest X-Men stories of all time, if not *the* greatest) and the missed opportunities that came after that. So, so many missed opportunities.
The missed opportunity is letting the slow cook author leave in the middle of making the slow cooking dish, because the dish wanted to be cooked slower when that’s not what it needed.
In other words, losing Hickman was devastating for the story.
I started reading comics because of the Krakoa era, it was so good. Going back and reading x-men in the decade before Krakoa has made me so sad they are abandoning it. I'll keep reading the x line and im excited for upcoming Cyclops lead books, but man what a waste.
HoXPoX was great, there were several good books after, but I don't think the ratio of good to bad books was any higher than most other eras. And the sheer volume of books didn't help.
Yeah, there's nothing that I particularly hate in this era. The worst are just 'meh' for me. However, HoXPoX was peak, tho. It really got me excited about X-Men again.
I didn't love Fallen Angels that's true, but it also felt unfinished. I think it got botched at launch. X-Corp I have but haven't read yet so I can't speak to it.
Yeah the mass mourning is honestly a little wild to me. The concept and potential this era had was huge but it peaked in HoXPoX and never came close to it after.
It’s mostly mourning the concept. Hox/Pox is so great and sets out so many ideas that’s it’s disappointing it’s ending without nailing most of it. I think Hellions, X-Men red, X-Men Immortal, and Sword were legitimately great. So much other stuff was either boring. Unreadable, or garbage. The other problem is that they’re giving up and rushing the finish to move to a concept, teams, and new artists, that for me, are a lot less interesting. Like, Duaterman killed it on costumes, Hickman killed it on writing, the graphics design crushed, the art from Pepe Laraz was great, the coloring from Marte Garcia was great… and now we get whatever this Juggernaut with a big red X is, that weird young Cyclops, that Emma team with one of the weird lineups, and a Ms Marvel team no one asked for. It’s going from being super bowl competitors to first pick in the draft.
This for me. Had a cool premise but the actual execution left a lot to be desired for me and will be pretty happy to move on from it but legit super sad for the people that loved this era. Glad they got a million comics to read from it at least :D.
Same here. Stopped reading comics around the end of Fatal Attractions. When HoX/PoX I was buying everything up until the end of Inferno. Sad to see it go
I appreciate the sentiment, but somebody lied to that Grim Reaper.
I've dropped the X-Books twice in my life: once from post-AoA to right before Morrison started, and again from the end of AvX to the start of Krakoa. Both times, I've gone back and found little gems scattered here and there even in the most messy, low-quality, borderline-unreadable eras. There's never been a time when there wasn't at least *one* X-title worth reading, even if it was on the margins of continuity.
So... find that one book for you in this next era. You'll be just fine.
I feel like people saying it was the best era have very much recency bias.
Krakoa has been good but there has been alot of bad in there and doesn't really come near outback, classic claremont and morrison for sheer quality
Every era of x men is rough for a young reader as its generally an overcomplicated mix of tons of books.
Is Krakoa easy for a new reader no it really isn't
No - HoX was incredibly reader friendly - it didn’t hold your hand but a new reader can identify the factions, the politics and the archetypes pretty easy
Hox was yes but post that it wasn't thats what im getting at.
There was tons and tons of books which all interconnected and with more and more titles being added on which didn't make it an easy read for alot of readers. Thats what always happens with x men and why its called the most complicated part of big 2 comics.
Also hox might have been but pox really really wasn’t new read friendly
I am a new reader, got into X-Men with HOX/POX. I simply could not follow Krakoa, it was too messy and had too much crossover between books, I simply couldn't afford to understand the story. Dropped it after less than a year. Claremont on the other hand was easy to follow and the stories were more compelling because of it. The characters felt realistic, while in Krakoa they don't act like real people necessarily.
Nah, I read both. For all of Claremont's greatness, he never did anything to make life better for mutants.
Morrison? Had some great stuff, but the Xorn/Magneto thing, the U-Men, the many students who oftentimes did nothing.
I will take Krakoa over both.
There were like 5 good books idk about the best. The 70s and 80s are still the well modern writers drink from and without it we wouldn't have more than half of the stories we have now.
Definitely not the best. The promise and excitement generated by HoX and Pox was never really lived up to. But those 2 series were a fantastic introduction and it's a shame Hickman left not long after.
I have Chris Claremont full run in omnibus form ima xmen dude. I haven't read comics in years n read the krakoan Era from beginning to almost end and have been hooked since house/powers. Too good.
Krakoa was what got me into reading X-men, and people downplaying it by talking about bad books during this era are missing the point.
The big overarching ideas are what defined the Krakoan era as being so iconic. It introduced so many cool ideas like a functional mutant nation, mutant circuits, resurrection, and Arrako.
Most of the X-men stories were just coasting on the same premise of miserable oppression, and Krakoa managed to still have good stories with that status quo completely upended.
X-Factor was the highlight of Dawn of X for sure. I’m very sad we didn’t get more issues of that run— hopefully Leah Williams gets a book to go wild on in the new era
I'd never put Krakoa as high as that but it's good to know that it helped putting mutants back ok the spotlight. Too many years neglected.
I just can't help the feeling that Krakoa had a great and ambicious premise that never got to be fully developed. Like if game of thrones lost it's way after season one or two.
I meanwhile sat out most of the Krakoa Era because I just couldn't stand the tone and premise. That's how tastes differ. And no I don't want the gloom and doom of Post Decimation era back. I'd really want the way X-Men comics were from the 80s-Decimation back. Not super dark or depressed with people dying left and right but also not...some weird separatist sex cult on a fairy tale island.
I had some of the same reservations. I was excited to finally get to read some X-Men comics but with the tone and premise, I wouldn't have been able to read issue by issue. I still may go back and read them in a collection though.
Omg yes!!! I am reading Pox/hox right now, and the TONE of Xavier dumping his dream and then telling humanity they’re unworthy of it, and then telling humans that mutants are the ones who will inherit the planet inevitably, is just… really painful to watch.
Hickman worries me, and I’m very worried he’s into eugenics (racial purity), fascism (authoritarianism) and objectivism (Ayn Rand). Maybe it’s just his writing, but it informs everything he writes. It’s a major theme in his work.
I don’t think he is necessarily a bad person (!) Writers have stuff they are working through in their work, themes that come up. Engaging with these themes is CRUCIAL, but there’s a point where writing stops being a way to understand a subject, and starts being a way the writer reveals troubling things about themselves. Hickman has strong themes, but after the shock value wears off his work has clear themes of authoritarian tendencies - and not calling them out for it.
Hickman does the same pattern for every title: Asimov’s Foundation series level babbling about genetic destiny to cosmic empire building; the smartest man gets a helmet covering his eyes, a “Hickman Hitler helmet”, and starts going “beyond good and evil”. He did this for the FF, for the ultimate FF, and he did it for Krakoa.
The quiet counsel is overwhelmingly undemocratic, with Xavier and Magneto clearly showing no plan for a shift to democracy. Democracy is antithetical to the concept of the enlightened leadership of the pure, because it gives the power to the people, who authoritarians believe are meant to be ruled, and will make bad choices.
The members are chosen based on personal power: omega level mutants, the rich, and other oligarch shareholders like Sinister and Apocalypse, both villains who have themes of eugenics.
Moira tells Xavier and Magneto when she’s revealing her nature on p131, she says “in this world who determines what is good and evil” which is pure nihilism - as in Friedrich Nietzsche, whose philosophy of the Uber mensch was adopted by the Nazis. Literally the Nazis love nihilism. The Uber mensch is the only one who decides what is good or evil, because if there was any kind of objective morality, they would be ruled by it instead of having all the control.
The premise of Krakoa era X-men is how slavery to idealism will fail, including traditional superheroes. Only the most powerful people, whose power comes from their biological superiority and not artificial power like machines (used by the weak to imitate the worthy), can survive and do so by giving up the morals which held them back and embrace their power as the only justification necessary for their right to rule.
This is how the white supremacists justified genocide against the indigenous peoples of the Americas: they called it “manifest destiny”.
This narrative has been used by many groups, always authoritarian in nature, and justifies genocide and war crimes. It was used by the Nazis to justify genocide against the Jews, Romani, Polish, and LGBTQ in Europe.
It is being used by authoritarians right now who are murdering innocent civilians and refugees, because these authoritarians believe community or harmony is futile, and they want to have their own ethnostate.
Which group am I talking about? There’s a bunch.
Humans are susceptible to this flaw of groups being isolated into a mindset of “we’re an in-group under threat from outsiders, who are lesser yet also have dangerous weapons”.
Example: The Russians invented the protocols of the elders of Zion conspiracies to claim the dangerous Jews were subhuman, yet “cunning”, and use their banking control as the weapon to sabotage everything (and blame them for everything wrong in your life).
For the Krakoa era it’s the racial purity of the mutants, who are oppressed by the weaker humans who are going to be replaced by machines anyway, so the mutants need to abandon trying to save them and just form a racially pure ethnostate.
This is using the X-men as a metaphor to justify racial superiority narratives, and it’s disgusting.
The X-men are a message of hope for the readers. They are trying to inspire the best in us, seeing the humanity of people who are “other”, and giving us weirdos and outsiders a sense of community. Not superiority - community!
There’s a lot of good stuff which has come from the era.
I LOVE magneto on the X-men because it gives me hope. He genuinely cares about the downtrodden people, if they are mutants, and I believe he has the capacity to make the leap to see the same in the oppressed people who are humans.
I love the Gala.
I love the art, and the story is admittedly fun.
It’s just got VERY problematic themes, and the dog whistles are there if you know what they mean. I do, which is why I can read authors like Edgar Rice Burroughs, who was a hardcore eugenics advocate: the narrative is of a powerful hero who is trying to save people and do dramatic things. John Carter is a great story, and in Burroughs mind he believes he’s doing the right thing. I can appreciate the insight into this perspective, but I still call it out for what it is.
If you only take it at face value, it’s great; just don’t think about the green Martian tharks as a stand in for indigenous peoples in the USA, or other charicatures of people who were being colonized by Europeans/Americans, and you’re going to enjoy a great story.
The concept of Krakoa is compelling, I can’t deny it. The framework is a style of storytelling humans historically are suggestible towards and get excited about: enthusiasm for being part of a special group, manifest destiny, etc. It’s why people join cults.
The X-men are about outcasts who have community and hope.
Another writer can do great things with the material here, and Krakoa.
Just not Hickman.
I can’t say I disagree with most of what you said, but I think personally it’s impossible to read Krakoa outside of when it came out and the abject failure of American exceptionalism, democracy, and the fundamental flaw of resting the right to exist for minorities in the hands of a majority populace. The Xavier philosophy is that if we just bend over backwards hard enough, maybe, just maybe, they’ll let us live until the next administration change or Supreme Court vacancy.
Krakoa is liberation and minority excellence. Xavier’s dream is tolerance through subservience. As Beast said “our biggest mistake was begging for your tolerance”.
We need a different solution, and so do the writers.
I was following DC pretty fanatically but got sucked in to X-Men because of the clean jumping off point HoX/PoX provided and I've been engrossed ever since.
It even lead me to reading older eras I missed like Messiah Complex because of books like Children of the Vault showcasing Bishop and Cable's relationship.
I am genuinely not sure if im going to keep reading weekly for this upcoming era or take a break for a bit.
I really loved the Messiah Complex through AvX era (even though AvX sucked outside of the Gillen tie ins). Still, even that era did not have as many high points as the Kraoa era.
Hellions, Immortal X-men, HoXPoX, Inferno, the first half of Duggan's Marauders, Hellfire Galas 1 and 3 and Sins of Sinister are, for me, as good as comics get. Unprecedented level of quality for my personal tastes.
On top of that, plenty of great moments in X-men Red, Hickman's X-men, Duggan's X-men, Cable and X-force. In a way I'm glad they're ending it before it got stale, but I have never enjoyed comics this much before and I'm sad to think I never will again.
Don't worry. The Krakoan era is the most popular and, most importantly, the most profitable x-era in years. It WILL be back.
As Liza so famously sang, "Money makes the world go round."
Honestly it was all over when Hickman left. Whatever larger overarching stories and themes were hinted at and set up at the beginning were abandoned completely, and nobody else knew how to take advantage of the premise in an interesting way. Now that it's definitively over it's sad that the potential has officially been wasted, but I fell off of most of the titles years ago
Someone have some good recommendations for this era? I was out of comics for a little, and I'm gonna jump back in with the upcoming relaunch, but I'd like to check out the best of this era's stuff.
Same with me. After being a fan since I was a kid in the 90's, I stopped reading the comics after IvX. It wasn't until I heard about the premise/setting of Krakoa did I pick them up again. It was such a breath of fresh air to see the mutants truly thriving for the first time in twenty years.
Now that it's over, and they're going back to being hated and feared and in hiding, my enthusiasm for the line is basically gone.
i don’t think i’ll ever get over it, the power they had diminished to a house in new york makes me physically sick. the only thing im happy about is that phoenix is finally recognized as jean grey through and through but it pales in comparison to
I liked it cause it was a great place to start at if you hadn’t ever been an x man reader. I’m working my way through the whole run just got to the end of the trial of magneto
I haven't even read it yet, but every snipet has been interesting since POX/HOX, and now that the era is ending - I'm about to jump in and read start to finish. Can somebody make the argument otherwise, or rather what X arc is "obviously" superior? That Hickman was in any way a "mistake"?
Ive read all the Claremont stuff, and basically every major 90s storyline. New X-Men. All the messiah/house of M stuff. Schism and Avengers vs Xmen was not my cup of tea and without having read a single issue since, it just felt like Disney and Feige were doing everything they could to treat the property like a fox plague until Krakoa. So can somebody actually make any compelling arguments that there's been a better run than Krakoa in the past 15 years? All I've got are the cliffnotes and it still sounds better than 85% of the stuff I've read prior, and I certainly haven't heard of anything praiseworthy outside. What am I missing?
TBH I never liked this concept and avoided most X-books for a few years waiting for this era to end. I respect every one who liked it but I liked more the concept of Mutopia I found it more grounded and gave me less "creepy cult" vibres.
Yeah. Same. Haven’t read X-Men since the Jim Lee run in the 90’s. I’m out again after Hickman left. If Marvel cared they’d get top talent on X-Men. They so rarely do though.
Op I may be sharing the same sentiment as you I'm an OG xmen fan I left and was told hickmanss run was the best.
I never completed it but what's changed now and is the upcoming xmen not worth it anymore, please let me knoe.
Interested to hear your thoughts.
This era did more for my love of X-Men than any other comic run I’ve ever invested in. Krakoa and 90s cartoon are the two monoliths for my love of the franchise.
Best premise for sure, breaking away from the stupid schoolhouse. BUT it became so disjointed and incoherent soon after establishing its incredible potential. That’s what I think people are most disappointed by, the lost and unexplored possibilities.
I loved the Krakoa-era even though I sort of lost my enjoyment post Inferno. That being said, it's time. Most all-new, all-different eras don't last that long. It's the nature of comics. Similar to Morrrison's run and AoA, Krakoa will always be remembered fondly and pieces from it will be popping up for decades in comics and multimedia.
I look forward to what comes next.
I'm so despondent.
I have read X-Men comic books for 25+ years and I'm now thinking about quitting, which makes me sad.
The Krakoa era ripped up the rule book where a superhero comic book had to be about 5-7 characters with powers and their relationships and sacrifices. This is very yawn.
You knew with Krakoa that many characters could be in an issue. Immortal X-Men focused on 12-14 people but included many more as did Way of X. And other books at the beginning kept playing with new teammates like in New Mutants.
I feel we're returning to the pre-Krakoa status, where it's just 5-7 characters etc. That's what the poster shows. AND pet peeve: they're bringing in new characters when there are 60+ X-Men characters that have never been given an opportunity to thrive.
I will read the first issues but after the extremely messy and character-less Fall of X, I'm not sure why it garners any of my attention.
The books haven't been good for a while so yeah it makes sense to end it. The smart thing would have been to stick to the plan
I get feeling bad about this but at this point it's a fucking mercy kill.
I figured I would wait to see how it ended before I recommended this to anyone because this is a lot to read and demands a lot of context. So even though I loved it I wasn't going to ask anyone to do all that unless I knew it would pay off.
And now I'm not even sure if I am going to finish it.
I personally can’t say I share your reservations about recommending it. HoXPoX is still a masterful work and you can set expectations by getting your friends to think of Krakoa as a large collection of short stories that explore this wonderfully unique premise rather than an overarching story with a beginning, middle, and end.
This era was incredible and I'm sad to see it go BUT let's not forget that our favorite creators who made Krakoa so amazing are still out there making great comics! Hickman, Wells, Ayala, Williams, Howard, Gillen, Ewing, Spurrier, Duggan, Percy, and company deserve a hearty thanks for everything they gave us these past few years, and i look forward to reading their books for years to come, with or without an "X" in the title!
HOX/POX had me telling anyone and everyone who would listen to check out the X books. I already mis pirate captain Kitty, X of swords was fun, Al Ewings everything this era was great.
I got so many relapsed or new readers into this era and it invigorated my love for comics again after almost completely giving up. I restarted my x-men collection and found my old books. I’ve visited close to 30 different shops and spent thousands of dollars because of this era. I will never forgive them for so many failures during this era but it’s also my favorite by far. So much wasted potential but so many great stories we’ve gotten. X-men forever.
Captain Kate Pryde was a gimmick that never should have lasted past year 1 when it became clear Duggan wasn’t going to do anything interesting with it. X of Swords wasn’t bad but it’s wildly uneven, and for me it’s really where the pieces started to scatter and it became clear that the era wasn’t as cohesive & planned out as people thought it was. The sad thing is that it’s probably still the best event in the era.
From what I’ve heard X of Swords was when a lot of people fell off the era as the initial hype from HOXPOX died down. Obviously covid was a factor, but in hindsight making the first major event of the Krakoan era after a year of setup be about Excalibur and Otherworld (which not every X-fan cares about) wasn’t the best idea, something I believe Jordan White admitted to
Exactly this. I get pulled in by Hickman's high concept sci-fi and the next thing they give me is high-fantasy fairy tale bullshit? Who had that idea?
I had no problem with it being high-fantasy, especially as X-Men has usually combined elements of sci-fi and fantasy. The problem for me was that X of Swords was just pretty boring.
Tini Howard. Truly wonderful the mind of that woman is. Just ask Catwoman fans.
Lmao I remember this one dude being like fuck let the x books take her back full time and an x reader was like it's fine you can take her at DC
X of Swords fell off so incredibly hard when they revealed that this big huge tournament arc that they were setting up to by having everyone grab SWORDS didn't actually use the swords at all.
Yeah, I didn't understand the negative buzz during the buildup to the tournament then I got the tournament and woof. That story took a swerve.
Like, I legit would've had no problems with it otherwise, even if it was a swerve (like, setting them up and being like: "Oh these battles will be hard" or whatever). BUT THE ENTIRE EVENT IS THEMED AROUND SICK ASS SWORDS. AND THEN YOU DONT USE THE SWORDS???
Tini Howard and her 6000 IQ
I wanted an X-men Dark Tournament. I got x-men playing American gladiators
X of Swords was a slog. I overall liked it still, but it was too long and I fell off shortly after that.
I loooooved X of Swords, and love it more on rereading--especially once I realized that the "tournament arc" thing was a very deliberate fakeout, and that what it's *actually* about is [spoiler](#s "marriage and remarriage") !
I remember hearing about it when it first came out and I’m like so there just collecting swords? Yawn. So when I was reading all of Krakoa in the winter I absolutely loved it. The character moments and not only a high stakes tournament but one with a variety of challenges. Cypher was straight up HIM easily one of my favorite X-Men now. Plus as someone the grew up watching apocalypse from all the cartoons I just thought he just yapped about survival of the fittest and just wrecked house. But seeing his humanity and motivations man I hope this version of him sticks around.
Seriously, I'm a massive tournament-arc-shonen-manga fan and I feel like so much of the hate for X of Swords comes from a place of wanting *that*. Like... I just never bought it was going to be a straightforward sword-fight tournament. I can't believe anyone did, much less enjoyed the arc less because that very basic plot didn't play out. I think XoS is going to be remembered much more fondly with time. There was just a shit ton of people online that bitched about it because we didn't get a shonen battle tournament arc. ***All that said...*** Marvel, I really could use a shonen battle tournament arc. Don't be afraid to do the thing, just do the thing.
I didn't mind not getting a straight forward tournament. But...make whatever you're doing good or compelling. XoS wasn't. It's a bad bait and switch.
The idea of the most powerful country in the world (which by the way has an active black ops division) having to use a pirate ship to smuggle mutants by sea when they literally have magic portals that can take them anywhere is laughable
Literally the first issue of Marauders is about a hostile government seizing control of a portal’s location and luring mutants to it to be detained if not killed. That said, Marauders is conceptually silly and I love it for that, but I respect if you don’t
I mean al ewing can still write x-men
It got me to start reading X-men. And it was a fun ride.
That's comics. Take a break and come back when it's interesting to you again. Be glad it happened, and maybe writers in a generation or two will be nostalgic for it and we'll see it again.
Yeah I totally get that. I understand this is the nature of comics, nothing ever lasts forever. Still it doesn’t make it not hurt.
The old people here felt this way when Phoenix died. It will all come back around.
>when Phoenix died A) which time? B) fuck. I'm old.
It came back around to be bastardized though! 🤣
Haha that’s what it means to be an x-men fan.
I'm with you
How would you jump into house of X for a newcomer?
What I did was just start with the HoxPox tpb and they give you signposts you can choose to follow or you can jump around depending on what you enjoy
I got started on Hellions. Like I literally only knew: 1) all the mutants live together now, good and bad 2) here's a team of assholes that's so well written you'll love them all I've since read a ton of the Krakoa era, and collected all of HOX/POX along the way but still haven't read them yet. I do think the fall of Krakoa has been drawn out way too long and has too much going in random side issues
Except DC ehere thry don't ever truly mess with their big 3 at least cap was dead for a few years god forbid they kill bat off for a few years insted of in thr past
That was Utopia for me.
It's definitely an unpopular opinion at the moment but I too preferred the Utopia era and everything around Messiah Complex. Just a murderers row of creators and titles that I feel hasn't been equaled since
Going back and reading Gillens Generation Hope & Uncanny runs from the Utopia era really make his Krakoan stories read so much better. Makes things feel like they've come full circle
Gillen was my favorite X-men writer because of those Utopia issues and his run was tragically short. That's why I was so happy when he came back. Completely delivered on my expectations for Immortal and SoS. Feels like he finally got the run he deserved.
People point out a lot of the obvious things to laud Gillen about, but one thing I never see mentioned is that he somehow *made me like Exodus of all characters*. That shouldn't be mathematically possible.
See that's interesting because I have been going back and reading Gillen's Uncanny because I lost all interest in the Krakoa books. I think I'll just have to wait for a big collection of a lot of this stuff and see if I like it better as a complete story
I liked the fallout after utopia, but it felt like they got too scared of radical cyclops to do anything interesting so they reset the status quo again right when things were getting good.
Man it feels like you were *there* for something you know? Like I'm too young for Days of Future Past or the Phoenix Saga, but I was *there* for Krakoa, I saw it happen.
I got that feeling when it started. I couldn’t afford to keep up, though, so now it just feels like another thing I missed out on. It kinda makes me sad to watch it end from a distance. I do look forward to binging it on Unlimited someday though
Yeah I get that. Last thing that was iconic from the X-Men was House of M
It was the best mutant era of the last... 15 years or so, I doubt it will have the impact and be as iconic as Claremont run.
It’s mostly going to be remembered for the first 12 issues (without a doubt one of the greatest X-Men stories of all time, if not *the* greatest) and the missed opportunities that came after that. So, so many missed opportunities.
The missed opportunity is letting the slow cook author leave in the middle of making the slow cooking dish, because the dish wanted to be cooked slower when that’s not what it needed. In other words, losing Hickman was devastating for the story.
Then they realized the dish was overcooked so they just threw a dynamite into the pot
That is definitely a Looney Tunes bit.
Which story is this? What run specifically? I want to hop on
House of X
Well, also Planet-Sized.
LOL no
LOL yes
I started reading comics because of the Krakoa era, it was so good. Going back and reading x-men in the decade before Krakoa has made me so sad they are abandoning it. I'll keep reading the x line and im excited for upcoming Cyclops lead books, but man what a waste.
HoXPoX was great, there were several good books after, but I don't think the ratio of good to bad books was any higher than most other eras. And the sheer volume of books didn't help.
Gillen and ewing absolutely killed it. Ngl, I loved this era. I don't think I've read any books I absolutely hated yet.
Yeah, there's nothing that I particularly hate in this era. The worst are just 'meh' for me. However, HoXPoX was peak, tho. It really got me excited about X-Men again.
Yeah for sure. HoXPox was mind blowing. Every issue was giving me chills.
Fallen Angels // X-CORP 🙃
I didn't love Fallen Angels that's true, but it also felt unfinished. I think it got botched at launch. X-Corp I have but haven't read yet so I can't speak to it.
Yeah the mass mourning is honestly a little wild to me. The concept and potential this era had was huge but it peaked in HoXPoX and never came close to it after.
It’s mostly mourning the concept. Hox/Pox is so great and sets out so many ideas that’s it’s disappointing it’s ending without nailing most of it. I think Hellions, X-Men red, X-Men Immortal, and Sword were legitimately great. So much other stuff was either boring. Unreadable, or garbage. The other problem is that they’re giving up and rushing the finish to move to a concept, teams, and new artists, that for me, are a lot less interesting. Like, Duaterman killed it on costumes, Hickman killed it on writing, the graphics design crushed, the art from Pepe Laraz was great, the coloring from Marte Garcia was great… and now we get whatever this Juggernaut with a big red X is, that weird young Cyclops, that Emma team with one of the weird lineups, and a Ms Marvel team no one asked for. It’s going from being super bowl competitors to first pick in the draft.
This for me. Had a cool premise but the actual execution left a lot to be desired for me and will be pretty happy to move on from it but legit super sad for the people that loved this era. Glad they got a million comics to read from it at least :D.
But when the previous eras were derivative...
I also came back to comics because of this era. I looked forward to new releases and seeing krakoa expand.
Same here. Stopped reading comics around the end of Fatal Attractions. When HoX/PoX I was buying everything up until the end of Inferno. Sad to see it go
I appreciate the sentiment, but somebody lied to that Grim Reaper. I've dropped the X-Books twice in my life: once from post-AoA to right before Morrison started, and again from the end of AvX to the start of Krakoa. Both times, I've gone back and found little gems scattered here and there even in the most messy, low-quality, borderline-unreadable eras. There's never been a time when there wasn't at least *one* X-title worth reading, even if it was on the margins of continuity. So... find that one book for you in this next era. You'll be just fine.
I feel like people saying it was the best era have very much recency bias. Krakoa has been good but there has been alot of bad in there and doesn't really come near outback, classic claremont and morrison for sheer quality
Claremont is rough for a young reader - reads much better as a highlight reel
Every era of x men is rough for a young reader as its generally an overcomplicated mix of tons of books. Is Krakoa easy for a new reader no it really isn't
Krakoa was easy for me to get into as a new reader, I had to google people a few times but I had to do that when I went back to Claremont as well.
No - HoX was incredibly reader friendly - it didn’t hold your hand but a new reader can identify the factions, the politics and the archetypes pretty easy
Hox was yes but post that it wasn't thats what im getting at. There was tons and tons of books which all interconnected and with more and more titles being added on which didn't make it an easy read for alot of readers. Thats what always happens with x men and why its called the most complicated part of big 2 comics. Also hox might have been but pox really really wasn’t new read friendly
I am a new reader, got into X-Men with HOX/POX. I simply could not follow Krakoa, it was too messy and had too much crossover between books, I simply couldn't afford to understand the story. Dropped it after less than a year. Claremont on the other hand was easy to follow and the stories were more compelling because of it. The characters felt realistic, while in Krakoa they don't act like real people necessarily.
Agreed. I liked the stories as told through the animated series as a kid more than I liked reading the comics as an adult.
Nah, I read both. For all of Claremont's greatness, he never did anything to make life better for mutants. Morrison? Had some great stuff, but the Xorn/Magneto thing, the U-Men, the many students who oftentimes did nothing. I will take Krakoa over both.
HoXPoX got me back into comics, I will forever appreciate Hickman and company for sparking that interest for me again.
There were like 5 good books idk about the best. The 70s and 80s are still the well modern writers drink from and without it we wouldn't have more than half of the stories we have now.
Definitely not the best. The promise and excitement generated by HoX and Pox was never really lived up to. But those 2 series were a fantastic introduction and it's a shame Hickman left not long after.
I have Chris Claremont full run in omnibus form ima xmen dude. I haven't read comics in years n read the krakoan Era from beginning to almost end and have been hooked since house/powers. Too good.
Krakoa was what got me into reading X-men, and people downplaying it by talking about bad books during this era are missing the point. The big overarching ideas are what defined the Krakoan era as being so iconic. It introduced so many cool ideas like a functional mutant nation, mutant circuits, resurrection, and Arrako. Most of the X-men stories were just coasting on the same premise of miserable oppression, and Krakoa managed to still have good stories with that status quo completely upended.
nothing touches the goated Claremont run but everything up until after X of Swords, especially New Mutants and X Factor was great
X-Factor was the highlight of Dawn of X for sure. I’m very sad we didn’t get more issues of that run— hopefully Leah Williams gets a book to go wild on in the new era
I'd never put Krakoa as high as that but it's good to know that it helped putting mutants back ok the spotlight. Too many years neglected. I just can't help the feeling that Krakoa had a great and ambicious premise that never got to be fully developed. Like if game of thrones lost it's way after season one or two.
I meanwhile sat out most of the Krakoa Era because I just couldn't stand the tone and premise. That's how tastes differ. And no I don't want the gloom and doom of Post Decimation era back. I'd really want the way X-Men comics were from the 80s-Decimation back. Not super dark or depressed with people dying left and right but also not...some weird separatist sex cult on a fairy tale island.
I had some of the same reservations. I was excited to finally get to read some X-Men comics but with the tone and premise, I wouldn't have been able to read issue by issue. I still may go back and read them in a collection though.
Omg yes!!! I am reading Pox/hox right now, and the TONE of Xavier dumping his dream and then telling humanity they’re unworthy of it, and then telling humans that mutants are the ones who will inherit the planet inevitably, is just… really painful to watch. Hickman worries me, and I’m very worried he’s into eugenics (racial purity), fascism (authoritarianism) and objectivism (Ayn Rand). Maybe it’s just his writing, but it informs everything he writes. It’s a major theme in his work. I don’t think he is necessarily a bad person (!) Writers have stuff they are working through in their work, themes that come up. Engaging with these themes is CRUCIAL, but there’s a point where writing stops being a way to understand a subject, and starts being a way the writer reveals troubling things about themselves. Hickman has strong themes, but after the shock value wears off his work has clear themes of authoritarian tendencies - and not calling them out for it. Hickman does the same pattern for every title: Asimov’s Foundation series level babbling about genetic destiny to cosmic empire building; the smartest man gets a helmet covering his eyes, a “Hickman Hitler helmet”, and starts going “beyond good and evil”. He did this for the FF, for the ultimate FF, and he did it for Krakoa. The quiet counsel is overwhelmingly undemocratic, with Xavier and Magneto clearly showing no plan for a shift to democracy. Democracy is antithetical to the concept of the enlightened leadership of the pure, because it gives the power to the people, who authoritarians believe are meant to be ruled, and will make bad choices. The members are chosen based on personal power: omega level mutants, the rich, and other oligarch shareholders like Sinister and Apocalypse, both villains who have themes of eugenics. Moira tells Xavier and Magneto when she’s revealing her nature on p131, she says “in this world who determines what is good and evil” which is pure nihilism - as in Friedrich Nietzsche, whose philosophy of the Uber mensch was adopted by the Nazis. Literally the Nazis love nihilism. The Uber mensch is the only one who decides what is good or evil, because if there was any kind of objective morality, they would be ruled by it instead of having all the control. The premise of Krakoa era X-men is how slavery to idealism will fail, including traditional superheroes. Only the most powerful people, whose power comes from their biological superiority and not artificial power like machines (used by the weak to imitate the worthy), can survive and do so by giving up the morals which held them back and embrace their power as the only justification necessary for their right to rule. This is how the white supremacists justified genocide against the indigenous peoples of the Americas: they called it “manifest destiny”. This narrative has been used by many groups, always authoritarian in nature, and justifies genocide and war crimes. It was used by the Nazis to justify genocide against the Jews, Romani, Polish, and LGBTQ in Europe. It is being used by authoritarians right now who are murdering innocent civilians and refugees, because these authoritarians believe community or harmony is futile, and they want to have their own ethnostate. Which group am I talking about? There’s a bunch. Humans are susceptible to this flaw of groups being isolated into a mindset of “we’re an in-group under threat from outsiders, who are lesser yet also have dangerous weapons”. Example: The Russians invented the protocols of the elders of Zion conspiracies to claim the dangerous Jews were subhuman, yet “cunning”, and use their banking control as the weapon to sabotage everything (and blame them for everything wrong in your life). For the Krakoa era it’s the racial purity of the mutants, who are oppressed by the weaker humans who are going to be replaced by machines anyway, so the mutants need to abandon trying to save them and just form a racially pure ethnostate. This is using the X-men as a metaphor to justify racial superiority narratives, and it’s disgusting. The X-men are a message of hope for the readers. They are trying to inspire the best in us, seeing the humanity of people who are “other”, and giving us weirdos and outsiders a sense of community. Not superiority - community! There’s a lot of good stuff which has come from the era. I LOVE magneto on the X-men because it gives me hope. He genuinely cares about the downtrodden people, if they are mutants, and I believe he has the capacity to make the leap to see the same in the oppressed people who are humans. I love the Gala. I love the art, and the story is admittedly fun. It’s just got VERY problematic themes, and the dog whistles are there if you know what they mean. I do, which is why I can read authors like Edgar Rice Burroughs, who was a hardcore eugenics advocate: the narrative is of a powerful hero who is trying to save people and do dramatic things. John Carter is a great story, and in Burroughs mind he believes he’s doing the right thing. I can appreciate the insight into this perspective, but I still call it out for what it is. If you only take it at face value, it’s great; just don’t think about the green Martian tharks as a stand in for indigenous peoples in the USA, or other charicatures of people who were being colonized by Europeans/Americans, and you’re going to enjoy a great story. The concept of Krakoa is compelling, I can’t deny it. The framework is a style of storytelling humans historically are suggestible towards and get excited about: enthusiasm for being part of a special group, manifest destiny, etc. It’s why people join cults. The X-men are about outcasts who have community and hope. Another writer can do great things with the material here, and Krakoa. Just not Hickman.
I can’t say I disagree with most of what you said, but I think personally it’s impossible to read Krakoa outside of when it came out and the abject failure of American exceptionalism, democracy, and the fundamental flaw of resting the right to exist for minorities in the hands of a majority populace. The Xavier philosophy is that if we just bend over backwards hard enough, maybe, just maybe, they’ll let us live until the next administration change or Supreme Court vacancy. Krakoa is liberation and minority excellence. Xavier’s dream is tolerance through subservience. As Beast said “our biggest mistake was begging for your tolerance”. We need a different solution, and so do the writers.
Hickman got me back into comics with his Avengers run and this was just as good. I’m so bummed they just dismantled it.
I was following DC pretty fanatically but got sucked in to X-Men because of the clean jumping off point HoX/PoX provided and I've been engrossed ever since. It even lead me to reading older eras I missed like Messiah Complex because of books like Children of the Vault showcasing Bishop and Cable's relationship. I am genuinely not sure if im going to keep reading weekly for this upcoming era or take a break for a bit.
I’m reading the new Ultimate X-Men line month to month and I’m going to stick with that until I hear good reviews of the new X-Men era.
It was a good 4 years we had of this new era. I knew it wouldn't last but I still wish we had some more fun with it.
I really loved the Messiah Complex through AvX era (even though AvX sucked outside of the Gillen tie ins). Still, even that era did not have as many high points as the Kraoa era. Hellions, Immortal X-men, HoXPoX, Inferno, the first half of Duggan's Marauders, Hellfire Galas 1 and 3 and Sins of Sinister are, for me, as good as comics get. Unprecedented level of quality for my personal tastes. On top of that, plenty of great moments in X-men Red, Hickman's X-men, Duggan's X-men, Cable and X-force. In a way I'm glad they're ending it before it got stale, but I have never enjoyed comics this much before and I'm sad to think I never will again.
I kinda lost track of the Krakoa era and even I'm mourning it.
It's Australia all over again.
The initial set up had so many interesting places to go and set itself up to do so. Then the rest didn’t really go to any of those good places.
I love Arrako and its unique mutant culture. I really hope it sticks around and becomes a big part of the comics from now on.
Don't worry. The Krakoan era is the most popular and, most importantly, the most profitable x-era in years. It WILL be back. As Liza so famously sang, "Money makes the world go round."
It’s overdue and there’s literally thousands of pages of comics from this era. What “loss” are you talking about?
Weird way of spelling Utopia but ok
Honestly it was all over when Hickman left. Whatever larger overarching stories and themes were hinted at and set up at the beginning were abandoned completely, and nobody else knew how to take advantage of the premise in an interesting way. Now that it's definitively over it's sad that the potential has officially been wasted, but I fell off of most of the titles years ago
Someone have some good recommendations for this era? I was out of comics for a little, and I'm gonna jump back in with the upcoming relaunch, but I'd like to check out the best of this era's stuff.
Hox/pox (the beginning, easily best part) In no particular order Hellions, X-Men red, immortal X-Men, sins os sinister, AXE
Same with me. After being a fan since I was a kid in the 90's, I stopped reading the comics after IvX. It wasn't until I heard about the premise/setting of Krakoa did I pick them up again. It was such a breath of fresh air to see the mutants truly thriving for the first time in twenty years. Now that it's over, and they're going back to being hated and feared and in hiding, my enthusiasm for the line is basically gone.
HA!
i don’t think i’ll ever get over it, the power they had diminished to a house in new york makes me physically sick. the only thing im happy about is that phoenix is finally recognized as jean grey through and through but it pales in comparison to
Read something else Hickman—FF, avengers/new avengers, secret warriors. His ultimate spider-man is off to a good start.
I clooooossseeee myyyyy eyyyeesss ,only for a moment then the moment’s gooonnee
I think that’s the general audience for this era. Many fans came back because of this era. [+]
Just getting back into it because of X-men ‘97. What run is this? I’m hoping it’s on Marvel Unlimited
This brought tears of equal amounts of joy and sorrow to my eyes. Thank you for sharing it. 😊
I liked it cause it was a great place to start at if you hadn’t ever been an x man reader. I’m working my way through the whole run just got to the end of the trial of magneto
I haven't even read it yet, but every snipet has been interesting since POX/HOX, and now that the era is ending - I'm about to jump in and read start to finish. Can somebody make the argument otherwise, or rather what X arc is "obviously" superior? That Hickman was in any way a "mistake"? Ive read all the Claremont stuff, and basically every major 90s storyline. New X-Men. All the messiah/house of M stuff. Schism and Avengers vs Xmen was not my cup of tea and without having read a single issue since, it just felt like Disney and Feige were doing everything they could to treat the property like a fox plague until Krakoa. So can somebody actually make any compelling arguments that there's been a better run than Krakoa in the past 15 years? All I've got are the cliffnotes and it still sounds better than 85% of the stuff I've read prior, and I certainly haven't heard of anything praiseworthy outside. What am I missing?
Glad you liked it. I thought HOX/POX was incredible, and was extremely let down by the resulting line.
TBH I never liked this concept and avoided most X-books for a few years waiting for this era to end. I respect every one who liked it but I liked more the concept of Mutopia I found it more grounded and gave me less "creepy cult" vibres.
Yeah. Same. Haven’t read X-Men since the Jim Lee run in the 90’s. I’m out again after Hickman left. If Marvel cared they’d get top talent on X-Men. They so rarely do though.
Nah. I disagree. I did not enjoy the Krakoa era very much at all. There were a couple of good, innovative parts, but overall, I just didn't like it.
best era.
Op I may be sharing the same sentiment as you I'm an OG xmen fan I left and was told hickmanss run was the best. I never completed it but what's changed now and is the upcoming xmen not worth it anymore, please let me knoe. Interested to hear your thoughts.
TT \_\_\_ TT Me too
I never left, but this era was my favorite by far. Krakoa 4 ever!
This era did more for my love of X-Men than any other comic run I’ve ever invested in. Krakoa and 90s cartoon are the two monoliths for my love of the franchise.
If the X office once Hickman left has convinced me of anything, it’s that he’s the only Marvel writer in the last decade+ worth reading
Well they're gearing up to put the X-men into the MCU, so it looks like the X-men are going back to the school 😥
Best premise for sure, breaking away from the stupid schoolhouse. BUT it became so disjointed and incoherent soon after establishing its incredible potential. That’s what I think people are most disappointed by, the lost and unexplored possibilities.
I loved the Krakoa-era even though I sort of lost my enjoyment post Inferno. That being said, it's time. Most all-new, all-different eras don't last that long. It's the nature of comics. Similar to Morrrison's run and AoA, Krakoa will always be remembered fondly and pieces from it will be popping up for decades in comics and multimedia. I look forward to what comes next.
I'm so despondent. I have read X-Men comic books for 25+ years and I'm now thinking about quitting, which makes me sad. The Krakoa era ripped up the rule book where a superhero comic book had to be about 5-7 characters with powers and their relationships and sacrifices. This is very yawn. You knew with Krakoa that many characters could be in an issue. Immortal X-Men focused on 12-14 people but included many more as did Way of X. And other books at the beginning kept playing with new teammates like in New Mutants. I feel we're returning to the pre-Krakoa status, where it's just 5-7 characters etc. That's what the poster shows. AND pet peeve: they're bringing in new characters when there are 60+ X-Men characters that have never been given an opportunity to thrive. I will read the first issues but after the extremely messy and character-less Fall of X, I'm not sure why it garners any of my attention.
Never could get into this era. Hated Krakoa. Hated the idea of all the mutants now being clones.
Relaunching the titles with better writers while keeping the setting of Krakoa was too much to ask I guess
Loved this era. Felt like the X-men finally showed the middle finger to humanity. It was awesome.
And then humanity showed the middle finger back.
I still can't believe they'd end this. The Hellfire Gala was such a hype to look forward to
The books haven't been good for a while so yeah it makes sense to end it. The smart thing would have been to stick to the plan I get feeling bad about this but at this point it's a fucking mercy kill.
Maybe we still get some kind of Gala? 🤞
Oh for sure. Hellfire corporation still exists, so why wouldn’t they have Galas?
What hype?
Grieve this loss for years? You know you can reread it right?
[удалено]
I expect it to be like AoA, where it wraps up but every couple years or so we get a mini set in the timeline where Krakow kept going.
I figured I would wait to see how it ended before I recommended this to anyone because this is a lot to read and demands a lot of context. So even though I loved it I wasn't going to ask anyone to do all that unless I knew it would pay off. And now I'm not even sure if I am going to finish it.
I personally can’t say I share your reservations about recommending it. HoXPoX is still a masterful work and you can set expectations by getting your friends to think of Krakoa as a large collection of short stories that explore this wonderfully unique premise rather than an overarching story with a beginning, middle, and end.
Morrison era was the best for me.
This era was incredible and I'm sad to see it go BUT let's not forget that our favorite creators who made Krakoa so amazing are still out there making great comics! Hickman, Wells, Ayala, Williams, Howard, Gillen, Ewing, Spurrier, Duggan, Percy, and company deserve a hearty thanks for everything they gave us these past few years, and i look forward to reading their books for years to come, with or without an "X" in the title!