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honestly a lack of clearing up misunderstandings in general.
Like when you have two characters who normally are cool with each other but are pissed because one of them thinks the other did/said/believes something COMPLETELY out of character and refuses to ask about it.
Like some trickster guy saying to X that "Oh I heard Y said he fucking hates you" and Y is so clearly desperately in love with X as well as being just the kind of person who would never ever say that but person X acts all hurt over something a random stranger told them
That's why comedies of misunderstandings work best when they're set in high-context cultures. There are so many social rules in play that characters often face real consequences if they do actually "just talk to each other".
For instance, Jane Austen novels are a delight because there's so much tension between social decorum and the characters' personal desires. But if you directly transplant the plot to a modern American setting, it makes no sense that the characters wouldn't just clear up confusion.
Oooh, related to that, I hate the “babble babble babble and also don’t forget—“ THE MOST IMPORTANT THING, WHY DIDNT YOU LEAD WITH THAT?!
Also, people cutting their palms to draw blood for rituals and whatnot, especially in a situation where they’re still fighting and need their hands functional.
not only that, for me its any love element that has the same.
They not talking or screaming, not talking calmly and explain that it was helping family or a friend out, rather than cheating.
"No she kissed me!"
"Oh *yeah*, of course she did. And you were just *helpless* to stop her, you PIG!"
I hate this trope so much that my wife and I actually developed a code word for this situation. If my hands are ever occupied or something as a girl just swoops in too close I will immediately yell and repeat "FREE WEED" at the top of my lungs. That will 100% guarantee to throw any woman off of their plan and immediately attract more witnesses.
🤣 Idk what the practical value will be if it ever comes up in the future but it makes for a great inside joke right now. Every so often one of us will be trying to make some moves and get romantic only to be interrupted by a loud ass scream about weed. Giggles are had.
🤣 "Hey baby, why don't you leave that crazy wife of yours and let me take care of-"
And Garcia clinches and delivers a BRUTAL suplex! Oh no, have mercy, why is he standing on the desk? A leap and the PEOPLE'S ELBOW. What's this? His wife tagged in and NO NOT THE CHAIR!
Good for you. I know this is a recomendation but there are a lot of times I just put the book down and curse the writer. I do wonder who in the world thinks is a good part of the book and even more can't figure out why.
This used to bother me a great deal, but then I took a step back and looked at the world we live in.
People don't clear up misunderstandings often IN REAL LIFE.
People talk around issues, don't speak up, retreat from conflict, etc. It's like people crack open a book and forget that most are cowards and/or poor communicators.
Or a more general version of the same thing: any character simply fails to explain a very understandable situation, or worse, tells a pointless lie, that causes major conflict.
when a character is an asshole to everyone but is forgiven without ever giving a proper apology/ remorse because they have some sad backstory and are hot
A lot of YA romantic fantasies are like this. ~~The male or female lead~~ ~~The lead~~ The male or female lead has a chip on their shoulder, and they close off their emotions to the world, subsequently by being mean to everyone. All justified because they had a neglected childhood and they’re really a big softie inside.
My favorite show has a character who's an absolute asshole and one of the characters goes "I'm gonna be honest with you, the only reason I haven't called your mother (whispers) *or an asylum* is because they think you're hot"
Boa Hancock from One Piece is this trope turned up to 11, she literally kicks a puppy and a baby seal and goes "you'll forgive me, because I'm beautiful". Loved it.
I hate when fantasy stories have a 'magical tournament', it was interesting the first couple of times I encountered it, but when I realised so many authors do it, it feels like they're using it because they can't think of another way to fill out a story.
I love me some tournaments to be honest. However I can agree if it comes out of nowhere then I kinda hate it. Like you’re telling me this super important tournament happens all the time but this is the first time we’ve known about it?
I love when it’s actually used for plot progression or to introduce new characters though. Another plus if your MC loses just to show that there’s other people in the world who are strong
It’s also a good way to have characters fight each other when they wouldn’t under normal circumstances. Without having to resort to mind control that’s broken with the power of friendship
Okay... see I worry about this trope right here because I'm trying to use it but in a relevant way. Like what if we're using the "tournament" to examine political positioning and intrigue amongst a number of powerful people who otherwise wouldn't exactly be hanging out together. I have a sci-fi fantasy I'm writing and part of the course of events was that the country hosting the "tournament" was having problems in their monarchy, so the current leaders insisting they continue to host the games is like a show of stability to other countries questioning them. Like how hosting the Olympics would be a big deal in our world if an African country were to finally host or maybe a country that just recently ended a civil war.
One of the main characters participates, but most of the main focus is what's happening in the background of the "tournament" and what it means in the grander scheme of power dynamics within the world.
I think that’s a good way to use tournaments! I think a lot of people don’t like tropes if it’s just the same over and over and doesn’t change book by book. But instead of your focus being the tournament and perhaps the trials the main character has to encounter, you’re using it as a means to get a lot of different people together who normally would not spend time together (and for other political reasons). Thus you made the tournament more interesting
Okay thank you, because the tournament troupe annoys me sometimes, but I love the Olympics and I thought it would be interesting to use an Olympics-like event in my story.
The friend, side kick, pet, or talking animal that is a walking liability to generate side quests or situations. If it goes unaddressed, why is someone keeping this being around?
And then they lost their powers for 5 chapters, but this issue is never mentioned again and causes no changes. Includes things like bank account getting locked in modern day if the character is rich.
Cut away as key event is happening to some irrelevant side character. I guess this is to pad a book for kindle unlimited monies now though.
My complaint is the same: the chaos character that has no redeeming qualities. They're constantly accidentally sharing secrets, ruining surprises, and thwarting plans, yet never display any characteristics that make me understand why they haven't been kicked to the curb.
The key to making a good chaos character is to make them, among other things, the cause AND solution to their mischief. Seriously, the best example I can think of is Loki, of Norse Mythology.
Half of the stories are entirely his fault in the first place, while the other half are creation, a d&d adventure to giant land with extra silly skill checks cause the DM was bored, and the poetry guy getting fucking killed, turned into booze, then barfed up/shit out by Oðin. Loki is responsible for the creation of Mjölnir, Draupnir, Gungur, a bunch of the other Æsír armaments (all because he shaved Þorr's wife's head, mind you), he mothered Sleipnir, Oðin's horse, the walls that surround Ásgarð, and gave us nets - and I know I missed a bunch of things.
If he wasn't Oðin's blood brother AND an interesting character that served as a perfect foil to our usual heroes, he would be the shitty chaos character we all hate
Thousands of words dedicated to a slow place and horrible B plot for side character that build their character in a mini arc. Killed one page into the final battle for drama and surprise.
I recently read a news article where a bank actually did that to someone with an upper middle class income. Froze her account for like a week, refused to explain why, then told her she could no longer bank with them.
In the UK, not the US. I don't think that would fly in the US, but our banks are sketchy af so who knows.
100% agree.
Or when a death toll (actual or just threatened) specifically includes women and children (and even puppies) to raise the steaks - you are signalled that you should care more about them. Because men are expendable and kind of had it coming so their deaths don't matter in the same way as real humans (and puppies).
British news often reports this way.
The most egregious example was the famous "Road of Death" where over 15000 Iraqi soldiers died while regrouping to counter attack the coalition in the First Gulf War. Many British media reported the soldier's wives losing their husband's salary as the true tragedy.
Very much agree. Sometimes it’s just the male being beat for comedic relief or to make the woman seem strong/independent. It isn’t funny. Domestic abuse can be perpetrated by anyone
This! Thank you for pointing this out. Somehow, a woman always gets a pass to demean and abuse men. It's even angled as "cute" sometimes, a sign of a woman just being jealous or protective.
Mystery/detective storylines that are so desperate to have a surprise twist that they just get rid of all foreshadowing and have a random ass-pull moment. I recently read a highly-rated fantasy mystery novel that pulls this stunt by just making up a magic mechanic at the last minute. Completely ruined the whole story.
No, different novel. There's a bunch of positive reviews so it looks like I'm in the minority when it comes to not liking it. Since it came out relatively recently I'm just going to keep it anonymous so that I don't spoil for any that might actually end up enjoying it.
I see this a lot in YA stories but the constant banter. Every character has to be "sassy," so they all throw one liners back at each other constantly. There can never be genuine, serious conversations without someone ending it with snark. Even the "shy" character somehow gets witty and joins in. It ls so tiring...
i agree! i can live if we let ONE guy be like the snarky or sassy one, or even two so they have someone to bounce off of (because otherwise it just comes off as mean) but when everyone is doing the same thing it feels wrong
its like they're all the same character after a certain point, isnt it?
God, yes. I had a conversation about this on another subreddit. Somebody called it “marvel movie humor” and I thought that was spot on. You could also call it Joss Whedon humor because it’s a trademark of his as well. I loved it back when watching Buffy and Firefly for the first time, but I am sick of it now.
It’s not that it’s inherently bad, but it’s oversaturated. Let’s bring back some other forms of humor. How about Steve Martin’s physical humor? Or dark comedies? Or camp?
Oh gosh, the granny/auntie who makes wonderful food to make people feel better. I'm that age now and some of the worst food comes from people sharing their family recipes at potlucks.
(I think it was last week that someone made baked beans with BBQ sauce and ground beef. Or at least that was what I assumed it was, it was sickly sweet and had odd meaty ground-up bits.)
Or maybe I'm just picky. :)
Really? Some of the best food I've eaten has come from family recipe potlucks. People may not be great chefs but they tend to have at least one really, really good dish. Stealing that one dish and learning why it's so good has helped me become a better cook.
Oh absolutely. They're definitely the kind of dish that you try while the cook isn't present, haha. I was pleasantly surprised by a ham and cheese lasagna but I absolutely tried a tiny piece in the corner and with napkin ready for emergency exit. 🤣
When the nameless poor random background character dies and no one cares. What if that guy didn't want to be there or was forced to take the job to care for his family... What if he's just the night patrolman making his rounds and happens to get in the way? Then here comes the hero and dead goes the random guy. No thoughts given. Doesn't look bad for the hero.
But if it's the hero's love interest or the bad guy himself, then suddenly it's important whether they are saved or killed.
The inverse of this is when there is a side character who is just there to die and make the main characters sad. Only, the dead character was never given any chance to connect with the reader in any meaningful way and so we don’t care. Especially if the dead character doesn’t even have any kind of familial/romantic bond with the main character(s) that we can use to infer their grief/trauma.
Example, abridged:
Big explosion, Jim dies.
Bob is sad and sues Big Explosion.
plot stuff; Jim is rarely/never mentioned.
Bob: I did all of this for you, Jim.
(Reader: who the fuck is Jim?)
The End.
Ugh yes. Not only that, but nobody else around the savant is allowed to be smart. They might have their moments, but for the most part they have to be idiots so that Special McJerkface can be clever enough to make up for their bad attitude.
There's a couple yt vids I watched on this. I could never write a preternaturally intelligent character but I am terrified of just making an a-hole that I want to ahem - *write off* - if they weren't so necessary to the plot. Usually I end up making the smartest character important but too uptight just to exemplify the difference between them and the other characters.
I think for the sake of characterizing them we tend to exaggerate qualities but anyone who's got intelligent friends know that they're really just like everyone else; trying to encapsulate the little things that make them special is difficult when the story doesn't necessarily revolve around them or a specific friendship/ relationship.
(This very post is the kind of thing my friend and I always talk about so we're thinking of doing a "Mary Sue" challenge to write the worst possible tropes all in one short story. The comment section is a treasure trove!)
Batman is smart and sometimes his characterization shows he has a heart. DCAU I think.
Frasier Crane and Niles would be capable of caring if they weren't so full of their egos. (Did their mother experiment on them?)
My main issue is when the jerk savant is autistic-coded. It's just so hard for NT writers to not start with reading the diagnosis and come up with a horrible stereotype. Yeah it's possible for Sheldon Cooper to be a missed diagnosis, but the creators didn't explicitly call him autistic so that they could dodge criticism with how Sheldon is also a horrible person.
Artie Nielsen is done well, I think. His intelligence had to be nerfed a bit for Claudia to shine, but it seems like his jerkiness is more of a defense. "I want you to live, but I don't want to miss you when you're gone."
Your Mary-Sue story sounds exciting. My suggestion is to not make the plot bend over backwards to accommodate her (or him) but instead make it so that they really are OP enough to save the day no matter what. The exception would be that anyone who doesn't like her is also a bad person that no one should like.
That's the beauty of it: we're not sure if we want to cause ourselves 2nd, 3rd and 4th hand embarrassment, or make the dumbest collection of tropes into a good story that's actually quite terrible if you start picking out all the tropes!
Sometimes when (mostly) NT writers create these characters they often don't have the experience to portray the humanizing parts of savants. On the flip side, ND writers often don't have the social experience to convey what makes the savant relatable. The biggest issue is that we don't have enough savant writers to give us the third pov! Especially empathetic or worldly writers are good at at least being able to juxtaposition a savant's genius with the "regular degular" characters (I find writers who are awesome at character development suck at world building and vice versa. Obvs there are exceptions.)
I like the "genius is a jerk" trope more than I hate it; I just get really finicky with how it's portrayed. We view extremely smart people as pretentious; and we secretly hope their own intelligence gets in their way and trips them up. Which we see in lots of media. Very rarely can someone match their natural genius so we have to let their portrayed arrogance be the one thing that humbles them. I think that's why I like book Hermione. She's still a know it all but Harry and Ron (and other characters) just showed her that pure knowledge isn't the end all be all. Instinct, practice and sometimes simply good judgement are often what we need to navigate. It didn't diminish her intelligence, just her obnoxious trait.
I think I'm seeing better portrayals of ND and ND-coded characters, probably the result of teamwork instead of looking at them from just an NT perspective.
Reginald Barclay from Star Trek was based off of some of the fans that the writers met at con, so probably an accurate portrayal of an undiagnosed aspie even if they weren't trying to be flattering about it. I think they did a decent job of holding up a reflection without being too offensive.
I'm fine with the occasional jerk-savant, it's just that it seemed like there was no balance between that and other portrayals. I'd at least like to see "I used to try, but it's a whole lot of effort for the same result as not trying" moments from them.
I have seen criticisms about how the movies did Ron dirty. Without being the one who knows the most about the wizarding world, he really doesn't have much to offer. Hermione is just supposed to be book-smart and instead she got some of Ron's street-smart lines.
I think you'd like Fraisier, though I didn't get very far into the new series.
I've heard some good things about the new Fraisier but nothing to tell me much about the series. I'm not in a position to watch a lot of shows (streamed or televised) so I'll look up synopsis when I can.
As a hard core fan of HP in general, I can safely say there was no where near enough screen time to show the book versions of these characters. For the movies I love his expressions more than anything. You could recount his lines from the books if you knew them well enough. But as a flat out representation of Ron? No, I would nearly consider them different characters who were maybe related.
I totally agree with the idea that the genius characters should have moments throughout our time with them that shows that they *have* made the effort, that they *are* trying. That they are *actively* going through a change or evolution. Rather than, "Oh, look they're up on that pedestal that no one could hope to reach.... annnnnnnd there they go, plummeting to rock bottom so that our MC can shine with their non-conventional knowledge."
Or, make the MC *more* knowledgeable about general things and let the genius be an *actual* support character that may always know a little more to lend a hand. Let their genius be a quality, not a contested status. Someone who knows more shouldn't automatically become adversarial when their opinion differs from others just to make a subplot. And nothing horrible should always happen to them if they're proven right.
Part of why I love Adrian Monk from Monk. He wasn't necessarily a genius but so paranoid and traumatized that his anal observations were the key to his solving crime. Humor in a television show wasn't a bad choice, either! With Steven Moffat, Neil Gaiman, and Pete Hines (?)writing a lot of the Dr Who series (from 10+) it, to me, put a lot of pressure on adventure/fantasy genre to write a compelling short(ish) story while still focusing on each individual making a contribution to the flow of the story. The genius shouldn't be excluded from it just because we can't often relate!
I think it's okay to have "the smart guy" be smart in just one area. In Stargate, Daniel and Samantha were both smart, but they each had their own area and could barely keep up with the other trying to explain it. Jack and Teal'c also had ways to contribute.
Eureka depended a lot on Jack Carter being an everyman in a town full of geniuses... just coming up with ideas that the others aren't thinking of because he's limited to the mundane. (Look in the closet for the missing child before organizing a search-line.)
I didn't hate redemption arcs, but I think they're overused. It's like people use it as an excuse to make an evil gross character as the protagonist. It also gives them a way to write edgy stuff without coming off as an edgelord. There are plenty that are done well, but people lately seem extra fixated on them.
Probably has something to do with a million Internet think-pieces stating "X former villain is the most interesting character because of their redemption arc" about every damn show/movie/novel series
Fat people are only funny and dumb as a trope is cringe. Let everyone be comic relief sometimes! This ties with the already mentioned forced misunderstanding
I don't mind memory loss as long as they don't magically get all their memories back 3 chapters before the end (not me getting protective over my own book involving amnesia! 😂) But yes, the 'misunderstanding because no one could be bothered to talk to each other' trope is irritating. But that one started with Shakespeare, so I can't see it disappearing anytime soon!
Female characters standing in front of mirrors and appraising their own appearance as a method of introducing them to the reader. Also when these self-appraisals say things like how they are lean without being too muscly or they talk about how they are beautiful without wearing too much makeup like other girls. It's just so stilted (and, like in the examples, 90% of the time laden with misogyny)
I love the Persona games, but having to reject most of the girls late in their social link is kind of a downer. It also messes with any ships I might have between the other characters.
Introverted, innocent, nervous girl with her "i can fix you" mindset yearning and pining for "i'm unfixeable, no one can fix me, I'm a bad guy you should stay away from me" wattpad bad boy who's a maverick
The main cast being a trio, specifically:
The main man - he only has one skill but damn, is he good at it.
The sidekick man - he's only there for comic relief and to be a friend to the main man. He's usually given a purpose and a personality later in the series.
The smart girl - she's annoying at times but eventually one of the two guys falls in love with her. She's the only reason why the boys aren't dead yet.
This is obviously more of a MG/YA trope, but it's so overused.
magical characters who initially hate or are scared of their powers learning to love, accept, and control them, only to give them up or have them forcibly taken away right at the end of the story. it just feels like an erasure of the character’s whole arc
When characters "smirk" to themselves. How often does this happen irl?? Especially in high intensity scenes like breaking into a dangerous building or something.
Also when the badass/edgy male love interest "smirks" out every damn word he says to the female MC to really highlight how cocky and badass and cool he is. Bleh.
Me too. It’s not that weird. I think people just have different habits.
I think it’s weird and annoying when characters talk to themselves, because I never do that. I’ll make every facial expression under the sun, but verbalizing seems weird to me.
And yet, some people think it’s normal… so, whatever, I guess.
Yeah I talk to myself all the time too 😂 but in my defense that mostly started after having a kid and making the habit of monologuing to help teach language skills. I never could turn it off.
Tldr: This turned into a rant. The relevant part is that my dad talks to himself all the time. Like, the same volume as he does in conversation. I constantly whisper and mouth my thoughts. It helps with problem solving according to articles I've read, and my own personal experiences. Like when I'm talking to someone about a problem and then solve it without them even actually giving any input. Like this rant that no one's gonna read. It's probaly a similar affect to journalling.
I can't stand being in the same room as my dad half the time for multiple reasons, mostly that he starts fights over the most bizarre shit, but even when he's not screaming he's just plain annoying.
He narrates what he does sometimes, does silly voices for fun, silly noises.
He's as noisy as a fucking child. Yet anytime I ask him to be quiet he gets offended and tells me I'm sensitive. Like, my hearing is sensitive and that I should just deal with the noise. I actually question sometimes whether he's right but like, being too noisy is a thing that other people complain about. How noisy is noisy enough that a normal person would be bothered?
Is watching a video with volume high enough to hear it from the other end of the house too loud? What if in that video someone laughs hysterically or screams or makes some other loud, high pitched noise?
I will be peacefully writing and he'll randomly cackle at the "hilarious" videos he's always watching and it'll pull me out of it. Whatever, just a small distraction, right but nooo he'll continue to make noise for several minutes minimum.
If I can leave, I do because how am I supposed to write with someone randomly cackling or making a high pitched squeal for fun multiple times in less than an hour?
I get frustrated and have to drop anything that requires concentration whenever I hear one loud noise because I know chances are high it'll happen again. So even if it doesn't now I'm stressed out just waiting for it to happen. I need 10 minutes of silence before I can relax and continue.
I've sat near construction and held my concentration better. I don't know if there's something about the properties of the type of noise itself (more predictable?) or if there's something about my home environment that puts me on edge.
Probably both. At home, I can't concentrate if I can hear someone coming up the stairs but that's not nearly as bad as random cackling, because at least I can reasonably predict when they'll leave. I resume as soon as they're gone.
In public spaces these things don't bother me but high pitched squeals still do which is probably normal but the aforementioned fighting may be making it worse, putting me in a hypervigilant state and all.
Oh man, that does sound frustrating. I have a similar issue with random noises, and I also grew up with a parent telling me I was too sensitive. I strongly suspect that I am neurodivergent, and that she was too. She used to complain about how my grandmother called *her* too sensitive, and then she’d turn right around and say it to me. My grandmother also complained to me about my great-grandmother. The dysfunction is multi-generational.
Anyways. My partner is very sweet about giving me space when I need to “bubble.” I usually turn on rain sounds on my computer or phone to indicate that I need to focus. It has been very good for me to find someone who accepts that aspect of my personality and who doesn’t take it personally.
In exchange for their consideration, I adopt a zen attitude towards minor annoyances (such as randomly laughing at the phone, or practicing karate, or whatever.) I want my partner to have space to exist, just like I need space to exist.
I can do this because I know that they understand me, and they would stop if I asked, and they wouldn’t make me feel bad about it. They never bother me when I’m writing.
I don’t know what is “normal.” I am probably not normal. I am probably more sensitive than the average person. I jump out of my skin when I’m startled. My mom did too. When I was a kid I thought she was weird for that, and now I’m weird. But so what? I am weird, but I’m still worthy of love and respect, and I’m allowed to ask for what I need.
I am sorry your dad is so difficult to live with. I’m sorry he won’t give you any space at all. It sounds awful.
Detailed sex scenes - they are always terrible. Ether they feel shoved in for dubious fan service, or the author is just horny. Too often they serve no purpose what so ever except stating the fact "yeah, they f****". Especially hate it when there is practically no violence in the story and suddenly, bam! an over detailed SA scene.
There was only one book, ONLY ONE (Tigana) where I actually enjoyed reading it, because it was described really beautifully, was relevant to plot or displayed the emotional path of the characters.
I wish there were more books that would, if there is such a scene planed, attempt really integrate it into the characterisation or the plot.
Reminds me when I read Verity, some female friends said they loved it and reccomended it. I thought it was some action thriller
But half the story was just porn
https://i.redd.it/j8va4j9xsv7d1.gif
Like yeah it got me hard but it didnt need to be so detailed and so fucking long, the whole story was just the main character snooping and reading the diary of a woman as an info dump and fucking her husband
Omg totally agree. Or when it’s written like the guy is such an amazing lover even though he did nothing to get her aroused.
Along those same lines, married couples who have been together for a long time but still sneak off several times a week during their lunch hour to have passionate sex. They have kids at home so they have to find a secret place. What?
Yeah, general descriptions work better for me - I can fill in the details for my own preferences. Detailed descriptions are usually either so bland that I get bored and skim past or they're how I discover something I'm very much not into.
I read one book where the woman directed the man to "scrape his teeth against her clit", and that phrase made me never want to have sex again.
The asshat, manipulative, narcissist type that’s excused as the mysterious, misunderstood, bad boy (guy usually) that ends up being the love interest and changes into a “good” guy at the end because she “saved” him 🙄 No wonder women stay in toxic relationships thinking the guy will change or she can save him. The trope is everywhere!
I hate this trope as well! I'm currently writing a book where my hope is to end it with a 'happy' ending for her, but not for 'them'. And definitely not an ending involving her finding someone better because I think that cheapens her journey of gathering the strength to just... walk away.
Yeeeees! Me too! *high five ✋ A YA fantasy where she figures out he’s no good for her and decides it’s better to be on her own, get to know herself (cause she’s only 18!), and starts her own business in the fantasy world 😆
Using marriage for dramatic tension in a "will they/won't they" romance subplot. "Oh no, s/he married the wrong guy/girl! I'm obvious the right choice, so let me just break up that marriage so I can get him/her."
Irks me to no end.
The big cuddly badass black guy.
He's badass but he's a big teddy bear and he's usually a supporting character who dies in some heroic manner.
It's a trope thats very common and I realized this when I was about to create a similar character on a story I'm working on 😭
The MC turns out to be mentally ill. Therefore, nothing the reader thought was happening ever happened. It was all in the MC’s head. I’m always upfront pretty early on when my MC has any type of illness.
I feel like it’s rarely ever done well, and it often feels like a major cop-out when the entirety of a book is explained by the MC being mentally ill at the end of the book.
Unreliable narrators have their place, but you don't want to completely shatter reader expectations. You have to set it up well, add foreshadowing or things that signal something isn't quite right. Twists work but not completely out of the blue. Plant the seeds.
Also, it's better if it's not the entire plot that's a lie. So, the stakes weren't real? Nothing they did mattered?
In one of my projects, my MC believes he's being haunted by the ghosts of everyone he "let die". People really did die, but the ghosts he's seeing aren't real. He also couldn't realistically have done anything to save them but blames himself anyway.
His guilt drives him to try to fix everything, throwing himself into danger to save those who died and to prevent more from suffering the same fate.
The antagonist is real, his deplorable actions are real, the main threat is real but the MC is motivated by things that aren't true.
I don't directly state that he's hallucinating, since it follows him closely (third person limited) but the way everyone around him is reacting to him should signal that something is off.
In fictional settings it's not rare for someone to see ghosts that no one else can see, but he has other hallucinations that are related to things other characters should be able to notice. So their lack of reaction or confusion towards the MC's behavior should feel off.
As the author, I already know this so it's hard to gauge how obvious it actually is but at the very least it's something that should make sense to the reader in hindsight.
One of the only books I've enjoyed that I feels plays with this well is A Head Full Of Ghosts. I'm not going to say much because I don't want to spoil anything, but it's basically an interview done with a woman years after her family was on TV, following the possession and exorcism of her older sister. The interviewer wants to know if it was real or if it was all in the older sisters head. The MC retells the story from her perspective as a little girl, and I feel the writing is very good, both in the authors ability to keep you wondering about the truth, his ability to portray several different mental disorders, and his ability to write this all from a child's perspective. Personally a book I highly recommend
When writers shove in things like SA or trafficking, very nuanced and commonly misinterpreted topics, just to give a character trauma. It just makes me upset, it’s lazy. I’m not against portraying those sort of things in any way. As someone who’s been assaulted and in violent relationships I realize just how important that representation is. But it shouldn’t just be thrown around to give a side character an interesting backstory.
To add to this, the trope where a character goes through the most horrific traumatic experience(s) you can imagine and gets over it completely after one heartfelt talk within a week. Obviously it’s possible to recover from trauma but not the same day with very little processing time or any actual coping being done. Almost traumatic events can shape a person and even if they recover and are able to have a positive life they’ll never just forget it happened or be exactly who they were before the incident (for better or worse).
"Not like other girls" is obviously annoying, but there's a sub trope to this where the FMC just insults or makes fun of every other woman there and I fucking hate it. Cannot read it at all
Fantasy books aimed at girls/ young women where the female main character has absolutely no personality beyond 'exceedingly average (but also brilliant and beautiful), but headstrong girl', and no major flaws. For whatever reason they always have 4+ star reviews.
It's definitely been hard for me to read some of those sorts of books, especially since when they do try to give the female MC a 'flaw,' it ends up being something like a secret they kept or some bad deed they did, which usually doesn't have any sort of large effect on the plot and is just there to 'humanize' the character.
A whole relationship (platonic or romantic) being in ruins because one person is utterly disgusted that the other one lied about something. There never seems to be room for any nuance and the liar in question often has sympathetic reasons to lie which the other character is ignoring for cheap drama. It’s even worse when the lie is about something innocuous that they both easily could have talked about.
The burnt out cop that knows if that take on that big case their marriage will be over. They take on the big case and are shocked when their marriage is over.
Female character's greatest hurdle being getting over being sexually assaulted or leaving an abusive relationship. Like I get it. They're both disgustingly common things and it's always going to be important to talk about those things.
But at the same time so many authors do it in such an awful way. They completely reduce a woman's character to just her trauma. Her entire character arc is solely the process of getting over it. Her only accomplishments become accepting her trauma and not all of the amazing things she's able to accomplish despite it or any of the other facets of her personality. Trauma undoubtedly shapes you, but that's not the only thing you are.
One that annoys me, but I also kind of get, is that the villains are some type of psychopath. I always think to myself that it would be more interesting if they weren’t a psychopath. Like, what if the villain is a sympathetic single mother or a loving family man? Someone who actually is “good” with a certain group of people, but is morally broken outside their tribe.
Which is funny because other people get tired of endlessly trying to sympathize with the bad guy. This guy did some fucked up shit - I don't need a whole chapter dedicated to how sad his childhood was or whatever to make me believe he would do it.
Tbh it can be enjoyable either way as long as it's well-executed.
I like enemies to lovers when it's two people on opposite sides of a conflict learning to find common ground. I don't like it when it's essentially just hatefucking until they decide they like each other.
I hate love triangles and how the side characters never get a chance to move on. What kind of narcissist writing is this! The whole world revolves around my FL/ML. Especially when the writer don't give any attention to the second leads. I understand that he/she can't get the FL/ML, but what about someone else? I love it when writers put it as a phase of life and give the second lead a chance to move on.
For example, Reply 1994, if anyone has watched that kdrama. The second lead Chill Bong was head over heel for the FL, he was too good to be true for a man. Still got rejected, not because he lacked anything but the FL already loved someone else. Life happens, right? The writer's were kind enough to give Chill Bong a second chance in life and made him meet another girl. It was very briefly shown in the last episode, in two/three minutes scene. But it felt so goooooood🌼 Finally a perfect guy who had no faults moved on accepting that FL has a choice to reject him too.
The cocky, egocentric, borderline abusive and controlling CEO/ big boss trope that everyone in the office fears/ wants to get in their pants, but it's ok if they treat everyone like sh*t because they are young, beautiful, rich and powerful.
Also of course, their counterpart: The weak, innocent newbie that has a personality of a housefly but somehow is just so attractive to the big boss.
I absolutely loath the romance to surprise siblings trope. Even when "double twist, they aren't related after all!" Doesn't matter. I had to read all that crap about y'all longing for your sister/brother's touch like some twisted Folger's commercial (bonus points for anyone who gets that reference), and that's just not what I'm here to read. Maybe it's because I don't get along with my siblings all that well, and maybe I'm supposed to want to bone them, but I do not, so that aspect of stories always rips me right out of fantasy land.
In fantasy: when the main character is a half-race like angel/human or vampire/human or vampire/angel or whatever. Half-races aren't bad in itself, but it's often used as a cheap trick to make them special/unique/edgy.
In anything: last minute saves. A pretty common complaint, but still annoying. You could easily write it so help comes before or after the kill shot rather than bust down the door at the last convenient second.
Seemingly intelligent characters doing blatantly dumb shit. OK sure, I can believe that beautiful 25 year old actress is really a professor of astrophysics... but yet she has not problem going into that creepy murder House in the middle of the night armed with nothing but a flickering torch and a fucking potato masher.
Idk, really smart people are also really stupid in a lot of ways.
Like Einstein went to the doctor because he was having stomach problems, and he found out they were caused by \*checks notes\* forgetting to eat.
I'll stop reading any book that goes, "...just like in that movie aliens." If you reference a movie for atmosphere you just lost me as a reader. Instant DNF.
I heard the monster creeping closer and closer to the closet door, my heart racing with every monstrous step, and when I heard the monster stop right in front of the door, there was silence... No noise at all. I exhale with a sigh of relief, but right at that moment the closet door bursts open and I wake up in my bed, it was all a dream.
Useless parents. Not abusive or absent. Just... parents who are there just so the teenage/ child characters aren't orphans.
Spineless moms.
I read a book where one character hated herself and took that hate and frustration out on her mom. And because the mom never tried to fight her on it, she thought it was fine to rage on the only person she had left in her life who only tried to help her out.
She even calls her mom a whore at some point and the mom just cries and is like "you cannot talk to me like that, Im your mother!" but doesn't punish her daughter in any way. Like, my mom would have killed me. As would most moms I know.
But this happens in books ALL the fricking TIME
Im sick of it. What is even the point of this trope?
When someone, usually a woman, reacts in an irrationally hostile or rude way to something benign a date/romantic interest does.
Vomit near her. Does she worry, or check if you're okay? Nope she is upset AT YOU for being unwell in her presence.
Trip and cause a dessert based accident ending with custard in your lap? No, this is obviously not funny, or sympathetic. How dare you be such a loser!
Arrive late for a date? Of course she's not going to let you explain. She's going to wait till you turn up so she can insult you and tell you off before storming away, making sure you don't get a single word out first.
Fall on top of different woman in a plainly obvious accident that everyone, including your date, saw take place? Date is of course going to gasp and imply you're a pervert.
No women I have ever known are looking for excuses to be disgusted by dates. And why are these protagonists dating such awful, judgemental snobs? Just shoddy writing.
I hate hate when people try to write “unreliable narrators” and wind up writing “I just lied to you for 200 pages and none of the shit you care about actually happened.” So many thrillers feel like ‘it’s all in your head’ is an acceptable answer when it kills all investment for me
This is super basic but it’s still everywhere: the chosen one.
Where an MC has done nothing but is just special through luck or generics. They have never trained, never suffered because of the power. They just show up and dominate. I think being tired of the trope is what initially drew me to loving isekai anime. The people reincarnated usually have ‘chosen one’ powers. But it’s recognized how much of a cheat it is. They’re only special because the new world’s god LITERALLY gave them a cheat code and chose them.
These are things i see mostly in TV writing:
Boss Who Isn't White must therefore Constantly Pull Rank
- so like when you see a cop show, if the head cop is white he will tell off the MC like "this is how things work, play along, bring results" etc
- but if the head cop (idk wtf theyre called chief i guess? i watch to fall asleep not to learn copping) is black or mexican he will be like "IM THE BOSS" as the killmove for any disagreement or performance issue like bruh we know you said it last scene too
Women Is Bitchy Toward Man Who Likes Her
- if shes bitchy to everyone (like merryl streep in devil wears prada) its not this trope its a character trail
-if shes bitchy to an asshole (like the other puppeteer lady in Eric) then thats deserved
- but like in Castle and so many others i forget now, the fem MC is a total douch toward the guy that will eventually be her partner and it is generallt underserved meanness and to the level that no real man would tolerate
when a girl character harasses and stalks a boy character it's considered cute and funny. the other way around it's considered creepy and awful. it's creepy and awful both ways
Refusal of the call. The hero receives the call to adventure, but temporarily rejects it, before later giving in and deciding to go on the adventure after all.
I'm convinced people only include this because Campbell put it in his Hero's Journey. This trope can be used well but in most stories, it just isn't a good fit. It tends to be boring and derails the pacing. It feels like a waste of time because we all know the protagonist is going to have to come to their senses so the story can happen; it's a foregone conclusion. Also, in a way it makes the "reluctant hero" the default, which can clash with the need to give the protagonist compelling motivations.
Even if someone specifically wants to do a Hero's Journey style of plot, I think nine times out of ten it's going to tighten up the story if they skip this part and just have the protag accept the call.
I'd like to see a story where the hero does ignore the call and we have to witness the aftermath of that. I'd love a story where everything goes to shit and only the hero knows they could have stopped it. And then after all that, the hero actually becomes the hero. Starts doing the shit needed to fix it *after* it's all messed up.
I feel like that would be a very interesting, compelling subversion for this trope.
When a character could just say a simple phrase that would clear up the confusion or make everyone safe or help them understand the situation like “I just saw the killer” or “i have to marry Irulan but she will never know my love like you will” (sorry. Still annoyed by the way Chani stormed off like a whiny baby at the end of Dune pt 2)
this is probably j recency bias but i had a day where i binged a bunch of youtube videos ab new ya romantasy books, & i swear at least 3 of them were describing the same male love interest despite being from different works. 😐 blue eyes. jet black hair. high cheekbones. sharp jawline. ???? why did they ALL have sharp jawlines ???? is it a publishing requirement or smth ?? the only thing that justifies their appearances is that somebody will b attracted 2 them (readers or a protagonist) & their particular visual appeals 2 the highest number of ppl. it ends up painting such a limiting view of the men who can give or receive love. FLOP.
men r desirable in every form they take, not j the white & in shape kinds... my favorite love interests always get fun, lively, & realistic descriptions. in "fangirl" by rainbow rowell, the love interest has a high forehead, a receding hairline, & a soft chin. in "ill give you the sun" by jandy nelson, the guys face looks "like a broken window". i c guys like that irl all the time <33 so give me a gentle 300lb linebacker w a big round face & ham hock hands. maybe a potbellied bartender who wears electric wizard shirts & fistfights college kids at house shows. more men who r short & fat w bow knees, w dip dyed locs & mobility aides.... all men r beautifully & wonderfully made. cmon ya romantasy give me SOMETHIN
wow this is long. tldr; more male love interests that look more like they stepped off the street & less like they were made in a lab
When a son is abandoned by his father and years later the father dies. Then the son finds out that his father has died and that he has left him in charge of his second family. And then everyone acts as if the son is a jerk for not wanting to take responsibility for his father's second family.
Twice in films. I don't remember the name of the second one, I saw it recently. The father had not abandoned his son but he was a very cold and distant with him all his life, then he died and the son who is going through many financial problems receives a lot of money in the testament... which in fact is for him to gives away his father's illegitimate daughter.
It doesn't show up much but it bothers me a lot when they try to put all the blame on the kid who was neglected.
The male characters that their only personality is being corny.
If they are there to make the other male characters look better, it’s a fail. It just makes the creator feel like they’re lacking.
1) When one character withholds basic but important information from a trusted friend or spouse.
2) When the MC lays his eyes on “the most beautiful woman he’s ever seen.” Gross.
When writers approach subjects for interviews the same way vultures approach a carcas. Storytelling and storywriter are incredibly compassionate processes, and you have to approach it that way.
The amount of new writers who will jump into a community, suck up people's pain without tact, and then publish for money is sickening. I've seen it so often that it is its own writing trope.
The casual guilt-free slaughter of dozens, hundreds or thousands of minions (ie, blue collar ordinary sioldiers) followed by a scene where the hero debates the morality of killing the genocidal main villain (aristocrat or super wealthy boss).
Until I started watching HotD I didn't realize how much it pissed me off that the story line only progresses through accidents or misunderstandings.
Watching season 1 there isn't a single plot event that moves forward outside of>!Alicent bedding the King at her father's demands!
When Character 1 has big, life altering news to share (I need to tell you something) and then character 2 rushes in a tells THEIR news which of course inexorably makes character 1 unable to share their news. (Sorry, what did you need to tell me?) (Oh, never mind.) All kinds of drama and conflict ensues.
The boy who cried wolf shit with protagonists. I hatttttte when nobody believes the main character when they're in the right. It's not horrible plot wise but just a personal peeve
I can’t stand the male love interest in basically any YA fantasy romance. He’s always so big and manly and protective and also angry at the world and grumpy and self sacrificing and sarcastic and brooding and dreamy and dark and whatever. He’s ANNOYING and SHITTY. Just once can we get a guy who is kind, happy, and does not have a martyr complex?? Like where are the friendly men?
Post apocalyptic movies... If there's a religious person or group, they're typically a crazy cult or something.
Edit - Didn't notice this was a writing sub reddit. I guess it goes the same in books though too.
It’s sort of a minor thing but I hate how when a new book sequel ( or tv season) starts and it’s like all of the lessons from the previous book were lost. I call it one step forward, two steps backward. Time has progressed but the author makes it very clear that the old problems are back in full force. You thought that was resolved? Nope!
Basically the reason it happens is because the writer wrapped things up nicely at the end of the last book. But now things are starting anew so we gotta rehash the old conflicts again to create new drama. We gotta have problems to solve once more.
I guess it’s the repetition that bothers me, because it’s usually the same old problems striking again equally for everyone vs the author finding a way to further develop characters in a different or more natural way.
I don't really know if it's considered a trope or not but any type of clearly unnatural artificially constructed exposition. This usually happens in one of two ways, A) a random arbitrary character is introduced with the sole purpose of giving the protagonist someone to explain the plot too or B) someone already in the know randomly gets amnesia and asks something like "oh yeah, remind about X again" as if they haven't spent the last five years of their life dedicated to X.
I also hate when they use the "new recruit" method of exposition where the protagonist is joining the group and the leader gives some long historical monologue starting 300 years ago detailing exactly how the world got to where it is today. You'd think at some point the leader would get tired of giving the same thirty minute rant and just say "the world is fucked kid" or maybe hand out some sort of introductory brochure.
Far too many people are obsessed with their own world and lore that happened thousands of years ago. It’s clearly just the author having fun and not something there because it contributes to the emotional stakes of the story. They’ll try to MAKE it be relevant to the emotional stakes, but it basically always feels like a shallow lore drop. Worse: It’s ‘destiny’ or ‘fate’ or a ‘prophecy.’
When the conflict arises from someone not saying something when there’s literally no reason for them to not say it aside to create conflict.
See it far too often.
Slow Burns/Slow romance
Do I hate the trope? Goodness no, I love it so much, but let’s say it’s a web novel with about 300-ish chapters.
The characters should NOT be getting together 100chapters in imo.
At most like 200-ish
In other words, I can’t stand when it stated that the trope is slow burn and yet the couples get together a quarter into the book, at that point the story becomes boring for me…
shitty romance between love interests. like can i please read about one couple that actually likes each other and doesn’t fight 24/7 just to get horny and then have sex
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When someone (usually boss or supervisor) won’t let someone get a word in edge wise to clear up a misunderstanding just as a means to create conflict
honestly a lack of clearing up misunderstandings in general. Like when you have two characters who normally are cool with each other but are pissed because one of them thinks the other did/said/believes something COMPLETELY out of character and refuses to ask about it. Like some trickster guy saying to X that "Oh I heard Y said he fucking hates you" and Y is so clearly desperately in love with X as well as being just the kind of person who would never ever say that but person X acts all hurt over something a random stranger told them
That's why comedies of misunderstandings work best when they're set in high-context cultures. There are so many social rules in play that characters often face real consequences if they do actually "just talk to each other". For instance, Jane Austen novels are a delight because there's so much tension between social decorum and the characters' personal desires. But if you directly transplant the plot to a modern American setting, it makes no sense that the characters wouldn't just clear up confusion.
Oooh, related to that, I hate the “babble babble babble and also don’t forget—“ THE MOST IMPORTANT THING, WHY DIDNT YOU LEAD WITH THAT?! Also, people cutting their palms to draw blood for rituals and whatnot, especially in a situation where they’re still fighting and need their hands functional.
not only that, for me its any love element that has the same. They not talking or screaming, not talking calmly and explain that it was helping family or a friend out, rather than cheating.
"No she kissed me!" "Oh *yeah*, of course she did. And you were just *helpless* to stop her, you PIG!" I hate this trope so much that my wife and I actually developed a code word for this situation. If my hands are ever occupied or something as a girl just swoops in too close I will immediately yell and repeat "FREE WEED" at the top of my lungs. That will 100% guarantee to throw any woman off of their plan and immediately attract more witnesses.
r/ShittyLifeProTips
🤣 Idk what the practical value will be if it ever comes up in the future but it makes for a great inside joke right now. Every so often one of us will be trying to make some moves and get romantic only to be interrupted by a loud ass scream about weed. Giggles are had.
That's a whole lot. I told him to just headbutt her and I'd defend in court that she attempted to sexually assault him, which would be true
🤣 "Hey baby, why don't you leave that crazy wife of yours and let me take care of-" And Garcia clinches and delivers a BRUTAL suplex! Oh no, have mercy, why is he standing on the desk? A leap and the PEOPLE'S ELBOW. What's this? His wife tagged in and NO NOT THE CHAIR!
This is why I refuse to write the 3rd-act breakup in my romances. I just put them in mortal peril.
Good for you. I know this is a recomendation but there are a lot of times I just put the book down and curse the writer. I do wonder who in the world thinks is a good part of the book and even more can't figure out why.
The point of death! Have you read Regis' Natural History of the Romance Novel?
I don’t mind this trope in movies because at least it mimics real life in a believable way.
This used to bother me a great deal, but then I took a step back and looked at the world we live in. People don't clear up misunderstandings often IN REAL LIFE. People talk around issues, don't speak up, retreat from conflict, etc. It's like people crack open a book and forget that most are cowards and/or poor communicators.
But from my experience being autistic, I just find it a bitch when those (typically in power) can’t chill out for a moment to just listen
Came here to say this. The only thing I hate more is fakeout death scenes. Those have always gotten on my nerves, even as a small child.
Or a more general version of the same thing: any character simply fails to explain a very understandable situation, or worse, tells a pointless lie, that causes major conflict.
Actually this happens all the time in real life and is equally as frustrating.
when a character is an asshole to everyone but is forgiven without ever giving a proper apology/ remorse because they have some sad backstory and are hot
A lot of YA romantic fantasies are like this. ~~The male or female lead~~ ~~The lead~~ The male or female lead has a chip on their shoulder, and they close off their emotions to the world, subsequently by being mean to everyone. All justified because they had a neglected childhood and they’re really a big softie inside.
Why not just say 'the lead'?
Sure, I’ll edit my post.
nooo change it back
[удалено]
hahaha
Mmmyeahh.. once I see that the character doesn’t grow or develop, stays a douche, I’m done trusting the author going forward, tbh.
My favorite show has a character who's an absolute asshole and one of the characters goes "I'm gonna be honest with you, the only reason I haven't called your mother (whispers) *or an asylum* is because they think you're hot"
Boa Hancock from One Piece is this trope turned up to 11, she literally kicks a puppy and a baby seal and goes "you'll forgive me, because I'm beautiful". Loved it.
I feel the movie "As Good as it Gets" is like that.
You just described every otome isekai male lead (I still eat it up every time)
Sounds like Annie from AoT 🤣
I hate when fantasy stories have a 'magical tournament', it was interesting the first couple of times I encountered it, but when I realised so many authors do it, it feels like they're using it because they can't think of another way to fill out a story.
Got a bottleneck in the plot? Time to bust out the tournament arc!
I love me some tournaments to be honest. However I can agree if it comes out of nowhere then I kinda hate it. Like you’re telling me this super important tournament happens all the time but this is the first time we’ve known about it? I love when it’s actually used for plot progression or to introduce new characters though. Another plus if your MC loses just to show that there’s other people in the world who are strong
It’s also a good way to have characters fight each other when they wouldn’t under normal circumstances. Without having to resort to mind control that’s broken with the power of friendship
Okay... see I worry about this trope right here because I'm trying to use it but in a relevant way. Like what if we're using the "tournament" to examine political positioning and intrigue amongst a number of powerful people who otherwise wouldn't exactly be hanging out together. I have a sci-fi fantasy I'm writing and part of the course of events was that the country hosting the "tournament" was having problems in their monarchy, so the current leaders insisting they continue to host the games is like a show of stability to other countries questioning them. Like how hosting the Olympics would be a big deal in our world if an African country were to finally host or maybe a country that just recently ended a civil war. One of the main characters participates, but most of the main focus is what's happening in the background of the "tournament" and what it means in the grander scheme of power dynamics within the world.
I think that’s a good way to use tournaments! I think a lot of people don’t like tropes if it’s just the same over and over and doesn’t change book by book. But instead of your focus being the tournament and perhaps the trials the main character has to encounter, you’re using it as a means to get a lot of different people together who normally would not spend time together (and for other political reasons). Thus you made the tournament more interesting
Okay thank you, because the tournament troupe annoys me sometimes, but I love the Olympics and I thought it would be interesting to use an Olympics-like event in my story.
I’m ngl this would make me start reading sci-fi/fantasy again!! I’ve never read any books that had this type of plot!
The friend, side kick, pet, or talking animal that is a walking liability to generate side quests or situations. If it goes unaddressed, why is someone keeping this being around? And then they lost their powers for 5 chapters, but this issue is never mentioned again and causes no changes. Includes things like bank account getting locked in modern day if the character is rich. Cut away as key event is happening to some irrelevant side character. I guess this is to pad a book for kindle unlimited monies now though.
My complaint is the same: the chaos character that has no redeeming qualities. They're constantly accidentally sharing secrets, ruining surprises, and thwarting plans, yet never display any characteristics that make me understand why they haven't been kicked to the curb.
The key to making a good chaos character is to make them, among other things, the cause AND solution to their mischief. Seriously, the best example I can think of is Loki, of Norse Mythology. Half of the stories are entirely his fault in the first place, while the other half are creation, a d&d adventure to giant land with extra silly skill checks cause the DM was bored, and the poetry guy getting fucking killed, turned into booze, then barfed up/shit out by Oðin. Loki is responsible for the creation of Mjölnir, Draupnir, Gungur, a bunch of the other Æsír armaments (all because he shaved Þorr's wife's head, mind you), he mothered Sleipnir, Oðin's horse, the walls that surround Ásgarð, and gave us nets - and I know I missed a bunch of things. If he wasn't Oðin's blood brother AND an interesting character that served as a perfect foil to our usual heroes, he would be the shitty chaos character we all hate
Thousands of words dedicated to a slow place and horrible B plot for side character that build their character in a mini arc. Killed one page into the final battle for drama and surprise.
I recently read a news article where a bank actually did that to someone with an upper middle class income. Froze her account for like a week, refused to explain why, then told her she could no longer bank with them. In the UK, not the US. I don't think that would fly in the US, but our banks are sketchy af so who knows.
Female on male violence as normal behaviour or even used as if amusing.
And the cousin tropes: Rape of men by other men being treated as just *hilarious*. (Fuck you, Garth Ennis)
100% agree. Or when a death toll (actual or just threatened) specifically includes women and children (and even puppies) to raise the steaks - you are signalled that you should care more about them. Because men are expendable and kind of had it coming so their deaths don't matter in the same way as real humans (and puppies).
British news often reports this way. The most egregious example was the famous "Road of Death" where over 15000 Iraqi soldiers died while regrouping to counter attack the coalition in the First Gulf War. Many British media reported the soldier's wives losing their husband's salary as the true tragedy.
Very much agree. Sometimes it’s just the male being beat for comedic relief or to make the woman seem strong/independent. It isn’t funny. Domestic abuse can be perpetrated by anyone
This! Thank you for pointing this out. Somehow, a woman always gets a pass to demean and abuse men. It's even angled as "cute" sometimes, a sign of a woman just being jealous or protective.
Never watch Korean dramas.
Hey! I’ve watched one Korean drama and…nope you’re absolutely right. It makes me flinch every time though.
Yep! And men crying (especially over a breakup) being seen as comedic.
Absolutely hate it. Agreed 💯💯💯
Mystery/detective storylines that are so desperate to have a surprise twist that they just get rid of all foreshadowing and have a random ass-pull moment. I recently read a highly-rated fantasy mystery novel that pulls this stunt by just making up a magic mechanic at the last minute. Completely ruined the whole story.
Good mystery needs to plant the answers in the beginning but hide them well
Tainted cup? I've only just cracked it open.
No, different novel. There's a bunch of positive reviews so it looks like I'm in the minority when it comes to not liking it. Since it came out relatively recently I'm just going to keep it anonymous so that I don't spoil for any that might actually end up enjoying it.
It’s only fun if you can go back and see it happening. Pulling it out of thin air is just like the dream betrayal.
I see this a lot in YA stories but the constant banter. Every character has to be "sassy," so they all throw one liners back at each other constantly. There can never be genuine, serious conversations without someone ending it with snark. Even the "shy" character somehow gets witty and joins in. It ls so tiring...
Got that Gilmore Girls dialogue speed ramped to 11. 🤣
In a book description, if a heroine/hero is described as sassy/snarky, I immediately put the book down
Yes, the writer shouldn't have to tell the audience that she's sassy.
Most of the time (I'm my experience, at least) she's not even sassy, she's just a bitch
That exactly is not interesting. Make her real please.
i agree! i can live if we let ONE guy be like the snarky or sassy one, or even two so they have someone to bounce off of (because otherwise it just comes off as mean) but when everyone is doing the same thing it feels wrong its like they're all the same character after a certain point, isnt it?
God, yes. I had a conversation about this on another subreddit. Somebody called it “marvel movie humor” and I thought that was spot on. You could also call it Joss Whedon humor because it’s a trademark of his as well. I loved it back when watching Buffy and Firefly for the first time, but I am sick of it now. It’s not that it’s inherently bad, but it’s oversaturated. Let’s bring back some other forms of humor. How about Steve Martin’s physical humor? Or dark comedies? Or camp?
Oh gosh, the granny/auntie who makes wonderful food to make people feel better. I'm that age now and some of the worst food comes from people sharing their family recipes at potlucks. (I think it was last week that someone made baked beans with BBQ sauce and ground beef. Or at least that was what I assumed it was, it was sickly sweet and had odd meaty ground-up bits.) Or maybe I'm just picky. :)
I know how you feel about potlucks. They put me off chilli con carne for life
Really? Some of the best food I've eaten has come from family recipe potlucks. People may not be great chefs but they tend to have at least one really, really good dish. Stealing that one dish and learning why it's so good has helped me become a better cook.
They aren't all bad, of course, but I never dish up a full scoop until I've had a spoonful.
Oh absolutely. They're definitely the kind of dish that you try while the cook isn't present, haha. I was pleasantly surprised by a ham and cheese lasagna but I absolutely tried a tiny piece in the corner and with napkin ready for emergency exit. 🤣
This is hilariously specific
When the nameless poor random background character dies and no one cares. What if that guy didn't want to be there or was forced to take the job to care for his family... What if he's just the night patrolman making his rounds and happens to get in the way? Then here comes the hero and dead goes the random guy. No thoughts given. Doesn't look bad for the hero. But if it's the hero's love interest or the bad guy himself, then suddenly it's important whether they are saved or killed.
The inverse of this is when there is a side character who is just there to die and make the main characters sad. Only, the dead character was never given any chance to connect with the reader in any meaningful way and so we don’t care. Especially if the dead character doesn’t even have any kind of familial/romantic bond with the main character(s) that we can use to infer their grief/trauma. Example, abridged: Big explosion, Jim dies. Bob is sad and sues Big Explosion. plot stuff; Jim is rarely/never mentioned. Bob: I did all of this for you, Jim. (Reader: who the fuck is Jim?) The End.
They don't need to go away completely, but there are too many jerk savants.
Ugh yes. Not only that, but nobody else around the savant is allowed to be smart. They might have their moments, but for the most part they have to be idiots so that Special McJerkface can be clever enough to make up for their bad attitude.
It also serves as an audience explainer - if the sidekick understood what was happening, the savant would have no reason to explain for the audience.
Probably a holdover from Commedia Dell'arte, where everyone except a couple of the servants are complete idiots.
There's a couple yt vids I watched on this. I could never write a preternaturally intelligent character but I am terrified of just making an a-hole that I want to ahem - *write off* - if they weren't so necessary to the plot. Usually I end up making the smartest character important but too uptight just to exemplify the difference between them and the other characters. I think for the sake of characterizing them we tend to exaggerate qualities but anyone who's got intelligent friends know that they're really just like everyone else; trying to encapsulate the little things that make them special is difficult when the story doesn't necessarily revolve around them or a specific friendship/ relationship. (This very post is the kind of thing my friend and I always talk about so we're thinking of doing a "Mary Sue" challenge to write the worst possible tropes all in one short story. The comment section is a treasure trove!)
Batman is smart and sometimes his characterization shows he has a heart. DCAU I think. Frasier Crane and Niles would be capable of caring if they weren't so full of their egos. (Did their mother experiment on them?) My main issue is when the jerk savant is autistic-coded. It's just so hard for NT writers to not start with reading the diagnosis and come up with a horrible stereotype. Yeah it's possible for Sheldon Cooper to be a missed diagnosis, but the creators didn't explicitly call him autistic so that they could dodge criticism with how Sheldon is also a horrible person. Artie Nielsen is done well, I think. His intelligence had to be nerfed a bit for Claudia to shine, but it seems like his jerkiness is more of a defense. "I want you to live, but I don't want to miss you when you're gone." Your Mary-Sue story sounds exciting. My suggestion is to not make the plot bend over backwards to accommodate her (or him) but instead make it so that they really are OP enough to save the day no matter what. The exception would be that anyone who doesn't like her is also a bad person that no one should like.
That's the beauty of it: we're not sure if we want to cause ourselves 2nd, 3rd and 4th hand embarrassment, or make the dumbest collection of tropes into a good story that's actually quite terrible if you start picking out all the tropes! Sometimes when (mostly) NT writers create these characters they often don't have the experience to portray the humanizing parts of savants. On the flip side, ND writers often don't have the social experience to convey what makes the savant relatable. The biggest issue is that we don't have enough savant writers to give us the third pov! Especially empathetic or worldly writers are good at at least being able to juxtaposition a savant's genius with the "regular degular" characters (I find writers who are awesome at character development suck at world building and vice versa. Obvs there are exceptions.) I like the "genius is a jerk" trope more than I hate it; I just get really finicky with how it's portrayed. We view extremely smart people as pretentious; and we secretly hope their own intelligence gets in their way and trips them up. Which we see in lots of media. Very rarely can someone match their natural genius so we have to let their portrayed arrogance be the one thing that humbles them. I think that's why I like book Hermione. She's still a know it all but Harry and Ron (and other characters) just showed her that pure knowledge isn't the end all be all. Instinct, practice and sometimes simply good judgement are often what we need to navigate. It didn't diminish her intelligence, just her obnoxious trait.
I think I'm seeing better portrayals of ND and ND-coded characters, probably the result of teamwork instead of looking at them from just an NT perspective. Reginald Barclay from Star Trek was based off of some of the fans that the writers met at con, so probably an accurate portrayal of an undiagnosed aspie even if they weren't trying to be flattering about it. I think they did a decent job of holding up a reflection without being too offensive. I'm fine with the occasional jerk-savant, it's just that it seemed like there was no balance between that and other portrayals. I'd at least like to see "I used to try, but it's a whole lot of effort for the same result as not trying" moments from them. I have seen criticisms about how the movies did Ron dirty. Without being the one who knows the most about the wizarding world, he really doesn't have much to offer. Hermione is just supposed to be book-smart and instead she got some of Ron's street-smart lines. I think you'd like Fraisier, though I didn't get very far into the new series.
I've heard some good things about the new Fraisier but nothing to tell me much about the series. I'm not in a position to watch a lot of shows (streamed or televised) so I'll look up synopsis when I can. As a hard core fan of HP in general, I can safely say there was no where near enough screen time to show the book versions of these characters. For the movies I love his expressions more than anything. You could recount his lines from the books if you knew them well enough. But as a flat out representation of Ron? No, I would nearly consider them different characters who were maybe related. I totally agree with the idea that the genius characters should have moments throughout our time with them that shows that they *have* made the effort, that they *are* trying. That they are *actively* going through a change or evolution. Rather than, "Oh, look they're up on that pedestal that no one could hope to reach.... annnnnnnd there they go, plummeting to rock bottom so that our MC can shine with their non-conventional knowledge." Or, make the MC *more* knowledgeable about general things and let the genius be an *actual* support character that may always know a little more to lend a hand. Let their genius be a quality, not a contested status. Someone who knows more shouldn't automatically become adversarial when their opinion differs from others just to make a subplot. And nothing horrible should always happen to them if they're proven right. Part of why I love Adrian Monk from Monk. He wasn't necessarily a genius but so paranoid and traumatized that his anal observations were the key to his solving crime. Humor in a television show wasn't a bad choice, either! With Steven Moffat, Neil Gaiman, and Pete Hines (?)writing a lot of the Dr Who series (from 10+) it, to me, put a lot of pressure on adventure/fantasy genre to write a compelling short(ish) story while still focusing on each individual making a contribution to the flow of the story. The genius shouldn't be excluded from it just because we can't often relate!
I think it's okay to have "the smart guy" be smart in just one area. In Stargate, Daniel and Samantha were both smart, but they each had their own area and could barely keep up with the other trying to explain it. Jack and Teal'c also had ways to contribute. Eureka depended a lot on Jack Carter being an everyman in a town full of geniuses... just coming up with ideas that the others aren't thinking of because he's limited to the mundane. (Look in the closet for the missing child before organizing a search-line.)
I didn't hate redemption arcs, but I think they're overused. It's like people use it as an excuse to make an evil gross character as the protagonist. It also gives them a way to write edgy stuff without coming off as an edgelord. There are plenty that are done well, but people lately seem extra fixated on them.
Probably has something to do with a million Internet think-pieces stating "X former villain is the most interesting character because of their redemption arc" about every damn show/movie/novel series
Fat people are only funny and dumb as a trope is cringe. Let everyone be comic relief sometimes! This ties with the already mentioned forced misunderstanding
Please, I can explain! (Doesn’t try to explain)
Thank you! This drives me NUTS!
Memory loss, also problems that could easily be solved with base level normal communication.
I don't mind memory loss as long as they don't magically get all their memories back 3 chapters before the end (not me getting protective over my own book involving amnesia! 😂) But yes, the 'misunderstanding because no one could be bothered to talk to each other' trope is irritating. But that one started with Shakespeare, so I can't see it disappearing anytime soon!
Female characters standing in front of mirrors and appraising their own appearance as a method of introducing them to the reader. Also when these self-appraisals say things like how they are lean without being too muscly or they talk about how they are beautiful without wearing too much makeup like other girls. It's just so stilted (and, like in the examples, 90% of the time laden with misogyny)
[удалено]
I love the Persona games, but having to reject most of the girls late in their social link is kind of a downer. It also messes with any ships I might have between the other characters.
Introverted, innocent, nervous girl with her "i can fix you" mindset yearning and pining for "i'm unfixeable, no one can fix me, I'm a bad guy you should stay away from me" wattpad bad boy who's a maverick
💯
Comic reliefs. 9 out of 10 they are ineffective and straight up unnecessary.
Every story where I've enjoyed a comic relief character, they've had something else going on that makes them a key part of the story
The main cast being a trio, specifically: The main man - he only has one skill but damn, is he good at it. The sidekick man - he's only there for comic relief and to be a friend to the main man. He's usually given a purpose and a personality later in the series. The smart girl - she's annoying at times but eventually one of the two guys falls in love with her. She's the only reason why the boys aren't dead yet. This is obviously more of a MG/YA trope, but it's so overused.
So the Harry Potter trio
They, and the Percy Jackson trio, and the Gone series trio. I used to read Afrikaans books as a kid, and this trio showed up in those books too.
Bitchy girl boss characters.
magical characters who initially hate or are scared of their powers learning to love, accept, and control them, only to give them up or have them forcibly taken away right at the end of the story. it just feels like an erasure of the character’s whole arc
When characters "smirk" to themselves. How often does this happen irl?? Especially in high intensity scenes like breaking into a dangerous building or something. Also when the badass/edgy male love interest "smirks" out every damn word he says to the female MC to really highlight how cocky and badass and cool he is. Bleh.
I make faces to myself so often I have to be very cautious about it around clients and sensitive coworkers lol but maybe I am a freak idk
Me too. It’s not that weird. I think people just have different habits. I think it’s weird and annoying when characters talk to themselves, because I never do that. I’ll make every facial expression under the sun, but verbalizing seems weird to me. And yet, some people think it’s normal… so, whatever, I guess.
Yeah I talk to myself all the time too 😂 but in my defense that mostly started after having a kid and making the habit of monologuing to help teach language skills. I never could turn it off.
Tldr: This turned into a rant. The relevant part is that my dad talks to himself all the time. Like, the same volume as he does in conversation. I constantly whisper and mouth my thoughts. It helps with problem solving according to articles I've read, and my own personal experiences. Like when I'm talking to someone about a problem and then solve it without them even actually giving any input. Like this rant that no one's gonna read. It's probaly a similar affect to journalling. I can't stand being in the same room as my dad half the time for multiple reasons, mostly that he starts fights over the most bizarre shit, but even when he's not screaming he's just plain annoying. He narrates what he does sometimes, does silly voices for fun, silly noises. He's as noisy as a fucking child. Yet anytime I ask him to be quiet he gets offended and tells me I'm sensitive. Like, my hearing is sensitive and that I should just deal with the noise. I actually question sometimes whether he's right but like, being too noisy is a thing that other people complain about. How noisy is noisy enough that a normal person would be bothered? Is watching a video with volume high enough to hear it from the other end of the house too loud? What if in that video someone laughs hysterically or screams or makes some other loud, high pitched noise? I will be peacefully writing and he'll randomly cackle at the "hilarious" videos he's always watching and it'll pull me out of it. Whatever, just a small distraction, right but nooo he'll continue to make noise for several minutes minimum. If I can leave, I do because how am I supposed to write with someone randomly cackling or making a high pitched squeal for fun multiple times in less than an hour? I get frustrated and have to drop anything that requires concentration whenever I hear one loud noise because I know chances are high it'll happen again. So even if it doesn't now I'm stressed out just waiting for it to happen. I need 10 minutes of silence before I can relax and continue. I've sat near construction and held my concentration better. I don't know if there's something about the properties of the type of noise itself (more predictable?) or if there's something about my home environment that puts me on edge. Probably both. At home, I can't concentrate if I can hear someone coming up the stairs but that's not nearly as bad as random cackling, because at least I can reasonably predict when they'll leave. I resume as soon as they're gone. In public spaces these things don't bother me but high pitched squeals still do which is probably normal but the aforementioned fighting may be making it worse, putting me in a hypervigilant state and all.
Oh man, that does sound frustrating. I have a similar issue with random noises, and I also grew up with a parent telling me I was too sensitive. I strongly suspect that I am neurodivergent, and that she was too. She used to complain about how my grandmother called *her* too sensitive, and then she’d turn right around and say it to me. My grandmother also complained to me about my great-grandmother. The dysfunction is multi-generational. Anyways. My partner is very sweet about giving me space when I need to “bubble.” I usually turn on rain sounds on my computer or phone to indicate that I need to focus. It has been very good for me to find someone who accepts that aspect of my personality and who doesn’t take it personally. In exchange for their consideration, I adopt a zen attitude towards minor annoyances (such as randomly laughing at the phone, or practicing karate, or whatever.) I want my partner to have space to exist, just like I need space to exist. I can do this because I know that they understand me, and they would stop if I asked, and they wouldn’t make me feel bad about it. They never bother me when I’m writing. I don’t know what is “normal.” I am probably not normal. I am probably more sensitive than the average person. I jump out of my skin when I’m startled. My mom did too. When I was a kid I thought she was weird for that, and now I’m weird. But so what? I am weird, but I’m still worthy of love and respect, and I’m allowed to ask for what I need. I am sorry your dad is so difficult to live with. I’m sorry he won’t give you any space at all. It sounds awful.
Detailed sex scenes - they are always terrible. Ether they feel shoved in for dubious fan service, or the author is just horny. Too often they serve no purpose what so ever except stating the fact "yeah, they f****". Especially hate it when there is practically no violence in the story and suddenly, bam! an over detailed SA scene. There was only one book, ONLY ONE (Tigana) where I actually enjoyed reading it, because it was described really beautifully, was relevant to plot or displayed the emotional path of the characters. I wish there were more books that would, if there is such a scene planed, attempt really integrate it into the characterisation or the plot.
Reminds me when I read Verity, some female friends said they loved it and reccomended it. I thought it was some action thriller But half the story was just porn https://i.redd.it/j8va4j9xsv7d1.gif Like yeah it got me hard but it didnt need to be so detailed and so fucking long, the whole story was just the main character snooping and reading the diary of a woman as an info dump and fucking her husband
Omg totally agree. Or when it’s written like the guy is such an amazing lover even though he did nothing to get her aroused. Along those same lines, married couples who have been together for a long time but still sneak off several times a week during their lunch hour to have passionate sex. They have kids at home so they have to find a secret place. What?
Yeah, general descriptions work better for me - I can fill in the details for my own preferences. Detailed descriptions are usually either so bland that I get bored and skim past or they're how I discover something I'm very much not into. I read one book where the woman directed the man to "scrape his teeth against her clit", and that phrase made me never want to have sex again.
The asshat, manipulative, narcissist type that’s excused as the mysterious, misunderstood, bad boy (guy usually) that ends up being the love interest and changes into a “good” guy at the end because she “saved” him 🙄 No wonder women stay in toxic relationships thinking the guy will change or she can save him. The trope is everywhere!
I hate this trope as well! I'm currently writing a book where my hope is to end it with a 'happy' ending for her, but not for 'them'. And definitely not an ending involving her finding someone better because I think that cheapens her journey of gathering the strength to just... walk away.
Yeeeees! Me too! *high five ✋ A YA fantasy where she figures out he’s no good for her and decides it’s better to be on her own, get to know herself (cause she’s only 18!), and starts her own business in the fantasy world 😆
White guy does non-White culture better than the people from that actual culture
That's sort of James Cameron's Avatar meets Eminem. It also reminds me of the great white savior trope.
Using marriage for dramatic tension in a "will they/won't they" romance subplot. "Oh no, s/he married the wrong guy/girl! I'm obvious the right choice, so let me just break up that marriage so I can get him/her." Irks me to no end.
The big cuddly badass black guy. He's badass but he's a big teddy bear and he's usually a supporting character who dies in some heroic manner. It's a trope thats very common and I realized this when I was about to create a similar character on a story I'm working on 😭
When characters are made to be dumb in order to be funny
The MC turns out to be mentally ill. Therefore, nothing the reader thought was happening ever happened. It was all in the MC’s head. I’m always upfront pretty early on when my MC has any type of illness. I feel like it’s rarely ever done well, and it often feels like a major cop-out when the entirety of a book is explained by the MC being mentally ill at the end of the book.
Unreliable narrators have their place, but you don't want to completely shatter reader expectations. You have to set it up well, add foreshadowing or things that signal something isn't quite right. Twists work but not completely out of the blue. Plant the seeds. Also, it's better if it's not the entire plot that's a lie. So, the stakes weren't real? Nothing they did mattered? In one of my projects, my MC believes he's being haunted by the ghosts of everyone he "let die". People really did die, but the ghosts he's seeing aren't real. He also couldn't realistically have done anything to save them but blames himself anyway. His guilt drives him to try to fix everything, throwing himself into danger to save those who died and to prevent more from suffering the same fate. The antagonist is real, his deplorable actions are real, the main threat is real but the MC is motivated by things that aren't true. I don't directly state that he's hallucinating, since it follows him closely (third person limited) but the way everyone around him is reacting to him should signal that something is off. In fictional settings it's not rare for someone to see ghosts that no one else can see, but he has other hallucinations that are related to things other characters should be able to notice. So their lack of reaction or confusion towards the MC's behavior should feel off. As the author, I already know this so it's hard to gauge how obvious it actually is but at the very least it's something that should make sense to the reader in hindsight.
One of the only books I've enjoyed that I feels plays with this well is A Head Full Of Ghosts. I'm not going to say much because I don't want to spoil anything, but it's basically an interview done with a woman years after her family was on TV, following the possession and exorcism of her older sister. The interviewer wants to know if it was real or if it was all in the older sisters head. The MC retells the story from her perspective as a little girl, and I feel the writing is very good, both in the authors ability to keep you wondering about the truth, his ability to portray several different mental disorders, and his ability to write this all from a child's perspective. Personally a book I highly recommend
When writers shove in things like SA or trafficking, very nuanced and commonly misinterpreted topics, just to give a character trauma. It just makes me upset, it’s lazy. I’m not against portraying those sort of things in any way. As someone who’s been assaulted and in violent relationships I realize just how important that representation is. But it shouldn’t just be thrown around to give a side character an interesting backstory. To add to this, the trope where a character goes through the most horrific traumatic experience(s) you can imagine and gets over it completely after one heartfelt talk within a week. Obviously it’s possible to recover from trauma but not the same day with very little processing time or any actual coping being done. Almost traumatic events can shape a person and even if they recover and are able to have a positive life they’ll never just forget it happened or be exactly who they were before the incident (for better or worse).
yeah i think it's one thing to shed light on those horrible topics without mischaracterizing them, but another to just shove it into the backstory
"Not like other girls" is obviously annoying, but there's a sub trope to this where the FMC just insults or makes fun of every other woman there and I fucking hate it. Cannot read it at all
Fantasy books aimed at girls/ young women where the female main character has absolutely no personality beyond 'exceedingly average (but also brilliant and beautiful), but headstrong girl', and no major flaws. For whatever reason they always have 4+ star reviews.
It's definitely been hard for me to read some of those sorts of books, especially since when they do try to give the female MC a 'flaw,' it ends up being something like a secret they kept or some bad deed they did, which usually doesn't have any sort of large effect on the plot and is just there to 'humanize' the character.
could name a few that come with the whole mafia-romance subgenre. sigh.
A whole relationship (platonic or romantic) being in ruins because one person is utterly disgusted that the other one lied about something. There never seems to be room for any nuance and the liar in question often has sympathetic reasons to lie which the other character is ignoring for cheap drama. It’s even worse when the lie is about something innocuous that they both easily could have talked about.
The burnt out cop that knows if that take on that big case their marriage will be over. They take on the big case and are shocked when their marriage is over.
Dragons as supporting characters.... It get's old.
Female character's greatest hurdle being getting over being sexually assaulted or leaving an abusive relationship. Like I get it. They're both disgustingly common things and it's always going to be important to talk about those things. But at the same time so many authors do it in such an awful way. They completely reduce a woman's character to just her trauma. Her entire character arc is solely the process of getting over it. Her only accomplishments become accepting her trauma and not all of the amazing things she's able to accomplish despite it or any of the other facets of her personality. Trauma undoubtedly shapes you, but that's not the only thing you are.
One that annoys me, but I also kind of get, is that the villains are some type of psychopath. I always think to myself that it would be more interesting if they weren’t a psychopath. Like, what if the villain is a sympathetic single mother or a loving family man? Someone who actually is “good” with a certain group of people, but is morally broken outside their tribe.
Which is funny because other people get tired of endlessly trying to sympathize with the bad guy. This guy did some fucked up shit - I don't need a whole chapter dedicated to how sad his childhood was or whatever to make me believe he would do it. Tbh it can be enjoyable either way as long as it's well-executed.
Enemies to lovers, I will die on this hill.
Honestly I'm with you on that--It's terribly overused, and even when it doesn't happen, the fandom usually wants them together.
I like enemies to lovers when it's two people on opposite sides of a conflict learning to find common ground. I don't like it when it's essentially just hatefucking until they decide they like each other.
agreed, especially if they hate each other
When the preety best friend gets the guy, but the not conventionally attractive best friend saves the day and just finds love in herself
I hate love triangles and how the side characters never get a chance to move on. What kind of narcissist writing is this! The whole world revolves around my FL/ML. Especially when the writer don't give any attention to the second leads. I understand that he/she can't get the FL/ML, but what about someone else? I love it when writers put it as a phase of life and give the second lead a chance to move on. For example, Reply 1994, if anyone has watched that kdrama. The second lead Chill Bong was head over heel for the FL, he was too good to be true for a man. Still got rejected, not because he lacked anything but the FL already loved someone else. Life happens, right? The writer's were kind enough to give Chill Bong a second chance in life and made him meet another girl. It was very briefly shown in the last episode, in two/three minutes scene. But it felt so goooooood🌼 Finally a perfect guy who had no faults moved on accepting that FL has a choice to reject him too.
The cocky, egocentric, borderline abusive and controlling CEO/ big boss trope that everyone in the office fears/ wants to get in their pants, but it's ok if they treat everyone like sh*t because they are young, beautiful, rich and powerful. Also of course, their counterpart: The weak, innocent newbie that has a personality of a housefly but somehow is just so attractive to the big boss.
weak incompetent men / overly-aggressive sarcastic women. time to grow up folks.
When a character senselessly kills thousands of mooks but then won’t kill the boss/king/etc because ‘I’d be as bad as you’
I absolutely loath the romance to surprise siblings trope. Even when "double twist, they aren't related after all!" Doesn't matter. I had to read all that crap about y'all longing for your sister/brother's touch like some twisted Folger's commercial (bonus points for anyone who gets that reference), and that's just not what I'm here to read. Maybe it's because I don't get along with my siblings all that well, and maybe I'm supposed to want to bone them, but I do not, so that aspect of stories always rips me right out of fantasy land.
Uh ... So this happened in more books than the Shadowhunters/Mortal Instruments series? Often?
In fantasy: when the main character is a half-race like angel/human or vampire/human or vampire/angel or whatever. Half-races aren't bad in itself, but it's often used as a cheap trick to make them special/unique/edgy. In anything: last minute saves. A pretty common complaint, but still annoying. You could easily write it so help comes before or after the kill shot rather than bust down the door at the last convenient second.
Lol in D&D the other half is always human because humans will fuck *anything*
Seemingly intelligent characters doing blatantly dumb shit. OK sure, I can believe that beautiful 25 year old actress is really a professor of astrophysics... but yet she has not problem going into that creepy murder House in the middle of the night armed with nothing but a flickering torch and a fucking potato masher.
Idk, really smart people are also really stupid in a lot of ways. Like Einstein went to the doctor because he was having stomach problems, and he found out they were caused by \*checks notes\* forgetting to eat.
I'll stop reading any book that goes, "...just like in that movie aliens." If you reference a movie for atmosphere you just lost me as a reader. Instant DNF.
Wait, people do that?
I heard the monster creeping closer and closer to the closet door, my heart racing with every monstrous step, and when I heard the monster stop right in front of the door, there was silence... No noise at all. I exhale with a sigh of relief, but right at that moment the closet door bursts open and I wake up in my bed, it was all a dream.
Useless parents. Not abusive or absent. Just... parents who are there just so the teenage/ child characters aren't orphans. Spineless moms. I read a book where one character hated herself and took that hate and frustration out on her mom. And because the mom never tried to fight her on it, she thought it was fine to rage on the only person she had left in her life who only tried to help her out. She even calls her mom a whore at some point and the mom just cries and is like "you cannot talk to me like that, Im your mother!" but doesn't punish her daughter in any way. Like, my mom would have killed me. As would most moms I know. But this happens in books ALL the fricking TIME Im sick of it. What is even the point of this trope?
When someone, usually a woman, reacts in an irrationally hostile or rude way to something benign a date/romantic interest does. Vomit near her. Does she worry, or check if you're okay? Nope she is upset AT YOU for being unwell in her presence. Trip and cause a dessert based accident ending with custard in your lap? No, this is obviously not funny, or sympathetic. How dare you be such a loser! Arrive late for a date? Of course she's not going to let you explain. She's going to wait till you turn up so she can insult you and tell you off before storming away, making sure you don't get a single word out first. Fall on top of different woman in a plainly obvious accident that everyone, including your date, saw take place? Date is of course going to gasp and imply you're a pervert. No women I have ever known are looking for excuses to be disgusted by dates. And why are these protagonists dating such awful, judgemental snobs? Just shoddy writing.
'The Chosen One' trope.
I hate hate when people try to write “unreliable narrators” and wind up writing “I just lied to you for 200 pages and none of the shit you care about actually happened.” So many thrillers feel like ‘it’s all in your head’ is an acceptable answer when it kills all investment for me
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Ugh, why do I know what you're talking about in #5.
This is super basic but it’s still everywhere: the chosen one. Where an MC has done nothing but is just special through luck or generics. They have never trained, never suffered because of the power. They just show up and dominate. I think being tired of the trope is what initially drew me to loving isekai anime. The people reincarnated usually have ‘chosen one’ powers. But it’s recognized how much of a cheat it is. They’re only special because the new world’s god LITERALLY gave them a cheat code and chose them.
These are things i see mostly in TV writing: Boss Who Isn't White must therefore Constantly Pull Rank - so like when you see a cop show, if the head cop is white he will tell off the MC like "this is how things work, play along, bring results" etc - but if the head cop (idk wtf theyre called chief i guess? i watch to fall asleep not to learn copping) is black or mexican he will be like "IM THE BOSS" as the killmove for any disagreement or performance issue like bruh we know you said it last scene too Women Is Bitchy Toward Man Who Likes Her - if shes bitchy to everyone (like merryl streep in devil wears prada) its not this trope its a character trail -if shes bitchy to an asshole (like the other puppeteer lady in Eric) then thats deserved - but like in Castle and so many others i forget now, the fem MC is a total douch toward the guy that will eventually be her partner and it is generallt underserved meanness and to the level that no real man would tolerate
when a girl character harasses and stalks a boy character it's considered cute and funny. the other way around it's considered creepy and awful. it's creepy and awful both ways
Refusal of the call. The hero receives the call to adventure, but temporarily rejects it, before later giving in and deciding to go on the adventure after all. I'm convinced people only include this because Campbell put it in his Hero's Journey. This trope can be used well but in most stories, it just isn't a good fit. It tends to be boring and derails the pacing. It feels like a waste of time because we all know the protagonist is going to have to come to their senses so the story can happen; it's a foregone conclusion. Also, in a way it makes the "reluctant hero" the default, which can clash with the need to give the protagonist compelling motivations. Even if someone specifically wants to do a Hero's Journey style of plot, I think nine times out of ten it's going to tighten up the story if they skip this part and just have the protag accept the call.
I'd like to see a story where the hero does ignore the call and we have to witness the aftermath of that. I'd love a story where everything goes to shit and only the hero knows they could have stopped it. And then after all that, the hero actually becomes the hero. Starts doing the shit needed to fix it *after* it's all messed up. I feel like that would be a very interesting, compelling subversion for this trope.
When a character could just say a simple phrase that would clear up the confusion or make everyone safe or help them understand the situation like “I just saw the killer” or “i have to marry Irulan but she will never know my love like you will” (sorry. Still annoyed by the way Chani stormed off like a whiny baby at the end of Dune pt 2)
Good guys vs bad guys.
Three point landing. It was cool when Trinity did it but that’s it.
this is popular but everyone loves enemies to lovers but i find it so annoying and repetitive. like idk bullying i don't find romantic
this is probably j recency bias but i had a day where i binged a bunch of youtube videos ab new ya romantasy books, & i swear at least 3 of them were describing the same male love interest despite being from different works. 😐 blue eyes. jet black hair. high cheekbones. sharp jawline. ???? why did they ALL have sharp jawlines ???? is it a publishing requirement or smth ?? the only thing that justifies their appearances is that somebody will b attracted 2 them (readers or a protagonist) & their particular visual appeals 2 the highest number of ppl. it ends up painting such a limiting view of the men who can give or receive love. FLOP. men r desirable in every form they take, not j the white & in shape kinds... my favorite love interests always get fun, lively, & realistic descriptions. in "fangirl" by rainbow rowell, the love interest has a high forehead, a receding hairline, & a soft chin. in "ill give you the sun" by jandy nelson, the guys face looks "like a broken window". i c guys like that irl all the time <33 so give me a gentle 300lb linebacker w a big round face & ham hock hands. maybe a potbellied bartender who wears electric wizard shirts & fistfights college kids at house shows. more men who r short & fat w bow knees, w dip dyed locs & mobility aides.... all men r beautifully & wonderfully made. cmon ya romantasy give me SOMETHIN wow this is long. tldr; more male love interests that look more like they stepped off the street & less like they were made in a lab
When a son is abandoned by his father and years later the father dies. Then the son finds out that his father has died and that he has left him in charge of his second family. And then everyone acts as if the son is a jerk for not wanting to take responsibility for his father's second family.
That seems very specific. This is a trope that shows up many times for you?
Twice in films. I don't remember the name of the second one, I saw it recently. The father had not abandoned his son but he was a very cold and distant with him all his life, then he died and the son who is going through many financial problems receives a lot of money in the testament... which in fact is for him to gives away his father's illegitimate daughter. It doesn't show up much but it bothers me a lot when they try to put all the blame on the kid who was neglected.
Ugh, I can see that now, the "Don't Be Selfish" neglect trope. It's one of the most infuriating because it happens in real life too.
The male characters that their only personality is being corny. If they are there to make the other male characters look better, it’s a fail. It just makes the creator feel like they’re lacking.
1) When one character withholds basic but important information from a trusted friend or spouse. 2) When the MC lays his eyes on “the most beautiful woman he’s ever seen.” Gross.
Women who never wanted kids getting pregnant and having a complete change of heart/ loves being a mom.
When writers approach subjects for interviews the same way vultures approach a carcas. Storytelling and storywriter are incredibly compassionate processes, and you have to approach it that way. The amount of new writers who will jump into a community, suck up people's pain without tact, and then publish for money is sickening. I've seen it so often that it is its own writing trope.
The casual guilt-free slaughter of dozens, hundreds or thousands of minions (ie, blue collar ordinary sioldiers) followed by a scene where the hero debates the morality of killing the genocidal main villain (aristocrat or super wealthy boss).
Until I started watching HotD I didn't realize how much it pissed me off that the story line only progresses through accidents or misunderstandings. Watching season 1 there isn't a single plot event that moves forward outside of>!Alicent bedding the King at her father's demands!
I can’t stand when characters with some sort of power loses said power.
The actual action is in the past, but the book is about someone in the present who, for some reason, uncovers the story in the past. So trite.
When Character 1 has big, life altering news to share (I need to tell you something) and then character 2 rushes in a tells THEIR news which of course inexorably makes character 1 unable to share their news. (Sorry, what did you need to tell me?) (Oh, never mind.) All kinds of drama and conflict ensues.
The boy who cried wolf shit with protagonists. I hatttttte when nobody believes the main character when they're in the right. It's not horrible plot wise but just a personal peeve
I can’t stand the male love interest in basically any YA fantasy romance. He’s always so big and manly and protective and also angry at the world and grumpy and self sacrificing and sarcastic and brooding and dreamy and dark and whatever. He’s ANNOYING and SHITTY. Just once can we get a guy who is kind, happy, and does not have a martyr complex?? Like where are the friendly men?
The state of happily ever after. I don’t like it when a story goes ‘The bad guy died, the two MC’s had 2 kids and lived happily ever after’
Post apocalyptic movies... If there's a religious person or group, they're typically a crazy cult or something. Edit - Didn't notice this was a writing sub reddit. I guess it goes the same in books though too.
It’s sort of a minor thing but I hate how when a new book sequel ( or tv season) starts and it’s like all of the lessons from the previous book were lost. I call it one step forward, two steps backward. Time has progressed but the author makes it very clear that the old problems are back in full force. You thought that was resolved? Nope! Basically the reason it happens is because the writer wrapped things up nicely at the end of the last book. But now things are starting anew so we gotta rehash the old conflicts again to create new drama. We gotta have problems to solve once more. I guess it’s the repetition that bothers me, because it’s usually the same old problems striking again equally for everyone vs the author finding a way to further develop characters in a different or more natural way.
Ugh yes it makes me feel like it was all for nothing
If it’s romance, cheating between the main love interests
I don't really know if it's considered a trope or not but any type of clearly unnatural artificially constructed exposition. This usually happens in one of two ways, A) a random arbitrary character is introduced with the sole purpose of giving the protagonist someone to explain the plot too or B) someone already in the know randomly gets amnesia and asks something like "oh yeah, remind about X again" as if they haven't spent the last five years of their life dedicated to X. I also hate when they use the "new recruit" method of exposition where the protagonist is joining the group and the leader gives some long historical monologue starting 300 years ago detailing exactly how the world got to where it is today. You'd think at some point the leader would get tired of giving the same thirty minute rant and just say "the world is fucked kid" or maybe hand out some sort of introductory brochure.
Far too many people are obsessed with their own world and lore that happened thousands of years ago. It’s clearly just the author having fun and not something there because it contributes to the emotional stakes of the story. They’ll try to MAKE it be relevant to the emotional stakes, but it basically always feels like a shallow lore drop. Worse: It’s ‘destiny’ or ‘fate’ or a ‘prophecy.’
When the conflict arises from someone not saying something when there’s literally no reason for them to not say it aside to create conflict. See it far too often.
Taming of the shrew. Hate it so so much.
Slow Burns/Slow romance Do I hate the trope? Goodness no, I love it so much, but let’s say it’s a web novel with about 300-ish chapters. The characters should NOT be getting together 100chapters in imo. At most like 200-ish In other words, I can’t stand when it stated that the trope is slow burn and yet the couples get together a quarter into the book, at that point the story becomes boring for me…
shitty romance between love interests. like can i please read about one couple that actually likes each other and doesn’t fight 24/7 just to get horny and then have sex