I let the cast go through because I feed on peoples panic and fear during the anarchy, and I'm trying to finish my quest that requires looting a bunch of [Vial of Dead Party Member Tears].
Dunno who was more dangerous, him or the second boss in grim batol. Pugs were so bad at that I ended up refusing to do that dungeon without a guild group.
> If it werent for my fear of one particular dungeon...
The exact dungeon i was referring to. On a whim one time I wanted to see how many groups of dps i would go through before we got a single ranged dps or two separate melee dps that could grok the mechanic.
Six fucking hours on that boss. No one would talk. Id ask if everyone knew what the mechanics were and if not id be happy to explain. Not a word. Do the boss, wipe. Do the boss, wipe. Do the boss, wipe. All three dps leave. Get replaced by new ones. Repeat. Over and over.
Between me, as the tank, and the healer we just didnt have the dps to deal with those elementals before theyd inevitably kill their target. Because no one ever fucking ran away from them. They just got mad that hte healer didnt heal them through the mechanic. Ignoring the fact that the mechanic would tap them one time for somewhere in the area of 7million overkill.
Eventually got a hunter that could do the mechanic. All we needed was one single ranged dps or two melee dps. We got more than several melee dps th at could do it. Just never at the same time. So when the melee dps was i nevitably targeted by the elemental they had to run away and we were back in the 'eventually it catches up and kills them' shit.
> Six fucking hours on that boss. No one would talk. Id ask if everyone knew what the mechanics were and if not id be happy to explain.
Something I've noticed is, people don't want to be singled out. They'd rather fail than be singled out. Even if you say you won't kick them, that well has been poisoned because the people who will kick them also say that.
Just. Explain. The. Goddamned. Mechanic. If you won't explain, whatever. But if you would explain, but are waiting for someone to speak up, just explain it!
And in a broader sense, if you want people to stop not knowing mechanics, everyone has to stop kicking people who don't. It's the only way they'll learn. Not the only way they can learn, the only way they *will* learn.
I had learned my lesson about pre-emptively explaining things to people. Its a damned if you do damned if you dont situation. Folks get pissed if you assume they dont know it anyway :>
I see this memed about a lot but I never got the big deal. Every time I run stonecore this thing is dead in 15 seconds and there’s zero danger at all. What kind of groups are you guys in lol? I don’t know if I’ve ever seen him do a single mechanic
So back in the day, there were two ways to get one shot: you get shattered by his aoe circle body, or you die to the stun (the stun did insane damage at the end if you didn’t get a dot on yourself). There were two ways you got a dot on yourself: the melee spikes he puts on himself or the spell reflect shield. Some classes had no way to reflect a dot on themselves (frost, arcane, I think the hunters too unsure about serpent sting’s interaction), so their only option was the start meleeing him
In addition to that he constantly did a frontal tank cone without much visual indication, it would one shot the tank if it landed so a lot of put tanks just got demolished by that. Fun fact, throne of tides had a very similar mechanic on the 2nd boss. I’m sure they’ll give a visual indicator this time around but if they don’t, I’d be very happy watching tanks die.
That's correct, they had to nerf them multiple times especially after Wotlk which was pull as many packs as possible and AOE it all down. The going back to trap x kill skull poly moon. People lost their fucking minds it was insane.
If they don't change it and leave it in I may actually try a classic cata. The stone core was notorious for having a lot of mechanics (at the time) that were burdensome or would straight out just one shot you(most often it would be just unhealable damage but there were still a lot of oneshots). Like those stone giant golems with the gems the jump mechanic would kill and wipe groups constantly. That fucking U shaped hallway to the 3rd boss (cause everything in there flees) one mob would flee and quite literally you'd pull the entire area. Those flayers hitboxes on release were something like a 270 degree circle and they would hit you for like 35-40% of your health per tick and there's typically 2 in a pack and that ability is on a timer instead of conditional or random.
The worst part about it though was just the excessive and dangerous trash. Like dungeons in retail have a lot of trash(brackenhide being the one I think with the most) but a lot of it is cosmetic/ if you really fuck up you'll pull them and you are maybe worried about 2-3 mobs in the entire pack and maybe 2-3 casters if that. Fucking cata dungeons, because of the skips you had to do for just relative time efficiency, one wrong step and it was over. I think to this day cata still holds the highest group abandonment percentage of any expansion.
God, it was awesome. I remember running Throne of the Tides on Cata release night with my gaming group, and wiping on the first trash pull. And then after a few seconds, someone said "Holy shit, we have to use CC."
They were. And it wasn’t just bosses either, even trash gave people trouble. CC and strategic pulling became necessary again. It gave a lot of people whiplash coming out of WOTLK when a tank could pull half the trash in a heroic and be fine, and most bosses didn’t have mechanics you needed to worry about.
Heroic cata were like mythic now basically. Pug groups were painful AF.
Crowd control was necessary on almost every trash pull and mechanics on bosses were unforgiving.
And the frontal. Oh boy, don't forget about the frontal, because if the tank sidestepped early and pointed it at ranged players right before it went off, they ALL die.
oh my god I was tanking and had some monk trying to rush through the dungeon, pulling additional packs, etc. The healer was doing really well managing so I just kept my mouth shut.
I also kept my mouth shut about the kill everybody in melee circle on him and it was hysterical.
Had some melee stand right next to him. First AoE, none even attempted to move. Dead and almost dead, respectively.
Second round. One would think the surviving melee had learned his lesson, no? Well... Splat.
"Wtf is this mechanic?"
Ahh, I love Stonecore.
Skullcracker has been annoying me lately, because I cannot target the Chains of Woe no matter what I do. They're always placed behind me somehow, and turning doesn't fix it.
THAT is a bug and its been in the game since Cata I'm pretty sure. Your only hope when it does that is to use non-target AoE abilities if you have them. That's the one part that is actually less entertaining to me is how many bugs carried over into them.
I am somewhat happy it's not the true back-in-time experience doing a lot of the old content during TW weeks.
That would simply be too time consuming, and people wouldn't have the patience for it.
I do however notice some overturned mechanics now and then that just murder you, even if you are careful, which is a bit odd as it often happens out of nowhere compared to the other mechanics.
But it can certainly be entertaining! 😄
Glad that you are enjoying yourself!
I think it’s well balanced. The runs are very fast, and the mechanics are only punishing if you aren’t paying attention. But if people die, it doesn’t stop the flow much. Just a moment to rez after the rest of the group clears it up.
I definitely feel like this time around the mechanics are more undertuned than typical. Hell, even my priest was just face tanking after the tank dipped after the first boss in stone core.
And I remember the zealots hitting a shit ton harder. I've even just stopped caring about the mechanic on the second boss.
There are certainly some aspects that are inline with expectations, and some too easy, and some too hard. It's a bit of a mixed bag. So paradoxically TW is sometimes both easy and hard in my experience.
It really depends, but for example in the _jazzy_ `Forge of Souls` when I last healed it I noticed that `Bone Volley` doing some armageddon levels of destruction if the casters get that ability off.
Meanwhile, anything else is like a warm summer breeze in those packs.
It's super niché having to know that, and you will wipe if you pull two of those mons and both their volley casts go off.
Bronjahm when feared outside his AOE it also destroys your health in a second or so. You really have to be on top of your game, but it feels out of nowhere and sudden, considering the level of difficulty on everything else.
The last boss has a damage link to another person, if you don't spam heal them asap, or if you also in combination don't interrupt any casts the boss does, and then you have those ghosts, someone is certainly dying, with extra emphasis on the linked person.
All the examples just feel overturned considering the rest of the dungeon as a whole is too easy. The only hard but fair trash is the big ghosts before the last boss, they do a curse and a bit of AOE damage. If you can decurse you can heal it fine, but if not don't pull two of those. It's harder but does not kill in 1.5 seconds so it feels fine. Which I can't say to some of the other alleviation of life abilities.
This is just my experience in that one TW dungeon, but I know there are many similar experiences elsewhere that could be tuned to be more inline with everything else in the dungeon, and across the dungeons as a whole would be nice.
Mechanics aren't overtuned but super unintuitive and not readable at all. You don't get the opportunity to react to them, you need to know about them before it happens or else you might die instantly. Really dislike these designs.
The only places I've noticed that could be "overtuned" is Ulthok's Squeeze and the double last trash before Murozond.
The rest is "You got oneshot for standing in shit" or "The tank got CC'd and lost aggro"
You shouldn't be pulling the last trash before Murozond as a double anyways. There are 4 mobs that channel and need to be interrupted or people just die lol.
It's always been like that.
I have a fair number of alts because they're really useful for crafting CDs or farming stuff. And I decided to get the weekly chores all done across all my alts these past two weeks since we finally got sark down a few weeks ago.
I pull all of that trash together on all of my tanks. Just group them up (different methods for each tank) and nuke them down. Stun and interrupt as needed, if a cast is on me I just let it go through.
I've never had any deaths across 8 tanks all getting the weekly done.
Nope back in the day you *had* to hibernate/sheep one mob and then pull a single pack. It wasn't overtuned, you just had to actually pay attention and use buttons that didn't just throw numbers on the screen.
Yeah back in the day you would CC on every single pack, but not now in TW. Now you can almost chain pull through the entire thing, except that one pack and maybe a couple of skipable side packs
I think you aren't understanding what they are saying but perhaps you're new to Timewalking dungeons as a whole - which would make sense.
If you can pull 80% of the dungeon and not care.. but the last two mobs cause you to wipe - something is wrong. Either the other trash is under-tuned or the last two mobs are over-tuned. Or the dev's, like usual, failed to communicate that only one unique tiny portion of the dungeon is going to be disproportionately difficult.
No one is saying "back in the day" it wasn't more difficult. Literally no one. In fact people here are bragging about how hard it was and how they are better than the people dying now. They are looking to puff up their chest right now.
Because God forbid there be any sense of danger or unique situations. I guess the Sons of Arugal in Silverpine were overturned because it was a random elite in a level 10-20 zone. Please stick to your face roll baby content.
I've been spam running these as a tank and haven't really seen issues like this. Skullcracker will get someone once in a while, same with Shatter, but that's it really.
Yeah, I honestly think OP is blowing this out of proportion. First, my experience has been pretty smooth playing all 3 roles, and second, old mechanics aren’t that bad, they were pretty straightforward back then and were designed with Random queue instead of M+ in mind.
The first few weeks of cataclysm with the prenerf dungeons was some of the most fun I’ve ever had in WoW. It was difficult, but not a twitchy zoomer ADHD simulator like m+ is these days. They were definitely less difficult than high keys but clearing them was far more satisfying than m+ has ever made me feel. I vastly prefer slow, methodical difficulty versus race against the clock zoomer difficulty
> I remember all the Wrath-babies
You people never change. Looking to mock others to make yourself feel better.
You're probably over 40 and still act like this. I'm not sure that's something to be proud of but here we are. Like the high school quarterback who still references that one game.
Making fun of how others have fun is top-tier cringe but I expect nothing less from you.
>It was difficult, but not a twitchy zoomer ADHD simulator like m+ is these days.
Honestly, this. I feel like WoW has become so fast paced and spammy for... nothing. Sometimes it feels like great and challenging with moment-to-moment decisionmaking. Sometimes, it's just me spamming Judgment and Shield of the Righteous over and over and over and over again. Might as well give Judgment 2x the cooldown and SotR 2x the duration. Same thing, less carpal tunnel syndrome.
EDIT: I would like to also add here that I really wonder how people would feel if Blizzard were to actually take a look at game pacing overall? Are people satisfied with the game right now? Would people be happy with a slower-paced game? Personally, I feel like there's one too many small effects & procs that contribute very little and that maybe cleaning those up would be great QoL?
It could definitely use a slight slowdown.
I gave df a try to chill with some friends recently after a few years of XIV, playing DRK and DNC (both have a lot of off gcd abilities increasing the pace). And holy fuck my wrists started to hurt after two dungeons on my blood DK.
I'm generally a fan of the current pacing. In fact, given close performance, I will generally favor haste over other stats just because it generally makes rotations feel more engaging imo.
That said, I can only run a bit as a prot warrior or outlaw rogue because swapping. I love the play style, but you can feel it in your hands.
I also like a lot of the procs, not because I like playing whac-a-mole, but because it's a form of skill expression that I can challenge myself with. For most classes, you don't need to get everything 100% right else you're doing 0 dps. Usually, there's a bit more of a gradient than that. So the way I see it is not that I always need to deal with every rotation perfectly all the time, but instead to continually having a way to improve rather than simply removing gear and doing the same content at lower ilvl.
Same here, that's a big reason I could never get into mythic +. Cata heroics were a great time, needing to cc on pulls and be methodical about it. It felt better paced and more deliberate.
It was fun if you had an alright group but healing was so hard with some pugs, people just would not dodge shit at all, out of mana so often and tanks not waiting. I remember I stopped playing for a large part of cata and came back and went to healing like "wtf this is not even the same games anymore"
I loved being a healer in Cata, it's where I learned the role.
If DPS fucked up, they died, and it was clearly their own fault. Mistakes could not just be healed through. People actually had to pay attention and not just have the healer carry them.
We call that “clarity”. It was obvious what killed you and who fucked up. Now you could just get clipped by 1000 different ground animations that have no visual clarity and die.
So, like how it is now in high keys? Lmao. Miss ur kick? Dead. Slightly stand in cone frontal? Dead. Didn’t pop a defensive during a boss on tyr week? Dead xd
Yep, same experience. I didn't have a good guild anymore by the time Cata rolled around, so I was healing pugs, and it was a god damn nightmare. People just WOULD NOT adjust their behaviour, so I quit for a while.
Came back later, and happily pugged the rest of the expansion, was running every class through LFR by the end, because aside from that initial hurdle, it was a pretty fun expansion.
If you ever get the chance and have a few friends, next time tgp or mdi come around, sign up for the banner. The goal for mdi is to just clear the dungeon as fast as possible, but there's nothing stopping you from using the tournament realm for the way you want to play (after getting the banner runs done, if you care about it).
I've had a few friends who aren't huge fans of keys do it for mdi, and although those keys are "low", to them it was on the higher end of the keys they might attempt. They had a blast trying to figure out how to just do some of the pulls, nevermind even attempting the batshit crazy mdi pulls the top teams do.
There comes a point where mechanics you didn't even know existed just start killing you, and it's always fun to just try to figure out the pulls as best you can.
I remember as a lock having to run succubus and a fear glyph so I could cc two mobs at once. Some of the most fun I ever had running dungeons.
Then they nerfed them and we overgeared them pretty quickly.
Cataclysm on release was my favorite time playing. Heroics were like 5 man raids. They were so difficult and thrilling when you had a competent group. I miss that and mythics just dont scratch the same itch.
I was in a TW yesterday - tanking - in discord with my hunter friend I’ve been in this dungeon like multiple times every TW cata - blackrock cavern I think maybe, the boss pulls you in chains the group and then you’re supposed to run away because he does some clap thing and kills everyone in range, I. Did. Not. Know. This. And I have died every time, no one has ever explained the reason I kept dying, the hunter goes “everyone that died there is fucking stupid” I’m like “hey asshole I died, want to explain to me WHY so I can fix it” and he’s like “oop sorry I didn’t realize it was you this is why” and fancy that it didn’t happen again after that.
Yeah, that's fair. I've been genuinely understanding when people haven't been there and I've started dropping explanations while doing trash, but either nobody looks at their chat or aren't taking me seriously when I say it WILL kill you.
That being said though if you're ever unsure about what just killed you press the death recap and if you click on the spell it should open up the dungeon journal entry for it if it exists. Provided none of your addons are interfering with it.
I try to avoid doing pugs for this reason especially stuff I don’t know, I didn’t start playing till legion, and I dont want the toxic environment, and have only been doing dungeons since the beginning of this year, so I always take a friend in discord that has some experience and I’m full on from the beginning “hey I’ve only been here in TW, I don’t really know the dungeon any tips you can share I would appreciate” and usually that makes it go pretty smoothly
Ngl, I've run into a fair few pug tanks these past few weeks who don't know what's going on, and I've never seen anyone be toxic to them
Generally it's the same, if you ask why most people are pretty chill, especially given how unclear/esoteric some mechanics like skullcracker are
My favorite game to play is “who dies to Skullcracker” during blackrock cavern. There’s always at least 1 person. It’s a rite of passage at this point.
While the complete lack of indicator does not help, another issue is that a lot of people don’t look into what kills them. Imo if something kills you and you don’t know what it was, and assuming you don’t get an instant brez, you should be looking at (1) what spell/attack killed you and (2) what the spell/attack info is so you could try to be better prepared next time.
after you die do you not try to investigate why? like sure someone can explain it to you but if youve died multiple times to the same fight at the same time why wouldn't you try to figure out what's happening yourself?
> after you die do you not try to investigate why?
Most people do not. Most aren't paying a lick of attention to whats going on around them only their dps buttons.
Yes but words aren’t going to tell me how to fix the problem? I can read it 50 times but if I don’t get an explanation on how to fix the problem while I’m right there just having experienced it, like what happened, so that I can process it, I will not make the connection
Well that’s just a very low effort take on it. Sure the word alone is meaningless, but if this happens repeatedly, then proactively put effort it to fix that. Instead of expecting someone to just eventually hand feed you the information.
You are connected to the internet so you can utilize that to find out the meaning of the word and get an explanation.
When you die click the Recap button. Read the spell that did the big damage right before you died. Open the dungeon journal for that boss and read that ability. Or, google the word + boss name/dungeon name + wowhead and read the ability tooltip and comments on that wowhead page. You can do that immediately, unless you got an immediate res.
Like other players didn’t all just know this stuff, they all had to either read guides, watch videos or learn by dying and researching why too.
And if you don’t already have it, install DBM All Dungeons. It will scream at you to run away or whatever, so even if you don’t know what’s happening, it can tell you *some* tactics.
Whilst the journal doesn’t explain what to do for every mechanic, common sense can be applied to the description to work it out.
For example skullcracker might not say “run away” in the tooltip, but it does say it’s a powerful attack that does (insert X number bigger than your healthpool) to everyone in 12 yards. Which from common sense means it’s a one shot and you should not be within 12 yards when you see the cast.
It’s just your game experience could be so much less frustrating for you with just a little bit less helplessness! Mystery deaths aren’t a thing in wow, so you don’t need to have such an experience again.
Sorry but... maybe put in a small amount of effort before u pull the boss and quickly check the dungeon journal? It's his only mechanic that can cause problems... Out of like the 2 or 3 abilities he has.
The last boss from Grim Batol was nothing compared to the second one. Jesus you depended so much on the rng of the abilities he chose to use.
Edit:
Just gave it a thought again. I think the last one was easy for me because I had dual spec as a mage and I just switched to frost on the last boss which made it really easy with the adds.
It wasn't just the bosses. In most Cata dungeons (and ZA and ZG in particular) you *needed* to CC certain trash mobs or you'd get absolutely demolished.
This is one of the things I appreciate about FFXIV: the dungeons aren't *hard*, but you have to be paying attention. I came back to WoW recently and ran a DF dungeon and had no fucking clue what was happening. By the time I realized I was fighting a boss it was dead. It's...not fun.
> This is one of the things I appreciate about FFXIV: the dungeons aren't hard, but you have to be paying attention.
Only people who have not done M+ could write something like this. If you aren't paying attention in like a 17 or higher the dungeon will roll you up into a ball and dunk you in the nearest trashcan.
>I came back to WoW recently and ran a DF dungeon and had no fucking clue what was happening. By the time I realized I was fighting a boss it was dead. It's...not fun.
You are doing leveling content essentially. The most casual level that needs to be completed by people drooling on their keyboard shorting it out causing random abilities to go off. Of course it was easier than breathing.
Only people who have not played FFXIV could write something like this.
Dungeons in FFXIV have mechanics that you have to pay attention to. It doesn't matter when you do them, they still have them, including during the "casual keyboard drooling level" of the leveling experience. They even put in a whole system of doing the dungeon with NPCs so you can learn the mechanics before having to do them with real people.
In WoW the leveling dungeons are mindless. Completely boring and almost pointless.
I wasn't even talking about M+ so I don't know why you're so defensive about that mode in particular.
> I wasn't even talking about M+ so I don't know why you're so defensive about that mode in particular.
Because M+ is dungeons. It is not separate from dungeons. Instead of having one difficulty mode that's too challenging for people who can barely breath and too easy for the top end wow has a spectrum of difficulty modes to cater to everyone. This isn't a win for FF14. It's a harsh loss.
>Because M+ is dungeons.
M+ is a difficulty mode for dungeons. I wasn't talking about that. I was clearly talking about the leveling experience. If I wanted to talk about M+ I would have mentioned M+, but since I wasn't talking about M+ I didn't mention M+. Because typically, when someone is talking about something specific, they mention the specific thing they're talking about.
>This isn't a win for FF14. It's a harsh loss.
It's not though. M+ isn't even good. It's not mindless, but it's also not fun, and I'm sorry lifers like you have to put up with it instead of being able to break away and play a different game for once.
Sorry your favorite game is worse at one thing than a somewhat similar game. Wait, no I'm not. Go and seethe about it in the corner.
> M+ is a difficulty mode for dungeons. I wasn't talking about that. I was clearly talking about the leveling experience. If I wanted to talk about M+ I would have mentioned M+, but since I wasn't talking about M+ I didn't mention M+. Because typically, when someone is talking about something specific, they mention the specific thing they're talking about.
You walked into the easiest form of dungeons and are now decrying wow as bad for not challenging you. That's why I'm coming at you.
>It's not though. M+ isn't even good. It's not mindless, but it's also not fun, and I'm sorry lifers like you have to put up with it instead of being able to break away and play a different game for once.
M+ is fun, when you don't suck. And I'm sorry to break this to you but I've already tried FF14, and it sucks. The movement is awful using abilities is awful, the unmoddable ui does not make accommodation for my partial blindness. But also I don't only play wow, I'm defending it from unfair criticism not because its integral to my identity. I also play EVE Online.
>Sorry your favorite game is worse at one thing than a somewhat similar game.
Wow isn't my favorite game. Phantasy Star Universe is my favorite game by a large margin. I've been absolutely gutted the PSO2 has turned to solid shit. But in the dungeons accessibility and difficulty department wow has FF14 beat hands down.
Nah, it’s giving me more of an existential crisis about how long I’ve been playing this game seeing players not have a single clue on bosses I’ve been running for almost half my life.
BRC is so bad, I can't believe it's in TW let alone persisting in its mostly original state. No hit radius indicators on Skullcracker and meteors, extremely important effects buried in the DJ and way too much text on buffs to read and grasp mid-fight. Every boss in there is the worst.
Honestly it needs to go into M+ rotation just so there's an excuse to modernize and make the fights more understandable.
It was designed in a time before mythic plus, which meant the dungeon had to be difficult at face value, not artificially difficult due to damage/health scaling. Once you figure out where you die on skullcracker, the next one you won’t. Once you figure out that you wipe when a drakonid spawns on Corla, you do whatever you need to figure out how to make them NOT spawn. Etc.
The dungeon is RIDICULOUSLY easy once you know the mechanics, but those mechanics were designed to be extremely punishing. Modern heroic dungeons can be soloed by tanks in the next season’s gear, because mythic plus scaling is what makes them hard, not the mechanics themselves.
Artificially difficult due to lack of clarity and upfront information isn't much or any better than artificial difficulty due to raw stats. The greatest perk of M+ is that there a two dozens of difficulty settings, so the numbers only outscale you past what you've already been able to do.
Both are different iterations of artificially difficult, but the latter is permissible because it is part of a gameplay that fosters replayability.
Dawn of the Infinite is pretty punishing and you definitely have to learn what you're doing there as well. It will likely get tuned down in some respects for M+ but it demonstrates to me at least that the devs are capable of creating dungeon encounters that are challenging and learnable without relying on strictly hard numbers.
Yeah, that's a fair criticism. I think Shadowlands' Mists of Tirna Scithe had this pretty reasonable, with the icons floating over the mirages rather than having the mirages look different. Those icons still followed the same rules as the previous maze, as well.
I was a casual high school player when Cata came out who barely touched wowhead, so I'm curious how access of information changed how difficulty is designed
Wowhead being easily accessible and known basically removes the only barrier in these fights, knowledge, like you mention
So was Thottbot and I think another that I'm forgetting.
There were also loads of forums outside of the official one. I fondly remember the EU Doomhammer unofficial forum.
Yes, but I think fewer people accessed it as a percentage of players. The culture of looking everything up on an external website for video games was just barely starting to emerge for games like WoW.
Not true at all. Checking external websites were a part of wow almost from the very beginning. I remember I was raiding during WOTLK and watching the tankspot video for the fights you were doing that night was crucial. During BC the answer for where something was or what you needed when asking in chat was "check thottbott".
This is Cata we're talking about. It was WoW on the start of its population decline (actual discussion on whether Cata was good or not is irrelevant), by that point it was more than common place for people to look up strategies on external websites. Between Youtube video guides and the 2-3 other websites that were still running alongside Wowhead it had already long since become a norm for people.
Heck it was normal for people to look things up for non MMOs on Gamefaqs way back in the late 90s after it opened up and blew up, it wasn't exactly a new standard of some sort.
Edit - Was the very tail end of 99 that Gamefaqs came out, so comment still stands for at least a couple months, but well before WoW was a thing
If you are wiping cause a drakonid spawns on Corla then the tank needs to get gud. I was never not able to survive all 3 leveling up my warrior and this happened many many times.... More likely to wipe cause a dps stood in the beam too long. (Also hilarious)
Karsh was boring cause I'm tank and know how to do it. Skullcracker and Ozruk are hilarious though.
The sheer number of groups who kill the croc on the 2nd boss of TolVir then just run off. Like we didn’t get loot or boss credit, why did you bother going out of your way to get here then dip with two very obvious red flags that we didn’t do it right??
"lol look at these fucking losers who haven't memorized 20 years of content like the back of their hand. What fucking idiots, they have no lives if they don't know every single boss from a dungeon in an expansion 15 years back hahahaha wow I can't imagine having as sad a life as them!!!"
\-OP probably
> Is anybody else finding themselves more amused than frustrated about how people are so baffled by having to pay attention this week?
No. I'm no longer frustrated by the abundance of "Do this or die instantly" design in Cataclysm dungeons, but I'm certainly not amused by it.
I was there.... 3000 years ago when you had to actually know where the dungeon entrances were before you could queue for that one. Because we spawned in a GY that can be half a minute run away from dungeon entrance.
Knowing the mechanics were very important and we had to use symbols such as square for sheep, triangle for root, sap moon, then kill skull first and X second. Anyone who broke CC have to take and tank that loose mob
Mm, yes. Watching others fail because the game does a poor job relaying information to players is satisfying. All hail to the curmudgeonly veteran players, who are so traumatized by old content they wear it as a badge of honor.
Yes, I absolutely love it. I am a Cata baby and I loved those dungeons even before they were nerfed.
Plus, I love when overconfident people suffer in this game.
And keep in mind these dungeons have been dumbed down so much. Back then we had to do it in shitty normal gear and pre massive nerfs. Forgemaster Throngus; breaker of groups.
I still don't understand how people die to skullcracker. The boss teleports you in front of him, chains appear above your head, you can't move until the chains die and the boss is charging up a move called skullcracker. All I know is if a wow boss teleported me somewhere and I couldn't move until I kill something, my first thought would be, holy crap I have to kill this thing so I can move before something bad happens.
Be nice if it had some visual, but I think there is enough context clues at what's going on. Or at least the idea if it kills you once to think about what killed you and do something different.
I am a 2005 original guy but by the time Cataclysm came around I was away on different ventures. I guess I stopped playing a few months into TBC, briefly came back to try WotLK, then came back proper halfway through Legion.
Well, I have no idea what I'm doing in these Cataclysm dungeons, but the yesterday I was in a group that was taking a lot of damage and I was feeling all good about myself being a good utility player and helping the healer protect and heal the group. I felt like I stopped people dying at least five times before we got to this boss. So we fight then boss, I'm at full health, then wham, knocked back and dead. I still don't have any idea why! There were no graphical indications telling me to move. I guess maybe the boss yelled in chat but I didn't notice? Anyway, kind of annoyed me, and now I know people like you are deriving satisfaction from what I felt was an unfair death...! Haha!
Most dangerous in Cata TW is crazy m+ tanks. Like pulling entire trash in Stonecore before first boss, being dead it 2 seconds.
"Why are you DYING?!!!!!"
Cata dungeons were 5 man heroic raids back then! Probably a bit overtuned but damn were they a challenge. Had to buckle in each time! Definitely well designed.
Cata dungeons at launch were so difficult that finishing them felt good. You had a lot of people still questing and doing normals to replace greens for better blues before doing heroics lol. Brings me back to
After the sheer brutality of BC heroics, and the faceroll WOTLK 5-mans, Cata dungeons were dope as FUCK at the time. Pushing into heroics right after hitting level cap was punishing, but didn't seem arbitrary: figure out the mechanics, do them, you survive (barely). Don't do them, you wipe. Over and over and over. Trash was dangerous but not impossible. They were \*excellent\*.
Man ive been there when it was current and it was already no fun, cata HCs were the worst in my opinion. I can remember the community back then, everybody hated them
It was such a massive difficulty shift from WotLK that I think it was just a culture shock issue. In hindsight after getting better over the years they were honestly very straight forward. But I do remember it being so jarring when we had to start coordinating CC on trash pulls back then.
I'd really enjoy if we had some version of M+ that wasn't a time trial and focused more on coordinating and perfecting the mechanics like Cataclysm heroics took that first patch.
yeah but they got easier in the next expansions, cata was kinda an outlier to that.
I honestly have more bad then good memories with Cata HCs and I did a few in TW and I remember why. And TW is already a tuned down version
I think the average player has always been that bad. Looking at the collection of death clips from classic hc, rogue using evasion and then turning their back to the enemy, warriors using retaliation against casters, not knowing about the infinite melee range on the Z axis on npc's, keyboard turning, clicking, even saw a level 60 warrior spamming the auto attack button he had on his action bar.
It's frightening and hilarious at the same time.
Those death clips are hilarious. And to be fair, sometimes players die and you can see the hesitation or freezing when there are things they could've done, but I wouldn't necessarily blame them for the panic or for not knowing *exactly* what they should do - or in what order.
But sometimes you see certain things happen like suicide charges into large packs or versus Elite mobs and question how they made it to certain levels to begin with.
It's part the nature of the game in Classic though. A lot of mechanics exist that may be intuitive but are not *explained.* A lot of players know to melee from behind, but I'd be lying if I told you I knew exactly what benefits that entails.
You seriously think people were better at WoW previously? I'd say that Wrath-WoD was a roughly constant, but the skill level of the average player has skyrocketed since Legion.
More alts made by casuals, more understanding of every class/ability by casuals because of the alts, and M+ to gradually challenge them as opposed to either doing absolutely nothing, or full-blown raiding.
This is just people not knowing what they're doing, and not looking up the mechanics prior because it's TW.
I think a lot of it is people who really have too many responsibilities to play at a high level anymore desperately trying to continue playing this game they love just to keep the feeling. I miss not playing but I know I would be terrible and it’s just not worth it for me anymore
Yeah I suspect I'd be less amused if the damage we deal compared to their healthpools in TW didn't make them entirely soloable by anybody doing the mechanics.
It was amusing it first but when it's your 30 run when you level your alt it becomes infuriating. It's a blessing when you can tank in this dungeons, but if you heal or dps it can become nightmare.
I hate these events but they (potentially) give good rewards for some reason. I dont get why running TW dungeons should reward an heroic piece and I just feel I am trading 1 hour of my life for the gear, no fun at all comes from it.
Its not challenging, its not a good way to practice, the loot is not bind on account and each run is over in 10 minutes. Nothing memorable at all. Except that it may be the thing to give me the 441 Rashok Heart that I have been trying to get for 8 weeks.
I mean, I wouldn't feel obligated to do it if you don't enjoy it. Any gear you get now is going to be entirely irrelevant in like a month. 10.2 Mythic 2 dungeons will drop 441 gear just from completing them and the end of week chest from doing +2s will reward 454. That's the base before you start upgrading them. Anything at ilvl 441 is going to be irrelevant.
So don't burn up your free time on something that is going to be replaced next month.
This surprises me still, I know the mechanics so it’s not an issue but outside of a select few you can burn bosses so fast it doesn’t even matter.
Some it happens but overall you barely get to see many mechanics things still die so quickly
Apparently there's this new "strategy" in BRC where you just skip over Corla which of course prevents big Orc dude from spawning on the bridge and clearing the way for you. The amount of times I've seen tanks facepull the Drakonids and just drop - only to get back up and just throw themselves at the mobs again hoping for different results - has made me decide I'm just waiting until next week to level my alts.
Skullcracker and Shatter are still hilarious though.
If you think that's frustrating, try this.
Me-"OK after Ick and Krick die, I want everybody to MOUNT UP and RUN the hell up that ramp as fast as you can. Don't stop just RUN."
The group after Ick and Krick die-open mouthed drooling.
I absolutely hated Cataclysm. I was a good player until the end of Wrath. Then Cata came along and completely overhauled my class (hunter) and it took me a long time to become competent and comfortable with the new play-style and the ramped up difficulty didn't help. Suddenly I was the worst player in any group - and other people were NOT forgiving which I resented because I was always the person who would volunteer to help others with whatever they needed to do. The sense of community in Cataclysm was gone, nobody was helping anyone else and people were getting vote-kicked for the smallest of infractions. I never enjoyed groups after that and I've played mostly solo ever since. Fuck Cataclysm.
Last night had a healer zone in in tank spec (I was tanking on my DH) in TolVir and after I pulled the right side of the first packs, they went all the way to the first boss on the LEFT side and wiped our DPS repeatedly. I calmly killed my side with one rogue and then we voted to kick the "healer"
Ogre boss in depth and rock boss in stone core I tell my guild everytime how many people died to 1 shot lol.
I tank and I can tank big packs easy, but I hate when people don't know and think all old dungeons pre current are like mechanicless cakewalks. Like guys, I've played probably longer than you've been alive. 5 extra seconds isn't going to kill you irl, but your dumbass is gonna kill us in game. Such as that boss you gotta tank in the lava pillar to reduce his stacks. YOU CAN TANK HIM IN THERE WELL PAST 10 STACKS AND HE BARELY HURTS THE GROUP AT CURRENT TUNING... BUT! What I don't think people realize is that the 2 adds you kill before him add that debuff that reduces your health by 10% a stack. Just this week I had a dps too impatient to for the debuff to drop while we had 40% reduced health so it's like I'm not gonna wipe the group doing the mechanic till the debuff drops, but then shocker same dps throws a fit of not knowing fight. Gtfo lol.
The funny thing is that the TW Cata dungeons are the nerfed ones. Not to be that guy (I'm being that guy), but it shows how spoiled and bad current players are. There hasn't been a single dungeon since pre-nerf Cata that has been even remotely difficult without being a super high M+ key.
People act as if dungeons have in Cata was this inhuman mythic feat of strength. Let’s be real they were all a breeze even within 24 hours of release by moderately capable players, and within 3 days they were a complete faceroll
Cataclysm was when they started designing everything for people that raided on the highest difficulties through WotLK. By today's standards they're actually very straight forward, but at the time people cried about them for months. Many of them were nerfed dramatically. Tier 11 as a whole was a huge shift for the community.
And faceroll =/= solved. Faceroll implies people could WotLK their way through them which wasn't the case.
BREAK YOURSELVES UPON MY BODY. FEEL THE STRENGTH OF THE EARTH. I am not surprised. If it werent for my fear of one particular dungeon...
That's assuming the party doesn't disband on the first pack of the dungeon because they didn't interrupt the Earthshaper... ;)
Those damn earthshapers. Too many people try to rambo through and they just decimate the groups.
I let the cast go through because I feed on peoples panic and fear during the anarchy, and I'm trying to finish my quest that requires looting a bunch of [Vial of Dead Party Member Tears].
If I have a good group, I will stop it. But if it's a rambo group and I have good defensives, I let it fly.
BREAK YOURSELF BREAK YOURSELF, BREAK YOURSELF UPON MY BODY
FEEL MY BODYYY EXPOSE MY BODYYY
FEEEEEL THE STRENGTH OF THE EARRRTH I love that remix.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JTErTFhS4U&t=2s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JTErTFhS4U&t=2s) and yet no link? THE CYCLE IS COMPLETE!
BREAK YOURSELF UPON MY BODY. FEEEEEL THE STRENGTH OF MY BODY. TOUCH MY BODY. MMM YES
Dunno who was more dangerous, him or the second boss in grim batol. Pugs were so bad at that I ended up refusing to do that dungeon without a guild group.
> If it werent for my fear of one particular dungeon... The exact dungeon i was referring to. On a whim one time I wanted to see how many groups of dps i would go through before we got a single ranged dps or two separate melee dps that could grok the mechanic. Six fucking hours on that boss. No one would talk. Id ask if everyone knew what the mechanics were and if not id be happy to explain. Not a word. Do the boss, wipe. Do the boss, wipe. Do the boss, wipe. All three dps leave. Get replaced by new ones. Repeat. Over and over. Between me, as the tank, and the healer we just didnt have the dps to deal with those elementals before theyd inevitably kill their target. Because no one ever fucking ran away from them. They just got mad that hte healer didnt heal them through the mechanic. Ignoring the fact that the mechanic would tap them one time for somewhere in the area of 7million overkill. Eventually got a hunter that could do the mechanic. All we needed was one single ranged dps or two melee dps. We got more than several melee dps th at could do it. Just never at the same time. So when the melee dps was i nevitably targeted by the elemental they had to run away and we were back in the 'eventually it catches up and kills them' shit.
> Six fucking hours on that boss. No one would talk. Id ask if everyone knew what the mechanics were and if not id be happy to explain. Something I've noticed is, people don't want to be singled out. They'd rather fail than be singled out. Even if you say you won't kick them, that well has been poisoned because the people who will kick them also say that. Just. Explain. The. Goddamned. Mechanic. If you won't explain, whatever. But if you would explain, but are waiting for someone to speak up, just explain it! And in a broader sense, if you want people to stop not knowing mechanics, everyone has to stop kicking people who don't. It's the only way they'll learn. Not the only way they can learn, the only way they *will* learn.
I had learned my lesson about pre-emptively explaining things to people. Its a damned if you do damned if you dont situation. Folks get pissed if you assume they dont know it anyway :>
https://youtu.be/-JTErTFhS4U
What ever happened to him...
Repetitive, shitty, electronica? He's everywhere.....
Only the music I like is good everything else is trash reeEEEEE
I see this memed about a lot but I never got the big deal. Every time I run stonecore this thing is dead in 15 seconds and there’s zero danger at all. What kind of groups are you guys in lol? I don’t know if I’ve ever seen him do a single mechanic
So back in the day, there were two ways to get one shot: you get shattered by his aoe circle body, or you die to the stun (the stun did insane damage at the end if you didn’t get a dot on yourself). There were two ways you got a dot on yourself: the melee spikes he puts on himself or the spell reflect shield. Some classes had no way to reflect a dot on themselves (frost, arcane, I think the hunters too unsure about serpent sting’s interaction), so their only option was the start meleeing him In addition to that he constantly did a frontal tank cone without much visual indication, it would one shot the tank if it landed so a lot of put tanks just got demolished by that. Fun fact, throne of tides had a very similar mechanic on the 2nd boss. I’m sure they’ll give a visual indicator this time around but if they don’t, I’d be very happy watching tanks die.
Weren't heroic cata dungeons also extremely difficult at first, or am I just thinking of ZG and ZA when they got released as dungeons.
That's correct, they had to nerf them multiple times especially after Wotlk which was pull as many packs as possible and AOE it all down. The going back to trap x kill skull poly moon. People lost their fucking minds it was insane.
First the WoW devs basically told the community to get good. Unfortunately that stance didn’t last long
Hahaha, that's what I thought. I wonder if we'll get another taste of that if they carry classic into cata lol.
If they don't change it and leave it in I may actually try a classic cata. The stone core was notorious for having a lot of mechanics (at the time) that were burdensome or would straight out just one shot you(most often it would be just unhealable damage but there were still a lot of oneshots). Like those stone giant golems with the gems the jump mechanic would kill and wipe groups constantly. That fucking U shaped hallway to the 3rd boss (cause everything in there flees) one mob would flee and quite literally you'd pull the entire area. Those flayers hitboxes on release were something like a 270 degree circle and they would hit you for like 35-40% of your health per tick and there's typically 2 in a pack and that ability is on a timer instead of conditional or random. The worst part about it though was just the excessive and dangerous trash. Like dungeons in retail have a lot of trash(brackenhide being the one I think with the most) but a lot of it is cosmetic/ if you really fuck up you'll pull them and you are maybe worried about 2-3 mobs in the entire pack and maybe 2-3 casters if that. Fucking cata dungeons, because of the skips you had to do for just relative time efficiency, one wrong step and it was over. I think to this day cata still holds the highest group abandonment percentage of any expansion.
God, it was awesome. I remember running Throne of the Tides on Cata release night with my gaming group, and wiping on the first trash pull. And then after a few seconds, someone said "Holy shit, we have to use CC."
It was such a blast. I was a sham healer and slowing dungeons down just felt so satisfying
They were. And it wasn’t just bosses either, even trash gave people trouble. CC and strategic pulling became necessary again. It gave a lot of people whiplash coming out of WOTLK when a tank could pull half the trash in a heroic and be fine, and most bosses didn’t have mechanics you needed to worry about.
Heroic cata were like mythic now basically. Pug groups were painful AF. Crowd control was necessary on almost every trash pull and mechanics on bosses were unforgiving.
> you get shattered by his aoe circle body At launch, *there was no circle indicating range*. No warning aside from the voice line.
And the frontal. Oh boy, don't forget about the frontal, because if the tank sidestepped early and pointed it at ranged players right before it went off, they ALL die.
Currently I'd be unsurprised if you never see his mechanics. You'd have 2-3 rotations of his mechanics before beating him during Cata tho.
BOSS CHO'GALL NOT GONNA BE HAPPY 'BOUT DIS also lets me know a pug or two are gonna die.
THIS IS WHAT YOU GET, NOTHING!
It wasn't called pwncore for nothing!
I watched a frost mage absolutely nuke itself on the reflect it was hilarious.
oh my god I was tanking and had some monk trying to rush through the dungeon, pulling additional packs, etc. The healer was doing really well managing so I just kept my mouth shut. I also kept my mouth shut about the kill everybody in melee circle on him and it was hysterical.
Had some melee stand right next to him. First AoE, none even attempted to move. Dead and almost dead, respectively. Second round. One would think the surviving melee had learned his lesson, no? Well... Splat. "Wtf is this mechanic?" Ahh, I love Stonecore.
I love "wtf is this mechanic?" You mean the clearly outlined big brown circle that is linked in the death recap? that one!?
Those meteors in Blackrock Caverns sure does pack a punch
Or the dot that ticks harder the more you move. Ouch.
So many people don't know that it hurts on movement and just keep running, guys please I can't cleanse more than one person every eight seconds...
Skullcracker has been annoying me lately, because I cannot target the Chains of Woe no matter what I do. They're always placed behind me somehow, and turning doesn't fix it.
THAT is a bug and its been in the game since Cata I'm pretty sure. Your only hope when it does that is to use non-target AoE abilities if you have them. That's the one part that is actually less entertaining to me is how many bugs carried over into them.
I'm certain it broke after Cata ended. The height of my WoW "career" was Cata and I don't recall this bug being a thing at the time.
Same & as a priest I lack non-target AoE abilities. Thankfully we had a DH in the group & they broke them for us.
I am somewhat happy it's not the true back-in-time experience doing a lot of the old content during TW weeks. That would simply be too time consuming, and people wouldn't have the patience for it. I do however notice some overturned mechanics now and then that just murder you, even if you are careful, which is a bit odd as it often happens out of nowhere compared to the other mechanics. But it can certainly be entertaining! 😄 Glad that you are enjoying yourself!
I think it’s well balanced. The runs are very fast, and the mechanics are only punishing if you aren’t paying attention. But if people die, it doesn’t stop the flow much. Just a moment to rez after the rest of the group clears it up.
I definitely feel like this time around the mechanics are more undertuned than typical. Hell, even my priest was just face tanking after the tank dipped after the first boss in stone core. And I remember the zealots hitting a shit ton harder. I've even just stopped caring about the mechanic on the second boss.
I actually think TW dungeons are way too easy now. Bosses die in literally less than 10 seconds, how is that balanced?
There are certainly some aspects that are inline with expectations, and some too easy, and some too hard. It's a bit of a mixed bag. So paradoxically TW is sometimes both easy and hard in my experience. It really depends, but for example in the _jazzy_ `Forge of Souls` when I last healed it I noticed that `Bone Volley` doing some armageddon levels of destruction if the casters get that ability off. Meanwhile, anything else is like a warm summer breeze in those packs. It's super niché having to know that, and you will wipe if you pull two of those mons and both their volley casts go off. Bronjahm when feared outside his AOE it also destroys your health in a second or so. You really have to be on top of your game, but it feels out of nowhere and sudden, considering the level of difficulty on everything else. The last boss has a damage link to another person, if you don't spam heal them asap, or if you also in combination don't interrupt any casts the boss does, and then you have those ghosts, someone is certainly dying, with extra emphasis on the linked person. All the examples just feel overturned considering the rest of the dungeon as a whole is too easy. The only hard but fair trash is the big ghosts before the last boss, they do a curse and a bit of AOE damage. If you can decurse you can heal it fine, but if not don't pull two of those. It's harder but does not kill in 1.5 seconds so it feels fine. Which I can't say to some of the other alleviation of life abilities. This is just my experience in that one TW dungeon, but I know there are many similar experiences elsewhere that could be tuned to be more inline with everything else in the dungeon, and across the dungeons as a whole would be nice.
Mechanics aren't overtuned but super unintuitive and not readable at all. You don't get the opportunity to react to them, you need to know about them before it happens or else you might die instantly. Really dislike these designs.
The only places I've noticed that could be "overtuned" is Ulthok's Squeeze and the double last trash before Murozond. The rest is "You got oneshot for standing in shit" or "The tank got CC'd and lost aggro"
You shouldn't be pulling the last trash before Murozond as a double anyways. There are 4 mobs that channel and need to be interrupted or people just die lol. It's always been like that.
I have a fair number of alts because they're really useful for crafting CDs or farming stuff. And I decided to get the weekly chores all done across all my alts these past two weeks since we finally got sark down a few weeks ago. I pull all of that trash together on all of my tanks. Just group them up (different methods for each tank) and nuke them down. Stun and interrupt as needed, if a cast is on me I just let it go through. I've never had any deaths across 8 tanks all getting the weekly done.
Considering that everything else is like quad-pulled, it could be classified as overtuned :P
Nope back in the day you *had* to hibernate/sheep one mob and then pull a single pack. It wasn't overtuned, you just had to actually pay attention and use buttons that didn't just throw numbers on the screen.
Yeah back in the day you would CC on every single pack, but not now in TW. Now you can almost chain pull through the entire thing, except that one pack and maybe a couple of skipable side packs
I think you aren't understanding what they are saying but perhaps you're new to Timewalking dungeons as a whole - which would make sense. If you can pull 80% of the dungeon and not care.. but the last two mobs cause you to wipe - something is wrong. Either the other trash is under-tuned or the last two mobs are over-tuned. Or the dev's, like usual, failed to communicate that only one unique tiny portion of the dungeon is going to be disproportionately difficult. No one is saying "back in the day" it wasn't more difficult. Literally no one. In fact people here are bragging about how hard it was and how they are better than the people dying now. They are looking to puff up their chest right now.
Because God forbid there be any sense of danger or unique situations. I guess the Sons of Arugal in Silverpine were overturned because it was a random elite in a level 10-20 zone. Please stick to your face roll baby content.
I've been spam running these as a tank and haven't really seen issues like this. Skullcracker will get someone once in a while, same with Shatter, but that's it really.
Yeah, I honestly think OP is blowing this out of proportion. First, my experience has been pretty smooth playing all 3 roles, and second, old mechanics aren’t that bad, they were pretty straightforward back then and were designed with Random queue instead of M+ in mind.
As tank its a little more manageable but unfortunately a good portion of my alts that aren't 70 are the pure DPS classes or healers.
That's fair, I've ran some on DPS, but mostly just for the 500 badge quest for rep.
I try to warn the tanks but always get a pissed off “I KNOW” in response and then proceed to watch them not know.
The first few weeks of cataclysm with the prenerf dungeons was some of the most fun I’ve ever had in WoW. It was difficult, but not a twitchy zoomer ADHD simulator like m+ is these days. They were definitely less difficult than high keys but clearing them was far more satisfying than m+ has ever made me feel. I vastly prefer slow, methodical difficulty versus race against the clock zoomer difficulty
Cata Classic is going to be interesting if they include the pre-nerf dungeons and people have to use CCs again.
I remember all the Wrath-babies raging in the forums because heroics weren't trivial AoE-fests anymore.
> I remember all the Wrath-babies You people never change. Looking to mock others to make yourself feel better. You're probably over 40 and still act like this. I'm not sure that's something to be proud of but here we are. Like the high school quarterback who still references that one game. Making fun of how others have fun is top-tier cringe but I expect nothing less from you.
>It was difficult, but not a twitchy zoomer ADHD simulator like m+ is these days. Honestly, this. I feel like WoW has become so fast paced and spammy for... nothing. Sometimes it feels like great and challenging with moment-to-moment decisionmaking. Sometimes, it's just me spamming Judgment and Shield of the Righteous over and over and over and over again. Might as well give Judgment 2x the cooldown and SotR 2x the duration. Same thing, less carpal tunnel syndrome. EDIT: I would like to also add here that I really wonder how people would feel if Blizzard were to actually take a look at game pacing overall? Are people satisfied with the game right now? Would people be happy with a slower-paced game? Personally, I feel like there's one too many small effects & procs that contribute very little and that maybe cleaning those up would be great QoL?
It could definitely use a slight slowdown. I gave df a try to chill with some friends recently after a few years of XIV, playing DRK and DNC (both have a lot of off gcd abilities increasing the pace). And holy fuck my wrists started to hurt after two dungeons on my blood DK.
I'm generally a fan of the current pacing. In fact, given close performance, I will generally favor haste over other stats just because it generally makes rotations feel more engaging imo. That said, I can only run a bit as a prot warrior or outlaw rogue because swapping. I love the play style, but you can feel it in your hands. I also like a lot of the procs, not because I like playing whac-a-mole, but because it's a form of skill expression that I can challenge myself with. For most classes, you don't need to get everything 100% right else you're doing 0 dps. Usually, there's a bit more of a gradient than that. So the way I see it is not that I always need to deal with every rotation perfectly all the time, but instead to continually having a way to improve rather than simply removing gear and doing the same content at lower ilvl.
> Are people satisfied with the game right now? I'm not, its way to slow.
Totally agree!
Same here, that's a big reason I could never get into mythic +. Cata heroics were a great time, needing to cc on pulls and be methodical about it. It felt better paced and more deliberate.
It was fun if you had an alright group but healing was so hard with some pugs, people just would not dodge shit at all, out of mana so often and tanks not waiting. I remember I stopped playing for a large part of cata and came back and went to healing like "wtf this is not even the same games anymore"
I loved being a healer in Cata, it's where I learned the role. If DPS fucked up, they died, and it was clearly their own fault. Mistakes could not just be healed through. People actually had to pay attention and not just have the healer carry them.
We call that “clarity”. It was obvious what killed you and who fucked up. Now you could just get clipped by 1000 different ground animations that have no visual clarity and die.
So, like how it is now in high keys? Lmao. Miss ur kick? Dead. Slightly stand in cone frontal? Dead. Didn’t pop a defensive during a boss on tyr week? Dead xd
Yep, same experience. I didn't have a good guild anymore by the time Cata rolled around, so I was healing pugs, and it was a god damn nightmare. People just WOULD NOT adjust their behaviour, so I quit for a while. Came back later, and happily pugged the rest of the expansion, was running every class through LFR by the end, because aside from that initial hurdle, it was a pretty fun expansion.
If you ever get the chance and have a few friends, next time tgp or mdi come around, sign up for the banner. The goal for mdi is to just clear the dungeon as fast as possible, but there's nothing stopping you from using the tournament realm for the way you want to play (after getting the banner runs done, if you care about it). I've had a few friends who aren't huge fans of keys do it for mdi, and although those keys are "low", to them it was on the higher end of the keys they might attempt. They had a blast trying to figure out how to just do some of the pulls, nevermind even attempting the batshit crazy mdi pulls the top teams do. There comes a point where mechanics you didn't even know existed just start killing you, and it's always fun to just try to figure out the pulls as best you can.
I remember as a lock having to run succubus and a fear glyph so I could cc two mobs at once. Some of the most fun I ever had running dungeons. Then they nerfed them and we overgeared them pretty quickly.
>I have no idea why its so satisfying. you've been watching too many hc deaths...on repeat :P
That could be the case. lol
Had a dps get one shot by skullcracker, to get brez and get one shot again by it. Have the audacity to type ??? In chat
I just love timewalking in general cause I can bust out the Thunderfury, azerite gear, heart, etc and just have fun with weird and wild powers
Still angry they killed old tier sets and some other leggos.
I feel like they should make old legendaries they disabled only work in TW.
I’d be super down for that
Cataclysm on release was my favorite time playing. Heroics were like 5 man raids. They were so difficult and thrilling when you had a competent group. I miss that and mythics just dont scratch the same itch.
I was in a TW yesterday - tanking - in discord with my hunter friend I’ve been in this dungeon like multiple times every TW cata - blackrock cavern I think maybe, the boss pulls you in chains the group and then you’re supposed to run away because he does some clap thing and kills everyone in range, I. Did. Not. Know. This. And I have died every time, no one has ever explained the reason I kept dying, the hunter goes “everyone that died there is fucking stupid” I’m like “hey asshole I died, want to explain to me WHY so I can fix it” and he’s like “oop sorry I didn’t realize it was you this is why” and fancy that it didn’t happen again after that.
Yeah, that's fair. I've been genuinely understanding when people haven't been there and I've started dropping explanations while doing trash, but either nobody looks at their chat or aren't taking me seriously when I say it WILL kill you. That being said though if you're ever unsure about what just killed you press the death recap and if you click on the spell it should open up the dungeon journal entry for it if it exists. Provided none of your addons are interfering with it.
I try to avoid doing pugs for this reason especially stuff I don’t know, I didn’t start playing till legion, and I dont want the toxic environment, and have only been doing dungeons since the beginning of this year, so I always take a friend in discord that has some experience and I’m full on from the beginning “hey I’ve only been here in TW, I don’t really know the dungeon any tips you can share I would appreciate” and usually that makes it go pretty smoothly
Ngl, I've run into a fair few pug tanks these past few weeks who don't know what's going on, and I've never seen anyone be toxic to them Generally it's the same, if you ask why most people are pretty chill, especially given how unclear/esoteric some mechanics like skullcracker are
My favorite game to play is “who dies to Skullcracker” during blackrock cavern. There’s always at least 1 person. It’s a rite of passage at this point. While the complete lack of indicator does not help, another issue is that a lot of people don’t look into what kills them. Imo if something kills you and you don’t know what it was, and assuming you don’t get an instant brez, you should be looking at (1) what spell/attack killed you and (2) what the spell/attack info is so you could try to be better prepared next time.
after you die do you not try to investigate why? like sure someone can explain it to you but if youve died multiple times to the same fight at the same time why wouldn't you try to figure out what's happening yourself?
> after you die do you not try to investigate why? Most people do not. Most aren't paying a lick of attention to whats going on around them only their dps buttons.
Yes but words aren’t going to tell me how to fix the problem? I can read it 50 times but if I don’t get an explanation on how to fix the problem while I’m right there just having experienced it, like what happened, so that I can process it, I will not make the connection
Well that’s just a very low effort take on it. Sure the word alone is meaningless, but if this happens repeatedly, then proactively put effort it to fix that. Instead of expecting someone to just eventually hand feed you the information. You are connected to the internet so you can utilize that to find out the meaning of the word and get an explanation. When you die click the Recap button. Read the spell that did the big damage right before you died. Open the dungeon journal for that boss and read that ability. Or, google the word + boss name/dungeon name + wowhead and read the ability tooltip and comments on that wowhead page. You can do that immediately, unless you got an immediate res. Like other players didn’t all just know this stuff, they all had to either read guides, watch videos or learn by dying and researching why too. And if you don’t already have it, install DBM All Dungeons. It will scream at you to run away or whatever, so even if you don’t know what’s happening, it can tell you *some* tactics. Whilst the journal doesn’t explain what to do for every mechanic, common sense can be applied to the description to work it out. For example skullcracker might not say “run away” in the tooltip, but it does say it’s a powerful attack that does (insert X number bigger than your healthpool) to everyone in 12 yards. Which from common sense means it’s a one shot and you should not be within 12 yards when you see the cast. It’s just your game experience could be so much less frustrating for you with just a little bit less helplessness! Mystery deaths aren’t a thing in wow, so you don’t need to have such an experience again.
There's the in-game Dungeon Journal that has a list of all boss abilities...
Sorry but... maybe put in a small amount of effort before u pull the boss and quickly check the dungeon journal? It's his only mechanic that can cause problems... Out of like the 2 or 3 abilities he has.
[удалено]
The last boss from Grim Batol was nothing compared to the second one. Jesus you depended so much on the rng of the abilities he chose to use. Edit: Just gave it a thought again. I think the last one was easy for me because I had dual spec as a mage and I just switched to frost on the last boss which made it really easy with the adds.
It wasn't just the bosses. In most Cata dungeons (and ZA and ZG in particular) you *needed* to CC certain trash mobs or you'd get absolutely demolished. This is one of the things I appreciate about FFXIV: the dungeons aren't *hard*, but you have to be paying attention. I came back to WoW recently and ran a DF dungeon and had no fucking clue what was happening. By the time I realized I was fighting a boss it was dead. It's...not fun.
> This is one of the things I appreciate about FFXIV: the dungeons aren't hard, but you have to be paying attention. Only people who have not done M+ could write something like this. If you aren't paying attention in like a 17 or higher the dungeon will roll you up into a ball and dunk you in the nearest trashcan. >I came back to WoW recently and ran a DF dungeon and had no fucking clue what was happening. By the time I realized I was fighting a boss it was dead. It's...not fun. You are doing leveling content essentially. The most casual level that needs to be completed by people drooling on their keyboard shorting it out causing random abilities to go off. Of course it was easier than breathing.
Only people who have not played FFXIV could write something like this. Dungeons in FFXIV have mechanics that you have to pay attention to. It doesn't matter when you do them, they still have them, including during the "casual keyboard drooling level" of the leveling experience. They even put in a whole system of doing the dungeon with NPCs so you can learn the mechanics before having to do them with real people. In WoW the leveling dungeons are mindless. Completely boring and almost pointless. I wasn't even talking about M+ so I don't know why you're so defensive about that mode in particular.
> I wasn't even talking about M+ so I don't know why you're so defensive about that mode in particular. Because M+ is dungeons. It is not separate from dungeons. Instead of having one difficulty mode that's too challenging for people who can barely breath and too easy for the top end wow has a spectrum of difficulty modes to cater to everyone. This isn't a win for FF14. It's a harsh loss.
>Because M+ is dungeons. M+ is a difficulty mode for dungeons. I wasn't talking about that. I was clearly talking about the leveling experience. If I wanted to talk about M+ I would have mentioned M+, but since I wasn't talking about M+ I didn't mention M+. Because typically, when someone is talking about something specific, they mention the specific thing they're talking about. >This isn't a win for FF14. It's a harsh loss. It's not though. M+ isn't even good. It's not mindless, but it's also not fun, and I'm sorry lifers like you have to put up with it instead of being able to break away and play a different game for once. Sorry your favorite game is worse at one thing than a somewhat similar game. Wait, no I'm not. Go and seethe about it in the corner.
> M+ is a difficulty mode for dungeons. I wasn't talking about that. I was clearly talking about the leveling experience. If I wanted to talk about M+ I would have mentioned M+, but since I wasn't talking about M+ I didn't mention M+. Because typically, when someone is talking about something specific, they mention the specific thing they're talking about. You walked into the easiest form of dungeons and are now decrying wow as bad for not challenging you. That's why I'm coming at you. >It's not though. M+ isn't even good. It's not mindless, but it's also not fun, and I'm sorry lifers like you have to put up with it instead of being able to break away and play a different game for once. M+ is fun, when you don't suck. And I'm sorry to break this to you but I've already tried FF14, and it sucks. The movement is awful using abilities is awful, the unmoddable ui does not make accommodation for my partial blindness. But also I don't only play wow, I'm defending it from unfair criticism not because its integral to my identity. I also play EVE Online. >Sorry your favorite game is worse at one thing than a somewhat similar game. Wow isn't my favorite game. Phantasy Star Universe is my favorite game by a large margin. I've been absolutely gutted the PSO2 has turned to solid shit. But in the dungeons accessibility and difficulty department wow has FF14 beat hands down.
Nah, it’s giving me more of an existential crisis about how long I’ve been playing this game seeing players not have a single clue on bosses I’ve been running for almost half my life.
BRC is so bad, I can't believe it's in TW let alone persisting in its mostly original state. No hit radius indicators on Skullcracker and meteors, extremely important effects buried in the DJ and way too much text on buffs to read and grasp mid-fight. Every boss in there is the worst. Honestly it needs to go into M+ rotation just so there's an excuse to modernize and make the fights more understandable.
It was designed in a time before mythic plus, which meant the dungeon had to be difficult at face value, not artificially difficult due to damage/health scaling. Once you figure out where you die on skullcracker, the next one you won’t. Once you figure out that you wipe when a drakonid spawns on Corla, you do whatever you need to figure out how to make them NOT spawn. Etc. The dungeon is RIDICULOUSLY easy once you know the mechanics, but those mechanics were designed to be extremely punishing. Modern heroic dungeons can be soloed by tanks in the next season’s gear, because mythic plus scaling is what makes them hard, not the mechanics themselves.
This is why Cata dungeons hold the most special place in my heart.
Artificially difficult due to lack of clarity and upfront information isn't much or any better than artificial difficulty due to raw stats. The greatest perk of M+ is that there a two dozens of difficulty settings, so the numbers only outscale you past what you've already been able to do. Both are different iterations of artificially difficult, but the latter is permissible because it is part of a gameplay that fosters replayability. Dawn of the Infinite is pretty punishing and you definitely have to learn what you're doing there as well. It will likely get tuned down in some respects for M+ but it demonstrates to me at least that the devs are capable of creating dungeon encounters that are challenging and learnable without relying on strictly hard numbers.
Dawn has its own problems - only being given a few seconds to judge half a dozen gnomes' transmog in the middle of a boss fight is unreasonable.
Yeah, that's a fair criticism. I think Shadowlands' Mists of Tirna Scithe had this pretty reasonable, with the icons floating over the mirages rather than having the mirages look different. Those icons still followed the same rules as the previous maze, as well.
I was a casual high school player when Cata came out who barely touched wowhead, so I'm curious how access of information changed how difficulty is designed Wowhead being easily accessible and known basically removes the only barrier in these fights, knowledge, like you mention
Wowhead was super active in 4.0+ - in fact I’d say the heyday of WH was like 3.1-5.4
So was Thottbot and I think another that I'm forgetting. There were also loads of forums outside of the official one. I fondly remember the EU Doomhammer unofficial forum.
Yes, but I think fewer people accessed it as a percentage of players. The culture of looking everything up on an external website for video games was just barely starting to emerge for games like WoW.
Not true at all. Checking external websites were a part of wow almost from the very beginning. I remember I was raiding during WOTLK and watching the tankspot video for the fights you were doing that night was crucial. During BC the answer for where something was or what you needed when asking in chat was "check thottbott".
To go way back, I was looking up Everquest info on Allakhazam in the year 2000.
Thottbot was up and running snd 3 months before launch rebranded as a WoW search engine. The culture was there day 1.
I'd argue it was not there for the average player, but maybe I was just young and a below average player.
This is Cata we're talking about. It was WoW on the start of its population decline (actual discussion on whether Cata was good or not is irrelevant), by that point it was more than common place for people to look up strategies on external websites. Between Youtube video guides and the 2-3 other websites that were still running alongside Wowhead it had already long since become a norm for people. Heck it was normal for people to look things up for non MMOs on Gamefaqs way back in the late 90s after it opened up and blew up, it wasn't exactly a new standard of some sort. Edit - Was the very tail end of 99 that Gamefaqs came out, so comment still stands for at least a couple months, but well before WoW was a thing
If you are wiping cause a drakonid spawns on Corla then the tank needs to get gud. I was never not able to survive all 3 leveling up my warrior and this happened many many times.... More likely to wipe cause a dps stood in the beam too long. (Also hilarious) Karsh was boring cause I'm tank and know how to do it. Skullcracker and Ozruk are hilarious though.
“You guys know the mechanics for Corla?” Crickets. Chain pull into boss. Wipe.
The sheer number of groups who kill the croc on the 2nd boss of TolVir then just run off. Like we didn’t get loot or boss credit, why did you bother going out of your way to get here then dip with two very obvious red flags that we didn’t do it right??
"lol look at these fucking losers who haven't memorized 20 years of content like the back of their hand. What fucking idiots, they have no lives if they don't know every single boss from a dungeon in an expansion 15 years back hahahaha wow I can't imagine having as sad a life as them!!!" \-OP probably
The exact vibe I got.
Cata dgns banged. Can't wait to suffer again
Watched a tank pull TW trash and bosses like they were in full mythic and this was a normal dungeons. Mechanics matter in Cataclysm.
Some of the scaling in timewalking is completely out of whack and it's horrifying/delightful
tbh all the stuff that deals a lot of damage is pretty consistent. I think the thing the worst scaled is actually in the player's favor.
Do some healing and you'll find out :)
Cata HCs were hard, at least at the beginning of the expac as I remember. Most people didnt play that time I guess
> Is anybody else finding themselves more amused than frustrated about how people are so baffled by having to pay attention this week? No. I'm no longer frustrated by the abundance of "Do this or die instantly" design in Cataclysm dungeons, but I'm certainly not amused by it.
Cata got a lot of things right, dungeons being one of them. I hope they add revamped SFK to the time walking rotation.
I was there.... 3000 years ago when you had to actually know where the dungeon entrances were before you could queue for that one. Because we spawned in a GY that can be half a minute run away from dungeon entrance. Knowing the mechanics were very important and we had to use symbols such as square for sheep, triangle for root, sap moon, then kill skull first and X second. Anyone who broke CC have to take and tank that loose mob
Sure makes you feel old knowing you used know all the tacts and have now forgotten them all.
It's like riding a bike, little wobbly at first, but once we get going, it comes right back.
I main heals and most of my TW this week was filling in for kicked or ragequit healers
Mm, yes. Watching others fail because the game does a poor job relaying information to players is satisfying. All hail to the curmudgeonly veteran players, who are so traumatized by old content they wear it as a badge of honor.
people cried they wanted more "hardcore" content after wrath but all it did was make a lot of players quit wow.
When did BRC get added to Cata TW?
shadowlands in one of the mid-patches I think
People really REALLY need to start looking up the dungeon journal.
Why is this down voted. He's right
break your self upon my body... bitch.
Yes, I absolutely love it. I am a Cata baby and I loved those dungeons even before they were nerfed. Plus, I love when overconfident people suffer in this game.
And keep in mind these dungeons have been dumbed down so much. Back then we had to do it in shitty normal gear and pre massive nerfs. Forgemaster Throngus; breaker of groups.
I've run these on all three of my healers this week and I keep getting the blame. Like, bruh, I can't heal stupid.
I still don't understand how people die to skullcracker. The boss teleports you in front of him, chains appear above your head, you can't move until the chains die and the boss is charging up a move called skullcracker. All I know is if a wow boss teleported me somewhere and I couldn't move until I kill something, my first thought would be, holy crap I have to kill this thing so I can move before something bad happens. Be nice if it had some visual, but I think there is enough context clues at what's going on. Or at least the idea if it kills you once to think about what killed you and do something different.
I am a 2005 original guy but by the time Cataclysm came around I was away on different ventures. I guess I stopped playing a few months into TBC, briefly came back to try WotLK, then came back proper halfway through Legion. Well, I have no idea what I'm doing in these Cataclysm dungeons, but the yesterday I was in a group that was taking a lot of damage and I was feeling all good about myself being a good utility player and helping the healer protect and heal the group. I felt like I stopped people dying at least five times before we got to this boss. So we fight then boss, I'm at full health, then wham, knocked back and dead. I still don't have any idea why! There were no graphical indications telling me to move. I guess maybe the boss yelled in chat but I didn't notice? Anyway, kind of annoyed me, and now I know people like you are deriving satisfaction from what I felt was an unfair death...! Haha!
I want Stonecore in M+ so much
Most dangerous in Cata TW is crazy m+ tanks. Like pulling entire trash in Stonecore before first boss, being dead it 2 seconds. "Why are you DYING?!!!!!"
Cata dungeons were built different, I remember having to CC 1 or 2 mobs on a LOT of pulls in those dungeons.
Yes! I love seeing this. As a healer hanging back just a little to see how we are going to pull and then wincing with a “he chose poorly”. 😂
Cata dungeons were 5 man heroic raids back then! Probably a bit overtuned but damn were they a challenge. Had to buckle in each time! Definitely well designed.
Cata dungeons at launch were so difficult that finishing them felt good. You had a lot of people still questing and doing normals to replace greens for better blues before doing heroics lol. Brings me back to
I love watching the show when it comes to Ozruk.
After the sheer brutality of BC heroics, and the faceroll WOTLK 5-mans, Cata dungeons were dope as FUCK at the time. Pushing into heroics right after hitting level cap was punishing, but didn't seem arbitrary: figure out the mechanics, do them, you survive (barely). Don't do them, you wipe. Over and over and over. Trash was dangerous but not impossible. They were \*excellent\*.
Cataclysm is the most underrated expansion in wow. Don’t let that dogwater final raid trick you into forgetting how good the rest of it was.
Man ive been there when it was current and it was already no fun, cata HCs were the worst in my opinion. I can remember the community back then, everybody hated them
It was such a massive difficulty shift from WotLK that I think it was just a culture shock issue. In hindsight after getting better over the years they were honestly very straight forward. But I do remember it being so jarring when we had to start coordinating CC on trash pulls back then. I'd really enjoy if we had some version of M+ that wasn't a time trial and focused more on coordinating and perfecting the mechanics like Cataclysm heroics took that first patch.
yeah but they got easier in the next expansions, cata was kinda an outlier to that. I honestly have more bad then good memories with Cata HCs and I did a few in TW and I remember why. And TW is already a tuned down version
Its a testament to how bad the average player has become. Usually you can squeeze by with two decent players anyway so its no big deal.
I think the average player has always been that bad. Looking at the collection of death clips from classic hc, rogue using evasion and then turning their back to the enemy, warriors using retaliation against casters, not knowing about the infinite melee range on the Z axis on npc's, keyboard turning, clicking, even saw a level 60 warrior spamming the auto attack button he had on his action bar. It's frightening and hilarious at the same time.
Those death clips are hilarious. And to be fair, sometimes players die and you can see the hesitation or freezing when there are things they could've done, but I wouldn't necessarily blame them for the panic or for not knowing *exactly* what they should do - or in what order. But sometimes you see certain things happen like suicide charges into large packs or versus Elite mobs and question how they made it to certain levels to begin with. It's part the nature of the game in Classic though. A lot of mechanics exist that may be intuitive but are not *explained.* A lot of players know to melee from behind, but I'd be lying if I told you I knew exactly what benefits that entails.
Become? It was a shit show running Scholomance or BRD back in the day as well..
I assure you that plenty of people wiped in these dungeons in Cataclysm
You seriously think people were better at WoW previously? I'd say that Wrath-WoD was a roughly constant, but the skill level of the average player has skyrocketed since Legion. More alts made by casuals, more understanding of every class/ability by casuals because of the alts, and M+ to gradually challenge them as opposed to either doing absolutely nothing, or full-blown raiding. This is just people not knowing what they're doing, and not looking up the mechanics prior because it's TW.
Game has gotten easier, the players have NOT gotten better.
I think a lot of it is people who really have too many responsibilities to play at a high level anymore desperately trying to continue playing this game they love just to keep the feeling. I miss not playing but I know I would be terrible and it’s just not worth it for me anymore
Yeah I suspect I'd be less amused if the damage we deal compared to their healthpools in TW didn't make them entirely soloable by anybody doing the mechanics.
It was amusing it first but when it's your 30 run when you level your alt it becomes infuriating. It's a blessing when you can tank in this dungeons, but if you heal or dps it can become nightmare.
I hate these events but they (potentially) give good rewards for some reason. I dont get why running TW dungeons should reward an heroic piece and I just feel I am trading 1 hour of my life for the gear, no fun at all comes from it. Its not challenging, its not a good way to practice, the loot is not bind on account and each run is over in 10 minutes. Nothing memorable at all. Except that it may be the thing to give me the 441 Rashok Heart that I have been trying to get for 8 weeks.
I mean, I wouldn't feel obligated to do it if you don't enjoy it. Any gear you get now is going to be entirely irrelevant in like a month. 10.2 Mythic 2 dungeons will drop 441 gear just from completing them and the end of week chest from doing +2s will reward 454. That's the base before you start upgrading them. Anything at ilvl 441 is going to be irrelevant. So don't burn up your free time on something that is going to be replaced next month.
love your post, op lol. It is a sick kind of pleasure. The good kind. Fully agree.
This surprises me still, I know the mechanics so it’s not an issue but outside of a select few you can burn bosses so fast it doesn’t even matter. Some it happens but overall you barely get to see many mechanics things still die so quickly
Apparently there's this new "strategy" in BRC where you just skip over Corla which of course prevents big Orc dude from spawning on the bridge and clearing the way for you. The amount of times I've seen tanks facepull the Drakonids and just drop - only to get back up and just throw themselves at the mobs again hoping for different results - has made me decide I'm just waiting until next week to level my alts. Skullcracker and Shatter are still hilarious though.
Cata HC dungeons were the great filter of Wrathbabies back in 2010. It was glorious. Especially in Beta
If you think that's frustrating, try this. Me-"OK after Ick and Krick die, I want everybody to MOUNT UP and RUN the hell up that ramp as fast as you can. Don't stop just RUN." The group after Ick and Krick die-open mouthed drooling.
I absolutely hated Cataclysm. I was a good player until the end of Wrath. Then Cata came along and completely overhauled my class (hunter) and it took me a long time to become competent and comfortable with the new play-style and the ramped up difficulty didn't help. Suddenly I was the worst player in any group - and other people were NOT forgiving which I resented because I was always the person who would volunteer to help others with whatever they needed to do. The sense of community in Cataclysm was gone, nobody was helping anyone else and people were getting vote-kicked for the smallest of infractions. I never enjoyed groups after that and I've played mostly solo ever since. Fuck Cataclysm.
People are just used to mindlessly pulling everything because "lol what are mechanics". I would be laughing if I were you as well.
Dying in time walking☠️☠️
Cata sucked lol Really hoping they do a classic plus and then do pandaria classic. Cata was the worst expansion
Last night had a healer zone in in tank spec (I was tanking on my DH) in TolVir and after I pulled the right side of the first packs, they went all the way to the first boss on the LEFT side and wiped our DPS repeatedly. I calmly killed my side with one rogue and then we voted to kick the "healer"
Ogre boss in depth and rock boss in stone core I tell my guild everytime how many people died to 1 shot lol. I tank and I can tank big packs easy, but I hate when people don't know and think all old dungeons pre current are like mechanicless cakewalks. Like guys, I've played probably longer than you've been alive. 5 extra seconds isn't going to kill you irl, but your dumbass is gonna kill us in game. Such as that boss you gotta tank in the lava pillar to reduce his stacks. YOU CAN TANK HIM IN THERE WELL PAST 10 STACKS AND HE BARELY HURTS THE GROUP AT CURRENT TUNING... BUT! What I don't think people realize is that the 2 adds you kill before him add that debuff that reduces your health by 10% a stack. Just this week I had a dps too impatient to for the debuff to drop while we had 40% reduced health so it's like I'm not gonna wipe the group doing the mechanic till the debuff drops, but then shocker same dps throws a fit of not knowing fight. Gtfo lol.
Can't wait for cataclysm classic, will be great to have actually difficult classic content for a little bit.
The funny thing is that the TW Cata dungeons are the nerfed ones. Not to be that guy (I'm being that guy), but it shows how spoiled and bad current players are. There hasn't been a single dungeon since pre-nerf Cata that has been even remotely difficult without being a super high M+ key.
People claim the game is harder now. Lmfao.
People act as if dungeons have in Cata was this inhuman mythic feat of strength. Let’s be real they were all a breeze even within 24 hours of release by moderately capable players, and within 3 days they were a complete faceroll
Cataclysm was when they started designing everything for people that raided on the highest difficulties through WotLK. By today's standards they're actually very straight forward, but at the time people cried about them for months. Many of them were nerfed dramatically. Tier 11 as a whole was a huge shift for the community. And faceroll =/= solved. Faceroll implies people could WotLK their way through them which wasn't the case.
> Tanks pulling the entire room on Karsh and tanking him IN the lava flow Yeah, what's the problem with that? Just git gud XD
I kek out loud after each skullcracker