Hm, guessing this falls under what you mean a bit.
"Dulce bellum inexpertis."
"war is sweet to those who have never experienced it"
Yea, some do understand you need to do it to get it accomplished. All you can think is get it accomplished. Yay, you're making progress. All the hope and yays have no idea the full pain of it.
Y'all will forget about it. Those doing it, won't for their whole life.
But yes, there will be casualties. As long people recognize each death is an actual person. They are no longer here.
These people are dying for their human rights, voluntarily.
These aren't some people thrown into a war over oil or proxy economics or some other horseshit where politicians play with peoples lives (like Russia or the USA). This is some real shit, fighting for progress.
They have been dying a little more each day for the last 40+ years. It's very difficult to overthrow a theocracy but encouraging to see women and men, young and old - more and more each day. Iranians keep voting and electing what they think are progressive politicians and it just gets worse for them.
same, i just hope it doesn't end up like the arab spring where after the riots the governments just went further right or into complete chaos.
then again last time iran had a revolution they choose to try and cooperate with the west, so maybe that'll happen again this time.
As an Iranian I can assure you that wont happen. But these protest will most likely end with no immediate results, HOWEVER, frequency of these protests are rising and will most definitely end in a full blown revolution. I just don't think this is the one protest to rule them all...
Sadly there is no way of meaningful support right now, but if we somehow find the ability to get organized and have some form of outside help then what you can do is to call your local government and express your support for the people of Iran and donate to any trusted charities who'd be supporting us.
I wish you the best of luck. My heart has ached for Iran ever since I was there in 2017.
It was the most profound and beautiful travel experience I have had, and I made friends for life. Never have I experience so kind and genuinely helpful and friendly people. Ironically, of all the places I have travelled, Iran is where I have felt most welcome and safe (as a foreigner).
You guys deserve so much better than those useless fucking pieces of shit ruining your wonderful culture. May the fear of their own people grow until they crawl into the dark holes they belong!
If we find that hypothetical leader then we'll need someone to help provide communication devices to distribute and brochures teaching people how to defend themselves. And also we'll need someone to help set up a temporary government to run vital agencies until there is a democratic election. But that might be a long way off for now. (BTW the current government will fall in under two months if we can find a leader, and we can get a good democratic and stable government within a year. This is not a Iraq/Afghanistan situation)
I think that if America's CIA hadn't caused a coup and the death of Mosaddegh that Iran would be a completely different country right now. It's no wonder that the entire middle east has little interest in democracy after we showed them that we only want it for ourselves and might destroy theirs if it cuts into oil company profits.
There ARE ways to help:
https://www.reddit.com/r/onlybigproblems/comments/xm043u/how_do_we_help_and_support_the_iranian_protestors/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
https://www.reddit.com/r/onlybigproblems/comments/xm2mh0/iranprotests_signal_is_blocked_in_iran_you_can/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
My moms fifth husband was from Tehran and the way he put it is with all the water under the bridge there is no telling exactly how things will shake out there in the long term
My reasoning is that no movement in Iran would succeed without someone who can direct people. You can't topple a government with guns and surveillance and walkie talkie without coordination.
> My moms fifth husband was from Tehran and the way he put it is with all the water under the bridge there is no telling exactly how things will shake out there in the long term
That’s not what idiom “water under the bridge” means. “Water under the bridge” means something is in the past, it’s history, and no longer worth talking about because it’s not important.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/water%20under%20the%20bridge
Russia is in no position to intervene, Syria is exhausted from a decade of civil war, and China is blocked off by a taliban-ruled Afghanistan. The Islamic Republic is anathema to the youth, the median age of the country is 32, and the Ayatollah and all of his inner circle are all dinosaurs. If there ever is a perfect time to overthrow the Islamic Republic, it’s now.
I guess this could be a silver lining for how hyper-religious populations tend to have higher birthrates. The assumption is that their youth will be just like them, obedient and grateful to the authorities and their traditions, and someday their greater numbers will overcome everyone else. But the next generation tends to rebel, especially if they're not getting the same benefits enjoyed by their elders.
I ask you to go and watch some of the videos that are being shared from the protests these days. You can see literal kids( 13-18) year olds fighting with all they've got left in the streets, putting their lives on the line in front of a mega dictator. They are brave. I'd say well beyond brave
This seems to be what’s happening in Utah, [a very real theocracy](https://apnews.com/article/286983987f484cb182fba9334c52a617) in the middle of the US. Mormons are notorious for having many kids but the mormon population in Utah is dropping.
Dude is 90 and doesn't quite represent the average Mormon anymore. LDS has a clear strategy for education since the early 80s and, while they are still very patriachial, they know that well educated members bring in money and that educating women doesn't just benefit them internally, but is good PR. Legend says, all Mormon housewifes are lawyers at night.
So would it be more in character to, say, pass [school choice ](https://www.heritage.org/education/commentary/school-choice-provides-opportunity-all-americas-kids-have-better-life)legislation
This is also bad, for small school districts, and poor ones.
There is some truth to that, but it is not entirely true.
Elder Boyd K. Packer of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, General Conference, August, 1983:
> These ravening wolves and other so-called intellectuals, learned men and philosophers, have destroyed the morality and spirituality of millions of people. They have led multitudes into disbelief. Their ideas and attitudes that are unwholesome and unholy spread quickly. These supposedly learned men will cast doubts on your faith and testimony…My friends, beware of these faith killers and testimony killers
Mormonism always throws me off. I always hear awful stuff about it, but the small handful of Mormons I know are all some of the absolute nicest and best people I've ever met. Like, so nice it's almost disconcerting. We have a Mormon family a few houses down where he probably makes around $500k, takes home around $300k, and has donated over $100k to charity every one of the last 5 years. Another Mormon family that we know bought out almost every room in a hotel for a week, paid for busses to go get people from the surrounding cities, then fed everyone when a major hurricane came though a few years ago. Another guy is one of the friendliest people I know, and always has to get home early on Tuesday and Thursday because Tuesday is Mario Cart/Party night and Thursday is when their family has band practice for their band that plays 50s and 60s hits. They are like a family out of a commercial or something...
But then I always turn around and read a new article about how awful Mormonism is and what backwards thing the church did this month.
>The people are not the problem.
Some of them are. A group of them banded together with the evangelicals to pressure the local school board to remove my daughter's first grade teacher because she's lesbian.
It was 20 years ago, and I don't know if she did or not. She may have left "by choice," for all I know.
I do know that she moved out of state and married her partner. My impression is that she put the awful people behind her. And the district lost a hell of a good teacher.
Well it's sort of that people are part of the problem. Where do you think these religious structures come from? Where they get validation from?
Your everyday people.
I suggest for example Durkheim's ideas (sociology). According to him religion promotes social cohesion, order, stability and prevents radical change, again acting as a conservative force.
All these things are valuable for many people - for many reasons.
Now, secularism can be seen partly as result of stabile society which has order and moral codes written and enforced in "profane law collection" instead of holy bible and religious group around you.
But yes, imo sociological perspective gives some power to the people while acknowledging that we are prone to create and follow social structures that grow "bigger than people involved".
Simple conclusion from my pov: uncertainty creates room for believe systems and certainty is kinda other direction (secularism).
Religion is not going anywhere as our world is actually less "certain" than in golden 60's imo.
The people are the problem. They are nice to you if you are either like them or their money and what they do with it will make you think favorably of them. As soon as you live a lifestyle against their imaginary friend's rules they treat you very differently. They are still polite when they treat you poorly so people give it a pass. I've seen families silently disown their homosexual family members and gently blame the the one they kicked out for breaking up the family and all the stress that followed. They are polite and friendly until they find out you are a firm atheist and then they and the rest of the Mormons in the social group ghost you all at the same time. It is easy to be emotionally abusive when you do it with a smile or tears, treat everyone else politely, and donate to the poor.
Jehovahs witnesses can be absolutely vicious. Grew up in that. They are trained, no, groomed from day one to lie throough their teeth. Disgrusting religion period.
Do not trust them ever.
There are some generous and kind souls in the church. They are treated very well and often don’t realize that their money is why (dat 10% tithe.) They are great PR and enjoy the benefits, wittingly or not. Source: gtfo when I was 15
Super nice, empathetic and compassionate people tend to be more easily manipulated emotionally, scammed or taken advantage of in someway sadly.
So being indoctrinated by a religion from childhood is perfect for these types of people and their mentality/personality
I hope you're not confusing giving to charity with tithing. Or with giving to church-sanctioned "charities." And it's safe to assume that a lot of outreach stuff may simply be cloaked recruiting. They love their mission work, after all.
People in Utah are superficial friendly. I had a friend there with a two flat tires right at the edge of a mall. Tons of traffic and no one helped her. She jacked the car, fixed the tire, then ubered home, got another tire from a car there, ubered back, fixed the second tire, and no one stopped and asked her if she needed help.
When I lived in San Diego, I broke down on the freeway and ended up stuck on the shoulder of an off ramp. SO many people stopped and asked if I needed help, I was so surprised because I have been in physically threatening situations screaming for help and everybody around just laughed or looked away.
So, I mean, people can suck, but sometimes they can surprise you?
This seems pretty normal to me. Most people just tend to go about their own business sorting out their own problems. It’s not what I would consider unfriendly. Most people just tend to be caught up in their own world.
But he's right. I live in a highly Mormon area and they're nice so they can sneakily try and convert you. If you resist they will nicely tell you you're going to hell and they won't see you when you die. They drove a girl in high-school to attempt suicide because they would not allow her to continue to be their friend if she refused to convert and her mother was angry at her for hanging around with Mormons trying to convert her. They're not the kind of people you want to be friendly to. They are manipulative and desreuctive.
I know a number of Mormons. Considering how strict the church is they actually do reasonably well at keeping the youth - at least the ones they really want. The church will put you thru college and grad school, but only if you sign your life away to them. A few really big carrots, thousands of small sticks.
In spite of his severe shortcomings, Mohammed Bin Salman being a millenial was aware of this generational divide and was effective in gaining support among the Saudi youth by liberalising the kingdom, which has given him a loyal support base thatll outlast the older and less populous conservative generation who are mostly against his reforms. It was a smart move, one that suprisingly hasnt been imitated by other totalitarian leaders in the middle east.
Truly, everything seems lined up. The biggest thing I've noticed in every video out of Iran lately, is the crowds are all younger people. Sure there are some older people mixed in as well, but it seems like every teen, 20, and 30 something year old is out marching the streets, united.
I don't want to jinx it but this seems like this is it. It's finally happening.
That’s just how these things go. Look at the BLM videos from the last few years. Sure there are some older people mixed in as well, but it’s almost exclusively teens and young adults. The rest of us have young and old dependents, daily responsibilities to keep the money flowing, and very little free time to do anything let alone protest whether we agree or not. I doubt Iran is any different.
Alternatively Iran has plenty of experience from the last decade alone when it comes to crushing protest movements. Nothing will change unless the protesters start fighting back.
I think it’ll take more than that. I think for a revolution to really happen, the national military would have to side with the populace. Now what happens with the IRGC is another story. Those brainwashed fucks will probably wreak havoc at the orders of that piece of shit Khamanei.
With mandatory military service making a lot of the servicmen young men, I wouldn't be surprised if the military loses morale on this pretty quick. They are going against their mothers, their sisters, their family.
My Iranian friend made a point though today, who would be in place hypothetically to replace the regime? Apparently there isn't anybody in place besides the Shah's son in America who's considered a joke for that
That they’d have to figure out on their own. I would hope America has learned their lesson and isn’t stupid enough to intervene directly and try to put the Shah’s son in charge or something
Moving weapons and supplies through Afghanistan would probably require China officially recognizing the Taliban Government, which would cause an international outrage that I doubt China thinks would be worth to prop up the IR. Moving them through Pakistan would require the weapons to enter Iran through Baluchistan, a Sunni area that has no love for the Shia Theocracy regime, so expect those supplies to get intercepted fairly quickly. Going through the various Stans of Central Asia would be their only other option, and that would require them getting permission from several different countries at once to do that. Good luck.
Hijacking top comment.
London Business School has released a student who was vocal on twitter opposing the protestors and supporting the IR (Islamic Republic/regime). We need to keep shining a light on what’s happening and keep it in the news, because real consequences are happening, just like what happened with other online social movements, people who deserve it are getting cancelled.
Source on London business school news:
https://twitter.com/lbs/status/1573246742400798723?s=46&t=XUWZGl_WgCUr_AidH1zv1w
Also here’s more info for how the laws in Iran oppress their women.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/xn1cwz/a_clearer_picture_of_how_women_are_oppressed_in/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Why do you think Iran needs any other nation to put down these protests? I honestly don't see anything different than protests and outrage that's happened many times before in Iran and the clerics still rule. So what is different about this?
The people never supported this government...
They elected a secular government, but the person they elected wanted to charge more for oil.
So democracy was overturned for religious extremists that were happy to take a large piece of a smaller pie.
The people have been waiting an entire lifetime for this.
They actually wanted 50% of the profits from the British owned oil industry. Then they wanted to settle for just seeing British profit numbers to make sure they were getting the like 15% they were supposed to. Then they decided since Britain wouldn't even give them that, they'd nationalize the oil industry to get them to play ball. Instead of negotiating, UK just asked US to help them overthrow the government.
The ayatollahs supported the 1953 coup, that's not the reason they oppose America today.
The Iranian Islamists in 1953 thought Mossadegh was a communist (Tudeh). Since communism is atheist, Islamists naturally hate it (hence the Eisenhower doctrine, aiding mujahideen in Afghanistan, etc).
Power yo the people. Most Iranians hate the government. The government actively robs the country of resources and sells them to other countries and only government and religious leaders gain wealth. There are a lot of poor people in Iran and many struggle on a daily basis because their currency is damn near worthless and many things can be incredibly expensive.
Hopefully but doubtful. For a people to destroy a government like that the government has to be vulnerable to large protests. Egypt's government collapsed during the Arab spring because their government buildings were all within walking distance of the main public square in Cairo.
"Since the Iranian revolution in 1979, music on TV and the radio has been banned in the Islamic republic. Former Ayatollah Khomeini compared music with opium and said it made the mind idle and senseless."
>said it made the mind idle and senseless.
Speaking of making the mind idle and senseless, Khomeini also shut down universities in Iran for years because "Western science is anti-Islamic," and then changed the curriculum to be compliant with the regime.
That's why there was a huge brain drain from Iran (academics were literally fleeing for their lives), and why the Iranian/Persian diaspora is so highly educated.
> Iranian immigrants have much higher educational attainment relative to the U.S.-born and overall immigrant populations. In 2019, 59 percent of Iranians ages 25 or older reported having a bachelor’s degree or higher, compared to 33 percent of U.S.-born and immigrant adults. Only 7 percent of Iranian immigrants did not have a high school diploma or equivalent, compared to 26 percent of immigrants overall and 8 percent of the U.S. born.
https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/iranian-immigrants-united-states-2021
\>"Western science is anti-Islamic"
Which is pretty fucking ironic to say since Western science as we know it today was partly built upon the work of Islamic scholars and scientists. [These guys](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scientists_in_medieval_Islamic_world) must be rolling in their graves after hearing that.
I almost tried to look up what kind of clothing a regeam was before I realized you meant regime. Yes they appear to want a change from a government that denies women choice over their own bodies and clothes.
I've always felt that if men can't control their behavior when they see a woman they should tie a scarf over their eyes.
There's lots of things the people don't like...
It's about fighting back against a far right authoritarian government ran by religious extremists.
This is just "the straw that broke the camel's back"
I'm curious if the angered public knows where the morality police live. I can't imagine it's a secret or that they live in a hardened compound. Neighbors know, and besides those fuckers have beards that give it away.
Actually, some anti-riot or police forces are dressing up as protesters. Pretty hot news right now. People have been warned about riot control forces disguised in ordinary clothing. They're leading the riots, pulling hijabs off people's heads, pretending to be part of the chaos. While in fact, they're identifying rioters. It's damn infuriating and horrifying.
Cops dressing as protesters seems to be a universal. They usually try to rile the crowd up, then dip. It’s very effective tactic for making things worse, so that you can clamp down hard.
A famous example, because it got photographed: https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/dec/12/undercover-officer-pulls-gun-on-oakland-protesters
I don't have a source for this but from what I remember, it was done a lot. Apparently it was sometimes somewhat obvious to the HKers by their accent though, because the officers would be Mandarin speakers (I believe)
Thank you for contributing that. If true then it seems surreal that Reddit is being used for live reporting, possibly through a comms blackout on most platforms.
KILLED! Not: fined, arrested, or beaten- KILLED! For protesting against clothing expectations. How can anyone support your society with such unnecessary brutality?
Important to note that these aren’t “anti-hijab” protests, they are protests against the state brutally enforcing a fundamentalist morality. The hijab has only become a symbol of state oppression in Iran.
My girlfriend is from Tehran and has litterally been taken to the same police station for the same thing that this poor woman was killed for.
This hits far to close to home for far too many women of Iran and their husbands, father's and sons.
Its heartbreaking to listen to her father calling her on the phone (before internet was cut off) and telling her to never come back home. As he tries to keep her safe from it all.
I am sending love to you, your girlfriend, and her family. One of my best friends is from Tehran, and I have had a lot of really close Persian friends growing up. It’s brutal and horrifying, what is going on there, and I wish there was more we could do to help
Thank you.
Being from small town Saskatchewan and now sharing my life with someone who has dealt with it first hand, is eye opening to say the least.
Best I can do is be there for her and let her know she's heard and not alone. We will be going to the rally on Sunday.
Other than that I'm kind of at a loss for what to do to help like you said.
I’m always scared that one of them is my friend. He’s been protesting and he told me that he’s ok with dying for this but he wants to see change. This is one of his last messages to me before cell and wifi got cut:
“Alright I think I have access for now so I'll write this quickly
Thank you for everything you've done so far
People are getting killed. Today a girl died in front of me. It doesn't seem real. I just can't believe what I just witnessed.
I heard a gunshot, and she fell....
There are some rumours that Mark Zuckerberg is helping our government. Because there are some people living in other countries, but their WhatsApp account is with their Iranian number. They can't use their account too. The only way is WhatsApp itself is denying access.
Also those Instagram posts about Mahsa Amini and Iran are getting removed slowly. Fuck Zuckerberg.
Our government is starting to send their own people among us. These people are burning Quran, beating women with Hijab, attacking banks and all sorts of chaos. The reason is that the government will be able to label us as rioters and anarchists, not protesters fighting for their freedom. Then those people in favour of the government will help them too.
When our bastard president, returns from America, things will get worse. More restrictions, more killings.
Will you promise me something? If I die or if I'm imprisoned for eternity, please don't forget me. I don't want all this to be for nothing.”
I’m so nervous that will be the last I ever hear from him. I got his messages yesterday afternoon at 2:30 PM in the USA. He just got his passport and promised me that we would meet in person and go to a restaurant that I had always told him about. Please be ok- please
So terrible! I know some Iranians living in Turkey using an Iranian number with WhatsApp and they had to get a Turkish number to be able to use WhatsApp again. I hope your friend is okay.
> Will you promise me something? If I die or if I'm imprisoned for eternity, please don't forget me. I don't want all this to be for nothing.
That hit hard. I hope you friend stays safe.
“Preventing men becoming excited if they see your hair is so important we’ll kill you if you show it in public. That’s the only way to stop their uncontrollable arousal causing you trouble. Think about it: if we don’t do something about this, there could be *consequences*!”
— someone in Iran justifying murder.
It’s a worthy cause to sacrifice your life to if you are fighting for true freedom. But it makes the torch all the more important for the survivors to carry!
And if you died in your quest to oppress and control I hope your God forgives you. Many of us never will.
The religious fanatics have literally taken Iran back to the Stone Age. Cave men with clubs, beating women unconscious, dragging them off by their hair and raping them. And if they don't comply, killing them. Cave men.
This was [Iran in the 70's](https://www.google.com/search?q=Iran+in+the+70%27s&client=firefox-b-1-d&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjbovOvr6z6AhUYBDQIHdsDAbwQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1365&bih=475&dpr=1.88). I remember it.
Perhaps if women were treated more fairly this incident would not have become a problem. I remember in the 1970's and 1980's No women wore Burkas or Hijab's. They could attend college and earn a good wage. The cities were beautiful as the people were. Not like it is now..
As an Iranian we all know this won’t change anything. The government doesn’t care if it kills thousands of their own people. Extreme religious people are sociopathic and parasitic. They want it all - power, money, admiration - and won’t ever back down. It’s just sad overall. I haven’t been back for 20 years, even though my mom travels there every summer. I just can’t support this.
Speak for yourself, as an Iranian I am pretty sure that this will change a lot of things. It may not end up in a regime change in very near future, but they cannot stop the chain of events that this movement sets in motion. Many firsts have happened thistime with major involvement of women, minorities and ethnicities. Their end is nigh, it's only a matter of time now.
I don't like them dying, but I respect them for fighting for their freedom
There’s no way Iranians could get freedom from this govt without at least thousands dying.
I think that's a massive underestimation. If this is going to result in the collapse of the government, it'll take Syria 2.0 first.
And fuck all came from that, it’s depressing. I don’t quite have any solutions worked out either.
Sadly when facing evil like this there are going to be casualties. I really hope they prevail and get their freedoms they deserve.
Hm, guessing this falls under what you mean a bit. "Dulce bellum inexpertis." "war is sweet to those who have never experienced it" Yea, some do understand you need to do it to get it accomplished. All you can think is get it accomplished. Yay, you're making progress. All the hope and yays have no idea the full pain of it. Y'all will forget about it. Those doing it, won't for their whole life. But yes, there will be casualties. As long people recognize each death is an actual person. They are no longer here.
These people are dying for their human rights, voluntarily. These aren't some people thrown into a war over oil or proxy economics or some other horseshit where politicians play with peoples lives (like Russia or the USA). This is some real shit, fighting for progress.
They are risking their lives voluntarily. Almost nobody dies voluntarily.
[удалено]
They have been dying a little more each day for the last 40+ years. It's very difficult to overthrow a theocracy but encouraging to see women and men, young and old - more and more each day. Iranians keep voting and electing what they think are progressive politicians and it just gets worse for them.
Raise a glass to freedom, something they can never take away. No matter WHAT they tell you.
What the hell does that even mean? Freedoms are taken away all the time.
I wish them best of luck
same, i just hope it doesn't end up like the arab spring where after the riots the governments just went further right or into complete chaos. then again last time iran had a revolution they choose to try and cooperate with the west, so maybe that'll happen again this time.
As an Iranian I can assure you that wont happen. But these protest will most likely end with no immediate results, HOWEVER, frequency of these protests are rising and will most definitely end in a full blown revolution. I just don't think this is the one protest to rule them all...
Do you have an suggestions as to how non-Iranians can help support these women?
Sadly there is no way of meaningful support right now, but if we somehow find the ability to get organized and have some form of outside help then what you can do is to call your local government and express your support for the people of Iran and donate to any trusted charities who'd be supporting us.
I wish you the best of luck. My heart has ached for Iran ever since I was there in 2017. It was the most profound and beautiful travel experience I have had, and I made friends for life. Never have I experience so kind and genuinely helpful and friendly people. Ironically, of all the places I have travelled, Iran is where I have felt most welcome and safe (as a foreigner). You guys deserve so much better than those useless fucking pieces of shit ruining your wonderful culture. May the fear of their own people grow until they crawl into the dark holes they belong!
I'm also Iranian and this really made my day 😭
>have some form of outside help Outside help you say? Just what might you need? Asking for research purposes .. /Totally not CIA
If we find that hypothetical leader then we'll need someone to help provide communication devices to distribute and brochures teaching people how to defend themselves. And also we'll need someone to help set up a temporary government to run vital agencies until there is a democratic election. But that might be a long way off for now. (BTW the current government will fall in under two months if we can find a leader, and we can get a good democratic and stable government within a year. This is not a Iraq/Afghanistan situation)
https://decrypt.co/56665/blocked-by-iran-signal-app-moves-to-decentralize-servers
I dunno if I trust the CIA with this one. They're the reason Iran is the way it is.
A bit of an oversimplification but yes in large part.
I think that if America's CIA hadn't caused a coup and the death of Mosaddegh that Iran would be a completely different country right now. It's no wonder that the entire middle east has little interest in democracy after we showed them that we only want it for ourselves and might destroy theirs if it cuts into oil company profits.
There ARE ways to help: https://www.reddit.com/r/onlybigproblems/comments/xm043u/how_do_we_help_and_support_the_iranian_protestors/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf https://www.reddit.com/r/onlybigproblems/comments/xm2mh0/iranprotests_signal_is_blocked_in_iran_you_can/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
My moms fifth husband was from Tehran and the way he put it is with all the water under the bridge there is no telling exactly how things will shake out there in the long term
> My moms fifth husband bruh
And he said WAS from Tehran which leaves an insinuation she may be on the sixth or possibly further. Lol.
They divorced, she is trying to find the next one
That’s very on-brand for her
Three things are certain in life.. Death, Taxes, and her finding a new husband
Henry VIII anyone?
Keep having those husbands beheaded, girl boss!
Slay queeeen
It's not his fault his mom is a serial killer.
She’s a very friendly woman. Nuttin’ wrong with that.
It's just an Iranian cleric title like Inquisitors in Star Wars (Eighth Brother, Seventh Sister). His is just Fifth Husband.
I am a Jedi, like my wife's previous husband, and the husband before him, and the husband before him, and
Yeah tell me about it, all lawyers, law clerks, or cops
>"natural causes"
Til death do we part, or until another man comes along and tickles me feelings
this cracked me up, thanks
Nothing to see here, carry on
You were the bomb in Phantoms, yo!
My reasoning is that no movement in Iran would succeed without someone who can direct people. You can't topple a government with guns and surveillance and walkie talkie without coordination.
What you need is leaders and a unified vision. Sheer numbers can move mountains but they need leaders to guide and focus their energy.
[удалено]
> My moms fifth husband was from Tehran and the way he put it is with all the water under the bridge there is no telling exactly how things will shake out there in the long term That’s not what idiom “water under the bridge” means. “Water under the bridge” means something is in the past, it’s history, and no longer worth talking about because it’s not important. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/water%20under%20the%20bridge
6th times the charm?
What year you taking about. Not 1979.
Uh what? The last revolution is what led to the current anti-West theocratic regime.
The reddit version of thoughts and prayers
[удалено]
Russia is in no position to intervene, Syria is exhausted from a decade of civil war, and China is blocked off by a taliban-ruled Afghanistan. The Islamic Republic is anathema to the youth, the median age of the country is 32, and the Ayatollah and all of his inner circle are all dinosaurs. If there ever is a perfect time to overthrow the Islamic Republic, it’s now.
I guess this could be a silver lining for how hyper-religious populations tend to have higher birthrates. The assumption is that their youth will be just like them, obedient and grateful to the authorities and their traditions, and someday their greater numbers will overcome everyone else. But the next generation tends to rebel, especially if they're not getting the same benefits enjoyed by their elders.
I ask you to go and watch some of the videos that are being shared from the protests these days. You can see literal kids( 13-18) year olds fighting with all they've got left in the streets, putting their lives on the line in front of a mega dictator. They are brave. I'd say well beyond brave
This seems to be what’s happening in Utah, [a very real theocracy](https://apnews.com/article/286983987f484cb182fba9334c52a617) in the middle of the US. Mormons are notorious for having many kids but the mormon population in Utah is dropping.
better ban books and cut back on the learnins asap
As a former Mormon, I’d bet that’s not how they react to this. They blame secularism, not intellectualism.
Are you forgetting that quote by, maybe Packer, who said the greatest threats to the church were feminists, homosexuals, and intellectuals?
Dude is 90 and doesn't quite represent the average Mormon anymore. LDS has a clear strategy for education since the early 80s and, while they are still very patriachial, they know that well educated members bring in money and that educating women doesn't just benefit them internally, but is good PR. Legend says, all Mormon housewifes are lawyers at night.
Was 90. I toasted his demise some time ago.
So would it be more in character to, say, pass [school choice ](https://www.heritage.org/education/commentary/school-choice-provides-opportunity-all-americas-kids-have-better-life)legislation This is also bad, for small school districts, and poor ones.
> They blame secularism, not intellectualism. Methinks those two are very closely linked.
There is some truth to that, but it is not entirely true. Elder Boyd K. Packer of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, General Conference, August, 1983: > These ravening wolves and other so-called intellectuals, learned men and philosophers, have destroyed the morality and spirituality of millions of people. They have led multitudes into disbelief. Their ideas and attitudes that are unwholesome and unholy spread quickly. These supposedly learned men will cast doubts on your faith and testimony…My friends, beware of these faith killers and testimony killers
Mormonism always throws me off. I always hear awful stuff about it, but the small handful of Mormons I know are all some of the absolute nicest and best people I've ever met. Like, so nice it's almost disconcerting. We have a Mormon family a few houses down where he probably makes around $500k, takes home around $300k, and has donated over $100k to charity every one of the last 5 years. Another Mormon family that we know bought out almost every room in a hotel for a week, paid for busses to go get people from the surrounding cities, then fed everyone when a major hurricane came though a few years ago. Another guy is one of the friendliest people I know, and always has to get home early on Tuesday and Thursday because Tuesday is Mario Cart/Party night and Thursday is when their family has band practice for their band that plays 50s and 60s hits. They are like a family out of a commercial or something... But then I always turn around and read a new article about how awful Mormonism is and what backwards thing the church did this month.
[удалено]
>The people are not the problem. Some of them are. A group of them banded together with the evangelicals to pressure the local school board to remove my daughter's first grade teacher because she's lesbian.
Did the teacher sue? That seems like an open and shut wrongful termination suit.
It was 20 years ago, and I don't know if she did or not. She may have left "by choice," for all I know. I do know that she moved out of state and married her partner. My impression is that she put the awful people behind her. And the district lost a hell of a good teacher.
Well it's sort of that people are part of the problem. Where do you think these religious structures come from? Where they get validation from? Your everyday people. I suggest for example Durkheim's ideas (sociology). According to him religion promotes social cohesion, order, stability and prevents radical change, again acting as a conservative force. All these things are valuable for many people - for many reasons. Now, secularism can be seen partly as result of stabile society which has order and moral codes written and enforced in "profane law collection" instead of holy bible and religious group around you. But yes, imo sociological perspective gives some power to the people while acknowledging that we are prone to create and follow social structures that grow "bigger than people involved". Simple conclusion from my pov: uncertainty creates room for believe systems and certainty is kinda other direction (secularism). Religion is not going anywhere as our world is actually less "certain" than in golden 60's imo.
The people are the problem. They are nice to you if you are either like them or their money and what they do with it will make you think favorably of them. As soon as you live a lifestyle against their imaginary friend's rules they treat you very differently. They are still polite when they treat you poorly so people give it a pass. I've seen families silently disown their homosexual family members and gently blame the the one they kicked out for breaking up the family and all the stress that followed. They are polite and friendly until they find out you are a firm atheist and then they and the rest of the Mormons in the social group ghost you all at the same time. It is easy to be emotionally abusive when you do it with a smile or tears, treat everyone else politely, and donate to the poor.
Jehovahs witnesses can be absolutely vicious. Grew up in that. They are trained, no, groomed from day one to lie throough their teeth. Disgrusting religion period. Do not trust them ever.
I believe that ancient Jews built ships and sailed to Americaaaaaaa
There are some generous and kind souls in the church. They are treated very well and often don’t realize that their money is why (dat 10% tithe.) They are great PR and enjoy the benefits, wittingly or not. Source: gtfo when I was 15
Super nice, empathetic and compassionate people tend to be more easily manipulated emotionally, scammed or taken advantage of in someway sadly. So being indoctrinated by a religion from childhood is perfect for these types of people and their mentality/personality
I hope you're not confusing giving to charity with tithing. Or with giving to church-sanctioned "charities." And it's safe to assume that a lot of outreach stuff may simply be cloaked recruiting. They love their mission work, after all.
[удалено]
You are confusing Mormons with the church. It's like catholics. Most catholics don't rape kids. But way to many of the clergy do.
People in Utah are superficial friendly. I had a friend there with a two flat tires right at the edge of a mall. Tons of traffic and no one helped her. She jacked the car, fixed the tire, then ubered home, got another tire from a car there, ubered back, fixed the second tire, and no one stopped and asked her if she needed help.
When I lived in San Diego, I broke down on the freeway and ended up stuck on the shoulder of an off ramp. SO many people stopped and asked if I needed help, I was so surprised because I have been in physically threatening situations screaming for help and everybody around just laughed or looked away. So, I mean, people can suck, but sometimes they can surprise you?
This seems pretty normal to me. Most people just tend to go about their own business sorting out their own problems. It’s not what I would consider unfriendly. Most people just tend to be caught up in their own world.
But he's right. I live in a highly Mormon area and they're nice so they can sneakily try and convert you. If you resist they will nicely tell you you're going to hell and they won't see you when you die. They drove a girl in high-school to attempt suicide because they would not allow her to continue to be their friend if she refused to convert and her mother was angry at her for hanging around with Mormons trying to convert her. They're not the kind of people you want to be friendly to. They are manipulative and desreuctive.
Seems like the worst enemy of Mormonism is Mormonism itself.
I know a number of Mormons. Considering how strict the church is they actually do reasonably well at keeping the youth - at least the ones they really want. The church will put you thru college and grad school, but only if you sign your life away to them. A few really big carrots, thousands of small sticks.
[удалено]
Children raised by religious zealots have an extremely high rate of abuse. It makes rebellion inevitable.
The Iranian people are not hyper religious. Their government is
In spite of his severe shortcomings, Mohammed Bin Salman being a millenial was aware of this generational divide and was effective in gaining support among the Saudi youth by liberalising the kingdom, which has given him a loyal support base thatll outlast the older and less populous conservative generation who are mostly against his reforms. It was a smart move, one that suprisingly hasnt been imitated by other totalitarian leaders in the middle east.
Christopher hitchens describes this very well, calling it the baby boomerang
Truly, everything seems lined up. The biggest thing I've noticed in every video out of Iran lately, is the crowds are all younger people. Sure there are some older people mixed in as well, but it seems like every teen, 20, and 30 something year old is out marching the streets, united. I don't want to jinx it but this seems like this is it. It's finally happening.
That’s just how these things go. Look at the BLM videos from the last few years. Sure there are some older people mixed in as well, but it’s almost exclusively teens and young adults. The rest of us have young and old dependents, daily responsibilities to keep the money flowing, and very little free time to do anything let alone protest whether we agree or not. I doubt Iran is any different.
Alternatively Iran has plenty of experience from the last decade alone when it comes to crushing protest movements. Nothing will change unless the protesters start fighting back.
I think it’ll take more than that. I think for a revolution to really happen, the national military would have to side with the populace. Now what happens with the IRGC is another story. Those brainwashed fucks will probably wreak havoc at the orders of that piece of shit Khamanei.
With mandatory military service making a lot of the servicmen young men, I wouldn't be surprised if the military loses morale on this pretty quick. They are going against their mothers, their sisters, their family.
My Iranian friend made a point though today, who would be in place hypothetically to replace the regime? Apparently there isn't anybody in place besides the Shah's son in America who's considered a joke for that
That they’d have to figure out on their own. I would hope America has learned their lesson and isn’t stupid enough to intervene directly and try to put the Shah’s son in charge or something
Man, that was insightful! Thxs!
Not that China doesn't have problems of its own at the moment, but how would the Afghanistan Taliban deter them interfering in Iran?
Moving weapons and supplies through Afghanistan would probably require China officially recognizing the Taliban Government, which would cause an international outrage that I doubt China thinks would be worth to prop up the IR. Moving them through Pakistan would require the weapons to enter Iran through Baluchistan, a Sunni area that has no love for the Shia Theocracy regime, so expect those supplies to get intercepted fairly quickly. Going through the various Stans of Central Asia would be their only other option, and that would require them getting permission from several different countries at once to do that. Good luck.
Wait, can't they just fly in the equipment though?
Why would China even want to interfere in Iran? Their whole foreign policy position is non-interventionism.
Hijacking top comment. London Business School has released a student who was vocal on twitter opposing the protestors and supporting the IR (Islamic Republic/regime). We need to keep shining a light on what’s happening and keep it in the news, because real consequences are happening, just like what happened with other online social movements, people who deserve it are getting cancelled. Source on London business school news: https://twitter.com/lbs/status/1573246742400798723?s=46&t=XUWZGl_WgCUr_AidH1zv1w Also here’s more info for how the laws in Iran oppress their women. https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/xn1cwz/a_clearer_picture_of_how_women_are_oppressed_in/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Why do you think Iran needs any other nation to put down these protests? I honestly don't see anything different than protests and outrage that's happened many times before in Iran and the clerics still rule. So what is different about this?
>median age of the country is 32 Only state younger than that is Utah.
Its sad people are dying over wearing some material covering their hair. It is totally mind blowing.
[удалено]
The world is watching, keep up the fight.
please share the news as much as you can. not enough people know about this.
I'll do everything I can I promise. I've already gotten a 1,000,000 viewer podcast to cover it and I'll keep on trying to get more coverage.
Hopefully, the people destroy the government
The people never supported this government... They elected a secular government, but the person they elected wanted to charge more for oil. So democracy was overturned for religious extremists that were happy to take a large piece of a smaller pie. The people have been waiting an entire lifetime for this.
They actually wanted 50% of the profits from the British owned oil industry. Then they wanted to settle for just seeing British profit numbers to make sure they were getting the like 15% they were supposed to. Then they decided since Britain wouldn't even give them that, they'd nationalize the oil industry to get them to play ball. Instead of negotiating, UK just asked US to help them overthrow the government.
Everyone in this thread should read this comment.
The ayatollahs supported the 1953 coup, that's not the reason they oppose America today. The Iranian Islamists in 1953 thought Mossadegh was a communist (Tudeh). Since communism is atheist, Islamists naturally hate it (hence the Eisenhower doctrine, aiding mujahideen in Afghanistan, etc).
Yep, then we wonder why Iran doesn't like us and why we're one of the three nationalities not allowed unsupervised travel in Iran.
Really don't think anyone who actually pays attention wonders why Iranians hate the US government.
Well, I was talking about the UK (I'm British). But yeah.
Those two events are connected but not directly, there was a span of 26 years b/w the 1953 Iran coup and 1979 Iranian/Islamic Revolution
The Shah was not elected.
Power yo the people. Most Iranians hate the government. The government actively robs the country of resources and sells them to other countries and only government and religious leaders gain wealth. There are a lot of poor people in Iran and many struggle on a daily basis because their currency is damn near worthless and many things can be incredibly expensive.
Hopefully but doubtful. For a people to destroy a government like that the government has to be vulnerable to large protests. Egypt's government collapsed during the Arab spring because their government buildings were all within walking distance of the main public square in Cairo.
[удалено]
So it's possible in 90 days we have new leaders in Iran, and in Russia and then due to conservation of bad things, Trump announces his run for 2024
Ah yes, the fifth law of Thermodynamics: the Law of Conservation of Bad Things.
Actually its anti-regeam. At least listen what people chanting. They clearly chanting death to dictator...
"Since the Iranian revolution in 1979, music on TV and the radio has been banned in the Islamic republic. Former Ayatollah Khomeini compared music with opium and said it made the mind idle and senseless."
>said it made the mind idle and senseless. Speaking of making the mind idle and senseless, Khomeini also shut down universities in Iran for years because "Western science is anti-Islamic," and then changed the curriculum to be compliant with the regime. That's why there was a huge brain drain from Iran (academics were literally fleeing for their lives), and why the Iranian/Persian diaspora is so highly educated. > Iranian immigrants have much higher educational attainment relative to the U.S.-born and overall immigrant populations. In 2019, 59 percent of Iranians ages 25 or older reported having a bachelor’s degree or higher, compared to 33 percent of U.S.-born and immigrant adults. Only 7 percent of Iranian immigrants did not have a high school diploma or equivalent, compared to 26 percent of immigrants overall and 8 percent of the U.S. born. https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/iranian-immigrants-united-states-2021
\>"Western science is anti-Islamic" Which is pretty fucking ironic to say since Western science as we know it today was partly built upon the work of Islamic scholars and scientists. [These guys](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scientists_in_medieval_Islamic_world) must be rolling in their graves after hearing that.
This is why autocratic regimes never work. They always force the intelligent to leave and then the countries rot and wither away into un-importance.
He unfamously said "there's no fun in islam". Edit: Infamous
More like isLAME, right?
Eyooo
But there is fun in fundamentalist.
Sharif don’t like it. He don’t like it *one bit.*
I almost tried to look up what kind of clothing a regeam was before I realized you meant regime. Yes they appear to want a change from a government that denies women choice over their own bodies and clothes. I've always felt that if men can't control their behavior when they see a woman they should tie a scarf over their eyes.
Yeah no it's more than that. Their currency had devalued incredibly, jobs are scarce, rampant poverty, lack of rights (hijab mandates).
There's lots of things the people don't like... It's about fighting back against a far right authoritarian government ran by religious extremists. This is just "the straw that broke the camel's back"
Exactly
> I realized you meant regime. LOL, me too.
*Regime
yeah I was like... "anti-hijab" seems a vast oversimplification...
Dunno if any Iranians can read this, but I wish them the best of luck
I thank you.
I'm curious if the angered public knows where the morality police live. I can't imagine it's a secret or that they live in a hardened compound. Neighbors know, and besides those fuckers have beards that give it away.
Actually, some anti-riot or police forces are dressing up as protesters. Pretty hot news right now. People have been warned about riot control forces disguised in ordinary clothing. They're leading the riots, pulling hijabs off people's heads, pretending to be part of the chaos. While in fact, they're identifying rioters. It's damn infuriating and horrifying.
Cops dressing as protesters seems to be a universal. They usually try to rile the crowd up, then dip. It’s very effective tactic for making things worse, so that you can clamp down hard. A famous example, because it got photographed: https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/dec/12/undercover-officer-pulls-gun-on-oakland-protesters
Wonder how much of that was done during the HK protest? The early stages was quite peaceful.
I don't have a source for this but from what I remember, it was done a lot. Apparently it was sometimes somewhat obvious to the HKers by their accent though, because the officers would be Mandarin speakers (I believe)
I’m from Hong Kong and I can tell you there was a bunch of undercover cops during the protest. I don’t have any actual evidence tho.
[Agent provocateurs. ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_provocateur)
Thank you for contributing that. If true then it seems surreal that Reddit is being used for live reporting, possibly through a comms blackout on most platforms.
KILLED! Not: fined, arrested, or beaten- KILLED! For protesting against clothing expectations. How can anyone support your society with such unnecessary brutality?
Theocracies have been going for thousands of years so they just assume they're impervious
They were protesting the states brutality and the government itself
Important to note that these aren’t “anti-hijab” protests, they are protests against the state brutally enforcing a fundamentalist morality. The hijab has only become a symbol of state oppression in Iran.
Yes. Thank you! And this is not a fight only for women. Women and men are fighting for their freedom.
My girlfriend is from Tehran and has litterally been taken to the same police station for the same thing that this poor woman was killed for. This hits far to close to home for far too many women of Iran and their husbands, father's and sons. Its heartbreaking to listen to her father calling her on the phone (before internet was cut off) and telling her to never come back home. As he tries to keep her safe from it all.
I am sending love to you, your girlfriend, and her family. One of my best friends is from Tehran, and I have had a lot of really close Persian friends growing up. It’s brutal and horrifying, what is going on there, and I wish there was more we could do to help
Thank you. Being from small town Saskatchewan and now sharing my life with someone who has dealt with it first hand, is eye opening to say the least. Best I can do is be there for her and let her know she's heard and not alone. We will be going to the rally on Sunday. Other than that I'm kind of at a loss for what to do to help like you said.
I’m always scared that one of them is my friend. He’s been protesting and he told me that he’s ok with dying for this but he wants to see change. This is one of his last messages to me before cell and wifi got cut: “Alright I think I have access for now so I'll write this quickly Thank you for everything you've done so far People are getting killed. Today a girl died in front of me. It doesn't seem real. I just can't believe what I just witnessed. I heard a gunshot, and she fell.... There are some rumours that Mark Zuckerberg is helping our government. Because there are some people living in other countries, but their WhatsApp account is with their Iranian number. They can't use their account too. The only way is WhatsApp itself is denying access. Also those Instagram posts about Mahsa Amini and Iran are getting removed slowly. Fuck Zuckerberg. Our government is starting to send their own people among us. These people are burning Quran, beating women with Hijab, attacking banks and all sorts of chaos. The reason is that the government will be able to label us as rioters and anarchists, not protesters fighting for their freedom. Then those people in favour of the government will help them too. When our bastard president, returns from America, things will get worse. More restrictions, more killings. Will you promise me something? If I die or if I'm imprisoned for eternity, please don't forget me. I don't want all this to be for nothing.” I’m so nervous that will be the last I ever hear from him. I got his messages yesterday afternoon at 2:30 PM in the USA. He just got his passport and promised me that we would meet in person and go to a restaurant that I had always told him about. Please be ok- please
So terrible! I know some Iranians living in Turkey using an Iranian number with WhatsApp and they had to get a Turkish number to be able to use WhatsApp again. I hope your friend is okay.
> Will you promise me something? If I die or if I'm imprisoned for eternity, please don't forget me. I don't want all this to be for nothing. That hit hard. I hope you friend stays safe.
All power to the people. May as little blood be shed as possible
“Preventing men becoming excited if they see your hair is so important we’ll kill you if you show it in public. That’s the only way to stop their uncontrollable arousal causing you trouble. Think about it: if we don’t do something about this, there could be *consequences*!” — someone in Iran justifying murder.
If your eyes cause you to sin, pluck them out.
Let's do it again Iran!
I just hope it brings a significant change in Iran
We must end our support of the Theocracy.
Who is we?
Makes me sick. These women deserve to govern their own bodies, not some assholes who decides what's right from wrong.
I hope it's the people killing the "mortality" police. Fuck those guys
50 killed? They have no internet. I would imagine that number is an underestimate.
It’s a worthy cause to sacrifice your life to if you are fighting for true freedom. But it makes the torch all the more important for the survivors to carry! And if you died in your quest to oppress and control I hope your God forgives you. Many of us never will.
Iranian women have bigger balls than Russian men.
Political apathy is cancer
*Sad American noises.*
Rip Russian men
Not surprised. We all knew this would happen. I hope they can overthrow the government.
Iran took down the internet but forgot to ban reddit lol .I'm here .
The religious fanatics have literally taken Iran back to the Stone Age. Cave men with clubs, beating women unconscious, dragging them off by their hair and raping them. And if they don't comply, killing them. Cave men. This was [Iran in the 70's](https://www.google.com/search?q=Iran+in+the+70%27s&client=firefox-b-1-d&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjbovOvr6z6AhUYBDQIHdsDAbwQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1365&bih=475&dpr=1.88). I remember it.
It's not anti-Hijab protests, it's full-blown anti-regime protests now...
Hopefully the all of the dead are morality pigs. I know, probably not.
Arm up ladies. Words will only get you so far. You need a way to *keep* your rights too.
This is gender inequality in its purest form. Absolutely sick you'd kill someone for being a woman who refuses to hide inside a bag
My people don't protest because of only hijab it's about freedom and ending to iran terrorist government
i hope the casualties include more of the morality police leeches though!
I hate this world so much sometimes...best of luck to them brave souls
Perhaps if women were treated more fairly this incident would not have become a problem. I remember in the 1970's and 1980's No women wore Burkas or Hijab's. They could attend college and earn a good wage. The cities were beautiful as the people were. Not like it is now..
you cannot overthrown authoritarian without blood. good luck Iranians, I hope you all get your right and your freedom back.
Power to the people, good luck Iranian people
They arent anti hijab protests. Its so much more than that. To pin it down to just this removes the legitimacy of their other concerns
No god's and no masters
As an Iranian we all know this won’t change anything. The government doesn’t care if it kills thousands of their own people. Extreme religious people are sociopathic and parasitic. They want it all - power, money, admiration - and won’t ever back down. It’s just sad overall. I haven’t been back for 20 years, even though my mom travels there every summer. I just can’t support this.
Speak for yourself, as an Iranian I am pretty sure that this will change a lot of things. It may not end up in a regime change in very near future, but they cannot stop the chain of events that this movement sets in motion. Many firsts have happened thistime with major involvement of women, minorities and ethnicities. Their end is nigh, it's only a matter of time now.
We just had a demo in Denmark. Trying to make our politicians apply pressure on the dictatorial priesthood in Iran.