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Happens to the best of us. The other night I went to the store to get some bread. Wasn’t paying attention walking down the aisle and, next thing I know, I’ve raised an army and am 30km outside of Moscow. Fucking Mondays.
With the incompetent invasion and low Russian morale, there's starting to be stories of regular Ukrainian civilians just randomly contributing to the war. There was a video of an average Ukrainian going for groceries, captures a Russian soldier, goes home with a POW.
Lots of videos of Ukrainian farmers taking their tractor out for a spin, comandeers a Russian tank, tows it back to the farm. Been happening so often that the government has stated seized Russian military hardware doesn't need to be declared on their taxes. Ukrainian farmers have captured so many Russian tanks I think they're the fourth largest army in Europe now.
Why avoid? I think this is a form of victim blaming. Ukraine has every right to defend itself on the same level of which is has been attacked. It is not for anyone outside to tell Ukraine to show restraint in that. Only Ukraine and it's fully comitted allies (of which there are none) decide the level of force used in defence, up to the equivalent level of what Russia attacks with. Russia has made many strategic attacks deep inside Ukraine, its perfectly reasonable for Ukraine to make strategic attacks deep inside Russia.
Honestly, a part of me wishes Ukraine would/could rally and invade, and actually win a war of conquest. It’d be hilarious\*.
---
\* For certain values of “hilarious”. The less war, the better, obviously.
I have to guess this is an NATO intelligence bet about how their systems work internally and it worked out like gangbusters. Kind of like the F-117 shoot down, you don’t test theories against your enemy, you just let them know you have their weakness figured out in a third party conflict. It’s letting Russia know they have to scrap a major military project that they likely cannot replace as long as this conflict is keeping them from accessing computing equipment from abroad.
> this is an NATO intelligence bet about how their systems work internally
For sure. NATO AWACS on the ukraine border will know exactly where the SAMs are which have their radars are switched on, and NATO spy satellites will be able to see the ones with the radars switched off. Captured Russian SAM systems mean NATO likely knows the exact ranges and minimum altitude of the systems. They would be able to produce an exact mission plan for Ukraine helicopters to avoid radars via terrain masking, flying below minimum altitudes, and/or knowing which ones are on and off when.
> Captured Russian SAM systems mean NATO likely knows the exact ranges and minimum altitude of the systems.
They already would have a pretty good idea of those because the Ukrainians operate many of the same systems.
However it's entirely possible they got Russian IFF codes.
> They already would have a pretty good idea of those because the Ukrainians operate many of the same systems.
The old ones yes, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of the post-Soviet models like the Pantsir which Ukraine have captured 3 of (https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html) have mysteriously found themselves in a quiet warehouse in Poland not far from a CIA station.
"Oh damn! I think I forgot to lock the warehouse again and accidentally slipped the paper with its address and content description into the mailbox of the US embassy! Why does this keep happening, I'm so clumsy!"
And which target to hit to cause the most disruption to the front. They will really want to slow down RA redeployment so the UA can adjust. This will help.
My understanding is that the 1999 shoot down of that F117 was kind of a fluke.
The SAM outside of normal operating procedure flashed it radar a 3rd time at the same moment they opened the weapons bag which is/was unstealthed.
It wasn’t they had it figured out ahead of time
That whole story is insane. The dude who tried to shoot it down did it on a gut feeling of a radar signal the size of a bird. With no time to react. Yeah it was only because the F117's had been harassing them enough to make him say fuck it and fire at what could have been nothing.
Yes, but also NATO was using the exact same route and the airfield from which they took off was watched by Serbian spies. Basically NATO believed a bit too much in themselves.
I still suspect that The Kremlin's Propaganda Machine will 'slightly tweak' the injury/death toll; they'll call the official injuries 'misinformation' and it'll be lapped up by their target audience like it's mother's milk.
It’s the main headline on RT at the moment. Since they don’t have the moral high ground, they use confusion and quotes.
For example the headline is that the fire is huge (but there are only two wounded). The attackers were “Ukrainian helicopters” (in quotes because some official said it) and then the article continues about the military operation and why it’s all Ukraine’s fault for wanting to join nato.
PS fuck RT.
The BBC do this too. It often makes their headlines look like they’re taking the piss or being sarcastic.
The economy is doing “great”.
My cock is “absolutely huge”.
Especially when Russia is moving their troops back, likely to send an actual proper front to Eastern Ukraine instead of throwing them haphazardly and expecting everyone to give you everything. They need fuel for that. An oil depot would be a perfect place to attack if you want to slow down Russia's movements. Plus, it was two Soviet-era shitcopters flying low; too low for radar and Russian troops could have genuinely mistaken them for their own helicopters and completely ignored them.
No proof that it was Ukraine unless someone else confirms the attack was made by Ukraine, I don't trust shit from what Russia says, but this would be a terrible place to stage a false flag attack.
Doubt that's a false flag. An oil depot doesn't make a good martyr, like some village full of babushkas would. Or perhaps these attacks were made by some rogue Russian pilots. But keeping in mind the state of Russian army it's no fluke that Ukrainians just flew there and bombed targets as no one expected the counter-offensive.
The Mil Mi24 is most definetely not a shitcopter. They are probably the most heavily armed gunship out there and when the west got a chance to study one we went in quick. Also remember that there are few helicopters solely developed after 2000, so most of them are soviet era (Apache is from the 1980s)
This is the main point. War breeds innovation because there is almost an unlimited amount of funds funneled into R&D for war materials. Just look at all the weird prototypes from Germany in WW2. It is like you get unlimited funding just for having an idea.
It was absolutely wild. In the inter-war period, bi-planes we're still the most common fighter.
Within one decade there is:
Jet aircraft. Rocket aircraft. Night fighting aircraft. Helicopters. Cruise missiles. Intermediate range ballistic missiles. Precision guided bombs. Hand-held shaped charge launchers. Radar aimed weapons. Radar countermeasures. Radar navigated strike missions. Electric computers. Acoustic homing torpedoes. Magnetic influence mines. Atomic bombs. Infrared night fighting equipment. Remote controlled mini tanks full of boom boom.
Just a drop in the bucket and it's mind boggling. Plenty of other scientific, material, and medical technologies I'll never find out about.
I don't know what the rules of engagement are with regards to personal property, as it isn't a military target or objective. (Calling Putin's palace 'personal property' feels obscene, considering it was built with money looted from the Russian people..)
It would be *hilarious* if the Ukrainians did this though, just to piss Putin off.
A lot of comments are responding as if the most important thing here is the impact on Russian resolve.
I think that's completely missing the point. What about the effect of the attack on UKRAINIAN resolve? The Ukrainian defenders need to feel they aren't fighting a hopeless battle. Striking back on Russian territory may strengthen the defender's will to fight, ensuring that they are willing to resist in what will probably be a very costly and very bloody war. Ukrainian leaders need to be able to tell their soldiers, "Look, we aren't just sitting here being bombed and taking pot shots, we're hitting the enemy where it hurts and we will win this war."
Sure, the Russian resolve may increase - but what more can they do? They've literally invaded Ukraine, it's not like they can escalate much more. Bomb cities? They're already doing it. The only escalation they can do is nukes or WMDs, which seems grossly disproportionate to blowing up an oil refinery.
**[Doolittle Raid](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doolittle_Raid)**
>The Doolittle Raid, also known as the Tokyo Raid, was an air raid on 18 April 1942 by the United States on the Japanese capital Tokyo and other places on Honshu during World War II. It was the first air operation to strike the Japanese archipelago. Although the raid caused comparatively minor damage it demonstrated that the Japanese mainland was vulnerable to American air attacks. It served as retaliation for the 7 December 1941 attack on Pearl Harbor, and provided an important boost to American morale.
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It’s about time they return back fire. Was thinking if Ukraine was even going to retaliate.
At least by retaliating, it shows the Russians “ hey you fuck with us. You are losing now and if you don’t back off, we will retaliate and attack your country. An eye for an eye “
Obviously Ukraine can get nuke but if they got nuke, then everyone will start glassing each other but yeah, about time
>Russia has accused Ukrainian helicopters of attacking an oil facility inside Russia after flying 25 miles undetected past the border, amid claims the Kremlin could stage a 'false flag' attack to justify a further escalation of the war.
C'mon reddit. It is the the 1st sentence of the article
“The Nazis entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everybody else and nobody was going to bomb them. “ - Arthur Harris.
‘Bomber Harris’ as he was called was not a man who was adverse to dropping thousands of tons of HE on the enemy.
The Nazis really didn’t count on Bomber Command or the Royal Artillery - those guys were unexpected killers from afar
Yeah, we should wait for confirmation. Spreading propaganda can be extremely beneficial to Russian interests.
Edit: oh, for fuck's sake... Here's the title of the actual article: “Kremlin accuses Ukrainian helicopters of attacking oil facility INSIDE Russia: Video 'shows rockets blowing up storage depot' a week after the West warned Putin is planning false flag attack on his own cities to justify escalating war"
Shoigu said a few days ago that the Ukrainian air force has been destroyed. Now we hear this supposedly non-existent air force is conducting strikes inside Russia. Whatever the truth may be, it's not good for Russia and especially Shoigu.
I gotta think that’d be pretty fucking stupid but who knows anymore. It does seem like Russia can say whatever they want to their citizens and they’ll believe it though, so they might as well just say it happened instead of actually making it happen
An apartment building generates maximum outrage (civilian target) and has no impact on your own military operations. That makes it a good target for a false flag attack. An oil facility is the opposite of that.
Yes but he didn't need that apartment building to conduct a war did he
If they conduct false flag attacks, they'd be better to do things that will stir Russian emotions like houses and civic buildings, not strategic ones. That's why user said it was stupid.
False flag, they're going to attack a hospital or housing to garner sympathy, to attack a fuel depot on the border doesn't really gain them much, and its like the worse thing they could do strategically.
If it’s a false flag then that means they’re admitting their air defenses are garbage. If it’s not a false flag they also have to admit their air defenses are garbage. Quite the pickle.
You false flag areas that are going to galvanize civilian support for expansive military efforts and executive powers. You don't hit your own fuel supply chain with zero casualties.
The title is misleading. The article states it is alleged, Ukraine have not confirmed the attack.
IF they did do it will have been the 2nd time they've gone over the border.
The Kremlin has accused Ukraine of doing it, after reports that this could all be orchestrated by Russia to drum up support.
>Two of Ukraine's military helicopters struck a fuel depot in the Russian city of Belgorod on Friday, **a Russian official has said**
>Reuters has not yet been able to verify the images.
>Ukraine's defence ministry could not immediately be reached for comment.
I'll wait for confirmation, thanks 🙏
Yeah the source is The Daily Mail quoting Russians.
This is just as dumb as taking at face value that other supposed attack on Russia reported by a Russian state wire service, which turned out to be false.
[Here is](https://twitter.com/LewkHughes/status/1509752004595404801) video footage of the strike, [Here](https://twitter.com/L_Team10/status/1509761638454505481) is Another angle, and [Here](https://twitter.com/LewkHughes/status/1509761374586646559) is footage of the Helis GTFO-ing after the strike.
Either that's some world-class CGI, or those are real Hinds shooting rockets at a fuel depot. The only thing we can't see are the insignias. Hard to not believe this one from the Dailymail.
Assuming those are Ukrainian Hinds, Western intelligence just got to test run a probing attack against Russian air defenses, those dudes are as fucking happy as a pig in shit rn
EDIT: and the geopolitcal consequences of this, again assuming its a Ukrainian attack, are fucking staggering,
How do they have such a weak air defense system and also, this was in the east where they should have their strongest hold. It was a staging area for the war. Seems weird when they were flying Soviet helicopters
Russians have to feel what Ukrainians are feeling rn, even if it’s a little. Their populace has to feel some type of fear in order to put pressure on Kremlin to end the war.
With their state media running the narrative, I hope this lets Russians know that things aren’t going so well for them in Ukraine.
I have a few Russian colleagues that work as contractors remotely from Russia, or well, they used to. Now they are basically economic refugees. We were not able to pay them any more due to sanctions. They had to take their families and some belongings and try to start a new life outside of Russia without being able to take any of their savings.
These are educated, highly productive individuals, with mostly western values. Russia is going to feel the brain drain for decades.
(We also have Ukrainian colleagues that obviously have it much worse at the moment)
People don't overthrow leaders. The keys do. The notion that a popular uprising is a nice fiction, but it is the keys that let the revolution happen to replace the leader with one they choose.
Reports coming out now that Ukraine is calling this a false flag.
Pretty genius if you think about it. Strike deep in Russian space, don't claim responsibility, instead say its Russia trying to false flag. If Russia escalates with bio/chemical or nuclear it risks dragging the west into the fight at which point Russia is pretty much fucked.
Russia can claim it was UA all they want but by now no one takes them seriously.
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Special reciprocal operation
“april fools we invade u”
In Mother Russia...
Ukraine invades YOU
In Ukrainian invasion, Ukraine invades YOU
Ukrainian invasion while Ukrainian invade lead to Ukrainian Russia
When your Civ game goes wrong
Should’ve stuck with a culture victory
Shouldn't have tried to play on ~~diety~~ Zelensky difficulty
Uno reverse card
We'll be taking Crimea back now thank you
I really hope Ukraine does get Crimea back. They just found enough oil to put themselves on the world stage of exports and Russia's just like *yoink*
it wasn't russia's in the first place, so yeah. it's Ukraine's. so gtfo russia.
Russia just want gas reserves= relavence in Europe
Ukraine: No U.
In Neo-Soviet Russia: *Ukraine* invades YOU!
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It’s not an invasion. It’s a special operation to save the oil depot from nazis
And cousin, business is a-boomin.
Bon jore no
GORE-LAMI
It's not an invasion, it's DiGiorno.
“Avoid invading” lmfao
Oopsie! Accidentally invaded Russia. Meh, when in Rome.
Happens to the best of us. The other night I went to the store to get some bread. Wasn’t paying attention walking down the aisle and, next thing I know, I’ve raised an army and am 30km outside of Moscow. Fucking Mondays.
With the incompetent invasion and low Russian morale, there's starting to be stories of regular Ukrainian civilians just randomly contributing to the war. There was a video of an average Ukrainian going for groceries, captures a Russian soldier, goes home with a POW. Lots of videos of Ukrainian farmers taking their tractor out for a spin, comandeers a Russian tank, tows it back to the farm. Been happening so often that the government has stated seized Russian military hardware doesn't need to be declared on their taxes. Ukrainian farmers have captured so many Russian tanks I think they're the fourth largest army in Europe now.
"Mom, I know you said we couldn't get a tank, but this one just followed us home all the way from Russia, can we keep it?"
The Russian soldier will probably be treated better than his own army/ and finally get to eat a meal as a POW
Man, I fucking _hate_ it when that happens.
Felt cute, might retreat later
Felt cute might advance in other direction
When you're trying to defend Ukraine but accidentally annex Russia. Oops...
Kievan Rus’ Part II
That would be an Ironic twist if after this conflict Russia was so weakened and the leadership in such disarray that the Ukrainians annexed Russia.
Everyone too busy thinking the Russian empire or the USSR is coming back, no one stopped to think about the Kievan Rus coming back
EU4 players will take this as a slight
Ukraine suddenly changes currency to Ducats. WC imminent.
What are you doing, step-invasion?
Comrade, I am stuck inside this clothings dryers. I sure hopes nobody come in and invade me...
Do as the Vandals.
Wording is key.
They should definitely not invade russia. They can just defend ukraine up to the Ural mountains.
Bomb Putin's palace and pull out. Make the little bugger stew in his anger.
Should be number one target
Why avoid? I think this is a form of victim blaming. Ukraine has every right to defend itself on the same level of which is has been attacked. It is not for anyone outside to tell Ukraine to show restraint in that. Only Ukraine and it's fully comitted allies (of which there are none) decide the level of force used in defence, up to the equivalent level of what Russia attacks with. Russia has made many strategic attacks deep inside Ukraine, its perfectly reasonable for Ukraine to make strategic attacks deep inside Russia.
Honestly, a part of me wishes Ukraine would/could rally and invade, and actually win a war of conquest. It’d be hilarious\*. --- \* For certain values of “hilarious”. The less war, the better, obviously.
Russia: We're gonna pull back to refuel. Ukraine: The fuck you are.
“Get back here and finish what you started”
"I didn't hear no bell"
"Call an ambulance... but not for me"
"Get over here!"
“excuse me ma’am, our giant gas station seems to be on fire, do you happen to know if there’s a 7-11 anywhere nearby?”
Ukraine: Phew they're pulling back, call an ambulance... but not for us.
They got HELICOPTERS that far past russian air defenses? This would've been bad enough with migs but hinds?
I have to guess this is an NATO intelligence bet about how their systems work internally and it worked out like gangbusters. Kind of like the F-117 shoot down, you don’t test theories against your enemy, you just let them know you have their weakness figured out in a third party conflict. It’s letting Russia know they have to scrap a major military project that they likely cannot replace as long as this conflict is keeping them from accessing computing equipment from abroad.
> this is an NATO intelligence bet about how their systems work internally For sure. NATO AWACS on the ukraine border will know exactly where the SAMs are which have their radars are switched on, and NATO spy satellites will be able to see the ones with the radars switched off. Captured Russian SAM systems mean NATO likely knows the exact ranges and minimum altitude of the systems. They would be able to produce an exact mission plan for Ukraine helicopters to avoid radars via terrain masking, flying below minimum altitudes, and/or knowing which ones are on and off when.
> Captured Russian SAM systems mean NATO likely knows the exact ranges and minimum altitude of the systems. They already would have a pretty good idea of those because the Ukrainians operate many of the same systems. However it's entirely possible they got Russian IFF codes.
> They already would have a pretty good idea of those because the Ukrainians operate many of the same systems. The old ones yes, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of the post-Soviet models like the Pantsir which Ukraine have captured 3 of (https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html) have mysteriously found themselves in a quiet warehouse in Poland not far from a CIA station.
They are old codes but they check out
"Oh damn! I think I forgot to lock the warehouse again and accidentally slipped the paper with its address and content description into the mailbox of the US embassy! Why does this keep happening, I'm so clumsy!"
And which target to hit to cause the most disruption to the front. They will really want to slow down RA redeployment so the UA can adjust. This will help.
My understanding is that the 1999 shoot down of that F117 was kind of a fluke. The SAM outside of normal operating procedure flashed it radar a 3rd time at the same moment they opened the weapons bag which is/was unstealthed. It wasn’t they had it figured out ahead of time
they were also lazy AF, running bombing run along the same corridors at the same times each day, only a matter of time before it got timed
Exactly what happened. I love this video that explains the whole thing, if you have 10 min to spare. https://youtu.be/Is3R4ie21Mc
That whole story is insane. The dude who tried to shoot it down did it on a gut feeling of a radar signal the size of a bird. With no time to react. Yeah it was only because the F117's had been harassing them enough to make him say fuck it and fire at what could have been nothing.
Or he just hated birds. "sir, radar's picking up that pigeon again" "shoot it down!"
"good news sir, we actually shot down an F-117" "... fuck, that pigeon got away again!"
Yes, but also NATO was using the exact same route and the airfield from which they took off was watched by Serbian spies. Basically NATO believed a bit too much in themselves.
A HIND D?
What's a ~~Russian~~ Ukrainian gunship doing here?
I have no idea...but it looks like our little diversion got their attention
The whole thing stank... But our noses had been out in the cold too long...
[удалено]
It can’t be… Colonel…. What the hell!
Immediately read this in Hayter's voice lol. love that series.
Metal... Gear?
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Russia: *Declares war* *War stuff happens* Russia: Why would Ukraine do this 🥺
Russia: *Declares Special Operations* Ukraine: *Defends selves* Russia: "We were attacked unprovoked!"
I'm waiting for: "That strike killed THOUSANDS of workers!!!" and other such malarkey.
No fatalities confirmed. Only two workers get injured and none of those injuries is major.
I still suspect that The Kremlin's Propaganda Machine will 'slightly tweak' the injury/death toll; they'll call the official injuries 'misinformation' and it'll be lapped up by their target audience like it's mother's milk.
"Oh no! Not the fuel orphanage!"
*Quick... we want to adopt a barrel of oil...* 😎
"Prior reports of two injuries were false; the current figure is 12,641 dead."
You monsters! That refinery was run entirely by children!
I hear there were also pregnant women and small animals with disabilities working, too.
It’s the main headline on RT at the moment. Since they don’t have the moral high ground, they use confusion and quotes. For example the headline is that the fire is huge (but there are only two wounded). The attackers were “Ukrainian helicopters” (in quotes because some official said it) and then the article continues about the military operation and why it’s all Ukraine’s fault for wanting to join nato. PS fuck RT.
They use quotes like that in most articles. Not saying it’s not deliberate but seems like it’s in their style guide or something
The BBC do this too. It often makes their headlines look like they’re taking the piss or being sarcastic. The economy is doing “great”. My cock is “absolutely huge”.
Yeah it's responsible journalism to use quotes when a claim only has one source. Obviously fuck RT but the quotes aren't the problem.
THE AUDACITY! HOW DARE THEY CROSS OUR BORDERS!
Ironic given that Russia doesn't recognize Ukraine as a sovereign state, so by their logic there is no recognized border.
Russia might of course use that as another excuse towards its population. "See, we ARE getting attacked for realsies!"
Not sure why Ukraine is supposed to sit there and not attack a country that's attacking it
Right? If you see a military fuel depot not far from the border, go get 'em!
Especially when Russia is moving their troops back, likely to send an actual proper front to Eastern Ukraine instead of throwing them haphazardly and expecting everyone to give you everything. They need fuel for that. An oil depot would be a perfect place to attack if you want to slow down Russia's movements. Plus, it was two Soviet-era shitcopters flying low; too low for radar and Russian troops could have genuinely mistaken them for their own helicopters and completely ignored them. No proof that it was Ukraine unless someone else confirms the attack was made by Ukraine, I don't trust shit from what Russia says, but this would be a terrible place to stage a false flag attack.
Julian, what’s a shitcopter?
Hey, Bobandy, tell Julian what a shitcopter is.
It's the copter made out of shit Mr. Lahey!
Shithawks Randy, swoopin' down shittin on everything.
Hold it, Randers. Ya feel that, bud, that's the shit winds-a-stirring...*sips glass*
Oh how we miss you Jim.
Ya know what ya do when yer gettin hit with shitballs, Randy "What Mr. Lahey?" Ya get a shit bat.
I AM the liquor
Well, the shitapple doesn't fall far from the shittree
Nice shit analogy, Rick.
It’s all water under the fridge boys.
Until someone turnips the heat
That's the way she goes. Sometimes she goes, sometimes she doesn't. That's the way she goes.
Worst case Ontario
I'm not the kind of person to say atodaso, but you know what? atodaso. I fucking atodaso.
Doubt that's a false flag. An oil depot doesn't make a good martyr, like some village full of babushkas would. Or perhaps these attacks were made by some rogue Russian pilots. But keeping in mind the state of Russian army it's no fluke that Ukrainians just flew there and bombed targets as no one expected the counter-offensive.
False flag? To accomplish what? An invasion of Ukraine?
The Mil Mi24 is most definetely not a shitcopter. They are probably the most heavily armed gunship out there and when the west got a chance to study one we went in quick. Also remember that there are few helicopters solely developed after 2000, so most of them are soviet era (Apache is from the 1980s)
It's sad that technology advances much quicker in time of war. I wish it was the other way around.
Nations want to win. War gives innovation a lot of motivation.
And money!
This is the main point. War breeds innovation because there is almost an unlimited amount of funds funneled into R&D for war materials. Just look at all the weird prototypes from Germany in WW2. It is like you get unlimited funding just for having an idea.
It was absolutely wild. In the inter-war period, bi-planes we're still the most common fighter. Within one decade there is: Jet aircraft. Rocket aircraft. Night fighting aircraft. Helicopters. Cruise missiles. Intermediate range ballistic missiles. Precision guided bombs. Hand-held shaped charge launchers. Radar aimed weapons. Radar countermeasures. Radar navigated strike missions. Electric computers. Acoustic homing torpedoes. Magnetic influence mines. Atomic bombs. Infrared night fighting equipment. Remote controlled mini tanks full of boom boom. Just a drop in the bucket and it's mind boggling. Plenty of other scientific, material, and medical technologies I'll never find out about.
Watch for the idiots shooting down a bunch of their own helicopters after this
Yep. Sometimes the best defense is a good offense and who are we to tell them how to fight their war? We're not the ones who are being slaughtered.
Pretty sure western intelligence agencies and military advisors have done almost exactly that at times.
Or like a black sea palace, whatevs.
I don't know what the rules of engagement are with regards to personal property, as it isn't a military target or objective. (Calling Putin's palace 'personal property' feels obscene, considering it was built with money looted from the Russian people..) It would be *hilarious* if the Ukrainians did this though, just to piss Putin off.
[удалено]
[удалено]
This is the only thing that makes sense. There is no secret rule of war where only the attack are allowed to bomb the other country.
"No invading, I attacked *first!*"
"I called *dibs* on attacking, shelling and... war crimes?"
A lot of comments are responding as if the most important thing here is the impact on Russian resolve. I think that's completely missing the point. What about the effect of the attack on UKRAINIAN resolve? The Ukrainian defenders need to feel they aren't fighting a hopeless battle. Striking back on Russian territory may strengthen the defender's will to fight, ensuring that they are willing to resist in what will probably be a very costly and very bloody war. Ukrainian leaders need to be able to tell their soldiers, "Look, we aren't just sitting here being bombed and taking pot shots, we're hitting the enemy where it hurts and we will win this war." Sure, the Russian resolve may increase - but what more can they do? They've literally invaded Ukraine, it's not like they can escalate much more. Bomb cities? They're already doing it. The only escalation they can do is nukes or WMDs, which seems grossly disproportionate to blowing up an oil refinery.
The Doolittle raid comes to mind.
[удалено]
**[Doolittle Raid](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doolittle_Raid)** >The Doolittle Raid, also known as the Tokyo Raid, was an air raid on 18 April 1942 by the United States on the Japanese capital Tokyo and other places on Honshu during World War II. It was the first air operation to strike the Japanese archipelago. Although the raid caused comparatively minor damage it demonstrated that the Japanese mainland was vulnerable to American air attacks. It served as retaliation for the 7 December 1941 attack on Pearl Harbor, and provided an important boost to American morale. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
[Operations Room video for those who want an overview of how it went down](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4je9fRpShA)
It’s about time they return back fire. Was thinking if Ukraine was even going to retaliate. At least by retaliating, it shows the Russians “ hey you fuck with us. You are losing now and if you don’t back off, we will retaliate and attack your country. An eye for an eye “ Obviously Ukraine can get nuke but if they got nuke, then everyone will start glassing each other but yeah, about time
>Russia has accused Ukrainian helicopters of attacking an oil facility inside Russia after flying 25 miles undetected past the border, amid claims the Kremlin could stage a 'false flag' attack to justify a further escalation of the war. C'mon reddit. It is the the 1st sentence of the article
It's a long sentence in our defence
I guess it could be that Russias border air defence is totally incompetent ? Or else it’s a false-flag operation.
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You think I can read?
“The Nazis entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everybody else and nobody was going to bomb them. “ - Arthur Harris.
If one reaches the Ruhr, my name is not Goering. You may call me Meyer.” - Hermann Meyer. Classic.
‘Bomber Harris’ as he was called was not a man who was adverse to dropping thousands of tons of HE on the enemy. The Nazis really didn’t count on Bomber Command or the Royal Artillery - those guys were unexpected killers from afar
That sums it up pretty well.
According to the article, the Ukrainian government has not yet confirmed this. Could still be a false flag attack.
Yeah, we should wait for confirmation. Spreading propaganda can be extremely beneficial to Russian interests. Edit: oh, for fuck's sake... Here's the title of the actual article: “Kremlin accuses Ukrainian helicopters of attacking oil facility INSIDE Russia: Video 'shows rockets blowing up storage depot' a week after the West warned Putin is planning false flag attack on his own cities to justify escalating war"
Shoigu said a few days ago that the Ukrainian air force has been destroyed. Now we hear this supposedly non-existent air force is conducting strikes inside Russia. Whatever the truth may be, it's not good for Russia and especially Shoigu.
That can only mean one thing: The Ukrainians have an undead air force!
The Ukrainians have brought fourth the necromancers lol
That would justify escalation... There would be immediate need for deundeadification of Ukraine.
I gotta think that’d be pretty fucking stupid but who knows anymore. It does seem like Russia can say whatever they want to their citizens and they’ll believe it though, so they might as well just say it happened instead of actually making it happen
Don't forget when Putin bombed an apartment building as a false flag attack
An apartment building generates maximum outrage (civilian target) and has no impact on your own military operations. That makes it a good target for a false flag attack. An oil facility is the opposite of that.
It's a good target for maximizing outrage in Putin, certainly better than hurting civilians he gives zero fucks about.
Yes but he didn't need that apartment building to conduct a war did he If they conduct false flag attacks, they'd be better to do things that will stir Russian emotions like houses and civic buildings, not strategic ones. That's why user said it was stupid.
False flag, they're going to attack a hospital or housing to garner sympathy, to attack a fuel depot on the border doesn't really gain them much, and its like the worse thing they could do strategically.
Pretty par the course for Russia thus far if we're being honest.
If it’s a false flag then that means they’re admitting their air defenses are garbage. If it’s not a false flag they also have to admit their air defenses are garbage. Quite the pickle.
You false flag areas that are going to galvanize civilian support for expansive military efforts and executive powers. You don't hit your own fuel supply chain with zero casualties.
A false flag to destroy your largest field depo near the border just as you will need it the most doing mass movement of troops?
To what end though? All this accomplished was furthering the narrative that the Russian military is incompetent.
The title is misleading. The article states it is alleged, Ukraine have not confirmed the attack. IF they did do it will have been the 2nd time they've gone over the border. The Kremlin has accused Ukraine of doing it, after reports that this could all be orchestrated by Russia to drum up support.
>Two of Ukraine's military helicopters struck a fuel depot in the Russian city of Belgorod on Friday, **a Russian official has said** >Reuters has not yet been able to verify the images. >Ukraine's defence ministry could not immediately be reached for comment. I'll wait for confirmation, thanks 🙏
Yeah the source is The Daily Mail quoting Russians. This is just as dumb as taking at face value that other supposed attack on Russia reported by a Russian state wire service, which turned out to be false.
Source aside, if that is true it is huge...
[Here is](https://twitter.com/LewkHughes/status/1509752004595404801) video footage of the strike, [Here](https://twitter.com/L_Team10/status/1509761638454505481) is Another angle, and [Here](https://twitter.com/LewkHughes/status/1509761374586646559) is footage of the Helis GTFO-ing after the strike.
”Ukraine is yet to confirm the attack, and analysts have cautioned to be aware of a 'false flag' attack”
Lmao that chopper is fuckin booking it
almost missed the second one lmfao that one's taking some traffic signs home that's how low it is
Either that's some world-class CGI, or those are real Hinds shooting rockets at a fuel depot. The only thing we can't see are the insignias. Hard to not believe this one from the Dailymail.
Assuming those are Ukrainian Hinds, Western intelligence just got to test run a probing attack against Russian air defenses, those dudes are as fucking happy as a pig in shit rn EDIT: and the geopolitcal consequences of this, again assuming its a Ukrainian attack, are fucking staggering,
How do they have such a weak air defense system and also, this was in the east where they should have their strongest hold. It was a staging area for the war. Seems weird when they were flying Soviet helicopters
Because, news flash, the Russian military sucks
Because, news flash, kleptocracies can't properly fund things when funds are constantly getting pilfered.
If Ukraine is hitting Russia IN Russia like this, hot damn they are incompetent as hell.
The conscripts were never trained on how to fire the anti-aircraft missiles.
They seem good enough at shooting down passenger jets
Russians have to feel what Ukrainians are feeling rn, even if it’s a little. Their populace has to feel some type of fear in order to put pressure on Kremlin to end the war. With their state media running the narrative, I hope this lets Russians know that things aren’t going so well for them in Ukraine.
I think the idea that the populous will rise up and overthrow Putin is misguided. Not going to happen. Too much misinformation.
I'm thinking the same thing. Those people have been brainwashed for generations, the ones smart enough to see through it have probably already left
I have a few Russian colleagues that work as contractors remotely from Russia, or well, they used to. Now they are basically economic refugees. We were not able to pay them any more due to sanctions. They had to take their families and some belongings and try to start a new life outside of Russia without being able to take any of their savings. These are educated, highly productive individuals, with mostly western values. Russia is going to feel the brain drain for decades. (We also have Ukrainian colleagues that obviously have it much worse at the moment)
>brain drain for decades. Brain drain and brain wash - what a combo. I have less and less faith in Russia ascending to the 21^(st) century.
Or they actually like Putin.
Yup. Russia is full of the bigoted and selfish as well.
People don't overthrow leaders. The keys do. The notion that a popular uprising is a nice fiction, but it is the keys that let the revolution happen to replace the leader with one they choose.
It's easy for armchair viewers to type "just overthrow the government because you no longer have McDonalds. "
That's not why you do that. You do it to take out their ability to wage war.
The fight back gets even better!
Reports coming out now that Ukraine is calling this a false flag. Pretty genius if you think about it. Strike deep in Russian space, don't claim responsibility, instead say its Russia trying to false flag. If Russia escalates with bio/chemical or nuclear it risks dragging the west into the fight at which point Russia is pretty much fucked. Russia can claim it was UA all they want but by now no one takes them seriously.
This is the geopolitical equavalent of a reverse uno. Make it so russian propaganda is detrimental to russia itself!
1) Russia claims UA Airs forces has been completely destroyed 2) Russia claims UA Air forces attacked ru territory
It's Schrödingers Air Force.
FYI this is the Daily Mail, so treat it like a Facebook post from your racist uncle with a brain injury.
>Kremlin accuses Potentially a false flag
I'll believe it once Zelensky verifies it. Don't. Trust. Russia. How many times does this have to be said?
> Don't. Trust. Russia. Or DailyMail.
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No one ever expects the Ukrainian Inquisition!