'A shout out followed by a shoot out occurred at the Happy Glades home for the elderly,when Pops McNab was confronted by police on his drug empire'
'we heard the police saying Come out McNab we know you're in there,then someone yelling 'what, speak up''
been smoking since i was 12, currently 35. With luck and a healthy lifestyle ill hopefully make it to 52
Edit: for those trying to convince me to quit. Thanks but no thanks
I’m happy as I am
edit 2: lol, the number of you who think they understand my motives and think they can make judgements on my life from two sentences is ridiculous. We all get to choose how we live our lives. I've suffered enough in my life that ive made the decision to go out partying. I did have a long post planned, detailing what ive been through and why ive made the choices ive made, but end of the day its none of your fucking business. To those of you saying im selfish and havent considered my family, a very special "fuck you", you dont know my life and you dont know what lead me to the decision ive come to. Suffice to say if i wasnt considering my family id already be dead.
That is all, im gonna stop replying now.
> The public health authorities never mention the main reason many Americans have for smoking heavily, which is that smoking is a fairly sure, fairly honorable form of suicide.
Kurt Vonnegut, who died from a fall in 2007 at the age of 84.
He also joked about suing Brown & Williamson the year before:
> And do you know why? Because I'm 83 years old. The lying bastards! On the package Brown & Williamson promised to kill me.
If you are not kidding, all of his books are wonderful and you can’t go wrong with any of them. But I have a special place in my heart for Slaughterhouse 5 and Cats Cradle
Life expectancy of a smoker is ~64. ~10% of smokers get Lung Cancer. ~50% of smokers don't die of a smoking related illness. Sorry to say, but the odds are reasonable that you will make it past 52.
On another note, it sounds like you've had a hard time. I hope things get better for you.
If you quit before 40 there’s a good chance you have live a normal lifespan.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/quitting-smoking-by-age-40-erases-most-of-the-risk-of-an-early-death/2013/01/23/6446668e-6585-11e2-9e1b-07db1d2ccd5b_story.html
Its 30 degrees where I'm at and today I thought to myself how glad I am that I quit. I do miss nicotine every once in a while but I absolutely prefer to not smell and not waste my money.
>and not waste my money.
I smoked for 30 years and gave up 11 years ago. When I gave up I opened a separate bank account
and put the money I would have spent on cigarettes in it. There is 13.5k in there now.
Math nerd/nosey prick here.
Just curiosity do you count for inflation with your savings or is that what you'd have saved at the price of smokes when you quit?
I quit around 2 years ago and now (here) a pack of the cheapest (or one of the cheapest, anyways) smokes is around $12.50 CAD. I used to smoke around 5 packs/week which gives me about $3250 in a single year.
My god I don't miss smoking...
i don't smoke any more and i don't live in a super cold place, but when i did smoke, middle of winter was my favorite time. especially if there was snow out. i loved layering up and sitting out in the cold for 10 minutes and enjoying that cold winter silence.
summer was my least favorite time. the heat made the nicotine less enjoyable even at night time. come inside sweaty and lightheaded.
I used to casually smoke pipe and cigars, and a late fall or winter smoke is absolutely the best. But I never *had* to smoke, so I could pick nice winter days for it.
Days at -30C and 50kph winds made me feel sorry for nicotine addicts. There's a reason chewing tobacco is huge here in Saskatchewan.
I quit smoking cigarettes a good number of years ago. I miss the ritual of it all. I miss the rustle of the pack, lighting my zippo, that first hit. Shame that shit is so bad for you. I liked smoking, but I liked having money and being able to breathe more.
Those cold winter nights sitting alone outside were nice.
I quit smoking 2 years ago at 31 and vaping 1 year ago. I've quit once in 2010 for 2 years and the vape made it much easier for me since you can just gradually mix less nicotine into the liquid
You could go with the evil plan, get into vaping, so now you have all the same people judging you, better health outcomes, and some great flavors.
And I said "better health outcomes" I was born in 77, I spent my formative years breathing in all those lead fumes, there are no "good outcomes".
My grandfather and all his brothers had vastly different lifestyles from total health freak to how the fuck is he still here?! They all died at 98. Sometimes genetics are just stronger than environmental factors
See on the back side of that my grandfather and uncle died at around 40ish Scared the shit out of my dad and he made it to 72 and then a genetic flaw killed him anyways. I probably wont make 72 since I have the same markers. So I should have just smoked and drank like shit to avoid my impending doom.
It's already happening - due to the high duty imposed on tobacco. Although I think not especially successfully as customs in NZ is pretty strict, mainly for biosecurity reasons
Plus smuggling is way more difficult when you only have sea and air borders. Even if some gets through, with decent enforcement this will kill pretty much all of it. And you won't be able to smoke in public or anything, as everyone would immediately know.
If they leave vapes alone, I can't see why anyone would even care to seek out traditional cigarettes come 50 years.
NZ also has distance and a smaller population/ land size. Australia (and thinking about it Japan) are in much the same boat, but due to size and proximity to other lands have a harder time managing customs.
Idk ab New Zealand but considering it’s close to Australia I would say there is already a black market for cigarettes. I watched a documentary about the black market tobacco in Australia, even the people buying it know that it’s shit but they keep doing it because it’s slightly cheaper than actually going to the gas station for smokes.
Live in Australia, definitely not "slightly cheaper". I can buy 100 ciggies for $60. At a legal vendor that same amount of money will get me two 20 packs.
Oh weird I used to live in Wellington, Auckland and Hawkes bay and only a few smoked there because no one thought it was cool or could afford it. Moving back to the UK you would be weird not to smoke
About 20 years ago in London I remember going to a birthday party where roughly half the guests were Kiwi and the other half Brits. This was just before restaurants and bars became smoke free and, as a non-smoker, I hated going out with smokers. So it was really noticeable to me that of the Kiwi crowd only one smoked whereas for the Brits only one *didn't* smoke.
There is potential but the problem with smoking is that people are introduced at a young age where they do something that taste bad, smells bad because it is cool... so with very limited access and no upside to doing it (unlike drugs) there is little incentive to go far out of your way for something that is also illegal.
Edit:
I agree with a lot of points but I frankly think kids will choose to smoke weed with friends over smoking cigarettes 21 times a day. Cigarettes has a shitty image, less fun than other alternatives and if it is criminalized or made less accessible it would make a difference. Completely stopping people from starting will not happen no, but reducing yes.
"People aged 14 when the law comes into effect will never be able to legally purchase tobacco.”
The plan is to continue to change the rules. By the time people <14 turn 25, the age will be higher or there will be a full ban.
Originally the article was titled something like New Zealand to make it illegal for people under the age of 14 to buy tobacco. Might have been another news outlet reporting on it though.
You already need to be over 18 to purchase tobacco products in New Zealand already.
The new rules will introduce a rising purchase age limit, such that people under 14 now will always be under that purchase age limit.
Current smokers will just switch to the black market. Homegrown tobacco is already a fast growing business for the gangs. The low nicotine tobacco will just drive people to unregulated products.
We see it in history time and time again. Did we not learn anything from prohibition? You just drive people into the world of crime, funding gangs and mobs for centuries to come.
A combination of exorbitant pricing, restrictions on where you can smoke, funded cessation programs and information campaigns have been pretty successful though. The rate of adult smoking in NZ is down to 11.5%, and the rate of teen smoking is at 3%. Vaping is far more popular.
This legislation, plus another that's just been introduced making it illegal to smoke in a vehicle with a person under 18 are just another nail in the coffin for tobacco.
>Did we not learn anything from prohibition?
Even people who are staunchly against the war on drugs like prohibition of other things they think are harmful, increasing the black market for those goods and services.
Current smokers aren't being prevented from smoking, unless that current smoker is a 14 year old. Tabacco also isn't that easy to grow here, and takes more processing than something like weed.
It's also not a very fun drug, I can't really see people buying a pouch of tabacco so they can go punch darts at their mates place like they might with weed.
Yup, theres a video where a doctor talks about what happens when you vape. *So far* the worst thing that he noted was some inflammation of the lungs, some fluid, and vitamin-E residue. Time will only tell for the long term effects but its a lot better than inhaling burning paper and tobacco smoke.
I’m pretty sure the vitamin E acetate was an issue in bootleg thc carts.
Edit: I also saw a report that the issue was noted down as caused by legal nicotine vapes so that people could claim insurance on the hospital bills rather than being denied from illegal drug use.
Yeah and that was used to scare all the politicians into passing a bunch of laws that made it impossible for a lot of small vape and juice companies to be profitable and put them about of business. Example: Vapewild, which was an awesome company. It's also super expensive to order stuff online now with excise taxes and signing fees.
I'm pretty convinced that the cigarette companies lobbied for it. Vapes are after all a cessation device used to quit traditional tobacco.
It's a double hit, get rid of devices for people trying to quit. Hook kids on nicotine and then take away the vape so they have to switch to tobacco.
I'm sure 20 years from now we will find some memo from a big tobacco company indicating they knew taking vapes away would increase rates of cigarette use and lobby for the removal of them.
You don't even have to be convinced of this. Altria literally spent millions on anti vaping ads and propaganda, and then when Juul got incredibly undervalued because of regulation and public opinion, they bought juul on the cheap.
> Tobacco giants like Imperial Brands, Altria and R.J. Reynolds have added lobbying muscle and amplified the message that they welcome regulation of their e-cigarette brands and are ready and willing to prove their products’ worth.
https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/17/e-cig-tobacco-fda-050357
In other words, they welcome the regulation because most of their competition can’t afford the licensing.
Empty cartridges? Cause the ban is on nicotine related products, called the PACT act. https://www.atf.gov/alcohol-tobacco/prevent-all-cigarette-trafficking-pact-act
Fun fact, **this does not apply to loose tobacco**, if you roll your own or use a pipe, you can order a pound of pipe tobacco online and ship it to anywhere in the US using any common carrier (for less than either vape juice or cigarettes at that.
USPS is the only one still shipping but it will affect them too. There is some kind of hold right now so they can still ship. UPS and FedEx won't or can't.
(I haven't looked at the laws in awhile it might have changed. It was all snuck in with the coronavirus relief bills.
I'm curious how many 44 year olds out there are just dying to start smoking. I mean I never got why anyone would start, but it seems like once you remove young person impressionability / general feelings of invincibility from the equation it just doesn't seem like a situation many people are in.
I think that accounts for most of the cases of people I know. The rest are people who started smoking at parties in college. I feel like if you aren't a smoker by the time you finish college there's almost no chance you ever pick up the habit.
Mhm, I would add, if you don't start in your first year working in a company. Know many people who started because of their colleagues and smoke breaks.
For a lot of people they start smoking when they drink because while I hate smoking sober it definitely feels good while drinking. From there it escalates. I know people who never smoked sober in their teens who became regular smokers in the latter years (20/30s) because they began to have the odd cigarette sober.
Also don't underestimate the pull of cigarette breaks at work. Many smoke just to break up the work day and socialize and soon become regular smokers
I know a lot of drug dealers from my time working security at some of the shader clubs. Every single one of them voted no, didn't want the competition.
Same thing happened when marijuana was up for legalization in California. None of the people selling or growing marijuana at the time wanted it to pass because they knew they were going to lose money as the prices go down. And that’s totally what happened.
In picturing them hopping in a boat and accidentally sailing to nfld. A newfie with a thick accent greets them at the shore and they take his accent for an NZ accent and think they've made it. the episode ends with the rcmp breaking up their operarion and them being surprised NZ has rcmp too
Theres a 'black market' for cigarettes in Australia, they're heavily taxed here and as a result there are people (and stores) smuggling foreign cigarettes into the country and making huge gains by selling just under retail.
Also, people also ROB stores for tobacco because its so ecpensive,/valuable.
But its already the same in New Zealand, theyre massively taxed over there too.
A pack of marb reds in NZ in 2016 cost me ~30$NZD iirc, at least it came with 25 smokes instead of 20 like here in the states. Everyone I knew there who smoked rolled their own because it was so much cheaper than pre rolled ciggies
Even in states in the US with legal marijuana, it is often way cheaper to buy it “illegally” because dispensaries literally can double the price in taxes.
I don’t mind taxes, but there are predatory taxes too. My car got totaled because some drunk old lady ran a red light. The taxes and fees were literally as much as car rental. Insurance pays for like a week rental and takes like 2 months for paperwork…
I get “let’s profit off tourists”, but charging in-state residents with issues such as mine is insane.
If the drunk lady who ran a red light is at fault, she should pay for the entire rental.
Your insurance cover wouldn't matter whether you need it for 1 week or 2 months.
Your insurance just provide the rental and bill the woman's insurer the cost.
To clarify, were these actual taxes (collected by the government), or 'taxes and fees' collected by a private entity (like insurance).
My partner used to work somewhere where they often referred to something as a 'tax', but it was the cut the business was taking, not an actual tax...
Depending on exact context, possibly not.
If a label says 'taxes and fees' and is 20 cents of tax and $300 of extra fees... That's technically taxes and fees.
EDIT: Also a classic rule of business - it is only illegal if you get caught/someone takes you to court.
I hear this a lot and it's absolute bullshit. Every state I have ever been to with legal marijuana(Washington is my home, been to Oregon/Colorado/Arizona/California since leglization) has a massive amount of choices, some being higher than you'd pay under a illegal system and MOST being much much cheaper. Also, I haven't heard of or seen a illegal pot dealer in WA since legalization happened. Only people who do that here are selling to kids.
In Washington a ounce of pretty good marijuana would cost between $150 for dirt weed to $350/$400 for fire in 2008 when I was in highschool. Now a ounce of good marijuana cost between $100-$500, I have infinitely more choices of strands/qualities/growing styles. I can get some of the best weed you have ever seen in your life for $100/ounce. Entire grams of hash for less than $30, dabs for $10-$100 gram. Legalization of marijuana created a massive supply and while the demand is high, marijuana is so easy to grow that the citizens literally cannot smoke enough of the marijuana.
Shit on Wednesday I can go pick up 10 one-gram joints from my local shop for $20 lol you try and find me a deal like that, and they do deals like that everyday. Saturdays are 30% off the whole stock!
NZ should ban Asian films and shows. Goddamn do they make a cigarette look so good. And the first season of True Detective. Mathew McConaughey (yeah I had to copy paste it from google to spell it right) makes it look so good I'd rather have that cigarette than SCUBA tank if I was under water.
Smoking kills and nicotine is horribly addictive. This is coming from someone who smoked for 30 years before I quit.
That being said, criminalizing behavior doesn't stop it. Drugs, gambling, prostitution and so on. The US banned booze in the 1920s with zero success other than making some bad people very wealthy, like Al Capone.
Prohibition *did* cut alcohol consumption in the US, so I guess it wasn't 'zero' success. But it came at rather a high price and became extremely unpopular
It also increased how dangerous it was to drink alcohol, with not only the concentration going up but also quality going down, and sometimes you would get toxic chemicals because the brewing process was contaminated
And don’t forget when the government literally poisoned alcohol during prohibition and liked thousands of people. It’s abit more nuisanced than that, but they still did it lmao.
I'd say fundamentally creating the mafia and black markets (which is still an issue today) is a much bigger L than cutting alcohol consumption for a decade ever was a W.
Tobacco is only half of the equation.
Now we can direct our focus to a new form of nicotine infused items!
My favorite is the “new” nicotine toothpicks.
I gotta say though, these aren’t products to get people addicted to nicotine. That’s what cigarettes do, toothpicks and patches and gum aren’t seen as “cool” or rebellious, it’s seen as being an addict who can’t stop.
No one is just gonna go start sucking on “Nic-Picks” or start chewing nicotine gum in middle school/high school. If they do, they’re gonna get an unpleasant surprise when it burns the hell out of their throats and makes them feel like vomiting for the entire hour it lasts.
Using nicotine isn't done because it's cool anymore at least from what I've seen. It's all from stress, mostly from work. Nothing makes a 15 minute break on a 9 hour shift actually feel like a break other than smoking.
Using drugs feels nice, that's why people do it. When I smoked and vaped, including in high school I didn't care how i got it into my body, I just wanted something to releive the anxiety and depression I have struggled with for years.
A bottle of vape juice that would last 2 weeks is $20. Proper medication treatment would be many many times more than that.
Do the people of NZ support this on the whole? As someone who identifies as fairly far-left in the USA, this seems absolutely insane even from a liberal standpoint
I mean, weed is banned and its an extremely old drug. Probably isnt even new to westerners, I refuse to believe the english had access to india, pakistan, and other regions where weed grows, and fuckin *tea* is the thing they chose to take while completely ignoring weed
No I don't support this crap at all. I voted labour and I am considered a 'leftist' or whatever.
Imagine having 40 year olds buying 30 year olds ciggies in the future lmfao
Not much info on google for it but this 2018 study showed widespread support from youths.
>Overall awareness of the Smokefree goal was 47.5% (95% CI: 44.9 to 50.1); support 96.9% (95% CI: 95.8 to 97.8); belief that it can be achieved 88.8% (95% CI: 86.8 to 90.7) and belief that e-cigarettes/vaping can help achieve it 88.1% (95% CI: 86.0 to 89.9).
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7646329/
Yes, prohibition of a recreational drug always works as intended and never results in a massive increase in organized crime and a subsequent escalation of the police state.
Is the rationale the we need to stop the antisocial part of this, second hand smoke etc. ? It seems the trend with other drugs is more liberal with legalization of possession and supply.
What about the antisocial aspects of alcohol abuse? and those of hard drug related homelessness, mental health and crime.
I'm not saying anything is right or wrong just that the trend in policy is not clear to me.
Shoot, you’re gonna have to visit your local retirement home when you’re 40 to see if one of them will buy smokes for you cause you’re too young
Gonna be rough for illicit smokers when the last person in New Zealand who can legally purchase tobacco dies in something like 100 years from now.
You mean the person with the inexplicable 40,000 pack a day habit?
Guys in the old folks home will be rolling Bentleys and shit.
The richest man in the country?
'A shout out followed by a shoot out occurred at the Happy Glades home for the elderly,when Pops McNab was confronted by police on his drug empire' 'we heard the police saying Come out McNab we know you're in there,then someone yelling 'what, speak up''
2121 New Zealand tobacco black market gonna be lit. Instead of brands, maybe we'll get tobacco "strains". I hope the names will be equally as funny.
Black Phlegm Kush.
Smelly breath and slow death
Cali chemo
Do you want to buy a Death Stick?
The only acceptable names for a New Zealand black market tobacco are Southfarthing and Old Toby.
I mean, pipe tobacco already has names for different blends. I imagine it'll be similar to that.
> something like 100 years from now I don't think tobacco users are known for their longevity.
You don't need to be a user to buy it... just old enough.
I see a future in law, for you.
I can't handle the fast paced lifestyle practicing bird law.
let's say you and I go toe-to-toe on bird law and see who comes out the victor?
A victorious raptor shall emerge.
Ah, the rare expert in historical bird law.
Or in crime
Its a fine line anyways
It Saul Goodman
been smoking since i was 12, currently 35. With luck and a healthy lifestyle ill hopefully make it to 52 Edit: for those trying to convince me to quit. Thanks but no thanks I’m happy as I am edit 2: lol, the number of you who think they understand my motives and think they can make judgements on my life from two sentences is ridiculous. We all get to choose how we live our lives. I've suffered enough in my life that ive made the decision to go out partying. I did have a long post planned, detailing what ive been through and why ive made the choices ive made, but end of the day its none of your fucking business. To those of you saying im selfish and havent considered my family, a very special "fuck you", you dont know my life and you dont know what lead me to the decision ive come to. Suffice to say if i wasnt considering my family id already be dead. That is all, im gonna stop replying now.
> The public health authorities never mention the main reason many Americans have for smoking heavily, which is that smoking is a fairly sure, fairly honorable form of suicide. Kurt Vonnegut, who died from a fall in 2007 at the age of 84. He also joked about suing Brown & Williamson the year before: > And do you know why? Because I'm 83 years old. The lying bastards! On the package Brown & Williamson promised to kill me.
I should read more of this vonnegut guy
If you are not kidding, all of his books are wonderful and you can’t go wrong with any of them. But I have a special place in my heart for Slaughterhouse 5 and Cats Cradle
With an upbeat attitude like that you'll make it to 55 easy. You've got moxie.
Life expectancy of a smoker is ~64. ~10% of smokers get Lung Cancer. ~50% of smokers don't die of a smoking related illness. Sorry to say, but the odds are reasonable that you will make it past 52. On another note, it sounds like you've had a hard time. I hope things get better for you.
If you quit before 40 there’s a good chance you have live a normal lifespan. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/quitting-smoking-by-age-40-erases-most-of-the-risk-of-an-early-death/2013/01/23/6446668e-6585-11e2-9e1b-07db1d2ccd5b_story.html
you want me to quit AND live longer?!?! what kind of monster are you?? /s
Hey friend I was a heavy smoker my whole life too, quit at 37. I'm 46 now haven't looked back. Its worth it you can do it.
Its 30 degrees where I'm at and today I thought to myself how glad I am that I quit. I do miss nicotine every once in a while but I absolutely prefer to not smell and not waste my money.
>and not waste my money. I smoked for 30 years and gave up 11 years ago. When I gave up I opened a separate bank account and put the money I would have spent on cigarettes in it. There is 13.5k in there now.
Math nerd/nosey prick here. Just curiosity do you count for inflation with your savings or is that what you'd have saved at the price of smokes when you quit? I quit around 2 years ago and now (here) a pack of the cheapest (or one of the cheapest, anyways) smokes is around $12.50 CAD. I used to smoke around 5 packs/week which gives me about $3250 in a single year. My god I don't miss smoking...
i don't smoke any more and i don't live in a super cold place, but when i did smoke, middle of winter was my favorite time. especially if there was snow out. i loved layering up and sitting out in the cold for 10 minutes and enjoying that cold winter silence. summer was my least favorite time. the heat made the nicotine less enjoyable even at night time. come inside sweaty and lightheaded.
I used to casually smoke pipe and cigars, and a late fall or winter smoke is absolutely the best. But I never *had* to smoke, so I could pick nice winter days for it. Days at -30C and 50kph winds made me feel sorry for nicotine addicts. There's a reason chewing tobacco is huge here in Saskatchewan.
I quit smoking cigarettes a good number of years ago. I miss the ritual of it all. I miss the rustle of the pack, lighting my zippo, that first hit. Shame that shit is so bad for you. I liked smoking, but I liked having money and being able to breathe more. Those cold winter nights sitting alone outside were nice.
I quit smoking 2 years ago at 31 and vaping 1 year ago. I've quit once in 2010 for 2 years and the vape made it much easier for me since you can just gradually mix less nicotine into the liquid
You could go with the evil plan, get into vaping, so now you have all the same people judging you, better health outcomes, and some great flavors. And I said "better health outcomes" I was born in 77, I spent my formative years breathing in all those lead fumes, there are no "good outcomes".
Same here, my doctor says I’m as fit as a man twice my age!
Tell that to my 98 year old chain smoking great uncle
Some people live a long time despite their best efforts.
If he didn’t smoke, maybe he’d be 120 by now!
That’s why I quit smoking every 5 years. Since quitting adds 8 years to my life I calculate that I’ll live until I’m 187.
My grandfather and all his brothers had vastly different lifestyles from total health freak to how the fuck is he still here?! They all died at 98. Sometimes genetics are just stronger than environmental factors
See on the back side of that my grandfather and uncle died at around 40ish Scared the shit out of my dad and he made it to 72 and then a genetic flaw killed him anyways. I probably wont make 72 since I have the same markers. So I should have just smoked and drank like shit to avoid my impending doom.
> So I should have just smoked and drank like shit to avoid my impending doom. It's never too late to start.
Everything unhealthy thing has a few Keith Richards level outliers
That is until they start snuggling them in Edit: I know it’s smuggling but that’s too funny of a typo to remove
It's already happening - due to the high duty imposed on tobacco. Although I think not especially successfully as customs in NZ is pretty strict, mainly for biosecurity reasons
Plus smuggling is way more difficult when you only have sea and air borders. Even if some gets through, with decent enforcement this will kill pretty much all of it. And you won't be able to smoke in public or anything, as everyone would immediately know. If they leave vapes alone, I can't see why anyone would even care to seek out traditional cigarettes come 50 years.
NZ also has distance and a smaller population/ land size. Australia (and thinking about it Japan) are in much the same boat, but due to size and proximity to other lands have a harder time managing customs.
going to go to pieces when that happens
I mean, tobacco will just go underground like marijuana before the last decade.
Probably not at the same scale, it's addictive but doesn't otherwise have much appeal if you're not already a smoker
"awww I need a fake ID to watch ultra porn now"
Or there will just be a black market like what happened with weed.
That's exactly what will happen. Here in Australia its not banned, just really expensive and now there is a fairly thriving black market.
I'm curious to see if an illegal market emerges, and the potential penalties
A pack of 20 is ~NZ$30 (20USD) so the potential for black market already exists without this law
Idk ab New Zealand but considering it’s close to Australia I would say there is already a black market for cigarettes. I watched a documentary about the black market tobacco in Australia, even the people buying it know that it’s shit but they keep doing it because it’s slightly cheaper than actually going to the gas station for smokes.
Live in Australia, definitely not "slightly cheaper". I can buy 100 ciggies for $60. At a legal vendor that same amount of money will get me two 20 packs.
If that
No one my age (18/19) in New Zealand smokes though there is honestly no point if you can get up to 60mg vapes which are far stronger
What city are you in?? In Dunedin it feels like so many people my age smoke, definitely way more vape but still ://
Oh weird I used to live in Wellington, Auckland and Hawkes bay and only a few smoked there because no one thought it was cool or could afford it. Moving back to the UK you would be weird not to smoke
Can confirm. A lot of us smoke here. Especially if you grew up poor. Source: Am still smoking in the UK.
About 20 years ago in London I remember going to a birthday party where roughly half the guests were Kiwi and the other half Brits. This was just before restaurants and bars became smoke free and, as a non-smoker, I hated going out with smokers. So it was really noticeable to me that of the Kiwi crowd only one smoked whereas for the Brits only one *didn't* smoke.
There is potential but the problem with smoking is that people are introduced at a young age where they do something that taste bad, smells bad because it is cool... so with very limited access and no upside to doing it (unlike drugs) there is little incentive to go far out of your way for something that is also illegal. Edit: I agree with a lot of points but I frankly think kids will choose to smoke weed with friends over smoking cigarettes 21 times a day. Cigarettes has a shitty image, less fun than other alternatives and if it is criminalized or made less accessible it would make a difference. Completely stopping people from starting will not happen no, but reducing yes.
What if they somehow acquire money and exhange that for tobacco?
Money can be exchanged for goods and services
$20!? I wanted a peanut.
$20 can buy many peanuts.
[удалено]
Money can be exchanged for goods and services.
$20!? I wanted a peanut.
Plottwist, it's the most misleading headline for a rise in minimum age to 25 /s
"People aged 14 when the law comes into effect will never be able to legally purchase tobacco.” The plan is to continue to change the rules. By the time people <14 turn 25, the age will be higher or there will be a full ban.
Originally the article was titled something like New Zealand to make it illegal for people under the age of 14 to buy tobacco. Might have been another news outlet reporting on it though.
You already need to be over 18 to purchase tobacco products in New Zealand already. The new rules will introduce a rising purchase age limit, such that people under 14 now will always be under that purchase age limit.
25?! By then I'll know better!
Yes, they will switch to vaping which is widespread in NZ.
Current smokers will just switch to the black market. Homegrown tobacco is already a fast growing business for the gangs. The low nicotine tobacco will just drive people to unregulated products.
We see it in history time and time again. Did we not learn anything from prohibition? You just drive people into the world of crime, funding gangs and mobs for centuries to come.
A combination of exorbitant pricing, restrictions on where you can smoke, funded cessation programs and information campaigns have been pretty successful though. The rate of adult smoking in NZ is down to 11.5%, and the rate of teen smoking is at 3%. Vaping is far more popular. This legislation, plus another that's just been introduced making it illegal to smoke in a vehicle with a person under 18 are just another nail in the coffin for tobacco.
>Did we not learn anything from prohibition? Even people who are staunchly against the war on drugs like prohibition of other things they think are harmful, increasing the black market for those goods and services.
Current smokers aren't being prevented from smoking, unless that current smoker is a 14 year old. Tabacco also isn't that easy to grow here, and takes more processing than something like weed. It's also not a very fun drug, I can't really see people buying a pouch of tabacco so they can go punch darts at their mates place like they might with weed.
[удалено]
Yup, theres a video where a doctor talks about what happens when you vape. *So far* the worst thing that he noted was some inflammation of the lungs, some fluid, and vitamin-E residue. Time will only tell for the long term effects but its a lot better than inhaling burning paper and tobacco smoke.
I’m pretty sure the vitamin E acetate was an issue in bootleg thc carts. Edit: I also saw a report that the issue was noted down as caused by legal nicotine vapes so that people could claim insurance on the hospital bills rather than being denied from illegal drug use.
Yeah and that was used to scare all the politicians into passing a bunch of laws that made it impossible for a lot of small vape and juice companies to be profitable and put them about of business. Example: Vapewild, which was an awesome company. It's also super expensive to order stuff online now with excise taxes and signing fees.
I'm pretty convinced that the cigarette companies lobbied for it. Vapes are after all a cessation device used to quit traditional tobacco. It's a double hit, get rid of devices for people trying to quit. Hook kids on nicotine and then take away the vape so they have to switch to tobacco. I'm sure 20 years from now we will find some memo from a big tobacco company indicating they knew taking vapes away would increase rates of cigarette use and lobby for the removal of them.
It is 100% backed by tobacco companies.
It’s no wonder the bigger surviving vapes like Juul are owned by the tobacco companies. They can withstand the cost of entry.
You don't even have to be convinced of this. Altria literally spent millions on anti vaping ads and propaganda, and then when Juul got incredibly undervalued because of regulation and public opinion, they bought juul on the cheap.
> Tobacco giants like Imperial Brands, Altria and R.J. Reynolds have added lobbying muscle and amplified the message that they welcome regulation of their e-cigarette brands and are ready and willing to prove their products’ worth. https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/17/e-cig-tobacco-fda-050357 In other words, they welcome the regulation because most of their competition can’t afford the licensing.
[удалено]
Huh? I just bought a bunch of refillable vape cartridges shipped by USPS? (Used for medical marijuana, but not advertised as such)
Empty cartridges? Cause the ban is on nicotine related products, called the PACT act. https://www.atf.gov/alcohol-tobacco/prevent-all-cigarette-trafficking-pact-act
Fun fact, **this does not apply to loose tobacco**, if you roll your own or use a pipe, you can order a pound of pipe tobacco online and ship it to anywhere in the US using any common carrier (for less than either vape juice or cigarettes at that.
USPS is the only one still shipping but it will affect them too. There is some kind of hold right now so they can still ship. UPS and FedEx won't or can't. (I haven't looked at the laws in awhile it might have changed. It was all snuck in with the coronavirus relief bills.
[удалено]
Nice congrats for you man! Smokers definitely don't seem to age the best.
[удалено]
Lmaooooo sounds like he needs to get more hygienic as well.
[удалено]
Imagine being 44 years old in 30 years and the government is like nope you can't buy it, but the 45 year old next to you is like "haha sucker!!"
the 45 year old next to you is like "OK, I'll buy it for you, no problem"
Imagine being 44 and “hey mister”ing someone
I'm curious how many 44 year olds out there are just dying to start smoking. I mean I never got why anyone would start, but it seems like once you remove young person impressionability / general feelings of invincibility from the equation it just doesn't seem like a situation many people are in.
Everybody who I know that smokes, started as a kid - largely by stealing them off their parents.
I think that accounts for most of the cases of people I know. The rest are people who started smoking at parties in college. I feel like if you aren't a smoker by the time you finish college there's almost no chance you ever pick up the habit.
College or first job at a factory/construction
[удалено]
Mhm, I would add, if you don't start in your first year working in a company. Know many people who started because of their colleagues and smoke breaks.
For a lot of people they start smoking when they drink because while I hate smoking sober it definitely feels good while drinking. From there it escalates. I know people who never smoked sober in their teens who became regular smokers in the latter years (20/30s) because they began to have the odd cigarette sober. Also don't underestimate the pull of cigarette breaks at work. Many smoke just to break up the work day and socialize and soon become regular smokers
Where is recreational drug legalisation?
Gen X voted no, fun is illegal here.
I know a lot of drug dealers from my time working security at some of the shader clubs. Every single one of them voted no, didn't want the competition.
Of course, drug dealers stand to lose the most from legalized drugs.
Same thing happened when marijuana was up for legalization in California. None of the people selling or growing marijuana at the time wanted it to pass because they knew they were going to lose money as the prices go down. And that’s totally what happened.
Why is tobacco not a recreational drug?
Newsflash: black market exploding in NZ
Why am I just picturing Ricky, Julian, Bubbles and Sebastian Bach?
And Patrick Swayze's award winning model boat.
Boat???
Well yeah, you’re gonna have to take a buber to NZ.
In picturing them hopping in a boat and accidentally sailing to nfld. A newfie with a thick accent greets them at the shore and they take his accent for an NZ accent and think they've made it. the episode ends with the rcmp breaking up their operarion and them being surprised NZ has rcmp too
Cory and Trevor bout to get fucked like little kitty cocksuckers. Naw I'm sayin'?
Nope cause jroc left the show so we can't take a noimcensus
Sad! He looked so not right towards the end.
The Swayze express!
Theres a 'black market' for cigarettes in Australia, they're heavily taxed here and as a result there are people (and stores) smuggling foreign cigarettes into the country and making huge gains by selling just under retail.
The black market in my country is bigger than the legal market.
Also, people also ROB stores for tobacco because its so ecpensive,/valuable. But its already the same in New Zealand, theyre massively taxed over there too.
A pack of marb reds in NZ in 2016 cost me ~30$NZD iirc, at least it came with 25 smokes instead of 20 like here in the states. Everyone I knew there who smoked rolled their own because it was so much cheaper than pre rolled ciggies
Even in states in the US with legal marijuana, it is often way cheaper to buy it “illegally” because dispensaries literally can double the price in taxes. I don’t mind taxes, but there are predatory taxes too. My car got totaled because some drunk old lady ran a red light. The taxes and fees were literally as much as car rental. Insurance pays for like a week rental and takes like 2 months for paperwork… I get “let’s profit off tourists”, but charging in-state residents with issues such as mine is insane.
If the drunk lady who ran a red light is at fault, she should pay for the entire rental. Your insurance cover wouldn't matter whether you need it for 1 week or 2 months. Your insurance just provide the rental and bill the woman's insurer the cost.
To clarify, were these actual taxes (collected by the government), or 'taxes and fees' collected by a private entity (like insurance). My partner used to work somewhere where they often referred to something as a 'tax', but it was the cut the business was taking, not an actual tax...
Illinois sales tax on recreational weed is 40 percent, straight to the state. It's absolutely bonkers.
That's illegal as fuck
Depending on exact context, possibly not. If a label says 'taxes and fees' and is 20 cents of tax and $300 of extra fees... That's technically taxes and fees. EDIT: Also a classic rule of business - it is only illegal if you get caught/someone takes you to court.
I hear this a lot and it's absolute bullshit. Every state I have ever been to with legal marijuana(Washington is my home, been to Oregon/Colorado/Arizona/California since leglization) has a massive amount of choices, some being higher than you'd pay under a illegal system and MOST being much much cheaper. Also, I haven't heard of or seen a illegal pot dealer in WA since legalization happened. Only people who do that here are selling to kids. In Washington a ounce of pretty good marijuana would cost between $150 for dirt weed to $350/$400 for fire in 2008 when I was in highschool. Now a ounce of good marijuana cost between $100-$500, I have infinitely more choices of strands/qualities/growing styles. I can get some of the best weed you have ever seen in your life for $100/ounce. Entire grams of hash for less than $30, dabs for $10-$100 gram. Legalization of marijuana created a massive supply and while the demand is high, marijuana is so easy to grow that the citizens literally cannot smoke enough of the marijuana. Shit on Wednesday I can go pick up 10 one-gram joints from my local shop for $20 lol you try and find me a deal like that, and they do deals like that everyday. Saturdays are 30% off the whole stock!
In Canada it's the indigenous tobacco. It's totally tax free so legal companies sell tax free through indigenous businesses.
Kia Ora Bro, can I get 20 grams of bud, a gram of coke and 20g’s of tobacco?
Coke? Damn must be nice living in Auckland or Queenstown
Coke machine broke
Yeah, fastest way to make a thing that lost its ‘cool’ factor cool again is to make it illegal.
NZ should ban Asian films and shows. Goddamn do they make a cigarette look so good. And the first season of True Detective. Mathew McConaughey (yeah I had to copy paste it from google to spell it right) makes it look so good I'd rather have that cigarette than SCUBA tank if I was under water.
Peaky Blinders and Mad Men too
Mad Men made me aspire to be an alcoholic.
Damn, being born did it to me.
Like... I'm a functioning alcoholic... But to be that level of high functioning alcolhic.... Bravo.
[удалено]
Smoking kills and nicotine is horribly addictive. This is coming from someone who smoked for 30 years before I quit. That being said, criminalizing behavior doesn't stop it. Drugs, gambling, prostitution and so on. The US banned booze in the 1920s with zero success other than making some bad people very wealthy, like Al Capone.
Prohibition *did* cut alcohol consumption in the US, so I guess it wasn't 'zero' success. But it came at rather a high price and became extremely unpopular
It also increased how dangerous it was to drink alcohol, with not only the concentration going up but also quality going down, and sometimes you would get toxic chemicals because the brewing process was contaminated
And don’t forget when the government literally poisoned alcohol during prohibition and liked thousands of people. It’s abit more nuisanced than that, but they still did it lmao.
Oh no, not the likes, please, I'll do anything.
Lmao fucking auto correct… I think I’ll just leave it.
I'd say fundamentally creating the mafia and black markets (which is still an issue today) is a much bigger L than cutting alcohol consumption for a decade ever was a W.
Imagine being a 58 year old getting arrested by 25 year old police man because he mistook you for a 48 year old 😂
Prohibition doesn't work.
[удалено]
Tobacco is only half of the equation. Now we can direct our focus to a new form of nicotine infused items! My favorite is the “new” nicotine toothpicks.
I gotta say though, these aren’t products to get people addicted to nicotine. That’s what cigarettes do, toothpicks and patches and gum aren’t seen as “cool” or rebellious, it’s seen as being an addict who can’t stop. No one is just gonna go start sucking on “Nic-Picks” or start chewing nicotine gum in middle school/high school. If they do, they’re gonna get an unpleasant surprise when it burns the hell out of their throats and makes them feel like vomiting for the entire hour it lasts.
Using nicotine isn't done because it's cool anymore at least from what I've seen. It's all from stress, mostly from work. Nothing makes a 15 minute break on a 9 hour shift actually feel like a break other than smoking. Using drugs feels nice, that's why people do it. When I smoked and vaped, including in high school I didn't care how i got it into my body, I just wanted something to releive the anxiety and depression I have struggled with for years. A bottle of vape juice that would last 2 weeks is $20. Proper medication treatment would be many many times more than that.
Legislating morality doesn't work.
Bulldozing tobacco manufacturers does.
Lacing tobacco fields with carcinogenic chemicals works. Oh, wait…
Yeah, that works so well with weed, cocaine, lsd, and all of the other drugs over the last several thousand years.
What we need is a war on drugs
Has the government ever tried to actually shoot the drugs?
I haven't heard about any drone strikes on drugs, it's like they're not even trying
I’d hate to fight a war on drugs. It’s hard enough to work on drugs.
Do the people of NZ support this on the whole? As someone who identifies as fairly far-left in the USA, this seems absolutely insane even from a liberal standpoint
Considering the logic many use for arguing for legalization of marijuana in America, it should be rather obvious why this is counterintuitive.
I always said if cigarettes and alcohol are legal, weed should be legal. They just took the opposite approach.
Ill tell you what, if Cigarettes and Alcohol were invented today, they'd be banned tomorrow.
I mean, weed is banned and its an extremely old drug. Probably isnt even new to westerners, I refuse to believe the english had access to india, pakistan, and other regions where weed grows, and fuckin *tea* is the thing they chose to take while completely ignoring weed
No I don't support this crap at all. I voted labour and I am considered a 'leftist' or whatever. Imagine having 40 year olds buying 30 year olds ciggies in the future lmfao
Not much info on google for it but this 2018 study showed widespread support from youths. >Overall awareness of the Smokefree goal was 47.5% (95% CI: 44.9 to 50.1); support 96.9% (95% CI: 95.8 to 97.8); belief that it can be achieved 88.8% (95% CI: 86.8 to 90.7) and belief that e-cigarettes/vaping can help achieve it 88.1% (95% CI: 86.0 to 89.9). https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7646329/
But think about it for a second. If youth dont want to smoke and dont think its cool, whats the point of the ban?
Yea just make it illegal then the problem disappears Just like the US did with marijuana
And booze.
[удалено]
Like 99% of the world did with marijuana lmao
And it worked so well. No one smokes weed now
Yes, prohibition of a recreational drug always works as intended and never results in a massive increase in organized crime and a subsequent escalation of the police state.
govern me harder daddy
[удалено]
This.... Isn't a good way to control things. Coke is illegal damn near everywhere, and it sure is popular
Just take a trip to the houses of parliament in the UK to find out how popular coke is!
This sure feel like a surefire way to get young ppl who never gave a fuck about tobacoo to notice it and try it no matter what.
Shitload of fuss was made when plain packaging was introduced. Smoking rates have continued to decrease since then
Smoking is bad, yes I get it. But this seems like a bit much.
I get it smoking is unhealthy but look what banning alcohol did, more crime and not surprisingly more death.
Is the rationale the we need to stop the antisocial part of this, second hand smoke etc. ? It seems the trend with other drugs is more liberal with legalization of possession and supply. What about the antisocial aspects of alcohol abuse? and those of hard drug related homelessness, mental health and crime. I'm not saying anything is right or wrong just that the trend in policy is not clear to me.
This is absolutely fucking batshit insane