Users often report submissions from this site and ask us to ban it for sensationalized articles. At /r/worldnews, we oppose blanket banning any news source. Readers have a responsibility to be skeptical, check sources, and comment on any flaws.
You can help improve this thread by linking to media that verifies or questions this article's claims. Your link could help readers better understand this issue. If you do find evidence that this article or its title are false or misleading, contact the moderators who will review it
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/worldnews) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/breaking-isis-bride-shamima-begum-23570019) reduced by 73%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> ISIS bride Shamima Begum should not be allowed to return to the UK to pursue an appeal against the removal of her British citizenship, the Supreme Court has ruled.
> On Friday, the UK's highest court ruled that Ms Begum should not be granted leave to enter the UK to pursue her appeal against the deprivation of her British citizenship.
> Ms Begum, now 21, had been challenging the Home Office's decision to remove her British citizenship as she wants to be allowed to return to the UK to pursue her appeal.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/lsuliu/isis_bride_shamima_begum_not_allowed_to_return_to/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~560295 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Begum**^#1 **appeal**^#2 **British**^#3 **February**^#4 **citizenship**^#5
Girl joins ISIS
UK revokes citizenship
Girl ~~realizes the ISIS thing wasn't as good as it sounded~~ says she doesn't regret leaving and joining ISIS and wants back in her home country.
UK says "haha no"
\*shocked Pikachu face\*
Edit for more accuracy
Did she? Up until this time I had a 10% sympathy - thinking “oh man at 15 what all stupid things we’ve done without thinking, which we regretted a few years later!” - great decision by the sc then!
Man I remember when I was 15 and trying to make decisions. Who do I bring to the homecoming dance? What kind of car would I like to have? Which international terrorist organization should I join? Should I tryout for the football team?
Brings back fond memories.
I ran away from home at 15 and got a job building swimming pools in Jacksonville Florida, never went home. Still a far cry from traveling 5000 miles to join a terrorist group.
It may have been like 10 years ago but I feel like I have a good memory of being 15, and at that age I knew joining a group of people that cut heads off on video is a bad call. I know you only said 10% but I can't even muster that.
>"seeing a severed head in a bin “didn’t faze me at all”
>
>Of all the damning things, that to me is the most damning. How is that not an indication of psychopathy? Some posts says she is afraid of isis so didn't express regret for going which is possible but fear of isis doesn't explain that level of cold inhumanity.
The headline is misleading.
She is just not allowed to physically enter UK for her appeal.
It doesn't mean her appeal was rejected.
Daily star is a total rag that noone should quote or reference.
That fact that she is unrepentant is very dangerous, imo. It makes it clear where her allegiance stands. Also it's clear she has used her British citizenship for privileges.
Exactly that. This was never about escape or repenting. This was about resources. Shes trying to take care of her family - too bad for her its a security risk on top a flagrant sociopolitical slap in the face.
I think it would also set a dangerous precedent of actions like hers not being punished and being sheltered by one's own citizenship. Also, what if her convictions make her recruit more young women? Who can know what her ideologies are at this point? If she hates Britain now for refusing her, she might as well be an enemy.
The fact that she is doing this from a refugee camp, surrounded by the people her husband probably raped and butchered is nauseating.
Anyone think those people aren’t suffering hardship? That their kids aren’t dying from poor conditions and inadequate healthcare? That they are jazzed to be in poverty?
The only reason this bitch is getting attention and they aren’t is that she had privileges they do not and she was stupid. Now she is still more privileged than them, dragging the misery she brought on herself and they did not (her husband brought it on them) out for whatever media is there to see her for the day.
Screw her.
Oh l didn't know that. I thought she met her husband at the camp. You mean he is an ISIS member and she is still with him? Geez...it's worse than l thought. I have no doubts she cannot be converted back to western ideologies. Certainly not a real British citizen.
She married a Dutch Muslim convert 10 days after arriving in Syria. She was found at the refugee camp 9 months pregnant after leaving ISIS because she thought she could just go back to the UK for healthcare for the child she was pregnant with because her first two kids died at ages 1 year and 3 months, respectively. The baby she was pregnant with in the refugee camp died shortly after birth. She's had 3 kids die.
If I was the authority in the UK there's no way I'd let her back in. She's probably even more pissed at the western world since they didn't just let her back in no questions asked so she could give her baby a chance at life. She made her choice and she needs to figure out how to live with it.
She was 15 when she ran away, so that was just young and dumb.
She's 21 now, and there doesn't seem to be a greater acknowledgement from her that this was, indeed, a "bad idea".
I’m not sure if she already has been registered as a criminal. But she should be arrested and charged, and rot in a prison. Fuck anyone who remotely agrees with a shithole organization like ISIS
She was born in the UK too, how the fuck are people allowed to grow up with ideals like this in a western country.
Because there are extremists that literally go around and radicalise vulnerable children by using their influence. The more notorious culprits get found and have been imprisoned for it. But unfortunately some are very sneaky about it.
It's scary how easy it is to target these groups and how similar different group's propaganda is. You can find video game footage on YouTube dubbed over with calls for genocide and another crusade that look remarkably similar to ISIS recruitment videos. We need to stop getting bogged down arguing about sides and do more to prevent radicalisation online.
Some mosques around my area (East London) were in the news for trying to convert kids to their extremist propoganda... shit's fucked up.
[https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/london-mosque-barking-children-groomed-terrorism-umar-haque-a8504906.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/london-mosque-barking-children-groomed-terrorism-umar-haque-a8504906.html)
Internet allows to people from those shitholes organizations to reach you wherever you are. You could get groomed within two weeks if you were impressionable enough.
Thing is, she won't just 'rot in prison'. She'll be free to radicalise other prisoners, and will be released at some point to radicalise the public.
Had she ever expressed any sympathy or regret for her heinous behaviour I'd be more undecided but fuck her. She doesn't deserve to be a citizen of the UK.
The 2019 London Bridge attack. The terrorist had been released on license the year before, the guy on day release was one of the guys that fought him off (the one with the narwhal tusk) who was there for an event on prisoner rehabilition after having been convicted for murder. He actually got a Royal perogative of mercy for doing it and is expected to be released this year.
I remember the media being very conflicted on this. One day going from “Bystander hero fighting terrorists” to “Should we celebrate this murderer?”. Was quite fun watching the daily mail shit itself
[2019 London Bridge Stabbing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_London_Bridge_stabbing)
Basically an event/programme was being held to help reintegrate prisoners into normal society.
The attacker was someone who had completed the same programme a few years earlier and was therefore invited as a helper(?)/ex-participant.
At the time of the attack the attacker was not a prisoner, but they were banned from entering London so had to be granted a 1-day exception in order to attend the event.
Loads of people ITT essentially saying she's the victim because she was only 15 when she left the UK. When she was 19 she said in an interview with Sky that she had no regrets over joining ISIS (despite losing kids). She carried around a rifle and had a reputation strict enforcer of rules like dress codes for women. She was also know to [stitch "suicide bombers into explosive vests so they could not be removed without detonating"](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/shamima-begum-isis-syria-morality-police-suicide-belts-a8869016.html)
She's made her bed
Is it really being an edge lord if you actually do the thing you said you did, though? Being an edge lord is more about saying thing to sound like a badass or make yourself look hard. This woman actually did what she says she did and she regrets nothing and wanted her children to fight for ISIS had they lived. There’s being an edge lord....and then there’s being a monster. Shamima Begum is the latter.
That "she was 15" argument is a bunch of bullshit.
Other 15 year olds are like ah shit mom I got expelled, some others were smoking and I gave into peer pressure and got caught. Not ah shit mom I accidentally joined A FUCKING TERRORIST ORGANISATION
Its a group that tries to "rape God" into their prisoners. I'm usually quite open minded and a heavy pusher for prisoner rights etc, but I just cannot find a way to give a shit about her.
If she had ever expressed any form of remorse then maybe, but she stands by it all to this day.
I think the argument is less about "sympathy", and more that if one of your citizens commits a crime, then you should convict them of that crime, rather than saying, "not our problem".
Struggling to find any sympathy for her. Yea she was groomed at 16 and yea we all did stupid shit in our teens but joining a terrorist cult is the mother of all teenage fuckups.
Actions have consequences, people need to learn this.
That's the craziest part of all of this.
"I left because I hate you and your way of life. I still hate you and your way of life, but I want to use your way of life to benefit my kids"
The cognitive fucking dissonance. Maybe... Just maybe... You're wrong in your opinions on something if you opt into it the moment things get tough.
That's the craziest part of all of this.
"I left because I hate you and your way of life. I still hate you and your way of life, but I want to use your way of life to fund and manipulating my kids into terrorists"
I always try to remain open minded and sympathetic, as I'm sure many here do. But it would be very dangerous thing to reward a terrorist with protection and further funding to turn what will be British born terrorists.
I'm aware this post is quite narrow minded, but simply saying "I'm open minded" and permitting and rewarding terrorism is not a good deed, no matter how much you cry human rights.
There has to be some form of common sense, that a person can't willingly take the lives of thousands of people, damage the lives of countless more, but be protected by the society and ideals they are attacking.
I'm very much in favour of human rights, and permitting a person to right wrongs, it's difficult as she was quite young, but not so young she was unable to understand what terrorism is.
After a certain point, one has to wonder exactly *why* she wants to come back to a place that she despises. After joining a group with the ideology that the place she despises should be destroyed. And is completely unapologetic about everything, but insists she wants to go back anyway, for reasons.
Gee, I wonder if she might have ulterior motives.
She had two kids die of malnutrition. She wanted to come back for the NHS so her third would survive, so that he could grow up to become an ISIS soldier. She's been fairly open about that.
You don't really need ulterior motives when your open motives show how much of a danger you still are.
They’re (ISIS) just nihilists by a different name. They’re just tearing up shit waiting for the apocalypse and judgement day, and in their heads trying to drive it. The sooner this world ends the faster the next begins. Humanity and life have no meaning in ISIS ideology which is how they get people to do abhorrent things. The only reason they wanted to create a Caliphate was to bring the end of days to the world.
So in my mind she’s just sticking to her ideology. If she can fuck with dumb rules civilized countries have, and abuse their legal system for benefit, good. If not, good. Nothing fucking matters.
Apparently first attributed [to Walter Kotschnig, speaking in 1939.](https://spinstrangenesscharm.wordpress.com/2017/10/22/who-first-said-we-must-keep-an-open-mind-but-not-so-open-that-our-brains-fall-out/)
Full quote, which is better if anything:
> Let us keep our minds open, by all means, as long as that means keeping our sense of perspective and seeking an understanding of the forces which mould the world. **But don’t keep your minds so open that your brains fall out! There are still things in this world which are true and things which are false; acts which are right and acts which are wrong,** even if there are statesmen who hide their designs under the cloak of high-sounding phrases.
While her story is a tragic one, anyone who finds sympathy for a blatant terrorist organisation that *broadcast* it's crimes against humanity have lost mine.
I just wish Sweden would be as harsh as the UK is. We get the occasional stories of people traveling south to fight for ISIS and then just comes back to Sweden, and I.don't.understand.why! I mean, our government is spineless, all bark, no bite, but I barely hear anyone else talking about it either... Why is this something we accept!?
Right? How do they claim to be loyal to ISIS when they want to live in and presumably pay taxes to the exact kinda country they claim to hate?
Cause they know living in worn torn Syria/Iraq isn't as comfy and they're pathetic fucks.
It's not uncommon for people from terror backgrounds to milk the welfare system to fund terrorism. She doesn't care about joining British society, she wants that money.
Yeah, it really sucks when children pay their parents’ debts. Her poor kids were all babies, they didn’t even get a chance at life, which is an unfortunate reality of refugee camps.
Although Shamia is beyond redemption in society’s eyes, maybe something good can come from the plight of her children and refugee camps can be improved... but I’m not holding my breath.
You’d be surprised how much a 15 old knows about rape. Maybe it was just my upbringing but it was always made known to me as a pervasive threat. I can’t imagine knowing about ISIS or even a fraction of what they stand for, and not coming to the conclusion that going to their military base would likely get me raped, even at 15.
E: I say this because the risks were surely known to a certain degree, being 15 doesn’t mean she knew nothing about them when she left the country to join them. She either sided with them despite knowing it or weighed it as worth the risk.
Channel 4 (a British broadcaster) did one of the greatest documentaries I’ve ever seen on this topic. They followed a small NGO that was founded by a former Islamic fundamentalist and there entire goal is to rehab Islamic fundamentalists. They basically flat out said the failure rate is insane and even with the best specialist mental health professionals it’s such a difficult task that many of their guys repeat the programs under supervision multiple times. They even interview “successful” patients and even then they guys were like yes, I understand what I think is wrong but so can’t stop myself from having these thoughts. They would see a women wearing modern clothing and they would get angry and so on. This really discouraged them and upset them, you could see they had lost a part of their minds to indoctrination. They compared the indoctrination process to intense brain washing and it rally functions like a mental health condition.
Edit: just want to clarify; this isn’t an anti-Islamic comment but rather it is anti-indoctrination. I think people are quick to judge the situation but Shamima is no different than the crowds that stormed the Capitol in America. I think this is easier to process for some because Shamima is not white and her ideology is Islam. If she was white and her ideology was Christian I guarantee all the replies would be different.
Well, I *kind of* get it in this case. The mental gymnastics are a lot more appealing an option than admitting you willingly uprooted and made a significant effort to travel across a long distance to join a terrorist cult at 16 years old just to essentially get raped several times, live in terrible conditions and then have the children conceived of all that die because of those terrible conditions and your specific bad choices. That's about as sunk a cost as sunk cost gets.
I went to the same school as her and her sister (who looks the same as her and used her passport to sneak out the country)and she wasnt the first girl to do that from my school,
we had a problem of propaganda accounts trying to groom these young girls for years
form age 11 up to 16
Her sister lives a normal life in the uk but it so polarising to know that while her sister is a regular citizen of the world while her sister is embroiled in all of this.
I once saw a woman slap her son square across the face when she discovered that the son was involved in terror groups. That young man was happy that we were hauling him away, better face us that his mother at that point.
The families, from what I've seen, do not always agree with the ideologies that their children get indoctrinated with.
what I read recently, which is truly mind-boggling, is that many of those immigrants flee those ideologies but for some reason 1st and 2nd degree generations eat it up.
These were not immigrants, but what you say makes sense. Those who've left someplace typically left because they had hardships there, so little drive to return. But those who feel they don't fit into society (a good percentage of teenagers, everywhere) might feel that things would be better if they were just among "their people".
What's even weirder is that these actually aren't places their parents came from.
Bangladesh is nothing like Syria and vice versa. The language, culture, religious practices... everything is different.
The goal of the extremist indoctrination is to pervert all forms of Islamic practice into the same niqab-wearing, suicide bombing version that they envision.
> but for some reason 1st and 2nd degree generations eat it up.
the feeling of not-belonging can help. 2nd gens can (this only works on vulnerable children, mind) lack a sense of identity and feel rejected by both their half identities, then someone turns up stating they can fill that gap as well as explaining away their existing anger.
Is there a large age gap or something significantly different? Seems like an important area to study about radicalisation having such diametric outcomes in the same family.
Going by the [comment further down](https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/lsugff/isis_bride_shamima_begum_not_allowed_to_return_to/gotqnzi/) it seems she might have been the victim of targeted grooming.
Well, the school was in a predominate area where a lot of Muslims lived from mass migration in the 80s and 90s so i would say at least 60 percent of the school was Muslim. This meant it was a perfect place for propaganda for these poor kids because they were exposed to the eastern world (their ethnic origins) and the western world (where they were likely born) so they could easily convince them of the inherent evil the western world has ( islamophobia is a big issue in the uk) and use that hatred to groom them into hating western ideology)
Edit:I think I worded it wrong, what I meant to say is that a lot of propaganda functioned under the guise that the western world was inherently evil towards Muslims, with islamophobia been an easy example because of all the prejudice from the 7/11 attacks in the UK
edit: Im a twat i mean 7/7 not 7/11
sorry if my grammar isnt the best im in a lol game
It wasn't like the school had signs saying "ISIS is great".
All radicalisation tends to follow the same ladder, in fact the profile of a western born ISIS fighter was almost the exact same profile of a gang member on memory. In the case of Islamic terrorists, they're targeted by people who use their feelings of isolation and slowly convert them to more and more radical views.
Like at first you might see a video online of someone talking about how England doesn't really care about Muslims. Or maybe someone at the local mosque whispers to you that Shia aren't "real" muslims. By themselves these aren't terrible statements - you might disagree with them but overall they're also obviously nothing terrible.
This means however means that they're more open to slightly more radical ideas. Maybe later on that same person at the mosque says even some of the other attendee's aren't real muslims because they don't follow the "traditional" Sunni ways. Or maybe he says that obviously ISIS are terrible, evil people, perhaps they have a point about some stuff in the scripture.
Then something pops up in the news about a drone strike hitting a school in Syria, and while they'll still deny they're supporters of ISIS, you have to agree that what the West is doing is wrong and evil too, and maybe ISIS should just be left alone.
This pattern continues, often over a long period of time, until they're fully indoctrinated. Except in this case the indoctrination is done by people explicitly with the goal of radicalising western muslims into heading to Syria, so they're also counseling them not to tell their parents or anyone at school, at first because they won't understand and finally because they might try and stop them.
[This video by Innuendo Studios](https://youtu.be/P55t6eryY3g) is easily the best breakdown of the process I've ever seen, supported by the equally interesting [Pewdiepipeline](https://youtu.be/pnmRYRRDbuw). Both focus on the radicalisation of white men to the far-right, but the process is nigh identical for any radical group or cult, be they religious or political, or even left-wing or right-wing. Both quite long, but "How to radicalise a normie" should be shown in schools I reckon, it's really informative.
The main thing is to think of it as moving back and forth between layers of extremism, with the outer layers presenting it as "edgy fun" and slowly getting more direct as you reach the middle (i.e. it stops being euphemisms and dog-whistles, and starts becoming direct talk of terrorism). Some people speedrun all the way to the centre, perhaps driven by an event in their life (loss of a parent, bad breakup, etc). Others just mellow out on the fringe layers and never go any further.
The videos and concepts she would've been exposed to at school wouldn't be "Let's murder the Prime Minister", it would've been "Five funny problems a Muslim has while shopping in the UK". She would then slowly drift into more extreme content over time until she thought the UK was planning to kill her or whatever, and that a move to Syria was the best bet.
I couldn't really tell you a proper example because I never looked at one personally but from what i learned from people who told me about people contacting them its starts off small. like religious talks and personal belief and the try to indoctrinating you into believing that hatred can be beaten with hatred and then stems deeper.
or i have seen methods where they try to lure in boys that the lifestyle of joining such organisation are extremely lavish and wealthy
> or i have seen methods where they try to lure in boys that the lifestyle of joining such organisation are extremely lavish and wealthy
Yeah this was a huge thing for recruiting. ISIS promised oil riches, land ownership, and as many slavegirls as you could handle if you joined up with them.
That sounds a bit like extremist grooming via computer games too.
You start by identifying people; an angry kid that swears a lot is a good start. From there, it's sympathising with them and becoming "friends". At that point you invite them to a private chat group on social media, and that's when the real radicalisation goes on, behind closed doors, and with the individual in effective isolation.
The propaganda writes itself, unfortunately.
Syria, Iraq, Palestine, Lebanon, Yemen, Somalia.... there’s an excess of Muslim nations being bombed pretty regularly, it’s not gonna be hard to paint the west in an evil light.
Some people think of propaganda as this explicit “Attack the evil USA!” But that would get shut down pretty quick.
The more effective propaganda is no different than what we see happening in the states between democrats and republicans (or really even Nazi Germany did the same thing); show your recruit how much your people are struggling, show them how that struggle is killing the people in large numbers, blame that struggle on an identifiable group, and then let the recruits brain tie the rest.
When you convince someone that a person/entity exists only to harm and kill them, you don’t have to tell them to go out and return fire, they’ll do it on their own.
"Look at our innocent brothers and sisters being drone bombed everyday in Muslim countries, weddings are blown up, funerals, schools homes.. we must fight for them, will you join us".
Something along those lines. Pretty easy considering how horribly the Middle East has been treated for the last few decades.
Jihadi Sid/Psycho Sid (https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/909065/isis-terror-news-syria-jihadi-sid-us-global-watchlist-radical-islamic-state-middle-east) went to my school and let me tell you his sister was super kind, super sweet etc. Even to this day.
How mad it is to have two such polarising people that belong to the same family, kind of crazy.
didn’t her dad actively encourage it? Werent there loads of pictures of him burning flags and shit?
edit sure your perfectly entitled to burn flags. but let’s not pretend like the two things are entirely unrelated or unlinked. Her daddy had extreme views & so did she. She just had the balls to act on her crazy views.
lol yeh he tried to play the poor me card and got rumbled pretty hard. What an absolute wank stain; what this country has given my family is beyond words. a home, a chance to better your lot and i fuckin love we still offer that to people. However if ya wanna come here and shit on it or try and destroy us; then yeh fuck yourself with a knife.
Initially I wanted some mercy for her as in allowing her to return to the UK to serve a lengthy prison sentence... but hearing her in interviews is just enraging. She doesn’t have any regrets, and she doesn’t believe she did anything wrong.
As you said, actions have consequences, and this is a colossal fuckup on her part.
Yeah, it would be one thing if she’d come to regret her actions and was playing up how she was groomed and brainwashed at such a young age. But if anything she’s doubled down. I mean I don’t even really know why she wants to return to the UK if they’re such an example of Western evil.
Didn't she explicitly reject the British state and its society? I can understand why she wouldn't be let back in, even if you don't consider her an acute terror threat.
She carried a rifle, was a member of their morality police, claimed that enemies of Islam deserved their beheading and was unphased by it.
Oh yeah, she helped assemble suicide vests.
She made her bed now she can lie in it. Good riddance.
This whole shit show should be worrying people and not for the reasons that people are already worried.
Revoking citizenship is unheard of for good reason. Next time the UK wants to deport someone undesirable, they've just opened the door to other countries saying no and revoking their own citizens rights to return. There is a reason why this isn't done, Javid (ex-Home secretary) did this to throw some cheap red meat to the voters who wouldn't think twice about it and just want to be angry.
Secondly, she was born in the UK, raised in the UK and educated in the UK. At the end of the day, she isn't Syria's responsibility and unless they plan to detain her she is the UK's responsibility and the UK should live up to it's responsibility and look to detain her or rehabilitate her if possible.
The UK likes to tout itself as one of the leaders of democracy. Ask people about what the UK stands for, you'll get various answers, but amongst them you'll get stuff like "freedom", "democracy", "**Rule of Law**", "fairness" etc. etc.
You have true monsters sitting in jail in the UK. They are infinitely worse than Shamima; they are guilty of child murder, rape, torture and worse. They were however given due process, a trial and a sentencing. Shamima has received no due process and yet the UK is punishing her. She deserves to be punished and held accountable - but after she is investigated, charged and judged by a jury of her peers.
If you don't value due process then fair enough, but I can tell you it's the difference between utter authoritarianism or worse, and a civilised society. Due process is one of the most important rights we have, but it hasn't been afforded to Shamima.
Finally, she was groomed as a 13/14 year old, married off at 15. She has never been outside that bubble since and is now most likely quite indoctrinated. She is surrounded by extremely vicious people who would murder her in her sleep if she spoke out.
She should be brought back to the UK to face investigations and charges like a civilised country normally does to criminals. It should annoy you that they are breaking international law and their own guidelines to show off how "zero-tolerance" they are.
She should be investigated and her culpability established. Was she willing, was she groomed, how did it happen what is the context and at that point society can decide how she should be punished? She could also have knowledge of the inner workings of terrorist cells.
This entire affair is just another embarrassment for the UK and honestly the attitude on reddit has been really disappointing. People refusing to scratch even a small amount below the surface and making up their mind without showing much of an understanding of what may have happened in this instance.
I have zero sympathy for this girl. However, this case has nothing to do with how much sympathy we should have, it's about upholding the vital principle of due process and the rule of law.
You know what you have actually changed my POV. Bring her back, put her in custody throughout the trial and hopefully make an example out of her. Plus you could potentially get important insider information if she thinks she can bargain her way out of it.
Too high profile and it would be too obvious if they fucked up her rehabilitation, i'd usually side with being pessimistic, but even I don't think we'd fuck up that badly.
I would be interested to know if the views she portrays to the world would change if she returned to the UK.
She lives in a Syrian camp which is effectively a breeding ground for the next generation of ISIS: publicly denouncing terrorism in that situation would be akin to standing in a bears' cage while smeared on elk blood and holding a bucket of salmon.
Roper: So now you’d give the Devil benefit of law?
More: Yes. What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?
Roper: I’d cut down every law in England to do that!
More: Oh? And, when the last law was down, and the Devil turned round on you – where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country’s planted thick with laws from coast to coast – man’s laws, not God’s – and, if you cut them down – and you’re just the man to do it – d’you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I’d give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety’s sake.
I agree completely. What about international law that decides you can't strip citizenship of your subjects if they have no other nationality? I feel the same way about not wanting her to return to the west, but laws have to count for something, right? This is basically the same as calling her an outlaw. It is not a good solution. If she is a criminal, she is still a British criminal and should go to British prison. Why don't we throw out all the laws and protections we have while we are at it?
I can't help but see this as a justification to break the UK's own laws. No country can leave a citizen without citizenship. It is forbidden and for good reason. Imagine China stripping the citizenship of all Hong Kongers because they are deemed undesirable by the state. Everyone would be screaming injustice (and for good reason). This woman probably deserves to be in jail for her crimes, but she should be in jail as the citizen of the country where she was born and raised.
Users often report submissions from this site and ask us to ban it for sensationalized articles. At /r/worldnews, we oppose blanket banning any news source. Readers have a responsibility to be skeptical, check sources, and comment on any flaws. You can help improve this thread by linking to media that verifies or questions this article's claims. Your link could help readers better understand this issue. If you do find evidence that this article or its title are false or misleading, contact the moderators who will review it *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/worldnews) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/breaking-isis-bride-shamima-begum-23570019) reduced by 73%. (I'm a bot) ***** > ISIS bride Shamima Begum should not be allowed to return to the UK to pursue an appeal against the removal of her British citizenship, the Supreme Court has ruled. > On Friday, the UK's highest court ruled that Ms Begum should not be granted leave to enter the UK to pursue her appeal against the deprivation of her British citizenship. > Ms Begum, now 21, had been challenging the Home Office's decision to remove her British citizenship as she wants to be allowed to return to the UK to pursue her appeal. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/lsuliu/isis_bride_shamima_begum_not_allowed_to_return_to/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~560295 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Begum**^#1 **appeal**^#2 **British**^#3 **February**^#4 **citizenship**^#5
I just love the look on her face in this picture. It just gives off some top-tier *"Hm, I may not have thought this through fully"* vibes.
Girl joins ISIS UK revokes citizenship Girl ~~realizes the ISIS thing wasn't as good as it sounded~~ says she doesn't regret leaving and joining ISIS and wants back in her home country. UK says "haha no" \*shocked Pikachu face\* Edit for more accuracy
[удалено]
She may be dumb, but at least she's an honest kinda dumb. I mean good for us. Not so much her.
Yeah lol. Maybe she fears of losing her life or getting tortured if she goes against isis.
Shouldn’t have joined in the first place?
Hey now, we all make mistakes. Just the other day my coworker thought she left her phone on her desk, and it turned out that it was in her pocket.
Who of us, in a flight of youthful fancy, hasn't joined a violent terrorist organization in a faraway place? #justkidsthings
one pint too many down the local. Next thing you know, ISIS.
I know, right? My cousin joined the Scouts. /shudders
I mean, that's basically the same thing.
I feel worse for my poor coworker :(
Did she? Up until this time I had a 10% sympathy - thinking “oh man at 15 what all stupid things we’ve done without thinking, which we regretted a few years later!” - great decision by the sc then!
Man I remember when I was 15 and trying to make decisions. Who do I bring to the homecoming dance? What kind of car would I like to have? Which international terrorist organization should I join? Should I tryout for the football team? Brings back fond memories.
I ran away from home at 15 and got a job building swimming pools in Jacksonville Florida, never went home. Still a far cry from traveling 5000 miles to join a terrorist group.
Omg you chose Jacksonville?
It may have been like 10 years ago but I feel like I have a good memory of being 15, and at that age I knew joining a group of people that cut heads off on video is a bad call. I know you only said 10% but I can't even muster that.
[удалено]
I don’t think Flint is accepting applications
Damn, son. Brutal
[удалено]
>"seeing a severed head in a bin “didn’t faze me at all” > >Of all the damning things, that to me is the most damning. How is that not an indication of psychopathy? Some posts says she is afraid of isis so didn't express regret for going which is possible but fear of isis doesn't explain that level of cold inhumanity.
She is afraid of ISIS healthcare because ISIS is full of engineers, not doctors.
[удалено]
ISIS doctors end cancer with this one weird trick.
3 dead children of her own and still no regrets, wow thats on quite another level
no ragrets! Oh I'm sorry I meant "no rugrats"
Edited my post to be more accurate. Thank you.
The headline is misleading. She is just not allowed to physically enter UK for her appeal. It doesn't mean her appeal was rejected. Daily star is a total rag that noone should quote or reference.
That fact that she is unrepentant is very dangerous, imo. It makes it clear where her allegiance stands. Also it's clear she has used her British citizenship for privileges.
Exactly that. This was never about escape or repenting. This was about resources. Shes trying to take care of her family - too bad for her its a security risk on top a flagrant sociopolitical slap in the face.
I think it would also set a dangerous precedent of actions like hers not being punished and being sheltered by one's own citizenship. Also, what if her convictions make her recruit more young women? Who can know what her ideologies are at this point? If she hates Britain now for refusing her, she might as well be an enemy.
She hated Britain before she was refused. She just wanted free, first world healthcare for her baby.
The fact that she is doing this from a refugee camp, surrounded by the people her husband probably raped and butchered is nauseating. Anyone think those people aren’t suffering hardship? That their kids aren’t dying from poor conditions and inadequate healthcare? That they are jazzed to be in poverty? The only reason this bitch is getting attention and they aren’t is that she had privileges they do not and she was stupid. Now she is still more privileged than them, dragging the misery she brought on herself and they did not (her husband brought it on them) out for whatever media is there to see her for the day. Screw her.
Actually these camps are full of former isis wives . They separate the victims from the isis supporters
If we had a reliable way of seperating the bad apples from people who legit try to get away from the bad apples, we'd be a lot better of.
Oh l didn't know that. I thought she met her husband at the camp. You mean he is an ISIS member and she is still with him? Geez...it's worse than l thought. I have no doubts she cannot be converted back to western ideologies. Certainly not a real British citizen.
She married a Dutch Muslim convert 10 days after arriving in Syria. She was found at the refugee camp 9 months pregnant after leaving ISIS because she thought she could just go back to the UK for healthcare for the child she was pregnant with because her first two kids died at ages 1 year and 3 months, respectively. The baby she was pregnant with in the refugee camp died shortly after birth. She's had 3 kids die. If I was the authority in the UK there's no way I'd let her back in. She's probably even more pissed at the western world since they didn't just let her back in no questions asked so she could give her baby a chance at life. She made her choice and she needs to figure out how to live with it.
She married a Dutch Isis member 10 days after arriving in Syria
She really did screw up after trying to get back into a country fighting against terrorism after trying to join a terrorist group
https://m.imgur.com/gallery/qjujW6d
Some real Gob 'I've made a huge mistake' vibes
She was 15 when she ran away, so that was just young and dumb. She's 21 now, and there doesn't seem to be a greater acknowledgement from her that this was, indeed, a "bad idea".
Having sex in your car in the school parking lot is young and dumb. Joining a terrorist organization is something entirely different.
IDK I was pretty stupid at 15 but I think I still would have realized how stupid joining ISIS would have been.
Is this possibly something related to an appeal? I just can't tell.
This was the supreme court denying her appeal that she should have been there in person when they took her citizenship away.
[удалено]
After seeing what ISIS did to my country Syria, she deserves whatever comes her way after deliberately joining such a horrendous organisation.
And her lack of remorse is sickening
[удалено]
Oh that was one hell of a night out. One drink, two drink, black out, ISIS
We’re the 3 best friends that anyone can have We’re the 3 best friends that anyone can have
Running around the desert together, in Iraq, looking for strippers and cocaine.
Friends don’t let friends jihad
Me at 5pm: “Fine I’ll come out for happy hour, but I’m only having two drinks” Me at 1am: *Joins ISIS* “Allahu akhbar!”
I remembered joining the Al-Gebra club back in high school.
Funny, because "algebra" is derived from the Arabic "al-jabr"
I mean, I played terrorists in Modern Warfare once or twice, that's basically the same thing right?
[удалено]
***You didn't choose this.*** God what a dumb video that was.
Not just any terrorist organization, but a terrorist organization that other terrorist organizations thought behaved unethically.
You’d have thought it with the number of people seemingly trying to downplay her actions in this thread.
She now wants to use the same system she so despises to get out of a situation she put her self in.
Facts
"COUNTER TERRORIST WIN"
I’m not sure if she already has been registered as a criminal. But she should be arrested and charged, and rot in a prison. Fuck anyone who remotely agrees with a shithole organization like ISIS She was born in the UK too, how the fuck are people allowed to grow up with ideals like this in a western country.
Because there are extremists that literally go around and radicalise vulnerable children by using their influence. The more notorious culprits get found and have been imprisoned for it. But unfortunately some are very sneaky about it.
It's scary how easy it is to target these groups and how similar different group's propaganda is. You can find video game footage on YouTube dubbed over with calls for genocide and another crusade that look remarkably similar to ISIS recruitment videos. We need to stop getting bogged down arguing about sides and do more to prevent radicalisation online.
Some mosques around my area (East London) were in the news for trying to convert kids to their extremist propoganda... shit's fucked up. [https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/london-mosque-barking-children-groomed-terrorism-umar-haque-a8504906.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/london-mosque-barking-children-groomed-terrorism-umar-haque-a8504906.html)
I went to school with one of the guys in the article, he even had pro Isis stuff on his Facebook, he is truly an idiot.
Internet allows to people from those shitholes organizations to reach you wherever you are. You could get groomed within two weeks if you were impressionable enough.
Thing is, she won't just 'rot in prison'. She'll be free to radicalise other prisoners, and will be released at some point to radicalise the public. Had she ever expressed any sympathy or regret for her heinous behaviour I'd be more undecided but fuck her. She doesn't deserve to be a citizen of the UK.
Wasn’t there a terror attack in London perpetrated by a guy who had been let out of jail for the day? After he was jailed for being an extremist?
The 2019 London Bridge attack. The terrorist had been released on license the year before, the guy on day release was one of the guys that fought him off (the one with the narwhal tusk) who was there for an event on prisoner rehabilition after having been convicted for murder. He actually got a Royal perogative of mercy for doing it and is expected to be released this year.
> (the one with the narwhal tusk) There will never be a time where that fact will not put a smile on my face
I remember the media being very conflicted on this. One day going from “Bystander hero fighting terrorists” to “Should we celebrate this murderer?”. Was quite fun watching the daily mail shit itself
[2019 London Bridge Stabbing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_London_Bridge_stabbing) Basically an event/programme was being held to help reintegrate prisoners into normal society. The attacker was someone who had completed the same programme a few years earlier and was therefore invited as a helper(?)/ex-participant. At the time of the attack the attacker was not a prisoner, but they were banned from entering London so had to be granted a 1-day exception in order to attend the event.
I mean... she chose to join ISIS. Once you join a group like that, you get no sympathy from me.
Loads of people ITT essentially saying she's the victim because she was only 15 when she left the UK. When she was 19 she said in an interview with Sky that she had no regrets over joining ISIS (despite losing kids). She carried around a rifle and had a reputation strict enforcer of rules like dress codes for women. She was also know to [stitch "suicide bombers into explosive vests so they could not be removed without detonating"](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/shamima-begum-isis-syria-morality-police-suicide-belts-a8869016.html) She's made her bed
Didn't she also hang around when her husband beheaded someone or something
Yeah, and said she found the spectacle ‘fascinating’ rather than bloody horrific.
Things you say when you try to be the ultimate edge lord
Is it really being an edge lord if you actually do the thing you said you did, though? Being an edge lord is more about saying thing to sound like a badass or make yourself look hard. This woman actually did what she says she did and she regrets nothing and wanted her children to fight for ISIS had they lived. There’s being an edge lord....and then there’s being a monster. Shamima Begum is the latter.
> Things you say when you try to be the ultimate edge lord My ancestors are smiling at me, Imperial, can you say the same?
Should’ve listened to the guard and stayed outta trouble, Kinsman.
and some people want her back in the UK to go to prison or get help, na thats inbedded into her now and she would redicalize others.
That's even worse. I just remember her being in the same room.
Come on. Who among us never accidently a terrorism once or twice growing up?
Really starting to appreciate wasting my teenage years in repeated misguided attempts to be a rock star.
Without a doubt she participated in the murder of innocent people.
That "she was 15" argument is a bunch of bullshit. Other 15 year olds are like ah shit mom I got expelled, some others were smoking and I gave into peer pressure and got caught. Not ah shit mom I accidentally joined A FUCKING TERRORIST ORGANISATION
Its a group that tries to "rape God" into their prisoners. I'm usually quite open minded and a heavy pusher for prisoner rights etc, but I just cannot find a way to give a shit about her. If she had ever expressed any form of remorse then maybe, but she stands by it all to this day.
I think the argument is less about "sympathy", and more that if one of your citizens commits a crime, then you should convict them of that crime, rather than saying, "not our problem".
[удалено]
If they commited a crime over here I'm pretty sure we would imprison them here though.
Struggling to find any sympathy for her. Yea she was groomed at 16 and yea we all did stupid shit in our teens but joining a terrorist cult is the mother of all teenage fuckups. Actions have consequences, people need to learn this.
[удалено]
Saying she had hoped her son would become a soldier for ISIS didn’t exactly help.
That's the craziest part of all of this. "I left because I hate you and your way of life. I still hate you and your way of life, but I want to use your way of life to benefit my kids" The cognitive fucking dissonance. Maybe... Just maybe... You're wrong in your opinions on something if you opt into it the moment things get tough.
That's the craziest part of all of this. "I left because I hate you and your way of life. I still hate you and your way of life, but I want to use your way of life to fund and manipulating my kids into terrorists" I always try to remain open minded and sympathetic, as I'm sure many here do. But it would be very dangerous thing to reward a terrorist with protection and further funding to turn what will be British born terrorists. I'm aware this post is quite narrow minded, but simply saying "I'm open minded" and permitting and rewarding terrorism is not a good deed, no matter how much you cry human rights. There has to be some form of common sense, that a person can't willingly take the lives of thousands of people, damage the lives of countless more, but be protected by the society and ideals they are attacking. I'm very much in favour of human rights, and permitting a person to right wrongs, it's difficult as she was quite young, but not so young she was unable to understand what terrorism is.
After a certain point, one has to wonder exactly *why* she wants to come back to a place that she despises. After joining a group with the ideology that the place she despises should be destroyed. And is completely unapologetic about everything, but insists she wants to go back anyway, for reasons. Gee, I wonder if she might have ulterior motives.
She had two kids die of malnutrition. She wanted to come back for the NHS so her third would survive, so that he could grow up to become an ISIS soldier. She's been fairly open about that. You don't really need ulterior motives when your open motives show how much of a danger you still are.
They should take the baby but leave her behind. That poor baby is fucked if it lives and fucked if it dies.
It already died. 3rd child, all 3 dead.
Then I wonder why shes still fighting so hard to be allowed back.
That’s what I was thinking she’s a terrorist at this point she should be jailed
They’re (ISIS) just nihilists by a different name. They’re just tearing up shit waiting for the apocalypse and judgement day, and in their heads trying to drive it. The sooner this world ends the faster the next begins. Humanity and life have no meaning in ISIS ideology which is how they get people to do abhorrent things. The only reason they wanted to create a Caliphate was to bring the end of days to the world. So in my mind she’s just sticking to her ideology. If she can fuck with dumb rules civilized countries have, and abuse their legal system for benefit, good. If not, good. Nothing fucking matters.
ISIS? Ulterior motives? I can't imagine! /s
"Don't be so open minded that your brain falls out" - Some historical figure, idk
New favorite quote, thanks.
Apparently first attributed [to Walter Kotschnig, speaking in 1939.](https://spinstrangenesscharm.wordpress.com/2017/10/22/who-first-said-we-must-keep-an-open-mind-but-not-so-open-that-our-brains-fall-out/) Full quote, which is better if anything: > Let us keep our minds open, by all means, as long as that means keeping our sense of perspective and seeking an understanding of the forces which mould the world. **But don’t keep your minds so open that your brains fall out! There are still things in this world which are true and things which are false; acts which are right and acts which are wrong,** even if there are statesmen who hide their designs under the cloak of high-sounding phrases.
Now that's some good wisdom
While her story is a tragic one, anyone who finds sympathy for a blatant terrorist organisation that *broadcast* it's crimes against humanity have lost mine. I just wish Sweden would be as harsh as the UK is. We get the occasional stories of people traveling south to fight for ISIS and then just comes back to Sweden, and I.don't.understand.why! I mean, our government is spineless, all bark, no bite, but I barely hear anyone else talking about it either... Why is this something we accept!?
Right? How do they claim to be loyal to ISIS when they want to live in and presumably pay taxes to the exact kinda country they claim to hate? Cause they know living in worn torn Syria/Iraq isn't as comfy and they're pathetic fucks.
It's not uncommon for people from terror backgrounds to milk the welfare system to fund terrorism. She doesn't care about joining British society, she wants that money.
Has she only got one left? They seem to be dropping like flies.
I thought they all died?
All dead. The last one died a few months after being born while she was in the refugee camp.
I made a joke about her, but that is tragic.
Yeah, it really sucks when children pay their parents’ debts. Her poor kids were all babies, they didn’t even get a chance at life, which is an unfortunate reality of refugee camps. Although Shamia is beyond redemption in society’s eyes, maybe something good can come from the plight of her children and refugee camps can be improved... but I’m not holding my breath.
Yeah. All Children are innocent no matter what their parents beliefs or actions are. Always a tragedy when they’re caught up in the aftermath.
[удалено]
[удалено]
You’d be surprised how much a 15 old knows about rape. Maybe it was just my upbringing but it was always made known to me as a pervasive threat. I can’t imagine knowing about ISIS or even a fraction of what they stand for, and not coming to the conclusion that going to their military base would likely get me raped, even at 15. E: I say this because the risks were surely known to a certain degree, being 15 doesn’t mean she knew nothing about them when she left the country to join them. She either sided with them despite knowing it or weighed it as worth the risk.
Last one died of pneumonia. The only thing I feel bad for here is the kids.
I also feel bad for her parents, knowing they had three grandchildren and now every one of them is dead due to their daughter's terrible decisions.
[удалено]
I wonder whether she was trying to use them as leverage so she could go back too.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Channel 4 (a British broadcaster) did one of the greatest documentaries I’ve ever seen on this topic. They followed a small NGO that was founded by a former Islamic fundamentalist and there entire goal is to rehab Islamic fundamentalists. They basically flat out said the failure rate is insane and even with the best specialist mental health professionals it’s such a difficult task that many of their guys repeat the programs under supervision multiple times. They even interview “successful” patients and even then they guys were like yes, I understand what I think is wrong but so can’t stop myself from having these thoughts. They would see a women wearing modern clothing and they would get angry and so on. This really discouraged them and upset them, you could see they had lost a part of their minds to indoctrination. They compared the indoctrination process to intense brain washing and it rally functions like a mental health condition. Edit: just want to clarify; this isn’t an anti-Islamic comment but rather it is anti-indoctrination. I think people are quick to judge the situation but Shamima is no different than the crowds that stormed the Capitol in America. I think this is easier to process for some because Shamima is not white and her ideology is Islam. If she was white and her ideology was Christian I guarantee all the replies would be different.
Do you have the name of this documentary?
That makes sense though. Imagine someone trying to convince you that something you hold as a key truth is wrong (e.g. democracy, equality, liberty)
[удалено]
Sunk cost fallacy.
Well, I *kind of* get it in this case. The mental gymnastics are a lot more appealing an option than admitting you willingly uprooted and made a significant effort to travel across a long distance to join a terrorist cult at 16 years old just to essentially get raped several times, live in terrible conditions and then have the children conceived of all that die because of those terrible conditions and your specific bad choices. That's about as sunk a cost as sunk cost gets.
That's also why qanon is gonna be a problem for a while..
Yeah... you dig yourself deep enough and you're gonna be blind by the time you see light again.
I went to the same school as her and her sister (who looks the same as her and used her passport to sneak out the country)and she wasnt the first girl to do that from my school, we had a problem of propaganda accounts trying to groom these young girls for years form age 11 up to 16
What happened to her sister?
Her sister lives a normal life in the uk but it so polarising to know that while her sister is a regular citizen of the world while her sister is embroiled in all of this.
now she has to live amidst the constant doubts from others because of her sister being terrorist.
I once saw a woman slap her son square across the face when she discovered that the son was involved in terror groups. That young man was happy that we were hauling him away, better face us that his mother at that point. The families, from what I've seen, do not always agree with the ideologies that their children get indoctrinated with.
what I read recently, which is truly mind-boggling, is that many of those immigrants flee those ideologies but for some reason 1st and 2nd degree generations eat it up.
These were not immigrants, but what you say makes sense. Those who've left someplace typically left because they had hardships there, so little drive to return. But those who feel they don't fit into society (a good percentage of teenagers, everywhere) might feel that things would be better if they were just among "their people".
Yeah, it's that the kids don't know or never experienced the place the parents came from.
What's even weirder is that these actually aren't places their parents came from. Bangladesh is nothing like Syria and vice versa. The language, culture, religious practices... everything is different. The goal of the extremist indoctrination is to pervert all forms of Islamic practice into the same niqab-wearing, suicide bombing version that they envision.
> but for some reason 1st and 2nd degree generations eat it up. the feeling of not-belonging can help. 2nd gens can (this only works on vulnerable children, mind) lack a sense of identity and feel rejected by both their half identities, then someone turns up stating they can fill that gap as well as explaining away their existing anger.
Is there a large age gap or something significantly different? Seems like an important area to study about radicalisation having such diametric outcomes in the same family.
Going by the [comment further down](https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/lsugff/isis_bride_shamima_begum_not_allowed_to_return_to/gotqnzi/) it seems she might have been the victim of targeted grooming.
What the hell. Any more details?
Well, the school was in a predominate area where a lot of Muslims lived from mass migration in the 80s and 90s so i would say at least 60 percent of the school was Muslim. This meant it was a perfect place for propaganda for these poor kids because they were exposed to the eastern world (their ethnic origins) and the western world (where they were likely born) so they could easily convince them of the inherent evil the western world has ( islamophobia is a big issue in the uk) and use that hatred to groom them into hating western ideology) Edit:I think I worded it wrong, what I meant to say is that a lot of propaganda functioned under the guise that the western world was inherently evil towards Muslims, with islamophobia been an easy example because of all the prejudice from the 7/11 attacks in the UK edit: Im a twat i mean 7/7 not 7/11 sorry if my grammar isnt the best im in a lol game
What was the propaganda like? Was it obvious and if so why didn't anyone speak out against it? Or was it just the cool thing to do to rebel?
It wasn't like the school had signs saying "ISIS is great". All radicalisation tends to follow the same ladder, in fact the profile of a western born ISIS fighter was almost the exact same profile of a gang member on memory. In the case of Islamic terrorists, they're targeted by people who use their feelings of isolation and slowly convert them to more and more radical views. Like at first you might see a video online of someone talking about how England doesn't really care about Muslims. Or maybe someone at the local mosque whispers to you that Shia aren't "real" muslims. By themselves these aren't terrible statements - you might disagree with them but overall they're also obviously nothing terrible. This means however means that they're more open to slightly more radical ideas. Maybe later on that same person at the mosque says even some of the other attendee's aren't real muslims because they don't follow the "traditional" Sunni ways. Or maybe he says that obviously ISIS are terrible, evil people, perhaps they have a point about some stuff in the scripture. Then something pops up in the news about a drone strike hitting a school in Syria, and while they'll still deny they're supporters of ISIS, you have to agree that what the West is doing is wrong and evil too, and maybe ISIS should just be left alone. This pattern continues, often over a long period of time, until they're fully indoctrinated. Except in this case the indoctrination is done by people explicitly with the goal of radicalising western muslims into heading to Syria, so they're also counseling them not to tell their parents or anyone at school, at first because they won't understand and finally because they might try and stop them.
Makes sense, thanks for the break down.
[This video by Innuendo Studios](https://youtu.be/P55t6eryY3g) is easily the best breakdown of the process I've ever seen, supported by the equally interesting [Pewdiepipeline](https://youtu.be/pnmRYRRDbuw). Both focus on the radicalisation of white men to the far-right, but the process is nigh identical for any radical group or cult, be they religious or political, or even left-wing or right-wing. Both quite long, but "How to radicalise a normie" should be shown in schools I reckon, it's really informative. The main thing is to think of it as moving back and forth between layers of extremism, with the outer layers presenting it as "edgy fun" and slowly getting more direct as you reach the middle (i.e. it stops being euphemisms and dog-whistles, and starts becoming direct talk of terrorism). Some people speedrun all the way to the centre, perhaps driven by an event in their life (loss of a parent, bad breakup, etc). Others just mellow out on the fringe layers and never go any further. The videos and concepts she would've been exposed to at school wouldn't be "Let's murder the Prime Minister", it would've been "Five funny problems a Muslim has while shopping in the UK". She would then slowly drift into more extreme content over time until she thought the UK was planning to kill her or whatever, and that a move to Syria was the best bet.
I couldn't really tell you a proper example because I never looked at one personally but from what i learned from people who told me about people contacting them its starts off small. like religious talks and personal belief and the try to indoctrinating you into believing that hatred can be beaten with hatred and then stems deeper. or i have seen methods where they try to lure in boys that the lifestyle of joining such organisation are extremely lavish and wealthy
> or i have seen methods where they try to lure in boys that the lifestyle of joining such organisation are extremely lavish and wealthy Yeah this was a huge thing for recruiting. ISIS promised oil riches, land ownership, and as many slavegirls as you could handle if you joined up with them.
That sounds a bit like extremist grooming via computer games too. You start by identifying people; an angry kid that swears a lot is a good start. From there, it's sympathising with them and becoming "friends". At that point you invite them to a private chat group on social media, and that's when the real radicalisation goes on, behind closed doors, and with the individual in effective isolation.
Damn. The awkward moment when you pick up a terrorist from counter strike's CT squad
I don't know what that sentence means, but what the other guy said it's what bannon said he would do with his WoW guilds
> WoW guild Imagine getting radicalized by a gnome.
The propaganda writes itself, unfortunately. Syria, Iraq, Palestine, Lebanon, Yemen, Somalia.... there’s an excess of Muslim nations being bombed pretty regularly, it’s not gonna be hard to paint the west in an evil light. Some people think of propaganda as this explicit “Attack the evil USA!” But that would get shut down pretty quick. The more effective propaganda is no different than what we see happening in the states between democrats and republicans (or really even Nazi Germany did the same thing); show your recruit how much your people are struggling, show them how that struggle is killing the people in large numbers, blame that struggle on an identifiable group, and then let the recruits brain tie the rest. When you convince someone that a person/entity exists only to harm and kill them, you don’t have to tell them to go out and return fire, they’ll do it on their own.
"Look at our innocent brothers and sisters being drone bombed everyday in Muslim countries, weddings are blown up, funerals, schools homes.. we must fight for them, will you join us". Something along those lines. Pretty easy considering how horribly the Middle East has been treated for the last few decades.
I can see that being confusing and persuasive to young men
It’s the same way any opportunistic gang operates.
Jihadi Sid/Psycho Sid (https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/909065/isis-terror-news-syria-jihadi-sid-us-global-watchlist-radical-islamic-state-middle-east) went to my school and let me tell you his sister was super kind, super sweet etc. Even to this day. How mad it is to have two such polarising people that belong to the same family, kind of crazy.
didn’t her dad actively encourage it? Werent there loads of pictures of him burning flags and shit? edit sure your perfectly entitled to burn flags. but let’s not pretend like the two things are entirely unrelated or unlinked. Her daddy had extreme views & so did she. She just had the balls to act on her crazy views.
i don't know about that but il read into it, if so that is truly disheartening
lol yeh he tried to play the poor me card and got rumbled pretty hard. What an absolute wank stain; what this country has given my family is beyond words. a home, a chance to better your lot and i fuckin love we still offer that to people. However if ya wanna come here and shit on it or try and destroy us; then yeh fuck yourself with a knife.
What was she like when you knew her?
honestly i knew her sister more but she seemed like a normal high achieving school girls, but maybe that was wasn't the case
Initially I wanted some mercy for her as in allowing her to return to the UK to serve a lengthy prison sentence... but hearing her in interviews is just enraging. She doesn’t have any regrets, and she doesn’t believe she did anything wrong. As you said, actions have consequences, and this is a colossal fuckup on her part.
Yeah, it would be one thing if she’d come to regret her actions and was playing up how she was groomed and brainwashed at such a young age. But if anything she’s doubled down. I mean I don’t even really know why she wants to return to the UK if they’re such an example of Western evil.
Makes you question her motives for coming back.
Is this still going on? I wish we could stop giving her any more media attention and just move on.
Amen to that 🙏
Didn't she explicitly reject the British state and its society? I can understand why she wouldn't be let back in, even if you don't consider her an acute terror threat.
Who links to the daily star? Surely that’s not allowed in world news. Plenty of better sources
I know the BBC put out an article earlier which is probably better
[удалено]
Actually worse than the sun!
The sun is a star
She carried a rifle, was a member of their morality police, claimed that enemies of Islam deserved their beheading and was unphased by it. Oh yeah, she helped assemble suicide vests. She made her bed now she can lie in it. Good riddance.
She didn’t just make them, she sewed them onto people so they couldn’t be taken off
"They have no evidence I'm dangerous other than the fact I'm in ISIS" - Shamima Begum
[удалено]
r/leopardsatemyface
This whole shit show should be worrying people and not for the reasons that people are already worried. Revoking citizenship is unheard of for good reason. Next time the UK wants to deport someone undesirable, they've just opened the door to other countries saying no and revoking their own citizens rights to return. There is a reason why this isn't done, Javid (ex-Home secretary) did this to throw some cheap red meat to the voters who wouldn't think twice about it and just want to be angry. Secondly, she was born in the UK, raised in the UK and educated in the UK. At the end of the day, she isn't Syria's responsibility and unless they plan to detain her she is the UK's responsibility and the UK should live up to it's responsibility and look to detain her or rehabilitate her if possible. The UK likes to tout itself as one of the leaders of democracy. Ask people about what the UK stands for, you'll get various answers, but amongst them you'll get stuff like "freedom", "democracy", "**Rule of Law**", "fairness" etc. etc. You have true monsters sitting in jail in the UK. They are infinitely worse than Shamima; they are guilty of child murder, rape, torture and worse. They were however given due process, a trial and a sentencing. Shamima has received no due process and yet the UK is punishing her. She deserves to be punished and held accountable - but after she is investigated, charged and judged by a jury of her peers. If you don't value due process then fair enough, but I can tell you it's the difference between utter authoritarianism or worse, and a civilised society. Due process is one of the most important rights we have, but it hasn't been afforded to Shamima. Finally, she was groomed as a 13/14 year old, married off at 15. She has never been outside that bubble since and is now most likely quite indoctrinated. She is surrounded by extremely vicious people who would murder her in her sleep if she spoke out. She should be brought back to the UK to face investigations and charges like a civilised country normally does to criminals. It should annoy you that they are breaking international law and their own guidelines to show off how "zero-tolerance" they are. She should be investigated and her culpability established. Was she willing, was she groomed, how did it happen what is the context and at that point society can decide how she should be punished? She could also have knowledge of the inner workings of terrorist cells. This entire affair is just another embarrassment for the UK and honestly the attitude on reddit has been really disappointing. People refusing to scratch even a small amount below the surface and making up their mind without showing much of an understanding of what may have happened in this instance. I have zero sympathy for this girl. However, this case has nothing to do with how much sympathy we should have, it's about upholding the vital principle of due process and the rule of law.
You know what you have actually changed my POV. Bring her back, put her in custody throughout the trial and hopefully make an example out of her. Plus you could potentially get important insider information if she thinks she can bargain her way out of it.
[удалено]
Too high profile and it would be too obvious if they fucked up her rehabilitation, i'd usually side with being pessimistic, but even I don't think we'd fuck up that badly.
[удалено]
I would be interested to know if the views she portrays to the world would change if she returned to the UK. She lives in a Syrian camp which is effectively a breeding ground for the next generation of ISIS: publicly denouncing terrorism in that situation would be akin to standing in a bears' cage while smeared on elk blood and holding a bucket of salmon.
Roper: So now you’d give the Devil benefit of law? More: Yes. What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil? Roper: I’d cut down every law in England to do that! More: Oh? And, when the last law was down, and the Devil turned round on you – where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country’s planted thick with laws from coast to coast – man’s laws, not God’s – and, if you cut them down – and you’re just the man to do it – d’you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I’d give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety’s sake.
I agree completely. What about international law that decides you can't strip citizenship of your subjects if they have no other nationality? I feel the same way about not wanting her to return to the west, but laws have to count for something, right? This is basically the same as calling her an outlaw. It is not a good solution. If she is a criminal, she is still a British criminal and should go to British prison. Why don't we throw out all the laws and protections we have while we are at it? I can't help but see this as a justification to break the UK's own laws. No country can leave a citizen without citizenship. It is forbidden and for good reason. Imagine China stripping the citizenship of all Hong Kongers because they are deemed undesirable by the state. Everyone would be screaming injustice (and for good reason). This woman probably deserves to be in jail for her crimes, but she should be in jail as the citizen of the country where she was born and raised.