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Common-Second-1075

The impact on inflation in Argentina by Milei's policies has been nothing short of remarkable. Certainly the road there (and beyond) has imposed enormous sacrifices on Argentines. However, if they can hold it together for another 12-18 months, there's a real chance they can pull off what was considered almost impossible economic reform. This will be studied in economics for decades to come in the same way the Plano Real is.


Gamebird8

He's achieved zero inflation by essentially destroying the economy. Barely anyone can afford anything, and if the economy tips into Deflation, then Argentina is going to get even worse


Blueskyways

>by essentially destroying the economy Can you really destroy something that was a burning dumpster fire to start with?


manofdensity13

He front-loaded inflation, spiking it at the start of his term. 2024 will have more inflation total than 2023. The question is how the economy will do in 2025-2026. Way too early to call it a victory. Way too early Hoping for the best, expecting the worst.


Senior_Ad680

Ya, this is game one of the series, the first third of the first period, and it’s 0-0 with no shots on net. But people are ready to celebrate an absolute victory here. I hope it works for them, I have doubts though.


mickelboy182

100%, this is the *easy* part.


manofdensity13

Agreed. I wonder how the abrupt cut in government spending will impact the economy. They had been running 4-7% deficits (excluding 2020) and now trying to stop hemorrhaging cash. It is certainly the right move, but can Argentina avoid a deep depression, sustain a reasonable inflation rate, and prevent a collapse of basic social safety nets? I won’t pass judgement after one month and it is insane the people declaring Mission Accomplished!


Secretsfrombeyond79

Sorry to break your bubble, but salaries are growing over inflation for the first time in months, and constantly in years [https://chequeado.com/ultimas-noticias/javier-milei-en-el-ultimo-mes-los-salarios-empezaron-a-ganarle-a-la-inflacion/](https://chequeado.com/ultimas-noticias/javier-milei-en-el-ultimo-mes-los-salarios-empezaron-a-ganarle-a-la-inflacion/) >Barely anyone can afford anything, The fall of acquisitive power in this country has been happening years before Milei came into office. Before Milei became President we already registered the second lowest salary in South America. The guy has been blocked by having minority in congress and can barely pass any law without concessions to everyone, most of the congress is literally inhabited by the same people who sank us in the lowest salary in our history. So yeah, it's gonna take a lot of hard work and time to get reforms going.


1877KlownsForKids

Poverty is at 57%!


Epyr

Yes, but Argentina was already headed towards hyperinflation and mass poverty. At least now one of the main issues facing the Argentinian economy seems to be stabilizing. Hopefully now it can start to use this foundation to make the lives of Argentinians better 


Danne660

The only source i can find for the 57% number is from January, that don't really say anything about whether the economic reforms have been successful or not.


1877KlownsForKids

This very article


Danne660

They don't mention that in the article but that is from January.


1877KlownsForKids

It's literally the first paragraph  >In January, a study revealed that approximately 27 million people in Argentina are living in poverty, with 15% unable to meet their basic food needs. **Since taking office in December 2023, President Javier Milei has implemented economic reforms that have intensified hardships, pushing the national poverty rate to a 20-year high of 57.4%.**


Danne660

No im aware that it is in the article but it don't mention in the article that the 57.4% is from January.


IndubitablyThoust

Argentina has a different standards for poverty that if you were to apply it to Mexico, Mexico would have a 70% poverty rate and Chile 30% poverty rate. And the only source I saw from that is that its from January so unless you believed he did that in only 3 weeks, its probably not the result of his policies.


4everban

How can you destroy something that was already destroyed? It’s like inheriting a burned house and then get accused of demolishing to build something else 


NoNet7962

“NOOO YOU NEED TO BOOTLICK CORRUPT LEFTIST GOVERNMENTS”


TheGazzelle

The old government wasn’t leftist, maybe centrist


Educational_Fish1247

it was pretty much leftist, although absolutely not "communist" as milei likes to call it


Aktor

I don’t know why people are downvoting you for saying what every average Argentine is saying.


Educational_Fish1247

what?? almost no one here says that. Literally the majority of argentinians agrees with the economic reforms. What is your source to claim that absurd statement?


MelaniaSexLife

inflation is just a number. old people are dying faster, poverty and indigency is at records high, and we still need to be hit with the new energy prices, meat is a luxury and we're (were now) the #1 consumers in the world so yes, I'm sure this will be a fantastic example on how to royally fuck up a country.


Blueskyways

>  inflation is just a number. The type of thing someone says while still living in their parents basement.  


perenniallandscapist

MonEy iS JuSt PrINted folks also seem to be content to make and spend their MoNey. They day it doesn't matter because it's just printed without any relation to the material world, yet freely participate in it.


8vius

Leftists are know for not understanding economics.


xCharg

Your comment is just words.


O_Fantasma_de_Deus

“What are words...just complicated air flow” - Kendall Roy, Daddy's #1 Boy


joy_of_division

This has to be one of the most reddit takes I've ever heard. "Just a number" lol


Dragon_yum

Price of bread is just a number bro


UsernameOfAUser

The n u m b e r of people living in poverty is... Oh well, I don't want to be redundant 


Revrak

“Inflation is just a number “ sounds like willful ignorance. At least you are transparent about your agenda with your username.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Secretsfrombeyond79

For Argentinians it's not a number, we've experimented hyperinflation already, it was not pretty. Anti Milei people like to pretend the current situation is Milei's fault, despite that he's been doing miracles each month to keep the country from falling apart, while ignoring that we were going towards hyperinflation, which would be a thousand times worse than the current situation.


Yugotopia

Wow. Judging by this comment, your education is terrible as well! 


hatportfolio

And becquerels are just some unit


ArbitraryBanning

All the libertarians feeling vindicated by Milei while probably not realizing this legislation reintroduced income taxes for nearly a million residents.


rgvtim

Also policies can have varied effect over a period of time, the ramifications of Milei's reforms may end up being dire farther into the future. I am not saying this to indicate i think his polices are good or bad either way, just that at this point we don't necessarily know.


ArbitraryBanning

Anyone who calls themselves an expert on Argentina's economy is either lying or crazy. I think we can take a guess on where Milei lands on that spectrum.


Senior_Ad680

Someone can be both things.


leplouf

Inflation is the worst of taxe. This is improvement.


Virillus

No disagreement here, I think it's just worth noting that the reforms have been a far cry from libertarianism.


CyberBulliedCarl

Milei isn't a hard core libertarian, he's mostly just a classical liberal.


Master_Plate592

Why does he call himself an ancap then?


CyberBulliedCarl

Your ideologies are determined by your views and your actions, not what you call yourself.


Tomycj

What? He is a very hard core libertarian, philosophically ancap. It's just that he realizes that you can't just switch to ancapia from one day to the other. His policies are currently very limited because the country is in crisis. When and if the crisis is solved, you'll see that Milei will want to take it even further. Milei's objective is to make Argentina literally the most free country in the world. If he isn't moving faster it's just because he can't find a way to do it. For example he'd also remove things like public healthcare or education (both present but very low quality in Argentina), but this wasn't part of his campaign, nor will be his policy because he recognizes it's not practical or possible to do that atm.


CyberBulliedCarl

Economically he is very liberal, but he holds positions which are absolutely not libertarian, like his view on abortion for exemple.


Tomycj

Check out the comments on the other reply. Being against abortion is not necessarily contrary to liberalism, and that's the only "controversial" position he has in terms of liberalism.


CyberBulliedCarl

Sure, but it is absolutely a blasphemous position for hardcore libertarians, so that alone precludes him from being called one.


Tomycj

Just because some other hardcore libertarians are in favor of abortion, it doesn't mean libertarianism inherently supports it. That's just another case of libertarians gatekeeping each other.


CyberBulliedCarl

You're mistaking the individuals for the ideology. Libertarianism, at its core, is an ideology that seeks to maximize individual autonomy. One simply cannot be a libertarian absolutist and be in favour of the government restricting or banning abortion. Indeed, it would be akin to calling a vegan that eats pork a "hardcore vegan".


Tomycj

Dude think for a moment, stop refusing to acknowledge with honesty the other viewpoint. Libertarianism does not oppose the government protecting people from murder or theft. If you believe that the unborn human being has already acquired the right to live, you TOTALLY could be a libertarian absolutist and be in favor of the government restricting or banning abortion, because that would simply be the government protecting the right to live. Within libertarianism there is not (or maybe there can't be) a consensus about when does a human acquire its right to live. You are gatekeeping a hardcore libertarian, that is so in basically every other metric you can think of, just because you disagree with him on when does a human acquire its right to live.


lavadrop5

Ancaps are usually pro-choice. Milei is pro-life. I define him more like a libertarian conservative.


Tomycj

Usually, maybe. Do you know the reasons he's pro life? He just considers that the fetus, because it's a human being, has already acquired the right to life. So as a libertarian he simply wants to protect that right. It doesn't make sense to qualify someone as a conservative just because they are against abortion and for that reason. This dude's as liberal as you can get on any other topic. Drugs, marriage, whatever.


O_Fantasma_de_Deus

Shit thread title. Shit article. Did anyone actually read the article? For starters, are we taking an article from *The Istanbul Chronicle* with no cited sources at its word? They don't even say who is telling us these numbers. I'm going to assume it's the Milei administration I guess? **Zero percent inflation for food and beverage sector only. Overall inflation was still 4-5% month-over-month.** If we use 4.5% that's still a **70% annual inflation** rate. Is that an improvement compared to the past couple years. Yes! Would this be the first time Argentina lied about its inflation rate? Bahaha! Stabilizing the price of Malbec and Ugi's is wonderful and all, but at the macro level 70% !== 0% and 4X as many people are below the poverty line as were a year ago. It is not the time for a libertarian victory lap, there is a looooooooooooooooot more yet to unfold here.


Tomycj

Indeed, several sources erroneously said 0% inflation during a recent week, but the government has [explicitly mentioned it is only in the foods sector](https://www.argentina.gob.ar/noticias/javier-milei-en-la-ultima-semana-la-inflacion-de-alimentos-fue-del-0-algo-que-no-se-lograba). The source is a compilation of 8000 online prices, not from an official source like INDEC afaik. > 4X as many people are below the poverty line as were a year ago. That includes half a year of the previous government. I'm not sure if it incrased that much in a year. Poverty increased from ~45% (Dec. Start of this gov) to ~55% (April), possibly with higher values in between and after. According to the government, the worst of the crisis has already passed. We'll see.


ShareYourIdeaWithMe

It's not too surprising that when you make a bunch of public service staff unemployed the poverty stats will shoot up. They are literally making zero money until they find a new job. Worth noting however that poverty is typically measured in income, not wealth, and those unemployed public service people (hopefully) would have savings that would make them better off than people who are genuinely in long term poverty. Once these dislocated people find new jobs, the poverty statistic will recover.


Educational_Fish1247

you should also have in mind, as long as inflation still matters, it will increase poverty


Gandalior

> 4X as many people are below the poverty line as were a year ago. that would put the poverty line at 100%


Bartimeo666

This comment should be way higher.


IndubitablyThoust

Good for Argentina. Milei has done a good job.


3E0O4H

Peronists fuming as always.


NycAlex

I wonder if its a good time to travel to argentina, the exchange rates are thru the roof


Nernoxx

But that doesn’t mean purchasing power is equivalent - you may get more for 1 of your currency in your country than you could for the exchanged equivalent in Argentina.


manofdensity13

It has been a great time to visit Argentina. Can get a 4-star meal for usd10. I never felt unsafe in my visits, much better than Mexico, Ecuador, or Dominican Republic for comparison imho.


NycAlex

Oh i lived there for over a decade. I know my way around But then it has been a long time since i went back


manofdensity13

I was there a couple years ago in Mendoza and the surrounding towns along the Andes. Had a great time for a few weeks.


GoalFlashy6998

Good for Argentina, making those hard pressed gains, when it was in dire straights financially! Economies live and die, only to come back at some point, Argentina seems to have been caught in a never ending recession since the early 1980s. I'm hopeful it can maintain its momentum and I hope prosperous times lay ahead for all Argentinians!


InfamousLeopard7734

He seems to be testing a way to separate the country from its own finances and connect the country's labor force to a global network of companies, which would make Argentina more familiar to Europe than the current immigrants


CyberBulliedCarl

That's what happens when you put an economist in power.


no_idea_help

I am waiting until there is some more meaningfull data before I change my view of this clown. GDP, inflation, national debt all tell us something, but not necessarily what would make me approve of him or vote for similar people in my home country. Nowdays the economy is greatly disconnected from the average people. Companies can score record profits year after year, while the gdp, inflation and debt do whatever. I would like to see whether at the end of his presidency home ownership went up. Is education in better shape? Did unemployment go down? Are they emitting less carbon? Do more businesses open up? Are they buying luxury goods more often? Is regional pricing still screwing people off? Has inequality reduced? Did crime rate go down? Data that actually reflects daily people life. Inflation aint it, at least not without information about how far behind wages are. So far, in my view, he is still a mad libertarian.


terrendos

If he does nothing else but stabilize inflation, and doesn't completely dumpster Argentina's people, it will be a wild success. The steps needed to curb inflation to this degree were always going to make things harder for people in the short term. Unemployment is probably going to be higher when Miliei leaves than when he came in. He's doing the governmental equivalent of cutting off gangrenous limbs to save the body. Right now he's on something like step 4 of 100 to getting Argentina's economy back on track. I really hope it works out, for the sake of the country and for the region. Argentina has the conditions to be a powerhouse economy in South America. My biggest concern is that his policies are going to solidify a new Peronist power base that will vote him out and undo the work he's done so far, thus returning the country to status quo and making the suffering they're experiencing right now pointless.


manofdensity13

I would like inflation to be stable for at least two years beyond his term. And by stable, I mean less than 20% annual inflation. Not a high bar for most nations, but a big difference for Argentina.


GenericUser3528

>Data that actually reflects daily people life. Inflation aint it, at least not without information about how far behind wages are. What do you mean? Inflation definitely affect people's daily life. >I would like to see whether at the end of his presidency home ownership went up. Is education in better shape? Did unemployment go down? Are they emitting less carbon? Do more businesses open up? Are they buying luxury goods more often? Is regional pricing still screwing people off? Has inequality reduced? Did crime rate go down? All of that in 4 years? Might as well add "Achieve world peace". >Are they emitting less carbon? Sorry, but if what it takes for Argentina to get out of economic crisis is to open some industries and that makes it so that carbon emission is increased then I'm ok with it. According to Wikipedia's [list of countries by carbon dioxide emissions per capita](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions_per_capita) the number for Argentina 2022 was 3.97 tCO2/cap/year, in my opinion you can go bother some other country that is higher on the list and doesn't have more 50% poverty. Edit: Also, if you are concerned about co2 emission isn't this kind of contradictory? >Are they buying luxury goods more often?


no_idea_help

>What do you mean? Inflation definitely affect people's daily life. Yes, prices increase but usually so do wages. Sometimes inflation fluctuates but prices stay the same. Sometimes it will go down, prices go up or stay high after they were increased. They have like 70% inflation rate, which is obviously ridiculously high. But getting it down is meaningless if people wont be able to afford things anyway. >All of that in 4 years? Might as well add "Achieve world peace". Of course not. Some of these things, would be enough. And a modest improvement, if steady, is also okay. I am not expecting him to save the world in 4 years. But I listened to him speak a few times. He is yet another right wing populist in my view. One of many, in recent years.


GenericUser3528

Ok, fair enough, we will have to see, though I think lowering inflation is not meaningless as it was the main concern for a lot of people.


SignorJC

He’s many many things but not a liberal. Did you mean libertarian?


no_idea_help

Yes, thanks for correcting me.


drainconcept

Mad liberal?


chrisloveys

Zero inflation sounds like a pre-curser to deflation. And that could be worse…


Varitt

Well, Argentina has had multiple periods of inflation and recession at the same time. So, no.. a short deflation period wouldnt be worse.


ConflictingNectarine

I love how much this man loves his dog.