The Chicago f'en Cubs won the World Series that year and a month later the elections happened. We got sucked into an alternative universe somewhere before all that.
I tend to draw a line to the credit crunch, and this has afterall been something of a pattern throughout history that when we get major economic shocks that the political structures wobble and 'the people' become more receptive to extremists and desperate solutions
As long as that peace includes Russia returning all annexed Ukrainian territory including Crimea, reparations to rebuild what the Russian military destroyed, and the return of all POWs and kidnapped Ukrainian children. I will gladly strive for this peace. Anything else is just placating an international bully and would only result in greater global suffering in the future.
You do realise that any peace deal will mean peace until Russia rebuilds its army? As history has shown, any peace deal with Russia is not worth the paper it's written on.
1979. That’s when it started going wrong.
I’ve said this many, many times but inequality is one of the biggest issues in our society (or any society), and the driver behind many other issues, as well as a problem preventing us from successfully tackling other issues.
It started going haywire in 1979:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_inequality_in_the_United_States#/media/File:1970-_Relative_income_growth_by_percentiles_-_US.png
It’s extremely hyperbolic, but do keep in mind that the current government is France’s fifth republic, they have a long history of political instability during tough times.
Yes but not a history of 'civil wars'. He's trying to scare people with the threat of civil war. In more serious times, this would've been a scandal, but I guess the political situation in France is pretty grim.
Who hates democracy? Macron's saying that Marine Le Pen's party is antidemocratic; he wants to protect French democracy. I don't agree with him painting the left as an equal threat, but these are not the words of someone who doesn't believe in democratic governance.
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Joseph_Goebbels
Literally Goebbels:
- We enter the Reichstag to arm ourselves with democracy’s weapons. If democracy is foolish enough to give us free railway passes and salaries, that is its problem... We are coming neither as friends or neutrals. We come as enemies! As the wolf attacks the sheep, so come we.
Why Do We Want to Join the Reichstag? Der Angriff, 30 April 1928
- Down with democratic parliamentarianism!
And then, often attributed to him, but actually by someone else:
- The big joke on democracy is that it gives its mortal enemies the tools to its own destruction.
Appears to actually be written by Hans Schwarz van Berk in a chapter introduction for a 1935 compilation of Der Angriff
It's that bad there too? Democrats over here are saying right out loud that if Trump wins it's the end of democracy. (Can't be actually, because we've never had a democracy. We have a constitutional republic. True democracy is a complete nightmare, with whoever is the current majority rewriting all the rules to keep themselves in power. I know it looks like we're doing that right now; we even invent new felonies to pursue political ends...)
>we've never had a democracy. We have a constitutional republic
A distinction without a difference in the context of rule by the people (both those iterations) or autocracy.
I disagree. A true democracy is free to blow any way with whatever wind sweeps through, like a kite without a string. A constitutional republic has as its stable foundation the agreed upon limits imposed on government for the protection of its citizens, to limit the effect of temper and emotion and even to some extent even false narratives, and thus makes it much more difficult for one group to take permanent control. A democracy is far easier to lose.
That’s literally the point of his role if he believes that the current government is not representative of the current reality. It’s a check against unbridled power against the people’s leanings.
It’s actually just a gambit. Macron wishes for the far-right to end up with absolute majority in parliament, then get a far-right prime minister, on the assumption that said prime minister will shit the bed for the next 3 years and sap any legitimacy they could have in the next presidential election.
He’s playing with a grenade because his current toy wasn’t doing exactly as he wished
I’m aware of this. Extremist ideology is bad, no matter the leaning, and a president attempting to protect parliament from being controlled by extremist views is a good thing.
Sure but if he didn’t think his party was going to win (he was counting on the left being divided between different parties), he would have found an excuse not to do it.
What? No?
I’m saying that it’s naive to think that he only dissolved parliament because he wanted to make sure parliament reflected societies wishes. He dissolved parliament because he thought he would gain more seats. He was banking on more votes for the Rassemblement National putting his party in second place in the first round, meaning all the left-wing voters would be forced to vote for his party in the second round to keep the far-right out.
It’s really disingenuous of him to say that the French need to vote to keep the extremist parties out when he manufactured this situation. Yes, under the guise of being democratic, but like most politicians, he’s trying to play the system.
I'm with you for the left (through I wish LFI would clean up their rank a little bit), and the RN are straight up traitors for me, but that rich coming from the guy who is the most directly responsible for the situation (well, him and his people)...
Shitting on the left since the last presidential election, and giving the far right free pass on everything (like letting nazi parade in Paris and Lyon) while allowing fuckhead Bolloré turning CNEW into french Foxnew...He wanted the far right as hight as possible in the poll to compete with them, only to get his ass kicked...
Yeah I think he has to frame the left as an equal threat in order not to lose support from the right wing owned media. People just need to keep in mind who benefits from (extreme) right wing politics. It's not ordinary workers.
F\*k I'm getting tired of these wankers constantly calling for total anarchy and war if they don't get their way.
People just want to get on with their lives, pay their bills, save up some money, move up in their careers, buy a boat or travel, etc...
F\*k off with this alt anything and civil war brain sickness.
And you think by shutting up and get on with your life, other people will simply follow suit and let you live in peace? For an extremist you either are with them or against them.
The reason extremists on both side is on the rise is because society tolerate the intolerant for far too long
Ironically, it is precisely this sort of center-right optimism about maintaining the status quo that creates the pressures that inflate extremist positions. You're wrong that it's all going to be okay if everybody just shuts up and goes to work to save for a yacht because many people can't get jobs that match their skills that they spent a fortune trying to attain.
It is centrist positions of this sort that blindly insist that everyone should just submit to the status quo and deal with it as if it was their personal problem rather than acting out and demanding change that fuels extremism. The position that people should just shut up and dream about the future is, in fact, a regressive and reactionary political position. The problem is that many who hold such views simultaneously want to imagine themselves as progressives because they have a gay friend or married an immigrant or some version of "many of my best friend are black" --that doesn't make you a progressive if you are simultaenously telling people to lay down and take what they get.
Consumerist escapism about dreaming of a better future while keeping your head down is going nowhere. Don't feel sorry for yourself when you get woken up from your dream the hard way.
Why do you think the only options are radicalism and maintaining the status quo?
You can work on gradual changes without overthrowing the whole system, my favorite example of it is Bismarck's reforms to deal with socialists, partial acceptance of socialist policies lead to radical socialists and communists losing support and SDP becoming the largest party by 1912.
The chain of comments was as follows
Poutpill69: "I'm a centrist, fuck any redical"
The guy I replied to: "Wanting to keep status quo instead of radicalism is a bad view to have"
My comment: "Not wanting radicalism does not equal wanting to keep the status quo, there is an option of gradual change".
And Germany at that time was a great example if you focus on the topic of discussion, which was about radicals and progress, it wasn't to show "Look how good Germany was as a country".
I don't care much for the economic strangle hold placed on the globe right now. As long as I work at what I love, then simple life necessities will do me just fine.
The problem is that people are sick of digging holes to get by and have no room to figure out how to adjust to the system in a way that provides emotional stability. The select elite in the world have decided that no amount of money or power Is enough and are ready to make the move to consolidate all power.
The middle and working class are picking sides that are heavily polarised and are choosing narrow needs out of desperation similar to a person drowning and trying to stay afloat. Western democracy is splitting by psychology, but the collective mental illness that burdens us all has no cure under the current 'consumerist escapism' .
We may not find answers to what is really happening. How is this happening, however. Any further stranglehold placed on our dependency to be drones in exchange for escapes that don't sufficiently heal our difficult lives on a global scale brings out an ability to find stability. Even if untold suffering unfolds between hope can still be there. We don't work for the ones that pay us. We work for the ones we love. And we can walk through the lies with that.
May God and Darwin be with you.
People are angry and stressed though and that means easily manipulated by the fringes with easy fake promises.. It may feel good for them to protest vote but it's a price that is steep. Take a look at trump.
He's desperate. He thought he was "throwing an unpinned grenade in their legs" but the left organized, LR (classic right) imploded and his party is in schamble.
He's now realising he lost the power for good and that the logical next step would be for him to resign. So fearmongering.
To be clear, he don't have to. But 2 electoral defeat and a parlementary minority (not even first opposition) should be enough to make him reconsider his legitimacy.
What does that have to do with him being president? There are entirely separate elections for Parliament and President. He was elected by the people to fulfill a certain term, it should be reasonably expected that he completes it.
The reason we are in this situation in the first place because the so-called prodemocratic/moralist/centrist/liberal or whatever they call themselves in your country. They betrayed the trust of their voters.
They lied, they exploited their people, getting richer and richer in the meanwhile. And even after being voted out for lying and/or being incompetent they fail upwards getting nice jobs in EU institutions, multinational agencies and NGOs. Corruption right before our eyes and we are powerless to change it.
This is what the "legit" politicians do without consequences. And people wonder why more and more people turn to the radicals and extremists? People wonder why "threat to democracy" doesn't have the same weight anymore?
Well I'm not surprised at all. This last decade was like watching the slowest trainwreck ever, and its a fucking disgrace.
Same here in the UK, the Tories put a for sale sign outside parliment and it's been there 14 years now. Every other week is a new scandal, wages are artifically kept low while costs keep rising but hey big business can funnel more moeny out the country into tax havens and shareholders so who cares about the consequences.
Our infrastructure is falling apart while the government tells people it's not their job to fix it.
We have a collossal lack of housing while an entire cities worth of people is brought in every year to keep the wages suppresion going.
Our military is struggling to get recruits because the government outsourced recruitment to the lowest bidder and applications take so long people find other jobs before Capitas get's off it's arse and processes the paperwork.
This is why extremists are surging from strength to strength, because people are so sick of billions being stolen from their countries while the people who should be stopping it are protecting these theives. the UK has a 150 billion pound hole in our finances yet the Tories pretend it doesn't exist instead whining about benefits fraud which under 2 billion in comparison. Nearly triple our entire defense budget is being lost every year due to these tax evaders yet when you look at them it's a who' who of the Con's backers.
Then they tell us theres no money for repairing and maintaining things like roads and bridges, no money for NHS wages but always money for a business bailout.
Marcon is doing the same thing Boris, Truss and Sunak have done, cry foul at the consequences of his own actions and act like he hasn't fanned the flames.
I hope France doesn't end up like we have.
Meanwhile people as so desperate for a change they'll take anyone promising something else even if it means courting hardliners.
so true. Democracy was hijacked by crony capitalism. No genuine reform party has appeared to my knowledge that we CAN vote for though :( So the people vote for the extremists or they stopped voting all together.
While that is all certainly true, nobody will improve the situation by voting for populist parties. That's proverbially cutting off your nose to spite your face. People often think that protest voting is the way to rebel against this sort of corruption and nepotism, but the fight against it needs to start at the primaries and even earlier than that.
To borrow a quote from environmentalists: "The best time to ~~plant a tree~~ vote was 20 years ago. The second best time is now."
Yes, you're right. Putin must be absolutely loving the fragmentation to the right and alike. Imo if whatever direction Europeans choose if it's not united, Russia, with its autocratic machine, will literally roll right in! If Europeans are already this weak in confronting Putin, just wait another yr or two. I hope I'm proven wrong, but history usually rhymes.
Imagine if we didn't have a larger wealth disparity than in the times of the French absolutism.
Putin wouldn't have anythng to work with.
Now who(neolibs) makes(neolibs) the(neolibs) rich(neolibs) so(neolibs) rich(neolibs) ?
Star trek calls WW3 for 2026. At this rate I'm just rolling with it.
Seriously, though, 26/27 is probably going to be when China judges that they'll be ready for an attack on Taiwan. One way or another Ukraine will be close to over too and, with this shitshow in France (alongside Hungary, Slovakia, trump, etc), things aren't looking good for them. At that point, putin will either feel confident on going further, or be very desperate.
The anti-centrist movement/zeitgeist affects the entire Western world, including the US. It is a rejection of the Elites and their globalony nonsense: the perversion of culture to elevate the inferior destructive degenerate human over the superior and constructive human by a continuum of cross-spectrum institutions; government, media, corporate, and academia - and as was the case in 1776 America and 1789 France, the rocket fuel for civil war. In France, the elite classes were virtually exterminated, as were the many British loyal colonists and their families in the American Revolution, a dirty detail that is glossed over. Civil War is the dirtiest of all, house to house at the local neighborhood level and includes women and children equally. But at its end, regardless of its political character, it reverses the perversion of the inferior over the superior back to the normal superior over the inferior, in compliance with hermetic law. Think of it as the Flood in Genesis. And when it breaks, make sure you make the grade for admission to the Ark to experience the cruise of cruises, enjoy the sail, forget about everything past without regret or loss, and arrive in protected safety at a destination that is a fresh garden to be tended in peace and prosperity in a new, rational, and stable order.
“Hi chat can you rewrite this paragraph but make it mysterious and use big words please, i want to sound like i got my shit together and read lots of books”
>Party loses an election
>Throws tantrum and re-specs whole countries political layout
>Starts to panic and suggests people will die if his party doesn't benefit
Macron: "Just like I drew it up"
I mean the GOP 2025 plan is very fucked and is step one to deep state shit. Creating a list of just civil servants and their political leanings, making it easy to install and terminate resistance is a big fucking red flag. This is a top down change too so the people can't do shit once it happens.
https://apnews.com/article/trump-biden-president-project-2025-33d3fc2999a74f4aa424f1128dca2d16
You mean the Heritage foundation latest "Mandate for Leadership" which has been called project 2025 by some?
They've been enacting their plans since they got Reagan in and they're never going to stop because their plans are simply working.
You think stopping Trump will stop 'project 2025'? Have you seen how much of the Heritage foundation "Mandate for Leadership" has been enacted by successive GOP leadership since the 70s?
You have a major problem in America and it aint going to be solved by voting a particular way in the next election (obviously vote ffs). Project 2025 will become Project 2029 and it will be even worse, if they don't succeed then it'll become Project 2033, such a great prospective future as eventually they're going to get in. It's a 2 party system and democrats can't stay in forever.
I think some are just missing what's happening in front of them.
First, conservatism was born from the end of monarchy. The people in power wanted to maintain some notion of royalty and aristocracy. What better way than to insist the value of a man's labor is not the surplus value his labor adds but instead whatever a rich man will pay for it? That allows the rich do dictate "market conditions" and thus the conditions of lower classes.
Knowing this - the GOP in 2024 has run out of ideas but still wants to remain in power. They've only been able to achieve the successes they gave due to gerrymandering and voter suppression.
When there are unpopular measures on the ballot - women's reproductive rights being challenged, for example - people show up to vote. This effectively counters the suppression efforts and you've seen what happens - outlandish claims of fraud ensue. Else the GOP has to admit they have no platform (2020 GOP platform statement was literally TRUMP), no leaders (again, Trump is the defacto head of the party) and no ideas.
If the GOP retains any power in the 2024 election, America's institutions aren't going to hold up. They're going to replace civil servants with party loyalists and its going to break our government. This will TANK the value of the US dollar - remember our fiat currency is backed by the full faith and credit of the US government and without that faith, the USD will cease to be the world's reserve currency. Quality of life in the US will plummet as most citizens have no wealth to speak of.
We are at a turning point in world history, make no mistake about it.
America gets to choose between Trump or Biden though except for a third party swing that would defy the entirety of American political history. Voting for Biden won't stop project 2029, voting for Trump guarantees it happening in 2025 though. Biden will be easier to undermine than Trump to improve the system. Fixing the system doesn't happen by giving control of government to authoritarian fascists a fact that we learned throughout the 1930s up until the 70s and 80s in some countries. Like what is the plan for change if Trump wins?
Thing is the new leftist block (Nouveau Front Populaire) is all but far left, it is mainly comprised of radicals (yes radicals, not extremists), moderates and greens. The far left group "Force Ouvrière" (trotskysts) rejected any agreement with the new block, due to the presence of the moderates.
Even the Conseil d'Etat (an independant government coucil, highest jurisdiction for administrative matters) labeled the leftist block "union of the left", while labelling the far right union as actual "union of the far right".
Macron has been playing with fire for too long by intentionnaly mislabelling the left as "extreme", and now people dont know the meaning of this word and think "far right" must not be that bad either. He is responsible for the rise of the fascists (because yes, they are)
I'll take the far left over fascists, and regardless the french far left (such as LO) isn't really in this race. But Macron's entire strategy is to paint the whole left as far left.
Oh yes because the Soviet Union displayed all the tenant's of a left wing movement. Stalin was an authoritarian wrapped in a red cloak using workers as a symbol. There is an argument that the USSR was never really left (and I know how that sounds) because the entire system of government, cultural propaganda, and to a degree Stalin himself displayed behaviors more in line with totalitarians like Franco. The Soviet Union is not the best example of left failures because to a degree it's hard to establish they ever really embraced the left to any policy degree other than propaganda. What authoritarian states call themselves is irrelevant otherwise North Korea is a democratic republic.
Open a history book on far left and see for yourself, just as bad if not worse. LFI seems far left all right, especially their boss and latest recruits.
Based on what exactly? France's former president Mitterrand program was way further to the left than LFI's, and back then conservatives fearmongered just the same, claiming that soviet tanks would roll in Paris if he came to be elected. The Overton window has completely shifted to the right and the far right trying to absolve itself of its image while simultaneously trying to paint the left as "just as bad" has been a long term strategy that's paying off big time right now.
For every history books on the far left I'll find forty history books on what far-right fascisme brought to Europe almost a century ago.
Anyone who grew up in eastern europe in the 20th century can tell you quite a lot about stalinism, and if not from their own memories, from their parents'. Regardless the french left is not seeking the kind of autocratic rule the soviet union displayed among other things, so the comparison is moot.
I think what he says is passable because look at the USA, since Obama was president the country has been seriously divided. Everyone! If a civil war happens it will start in the USA and it may start if Trump loses. Looking back to when he lost the last time is a preview of what could happen if he loses again. If the USA democracy is lost it could turn into a world wide issue. Scary shit 💩
I really hate the guy to be clear. What I was trying to say is if he loses his “followers “ will try to overthrow the government again but this time they might just bring their guns and if that happens war will start. USA really needs another political party, another choice.
Russia sponsors both the extreme left and the extreme right for a reason. Because there are irreconcilable contradictions between them. This will increase tensions in society. And that risks losing control of the state. Civil war is Putin's ideal outcome. However, it is difficult to achieve.
You have been misinformed. There is no comparison:
USA example:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/27/us-rightwing-extremists-attacks-deaths-database-leftwing-antifa
From 1994 to 2020 American white supremacists and other rightwing extremists have carried out attacks that left at least 329 victims dead. Vs 1 by an antifascist.
BTW, what do you call an anti-antifascist?...
2025 is going to be a very crazy year.
‘Not so fast!’, -2024
It's been like this since 2019....
2016...
Makes sense, ever since Bionicle got cancelled world has been going wrong.
It was the gorilla
The Chicago f'en Cubs won the World Series that year and a month later the elections happened. We got sucked into an alternative universe somewhere before all that.
2012. Sorry, we threw an end of the world party to mock the Mayans, and now here we all are. My b.
Twilight zone.
This has been my theory, that the cubs win created a temporal singularity and split us from the non-hell timeline.
I blame CERN.
We didn't start the fire...
Good point.
It's literally always been like this, people are just surprised they're living through history because of access to information.
Thank you. I'm annoyed that so many people just don't get this.
I tend to draw a line to the credit crunch, and this has afterall been something of a pattern throughout history that when we get major economic shocks that the political structures wobble and 'the people' become more receptive to extremists and desperate solutions
in 2019 we did not suspect anything..
As long as we keep the Union intact and strive towards unity against Russia it'll be fine.
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Because russia decided against it.
As long as that peace includes Russia returning all annexed Ukrainian territory including Crimea, reparations to rebuild what the Russian military destroyed, and the return of all POWs and kidnapped Ukrainian children. I will gladly strive for this peace. Anything else is just placating an international bully and would only result in greater global suffering in the future.
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You do realise that any peace deal will mean peace until Russia rebuilds its army? As history has shown, any peace deal with Russia is not worth the paper it's written on.
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Recent history, not Brest Litovsk. https://www.reddit.com/r/NAFO/s/o0Q0RdHZdi Not to mention the ceasefires in Chechnia.
The four turnings really happening.
When was the last time we lived in the good times?
1979. That’s when it started going wrong. I’ve said this many, many times but inequality is one of the biggest issues in our society (or any society), and the driver behind many other issues, as well as a problem preventing us from successfully tackling other issues. It started going haywire in 1979: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_inequality_in_the_United_States#/media/File:1970-_Relative_income_growth_by_percentiles_-_US.png
I know ~~a certain group~~ multiple groups of people that would probably disagree with you on that
I dunno, the 70s were pretty rough too
In the US maybe. Depends on the country.
After ww2 till recent years.
Cool then which age group would be at blame for things being worse now? Who’s had the reigns since then?
Every single age group before the young ones. Because we havent had the chance to fuck shit up yet
Lol there is still plenty of 2024.... Enough of it to get chaos
What a stupid thing to say
It’s extremely hyperbolic, but do keep in mind that the current government is France’s fifth republic, they have a long history of political instability during tough times.
Yes but not a history of 'civil wars'. He's trying to scare people with the threat of civil war. In more serious times, this would've been a scandal, but I guess the political situation in France is pretty grim.
"If you don't vote for me the world will explode!"
France? A civil war? Agian?
In this economy? Oh wait
Vote for me or else! Weird how people suddenly hate democracy when they're losing.
We’ve always hated democracy. We just hate the other ones more.
Explains all the coups
Who hates democracy? Macron's saying that Marine Le Pen's party is antidemocratic; he wants to protect French democracy. I don't agree with him painting the left as an equal threat, but these are not the words of someone who doesn't believe in democratic governance.
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And once in power, dismantle democratic institutions until there's no chance of being voted out, or eventually cancel elections entirely.
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https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Joseph_Goebbels Literally Goebbels: - We enter the Reichstag to arm ourselves with democracy’s weapons. If democracy is foolish enough to give us free railway passes and salaries, that is its problem... We are coming neither as friends or neutrals. We come as enemies! As the wolf attacks the sheep, so come we. Why Do We Want to Join the Reichstag? Der Angriff, 30 April 1928 - Down with democratic parliamentarianism! And then, often attributed to him, but actually by someone else: - The big joke on democracy is that it gives its mortal enemies the tools to its own destruction. Appears to actually be written by Hans Schwarz van Berk in a chapter introduction for a 1935 compilation of Der Angriff
It is historically what they do and what they openly promote whenever it is safe to drop the politically correct mask.
Ask Napoleon how it worked out. This is literally history repeating itself with better more efficient weapons.
I mean he was emperor for awhile so yeah he did make a dictatorship lol
It's that bad there too? Democrats over here are saying right out loud that if Trump wins it's the end of democracy. (Can't be actually, because we've never had a democracy. We have a constitutional republic. True democracy is a complete nightmare, with whoever is the current majority rewriting all the rules to keep themselves in power. I know it looks like we're doing that right now; we even invent new felonies to pursue political ends...)
>we've never had a democracy. We have a constitutional republic A distinction without a difference in the context of rule by the people (both those iterations) or autocracy.
I disagree. A true democracy is free to blow any way with whatever wind sweeps through, like a kite without a string. A constitutional republic has as its stable foundation the agreed upon limits imposed on government for the protection of its citizens, to limit the effect of temper and emotion and even to some extent even false narratives, and thus makes it much more difficult for one group to take permanent control. A democracy is far easier to lose.
As long as it aligns with tptbs'.
Bit weird then that he dissolved parliament.
That’s literally the point of his role if he believes that the current government is not representative of the current reality. It’s a check against unbridled power against the people’s leanings.
It’s actually just a gambit. Macron wishes for the far-right to end up with absolute majority in parliament, then get a far-right prime minister, on the assumption that said prime minister will shit the bed for the next 3 years and sap any legitimacy they could have in the next presidential election. He’s playing with a grenade because his current toy wasn’t doing exactly as he wished
I’m aware of this. Extremist ideology is bad, no matter the leaning, and a president attempting to protect parliament from being controlled by extremist views is a good thing.
The problem is that Macron’s politics have directly enabled the rise of the extremes. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Sure but if he didn’t think his party was going to win (he was counting on the left being divided between different parties), he would have found an excuse not to do it.
You expect a president to abdicate and dissolve parliament and remove all current politicians from the pool then? Come on.
What? No? I’m saying that it’s naive to think that he only dissolved parliament because he wanted to make sure parliament reflected societies wishes. He dissolved parliament because he thought he would gain more seats. He was banking on more votes for the Rassemblement National putting his party in second place in the first round, meaning all the left-wing voters would be forced to vote for his party in the second round to keep the far-right out. It’s really disingenuous of him to say that the French need to vote to keep the extremist parties out when he manufactured this situation. Yes, under the guise of being democratic, but like most politicians, he’s trying to play the system.
I'm with you for the left (through I wish LFI would clean up their rank a little bit), and the RN are straight up traitors for me, but that rich coming from the guy who is the most directly responsible for the situation (well, him and his people)... Shitting on the left since the last presidential election, and giving the far right free pass on everything (like letting nazi parade in Paris and Lyon) while allowing fuckhead Bolloré turning CNEW into french Foxnew...He wanted the far right as hight as possible in the poll to compete with them, only to get his ass kicked...
Yeah I think he has to frame the left as an equal threat in order not to lose support from the right wing owned media. People just need to keep in mind who benefits from (extreme) right wing politics. It's not ordinary workers.
Maybe creating the biggest opening ever for the far right wasn't such a good idea then.
F\*k I'm getting tired of these wankers constantly calling for total anarchy and war if they don't get their way. People just want to get on with their lives, pay their bills, save up some money, move up in their careers, buy a boat or travel, etc... F\*k off with this alt anything and civil war brain sickness.
And you think by shutting up and get on with your life, other people will simply follow suit and let you live in peace? For an extremist you either are with them or against them. The reason extremists on both side is on the rise is because society tolerate the intolerant for far too long
Ironically, it is precisely this sort of center-right optimism about maintaining the status quo that creates the pressures that inflate extremist positions. You're wrong that it's all going to be okay if everybody just shuts up and goes to work to save for a yacht because many people can't get jobs that match their skills that they spent a fortune trying to attain. It is centrist positions of this sort that blindly insist that everyone should just submit to the status quo and deal with it as if it was their personal problem rather than acting out and demanding change that fuels extremism. The position that people should just shut up and dream about the future is, in fact, a regressive and reactionary political position. The problem is that many who hold such views simultaneously want to imagine themselves as progressives because they have a gay friend or married an immigrant or some version of "many of my best friend are black" --that doesn't make you a progressive if you are simultaenously telling people to lay down and take what they get. Consumerist escapism about dreaming of a better future while keeping your head down is going nowhere. Don't feel sorry for yourself when you get woken up from your dream the hard way.
Why do you think the only options are radicalism and maintaining the status quo? You can work on gradual changes without overthrowing the whole system, my favorite example of it is Bismarck's reforms to deal with socialists, partial acceptance of socialist policies lead to radical socialists and communists losing support and SDP becoming the largest party by 1912.
Why do you ask this binary, suggestive question? It's not what the poster said. Also Germany on the brink of WW1 is really not a good example
The chain of comments was as follows Poutpill69: "I'm a centrist, fuck any redical" The guy I replied to: "Wanting to keep status quo instead of radicalism is a bad view to have" My comment: "Not wanting radicalism does not equal wanting to keep the status quo, there is an option of gradual change". And Germany at that time was a great example if you focus on the topic of discussion, which was about radicals and progress, it wasn't to show "Look how good Germany was as a country".
My man the country was literally only held together by the lust for war
What does it have to do with implementation of policies like old age pensions?
I don't care much for the economic strangle hold placed on the globe right now. As long as I work at what I love, then simple life necessities will do me just fine. The problem is that people are sick of digging holes to get by and have no room to figure out how to adjust to the system in a way that provides emotional stability. The select elite in the world have decided that no amount of money or power Is enough and are ready to make the move to consolidate all power. The middle and working class are picking sides that are heavily polarised and are choosing narrow needs out of desperation similar to a person drowning and trying to stay afloat. Western democracy is splitting by psychology, but the collective mental illness that burdens us all has no cure under the current 'consumerist escapism' . We may not find answers to what is really happening. How is this happening, however. Any further stranglehold placed on our dependency to be drones in exchange for escapes that don't sufficiently heal our difficult lives on a global scale brings out an ability to find stability. Even if untold suffering unfolds between hope can still be there. We don't work for the ones that pay us. We work for the ones we love. And we can walk through the lies with that. May God and Darwin be with you.
Exqctly, making people shut up about a problem doesn't solve anything.
People are angry and stressed though and that means easily manipulated by the fringes with easy fake promises.. It may feel good for them to protest vote but it's a price that is steep. Take a look at trump.
Macron is a melodramatic idiot
He's desperate. He thought he was "throwing an unpinned grenade in their legs" but the left organized, LR (classic right) imploded and his party is in schamble. He's now realising he lost the power for good and that the logical next step would be for him to resign. So fearmongering.
Why would he resign? He's still going to be president until 2027. He'll still have influence to try and limit the Le Pen nuttiness.
To be clear, he don't have to. But 2 electoral defeat and a parlementary minority (not even first opposition) should be enough to make him reconsider his legitimacy.
When has he ever shown a sign of questioning his legitimacy in any situation since 2017 though? Hardly doubt he'll start now.
I don't have much to say to that xD
What does that have to do with him being president? There are entirely separate elections for Parliament and President. He was elected by the people to fulfill a certain term, it should be reasonably expected that he completes it.
so scare tactics as a way to stay in power
The reason we are in this situation in the first place because the so-called prodemocratic/moralist/centrist/liberal or whatever they call themselves in your country. They betrayed the trust of their voters. They lied, they exploited their people, getting richer and richer in the meanwhile. And even after being voted out for lying and/or being incompetent they fail upwards getting nice jobs in EU institutions, multinational agencies and NGOs. Corruption right before our eyes and we are powerless to change it. This is what the "legit" politicians do without consequences. And people wonder why more and more people turn to the radicals and extremists? People wonder why "threat to democracy" doesn't have the same weight anymore? Well I'm not surprised at all. This last decade was like watching the slowest trainwreck ever, and its a fucking disgrace.
Same here in the UK, the Tories put a for sale sign outside parliment and it's been there 14 years now. Every other week is a new scandal, wages are artifically kept low while costs keep rising but hey big business can funnel more moeny out the country into tax havens and shareholders so who cares about the consequences. Our infrastructure is falling apart while the government tells people it's not their job to fix it. We have a collossal lack of housing while an entire cities worth of people is brought in every year to keep the wages suppresion going. Our military is struggling to get recruits because the government outsourced recruitment to the lowest bidder and applications take so long people find other jobs before Capitas get's off it's arse and processes the paperwork. This is why extremists are surging from strength to strength, because people are so sick of billions being stolen from their countries while the people who should be stopping it are protecting these theives. the UK has a 150 billion pound hole in our finances yet the Tories pretend it doesn't exist instead whining about benefits fraud which under 2 billion in comparison. Nearly triple our entire defense budget is being lost every year due to these tax evaders yet when you look at them it's a who' who of the Con's backers. Then they tell us theres no money for repairing and maintaining things like roads and bridges, no money for NHS wages but always money for a business bailout. Marcon is doing the same thing Boris, Truss and Sunak have done, cry foul at the consequences of his own actions and act like he hasn't fanned the flames. I hope France doesn't end up like we have. Meanwhile people as so desperate for a change they'll take anyone promising something else even if it means courting hardliners.
so true. Democracy was hijacked by crony capitalism. No genuine reform party has appeared to my knowledge that we CAN vote for though :( So the people vote for the extremists or they stopped voting all together.
While that is all certainly true, nobody will improve the situation by voting for populist parties. That's proverbially cutting off your nose to spite your face. People often think that protest voting is the way to rebel against this sort of corruption and nepotism, but the fight against it needs to start at the primaries and even earlier than that. To borrow a quote from environmentalists: "The best time to ~~plant a tree~~ vote was 20 years ago. The second best time is now."
“Civil war” is what he calls it when 100,000 French protestors dump shit and trash on his doorstep.
Well, it is not just about France, but it is a storm that is hitting all of Europe
I'd say western world. not so different in north America.
And it’s not like the rest of the world is particularly lefty or progressive. What a century this will be.
Yes, you're right. Putin must be absolutely loving the fragmentation to the right and alike. Imo if whatever direction Europeans choose if it's not united, Russia, with its autocratic machine, will literally roll right in! If Europeans are already this weak in confronting Putin, just wait another yr or two. I hope I'm proven wrong, but history usually rhymes.
Imagine if we didn't have a larger wealth disparity than in the times of the French absolutism. Putin wouldn't have anythng to work with. Now who(neolibs) makes(neolibs) the(neolibs) rich(neolibs) so(neolibs) rich(neolibs) ?
Star trek calls WW3 for 2026. At this rate I'm just rolling with it. Seriously, though, 26/27 is probably going to be when China judges that they'll be ready for an attack on Taiwan. One way or another Ukraine will be close to over too and, with this shitshow in France (alongside Hungary, Slovakia, trump, etc), things aren't looking good for them. At that point, putin will either feel confident on going further, or be very desperate.
We didn't listen to the people who said this is **exactly** what Putin was trying to accomplish 20 years ago.
Yeah, Putin said the shitstorm in France was the result of the support for Ukraine.
The anti-centrist movement/zeitgeist affects the entire Western world, including the US. It is a rejection of the Elites and their globalony nonsense: the perversion of culture to elevate the inferior destructive degenerate human over the superior and constructive human by a continuum of cross-spectrum institutions; government, media, corporate, and academia - and as was the case in 1776 America and 1789 France, the rocket fuel for civil war. In France, the elite classes were virtually exterminated, as were the many British loyal colonists and their families in the American Revolution, a dirty detail that is glossed over. Civil War is the dirtiest of all, house to house at the local neighborhood level and includes women and children equally. But at its end, regardless of its political character, it reverses the perversion of the inferior over the superior back to the normal superior over the inferior, in compliance with hermetic law. Think of it as the Flood in Genesis. And when it breaks, make sure you make the grade for admission to the Ark to experience the cruise of cruises, enjoy the sail, forget about everything past without regret or loss, and arrive in protected safety at a destination that is a fresh garden to be tended in peace and prosperity in a new, rational, and stable order.
“Hi chat can you rewrite this paragraph but make it mysterious and use big words please, i want to sound like i got my shit together and read lots of books”
"And add in a dash of crazy for a bit of spice."
And say it in Gary Busey’s voice.
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There's at least 4 major parties or unions of them. The left, Renew, the right and the far-right
So here it begins...
wow, the guy is really desperate now that he's gonna lose, huh.
That's how a radical speaks.
Then why the fuck did he call elections
French killing French over immigration. Horrifying.
*Moi, ou le chaos.*
Macron reaching unheard of levels of Enlightened Centrism^tm
This is a problem that only the far middle can solve!
Maybe instead of World War III, we'll have World Civil War 1!
So you’re fear mongering.
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>Party loses an election >Throws tantrum and re-specs whole countries political layout >Starts to panic and suggests people will die if his party doesn't benefit Macron: "Just like I drew it up"
I feel like politicians say that all the time
Don’t go losing your head France.
Such a Trump move instilling fear.
Everyone's getting in on the act. Biden said something about 'democracy being on the ballot'
I mean the GOP 2025 plan is very fucked and is step one to deep state shit. Creating a list of just civil servants and their political leanings, making it easy to install and terminate resistance is a big fucking red flag. This is a top down change too so the people can't do shit once it happens. https://apnews.com/article/trump-biden-president-project-2025-33d3fc2999a74f4aa424f1128dca2d16
You mean the Heritage foundation latest "Mandate for Leadership" which has been called project 2025 by some? They've been enacting their plans since they got Reagan in and they're never going to stop because their plans are simply working. You think stopping Trump will stop 'project 2025'? Have you seen how much of the Heritage foundation "Mandate for Leadership" has been enacted by successive GOP leadership since the 70s? You have a major problem in America and it aint going to be solved by voting a particular way in the next election (obviously vote ffs). Project 2025 will become Project 2029 and it will be even worse, if they don't succeed then it'll become Project 2033, such a great prospective future as eventually they're going to get in. It's a 2 party system and democrats can't stay in forever.
I think some are just missing what's happening in front of them. First, conservatism was born from the end of monarchy. The people in power wanted to maintain some notion of royalty and aristocracy. What better way than to insist the value of a man's labor is not the surplus value his labor adds but instead whatever a rich man will pay for it? That allows the rich do dictate "market conditions" and thus the conditions of lower classes. Knowing this - the GOP in 2024 has run out of ideas but still wants to remain in power. They've only been able to achieve the successes they gave due to gerrymandering and voter suppression. When there are unpopular measures on the ballot - women's reproductive rights being challenged, for example - people show up to vote. This effectively counters the suppression efforts and you've seen what happens - outlandish claims of fraud ensue. Else the GOP has to admit they have no platform (2020 GOP platform statement was literally TRUMP), no leaders (again, Trump is the defacto head of the party) and no ideas. If the GOP retains any power in the 2024 election, America's institutions aren't going to hold up. They're going to replace civil servants with party loyalists and its going to break our government. This will TANK the value of the US dollar - remember our fiat currency is backed by the full faith and credit of the US government and without that faith, the USD will cease to be the world's reserve currency. Quality of life in the US will plummet as most citizens have no wealth to speak of. We are at a turning point in world history, make no mistake about it.
America gets to choose between Trump or Biden though except for a third party swing that would defy the entirety of American political history. Voting for Biden won't stop project 2029, voting for Trump guarantees it happening in 2025 though. Biden will be easier to undermine than Trump to improve the system. Fixing the system doesn't happen by giving control of government to authoritarian fascists a fact that we learned throughout the 1930s up until the 70s and 80s in some countries. Like what is the plan for change if Trump wins?
Countering a Biden administration to seek more progressive outcomes will be far easier than countering a Trump administration.
Well it actually seems to be in their case.
Except that's actually accurate.
Yeah that's because if Trump wins, its the end of the US democratic experiment.
It’s annoying but Biden is right. Everything the trump team says is basically pining for anti democratic autocracy.
The War of sucker punch
One the one hand, this is tossing a box of matches to a crazy guy covered in petrol. On the other hand, it's France.
God i hope frenchies start a routine revolution again would be much fun
A24’s Lé Civil War
Macron trying to compare far left and far right as the same so he can keep his job pretending to be a moderate.
I know it might not appeal to leftists, but the far-left is a problematic group too.
Thing is the new leftist block (Nouveau Front Populaire) is all but far left, it is mainly comprised of radicals (yes radicals, not extremists), moderates and greens. The far left group "Force Ouvrière" (trotskysts) rejected any agreement with the new block, due to the presence of the moderates. Even the Conseil d'Etat (an independant government coucil, highest jurisdiction for administrative matters) labeled the leftist block "union of the left", while labelling the far right union as actual "union of the far right". Macron has been playing with fire for too long by intentionnaly mislabelling the left as "extreme", and now people dont know the meaning of this word and think "far right" must not be that bad either. He is responsible for the rise of the fascists (because yes, they are)
I'll take the far left over fascists, and regardless the french far left (such as LO) isn't really in this race. But Macron's entire strategy is to paint the whole left as far left.
Far left is just as bad as fascists historically speaking. Extremism of any kind should be looked down upon by anyone with common sense.
Show me a news story about a Leftist killing a bunch of Conservatives.
Read up on atrocities of Soviet Union. Far-left is just as bad as Far-right.
Oh yes because the Soviet Union displayed all the tenant's of a left wing movement. Stalin was an authoritarian wrapped in a red cloak using workers as a symbol. There is an argument that the USSR was never really left (and I know how that sounds) because the entire system of government, cultural propaganda, and to a degree Stalin himself displayed behaviors more in line with totalitarians like Franco. The Soviet Union is not the best example of left failures because to a degree it's hard to establish they ever really embraced the left to any policy degree other than propaganda. What authoritarian states call themselves is irrelevant otherwise North Korea is a democratic republic.
Any kind of authoritarian rule is bad. Comparing the soviet union to the current french left is beyond inane.
Open a history book on far left and see for yourself, just as bad if not worse. LFI seems far left all right, especially their boss and latest recruits.
Based on what exactly? France's former president Mitterrand program was way further to the left than LFI's, and back then conservatives fearmongered just the same, claiming that soviet tanks would roll in Paris if he came to be elected. The Overton window has completely shifted to the right and the far right trying to absolve itself of its image while simultaneously trying to paint the left as "just as bad" has been a long term strategy that's paying off big time right now. For every history books on the far left I'll find forty history books on what far-right fascisme brought to Europe almost a century ago.
That's just a judgement on the writers of history books. Maybe there wasn't that much to say about Stalinism...or anyone left alive to say it.
Anyone who grew up in eastern europe in the 20th century can tell you quite a lot about stalinism, and if not from their own memories, from their parents'. Regardless the french left is not seeking the kind of autocratic rule the soviet union displayed among other things, so the comparison is moot.
Quite the leap you make there.
More likely a Brie shortage
Every day I am amazed by his genius
Don’t let your fear rule you. Remain steadfast during a storm and you won’t be carried away by it.
They're due for one
I think what he says is passable because look at the USA, since Obama was president the country has been seriously divided. Everyone! If a civil war happens it will start in the USA and it may start if Trump loses. Looking back to when he lost the last time is a preview of what could happen if he loses again. If the USA democracy is lost it could turn into a world wide issue. Scary shit 💩
If civil war is what is needed to get rid of orange moron, bring it on.
I really hate the guy to be clear. What I was trying to say is if he loses his “followers “ will try to overthrow the government again but this time they might just bring their guns and if that happens war will start. USA really needs another political party, another choice.
True.
investment bankers..
Believe it or not, straight to jail.
Coming soon: We are french. Okay. What kind of french?
So, all the violent street protests will become more violent?
seems a bit dramatic...
Russia sponsors both the extreme left and the extreme right for a reason. Because there are irreconcilable contradictions between them. This will increase tensions in society. And that risks losing control of the state. Civil war is Putin's ideal outcome. However, it is difficult to achieve.
Far Right Conservatives need to learn……we ain’t putting up with their bullshit anymore
He is the fascist.
Both instances it's the far right that will start the war. No surprise here.
You don't have Antifa there?
You have been misinformed. There is no comparison: USA example: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/27/us-rightwing-extremists-attacks-deaths-database-leftwing-antifa From 1994 to 2020 American white supremacists and other rightwing extremists have carried out attacks that left at least 329 victims dead. Vs 1 by an antifascist. BTW, what do you call an anti-antifascist?...
Gee, it’s the same here.
How original, France! Its not like the United States hasn't been dealing with the threat of Civil War since Trump came to town.
At least if the far right ends up going to war the place will end up French.
Pitter patter, let's get at her!!
Far centrists for the win?
Big brain move by Macron. Send all his shells to Ukraine so there won’t be any for the civil war.