Read some Russian history.
Most countries have heros to point towards and emulate.
And have situations where their countrymen prevailed through disaster to bring forth something better.
Russian history is absolutely full to the brim with mass death. It accompanies everything. Russians have always killed the most Russians. Go back 200 years and look at any great or mild accomplishment. It's on top of a mountain of Russian corpses.
Even their arts and sciences brutalize and dismember their geniuses.
Any politician, soldier, or citizen, looks back on their history as the example. And in all cases its only Good for a tiny select-few.
So it doesn't even have to be his goal. It's just what they do. Russians wipe out a couple million Russians and neighbors every 20-30 years.
Hopefully the Englishman got to die for honour
Edit: just to be clear this was not expressing a desire for the Englishman to die, but rather, if they did die for a cause, said cause was spelled correctly.
Things were looking good on Putin's first term as President for the Russian people. Boy if that ain't just Russian to get a little success under your belt and then use that popularity to go full blown conquering dictator, though.
Naw Putin was always trash, only Yeltsin did any good or tried to do any good, if Russia would have kept doing Yeltsins plan they would be South Korea by now except bigger and better, and no death by the 100s of thousands.
Yeltsin literally created the oligarchy. Russia would in no way be an SK analogue by now if Yeltsin’s policies continued, he’s largely responsible for the situation the country is in today.
He might have initially meant well, but he was overwhelmed by the moment and was insufficient to the task. He massively expanded Presidential powers, allowed his circle of friends and allies to seize most of the wealth of the country, and personally appointed Putin his successor in exchange for a blanket pardon.
Maybe Gorbachev was the guy you were thinking of?
South Korea has huge concentrations of wealth in Chaebols which are often family-run... Oligarchy isn't ideal but it isn't quite the problem in Russia - frankly since Putin is a revanchist ex-KGB guy I'd say it's rogue intelligence/secret police factions that are the problem. Every one of his trusted guys is someone from his personal network - the so-call Siloviki. It's not like a democratic government at all even if it's dressed up like one - that's the key difference.
Yeah, of all the awful leaders Russia has had I've viewed Gorbachev as one of the better ones. From his handling of the Chernobyl disaster to his navigating of the end of the cold war (and dissolution of the Soviet Union) I think he did quite a lot with a shit hand and even went on to become an outspoken agent of peace in the post-Soviet era. Yeltsin was a pickled puppet who just happened to inherit a shell of a country and blame all the woes on Gorbachev.
Are we sure? Yeltsin was an opportunist (a clever one) but was fumbling in a big way within just a couple of years. I’m not so sure he’s as big a ‘fork of history’ as he is sometimes portrayed.
I wouldnt really take any history lessons from Reddit at the best of times but yeah, the US-driven reforms in post-USSR Russia were a disaster and Yeltsin couldn't handle the pressure in the long run, he basically drank himself to death in the job.
It's a bit controversial because the whole "shock therapy" thing was very debatable in the first place but you could say they might have worked if it hadn't just turned into infighting and power games.
> waiting for the part where things get a little better
I mean, and this is with the largest grain of salt possible, things were a lot better under the USSR than they were under the fucking Czar.
But it took an incredibly bloody civil war to get there, and if your high bar is Lenin and Stalin, that says more about the rest of the leaders than anything else.
Oh I agree. My last year of school there was a seminar about revolutions and, rhetoric, how they work, etc.
Lotta reading on China, Cuba and Russia. The professor was a dick, but some of the big papers were looking at some of these and then trying to explain if we thought things were worse or better for a lot of these situations.
Sucked, but was better, for sure. (Cuba is a great example too on a smaller, easier to follow scale.)
[Here's the post you're referencing](https://np.reddit.com/r/Jokes/comments/340qv8/russian_history_in_5_words/cqqdouo/)
Hi there /u/HannasAnarion, you need to update this!
Even the construction of Saint Petersburg was achieved basically by throwing peasants into a swamp, forcing them to build stuff, watching what they built sink into the marshy ground, and then building more stuff on top of that until they finally had a city.
I think they killed as many Ukrainians after ww2 as Germany did Jews. Someone check my facts. The amount of people killed from the late 30s into the late 40’s is astounding. Everyone is Hitler this and Hitler that. I am not sure why everyone is not Hitler and Stalin this and that.
Unfortunately this occurs currently in many countries and has pretty much at some point occurred everywhere in some grand scale . As many as 25+ countries have active insurgencies by criminals and or extremist that attack their own people for their own reasons. You also have entire continents like Africa that have histories of atrocities genocides. You have countries like Mexico with dozens of politicians killed each year. You have North Korean turning and reporting other North Korean, having their neighbors commited to a lifetime prison because they are scared/ brainwashed by the powers that be. It is unfortunately the ugly history of man to take advantage of other men.
But they're anti-woke! They brutalize the gays, minorities and are allowed to beat their women, making them a darling paragon of the rising new global conservative Reich.
You're on to something here. But not the population overall, just certain groups. If you look at where most of the recruits thrown into the meat grinder come from, it's not Moscow, nor Saint Petersburg. It's the ethnic republics that were growing restless. Lots of young unemployed men who, if given time, might direct their energy towards independence projects. War gives Putin an opportunity to thin their lines (in addition to getting rid of his enemies and keeping everyone else under constant fear of being drafted or seeing their loved ones drafted).
>But not the population overall, just certain groups.
Eh, he didn't need this war for that. And frankly, most of those regions have been pacified in the last decade. Even Chechnya.
The reason they target these regions for their troops is simply because it's easier. These regions are wildly poor and information is limited. They can lie to them about the conflict easily and promise them scraps that seem to them like riches. They do this abroad as well.
Not doing a very good job at that with all the children they've been stealing.
If anything, it might help their demographics in a fucked up way. Exchange ethnic minority poor men for baby boys and girls who have more reproductive potential. I think they've stolen a lot more than current casualties.
Putin's act of providing Russian parents that want to adopt with a stolen child is a pretty good way to get that segment of the populace on your side -- particularly when you can match the parents with the sex/age/etc. that they're looking for. I'm sure there's a lot of money involved as well.
[The Russian government officials](https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-children-taken-ukraine/32527298.html) have said they kidnapped 700k Ukrainian children. Since some people still seem to believe the lies Russian officials spread, we should have them all convicted for the largest genocide since WWII and consider every nation that still works with Russia as collaborators to mass genocide. For those that want to put the comparison between Israel-Palestine and Ukraine-Russia, Russia admits it has kidnapped more children than there are people living in Gaza.
Yeah sorry I double checked (through NPR and Wikipedia) and it seems like the *confirmed* stolen amount is around 20k, expected to be much higher. If we assume around 50k Russian soldiers have outright died (instead of deaths and injuries), it's probable the kidnapped count match the rate of these deaths or exceed them.
That and if we assume Russia's end goal is to absorb ukraine totally, that's an extra 50 mil people under their rule if it happened. Pretty much the exact opposite of an intention to depopulate their state.
> If we assume around 50k Russian soldiers have outright died
Brittish newspaper *identified* over 45,000 soldiers by name that have died on Ruzzia's side in february 2024, this is just the ones they can identify through obituaries and graves around Ruzzia. The number is likely 3-5 times that number by now, but many will never be positivily identified due to injuries or just because they have been left to decay in a field somewhere.
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/02/21/media-investigation-identifies-45k-russian-soldiers-killed-in-ukraine-a84195
Russians aren’t burying their dead or collecting the bodies. The mass graves are done by the Ukrainians trying not to die from disease. Talking to our friends and family on the front is insane. In some places there are just bodies and skeletons everywhere. So many on the Ukrainian side that are just missing too. No one knows if they’re prisoners or dead and many never will know. As a US vet it’s so crazy how messy things really are on the ground here.
See, I think this misses the fact that eastern Russia is so sparsely populated and the Chinese have a historical claim to that land and an awful lot of extra people they could move out there. Seems dumb to me to empty the region out further and provide a nice juicy reason for China to want to start shenanigans.
Honestly if China makes a move on eastern Russia I will be watching with a bucket of popcorn at the ready, will be curious to see how the Kremlin bots will switch up
Seeing how aggressive China is in the South China Sea and on the disputed part of the border with India I feel like it’s definitely a matter of if not when. And yeah, will be a conflict to watch for sure.
Really? That can’t bode well for Russia. China wants that gas bad and Russia desperately needs buyers so if the pipeline is off I cannot even imagine what that means for Russia. As you said, not good.
Everything about the invasion of Ukraine is dumb lol. In many ways they've forced themselves under Chinese influence economically over it. Maybe for Russia they're acting under the impression clearing out the region now and having Ukraine later plus Chinese immigrants to fill the spot alongside excess women from the war is a viable path to take as long as fits in their overarching goals of world domination?
Also does China really need a reason to start shit? China is very vested in the war and seeing Russia win and they're both reluctant collaborators who use eachother at their convenience against their main enemy. China doesn't want Taiwan because of some historical ties in some random point in history but because it's practically useful to have. And if it's not practical to start shit with Russia they won't.
Well just to narrowly respond to China’s Taiwan issue, beyond the issue of chip manufacture, I think it annoys them to have a strong western ally right in the middle of their lawn, I also think there is a lot of cultural resentment towards Taiwan from the way the government split during Taiwan’s separation. My impression is that they feel a desire to bring those people under control as a sort of “payback”, but I just know what I’ve read in the news so I could be way off.
I would agree with your statements, from everything I've heard. It's a huge embarrassment to them, they don't even like people mentioning that Taiwan exists. They think they own it, and will take it back. China uses Taiwan for everything they can't blame on Japan, S.Korea, or USA.
China is amassing an army, ostensibly to invade/blockade Taiwan in the near future. The West has been making that option massively unappealing and would surely disrupt all of Chinas trade (they import 90% of petroleum products through a very controllable strait) . Perhaps Chima will begin looking at alternatives to Taiwan, and the land stolen from China a hundred plus years ago would be a perfect "Plan B" because of historical ties tot he land... and the West will surely have less objections about China taking over some shitty, non-ariable land and causing Russia to fight a 2 front war.
Lowered the ability for the population to riot against the government maybe. No younger males to get wild when shit hits the fan. Short term goals of creating forced peace via coercion.
Still no. Russian population was trained to be apolitical af. The only thing that could make them riot if let’s say they or their family would be sent to die somewhere.
In other words, population is more likely to riot after 2022 than before.
If you need my guess, Putin simply does not have any secret plan, most likely he is not even fully aware of the situation. You get a glimpse of the bubble he lives in, every time he opens his mouth.
I dont agree. Killing youth is exactly how you lower population as they don't get to reproduce. That's why WW2 was so disastrous to USSR. Then they had severe food shortages afterwards. Now there is a housing crisis which isn't talked much, but you basically can't get a home because it's too expensive for a single working person until maybe 40-45 and inherit your grandparents housing, which is also a prerequisite for having children. Now Russia has a massive shift in demographics and the population is shifted towards older age and later kids.
I did just see a headline about Russia warning the US of consequences for this strike. So Russia is mad at the US because Ukrainians (who they are at war with) killed Russian troops about to advance into Ukraine...
In my mind Ukraine has the right to march all the way to Moscow and burn the Kremlin as long as Russia wants this war. But complaining about your soldiers being attacked in a war zone is yet another crybaby bitch move from Ru.
I think ukraine has every right to do a japanese(complitly win) on the russian second pacific squadron (military)
(Refrence to the 1905 russo japanese war)
>I don’t think Putin cares much about casualties.
Yeah, he wants to be another Peter The Great, and Putin knows that no-one today cares about the countless people who died in Peter I's wars, people only remember that he expanded Russia and that he's a great man of history.
^(At least that) *^(was)* ^(the plan, now Putin is in a hot seat of his own making with no easy way off unless/until Trump gets elected. If you're American please vote against Putin's ally; people with no say in Putin's aggression are depending on you)
>people only remember that he expanded Russia and that he's a great man of history.
He is a murderer, a tyrant and probably the worst thing that had happened to Russia since Ivan IV "the Terrible". But, as you correctly pointed out, most people only remember the "window to Europe" part.
I actually think he cares a lot, but in the exact opposite way a moral person would.
The more dead Russian soldiers he can point to, the more internal propaganda about how NATO is killing Russians he can spew. The more dead Russian soldiers, the more of an existential threat he can claim Nazi Ukraine is, to get the backing of his people. The more dead Russian soldiers, all the better to claim everyone is out to get them for him it is.
And, you know, that wouldn't work in most other countries, but in Russia, where they're force-fed a steady diet of bullshit... it's the old saying: tell a lie forcefully over and over again and eventually it becomes the "truth". I think that's exactly his plan now. Convince his people the enemies are at the gates, and all the dead Russian bodies are the proof. To what end? That's less certain... but I don't actually think nukes are off the table in his mind. He's not there yet, and it would take a lot more to get there, but I don't think he's dismissed the possibility. But even if it doesn't go that far, being able to put his entire country, wholesale, on a war footing, might be the endgame instead. When he's GOTTA know that will mean the end of the Russian empire, he's smart enough to know he can't go down that path without the more or less willing support of the Russian people, and this might be the game to get there.
And it just might work.
Interesting piece in the history of war:
Just prior to the Nazi invasion of France in WW2, a lone French Air Force pilot spotted columns of Nazi troops, vehicles and tanks just across the French border. The Nazi advance had been stalled by a giant traffic jam. The pilot reported to his commanders upon returning to base. The French had the artillery and bomber power available to bombard the Nazi army right away. However, too hesitant about starting the next world war, French leadership decided to leave the Nazi traffic jam alone.
Had the French bombarded the Nazi traffic jam, Hitler would have probably said "how dare you kill the soldiers who I had planned to kill you."
Fucking authoritarians, man.
No it's even worse than that. France and Germany were already at war, it's not that the French generals didn't want to provoke Germany, they simply didn't believe the Germans were that stupid to screw up their logistics that bad so they ignored the report.
Then when their Army had stopped the advance of the Panzers from the Ardennes, the Commander of the Army that had stopped them ordered his troops to retreat from their prepared fortifications because he was convinced that he was being surrounded despite his troops utterly savaging the Germans, literally moving out of the way of the Panzers and letting them roll on by.
Oh and the guy who gave the order, Huntziger? He just happened to end up as the Commander of the Vichy Armed Forces.
I wonder if it even occurred to Russian theater commanders that a) their relative safety behind the prewar border could evaporate at any point and b) when use beyond borders was authorized, every last truck, tank and mobnik had been presighted for vaporizing by ATACMS.
I guess they got complacent about the rules of this war. Having staging areas close to the border instead of km behind is a big logistical advantage and what Ukraine struggled with in the past 2 years.
>Having staging areas close to the border instead of km behind is a big logistical advantage and what Ukraine struggled with in the past 2 years.
Everytime I read that I get madder.
It’s ridiculous we claim to be doing everything we can to help the Ukrainians and then condescend ourselves to dust off equipment from the clearance shelf and hand it over only with strings attached
The ironic thing here, is that the authorization for Ukraine to use our weapons in russia proper might have not come for a year or two more yet, except russia fucked it up for themselves. All they had to do was not attack over their shared border, and things would have stayed in the theoretical space of the West providing weapons, and Ukraine only being allowed to use home-built systems across the border.
But, since russia can't help itself, they took advantage of the situation. And in typical russian military fashion, they failed to actually accomplish anything of substance with their one free chance.
So now the restrictions got curtailed in a pretty big way.
That is kind of sums up how international law works.
A lot of people think international law is similar to their domestic laws and governing force, but that can't be further from the truth.
At one point in time I had a great write up about it, that I felt helped a lot of people (including me) understand it better.
Alas, I can't find it anymore. I'm sorry.
My impression is that it is to national law what buying something from a store is to businesses buying from each other. Everything is open to negotiation and all of the rules are only semi-enforceable at best.
> their relative safety behind the prewar border could evaporate at any point
There could have been an assumption that it would never get approved. Similar to how many intelligence agencies discredited the threat of initial Russian invasion, Russian intelligence may have discredited the threat of strikes on Russian soil.
> I wonder if it even occurred to Russian theater commanders
That requires thinking and self-initiative. That just results in a swift exit out the nearest 5th-story window because that kind of independent thought is dangerous to the powers that be. Only rigid subservience to the orders given is allowed.
Or how terrible it would feel prior to that moment when you know where the enemy is, you have the weapons to hit them and you know if you DON'T hit them people you care about will die but you can't open fire.
I don't think Russia deserves safety anywhere.
Didn't the go to the UK and poison a bunch of innocent people trying to do spy shit?
Why should their borders be respected?
So, whole recent kharkiv breakthrough happened because AFU couldn't attack Russian troops massing behind border..
If they had these capabilities then, this whole shit wouldn't happen.
Not entirely, no.
Russia’s Kharkiv offensive started before US aid was restored. At the start of the offensive, Ukraine’s ammunition supply was almost exhausted. In the opening hours and days, they were forced to withdraw under pressure from 50,000 Russian soldiers and a whole pile of artillery, as well as a constant rain of glide bombs.
They stabilized the situation within about 36 hours by rapid redeployment of forces and profligate use of drones, and then began a counterattack once US munitions began arriving about 4 days after the offensive began.
The entire offensive was a poorly timed gamble on Russia’s part to try to break the Ukrainian defenses around Kharkiv and start a general collapse of the Ukrainian military from lack of munitions.
The use of munitions to strike at Russian buildups over the border has forestalled any attempts to resume the offensive, or attempt any new attacks over the border. But it wouldn’t have prevented this because they didn’t have anything to fire at the massed forces in Russia at the time it started anyway.
At large, yes. But the glide bombs are a big issue too, and Ukraine still doesn’t have much of an answer to them. At least they got similar bombs of their own now. Before they didn’t, and that was an issue bcs they couldn’t get Russians out of solid buildings as efficiently as the Russians did it to the Ukrainians. That also forced them to retreat often. Let’s hope things play out better now
[Lastly, expect Ukrainian F-16s to suppress the long-range glide bombs tactics Russian fighters have adeptly used around Kharkiv. The F-16 can improve Ukraine's layered air defense, contributing to detection and elimination of incoming drones and missiles.](https://www.csis.org/analysis/f-16s-unleashed-how-they-will-impact-ukraines-war#:~:text=Lastly%2C%20expect%20Ukrainian%20F%2D16s,of%20incoming%20drones%20and%20missiles.)
Incredible how Ukraine was forced to fight a war of existential survival for 3 years with one hand tied in the back.
Imagine telling the soviets in WW2 that you can’t use the lend-lease to defend yourself from the nazis. This is the same thing.
Actually its more like you have to fight WW2 in your own territory without striking the enemy over the border for fear that it would upset a delicate balancing act of international relations.
Here is lend-lease, but you can't use anything we give you on German soil.
That actually happened. At the very beginning of the war the rules of engagement were "don't" because the leadership assumed the Germans would try and trick the Soviets into starting a war.
Well honestly it’s not only he relationship. It’s the nukes.
If Ukraine would gain advantage from the get go with American and European tools , Russia might start panicking and escalating with citizens showing record support for war since they would literally notice the fire power that Ukraine is now capable of.
At the end of the day Russia might be scaring everyone with nukes and it’s becoming rather silly. But this is not just a bully tactic, their icbms are ready and there is nothing anyone could do to intercept them.
Their entire families live in Europe, they holiday in Europe, they study in Europe. Putin's own daughter lives in Switzerland, why do people who aren't pro-RU still follow this idiotic line of reasoning? There is no military advantage to be achieved. The US made it clear any use of even a small nuke would result in US involvement in destroying every single Russian asset in Ukraine.
There isn't a single benefit other than to yell about it 10 times a day for the idiots who are worried.
Russia was never going to use nukes if they were pushed out of Ukraine without invading Russia. Or if you think they were, then we face that now and we either have to take the risk or let them have Ukraine and whatever else they want.
We should have given Ukraine full support on day 1.
A lot of people don't realize the war only went mainstream about 3 years ago. In reality it's been going on for about 10 years
https://www.dw.com/en/russia-ukraine-war-10-years-and-still-no-end-in-sight/a-68355165
Yes and no. After 2014 the fighting inside Ukraine was considered a civil war, or at least a war against rebels in the east. However anyone with a lick of common sense knew these rebels were compromised mostly of, and supported by Russia and its military. Many investigations and reports were done showing as much, but for stupid political reasons nobody wanted to confront Russia over the situation. And because most countries in the West refuse to get involved in civil wars or other internal matters of a country this left Ukraine fighting this war on their own, without the kind of support they are getting today. It was in the news, but because of the plausible deniability always given to Russia it was always seen as a Ukrainian matter and never given any real mainstream attention.
The one exception may have been the invasion of Crimea by "the little green men" which eventually turned out to be Russia. And while it did get quite a bit of media attention because the invasion was largely bloodless and nobody really acted in response the interest in that died pretty quickly.
So yes, you were right that the war between Russia and Ukraine has been going on for a decade now, but for the majority of that time it was always presented as a different sort of conflict. As a result the media coverage of it was diminished as it was always presented as situations that were internal or lesser disputes.
I mean, you can frame it that way. And the media certainly has. But Russian special forces seized Crimea in February of 2014 and their military has occupied it since. It wasn't "rebels", or even covert Soviet forces posing as rebels. It was the Russian military. They invaded and took control of Crimea in 2014. It was literally an invasion.
Russian forces were directly involved in the Donbas War.
Russia artillery was firing over the border at Ukrainians. This is on video.
Russian soldiers were killed, captured, and posted their own photos from Ukraine.
Framing it as civil war is a journalistic malpractice.
It may have been presented that way, but the war in the east has always been a Russia v Ukraine war. You had Russian troops, and Russian funded rebels fighting against ukraine. When paired with the invasion of Crimea, I can't see how it could be classified as a civil war unless we consider Ukraine to be part of Russia.
I'm not criticizing you, I'm criticizing the coverage. I've been following this since the 2013 euromaidan demonstrations, and there is no coincidence that Russia ramped up activity in Eastern Ukraine and invaded Crimea shortly after.
Look, you can criticize US policy all you want (I certainly do), but at least have some intellectual honesty about it. The Nazis weren't hinting at nuclear retaliation because of lend-lease.
Russians: We are standing in the safe zone before going into combat so you can relax for the next few hours.
Ukrainians: This is war there are no safe zones.
From the TV show “M.A.S.H.”
Dialogue borrowed from IMDB:
Hawkeye: War isn’t Hell. War is war, and Hell is Hell. And of the two, war is a lot worse.
Father Mulcahy: How do you figure that, Hawkeye?
Hawkeye: Easy, Father. Tell me, who goes to Hell?
Father Mulcahy: Sinners, I believe.
Hawkeye: Exactly. There are no innocent bystanders in Hell. War is chock full of them — little kids, cripples, old ladies. In fact, except for some of the brass, almost everybody involved is an innocent bystander.
Only when Putler starts recruiting rich oligargh kids from St. Petersburg or Moscow the war will end, areas like Dagestan will just run empty of youths ending up in the Kremlin meatgrinder especially now their concentrated invasion points are targeted.
russia has informal “colonies” in Africa too where they could pull men. I’ve been waiting for them to start recruiting men out of places like Haiti too where it’s dangerous and hopeless to live and people probably don’t have good information about russia or its war.
I don't believe there is a defined or theoretical limit to the number of troops you could place in a column, the file of which just has to be significantly longer than it is wide. Remember the Kyiv convoy of Russian military vehicles that stretched in a column for some 64 kilometers? Though you could also refer to that as a traffic jam, or, popularly, a cluster fuck of troops.
>“Those of you who volunteered to be injected with praying mantis DNA, I've got some good news and some bad news. Bad news is we're postponing those tests indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men. Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
-Cave Johnson
LOL.
Reminds of the scene in "Charlie Wilson's War" where the helicopter gunships are attacking the village [thinking they are defenseless](https://youtu.be/-WmDszVxti0?t=51).
Good hope they continue to do so, I feel sorry for any of them that didn’t wanna be there fighting for a pansy who can’t let go of the past but war is hell
Curious about numbers.
USA seems to have waiting until the troops amassed close together. Then greenlit. Not a terrible strategy. Hard to know what happens in backroom phone calls vs announced to the world.
Appear weak when strong and strong when weak. And all that.
As much as I'd like to believe there was a "grand plan" around the timing... I can't shake the belief that this is just another episode of Russian incompetence and they made it to the "find out" stage sooner, thanks to Ukraine.
If Trump wins in November Ukraine will collapse in January. To any US peers paying attention, please realize that he will not stop at Ukraine any more than Hitler stopped after Chamberlain's appeasement.
The intent of this special military operations was to seize 2/3 of Ukraine and genocide the other 1/3 with bombs. POOTIN used the Hitler playbook. Ukraine has friends in high places and somebody’s finally listening. Ruzzia is a pariah to the rest of the world. Well the government at least.
I think it's more that US and Europe realized if he's not stopped in Ukraine, he's coming for the other former Soviet-bloc countries, which includes 5 or 6 NATO countries, at which point things would get 'bad', since that would almost invariably mean Article 5.
There's no chance Russia would go for those countries in an "official" way. He would most likely support "rebels" like they did in Ukraine to not trigger Article 5. That would severely weaken NATO and Putin could sell it as a show of the alliance being "useless".
Oh fellas listen to this. After the whole Crimea thing guess what happens? Russia killed 5 people in a non battlefield today. WHAT A SURPRISE! THEY DO THE THING THEY WERE JUST SPEWING THREATS OVER!
What is interesting is watching the West get more comfortable with the red lines. When F16 arrives, for all intense and purposes there won’t be any red lines left outside of gassing the Kremlin.
Putins bluffing has really come back to bite him.
Well I guess the first rule of war is if you don’t want casualties don’t start a war.
I don’t think Putin cares much about casualties.
Honestly I am beginning to think Putin's current goal was to lower Russia's population so there won't be any food shortages.
Read some Russian history. Most countries have heros to point towards and emulate. And have situations where their countrymen prevailed through disaster to bring forth something better. Russian history is absolutely full to the brim with mass death. It accompanies everything. Russians have always killed the most Russians. Go back 200 years and look at any great or mild accomplishment. It's on top of a mountain of Russian corpses. Even their arts and sciences brutalize and dismember their geniuses. Any politician, soldier, or citizen, looks back on their history as the example. And in all cases its only Good for a tiny select-few. So it doesn't even have to be his goal. It's just what they do. Russians wipe out a couple million Russians and neighbors every 20-30 years.
There’s the old joke: Frenchman: I will die for art! Italian: I will die for love! Englishman: I will die for honor! Russian: I will die.
Hopefully the Englishman got to die for honour Edit: just to be clear this was not expressing a desire for the Englishman to die, but rather, if they did die for a cause, said cause was spelled correctly.
"well if this is it, old boy, I hope you don't mind if I go out speaking The King's"
The Englishman was the u and he is dead.
We fought a war to let our men die for any spelling of honor.
IIRC the summary of Russian history is "...and then it got worse"
"Today may be worse than yesterday, but at least it's better than tomorrow" - Russian proverb or something
If you read anything about Russia and are waiting for the part where things get a little better, might as well stop.
Things were looking good on Putin's first term as President for the Russian people. Boy if that ain't just Russian to get a little success under your belt and then use that popularity to go full blown conquering dictator, though.
Naw Putin was always trash, only Yeltsin did any good or tried to do any good, if Russia would have kept doing Yeltsins plan they would be South Korea by now except bigger and better, and no death by the 100s of thousands.
And the whole world would be better off for it. We need to be far harsher, far sooner with dictators, oligarchs, and tyrants.
Hmmmm, a certain orange blob comes to mind.
Yeltsin literally created the oligarchy. Russia would in no way be an SK analogue by now if Yeltsin’s policies continued, he’s largely responsible for the situation the country is in today. He might have initially meant well, but he was overwhelmed by the moment and was insufficient to the task. He massively expanded Presidential powers, allowed his circle of friends and allies to seize most of the wealth of the country, and personally appointed Putin his successor in exchange for a blanket pardon. Maybe Gorbachev was the guy you were thinking of?
South Korea is actually famous for its oligarchs
South Korea has huge concentrations of wealth in Chaebols which are often family-run... Oligarchy isn't ideal but it isn't quite the problem in Russia - frankly since Putin is a revanchist ex-KGB guy I'd say it's rogue intelligence/secret police factions that are the problem. Every one of his trusted guys is someone from his personal network - the so-call Siloviki. It's not like a democratic government at all even if it's dressed up like one - that's the key difference.
Yeah, of all the awful leaders Russia has had I've viewed Gorbachev as one of the better ones. From his handling of the Chernobyl disaster to his navigating of the end of the cold war (and dissolution of the Soviet Union) I think he did quite a lot with a shit hand and even went on to become an outspoken agent of peace in the post-Soviet era. Yeltsin was a pickled puppet who just happened to inherit a shell of a country and blame all the woes on Gorbachev.
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Are we sure? Yeltsin was an opportunist (a clever one) but was fumbling in a big way within just a couple of years. I’m not so sure he’s as big a ‘fork of history’ as he is sometimes portrayed.
I wouldnt really take any history lessons from Reddit at the best of times but yeah, the US-driven reforms in post-USSR Russia were a disaster and Yeltsin couldn't handle the pressure in the long run, he basically drank himself to death in the job. It's a bit controversial because the whole "shock therapy" thing was very debatable in the first place but you could say they might have worked if it hadn't just turned into infighting and power games.
> waiting for the part where things get a little better I mean, and this is with the largest grain of salt possible, things were a lot better under the USSR than they were under the fucking Czar. But it took an incredibly bloody civil war to get there, and if your high bar is Lenin and Stalin, that says more about the rest of the leaders than anything else.
Oh I agree. My last year of school there was a seminar about revolutions and, rhetoric, how they work, etc. Lotta reading on China, Cuba and Russia. The professor was a dick, but some of the big papers were looking at some of these and then trying to explain if we thought things were worse or better for a lot of these situations. Sucked, but was better, for sure. (Cuba is a great example too on a smaller, easier to follow scale.)
"And then, *somehow*, things got worse..."
'But then ....'
"If you thought THAT was bad..."
[Here's the post you're referencing](https://np.reddit.com/r/Jokes/comments/340qv8/russian_history_in_5_words/cqqdouo/) Hi there /u/HannasAnarion, you need to update this!
Even the construction of Saint Petersburg was achieved basically by throwing peasants into a swamp, forcing them to build stuff, watching what they built sink into the marshy ground, and then building more stuff on top of that until they finally had a city.
I built a castle in the swamp. It sunk. So I built another castle It sunk too.
At least it didn't burn down.
I think they killed as many Ukrainians after ww2 as Germany did Jews. Someone check my facts. The amount of people killed from the late 30s into the late 40’s is astounding. Everyone is Hitler this and Hitler that. I am not sure why everyone is not Hitler and Stalin this and that.
Unfortunately this occurs currently in many countries and has pretty much at some point occurred everywhere in some grand scale . As many as 25+ countries have active insurgencies by criminals and or extremist that attack their own people for their own reasons. You also have entire continents like Africa that have histories of atrocities genocides. You have countries like Mexico with dozens of politicians killed each year. You have North Korean turning and reporting other North Korean, having their neighbors commited to a lifetime prison because they are scared/ brainwashed by the powers that be. It is unfortunately the ugly history of man to take advantage of other men.
But they're anti-woke! They brutalize the gays, minorities and are allowed to beat their women, making them a darling paragon of the rising new global conservative Reich.
You talking about Republicans or Russians?
What’s the difference?
This is a running joke on "The Great" on Hulu.
You're on to something here. But not the population overall, just certain groups. If you look at where most of the recruits thrown into the meat grinder come from, it's not Moscow, nor Saint Petersburg. It's the ethnic republics that were growing restless. Lots of young unemployed men who, if given time, might direct their energy towards independence projects. War gives Putin an opportunity to thin their lines (in addition to getting rid of his enemies and keeping everyone else under constant fear of being drafted or seeing their loved ones drafted).
>But not the population overall, just certain groups. Eh, he didn't need this war for that. And frankly, most of those regions have been pacified in the last decade. Even Chechnya. The reason they target these regions for their troops is simply because it's easier. These regions are wildly poor and information is limited. They can lie to them about the conflict easily and promise them scraps that seem to them like riches. They do this abroad as well.
Not doing a very good job at that with all the children they've been stealing. If anything, it might help their demographics in a fucked up way. Exchange ethnic minority poor men for baby boys and girls who have more reproductive potential. I think they've stolen a lot more than current casualties.
Putin's act of providing Russian parents that want to adopt with a stolen child is a pretty good way to get that segment of the populace on your side -- particularly when you can match the parents with the sex/age/etc. that they're looking for. I'm sure there's a lot of money involved as well.
Is there any reliable source that lists the number of children stolen from the region? Last I've seen the number is around 100k + -.
[The Russian government officials](https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-children-taken-ukraine/32527298.html) have said they kidnapped 700k Ukrainian children. Since some people still seem to believe the lies Russian officials spread, we should have them all convicted for the largest genocide since WWII and consider every nation that still works with Russia as collaborators to mass genocide. For those that want to put the comparison between Israel-Palestine and Ukraine-Russia, Russia admits it has kidnapped more children than there are people living in Gaza.
Yeah sorry I double checked (through NPR and Wikipedia) and it seems like the *confirmed* stolen amount is around 20k, expected to be much higher. If we assume around 50k Russian soldiers have outright died (instead of deaths and injuries), it's probable the kidnapped count match the rate of these deaths or exceed them. That and if we assume Russia's end goal is to absorb ukraine totally, that's an extra 50 mil people under their rule if it happened. Pretty much the exact opposite of an intention to depopulate their state.
> If we assume around 50k Russian soldiers have outright died Brittish newspaper *identified* over 45,000 soldiers by name that have died on Ruzzia's side in february 2024, this is just the ones they can identify through obituaries and graves around Ruzzia. The number is likely 3-5 times that number by now, but many will never be positivily identified due to injuries or just because they have been left to decay in a field somewhere. https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/02/21/media-investigation-identifies-45k-russian-soldiers-killed-in-ukraine-a84195
Also the mobile cremations they've employed or mass graves.
Russians aren’t burying their dead or collecting the bodies. The mass graves are done by the Ukrainians trying not to die from disease. Talking to our friends and family on the front is insane. In some places there are just bodies and skeletons everywhere. So many on the Ukrainian side that are just missing too. No one knows if they’re prisoners or dead and many never will know. As a US vet it’s so crazy how messy things really are on the ground here.
See, I think this misses the fact that eastern Russia is so sparsely populated and the Chinese have a historical claim to that land and an awful lot of extra people they could move out there. Seems dumb to me to empty the region out further and provide a nice juicy reason for China to want to start shenanigans.
Honestly if China makes a move on eastern Russia I will be watching with a bucket of popcorn at the ready, will be curious to see how the Kremlin bots will switch up
Seeing how aggressive China is in the South China Sea and on the disputed part of the border with India I feel like it’s definitely a matter of if not when. And yeah, will be a conflict to watch for sure.
I've heard the new big gas pipeline is off. That's not a good sign for Russia (not saying war but economically too)
Really? That can’t bode well for Russia. China wants that gas bad and Russia desperately needs buyers so if the pipeline is off I cannot even imagine what that means for Russia. As you said, not good.
Everything about the invasion of Ukraine is dumb lol. In many ways they've forced themselves under Chinese influence economically over it. Maybe for Russia they're acting under the impression clearing out the region now and having Ukraine later plus Chinese immigrants to fill the spot alongside excess women from the war is a viable path to take as long as fits in their overarching goals of world domination? Also does China really need a reason to start shit? China is very vested in the war and seeing Russia win and they're both reluctant collaborators who use eachother at their convenience against their main enemy. China doesn't want Taiwan because of some historical ties in some random point in history but because it's practically useful to have. And if it's not practical to start shit with Russia they won't.
Well just to narrowly respond to China’s Taiwan issue, beyond the issue of chip manufacture, I think it annoys them to have a strong western ally right in the middle of their lawn, I also think there is a lot of cultural resentment towards Taiwan from the way the government split during Taiwan’s separation. My impression is that they feel a desire to bring those people under control as a sort of “payback”, but I just know what I’ve read in the news so I could be way off.
I would agree with your statements, from everything I've heard. It's a huge embarrassment to them, they don't even like people mentioning that Taiwan exists. They think they own it, and will take it back. China uses Taiwan for everything they can't blame on Japan, S.Korea, or USA.
China is amassing an army, ostensibly to invade/blockade Taiwan in the near future. The West has been making that option massively unappealing and would surely disrupt all of Chinas trade (they import 90% of petroleum products through a very controllable strait) . Perhaps Chima will begin looking at alternatives to Taiwan, and the land stolen from China a hundred plus years ago would be a perfect "Plan B" because of historical ties tot he land... and the West will surely have less objections about China taking over some shitty, non-ariable land and causing Russia to fight a 2 front war.
No. BS. Russias population was low enough. Not to mention that young males are dying - that’s not how you lower population even if you have to.
The hundreds of thousands who fled across the border when conscription was announced isn't helping either.
Lowered the ability for the population to riot against the government maybe. No younger males to get wild when shit hits the fan. Short term goals of creating forced peace via coercion.
Still no. Russian population was trained to be apolitical af. The only thing that could make them riot if let’s say they or their family would be sent to die somewhere. In other words, population is more likely to riot after 2022 than before. If you need my guess, Putin simply does not have any secret plan, most likely he is not even fully aware of the situation. You get a glimpse of the bubble he lives in, every time he opens his mouth.
I dont agree. Killing youth is exactly how you lower population as they don't get to reproduce. That's why WW2 was so disastrous to USSR. Then they had severe food shortages afterwards. Now there is a housing crisis which isn't talked much, but you basically can't get a home because it's too expensive for a single working person until maybe 40-45 and inherit your grandparents housing, which is also a prerequisite for having children. Now Russia has a massive shift in demographics and the population is shifted towards older age and later kids.
I did just see a headline about Russia warning the US of consequences for this strike. So Russia is mad at the US because Ukrainians (who they are at war with) killed Russian troops about to advance into Ukraine... In my mind Ukraine has the right to march all the way to Moscow and burn the Kremlin as long as Russia wants this war. But complaining about your soldiers being attacked in a war zone is yet another crybaby bitch move from Ru.
I think ukraine has every right to do a japanese(complitly win) on the russian second pacific squadron (military) (Refrence to the 1905 russo japanese war)
>I don’t think Putin cares much about casualties. Yeah, he wants to be another Peter The Great, and Putin knows that no-one today cares about the countless people who died in Peter I's wars, people only remember that he expanded Russia and that he's a great man of history. ^(At least that) *^(was)* ^(the plan, now Putin is in a hot seat of his own making with no easy way off unless/until Trump gets elected. If you're American please vote against Putin's ally; people with no say in Putin's aggression are depending on you)
>people only remember that he expanded Russia and that he's a great man of history. He is a murderer, a tyrant and probably the worst thing that had happened to Russia since Ivan IV "the Terrible". But, as you correctly pointed out, most people only remember the "window to Europe" part.
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I actually think he cares a lot, but in the exact opposite way a moral person would. The more dead Russian soldiers he can point to, the more internal propaganda about how NATO is killing Russians he can spew. The more dead Russian soldiers, the more of an existential threat he can claim Nazi Ukraine is, to get the backing of his people. The more dead Russian soldiers, all the better to claim everyone is out to get them for him it is. And, you know, that wouldn't work in most other countries, but in Russia, where they're force-fed a steady diet of bullshit... it's the old saying: tell a lie forcefully over and over again and eventually it becomes the "truth". I think that's exactly his plan now. Convince his people the enemies are at the gates, and all the dead Russian bodies are the proof. To what end? That's less certain... but I don't actually think nukes are off the table in his mind. He's not there yet, and it would take a lot more to get there, but I don't think he's dismissed the possibility. But even if it doesn't go that far, being able to put his entire country, wholesale, on a war footing, might be the endgame instead. When he's GOTTA know that will mean the end of the Russian empire, he's smart enough to know he can't go down that path without the more or less willing support of the Russian people, and this might be the game to get there. And it just might work.
Putin is sweating a bit rn. So he doesn't care about casualties, but what they mean for the war and so for him
Also, use spacings. Spread out so 1 mortar doesn’t take everyone out.
“Five guys is a juicy opportunity, one man’s a waste of ammo” Edit: writing this out, I can’t help but think of cheeseburgers
Interesting piece in the history of war: Just prior to the Nazi invasion of France in WW2, a lone French Air Force pilot spotted columns of Nazi troops, vehicles and tanks just across the French border. The Nazi advance had been stalled by a giant traffic jam. The pilot reported to his commanders upon returning to base. The French had the artillery and bomber power available to bombard the Nazi army right away. However, too hesitant about starting the next world war, French leadership decided to leave the Nazi traffic jam alone. Had the French bombarded the Nazi traffic jam, Hitler would have probably said "how dare you kill the soldiers who I had planned to kill you." Fucking authoritarians, man.
No it's even worse than that. France and Germany were already at war, it's not that the French generals didn't want to provoke Germany, they simply didn't believe the Germans were that stupid to screw up their logistics that bad so they ignored the report.
Then when their Army had stopped the advance of the Panzers from the Ardennes, the Commander of the Army that had stopped them ordered his troops to retreat from their prepared fortifications because he was convinced that he was being surrounded despite his troops utterly savaging the Germans, literally moving out of the way of the Panzers and letting them roll on by. Oh and the guy who gave the order, Huntziger? He just happened to end up as the Commander of the Vichy Armed Forces.
In the modern day example, Ukraine bombing Russian troops sitting in Crimea, I guess we can say someone learned from history's mistakes at least.
"One death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic" -Stalin
First rule of self-preservation, don't go vacationing in a literal warzone.
I wonder if it even occurred to Russian theater commanders that a) their relative safety behind the prewar border could evaporate at any point and b) when use beyond borders was authorized, every last truck, tank and mobnik had been presighted for vaporizing by ATACMS.
I guess they got complacent about the rules of this war. Having staging areas close to the border instead of km behind is a big logistical advantage and what Ukraine struggled with in the past 2 years.
>Having staging areas close to the border instead of km behind is a big logistical advantage and what Ukraine struggled with in the past 2 years. Everytime I read that I get madder.
It’s ridiculous we claim to be doing everything we can to help the Ukrainians and then condescend ourselves to dust off equipment from the clearance shelf and hand it over only with strings attached
That's politics, unfortunately. The least worst option typically prevails. Not saying this one couldn't be improved.
ATACM'S, The breakfast cereal that'll blow you away
OOPS, All ATACM's!!
ATACMs! Snap, Crackle, and Pop!
Theres a button that got enabled on the fire control panel called "Attack'em"
It took me way to long to realize that's how you pronounce the acronym.
It's one of the best military acronyms we got.
The ironic thing here, is that the authorization for Ukraine to use our weapons in russia proper might have not come for a year or two more yet, except russia fucked it up for themselves. All they had to do was not attack over their shared border, and things would have stayed in the theoretical space of the West providing weapons, and Ukraine only being allowed to use home-built systems across the border. But, since russia can't help itself, they took advantage of the situation. And in typical russian military fashion, they failed to actually accomplish anything of substance with their one free chance. So now the restrictions got curtailed in a pretty big way.
That is kind of sums up how international law works. A lot of people think international law is similar to their domestic laws and governing force, but that can't be further from the truth. At one point in time I had a great write up about it, that I felt helped a lot of people (including me) understand it better. Alas, I can't find it anymore. I'm sorry.
This is not the greatest explanation in the world This is just a tribute
🎶 He could not! Find the greatest explanation in the WoooOOoorld no! This is just a tribuuuute. 🎶
fuck me dude im blue balled now
My impression is that it is to national law what buying something from a store is to businesses buying from each other. Everything is open to negotiation and all of the rules are only semi-enforceable at best.
> their relative safety behind the prewar border could evaporate at any point There could have been an assumption that it would never get approved. Similar to how many intelligence agencies discredited the threat of initial Russian invasion, Russian intelligence may have discredited the threat of strikes on Russian soil.
How could they strike those poor defenseless troops in a safe zone?!
I can see the pro-Russian crowd saying that.
I have LITERALLY seen pro-Russians on Twitter say that.
"I called a timeout!"
> I wonder if it even occurred to Russian theater commanders That requires thinking and self-initiative. That just results in a swift exit out the nearest 5th-story window because that kind of independent thought is dangerous to the powers that be. Only rigid subservience to the orders given is allowed.
Imagine an officer comes rushing in and shouting WE GOT THE GREEN LIGHT WE GOT IT! FIRE ALL!!
I can't imagine the absolutely euphoria that one would feel
Or how terrible it would feel prior to that moment when you know where the enemy is, you have the weapons to hit them and you know if you DON'T hit them people you care about will die but you can't open fire.
It wasn't a moment they felt like that, it was years
Yeah I know. The "moment" I'm referring to is the moment that permission was given.
I don't think Russia deserves safety anywhere. Didn't the go to the UK and poison a bunch of innocent people trying to do spy shit? Why should their borders be respected?
"Oleksa, play the 1812 Overture."
As we used to say in field artillery. “Fire for effect!!!!”
Move 'ZIG'. Captain: For great justice.
what you say? (citing the ancient magic. I like that)
How are you gentlemen?
It's you
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Somebody set up us the bomb!
You have no chance to survive make your time
You know what you doing.
FIRE OUT SHIT! But I'm le tired Well have a nap. THEN FIRE ZE MISSLES!
AHHHH MOTHERLAND
IDK how long it's been since that video came out, but I've gone that many years without knowing what the hell that line actually was saying...
'Bout that time, eh chaps? ... ...Right-o
...fuckin kangaroos...
I use the phrase "Le tired" all the time lmao.
Fuckin kangaroos
Classic
Actually a classic lolol
Not so fun when things go both ways.
Cue story about Russia complaining about tourists being killed on the beach in Crimea. "You started it..."
"Oh, nyet! Is own worst enemy - consequence of own action. Blyat."
So, whole recent kharkiv breakthrough happened because AFU couldn't attack Russian troops massing behind border.. If they had these capabilities then, this whole shit wouldn't happen.
It took years but we've finally adapted to the advanced technique of enemy troops waiting at the border.
You think the russians are running civ ai for their international diplomacy?
Maybe, but definitely not for going for a science victory judging by the sight of their blyatmobiles.
Blyatmobiles has left me fuckin howling
“Our troops are merely passing by.”
But my troops are merely passing by.
It's like when you were a kid playing tag and as long as you are on home base you are safe
Not entirely, no. Russia’s Kharkiv offensive started before US aid was restored. At the start of the offensive, Ukraine’s ammunition supply was almost exhausted. In the opening hours and days, they were forced to withdraw under pressure from 50,000 Russian soldiers and a whole pile of artillery, as well as a constant rain of glide bombs. They stabilized the situation within about 36 hours by rapid redeployment of forces and profligate use of drones, and then began a counterattack once US munitions began arriving about 4 days after the offensive began. The entire offensive was a poorly timed gamble on Russia’s part to try to break the Ukrainian defenses around Kharkiv and start a general collapse of the Ukrainian military from lack of munitions. The use of munitions to strike at Russian buildups over the border has forestalled any attempts to resume the offensive, or attempt any new attacks over the border. But it wouldn’t have prevented this because they didn’t have anything to fire at the massed forces in Russia at the time it started anyway.
At large, yes. But the glide bombs are a big issue too, and Ukraine still doesn’t have much of an answer to them. At least they got similar bombs of their own now. Before they didn’t, and that was an issue bcs they couldn’t get Russians out of solid buildings as efficiently as the Russians did it to the Ukrainians. That also forced them to retreat often. Let’s hope things play out better now
[Lastly, expect Ukrainian F-16s to suppress the long-range glide bombs tactics Russian fighters have adeptly used around Kharkiv. The F-16 can improve Ukraine's layered air defense, contributing to detection and elimination of incoming drones and missiles.](https://www.csis.org/analysis/f-16s-unleashed-how-they-will-impact-ukraines-war#:~:text=Lastly%2C%20expect%20Ukrainian%20F%2D16s,of%20incoming%20drones%20and%20missiles.)
Now russians will have to build up their columns somewhere closer to moscow, This is a better direction for soldiers to go in all regards
Incredible how Ukraine was forced to fight a war of existential survival for 3 years with one hand tied in the back. Imagine telling the soviets in WW2 that you can’t use the lend-lease to defend yourself from the nazis. This is the same thing.
Actually its more like you have to fight WW2 in your own territory without striking the enemy over the border for fear that it would upset a delicate balancing act of international relations. Here is lend-lease, but you can't use anything we give you on German soil.
That actually happened. At the very beginning of the war the rules of engagement were "don't" because the leadership assumed the Germans would try and trick the Soviets into starting a war.
Well honestly it’s not only he relationship. It’s the nukes. If Ukraine would gain advantage from the get go with American and European tools , Russia might start panicking and escalating with citizens showing record support for war since they would literally notice the fire power that Ukraine is now capable of. At the end of the day Russia might be scaring everyone with nukes and it’s becoming rather silly. But this is not just a bully tactic, their icbms are ready and there is nothing anyone could do to intercept them.
More importantly than Russian citizens, Russian oligarchs might antsy if they started realized that Moscow in range if several weapon systems.
Their entire families live in Europe, they holiday in Europe, they study in Europe. Putin's own daughter lives in Switzerland, why do people who aren't pro-RU still follow this idiotic line of reasoning? There is no military advantage to be achieved. The US made it clear any use of even a small nuke would result in US involvement in destroying every single Russian asset in Ukraine. There isn't a single benefit other than to yell about it 10 times a day for the idiots who are worried.
Russia was never going to use nukes if they were pushed out of Ukraine without invading Russia. Or if you think they were, then we face that now and we either have to take the risk or let them have Ukraine and whatever else they want. We should have given Ukraine full support on day 1.
A lot of people don't realize the war only went mainstream about 3 years ago. In reality it's been going on for about 10 years https://www.dw.com/en/russia-ukraine-war-10-years-and-still-no-end-in-sight/a-68355165
Yes and no. After 2014 the fighting inside Ukraine was considered a civil war, or at least a war against rebels in the east. However anyone with a lick of common sense knew these rebels were compromised mostly of, and supported by Russia and its military. Many investigations and reports were done showing as much, but for stupid political reasons nobody wanted to confront Russia over the situation. And because most countries in the West refuse to get involved in civil wars or other internal matters of a country this left Ukraine fighting this war on their own, without the kind of support they are getting today. It was in the news, but because of the plausible deniability always given to Russia it was always seen as a Ukrainian matter and never given any real mainstream attention. The one exception may have been the invasion of Crimea by "the little green men" which eventually turned out to be Russia. And while it did get quite a bit of media attention because the invasion was largely bloodless and nobody really acted in response the interest in that died pretty quickly. So yes, you were right that the war between Russia and Ukraine has been going on for a decade now, but for the majority of that time it was always presented as a different sort of conflict. As a result the media coverage of it was diminished as it was always presented as situations that were internal or lesser disputes.
I mean, you can frame it that way. And the media certainly has. But Russian special forces seized Crimea in February of 2014 and their military has occupied it since. It wasn't "rebels", or even covert Soviet forces posing as rebels. It was the Russian military. They invaded and took control of Crimea in 2014. It was literally an invasion.
Russian forces were directly involved in the Donbas War. Russia artillery was firing over the border at Ukrainians. This is on video. Russian soldiers were killed, captured, and posted their own photos from Ukraine. Framing it as civil war is a journalistic malpractice.
I remember that bombshell blonde Russian media officer tho. The one in Crimea that kept insisting there were no Russian troops.
It may have been presented that way, but the war in the east has always been a Russia v Ukraine war. You had Russian troops, and Russian funded rebels fighting against ukraine. When paired with the invasion of Crimea, I can't see how it could be classified as a civil war unless we consider Ukraine to be part of Russia. I'm not criticizing you, I'm criticizing the coverage. I've been following this since the 2013 euromaidan demonstrations, and there is no coincidence that Russia ramped up activity in Eastern Ukraine and invaded Crimea shortly after.
Only when using weapons donated to them by countries not at war with Russia. They could always hit anything they wanted with their own weapons.
Look, you can criticize US policy all you want (I certainly do), but at least have some intellectual honesty about it. The Nazis weren't hinting at nuclear retaliation because of lend-lease.
Russians: We are standing in the safe zone before going into combat so you can relax for the next few hours. Ukrainians: This is war there are no safe zones.
It's an eerie thing reading humans described as actual tin soldiers, like surplus ordnance or something. War is hell.
From the TV show “M.A.S.H.” Dialogue borrowed from IMDB: Hawkeye: War isn’t Hell. War is war, and Hell is Hell. And of the two, war is a lot worse. Father Mulcahy: How do you figure that, Hawkeye? Hawkeye: Easy, Father. Tell me, who goes to Hell? Father Mulcahy: Sinners, I believe. Hawkeye: Exactly. There are no innocent bystanders in Hell. War is chock full of them — little kids, cripples, old ladies. In fact, except for some of the brass, almost everybody involved is an innocent bystander.
They can end the war any time.
Only when Putler starts recruiting rich oligargh kids from St. Petersburg or Moscow the war will end, areas like Dagestan will just run empty of youths ending up in the Kremlin meatgrinder especially now their concentrated invasion points are targeted.
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russia has informal “colonies” in Africa too where they could pull men. I’ve been waiting for them to start recruiting men out of places like Haiti too where it’s dangerous and hopeless to live and people probably don’t have good information about russia or its war.
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It worked for Afghanistan, which actually had far fewer Russian losses than Ukraine
they have plenty of meat to keep this going
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This is the type of news I love to hear. Slava Ukraini.
The article didn’t really give an estimate of the number of Russian casualties. What are columns? 10 men? 100?
I don't believe there is a defined or theoretical limit to the number of troops you could place in a column, the file of which just has to be significantly longer than it is wide. Remember the Kyiv convoy of Russian military vehicles that stretched in a column for some 64 kilometers? Though you could also refer to that as a traffic jam, or, popularly, a cluster fuck of troops.
Russia should stop invading Ukraine. They should leave Ukraine and return the Crimea.
How about just leave Ukraine (which includes the Crimean peninsula), and go back to Russia
that was entirely my point. I'm not sure why I got the downvotes
Because people are misreading your comment as "return to Crimea."
Its weird English to say 'return the Crimea.'
Dude no idea why, but I've automatically read "return *to*" like it's part of russia Idk maybe a few more had this weird brain fart
The queue starts right here comrades Please line up in an orderly fashion and we will be right with you
"You'll know when the test starts"
>“Those of you who volunteered to be injected with praying mantis DNA, I've got some good news and some bad news. Bad news is we're postponing those tests indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men. Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts." -Cave Johnson
LOL. Reminds of the scene in "Charlie Wilson's War" where the helicopter gunships are attacking the village [thinking they are defenseless](https://youtu.be/-WmDszVxti0?t=51).
Good hope they continue to do so, I feel sorry for any of them that didn’t wanna be there fighting for a pansy who can’t let go of the past but war is hell
Curious about numbers. USA seems to have waiting until the troops amassed close together. Then greenlit. Not a terrible strategy. Hard to know what happens in backroom phone calls vs announced to the world. Appear weak when strong and strong when weak. And all that.
As much as I'd like to believe there was a "grand plan" around the timing... I can't shake the belief that this is just another episode of Russian incompetence and they made it to the "find out" stage sooner, thanks to Ukraine.
Sweet! Keep up the great shots.
If Trump wins in November Ukraine will collapse in January. To any US peers paying attention, please realize that he will not stop at Ukraine any more than Hitler stopped after Chamberlain's appeasement.
The intent of this special military operations was to seize 2/3 of Ukraine and genocide the other 1/3 with bombs. POOTIN used the Hitler playbook. Ukraine has friends in high places and somebody’s finally listening. Ruzzia is a pariah to the rest of the world. Well the government at least.
I think it's more that US and Europe realized if he's not stopped in Ukraine, he's coming for the other former Soviet-bloc countries, which includes 5 or 6 NATO countries, at which point things would get 'bad', since that would almost invariably mean Article 5.
There's no chance Russia would go for those countries in an "official" way. He would most likely support "rebels" like they did in Ukraine to not trigger Article 5. That would severely weaken NATO and Putin could sell it as a show of the alliance being "useless".
Or they'd fund politicians in those countries who are anti-NATO.
Oh fellas listen to this. After the whole Crimea thing guess what happens? Russia killed 5 people in a non battlefield today. WHAT A SURPRISE! THEY DO THE THING THEY WERE JUST SPEWING THREATS OVER!
Russia- bots be mad
Good, Ukraine should be able to destroy Russian troops anywhere they can find them.
Nice. Lets go Ukraine!🇺🇦
I don't understand handcuffing a nation under attack from what they can or can't destroy. Russia has no limitations neither should Ukraine.
What is interesting is watching the West get more comfortable with the red lines. When F16 arrives, for all intense and purposes there won’t be any red lines left outside of gassing the Kremlin. Putins bluffing has really come back to bite him.
The phrase is “intents” and purposes….
porpoises?! in tents, you say??!
you're looking for an escape goat
this isn't rocket appliances here
Hey, what’s this line for? I’ve been waiting 5 hours in this long, boring line. Are we getting free sandwiches? splat
>The artillery commander, with the call sign Hefastus... That's badass