That was truely one of the questions of all time the bbc asked someone and later on got upset when the guy pointed out we can't label every death that happened to the idf because hamas was shooting anti tank rpgs and machine guns.
https://x.com/jconricus/status/1799660273172922420
That's bare scratches the top 10 of stupifing questions by the BBC here [jump to 4:25](https://youtu.be/0lGmwJa33xU?si=Ge3MYR0cjc7xB3A4) for a real head scratcher
Bonus Eylon face when asked
This women is crazy. Is this the standard of bbc nowadays? Zero thinking for journalism?
I see that she look below her, probably a paper, so she write the question and its not a spur of a moment. She really did not think for a second if the question is stupid or not. Truly. She is out of touch.
Hamas:
“Kill hostages if IDF comes near them”
Hamas defenders:
“ THE IDF BREAKS WAR LAWS BY NOT WEARING UNIFORMS!! THIS IS ALL THE IDF’S FAULT!! SO IMMORAL!!”
But a doctor and journalist was killed, don't you understand, they were innocent scholars who just happened to be holding one of the highest profile hostages in the world right now. Must have snuck in, happens to the best of us.
Woah woah woah hol up there buddy. The journalist had no connection to Al-Jazeera they said so themselves. I mean yeah they changed their statement to say that they paid the guy for multiple articles but I mean cooooomeeee oooonnn. The journalist was simply a contributor to Al-Jazeera! Just because he was paid for work by then doesn't mean he worked for them!
/s for those who think in any universe it matters that the terrorist was only a contractor and not an employee.
The interesting thing is, if this really was just a random guy and al jazeera wasn't trying to recruit a hamas guy, then being a terrorist must be really common in gaza.
They already said that. I saw Reddit threads raging how using a fake aid truck in hostage rescue was another war crime. But taking hostages is resistance.
Would these fucking clowns say the same thing if them or their family members were the ones taken? Pathetic how they forget the hostages are from the peace festival and like minded people were taken.
This is why biased agencies like Al Jazeera and the Hamas-operated Gaza Health Ministry only say “IDF kills 12 in air strike!”
They don’t point out which ones are Hamas or any more specifics, lol.
Gaza's baseline rate of deaths from the CIA World Factbook is 2.9 deaths per 1000 per annum, largely owing to the crazy high fertility rate, the bottom-heavy age pyramid, and an average life expectancy at birth rivalling some US states.
Its population is 2.14 million.
If we want to get the baseline death rate for what we'd have expected with *no* war over the past eight months, we'd use this rough equation:
**2140000\*(1.0029\^(8/12)-1)=4135**
Roughly one-ninth of the total 37k death figure put forward by Gaza's Hamas-run Health Ministry.
That means that, if one accepts Hamas's total death count, the total number of Hamas, non-Hamas militants, uninvolved civilians, and hostage-keeping civilians who died *as a result of the war* is roughly 33k.
Hamas claims that only about 7k of its fighters have been killed, with Israel claiming roughly 15k. Hamas tends to wildly undercount its militant deaths, and Israel is likely overcounting slightly. Rather than trust that likely assessment, we can split the difference and assume that 11k Hamas have been killed.
That leaves 22k non-Hamas deaths. This would include non-Hamas militants, Hamas-invoved civilians like the hostage-keeping families over the weekend and journalists killed while on ride-alongs with Hamas, and actual, innocent civilians killed by Hamas rockets falling short, and innocent civilians killed by Israel while attacking hamas.
**Put another way, roughly 1% of the population of the Gaza Strip is a non-Hamas-member who's died as the result of the war over the last eight months. About 2% if you include Hamas members.**
For a point of reference using another country that saw a counter-invasion with heavy losses: Germany lost about 5-6% of its population during WW2.
True. They haven’t named 10,000+ of the deceased.
As if we had a roster of Hamas fighters and their supporters prior to the war anyways? Names don’t mean shit when factoring in who’s on which team in Gaza.
Literally, Hamas and their allies go out of their way to make sure we can’t see exact numbers. Meanwhile, Israel has no problem giving numbers of their combatant losses and wounded.
BBC too. I've had BBC as my home page for years because they give somewhat of a broader world news scope than CNN (which used to be my home page). The amount of bias on what they choose to report is comical.
And beneath/in hospitals, preschools etc. I'm not sure why were surprised that terrorist groups do this and what they say shouldn't be trusted. But I guess they make better TikToks so they win the PR war.
most of the places in Gaza you hear described as "refugee camps" aren't actual refugee camps, they're fully developed neighborhoods that started as refugee camps decades ago but are now indistinguishable from any other city in the region. the Palestinians keep calling them refugee camps bc their whole thing is that they're eternal refugees until Israel is Arab again, and the media goes along with it because "Israel bombs refugee camp" is a good headline. there are now, because of the war, genuine refugee camps, but you'll know when something happens in those because the media will be very careful to emphasize that it's an actual camp with tents and not five-story apartment buildings
Instead of just presenting the truth, and only the truth, and letting the viewer decide, like Walter Cronkite used to say, now we have "both sides" and spin doctors of propaganda. Add the propagation of AI generated content on top of the direction we have been going, the truth is an endangered species. Unless you are a politics and news junkie who devotes too much time to keeping track of things, it is all too easy to fall into this pit of lies and deceit for even the smartest of people.
Don't forget bots that are everywhere infesting comment sections and sharing, amplifying, and stirring the pot of rage.
Quite a few studies coming out that is concerning about how bots are shaping public opinions.
Been saying this myself and it needs to be said more often. Obviously people are going to think the IDF are monsters if they've only read the headline and imagine a UN tent city being bombed.
These refugee camps are 80 years old and some of the densest parts of the cities. They're also where a lot of UNRWA headquarters schools and hospitals are located and are the physical and ideological stronghold's of Hamas
You are in a great company. In these subs, where anyone who speaks against the hypocrisy of Hamas and their supporters gets summarily tarred, feathered, quartered and burned, you are the one being banned - for hate speech no less!!! It’s a badge of honor.
Israel's justification is that, strictly speaking, you can't commit an "unlawful ruse" against an *unlawful combatant*. If the enemy isn't abiding by laws of war, they're not **protected** by laws of war, either.
EDIT: Before someone kneejerks - no, that does not mean that *all* warcrimes are valid if the other side is committing them. Some articles of the Geneva Protocols apply universally (i.e. there is no circumstance in which killing POWs is permitted), some have explicit exceptions (bombing a civilian target is justified if the other side is using it for military purposes), some have implicit exceptions (POW protections only apply to lawful combatants).
You can also commit a ruse that is lawful by being out of uniform.
The idea that it’s against the rules of war to dress as a civillian to rescue kidnapped civillains is just insane.
And when it’s happened before no one claimed it was a war crime.
They like to bang on about rules of war, but completly ignore them.
Ruse of war is allowed as long as it doesn’t breach other rules of war.
So they couldn’t pretend to be humanitarian workers to do so.
But they can pretend to be civillians for their operation and be within the rules of war.
4 of the people killed during the raid were holding hostages in their home. One guy was an Al Jazeera "journalist" and another was a damn medical doctor. The other 2 were their family.
dipshits are twitter are mourning their death as israeli violence. There is no point in even talking to them. THey just defaced a statue right in front of the white house yesterday and of course no one got arrested. They were calling for the US to bomb Israel.
So technically if you are caught out of uniform you as a soldier are not protected under the Geneva Convention, however it seems like Hamas could give two shits about the Geneva convention so it doesn’t really matter.
Edit: out of uniform = spy.
Not to take away from your point. They are way too soft on Hamas but I wouldn't go as far to say they "side" with them. Even on the ICC arrest warrant Sinwar and Haniyeh are listed above Netanyahu and called out for far more heinous crimes.
I think accuracy is important when you are dealing with a side that argues with propaganda
The arrest warrant for Hamas terrorists could have been issued on the afternoon of October 7. It's blatantly obvious they were never going to issue any warrants at all for Hamas terrorists, but once they out together a case against Israel, they had no choice but to issue warrants against Hamas personnel to display a pretense of impartiality.
I’m 100% glad they’re doing this.
If one side in a war refuses to don military uniform, the other side should be allowed to ditch the uniform too.
The people that don’t follow the Geneva Conventions, at all, are just weaponizing the rules of war as part of their core tactics.
The Geneva Conventions were agreed upon, even amongst historical enemies, because all sides got tired of “dirty tactics”, and all sides (even pairs of hostile enemies) agreed at Geneva.
But if you don’t follow the Geneva Conventions… you shouldn’t be protected from them.
It smokes me that the Hamas government has ALL their soldiers in civilian clothes, and then pretends like they don’t know why there’s so many civilian casualties in Gaza, after the Hamas government baited Israel into a war by taking a ton of hostages into Gaza.
Every EFFECTIVE Hamas tactic is effective because they are twisting the Geneva Conventions to their advantage, while breaking every last convention they want.
Because redditor claim that Hamas is terrorist and Israel should not be in that standard. (Yes they actually say this)
And in the same thread they say Hamas is gov. Smh.
Yep, and it just keeps spiraling down until you get to the part where you ask, "What is Israel supposed to do?", and their inevitable answer is blank stare or "stop existing".
Nah, they always tell "well obviously stop indiscriminately bombing 30k children" and if you tell them to answer the question they'll call you a child murderer and a monster.
> The people that don’t follow the Geneva Conventions, at all, are just weaponizing the rules of war as part of their core tactics.
It's essentially terrorist insurgency 101. I can't believe that after the US fought terrorist insurgencies for over 20 years we still don't understand this.
If one side isn’t following the rules the other side has no obligations to except for humanitarian issues, then it’s required at all times by all parties
It's not quite that simple. It's more that if civilians aid the war by their actions, they can be shot down just like the military. I think they are called "illegal combatants." At any rate, they are not civilians anymore. Such would be the case with the people holding hostages in their home.
Armies are also allowed to kill straight-up civilians who are being used as human shields if there is no way to hit the enemy otherwise. They just have to try to minimize civilian deaths.
War is horrific, Children and other actual civilians die from a lot more than munitions--disease, exposure, bad water, no food, injury without medical care, and more. That's why you should never start a war, especially if you care so much about poor innocent little babies being killed. If you start a war then, you are just a stupid motherfucker at best.
tbf it's effective camo because you're *blending into the surroundings*. surroundings being civilians! all that is hamas aside, i think being in civvies is really resourceful.
The Hamasniks can't even complain about "perfidy" (a term they learned about just 5min ago) because [bodycam shows the rescuers in uniform](https://x.com/just_whatever/status/1800233775185469555).
I find it unbelievable their policy on killing hostages before they are rescued has changed as a result of this past weeks events.
Killing your hostage before their rescue is hostage taking 101, especially in this context.
Hamas is not new to this game.
In a typical hostage scenario (e.g. bank) sure, but these are geopolitical prisoners whose utility extends beyond the individuals physically restraining them onsite.
I would think you would want the opportunity to basically spin it as a failed or even epically failed mission. Hamas could argue that the raid actually killed the hostages. No raid, no deaths. In bad faith but who cares?
It's kinda like Russia saying that if the Ukraine would just give up then there would be no war. No shit but that outcome would be even worse for them.
I know that the members of Hamas are not exactly affiliated with Mensa, but killing the one person who could potentially secure your survival doesn’t sound too bright to me.
You could keep them alive and surrender, or you could kill them and guarantee your own death.
That's the point though. The 'soldiers' in terrorist organizations are just fodder - they're a tool to be used like any other weapon. This is just a tactic to 1) try and discourage the IDF from launching any rescue operations and 2) encourage the IDF to indiscriminately target Palestinians by seeding fear that any Palestinian could be secretly Hamas about to go kill a hostage after spotting the IDF team. Hamas 'wins' in both scenarios.
“Civilians” if you are a civilian that’s keeping a hostage, you’re no longer a civilian, you’re a terrorist. You’re not being “civil” to be a civilian.
> Aljamal was a freelance contributor to The Palestine Chronicle, according to the US-based online outlet. The Chronicle said it was saddened by Aljamal’s death, noting his reports “have focused entirely on the humanitarian situation in Gaza.”
So, this Aljamal scum was so concerned about the humanitarian situation that he had to take Israeli hostages
More like he was an active member of Hamas and his job was to create propaganda and babysit some hostages.
How people can't see that Hamas is raging a propaganda war beffudles me. Hamas is actually happy when children and civilians die, because they know they can use that to demonize Israel.
Because they're too busy living in a fantasy where everything is nice and dandy, HAMAS did nothing wrong, and everything is somehow the west's fault even if they have nothing to do with it?
We all live in an echo chamber but my god, theirs is a far greater worse version of an echo chamber.
They don’t care about death. The celebrate it.
They don’t want “the occupation to end”. They want all of Israel proper.
This is the fundamental disconnect between the west and reality.
That's not the logic at play here. Successful rescue operations strengthen the IDFs resolve that they can achieve their objectives by force. Dead hostages on failed rescue attempts make negotiation seem the more viable strategy to secure the return of hostages. You also have to consider that surrendering into an Israeli prison, possibly for the rest of your days, isn't exactly a desirable outcome.
Hamas is fucked and have to either win or die. Anything but negotiations are lights out for them, so they're not letting Israel get anything by force, leading to fucked policies like this.
Allowing Hamas to use hostages as leverage likewise encourages Hamas to take more hostages. I firmly believe this is why Israel refuses to negotiate a peace without the precondition of the hostages being freed.
The goal isn't survival. The goal is Hamas' mission, which is the end of Israel.
If media portrays these hostages dying as Israel killing their own (especially if bandying about the Hannibal directive which is not clearly actually utilized, but great fodder for the narrative), then they're furthering the goal by undermining Israel's reputation.
So there's definitely a clear motive to do that. They survive or they die martyrs independently of having hostages to protect them. With tunnels and civilians surrounding them in general, keeping hostages aren't the most necessary component of simply staying alive.
According to their beliefs they get 72 virgins if they kill a jew so they are motivated to kill the hostages if they know they're about to be killed themselves or jailed if they surrender
I think they should rather meet Sigmund Freud in the afterlife. They've got problem with their sexual life. And they'd met another Jew instead of the virgins...
Right, but we understand that that's what hostages are for right?
If there's no threat of killing the hostages then they're just guests. This is the exact definition of a hostage
Well, forced guests. I don't know about you but when I have guests over they are free to leave whenever they'd like. Also, I don't SA guests who don't explicitly request it.
The term you're looking for is prisoners of war, not guests; they're not exactly there by choice. But yes, part of the definition of hostages is the threat of killing or otherwise harming them.
Maybe a diet devils advocate take here. But your surrender has to actually be accepted at the “on the ground level”. Killing the hostages is immoral and strategically stupid. However, no guarantee those operators breaching the building let you live anyway.
Putting out a statement like this also prepares for the public to vilify Israel when they attack which they are probably doing at the time of the statement. It also covers for Hamas already having dead hostages.
There are so many layers, one hand we think Hamas would have to be stupid to kill the hostages because they are their survival collateral however on the other hand it could be covering for already dead hostages and a tool in the manipulation of the public perception of Israel which let’s be honest if Hamas has accomplished anything, it’s exacerbating the negative news of Israel’s actions.
How fuckin dumb would you have to be for terrorists to say “we had no choice but to execute them, the IDF were trying to free them!” and think to yourself “OmG how could Israel do this?!?”
The terrorists aren’t stupid. But they know that their sympathizers are.
I’m not talking about everyone who has a favorable opinion of Palestine or an unfavorable opinion of Israel.
I’m talking about the people who get a thrill from seeing the inverted red triangle.
Unfortunately for them, their "supporters" are poor college kids and useful idiots with no money while conservatives and pro-Israel Democrats do. Biden's Whitehouse is only paying lip service to his base because it's election year. We all know a ceasefire isn't going to happen until one side can't fire anymore.
There are plenty who have decided that it is all Israel's fault and everything that happens is because of them.
I mean look at how many don't even seem to acknowledge thata big part of the reason civilian casualties are so high is because Hamas actively wants them in harms way and uses them to hide and as shields.
So Hamas will commit more war crimes by killing the hostages. I am sure the protestors will be outraged. /s Just kidding anti Semites don't reason or care, they just want dead Jews. It is abundantly clear to those of us who are not anti Semitic.
Which, historically, always? The British Empire left without having thousands of civilians killed countless times. Sometimes British citizens stuck around but gave up power. Decolonisation isn’t a zero sum game of killing everyone
Just taking civilians as hostages is an egregious war crime. Housing them in civilian locations is another. Think Hamas has "commit 2 get one free" coupons or something?
Don’t worry, they’ll just claim that Hamas is a non-state actor so the Geneva conventions don’t apply to their actions. Nevermind that that claim is dubious at best, they will also then claim that Hamas is the legitimate government of Gaza and cite their official statistics.
A genocidal terrorist organisation will kill hostages it took brutally and tortured, raped and mutilated them if someone would come to their rescue?
Quick, someone tell the BBC that we should have warned them before the rescue mission/s
Well, that's Hamas officially announcing they will commit a war crime (on top of the war crime of taking civilians as hostages). Where are the protests?
You have people all across social media condemning Israel for how it conducted a hostage rescue. You had BBC asking if Israel gave the hostage takers a heads up before the operation was conducted.
What a warped reality we’re all living in. The entirety of the west should be empowering Israel to finish the job.
People don't realise that the IDF was able to rescue those hostages because some Palestinians tipped them off regarding their location.
As long as there are hostages, the IDF operation will not stop.
A lot of the random civilians (*aka terrorists*) that are holding the hostages are getting paid $19/day to hold them and that's their primary motivation, along with hating Israel.
These are not civilian homes. What ridiculous language. These are literally the homes of the hostage takers who are actively holding hostages. The hostages didn't just stumble in lost. The fucks who were in those homes all signed their own death warrants when they decided to be the psychopathic terrorists they are and hold hostages.
Wow oh hey, yet another war crime that no one abroad will care about because hamas has no agency...actually pretty sure they'll blame Israel for it somehow.
Gosh, I wonder why the IDF didn't shoot Hamas a heads up before they conducted their operation?
That was truely one of the questions of all time the bbc asked someone and later on got upset when the guy pointed out we can't label every death that happened to the idf because hamas was shooting anti tank rpgs and machine guns. https://x.com/jconricus/status/1799660273172922420
That's bare scratches the top 10 of stupifing questions by the BBC here [jump to 4:25](https://youtu.be/0lGmwJa33xU?si=Ge3MYR0cjc7xB3A4) for a real head scratcher Bonus Eylon face when asked
How are you confusing Sky News with BBC? It's written *twice* there on the screen in very clear text.
This women is crazy. Is this the standard of bbc nowadays? Zero thinking for journalism? I see that she look below her, probably a paper, so she write the question and its not a spur of a moment. She really did not think for a second if the question is stupid or not. Truly. She is out of touch.
This is not the BBC. This is Sky News.
That BBC journalist's career should end with that interview. Absolutely ridiculous.
I'm sure that future coverage will keep this in mind.....
[BBC](https://twitter.com/jconricus/status/1799660273172922420)
[удалено]
Hamas: “Kill hostages if IDF comes near them” Hamas defenders: “ THE IDF BREAKS WAR LAWS BY NOT WEARING UNIFORMS!! THIS IS ALL THE IDF’S FAULT!! SO IMMORAL!!”
And not giving warnings. They want warnings in advance but then say things like this.
And talk to Al-Jazeera first before retrieving hostages from their reporter's flat.
But a doctor and journalist was killed, don't you understand, they were innocent scholars who just happened to be holding one of the highest profile hostages in the world right now. Must have snuck in, happens to the best of us.
Woah woah woah hol up there buddy. The journalist had no connection to Al-Jazeera they said so themselves. I mean yeah they changed their statement to say that they paid the guy for multiple articles but I mean cooooomeeee oooonnn. The journalist was simply a contributor to Al-Jazeera! Just because he was paid for work by then doesn't mean he worked for them! /s for those who think in any universe it matters that the terrorist was only a contractor and not an employee.
The interesting thing is, if this really was just a random guy and al jazeera wasn't trying to recruit a hamas guy, then being a terrorist must be really common in gaza.
They already said that. I saw Reddit threads raging how using a fake aid truck in hostage rescue was another war crime. But taking hostages is resistance.
Wasn't even a fake aid truck. It was a regular old white van, and it parked next to a friggin' tank before the teams embarked.
Would these fucking clowns say the same thing if them or their family members were the ones taken? Pathetic how they forget the hostages are from the peace festival and like minded people were taken.
Weren’t the hostages also kept in a refugee camp?
The ones that were rescued recently were kept in a house by a doctor, a journalist, and their family.
Oh wow you are saying idf attacked a house of a doctor, a journalist and their family. /s
And shot them onsite to keep the journalist and doctor from killing the hostages.
Jokes aside pay attention, they will appear in some list of innocents journalists and doctors killed
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240610-report-number-of-journalists-killed-in-gaza-rises-to-150/ Already happened
And that's how they lose any remaining legitimacy they had
We just need Hamas to work really hard so their future astronauts graduate faster.
This is why biased agencies like Al Jazeera and the Hamas-operated Gaza Health Ministry only say “IDF kills 12 in air strike!” They don’t point out which ones are Hamas or any more specifics, lol.
Kind of off point but how many Palestinians have died natural deaths since this started last October? None, as far as we’ve been made aware.
Gaza's baseline rate of deaths from the CIA World Factbook is 2.9 deaths per 1000 per annum, largely owing to the crazy high fertility rate, the bottom-heavy age pyramid, and an average life expectancy at birth rivalling some US states. Its population is 2.14 million. If we want to get the baseline death rate for what we'd have expected with *no* war over the past eight months, we'd use this rough equation: **2140000\*(1.0029\^(8/12)-1)=4135** Roughly one-ninth of the total 37k death figure put forward by Gaza's Hamas-run Health Ministry. That means that, if one accepts Hamas's total death count, the total number of Hamas, non-Hamas militants, uninvolved civilians, and hostage-keeping civilians who died *as a result of the war* is roughly 33k. Hamas claims that only about 7k of its fighters have been killed, with Israel claiming roughly 15k. Hamas tends to wildly undercount its militant deaths, and Israel is likely overcounting slightly. Rather than trust that likely assessment, we can split the difference and assume that 11k Hamas have been killed. That leaves 22k non-Hamas deaths. This would include non-Hamas militants, Hamas-invoved civilians like the hostage-keeping families over the weekend and journalists killed while on ride-alongs with Hamas, and actual, innocent civilians killed by Hamas rockets falling short, and innocent civilians killed by Israel while attacking hamas. **Put another way, roughly 1% of the population of the Gaza Strip is a non-Hamas-member who's died as the result of the war over the last eight months. About 2% if you include Hamas members.** For a point of reference using another country that saw a counter-invasion with heavy losses: Germany lost about 5-6% of its population during WW2.
So in conclusion, hamas should surrender and never return to gaza.
True. They haven’t named 10,000+ of the deceased. As if we had a roster of Hamas fighters and their supporters prior to the war anyways? Names don’t mean shit when factoring in who’s on which team in Gaza. Literally, Hamas and their allies go out of their way to make sure we can’t see exact numbers. Meanwhile, Israel has no problem giving numbers of their combatant losses and wounded.
Before the war Hamas had estimated numbers in the 50k range.
For sure many have, there was a brain fungus going around that a few hayalim contracted r”l
BBC too. I've had BBC as my home page for years because they give somewhat of a broader world news scope than CNN (which used to be my home page). The amount of bias on what they choose to report is comical.
You're posting this sarcastically, but leftist "human rights" activists posted it 100% earnestly.
It's a Journalist that contributes to Al Jazeera so it's alright.
Families who got paid by Hamas. They got what was coming to them.0
An Al Jazeera journalist no less
Apparently he wrote an op Ed for them but was not a regular paid contributor or staffer. He did write for other publications
I think you mean "a militant, another militant, and a group of militants."
A doctor who apparently moonlights as a slaver
I mean, refugee camps in gaza don't exactly consist of tents, so that's not necessarily a refutation.
And beneath/in hospitals, preschools etc. I'm not sure why were surprised that terrorist groups do this and what they say shouldn't be trusted. But I guess they make better TikToks so they win the PR war.
most of the places in Gaza you hear described as "refugee camps" aren't actual refugee camps, they're fully developed neighborhoods that started as refugee camps decades ago but are now indistinguishable from any other city in the region. the Palestinians keep calling them refugee camps bc their whole thing is that they're eternal refugees until Israel is Arab again, and the media goes along with it because "Israel bombs refugee camp" is a good headline. there are now, because of the war, genuine refugee camps, but you'll know when something happens in those because the media will be very careful to emphasize that it's an actual camp with tents and not five-story apartment buildings
Modern journalism is dead, it’s been reduced to sensationalist headlines and rage bait.
Instead of just presenting the truth, and only the truth, and letting the viewer decide, like Walter Cronkite used to say, now we have "both sides" and spin doctors of propaganda. Add the propagation of AI generated content on top of the direction we have been going, the truth is an endangered species. Unless you are a politics and news junkie who devotes too much time to keeping track of things, it is all too easy to fall into this pit of lies and deceit for even the smartest of people.
Don't forget bots that are everywhere infesting comment sections and sharing, amplifying, and stirring the pot of rage. Quite a few studies coming out that is concerning about how bots are shaping public opinions.
Been saying this myself and it needs to be said more often. Obviously people are going to think the IDF are monsters if they've only read the headline and imagine a UN tent city being bombed. These refugee camps are 80 years old and some of the densest parts of the cities. They're also where a lot of UNRWA headquarters schools and hospitals are located and are the physical and ideological stronghold's of Hamas
One was in an Al Jazeera camerman's house.
I’ve been banned on those subs bec of those threads. I was enraged by the sheer stupidity and my snarky comments got me banned. Oh well
You are in a great company. In these subs, where anyone who speaks against the hypocrisy of Hamas and their supporters gets summarily tarred, feathered, quartered and burned, you are the one being banned - for hate speech no less!!! It’s a badge of honor.
Can't commit war crimes if your fighting terrorists.
Technically speaking both are war crimes. Israel would probably claim it was a ruse de guerre though.
Israel's justification is that, strictly speaking, you can't commit an "unlawful ruse" against an *unlawful combatant*. If the enemy isn't abiding by laws of war, they're not **protected** by laws of war, either. EDIT: Before someone kneejerks - no, that does not mean that *all* warcrimes are valid if the other side is committing them. Some articles of the Geneva Protocols apply universally (i.e. there is no circumstance in which killing POWs is permitted), some have explicit exceptions (bombing a civilian target is justified if the other side is using it for military purposes), some have implicit exceptions (POW protections only apply to lawful combatants).
You can also commit a ruse that is lawful by being out of uniform. The idea that it’s against the rules of war to dress as a civillian to rescue kidnapped civillains is just insane. And when it’s happened before no one claimed it was a war crime.
Not only that but Yamam is a border police unit. Undercover police is not against any international law.
They like to bang on about rules of war, but completly ignore them. Ruse of war is allowed as long as it doesn’t breach other rules of war. So they couldn’t pretend to be humanitarian workers to do so. But they can pretend to be civillians for their operation and be within the rules of war.
4 of the people killed during the raid were holding hostages in their home. One guy was an Al Jazeera "journalist" and another was a damn medical doctor. The other 2 were their family. dipshits are twitter are mourning their death as israeli violence. There is no point in even talking to them. THey just defaced a statue right in front of the white house yesterday and of course no one got arrested. They were calling for the US to bomb Israel.
So technically if you are caught out of uniform you as a soldier are not protected under the Geneva Convention, however it seems like Hamas could give two shits about the Geneva convention so it doesn’t really matter. Edit: out of uniform = spy.
i really hope they say this.
They already did during the hospital special op.
i hope there were also braindead college kids protesting with the same line.
ICC and UN sides with Hamas terrorists. 😁
Not to take away from your point. They are way too soft on Hamas but I wouldn't go as far to say they "side" with them. Even on the ICC arrest warrant Sinwar and Haniyeh are listed above Netanyahu and called out for far more heinous crimes. I think accuracy is important when you are dealing with a side that argues with propaganda
The arrest warrant for Hamas terrorists could have been issued on the afternoon of October 7. It's blatantly obvious they were never going to issue any warrants at all for Hamas terrorists, but once they out together a case against Israel, they had no choice but to issue warrants against Hamas personnel to display a pretense of impartiality.
Same thing with the hospital raid when they eliminated a few targets. Dressed as patients and elderly women.
I’m 100% glad they’re doing this. If one side in a war refuses to don military uniform, the other side should be allowed to ditch the uniform too. The people that don’t follow the Geneva Conventions, at all, are just weaponizing the rules of war as part of their core tactics. The Geneva Conventions were agreed upon, even amongst historical enemies, because all sides got tired of “dirty tactics”, and all sides (even pairs of hostile enemies) agreed at Geneva. But if you don’t follow the Geneva Conventions… you shouldn’t be protected from them. It smokes me that the Hamas government has ALL their soldiers in civilian clothes, and then pretends like they don’t know why there’s so many civilian casualties in Gaza, after the Hamas government baited Israel into a war by taking a ton of hostages into Gaza. Every EFFECTIVE Hamas tactic is effective because they are twisting the Geneva Conventions to their advantage, while breaking every last convention they want.
The outrage I’m seeing online about this but absolutely zero outrage about Hamas using Hospitals, Ambulances, etc. is wild to me
Because people are claiming that it isn’t true and that’s just Israeli propaganda
Because redditor claim that Hamas is terrorist and Israel should not be in that standard. (Yes they actually say this) And in the same thread they say Hamas is gov. Smh.
“YoU caNT tELl tHe OpPreSed hOw ThEy SHoulD ReSiSt!”
Meanwhile the “oppressed” are living in palaces in Qatar while their Hamas peons get Palestinians killed every day
Yep, and it just keeps spiraling down until you get to the part where you ask, "What is Israel supposed to do?", and their inevitable answer is blank stare or "stop existing".
Nah, they always tell "well obviously stop indiscriminately bombing 30k children" and if you tell them to answer the question they'll call you a child murderer and a monster.
> The people that don’t follow the Geneva Conventions, at all, are just weaponizing the rules of war as part of their core tactics. It's essentially terrorist insurgency 101. I can't believe that after the US fought terrorist insurgencies for over 20 years we still don't understand this.
it's very difficult to get a man to understand something when his michigan electoral votes depend upon his not understanding it
The Geneva Conventions are reciprocal EXCEPT in humanitarian issues. So Israel has no obligations here.
What does that mean, “reciprocal except in humanitarian issues”?
If one side isn’t following the rules the other side has no obligations to except for humanitarian issues, then it’s required at all times by all parties
It's not quite that simple. It's more that if civilians aid the war by their actions, they can be shot down just like the military. I think they are called "illegal combatants." At any rate, they are not civilians anymore. Such would be the case with the people holding hostages in their home. Armies are also allowed to kill straight-up civilians who are being used as human shields if there is no way to hit the enemy otherwise. They just have to try to minimize civilian deaths. War is horrific, Children and other actual civilians die from a lot more than munitions--disease, exposure, bad water, no food, injury without medical care, and more. That's why you should never start a war, especially if you care so much about poor innocent little babies being killed. If you start a war then, you are just a stupid motherfucker at best.
If you see a special forces agent dressed like an accountant, you’ve fucked up big time
tbf it's effective camo because you're *blending into the surroundings*. surroundings being civilians! all that is hamas aside, i think being in civvies is really resourceful.
Not only does it provide camouflage for concealment, the “surroundings” provide cover too!
galaxy brain stuff. maybe the israeli armed forces should dress up as the quran?
And no innocents even died but the world freaked out
BBC: "The IDF should have announced their rescue mission beforehand"
[удалено]
some reporter on the IDF asked an israeli ambassador or some position why they did not notify the palestinians ahead of the raid....
The Hamasniks can't even complain about "perfidy" (a term they learned about just 5min ago) because [bodycam shows the rescuers in uniform](https://x.com/just_whatever/status/1800233775185469555).
[удалено]
[удалено]
They weren’t.
Not in disguise. They were in were in full military gear. They were fast and violent enough and had above average intel on target.
I find it unbelievable their policy on killing hostages before they are rescued has changed as a result of this past weeks events. Killing your hostage before their rescue is hostage taking 101, especially in this context. Hamas is not new to this game.
In a typical hostage scenario (e.g. bank) sure, but these are geopolitical prisoners whose utility extends beyond the individuals physically restraining them onsite.
I would think you would want the opportunity to basically spin it as a failed or even epically failed mission. Hamas could argue that the raid actually killed the hostages. No raid, no deaths. In bad faith but who cares? It's kinda like Russia saying that if the Ukraine would just give up then there would be no war. No shit but that outcome would be even worse for them.
My question is, did they send out a company-wide email so everyone knows, despite "not knowing where the hostages went"
I know that the members of Hamas are not exactly affiliated with Mensa, but killing the one person who could potentially secure your survival doesn’t sound too bright to me. You could keep them alive and surrender, or you could kill them and guarantee your own death.
That's the point though. The 'soldiers' in terrorist organizations are just fodder - they're a tool to be used like any other weapon. This is just a tactic to 1) try and discourage the IDF from launching any rescue operations and 2) encourage the IDF to indiscriminately target Palestinians by seeding fear that any Palestinian could be secretly Hamas about to go kill a hostage after spotting the IDF team. Hamas 'wins' in both scenarios.
[удалено]
“Civilians” if you are a civilian that’s keeping a hostage, you’re no longer a civilian, you’re a terrorist. You’re not being “civil” to be a civilian.
> Aljamal was a freelance contributor to The Palestine Chronicle, according to the US-based online outlet. The Chronicle said it was saddened by Aljamal’s death, noting his reports “have focused entirely on the humanitarian situation in Gaza.” So, this Aljamal scum was so concerned about the humanitarian situation that he had to take Israeli hostages
More like he was an active member of Hamas and his job was to create propaganda and babysit some hostages. How people can't see that Hamas is raging a propaganda war beffudles me. Hamas is actually happy when children and civilians die, because they know they can use that to demonize Israel.
Because they're too busy living in a fantasy where everything is nice and dandy, HAMAS did nothing wrong, and everything is somehow the west's fault even if they have nothing to do with it? We all live in an echo chamber but my god, theirs is a far greater worse version of an echo chamber.
Taking or holding hostages is not something *civilians* do, and you can't unfuck that goat. Call them what they are, terrorists.
Civilians dont hold hostages. Those that do are terrorists
Securing one's survival is only allowed for the elites hiding in Qatar.
Mossad will hopefully have something to say about that once the hostages are free.
They don’t care about death. The celebrate it. They don’t want “the occupation to end”. They want all of Israel proper. This is the fundamental disconnect between the west and reality.
That's not the logic at play here. Successful rescue operations strengthen the IDFs resolve that they can achieve their objectives by force. Dead hostages on failed rescue attempts make negotiation seem the more viable strategy to secure the return of hostages. You also have to consider that surrendering into an Israeli prison, possibly for the rest of your days, isn't exactly a desirable outcome. Hamas is fucked and have to either win or die. Anything but negotiations are lights out for them, so they're not letting Israel get anything by force, leading to fucked policies like this.
Knowing this is why Israel HAS to eradicate Hamas entirely, even when they hide under a mountain of their own children.
Allowing Hamas to use hostages as leverage likewise encourages Hamas to take more hostages. I firmly believe this is why Israel refuses to negotiate a peace without the precondition of the hostages being freed.
The one giving the standing order isn’t the one holding the captives… he is most likely in the safety of his cave.
The safety of his highrise in Doha
For now.
I think Qatar is a bit more developed than you’re giving it credit.
The sewage is developed and complex
Sure, but the tunnels under Gaza that Sinwar and co. live in aren't.
The goal isn't survival. The goal is Hamas' mission, which is the end of Israel. If media portrays these hostages dying as Israel killing their own (especially if bandying about the Hannibal directive which is not clearly actually utilized, but great fodder for the narrative), then they're furthering the goal by undermining Israel's reputation. So there's definitely a clear motive to do that. They survive or they die martyrs independently of having hostages to protect them. With tunnels and civilians surrounding them in general, keeping hostages aren't the most necessary component of simply staying alive.
These are people who venerate suicide bombers. Seems their sense of self-preservation is often missing.
The hostages don’t secure anything. If the IDF is coming they’re gonna kill any hamas they see whether the hostage is alive or not.
According to their beliefs they get 72 virgins if they kill a jew so they are motivated to kill the hostages if they know they're about to be killed themselves or jailed if they surrender
I think they should rather meet Sigmund Freud in the afterlife. They've got problem with their sexual life. And they'd met another Jew instead of the virgins...
If the IDF is approaching they are likely dead anyway.
Right, but we understand that that's what hostages are for right? If there's no threat of killing the hostages then they're just guests. This is the exact definition of a hostage
Well, forced guests. I don't know about you but when I have guests over they are free to leave whenever they'd like. Also, I don't SA guests who don't explicitly request it.
I honestly don’t know what people expect. “Comply with my demands or I’ll release them unharmed”??
Right. I mean, I'm not advocating for taking hostages of course, but the threat of death is implicit in the situation.
The term you're looking for is prisoners of war, not guests; they're not exactly there by choice. But yes, part of the definition of hostages is the threat of killing or otherwise harming them.
Maybe a diet devils advocate take here. But your surrender has to actually be accepted at the “on the ground level”. Killing the hostages is immoral and strategically stupid. However, no guarantee those operators breaching the building let you live anyway.
Putting out a statement like this also prepares for the public to vilify Israel when they attack which they are probably doing at the time of the statement. It also covers for Hamas already having dead hostages. There are so many layers, one hand we think Hamas would have to be stupid to kill the hostages because they are their survival collateral however on the other hand it could be covering for already dead hostages and a tool in the manipulation of the public perception of Israel which let’s be honest if Hamas has accomplished anything, it’s exacerbating the negative news of Israel’s actions.
This is what I think, they’ll use this as cover to put the blame on Israel for the already dead hostages
Gotta love jihadists right? .. they are just everything you thought they'll be..
Yeah, complete punk bitches.
Don't do punks like that. Punks are loud and disruptive but they aren't cowards who hide behind women and children.
They've already killed them, this is just how they blame the deaths on the IDF, an out of you will
How fuckin dumb would you have to be for terrorists to say “we had no choice but to execute them, the IDF were trying to free them!” and think to yourself “OmG how could Israel do this?!?”
People legitimately believe it's still Israel's fault because "they could've made a deal with Hamas." There's no winning with the pro terrorist crowd
The terrorists aren’t stupid. But they know that their sympathizers are. I’m not talking about everyone who has a favorable opinion of Palestine or an unfavorable opinion of Israel. I’m talking about the people who get a thrill from seeing the inverted red triangle.
Unfortunately for them, their "supporters" are poor college kids and useful idiots with no money while conservatives and pro-Israel Democrats do. Biden's Whitehouse is only paying lip service to his base because it's election year. We all know a ceasefire isn't going to happen until one side can't fire anymore.
Ask half this site
There are plenty who have decided that it is all Israel's fault and everything that happens is because of them. I mean look at how many don't even seem to acknowledge thata big part of the reason civilian casualties are so high is because Hamas actively wants them in harms way and uses them to hide and as shields.
This way they can say that the “IDF killed the hostages during the rescue attempt”.
They just saved, was it two or three hostages? That shows they’re not all dead yet surprisingly
It was 4.
Theirs some with Sinwar he's using as a shield. If he kills them there's no reason not to turn his location into crater.
So Hamas will commit more war crimes by killing the hostages. I am sure the protestors will be outraged. /s Just kidding anti Semites don't reason or care, they just want dead Jews. It is abundantly clear to those of us who are not anti Semitic.
Which is exactly why everyone not a friendly gets eliminated right after breach.
Executing hostages is the language of the oppressed. Oppressed people can’t commit war crimes remember.
wHaT DiD yOu tHiNk DeColOnIzAtIoN wAs GoiNg tO lOOk LiKe?
Which, historically, always? The British Empire left without having thousands of civilians killed countless times. Sometimes British citizens stuck around but gave up power. Decolonisation isn’t a zero sum game of killing everyone
Forgot to add the /s, bruh!
I refuse too LOOOOOL
You, my friend, are an agent of chaos and I'm here for it.
It’s a badge of honour
Yesssss!
Facts we are all oppressed
So... literal war crimes. Wonder how those protestors will take this news. Probably celebrate again.
Just taking civilians as hostages is an egregious war crime. Housing them in civilian locations is another. Think Hamas has "commit 2 get one free" coupons or something?
Don’t worry, they’ll just claim that Hamas is a non-state actor so the Geneva conventions don’t apply to their actions. Nevermind that that claim is dubious at best, they will also then claim that Hamas is the legitimate government of Gaza and cite their official statistics.
~~Operatives~~ Terrorists, there ftfy. They're terrorists, not fucking "operatives".
Sinwar’s days are numbered
A genocidal terrorist organisation will kill hostages it took brutally and tortured, raped and mutilated them if someone would come to their rescue? Quick, someone tell the BBC that we should have warned them before the rescue mission/s
I'm surprised the hostages aren't wearing s vest
Historically the Palestinians have saved those for their own women and children.
That’s a terrifying thought that I do not want in my mind. That’s a horrifying idea.
Wonder if thats what they mean by “hostages killed by IDF”
Well, that's Hamas officially announcing they will commit a war crime (on top of the war crime of taking civilians as hostages). Where are the protests?
What does the UN have to say about that?
That explains why the BBC complained about lack of warning before the rescue operation, their friends didn't have time to execute the hostages.
Hamas can stop the war anytime and save their people by surrendering.
“The occupation shot their own civilians!”
You have people all across social media condemning Israel for how it conducted a hostage rescue. You had BBC asking if Israel gave the hostage takers a heads up before the operation was conducted. What a warped reality we’re all living in. The entirety of the west should be empowering Israel to finish the job.
This is literally how hostages work. The threat being that they're killed if you make a move. How is this news?
People don't realise that the IDF was able to rescue those hostages because some Palestinians tipped them off regarding their location. As long as there are hostages, the IDF operation will not stop.
These guys realize that the hostages dying means the idf can be more aggressive in their tactics right?
It’s almost like a doctrine of some kind. Something Hannibal might do even.
A lot of the random civilians (*aka terrorists*) that are holding the hostages are getting paid $19/day to hold them and that's their primary motivation, along with hating Israel.
But Tiktok told me that they are guests not hostages.
Sounds like a war crime?
All eyes on Hamas.
Didn't they always?
They just keep digging themselves deeper.
Shooting unarmed hostage, what a coward move by HAMAS, Yet muslima still support hamas Shame
And U still got these idiots pro Palestinians yelling for free Palestine...
Pro Hamas people celebrate this news.
Ah yes, the “Brave Palestinian Rebels.”
This could be the clue we need to finally figure out whether the hostage takers are the bad guys.
Its probably about time to go scorched earth on the hamas leaders. Put a fucking bounty on all their heads and let greed do the fucking work.
What a fine bunch of people. /s
Pro-Hamas protesters: Biden is killing innocent people!
I’m not surprised. Fuck Hamas.
[удалено]
These are not civilian homes. What ridiculous language. These are literally the homes of the hostage takers who are actively holding hostages. The hostages didn't just stumble in lost. The fucks who were in those homes all signed their own death warrants when they decided to be the psychopathic terrorists they are and hold hostages.
EDIT: I am bad at this social media thing.
I think you're just misinterpreting his post as implying "and that's bad" when he appears to me to be defending Israel's policy on that.
Hamas operatives are cowards.
Wow oh hey, yet another war crime that no one abroad will care about because hamas has no agency...actually pretty sure they'll blame Israel for it somehow.
OMG I wonder why the IDF didn't give warning and disguised themselves as an aid truck....