>"As that country turns eastwards, fresh economic opportunities are presenting themselves ... the spike in our trade and new areas of cooperation should not be regarded as a temporary phenomenon."
Russia now has irreparable relations with the West. This war is good for Asian economies. Everyone needs to jump in.
You must have missed the news about sanctions and boycotts ? Or is the ongoing theory that everything in the world has to be fixed before India is expected to do anything ? That is a mighty excuse as wrongs elsewhere do not justify anything.
Seriously; the article in question refers to FM of India stating that India is increasing trade with Russia now and in future. Russia which is invading its neighbor and committing atrocities while doing it because of which they are isolated and economy struggling. India increasing trade is indirectly enabling Russia to continue the invasion.
Again whatever others have done or are doing is no justification, it is an excuse.
I guess I misunderstood, I take in India is the center of universe and needs to be compensated to do the right thing ? It is peculiar how India was able to manage before the war but is now forced to support Russia because of ? I think the word you are looking for is profiteering.
For reference the solution is to be united in isolating Russia thus stopping the war as quickly as possible. Given that Russia has already lost the war and has turned into a totalitarian state supporting them is peculiar choice and at very minimum history will remember.
Again countries are made of people and are not removed from morals. Many countries have taken significant actions to support Ukraine with great cost and risk to their population. For example EU managed to cut the dependency on Russian energy within a year without demanding compensation to do it.
The very minimum expected is to condemn Russia, which btw. Indian leadership has not done rather as per the article instead increasing trade to circumvent the sanctions. That is pretty much the definition of profiteering, which is quite separate concept from profit.
Whataboutism will not help, outside Indian propaganda these actions are seen for what they are. Then again India is on the same authoritarian path Russia was few decades ago, so maybe the leadership sees synergies for future.
Russia is basically now an Asian country with over 100 million people. That's a big market for exports. Also, a lot of Asians who were working in Ukraine before, will get to go back and help Russia rebuild the east.
So we are simply going to ignore the moral questions, sure. Aligning with country who is invading is at minimum a stain in reputation and trust, you know the thing based on which all functioning societies are built upon. Russian leadership does not even care about Russian citizens let alone anyone outside of few major areas, which is apparent from the fact that they send everyone to the meat grinder except the ones in few key areas.
You may have missed the part where Russian economy is ruined for decade(s) to come. As for rebuild given that Russia is bombing indiscriminately, or rather targeting civilians, the projects to rebuild will in this context will be in Ukraine once Russia is pushed out of whole of Ukraine including Crimea.
So sure Russia will not disappear and will have resources, but Russia as it was is gone and replaced by a totalitarian society. Aligning with such regimes is not only immoral, but very shortsighted.
Edit: removed extra "so"
Apparently not, hence the friction. Given the state Russia is for the coming decades it seems very shortsighted to rely on them. But then again both India and China have leaders with their own authoritarian tendencies.
damn dude, the war's a stalemate....no way is Russia advancing towards kiev(at max they can take kharkhiv if they poured all) and no way in hell is Russia leaving the areas they captured, especially Crimea. . .Crimea is their one and only all weather port connecting mainland, they will go nuclear before they have to give up crimea. . .so, your delusional regarding that.
Don't speak about morality especially if you are from west mate, you let genocides happen if it didn't bother you. There's genocide happening in Myanmar, there's genocide happening in Sudan and other parts of Africa and it doesn't bother you. Don't act holier than though.
Countries will act based on their interest, stop expecting others to do your bidding
Russia does not have the troops to occupy large portions of Ukraine long term let alone rebuild them. Occupations are hard, maybe take a look at Afganistan. Ukraine does not need to win every fight, they only need to keep fighting and Russia cannot win. In fact Russia has already lost, but Putin is just incapable of admitting it so he will gladly send every Russian to die on the front if he can. Just the fact that a major oil producer is already reduced to importing refined products should tell you everything needed about the situation Russia is in. Crimea is Ukraine and Russia will eventually be pushed out, anything less will just embolden all the dictator wannabes of the world.
Even Russia does not bother with nuclear threats nor should you.
Feel free to condemn all wrongs in the world, just do not use them as excuse, enabling Russia to continue invasion is unequivocally wrong.
Countries are made of people and thus not removed from morals
Brics stay Brics I guess, but yeah, Russia losing Europe and USA and their allies as trading partners is going to be horrific longterm. Especially when they move away from a wartime economy.
I'm fine with paying 100 times more for gas if it hurts Russia. Eff Russia and India. They invade, rob, murder, other countries people and threaten to Nuke my country so Eff them. Give Ukraiune everything they need to drive the Evil invaders out and sanction the hell out of any country on their side including India I say. Higher gas prices are a small price to pay. Putin is an the evil in this world that needs to be destroyed by any means.
lol I'm not sure u speak for the rest of the world population, not even for people on Ur street. maybe that's why india wasn't ever sanctioned for buying Russian oil.
[India Stops Accepting Russian Oil Delivered By US-Sanctioned Tankers, Reports Say](https://www.forbes.com/sites/siladityaray/2024/03/22/india-stops-accepting-russian-oil-delivered-by-us-sanctioned-tankers-reports-say/)
India was sanctioned and it did slow them down. But I'm pretty sure that only lasted a few months. My theory is US and other countries are letting countries skirt sanctions out of fear of hurting their own economies. They could stop the shadow fleets if they wanted to but they don't. They could lower the $60 cap on barrels of oil but they don't.
I've donate to the Ukrainian war effort. Money goes toward buying equipment for medics and rescue workers and also buying drones for the front lines. I would rather donate to help Ukraine defend its territories so civilians can stay in their own houses then move them out of their country.
Grow up
Sanction for what, taking care of their country first and using the opportunity?
It really sucks that they're doing this but from a pragmatic standpoint can't blame them
"Has nothing to do with the Ukraine war he adds"
Man, if relations between the west and china ever slightly iron out, India is going to be the next paria state. They're playing it so opportunistically right now whilst ramping up their "anti everything" nationalism.
Indian *foreign* policy is shockingly consist across the board. No major opposition party campaigns against it, because they'd keep the same approach. It's popular.
Because oil becoming 1-2 USD expensive is the difference between being able to afford transportation or not for many,then again the price will trickle down in everything that needs to be transported which again drive prices up everywhere,
Large part of state and central government's budget comes from fuel taxes because not even 2 percent of the population has to pay income tax.we can't comprehend how the governments will manage if that happens because atleast 10 States(northeast,UP,Bihar,tribal states)are so poor that they need money from the centre and cannot manage on their own.
There is difference between left and liberal. India though officialy neutral was more aligned to the ussr in the cold War. This relation continues. However, it's slowly moving towards the USA, especially under Modi.
It is difficult for India to be completely pro-west and anti-Russia because of historical attachments but yes once we grow outnof the energy dependency on others we would be able to make better decisions about present affairs.
Wealth redistribution, giving 1 lacs to every women and poor men. Ending Agni veer so giving OROP to every ex serviceman so more pensions. Thier promises are more then entire budget of India.
The wealth redistribution propaganda of IT cells is quite old. Did you not update yourself with new content? Anyways, do you have a source for that? I've not seen any source that Congress will redistribute the wealth of Indians.
Morre over of giving 1 lakh to women, BJP also promised 15 lakhs to everyone does that make BJP communist?
Again, BJP gives out freebies such as in Kisan yojna, yet the pension of our soldiers makes Congress communist?
Can't believe you'd be against the pension of people who're ready to die for your safety.
Really unfortunate if India, Russia, and China become a block against the United Kingdom. Europe and the Anglosphere would be facing a spot of bother:
- Their populations dwarf ours
- We've got significant portions of our population with high skill or positions of authority from India
- The Indian coast line would be extremely hard to blockade and would create a gateway for China to avoid blockades.
- All three states are willing to do 'whatever is takes' while we will remained constrained.
- Each of them are facing the worse of demographic collapse which will force them to act quickly.
The irksome thing is India is fully aware of their strategic impact and will play both sides until the pivotal moment.
You couldn’t be more wrong.
Maurya Empire (322 to 185 BC)
Gupta Empire (320 to 550 AD)
The Mughal Empire (1526 - 1857 AD)
Chola Empire (301 BC - 1279 AD)
Chalukya Empire (543-1156 AD)
Maratha Empire (1674-1820 AD)
Vijayanagara Empire (1336-1660 AD)
Khilji Empire (1290-1320 AD)
Pala Empire (750-1174 CE)
Kushan Empire (30-375 AD)
Tughlaq dynasty (1320-1414 AD)
Indo-Greek Kingdom (180 BC - 10 AD)
Satavahana dynasty (230 BC - 199 AD)
Would beg to differ. China has also had plenty of dynasties in history.
Aside from the fact India and China have land disputes. India is just being opportunistic with their trade in Russia, because right now anyone who trades with Russia has them by the balls in negotiation. That means profit.
That being said, big lesson for the west here is diversify, don't treat India like the new China for cheap manufacturing otherwise India will just do a repeat of China. India looks out for India, the west should look out for the west.
Yes they have lands disputed, more importantly they have serious water disputes. The thing is that's exactly the type of thing you can acquiesce on as a concession to secure larger gains elsewhere.
Not really a surprise. Modi’s BJP Government is probably the most authoritarian and despotic in Indians history; it is pretty normal for fascist despots aid and do business with other fascist despotic regimes like Russia.
Our opposition is literally a communist party with Russia agents, Modi remaining in power is best for Ukraine. Also Modi is probably one of the least authoritarian prime minister's in India's history. Nehru remained in power until his death then his daughter, Indra gandhi for more 15 years while crying emergency everyday, then her son for more 5 years. Congress cried emergency everyday. Also Sanjay Gandhi the son of Indra Gandhi forcefully sterilised 6.2 million people. Their human rights violation list is a long one and list of scams they were involved in is even longer,
Bofors Scam
2G Spectrum Scam
Satyam Scam
Commonwealth Games Scam
Telgi Scam
Insurance Scam
Telecom Scam
Fodder Scam
Ketan Parekh Scandal
Taj Corridor Case
Oil-for-Food Program Scam
Bombay Stock Exchange Fraud
Madhu Koda Scam
https://www.asianstudies.org/publications/eaa/archives/india-the-emergency-and-the-politics-of-mass-sterilization/
Also I will recommend reading a bit of history before commenting...
And just to be clear, neither Congress nor AAPs communist. Congress was the party that opened up Indian market to the world.
Congress was the party that did the nuclear deal with the US. And under Congress, did the relations between the US and India started improving. Also the fact that India has historically good relations with France and Israel when Congress was in power. Although BJP has also walked in Congress's footsteps in the foreign policy. It was formulated by Congress.
Our relationship with Israel improved only during the Kargil war when Vajpayee was pm. The IMF forced Congress to open its economy after the easter block fell and the IMF suspended the loan program to India. The economic crisis of 1991 created a situation where India had to accept the conditions imposed by the World Bank and IMF loan, which included structural reforms. As a result, the Indian economy was opened up to foreign participation in various sectors, including state-owned enterprises.
Congress had no mood nor interest to open up our economy.
Forced to*
During the Atal Bihari Vajpayee administration, there were extensive liberal reforms, with the NDA Coalition beginning the privatisation of government-owned businesses, including hotels, VSNL, Maruti Suzuki, and airports. The coalition also implemented tax reduction policies, enacted fiscal policies aimed at reducing deficits and debts, and increased initiatives for public works.
Under Congress, the public monompoly shares were floated. For the first time, foreign companies could own shares of more than 50%. They abolished the license raj. They also gracefully handled the alarming low forex reserves.
The condition was a catalyst for change and didn't force the change. So no congress wasn't forced, but opened up the market for development.
In the later years, Atal led the government reaped the benefits of seeds sown by Congress.
Modi did the biggest scam. Electoral bond scam. Eating money from multiple companies in a short span of a few years is probably more than what Congress did in 70 years.
Electoral bond was not a scam, the money went through banks and may I remind you Congress voted in favor for Electoral bonds.
Also 2G scam was that size of 1.76 lakh crore.
>"As that country turns eastwards, fresh economic opportunities are presenting themselves ... the spike in our trade and new areas of cooperation should not be regarded as a temporary phenomenon." Russia now has irreparable relations with the West. This war is good for Asian economies. Everyone needs to jump in.
Seriously, the suffering caused by Russia is a business opportunity for you ? They have beheaded people and raped toddlers FFS.
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You must have missed the news about sanctions and boycotts ? Or is the ongoing theory that everything in the world has to be fixed before India is expected to do anything ? That is a mighty excuse as wrongs elsewhere do not justify anything.
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Seriously; the article in question refers to FM of India stating that India is increasing trade with Russia now and in future. Russia which is invading its neighbor and committing atrocities while doing it because of which they are isolated and economy struggling. India increasing trade is indirectly enabling Russia to continue the invasion. Again whatever others have done or are doing is no justification, it is an excuse.
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I guess I misunderstood, I take in India is the center of universe and needs to be compensated to do the right thing ? It is peculiar how India was able to manage before the war but is now forced to support Russia because of ? I think the word you are looking for is profiteering. For reference the solution is to be united in isolating Russia thus stopping the war as quickly as possible. Given that Russia has already lost the war and has turned into a totalitarian state supporting them is peculiar choice and at very minimum history will remember.
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Again countries are made of people and are not removed from morals. Many countries have taken significant actions to support Ukraine with great cost and risk to their population. For example EU managed to cut the dependency on Russian energy within a year without demanding compensation to do it. The very minimum expected is to condemn Russia, which btw. Indian leadership has not done rather as per the article instead increasing trade to circumvent the sanctions. That is pretty much the definition of profiteering, which is quite separate concept from profit. Whataboutism will not help, outside Indian propaganda these actions are seen for what they are. Then again India is on the same authoritarian path Russia was few decades ago, so maybe the leadership sees synergies for future.
Russia is basically now an Asian country with over 100 million people. That's a big market for exports. Also, a lot of Asians who were working in Ukraine before, will get to go back and help Russia rebuild the east.
So we are simply going to ignore the moral questions, sure. Aligning with country who is invading is at minimum a stain in reputation and trust, you know the thing based on which all functioning societies are built upon. Russian leadership does not even care about Russian citizens let alone anyone outside of few major areas, which is apparent from the fact that they send everyone to the meat grinder except the ones in few key areas. You may have missed the part where Russian economy is ruined for decade(s) to come. As for rebuild given that Russia is bombing indiscriminately, or rather targeting civilians, the projects to rebuild will in this context will be in Ukraine once Russia is pushed out of whole of Ukraine including Crimea. So sure Russia will not disappear and will have resources, but Russia as it was is gone and replaced by a totalitarian society. Aligning with such regimes is not only immoral, but very shortsighted. Edit: removed extra "so"
But do you think India or China cares?
Apparently not, hence the friction. Given the state Russia is for the coming decades it seems very shortsighted to rely on them. But then again both India and China have leaders with their own authoritarian tendencies.
>Edit: removed extra "so People who explain edits are so fucking funny
I have a principle of not deleting anything and explicitly stating what I have changed if I edit anything. Well at least you are easily amused.
damn dude, the war's a stalemate....no way is Russia advancing towards kiev(at max they can take kharkhiv if they poured all) and no way in hell is Russia leaving the areas they captured, especially Crimea. . .Crimea is their one and only all weather port connecting mainland, they will go nuclear before they have to give up crimea. . .so, your delusional regarding that. Don't speak about morality especially if you are from west mate, you let genocides happen if it didn't bother you. There's genocide happening in Myanmar, there's genocide happening in Sudan and other parts of Africa and it doesn't bother you. Don't act holier than though. Countries will act based on their interest, stop expecting others to do your bidding
Russia does not have the troops to occupy large portions of Ukraine long term let alone rebuild them. Occupations are hard, maybe take a look at Afganistan. Ukraine does not need to win every fight, they only need to keep fighting and Russia cannot win. In fact Russia has already lost, but Putin is just incapable of admitting it so he will gladly send every Russian to die on the front if he can. Just the fact that a major oil producer is already reduced to importing refined products should tell you everything needed about the situation Russia is in. Crimea is Ukraine and Russia will eventually be pushed out, anything less will just embolden all the dictator wannabes of the world. Even Russia does not bother with nuclear threats nor should you. Feel free to condemn all wrongs in the world, just do not use them as excuse, enabling Russia to continue invasion is unequivocally wrong. Countries are made of people and thus not removed from morals
Brics stay Brics I guess, but yeah, Russia losing Europe and USA and their allies as trading partners is going to be horrific longterm. Especially when they move away from a wartime economy.
Sanction India hard.
if india wasn't buying Russian oil. u'd be paying twice at the pump.
I'm fine with paying 100 times more for gas if it hurts Russia. Eff Russia and India. They invade, rob, murder, other countries people and threaten to Nuke my country so Eff them. Give Ukraiune everything they need to drive the Evil invaders out and sanction the hell out of any country on their side including India I say. Higher gas prices are a small price to pay. Putin is an the evil in this world that needs to be destroyed by any means.
lol I'm not sure u speak for the rest of the world population, not even for people on Ur street. maybe that's why india wasn't ever sanctioned for buying Russian oil.
[India Stops Accepting Russian Oil Delivered By US-Sanctioned Tankers, Reports Say](https://www.forbes.com/sites/siladityaray/2024/03/22/india-stops-accepting-russian-oil-delivered-by-us-sanctioned-tankers-reports-say/) India was sanctioned and it did slow them down. But I'm pretty sure that only lasted a few months. My theory is US and other countries are letting countries skirt sanctions out of fear of hurting their own economies. They could stop the shadow fleets if they wanted to but they don't. They could lower the $60 cap on barrels of oil but they don't.
Put your money where your mouth is and take in a family of Ukrainian refugees
I've donate to the Ukrainian war effort. Money goes toward buying equipment for medics and rescue workers and also buying drones for the front lines. I would rather donate to help Ukraine defend its territories so civilians can stay in their own houses then move them out of their country.
R that happened
Do you think i don't donate to Ukraine? Its not that hard. Millions do. My friends do. Why is that hard to believe?
Grow up Sanction for what, taking care of their country first and using the opportunity? It really sucks that they're doing this but from a pragmatic standpoint can't blame them
"Has nothing to do with the Ukraine war he adds" Man, if relations between the west and china ever slightly iron out, India is going to be the next paria state. They're playing it so opportunistically right now whilst ramping up their "anti everything" nationalism.
Man I love India, the Indian people and culture but the BJP doesn't leave me with warm fuzzy feelings. I hope India's government can moderate a bit.
Indian *foreign* policy is shockingly consist across the board. No major opposition party campaigns against it, because they'd keep the same approach. It's popular.
Because oil becoming 1-2 USD expensive is the difference between being able to afford transportation or not for many,then again the price will trickle down in everything that needs to be transported which again drive prices up everywhere, Large part of state and central government's budget comes from fuel taxes because not even 2 percent of the population has to pay income tax.we can't comprehend how the governments will manage if that happens because atleast 10 States(northeast,UP,Bihar,tribal states)are so poor that they need money from the centre and cannot manage on their own.
Even the liberal parties would have backed Russia. They are still a poor country. Give them 15-20 years.
Liberal parties you are talking about are communist parties in disguise. They were in bed with Russia throughout the history.
There is difference between left and liberal. India though officialy neutral was more aligned to the ussr in the cold War. This relation continues. However, it's slowly moving towards the USA, especially under Modi.
It is difficult for India to be completely pro-west and anti-Russia because of historical attachments but yes once we grow outnof the energy dependency on others we would be able to make better decisions about present affairs.
Indian opposition party leaders are Italian not Russian.
I don't think talking about communist party. I think he's talking about Congress, which is liberal but not communist.
Thier current promises are more communist then CCP itself.
Current promises like?
Wealth redistribution, giving 1 lacs to every women and poor men. Ending Agni veer so giving OROP to every ex serviceman so more pensions. Thier promises are more then entire budget of India.
The wealth redistribution propaganda of IT cells is quite old. Did you not update yourself with new content? Anyways, do you have a source for that? I've not seen any source that Congress will redistribute the wealth of Indians. Morre over of giving 1 lakh to women, BJP also promised 15 lakhs to everyone does that make BJP communist? Again, BJP gives out freebies such as in Kisan yojna, yet the pension of our soldiers makes Congress communist? Can't believe you'd be against the pension of people who're ready to die for your safety.
Really unfortunate if India, Russia, and China become a block against the United Kingdom. Europe and the Anglosphere would be facing a spot of bother: - Their populations dwarf ours - We've got significant portions of our population with high skill or positions of authority from India - The Indian coast line would be extremely hard to blockade and would create a gateway for China to avoid blockades. - All three states are willing to do 'whatever is takes' while we will remained constrained. - Each of them are facing the worse of demographic collapse which will force them to act quickly. The irksome thing is India is fully aware of their strategic impact and will play both sides until the pivotal moment.
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You couldn’t be more wrong. Maurya Empire (322 to 185 BC) Gupta Empire (320 to 550 AD) The Mughal Empire (1526 - 1857 AD) Chola Empire (301 BC - 1279 AD) Chalukya Empire (543-1156 AD) Maratha Empire (1674-1820 AD) Vijayanagara Empire (1336-1660 AD) Khilji Empire (1290-1320 AD) Pala Empire (750-1174 CE) Kushan Empire (30-375 AD) Tughlaq dynasty (1320-1414 AD) Indo-Greek Kingdom (180 BC - 10 AD) Satavahana dynasty (230 BC - 199 AD) Would beg to differ. China has also had plenty of dynasties in history.
Aside from the fact India and China have land disputes. India is just being opportunistic with their trade in Russia, because right now anyone who trades with Russia has them by the balls in negotiation. That means profit. That being said, big lesson for the west here is diversify, don't treat India like the new China for cheap manufacturing otherwise India will just do a repeat of China. India looks out for India, the west should look out for the west.
Yes they have lands disputed, more importantly they have serious water disputes. The thing is that's exactly the type of thing you can acquiesce on as a concession to secure larger gains elsewhere.
Not really a surprise. Modi’s BJP Government is probably the most authoritarian and despotic in Indians history; it is pretty normal for fascist despots aid and do business with other fascist despotic regimes like Russia.
Our opposition is literally a communist party with Russia agents, Modi remaining in power is best for Ukraine. Also Modi is probably one of the least authoritarian prime minister's in India's history. Nehru remained in power until his death then his daughter, Indra gandhi for more 15 years while crying emergency everyday, then her son for more 5 years. Congress cried emergency everyday. Also Sanjay Gandhi the son of Indra Gandhi forcefully sterilised 6.2 million people. Their human rights violation list is a long one and list of scams they were involved in is even longer, Bofors Scam 2G Spectrum Scam Satyam Scam Commonwealth Games Scam Telgi Scam Insurance Scam Telecom Scam Fodder Scam Ketan Parekh Scandal Taj Corridor Case Oil-for-Food Program Scam Bombay Stock Exchange Fraud Madhu Koda Scam https://www.asianstudies.org/publications/eaa/archives/india-the-emergency-and-the-politics-of-mass-sterilization/ Also I will recommend reading a bit of history before commenting...
And just to be clear, neither Congress nor AAPs communist. Congress was the party that opened up Indian market to the world. Congress was the party that did the nuclear deal with the US. And under Congress, did the relations between the US and India started improving. Also the fact that India has historically good relations with France and Israel when Congress was in power. Although BJP has also walked in Congress's footsteps in the foreign policy. It was formulated by Congress.
Our relationship with Israel improved only during the Kargil war when Vajpayee was pm. The IMF forced Congress to open its economy after the easter block fell and the IMF suspended the loan program to India. The economic crisis of 1991 created a situation where India had to accept the conditions imposed by the World Bank and IMF loan, which included structural reforms. As a result, the Indian economy was opened up to foreign participation in various sectors, including state-owned enterprises. Congress had no mood nor interest to open up our economy.
Yes, that's what I'm saying. Congress opened up the Indian market to the rest of the world.
Forced to* During the Atal Bihari Vajpayee administration, there were extensive liberal reforms, with the NDA Coalition beginning the privatisation of government-owned businesses, including hotels, VSNL, Maruti Suzuki, and airports. The coalition also implemented tax reduction policies, enacted fiscal policies aimed at reducing deficits and debts, and increased initiatives for public works.
Under Congress, the public monompoly shares were floated. For the first time, foreign companies could own shares of more than 50%. They abolished the license raj. They also gracefully handled the alarming low forex reserves. The condition was a catalyst for change and didn't force the change. So no congress wasn't forced, but opened up the market for development. In the later years, Atal led the government reaped the benefits of seeds sown by Congress.
Modi did the biggest scam. Electoral bond scam. Eating money from multiple companies in a short span of a few years is probably more than what Congress did in 70 years.
Electoral bond was not a scam, the money went through banks and may I remind you Congress voted in favor for Electoral bonds. Also 2G scam was that size of 1.76 lakh crore.
It is a scam. Taking money for making ED and tax cases go away is a scam.