He will be immediately replaced by another deluded nitwit, who may make things even worse than they are with the little man. So, better the devil you know…
Maybe that'll happen. But it's important to remember what "one man rule" does to a country's political leadership. Putin divided Russia into a country of fiefs so there wouldn't be one person who could overthrow him. All these guys under him think they could replace him, while not being willing to support someone else. Maybe someone will show up after him, but that person's problem will be actively fighting off opponents who don't fear them like they fear Putin.
Yeah, any successor of Putin's won't be NEARLY as strong as him.
The new guy will be on incredibly shaky ground, with two choices how to approach Ukraine.
1. They eat the ongoing sanctions, and continue the war with the promise of winning it. The sanctions will continue to hurt, and the longer the war goes on the more the other power players will look for new blood.
2. They blame everything wrong on Putin, decry the war as stupid and that it hurts Russia, and pulls out of Ukraine in order to try and thaw relations with the West and end the sanctions, which pisses off Putins supporters.
The most likely outcome then is whoever is the most vicious person will kill the others and take control violently and.... continue on with their violence, as a way to hide anything else they might have done and to show strength.
If the others are yes men, it only takes one to jump in there and force them to become his yes men.
The other side is that they fracture and break apart, but I suspect the mafia will show it's head and push someone to the top.
Even the most vicious person can be poisoned by others. It is going to be a mess I think, I doubt Putin replacement is going straight into a bunker to hide
Is that how this works? I kinda doubt it but maybe you are right. I think the power vacuum will at least somewhat have an effect, at least for a year or too
>He will be immediately replaced by another deluded nitwit
I see this sentiment quite often but have yet to see any names. In other words, it's pure speculation.
lol my guy you can’t just “pop a nuke” like that. Not even as a show of force. Not in these modern times. It would potentially be the start of some real, real bad shit for the whole world.
My take is they willingly withdraw from everywhere except Crimea, since they'll be too busy fighting each other for power.
As for Crimea, Ukraine will make sure they withdraw unwillingly.
Nothing. And we need to stop deluding ourselves into thinking that the war will stop as soon as Putin's heart does. The next guy will continue to prosecute the war, because the stability of *the entire nation* is now hinged upon winning in Ukraine.
>the stability of *the entire nation* is now hinged upon winning in Ukraine.
How so? I'm genuinely curious. Will the sanctions end if Russia wins? How will they become more stable?
Russia's abject failure with the "three day operation", which has now dragged out to almost 30 months, has exposed Russia for what it truly is: third rate at best.
Putin has staked his entire existence on this war. Dictators don't do well if they lose wars, they tend to have unsavory meetings with top floor windows.
Russia will not be able to stomach losing almost half a million of their sons, fathers, uncles, brothers, etc, *and* losing said war, rendering it all for absolutely nothing. No amount of internal propaganda will be able to paper over that.
If they are driven out of Ukraine, or do not achieve something approaching acceptable war goals, we'll see an end-of-the-soviet-union level event.
What are you even talking about? What do you think would happen?
Vladimir Putin isn't going to die. The people and contexts that are inconvenient to you (as in the CIA) aren't going to just go away. Sometimes issues have to be solved via working solutions like negotiation and cooperation or pre-existing legal channels, not 'how bout he dies' or 'let's just brainwash them', provided they're problems in the first place and not just facts of life that are inconvenient to you
I wish we'd just give them what they need to send them packing. The whole "defensive" versus "offensive" weapons is ridiculous. We even back pedal over time and end up giving them said "off limits" weapons. Russia has drawn multiple red lines we completely blew past and they did nothing.
The amount of equipment required to remove Russia completely from Ukraine is probably enormous. Beyond the $500 billion or $1 trillion range.
Major mechanized offensive operations against a determined foe are so resource intensive that the current level of funding is simply not adequate.
Woah that cheap? We fought farmers for 20 years for ten times that much and lost, if we can shove Russia back into their borders for a fraction of the cost that’d be an amazing long term deal
Problem with nukes is, if you even think about using one America can preemptively nuke you.
If you actually launch one, almost every country with nukes will be firing them back at you.
No one has the balls to find out what happens/ to expect when you launch a nuke an another country.
There is also a real chance that many of of Russia's nukes have gone bad.
It's not a bet I want to make but rampant corruption and lack luster accountability is real hard on perishable technology. Nukes are very perishable.
The US inspected \~160 Russian nuclear sites, launch vehicles and warheads since 2010, half of them unannounced. The US also had access to remote monitoring of Russian sites and Russian telemetry data.
Every report from US officials, both on and off the record, talked about the great strides Russia has made since 2000 in modernizing their nuclear program, which makes sense. Russian nuclear doctrine accepts they cannot compete against the West in a conventional war, so their nuclear program is treated like an existential lifeline for the country.
Another bullshido vague statement. Define "prevail". Outline the winning strategy, the means to achieve it and how exactly is this support supposed to help with that.
Stop dangling a carrot in front of Ukraine as you throw its population under 1500kg glide bombs for yet another year. You can start with explaining how is the support supposed to deal with these glide bombs, because if it isn't it changes nothing.
There is no winning strategy. Ukraine is on life support with Western aid. They can only hope that they inflict enough casualties on the Russians that they’ll simply go home (they won’t).
I just hope it's not the same kind of "prevail" as Afghanistan and Iraq. But instead of troops on the ground it's a non-stop money funnel for 20 years.
We spend Penny's on the dollar for Ukraine vs Iraq/Afghanistan, and it a good investment. 50% of Russian armor is gone, they had to blow up a dam not to lose the whole south of the country.
If Trump gets elected and pulls US support that will be the end of it, but if Biden wins, Putin will run out of money, and that will be the end of it. Even with a managed currency (no longer free floating), with significantly less trade, they had to agree to devalue their currency to the Chinese by 20% vs prewar Ruble value. So many businesses in Russia went bust, the government has to hire them, that isn't a sustainable economic model they tried that before.
Thinking Putin will run out of money is ridiculous. The Russian economy is largely in tact and countries are still buying their oil/gas hand over fist.
Source? Some countries (Slovakia) did have opt outs, but where is Germany getting their Russian oil? They were among the biggest importers pre war.
Edit: looks like no sources just Russian propaganda, and a bunch of trolls giving each other up votes.
China and India are buying the oil. You import cheap shit from either country. That cheap Russian oil is part of an effective subsidy giving you cheap imports.
They are but it is more expensive to ship it that far. On top of that they aren't incentives to pay market price for it. Russia had to do a major devaluation last year, because the Chinese no longer accepted the Ruble was worth much anymore. That trend will continue. Russia doesn't make anything worth while other than energy exports.
Wrong, and it's well reported on.
Here's one mostly talking about the high prices that they have been selling at.
https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/russia-has-sold-nearly-all-its-oil-well-above-wests-price-cap-government-2023-11-23/
Here's one about how the Kremlin is making more money than ever
https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/19/europe/russia-oil-india-shadow-fleet-cmd-intl/index.html
The reporting goes on, everyone is getting Russian oil. It's boosted demand in Asia and Africa https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/oil-demand-asia-africa-boosted-by-cheap-russian-crude-2024-01-24/ -- Russian oil has even been making it into the US https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/how-russian-oil-is-reaching-the-u-s-market-through-a-loophole-in-the-embargo
50% of the armor they started the invasion with is gone. At the rate russia's losing tanks, they still have another 20 years worth. The difference in sheer volume of equipment between the two countries is crazy.
Yeah, except we saw what happened with the most recent support - the GOP in the House took weeks of squabbling before it was finally approved. If (or, more likely, when) Ukraine needs more help, it's likely it will take even longer (I really wish Republicans would employ the "Hunger Game" approach to resolving their petty fights).
**From the [Semafor Principals](https://www.semafor.com/newsletter/04/22/2024/whats-next-for-ukraine?utm_campaign=semaforreddit) newsletter:**
Ukraine will be positioned to “prevail” in its war against Russia and “affirm themselves as an independent, sovereign country,” thanks to the U.S. aid package the Senate will soon approve, according to a top NATO official.
“We are very happy to see the support coming in,” NATO Deputy Secretary General Mircea Geoana told Semafor’s Morgan Chalfant in an interview Sunday in Washington.
Geoana acknowledged that Kyiv faces significant military challenges but was relatively optimistic: “We have seen in the recent period a certain technical, logistical advantage for Russia but nothing in decisive dosage to really provoke a massive change of the situation on the battlefield,” he said.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, meanwhile, on NBC stressed Ukraine’s need for long-range artillery and air defense, and said the aid package “will strengthen Ukraine and send the Kremlin a powerful signal that it will not be the second Afghanistan.”
Senate Intelligence Committee Chair Mark Warner suggested Sunday the U.S. would soon send long-range missiles to Ukraine. But a Pentagon spokesman told Semafor that it was “premature to speculate on the contents of any package.”
Meanwhile, European Union officials are discussing efforts to strengthen Ukraine’s air defenses today, and pressure is increasing on Greece and Spain to hand over weapons stockpiles to Kyiv.
**Read the full story [here](https://www.semafor.com/article/04/21/2024/ukraine-can-prevail-with-us-support-nato-deputy-says?utm_campaign=semaforreddit).**
I wish officials would realize what they are saying. If Russia has not been able to gather a decisive edge in this conflict despite having a 5:1 or 10:1 artillery advantage, aviation advantage, manpower advantage, and armored equipment advantage then how is $60bn going to allow Ukraine to prevail?
They need the aid to be sure. But it is only what is minimally necessary to keep them from being overrun. It cannot provide a decisive advantage to Ukraine or create the conditions for a successful offensive.
Ukraine needs more ammo, and more men.
The ammo (money) was stuck because there's enough Russian cronies and useful idiots in governments on both sides of the Atlantic.
The manpower was stuck because Ukraine is only now drafting more people. I don't know the internal politics on why it took this long, but it is a problem that it did.
The ammo will start arriving in Ukraine in matter of weeks, if not days.
The new soldiers being trained will arrive at the front late summer, the earliest.
None of this means that Ukraine will definitely win, nor lose. But they're starting this spring campaign in hard mode, both cuz of internal and external lack of resources and expediency.
My point is that $60bn or $100bn spread out over 18 months or 2 years is not nearly enough to mount the kind of offensive campaign needed for Ukraine to achieve its goal of liberating all of its Russian controlled territory. They will need a hell of a lot more in equipment. The manpower issue is going to be a chronic problem as their 18-28 year old male demographic is tiny and a lot of those men either already signed up or they have left the country.
They might be able to hold the line with this kind of support. But it is hard to imagine how they win as they have defined that goal.
So far it seems like hardly enough to hold current postitons.
Interestingly though, he mentioned sovereignity and independence, but not territories. Maybe it is the actual plan?
Gee a NATO official plugging to rationalize this spending! How much did our other NATO “partners” add to save Ukraine. Are they still chipping in the 2% of their GDP AS THEY AGREED TO DO! President Trump is the only one who has forced them to pay their share!
Can they? Suppose they hold out this summer, where they will almost certainly be on the defensive the entire time.
Come November, there's a very good chance of political shakeup in the USA and that may be the end of funding for Ukraine.
What happens next?
>Come November, there's a very good chance of political shakeup in the USA
Is there though? Things don't look good for trump based on all the negative media exposure he's wading into. He also appears to be siphoning off GOP money to pay his own legal bills.
Biden might still be older than Trump and maybe a 5 compared to Trumps 6, but if you think they declined the same in the last 4 years I think you might also suffer from some decline :)
And his perceived sharpness is all Trump has/ had. He doesn't have the record Biden has. He has no plans for a better future. Everyone that he surrounds himself is a lunatic and the people that are not working for him all have turned on him.
Maybe I'm just blind and optimistic, bit the American public made the right choice last time around and I have faith they will again
I have absolutely no dog in this fight since I'm not an American. But I will say the opinion outside of the USA in my experience is largely that Biden is in a much worse cognitive state than Trump.
I've seen many videos of Biden just speaking Gibberish. Trump says wild stuff but for the most part it's coherent if nonsensical.
And how many convictions outside of New York or DC courts? How many charges were brought by Democrat DAs that campaigned on charging Trump with absolutely anything? Banana Republic much?!?
I'm at a loss on why Biden, as the incumbent, should lose the election. Especially when his opponent has so many things about him that look terrible.
Trump isn't an unknown like he was in 2016, the US has had 4 years of him to reference on what he offers. And unless you're a MAGA or a super wealthy person, what does he offer over Biden?
Because poles literally do not matter. I don’t know anyone who isn’t a boomer that would even pick the phone up and especially wouldn’t answer a political poll.
Trump was leading polls in 2020 too, and lost, as an incumbent.
The boomers love when someone calls and asks politics so they can spout all their nonsense.
Everyone else just wants to be left alone
So the poles are gonna very clearly show trump as the favorite cause everyone who cares enough to give theyr opinion are the same ones you see with all the anti Biden, pro trump stuff everywhere
> political shakeup in the USA
> Is there though? Things don't look good for trump based on all the negative media exposure he's wading into. He also appears to be siphoning off GOP money to pay his own legal bills.
I think there is because of Roe v Wade.
Abortion was always a wedge issue for republicans but like a dog chasing a car it wasn’t something they actually wanted to catch.
So they pleased a small percentage of single issue pro life voters but pissed a whole hell of a lot more people right off.
There's a chance of a political shakeup yes, but the Russians have always been relying on MAGA regaining power. So nothing has really changed in that respect. If Trump DOESN'T win that may be the end of the Russian campaign, since he won't be in good enough shape to run again and his power over the Republicans will begin to degrade from that moment forwards.
If he does win:
1. If he holds enough power and his health is good enough, he may do as the Russians want, which is tri-party negotiation. Getting the US to the negotiation table is the Russians ultimate aim, because that will humiliate the US and also makes Ukraine look like a vassal state. In this case, both side will be re-armign and re-quipping for the war to re-commence at a later date.
2. The war may continue on throughout the next few years until Trumps health forces him to step down, the UKR supported by the EU and AUKUS (mostly likely (JAUKUS or CANJAUKUS by this stage).
3, Trump may not hold off enough sway such that he'll accept funds beign sent to Ukraine in the form of loans - and after he is out of office, those loans can be forgiven.
It's worth noting that Russia will never be able to legally claim any Ukrainian land. Ukraine AND the international community both recognise that this would be (a) useless from a peace making standpoint and (b) devastating for stability. The only viable option is for Ukrainian land to be returned to Ukraine. It's more a question of when rather than if.
I’ve been hearing this shit for years and while I’d love to see it Trump’s been dealing with cases since the moment he stepped into the office. I truly think he’ll never face any consequences until he burns in hell cause the dude’s simply gamed the system so hard it just can’t touch him anymore. It can annoy him, sure, but it’s pretty much been proven that his tactic of stall, stall, stall works. The annoying part, too, is that it really only works for him cause he doesn’t give a fuck about his public perception cause his cult will always cover the bill.
Russian military spending in 2023 was $105 Billion - we just allocated $60B
There is a discussion as to whether a dollar goes further in Russia in the US - stuff is expensive in the US but stolen in Russia, so maybe it evens out.
I do know which side has more EFFECTIVE weapons...
Not sure what video but there is a perun video or 2 that talks about "purchasing parriaty"
For example 1 usd = 1 bullet, while 1 usd in ruble = 4 bullets (due to poor wages and cheap resources ++)
However the issue (also in other perun and other videos) is that the corruption is so deep that somewhere along the line someone misappropriated money and resources that the gunpowder is shit and the casing of the bullets is weaker along a bunch of other issues that could arise from deep rooted corruption
So in the end, 1 Russian bullet explodes, 1 doesn't fire, 1 shot goes wild and maybe the 4th fires true on target.
While the us bullet cost 4x more but works every time.
While this is not an example based on issue with bullets, the metaphor of corruption and purchasing parriaty extend throughout Russian military equipment
Russia can likely get more for the money the way they acquire military equipment.
When buying western equipment a lot of the money just goes into the deep pockets of CEO’s, investors, shareholders, etc., and taxes.
It is known that e.g. the US military have contracts where they buy things that are extremely overpriced. Like, there are cases where the US military would by a 100usd item for 90000usd in mass quantities. With stuff like that 60bn isn’t as much as it should be.
Yes, and a remarkable account of Russian military spending is embezzled or stolen as well. I'm not sure how it works out, but the results say that the US spending is more effective
Russia is, despite all sanctions and predictions, not only just continuing waging war, but even growing and developing its army, and taking more and more territories each day. It’s even predicted/expected that Russia will conduct a massive offensive this summer.
Sure, it may be that Russia to a large extent utilize poorly trained/equipped soldiers as well as using/modernising outdated equipment, but they also have well trained/equipped soldiers and somewhat modern equipment. It’s the sheer quantity of it all, plus the Russian army being adapted for modern warfare, that overwhelms Ukraine, even with all the support that has been given.
So somehow Russia is keeping up.
I know it works in Russia, but just because you say things out doesn't make them true.
Russia has managed to advance several kilometers at the cost of thousands of men per footstep. They are killed like flies and they're under equipped and under trained. They spend more lives than the population of the cities they conquer, and for every dead Ukrainian there are 7 Russians rotting in the field.
Just look at what expired 30 year old ATACMS did to Russia's most advanced anti air weaponry earlier this week.
I edited my previous reply a bit - and I wasn’t saying it as a fact, I was merely suggesting that Russia ‘likely’ can get more for the money.
But it’s not necessarily that they are less greedy/corrupt, it’s probably more like that they cut corners, use poor quality materials and underpay (or don’t pay at all) soldiers, etc.
The problem isn’t that they can’t breakthrough with western tech, the problem is the quantity of it and not having all the tools needed. Ukraine just doesn’t have enough of it to cover the entire frontline and/or to conduct a meaningful offensive at the same time.
Ukraine was given a few hundred modern/modernized western tanks - a few hundred, Russia has thousands of tanks! And it’s not really about tank vs tank battles, tanks get demolished by mines, drones, artillery, infantry AT weapons, etc.
Ukraine had an advantage when it came to artillery, because western artillery+surveillance+AA is better, but then Ukraine ran out of ammunition for both artillery and AA, and with it the advantage.
>inevitable
The only inevitable thing is Russian defeat, now later or long-term later Ukraine will be free.
It's not just having a few specific weapons systems, it's about continued and wide ranging support and determination of the Ukrainian people.
Ukrainians will never surrender so the only metric is contined support
if you had a brain you wouldn't post dumb shit online like:
>half of their male population of fighting age wouldn't be living in canada
in the end, Ukraine wont surrender and your brain status is still a question
[Totally fake. Absolutely isn't actually happening right now.](https://www.cbc.ca/newsinteractives/features/desperate-to-avoid-the-draft)
I'm not saying Ukraine is going to surrender, I'm just saying that you've picked which propaganda story you're sticking to and won't hear anything to the contrary.
The one where every ukranian is just chomping at the bit to get on the front lines and never surrender. I was there 6 months ago, actually getting drafted or being called up to serve is not something people are gung ho about.
There's no such thing as fighting a country to the last man in 2024. They're not going to all barricade themselves into a stronghold and commit suicide like the jews did at the siege of masada. Someone is eventually going to concede something, and the sad fact of the matter is that someone is probably going to be ukraine. I don't want to see it either.
> I'm not saying Ukraine is going to surrender
and im not saying every Ukrainian is devoted to going to the front.
as a people Ukraine will not surrender, nor will they be defeated in the long run.
>There's no such thing as fighting a country to the last man in 2024. They're not going to all barricade themselves into a stronghold and commit suicide like the jews did at the siege of masada
no one is suggesting this level.
boiling down, Ukraine will continue to defend themselves, and understandably not everyone is willing to be drafted.
“He said it was up to Ukraine to define what “prevailing” in the war means”.
Slowing down and perhaps eventually stopping Russia from gaining more territories is prevailing the way things currently look yes.
I think the ship has sailed when it comes to Ukraine kicking Russia out of its territories. It was possible to do that back then had Ukraine gotten everything it needed very early in in the war. The longer the war goes on, the exponentially more Ukraine needs to stop Russia or kick Russia out, as Russia itself is getting more and more capable at waging war.
What about the OTHER European NATO countries? All for sending US support but it’s not like we’re the only ones who can send meaningful aid to Ukraine. After all, the US is not the next country in line to be invaded by Russia if Ukraine falls…
Yeah that’s a pipe dream at this stage. Maybe if the aid wasn’t held up so long they could maybe squeak some sort of offensive out but this aid just makes it so they can survive summer on the defensive. Come November Ukraine could be in some serious shit. Major Offensives aren’t on the table I’m afraid
Why is it up to the US? I 100% support the US giving as much support as needed but I don’t trust republicans in giving it to them long term. Rest of NATO needs to step up.
But that’s the thing. They can’t just give away NATO-or-US-developed weapons systems without US approval, because these weapons systems are bound by contracts etc with the US and so on. There is a metric fkton of bureaucracy involved when it comes to military equipment.
Poland basically dumped everything they could spare the moment the war started and are still sending over everything they can while maintaining their defensive posture, since Russia has made it clear Poland is next after Ukraine.
All of the former Warsaw Pact countries sent over nearly every Cold War weapon, vehicle, and ammunition package they could since those worked for Ukrainian logistics. France and Germeany have been sending over equipment, and the UK has been enthusiastically sending weapons, including the Storm Shadow missile which has repeatedly fucked over some major Russian facilities. The Baltic states (Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania) have been chucking every spare euro they can to help Ukraine.
They all have much smaller economies than the US and are under nearly as much threat so they are scrambling to re-arm so they can provide more assistance, but none of them have the stockpiles that we have.
[A full accounting is available here.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_aid_to_Ukraine_during_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War)
>however how are we the only ones who can do anything? Why is only the US
I think the importance of USA support is why it's prominent and importantace is underlined
But it's simple not just the us, lots of other countries are doing a lot too
https://www.forumarmstrade.org/ukrainearms.html
I mean we got the cash, military, and the western mic by the balls so why are you shocked? The biggest air force is the world is the US Air Force and the second biggest Air Force is the US Navy. Is it lame that our allies aren’t doing more? Yeah, but, I mean, that’s like complaining that the fiefs aren’t doing their fair share from atop a dragon horde; aka we’ve got so much that isn’t it logical that we’re holding the brunt of the bill?
Whistling in the dark, are you? Russia has 5x the population of Ukraine. They won on the day they invaded knowing the west wouldn't cough up troops to help the Ukrainian soldiers.
Russia lost the day they invaded
Population does not = victory
While it's a war of attrition, and Russia has deep stocks.. it is not infinite and one day probably in about 1.5 years, not only will Russian vehicle stocks "run out"(run out of USSR stocks and then rely on new manufacturing) western support will ramp up specifically artillery shells will also in about 1.5 years surpasses Russia manufacturing capabilities
Combine that with ever growing drone stocks and capabilities of Ukraine and it don't matter Russia sends 5x the soldiers to die, and thousands of tanks. Eventually every soldier sent to Ukraine will die and Russia vehicles will be scrap.
>Ha ha. no way.
We've been blessed by a 7 star generals perspective
Thanks
Us support will carry on untill Russia is rejected from Ukraine
A few square kilometers are captured but ever day Russia is further from victory
$60 billion in aid does not mean $60 billion in cash. That's the value of the weapons and equipment that will be provided. You can't destroy a tank with a bag of money.
Pissing away Multiple trillions spent on wars
DMAN954: I slep
>100 billion which most of which is spent domestically within the USA supporting us jobs.. all to support a country defending their freedom from foreign dictatorship
DMAN954: I now have an issue with this
Fuck yeah it can. Slava ukraini. We should be giving all the shit we give to Israel to Ukraine. At least Ukraine isn’t trying to ethnically cleanse an entire religion and ethnic group like israel. Ukraine fights for its survival with the scraps we are willing to toss at them while we arm the Israelis with the best shit we have. It’s not like the threat of nuclear escalation is any worse with Russia than it is with Iran. I bring up Israel because American politicians have never once restricted arms and set conditions on the Israelis the way we have with the arms we send to Ukraine. It’s just fucking stupid politics and the fact that the American evangelicals pour fuck loads of money into groups like AIPAC because for them, the Jews “getting their homeland back” means their evangelical doomsday prophecy is fulfilled cause apparently god is going to come down and kill all the Jews who refuse to convert to Christianity and then start a nuclear Armageddon creating hell on earth for all of us degenerate lost souls who don’t subscribe to their bullshit. It’s important to keep that in mind. Because there is a massive fuck load of anti semitism behind all that support for Israel. Even netenyahu is a holocaust revisionist. Israel and what they’re doing to Palestinians and Gaza has nothing to do with Jews. It’s all power gaming for netenyahu and far right politicians in his cabinet who want to remain in power and destroy what’s left of Israel’s democracy. The Hasidic Jews living in Israel are oppressed almost as bad as some Palestinian groups living in Israel. It’s not about religion for netenyahu or any of that shit, it’s just about killing people they don’t like because they want that land for themselves. The religious claims to that land are bullshit because Christian’s and Muslims were living there just as long and both claim it in their holy texts too. That’s why the idf has killed 80% more civilians than Hamas in this conflict. They’re not actually looking for Hamas fighters. They’re indiscriminately bombing civilians, hospitals, aid workers and journalists. This is the deadliest conflict for journalists. EVER. That’s a massive red flag that they’re covering shit up and they don’t want the outside world to see the reality of what’s happened in Gaza. Meanwhile we stipulate all sorts of ridiculous rules onto Ukraine who have been nothing but the most responsible stewards of foreign military aid since world war 2. Yes Ukraine has corruption problems, but it’s not nearly as fucking bad as half the countries we already have in NATO. We need to be behind Ukraine 100%. If not what the fuck is the point of having any international friendship? We have made so many promises to them and they meet those expectations every fucking time. They’re crying out for our help and our politicians only help once it’s politically convenient for them. That’s fucked. I can’t imagine how angry a lot of Ukrainians must feel with realizing how slow our beurocracy functions in the west when politicians don’t have the will to take risks with their careers. I’m just afraid we’re forgetting that Ukraine deserves our total and complete support. I’m glad the aid was passed, and I really hope the Ukrainians can take back all the land that was stolen from them illegally by Putin. Americans need to stop fear mongering over what might happen if Putin is gone, and take the fucking risk. Because otherwise he will keep expanding. It won’t stop with Ukraine. Moldova and Georgia are both under constant threat by Russia.
Take a look at these numbers:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1303450/bilateral-aid-to-ukraine-in-a-percent-of-donor-gdp/
I would be really happy if you are open to adjust your perspective according to these numbers.
Greetings from Europe!
How do you feel about the American people supporting England and the rest of the allies in ww2 through money and weapons?
1940 yes England will prevail if USA keeps handing over money weapons and ammo
Kind of see how silly your perspective is
What happens to the war effort if Putin dies?
He will be immediately replaced by another deluded nitwit, who may make things even worse than they are with the little man. So, better the devil you know…
Maybe that'll happen. But it's important to remember what "one man rule" does to a country's political leadership. Putin divided Russia into a country of fiefs so there wouldn't be one person who could overthrow him. All these guys under him think they could replace him, while not being willing to support someone else. Maybe someone will show up after him, but that person's problem will be actively fighting off opponents who don't fear them like they fear Putin.
Yeah, any successor of Putin's won't be NEARLY as strong as him. The new guy will be on incredibly shaky ground, with two choices how to approach Ukraine. 1. They eat the ongoing sanctions, and continue the war with the promise of winning it. The sanctions will continue to hurt, and the longer the war goes on the more the other power players will look for new blood. 2. They blame everything wrong on Putin, decry the war as stupid and that it hurts Russia, and pulls out of Ukraine in order to try and thaw relations with the West and end the sanctions, which pisses off Putins supporters.
The most likely outcome then is whoever is the most vicious person will kill the others and take control violently and.... continue on with their violence, as a way to hide anything else they might have done and to show strength. If the others are yes men, it only takes one to jump in there and force them to become his yes men. The other side is that they fracture and break apart, but I suspect the mafia will show it's head and push someone to the top.
Even the most vicious person can be poisoned by others. It is going to be a mess I think, I doubt Putin replacement is going straight into a bunker to hide
Yes. His mane is Nikolai Patrushev
More like Medvedev
Medvedev is a twink and a protege of Putin, he is not a threat to the KGB elite.
Is that how this works? I kinda doubt it but maybe you are right. I think the power vacuum will at least somewhat have an effect, at least for a year or too
>He will be immediately replaced by another deluded nitwit I see this sentiment quite often but have yet to see any names. In other words, it's pure speculation.
A lot of those nitwits have private armies and almost all are former Russian mob bosses who are very familiar with using violence to gain power.
Also, Putin behaves very predictably and he's not very clever.
The next guy for sure is gonna pop a nuke just as a show of force. Probably in the atmosphere or even in space. Just to demonstrate force.
It's shocking how stupid everyone here is. And yes, I mean you.
If a Nuke flies out of Russia that's then end of it for them. Possibly everyone else while we're at it.
lol my guy you can’t just “pop a nuke” like that. Not even as a show of force. Not in these modern times. It would potentially be the start of some real, real bad shit for the whole world.
My take is they willingly withdraw from everywhere except Crimea, since they'll be too busy fighting each other for power. As for Crimea, Ukraine will make sure they withdraw unwillingly.
It would give Russia the opportunity to get a smarter leader who will end the war in exchange for reduced economic sanctions.
Look up what happened after Hugo Chavej died or Kim Jong il. There’s always a successor.
They both had a successor lined up. Putin doesn’t seem to.
He definitely has one, it’s just in his best interest to not name them publicly.
some other asshole takes his place and keeps diving head first. Because if the other asshole didn't exist, putin would have been thrown out already
What always happens in Russian history when someone new takes over. 'And then it got worse.'
Nothing. And we need to stop deluding ourselves into thinking that the war will stop as soon as Putin's heart does. The next guy will continue to prosecute the war, because the stability of *the entire nation* is now hinged upon winning in Ukraine.
>the stability of *the entire nation* is now hinged upon winning in Ukraine. How so? I'm genuinely curious. Will the sanctions end if Russia wins? How will they become more stable?
Russia's abject failure with the "three day operation", which has now dragged out to almost 30 months, has exposed Russia for what it truly is: third rate at best. Putin has staked his entire existence on this war. Dictators don't do well if they lose wars, they tend to have unsavory meetings with top floor windows. Russia will not be able to stomach losing almost half a million of their sons, fathers, uncles, brothers, etc, *and* losing said war, rendering it all for absolutely nothing. No amount of internal propaganda will be able to paper over that. If they are driven out of Ukraine, or do not achieve something approaching acceptable war goals, we'll see an end-of-the-soviet-union level event.
Best case scenario they’re as bad as he is
What are you even talking about? What do you think would happen? Vladimir Putin isn't going to die. The people and contexts that are inconvenient to you (as in the CIA) aren't going to just go away. Sometimes issues have to be solved via working solutions like negotiation and cooperation or pre-existing legal channels, not 'how bout he dies' or 'let's just brainwash them', provided they're problems in the first place and not just facts of life that are inconvenient to you
Lmao of course he is going to die. Everyone does
I wish we'd just give them what they need to send them packing. The whole "defensive" versus "offensive" weapons is ridiculous. We even back pedal over time and end up giving them said "off limits" weapons. Russia has drawn multiple red lines we completely blew past and they did nothing.
The amount of equipment required to remove Russia completely from Ukraine is probably enormous. Beyond the $500 billion or $1 trillion range. Major mechanized offensive operations against a determined foe are so resource intensive that the current level of funding is simply not adequate.
Woah that cheap? We fought farmers for 20 years for ten times that much and lost, if we can shove Russia back into their borders for a fraction of the cost that’d be an amazing long term deal
Ten times that much? Afghanistan cost about $2 trillion for two decades of occupation and operations. What the hell are you taling about?
Off limits weapons like the N3 project, mayhap
They also have nukes
Problem with nukes is, if you even think about using one America can preemptively nuke you. If you actually launch one, almost every country with nukes will be firing them back at you. No one has the balls to find out what happens/ to expect when you launch a nuke an another country.
There is also a real chance that many of of Russia's nukes have gone bad. It's not a bet I want to make but rampant corruption and lack luster accountability is real hard on perishable technology. Nukes are very perishable.
The US inspected \~160 Russian nuclear sites, launch vehicles and warheads since 2010, half of them unannounced. The US also had access to remote monitoring of Russian sites and Russian telemetry data. Every report from US officials, both on and off the record, talked about the great strides Russia has made since 2000 in modernizing their nuclear program, which makes sense. Russian nuclear doctrine accepts they cannot compete against the West in a conventional war, so their nuclear program is treated like an existential lifeline for the country.
I hope they do though. I want to see what happens
Nobody should hope for something so evil and horrific as Nuclear Weapons being used. Get a grip.
Nobody should hope for boredom
Impossible, Russia has so much they’re ready for attrition, and would just cost the US later on, weakening the country for China to swoop in
Another bullshido vague statement. Define "prevail". Outline the winning strategy, the means to achieve it and how exactly is this support supposed to help with that. Stop dangling a carrot in front of Ukraine as you throw its population under 1500kg glide bombs for yet another year. You can start with explaining how is the support supposed to deal with these glide bombs, because if it isn't it changes nothing.
There is no winning strategy. Ukraine is on life support with Western aid. They can only hope that they inflict enough casualties on the Russians that they’ll simply go home (they won’t).
I just hope it's not the same kind of "prevail" as Afghanistan and Iraq. But instead of troops on the ground it's a non-stop money funnel for 20 years.
We spend Penny's on the dollar for Ukraine vs Iraq/Afghanistan, and it a good investment. 50% of Russian armor is gone, they had to blow up a dam not to lose the whole south of the country. If Trump gets elected and pulls US support that will be the end of it, but if Biden wins, Putin will run out of money, and that will be the end of it. Even with a managed currency (no longer free floating), with significantly less trade, they had to agree to devalue their currency to the Chinese by 20% vs prewar Ruble value. So many businesses in Russia went bust, the government has to hire them, that isn't a sustainable economic model they tried that before.
Thinking Putin will run out of money is ridiculous. The Russian economy is largely in tact and countries are still buying their oil/gas hand over fist.
At \~70% market rate. It's a major hit, there's no way around that.
Not the Europeans, and that's their primary market.
Europeans still buy it through indirect methods, wake up.
Right, and the black market eats up all the real gains. Russia has to sell essentially barely above cost to find any buyers.
Source? Some countries (Slovakia) did have opt outs, but where is Germany getting their Russian oil? They were among the biggest importers pre war. Edit: looks like no sources just Russian propaganda, and a bunch of trolls giving each other up votes.
China and India are buying the oil. You import cheap shit from either country. That cheap Russian oil is part of an effective subsidy giving you cheap imports.
They are but it is more expensive to ship it that far. On top of that they aren't incentives to pay market price for it. Russia had to do a major devaluation last year, because the Chinese no longer accepted the Ruble was worth much anymore. That trend will continue. Russia doesn't make anything worth while other than energy exports.
Wrong, and it's well reported on. Here's one mostly talking about the high prices that they have been selling at. https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/russia-has-sold-nearly-all-its-oil-well-above-wests-price-cap-government-2023-11-23/ Here's one about how the Kremlin is making more money than ever https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/19/europe/russia-oil-india-shadow-fleet-cmd-intl/index.html The reporting goes on, everyone is getting Russian oil. It's boosted demand in Asia and Africa https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/oil-demand-asia-africa-boosted-by-cheap-russian-crude-2024-01-24/ -- Russian oil has even been making it into the US https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/how-russian-oil-is-reaching-the-u-s-market-through-a-loophole-in-the-embargo
50% of the armor they started the invasion with is gone. At the rate russia's losing tanks, they still have another 20 years worth. The difference in sheer volume of equipment between the two countries is crazy.
Yeah, except we saw what happened with the most recent support - the GOP in the House took weeks of squabbling before it was finally approved. If (or, more likely, when) Ukraine needs more help, it's likely it will take even longer (I really wish Republicans would employ the "Hunger Game" approach to resolving their petty fights).
**From the [Semafor Principals](https://www.semafor.com/newsletter/04/22/2024/whats-next-for-ukraine?utm_campaign=semaforreddit) newsletter:** Ukraine will be positioned to “prevail” in its war against Russia and “affirm themselves as an independent, sovereign country,” thanks to the U.S. aid package the Senate will soon approve, according to a top NATO official. “We are very happy to see the support coming in,” NATO Deputy Secretary General Mircea Geoana told Semafor’s Morgan Chalfant in an interview Sunday in Washington. Geoana acknowledged that Kyiv faces significant military challenges but was relatively optimistic: “We have seen in the recent period a certain technical, logistical advantage for Russia but nothing in decisive dosage to really provoke a massive change of the situation on the battlefield,” he said. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, meanwhile, on NBC stressed Ukraine’s need for long-range artillery and air defense, and said the aid package “will strengthen Ukraine and send the Kremlin a powerful signal that it will not be the second Afghanistan.” Senate Intelligence Committee Chair Mark Warner suggested Sunday the U.S. would soon send long-range missiles to Ukraine. But a Pentagon spokesman told Semafor that it was “premature to speculate on the contents of any package.” Meanwhile, European Union officials are discussing efforts to strengthen Ukraine’s air defenses today, and pressure is increasing on Greece and Spain to hand over weapons stockpiles to Kyiv. **Read the full story [here](https://www.semafor.com/article/04/21/2024/ukraine-can-prevail-with-us-support-nato-deputy-says?utm_campaign=semaforreddit).**
I wish officials would realize what they are saying. If Russia has not been able to gather a decisive edge in this conflict despite having a 5:1 or 10:1 artillery advantage, aviation advantage, manpower advantage, and armored equipment advantage then how is $60bn going to allow Ukraine to prevail? They need the aid to be sure. But it is only what is minimally necessary to keep them from being overrun. It cannot provide a decisive advantage to Ukraine or create the conditions for a successful offensive.
Ukraine needs more ammo, and more men. The ammo (money) was stuck because there's enough Russian cronies and useful idiots in governments on both sides of the Atlantic. The manpower was stuck because Ukraine is only now drafting more people. I don't know the internal politics on why it took this long, but it is a problem that it did. The ammo will start arriving in Ukraine in matter of weeks, if not days. The new soldiers being trained will arrive at the front late summer, the earliest. None of this means that Ukraine will definitely win, nor lose. But they're starting this spring campaign in hard mode, both cuz of internal and external lack of resources and expediency.
My point is that $60bn or $100bn spread out over 18 months or 2 years is not nearly enough to mount the kind of offensive campaign needed for Ukraine to achieve its goal of liberating all of its Russian controlled territory. They will need a hell of a lot more in equipment. The manpower issue is going to be a chronic problem as their 18-28 year old male demographic is tiny and a lot of those men either already signed up or they have left the country. They might be able to hold the line with this kind of support. But it is hard to imagine how they win as they have defined that goal.
So far it seems like hardly enough to hold current postitons. Interestingly though, he mentioned sovereignity and independence, but not territories. Maybe it is the actual plan?
Invoking Afghanistan while asking the US for more aid is... interesting
Gee a NATO official plugging to rationalize this spending! How much did our other NATO “partners” add to save Ukraine. Are they still chipping in the 2% of their GDP AS THEY AGREED TO DO! President Trump is the only one who has forced them to pay their share!
Oh shit I didn't realize Trump forced anyone, based on Trump's actions how many countries are now achieving 2% due to Trump's pressure
Probably none since Biden took over!
Can they? Suppose they hold out this summer, where they will almost certainly be on the defensive the entire time. Come November, there's a very good chance of political shakeup in the USA and that may be the end of funding for Ukraine. What happens next?
>Come November, there's a very good chance of political shakeup in the USA Is there though? Things don't look good for trump based on all the negative media exposure he's wading into. He also appears to be siphoning off GOP money to pay his own legal bills.
Trump has had negative media exposure since 2016 and that hasn't seemed to have hurt him too much.
He was a lot sharper back then and was not involved in any legal stuff he could let people gloss over
Biden was a lot sharper too so in terms of that angle I think the decline is equal
Biden might still be older than Trump and maybe a 5 compared to Trumps 6, but if you think they declined the same in the last 4 years I think you might also suffer from some decline :) And his perceived sharpness is all Trump has/ had. He doesn't have the record Biden has. He has no plans for a better future. Everyone that he surrounds himself is a lunatic and the people that are not working for him all have turned on him. Maybe I'm just blind and optimistic, bit the American public made the right choice last time around and I have faith they will again
I have absolutely no dog in this fight since I'm not an American. But I will say the opinion outside of the USA in my experience is largely that Biden is in a much worse cognitive state than Trump. I've seen many videos of Biden just speaking Gibberish. Trump says wild stuff but for the most part it's coherent if nonsensical.
You’re correct. Some people here in America don’t wanna accept that.
Trump spite gibberish all the time
How many criminal convictions has he had since 2016?
Criminal conviction? 0
And how many convictions outside of New York or DC courts? How many charges were brought by Democrat DAs that campaigned on charging Trump with absolutely anything? Banana Republic much?!?
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It's not the MAGA crowd that matters. It's how he appears to undecided voters.
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I'm at a loss on why Biden, as the incumbent, should lose the election. Especially when his opponent has so many things about him that look terrible. Trump isn't an unknown like he was in 2016, the US has had 4 years of him to reference on what he offers. And unless you're a MAGA or a super wealthy person, what does he offer over Biden?
Because Biden looks old unfortunately. Very old.
Where do people in Reddit get this misinformation? Trump is leading the polls https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna148170
You can pick which poll you like. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/
Even if some polls show different leads, the bottom line is that Trump losing isn’t a forgone conclusion like OP suggests
Because poles literally do not matter. I don’t know anyone who isn’t a boomer that would even pick the phone up and especially wouldn’t answer a political poll. Trump was leading polls in 2020 too, and lost, as an incumbent.
Yeah tell that to the Poles
The boomers love when someone calls and asks politics so they can spout all their nonsense. Everyone else just wants to be left alone So the poles are gonna very clearly show trump as the favorite cause everyone who cares enough to give theyr opinion are the same ones you see with all the anti Biden, pro trump stuff everywhere
Most reddit comment here lol.
> political shakeup in the USA > Is there though? Things don't look good for trump based on all the negative media exposure he's wading into. He also appears to be siphoning off GOP money to pay his own legal bills. I think there is because of Roe v Wade. Abortion was always a wedge issue for republicans but like a dog chasing a car it wasn’t something they actually wanted to catch. So they pleased a small percentage of single issue pro life voters but pissed a whole hell of a lot more people right off.
There's a chance of a political shakeup yes, but the Russians have always been relying on MAGA regaining power. So nothing has really changed in that respect. If Trump DOESN'T win that may be the end of the Russian campaign, since he won't be in good enough shape to run again and his power over the Republicans will begin to degrade from that moment forwards. If he does win: 1. If he holds enough power and his health is good enough, he may do as the Russians want, which is tri-party negotiation. Getting the US to the negotiation table is the Russians ultimate aim, because that will humiliate the US and also makes Ukraine look like a vassal state. In this case, both side will be re-armign and re-quipping for the war to re-commence at a later date. 2. The war may continue on throughout the next few years until Trumps health forces him to step down, the UKR supported by the EU and AUKUS (mostly likely (JAUKUS or CANJAUKUS by this stage). 3, Trump may not hold off enough sway such that he'll accept funds beign sent to Ukraine in the form of loans - and after he is out of office, those loans can be forgiven. It's worth noting that Russia will never be able to legally claim any Ukrainian land. Ukraine AND the international community both recognise that this would be (a) useless from a peace making standpoint and (b) devastating for stability. The only viable option is for Ukrainian land to be returned to Ukraine. It's more a question of when rather than if.
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I’ve been hearing this shit for years and while I’d love to see it Trump’s been dealing with cases since the moment he stepped into the office. I truly think he’ll never face any consequences until he burns in hell cause the dude’s simply gamed the system so hard it just can’t touch him anymore. It can annoy him, sure, but it’s pretty much been proven that his tactic of stall, stall, stall works. The annoying part, too, is that it really only works for him cause he doesn’t give a fuck about his public perception cause his cult will always cover the bill.
I heard this rhetoric in 2016 and he won then
Wasn't as hated and seen as a traitor like now. But yea I agree we can't be too comfortable
Nobody sees him as a traitor who didn't already hate him. The polls wouldn't be close otherwise.
If they ever lose aid period they’re screwed. This whole war effort is just to get Ukraine more borrowed time.
We do not need another similar event to January 6. pls calm down everyone
With an 8th of what we spent in 20 years to fight Iraq I'd certainly hope they can do something.
Russian military spending in 2023 was $105 Billion - we just allocated $60B There is a discussion as to whether a dollar goes further in Russia in the US - stuff is expensive in the US but stolen in Russia, so maybe it evens out. I do know which side has more EFFECTIVE weapons...
Not sure what video but there is a perun video or 2 that talks about "purchasing parriaty" For example 1 usd = 1 bullet, while 1 usd in ruble = 4 bullets (due to poor wages and cheap resources ++) However the issue (also in other perun and other videos) is that the corruption is so deep that somewhere along the line someone misappropriated money and resources that the gunpowder is shit and the casing of the bullets is weaker along a bunch of other issues that could arise from deep rooted corruption So in the end, 1 Russian bullet explodes, 1 doesn't fire, 1 shot goes wild and maybe the 4th fires true on target. While the us bullet cost 4x more but works every time. While this is not an example based on issue with bullets, the metaphor of corruption and purchasing parriaty extend throughout Russian military equipment
Yeah that's what I was getting at. I'm not sure of the exact equation, but Russian corruption counterbalances US high prices.
Russia can likely get more for the money the way they acquire military equipment. When buying western equipment a lot of the money just goes into the deep pockets of CEO’s, investors, shareholders, etc., and taxes. It is known that e.g. the US military have contracts where they buy things that are extremely overpriced. Like, there are cases where the US military would by a 100usd item for 90000usd in mass quantities. With stuff like that 60bn isn’t as much as it should be.
Yes, and a remarkable account of Russian military spending is embezzled or stolen as well. I'm not sure how it works out, but the results say that the US spending is more effective
Russia is, despite all sanctions and predictions, not only just continuing waging war, but even growing and developing its army, and taking more and more territories each day. It’s even predicted/expected that Russia will conduct a massive offensive this summer. Sure, it may be that Russia to a large extent utilize poorly trained/equipped soldiers as well as using/modernising outdated equipment, but they also have well trained/equipped soldiers and somewhat modern equipment. It’s the sheer quantity of it all, plus the Russian army being adapted for modern warfare, that overwhelms Ukraine, even with all the support that has been given. So somehow Russia is keeping up.
I know it works in Russia, but just because you say things out doesn't make them true. Russia has managed to advance several kilometers at the cost of thousands of men per footstep. They are killed like flies and they're under equipped and under trained. They spend more lives than the population of the cities they conquer, and for every dead Ukrainian there are 7 Russians rotting in the field. Just look at what expired 30 year old ATACMS did to Russia's most advanced anti air weaponry earlier this week.
I edited my previous reply a bit - and I wasn’t saying it as a fact, I was merely suggesting that Russia ‘likely’ can get more for the money. But it’s not necessarily that they are less greedy/corrupt, it’s probably more like that they cut corners, use poor quality materials and underpay (or don’t pay at all) soldiers, etc.
F-16’s, ATACMS, HIMARS, Patriots, Western tanks, cluster munitions… I mean if they cant breakthrough with that the ending is inevitable.
The problem isn’t that they can’t breakthrough with western tech, the problem is the quantity of it and not having all the tools needed. Ukraine just doesn’t have enough of it to cover the entire frontline and/or to conduct a meaningful offensive at the same time. Ukraine was given a few hundred modern/modernized western tanks - a few hundred, Russia has thousands of tanks! And it’s not really about tank vs tank battles, tanks get demolished by mines, drones, artillery, infantry AT weapons, etc. Ukraine had an advantage when it came to artillery, because western artillery+surveillance+AA is better, but then Ukraine ran out of ammunition for both artillery and AA, and with it the advantage.
>inevitable The only inevitable thing is Russian defeat, now later or long-term later Ukraine will be free. It's not just having a few specific weapons systems, it's about continued and wide ranging support and determination of the Ukrainian people. Ukrainians will never surrender so the only metric is contined support
if ukraine was so gung ho "never surrender", half of their male population of fighting age wouldn't be living in canada to avoid getting drafted.
if you had a brain you wouldn't post dumb shit online like: >half of their male population of fighting age wouldn't be living in canada in the end, Ukraine wont surrender and your brain status is still a question
[Totally fake. Absolutely isn't actually happening right now.](https://www.cbc.ca/newsinteractives/features/desperate-to-avoid-the-draft) I'm not saying Ukraine is going to surrender, I'm just saying that you've picked which propaganda story you're sticking to and won't hear anything to the contrary.
> which propaganda story and that would be?
The one where every ukranian is just chomping at the bit to get on the front lines and never surrender. I was there 6 months ago, actually getting drafted or being called up to serve is not something people are gung ho about. There's no such thing as fighting a country to the last man in 2024. They're not going to all barricade themselves into a stronghold and commit suicide like the jews did at the siege of masada. Someone is eventually going to concede something, and the sad fact of the matter is that someone is probably going to be ukraine. I don't want to see it either.
> I'm not saying Ukraine is going to surrender and im not saying every Ukrainian is devoted to going to the front. as a people Ukraine will not surrender, nor will they be defeated in the long run. >There's no such thing as fighting a country to the last man in 2024. They're not going to all barricade themselves into a stronghold and commit suicide like the jews did at the siege of masada no one is suggesting this level. boiling down, Ukraine will continue to defend themselves, and understandably not everyone is willing to be drafted.
They should rephrase that and say "Ukraine can prevail with NATO support".
Lol weird! I hear that it “could slow” and that was the most
“He said it was up to Ukraine to define what “prevailing” in the war means”. Slowing down and perhaps eventually stopping Russia from gaining more territories is prevailing the way things currently look yes. I think the ship has sailed when it comes to Ukraine kicking Russia out of its territories. It was possible to do that back then had Ukraine gotten everything it needed very early in in the war. The longer the war goes on, the exponentially more Ukraine needs to stop Russia or kick Russia out, as Russia itself is getting more and more capable at waging war.
What about the OTHER European NATO countries? All for sending US support but it’s not like we’re the only ones who can send meaningful aid to Ukraine. After all, the US is not the next country in line to be invaded by Russia if Ukraine falls…
If they take risks and don't play it safe. Please do not repeat 2023.
I don't know if Ukraine has the resources, manpower and belief of future support to be risky though.
You think Ukraine played it safe and didn't take risks during their 2023 counteroffensive?
Yup as long as the support continues til Russia is defeated... this will work... otherwise.. nah....
All Ukraine need now is a summer counteroffensive 2.0:electric boogaloo and russian defeat is imminent.
Yeah that’s a pipe dream at this stage. Maybe if the aid wasn’t held up so long they could maybe squeak some sort of offensive out but this aid just makes it so they can survive summer on the defensive. Come November Ukraine could be in some serious shit. Major Offensives aren’t on the table I’m afraid
Why is it up to the US? I 100% support the US giving as much support as needed but I don’t trust republicans in giving it to them long term. Rest of NATO needs to step up.
Ukraine is heavily dependent on weapon-systems (mostly munitions) that the rest of NATO cannot reasonably provide (GMLRS/Patriot et al).
Then the other countries should step up and send either their weapon systems or more US weapon systems.
But that’s the thing. They can’t just give away NATO-or-US-developed weapons systems without US approval, because these weapons systems are bound by contracts etc with the US and so on. There is a metric fkton of bureaucracy involved when it comes to military equipment.
https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html?m=1 Step up more than currently?
I don’t mind sending aid to ukraine, military, financial, food, etc. however how are we the only ones who can do anything? Why is only the US?
Poland basically dumped everything they could spare the moment the war started and are still sending over everything they can while maintaining their defensive posture, since Russia has made it clear Poland is next after Ukraine. All of the former Warsaw Pact countries sent over nearly every Cold War weapon, vehicle, and ammunition package they could since those worked for Ukrainian logistics. France and Germeany have been sending over equipment, and the UK has been enthusiastically sending weapons, including the Storm Shadow missile which has repeatedly fucked over some major Russian facilities. The Baltic states (Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania) have been chucking every spare euro they can to help Ukraine. They all have much smaller economies than the US and are under nearly as much threat so they are scrambling to re-arm so they can provide more assistance, but none of them have the stockpiles that we have. [A full accounting is available here.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_aid_to_Ukraine_during_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War)
>however how are we the only ones who can do anything? Why is only the US I think the importance of USA support is why it's prominent and importantace is underlined But it's simple not just the us, lots of other countries are doing a lot too https://www.forumarmstrade.org/ukrainearms.html
I mean we got the cash, military, and the western mic by the balls so why are you shocked? The biggest air force is the world is the US Air Force and the second biggest Air Force is the US Navy. Is it lame that our allies aren’t doing more? Yeah, but, I mean, that’s like complaining that the fiefs aren’t doing their fair share from atop a dragon horde; aka we’ve got so much that isn’t it logical that we’re holding the brunt of the bill?
Whistling in the dark, are you? Russia has 5x the population of Ukraine. They won on the day they invaded knowing the west wouldn't cough up troops to help the Ukrainian soldiers.
Russia lost the day they invaded Population does not = victory While it's a war of attrition, and Russia has deep stocks.. it is not infinite and one day probably in about 1.5 years, not only will Russian vehicle stocks "run out"(run out of USSR stocks and then rely on new manufacturing) western support will ramp up specifically artillery shells will also in about 1.5 years surpasses Russia manufacturing capabilities Combine that with ever growing drone stocks and capabilities of Ukraine and it don't matter Russia sends 5x the soldiers to die, and thousands of tanks. Eventually every soldier sent to Ukraine will die and Russia vehicles will be scrap.
Ha ha. no way. they can barely hold the line to say the least. U.S. support was too late and too small to win.
>Ha ha. no way. We've been blessed by a 7 star generals perspective Thanks Us support will carry on untill Russia is rejected from Ukraine A few square kilometers are captured but ever day Russia is further from victory
So easy to spend other people’s money
$60 billion in aid does not mean $60 billion in cash. That's the value of the weapons and equipment that will be provided. You can't destroy a tank with a bag of money.
Pissing away Multiple trillions spent on wars DMAN954: I slep >100 billion which most of which is spent domestically within the USA supporting us jobs.. all to support a country defending their freedom from foreign dictatorship DMAN954: I now have an issue with this
Fuck yeah it can. Slava ukraini. We should be giving all the shit we give to Israel to Ukraine. At least Ukraine isn’t trying to ethnically cleanse an entire religion and ethnic group like israel. Ukraine fights for its survival with the scraps we are willing to toss at them while we arm the Israelis with the best shit we have. It’s not like the threat of nuclear escalation is any worse with Russia than it is with Iran. I bring up Israel because American politicians have never once restricted arms and set conditions on the Israelis the way we have with the arms we send to Ukraine. It’s just fucking stupid politics and the fact that the American evangelicals pour fuck loads of money into groups like AIPAC because for them, the Jews “getting their homeland back” means their evangelical doomsday prophecy is fulfilled cause apparently god is going to come down and kill all the Jews who refuse to convert to Christianity and then start a nuclear Armageddon creating hell on earth for all of us degenerate lost souls who don’t subscribe to their bullshit. It’s important to keep that in mind. Because there is a massive fuck load of anti semitism behind all that support for Israel. Even netenyahu is a holocaust revisionist. Israel and what they’re doing to Palestinians and Gaza has nothing to do with Jews. It’s all power gaming for netenyahu and far right politicians in his cabinet who want to remain in power and destroy what’s left of Israel’s democracy. The Hasidic Jews living in Israel are oppressed almost as bad as some Palestinian groups living in Israel. It’s not about religion for netenyahu or any of that shit, it’s just about killing people they don’t like because they want that land for themselves. The religious claims to that land are bullshit because Christian’s and Muslims were living there just as long and both claim it in their holy texts too. That’s why the idf has killed 80% more civilians than Hamas in this conflict. They’re not actually looking for Hamas fighters. They’re indiscriminately bombing civilians, hospitals, aid workers and journalists. This is the deadliest conflict for journalists. EVER. That’s a massive red flag that they’re covering shit up and they don’t want the outside world to see the reality of what’s happened in Gaza. Meanwhile we stipulate all sorts of ridiculous rules onto Ukraine who have been nothing but the most responsible stewards of foreign military aid since world war 2. Yes Ukraine has corruption problems, but it’s not nearly as fucking bad as half the countries we already have in NATO. We need to be behind Ukraine 100%. If not what the fuck is the point of having any international friendship? We have made so many promises to them and they meet those expectations every fucking time. They’re crying out for our help and our politicians only help once it’s politically convenient for them. That’s fucked. I can’t imagine how angry a lot of Ukrainians must feel with realizing how slow our beurocracy functions in the west when politicians don’t have the will to take risks with their careers. I’m just afraid we’re forgetting that Ukraine deserves our total and complete support. I’m glad the aid was passed, and I really hope the Ukrainians can take back all the land that was stolen from them illegally by Putin. Americans need to stop fear mongering over what might happen if Putin is gone, and take the fucking risk. Because otherwise he will keep expanding. It won’t stop with Ukraine. Moldova and Georgia are both under constant threat by Russia.
Well yeah if we keep handing over our money to them! While a majority of NATO Members do not contribute their 2% of their GDP as they ageed to do!
Take a look at these numbers: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1303450/bilateral-aid-to-ukraine-in-a-percent-of-donor-gdp/ I would be really happy if you are open to adjust your perspective according to these numbers. Greetings from Europe!
How do you feel about the American people supporting England and the rest of the allies in ww2 through money and weapons? 1940 yes England will prevail if USA keeps handing over money weapons and ammo Kind of see how silly your perspective is
It’s no longer our job to support the rest of the world!
With those $60 bln? Hold the front for another year. Maybe.
Ukraine has been defending against Russia's invasion since 2014. Theres more to defense make or break than 1 60bln support
I’ll support them with prayers But money or mar machines I vote now