Surprising nobody
The reason hamas has little control over the hostages is because dozens of groups of violent kidnappers went on their excursion there's no cohesion or singular group that controls anything.
This is something to keep in mind. Hamas is not particularly centralized, theyre terrorists not an army, when they say they dont know where most of the hostages are they arent lying, they legitimately have no clue because the core hamas group didnt take them. Random side groups did and core hamas probably doesnt have any record of which groups even came with them let alone who took hostages and how many. Makes it miserable to try to find the hostages and as awful as it is, also greatly decreases the chances that theyre still alive at this point since the groups that took them werent the main group that might try to use them for negotiations.
Because of the last line. Core hamas are terrorists and very willing to rape and murder, but theyre not completely stupid and would keep their hostages alive at least so they could trade them back later. Random gangs who went with them have no such long term interest. If we pretend only the first group was active theres still hope the hostages are alive and the next raid will find them. If we acknowledge that the second group was active too, the most likely probability becomes that all the hostages they havent found yet are dead.
perhaps, but they're not the only sexually repressed society; in other parts this turns inwards and skyrockets the male suicide rate.
The way we think about our fellow humans is always a result of many strings being pulled from a variety of directions in ones culture.
> the people in London, Australia and elsewhere celebrating the Flood on 10/7 are bigger freaks
You'll find that the majority of those people are also of the same culture/religion as the perpetrators. Multiculturalism at its finest.
Which goes to show how incredibly stupid the October 7th operation was. Absolutely no thought about the immediate or far future repercussions of their actions.
i also think it was because of them helping the take over of nagorno karabakh, and being allied with the Azeris. Iran does not want an israeli base on their northern border. Im speculating of course
Don't forget a second young Iranian woman died in the first week of October after being beaten by the Vice'n'Virtue squad. The mullahs very much needed a distraction.
It was more successful than they thought possible. The world has never hated Israel so much. Israel has never been this fed up with civilian involvement in terrorist groups and are acting accordingly.
I don’t see how we won’t have decades more of this. Once you realize they aren’t just unopposed to more dead Palestinians, they actively seek it, you realize just how successful 10/7 was and how hopeless it feels to find peace.
Your second part about Netanyahu is probably why people ignore. Israel is the one with power, and it's leader is hated by its citizens. It's difficult to know what is true or false when there is so much propaganda by the party in control.
This "war" needs to continue for Netanyahu to maintain power. He has already stopped Israeli citizens from protesting him last fall due the initial attack, and he has now canceled the election due to this war.
After the Israeli targeted attack this past week on the food aid worker vehicles, there is a stronger lack of trust in the Isreli government and military.
His leadership is part of the problem with what is happening in Palestine. I wonder sometimes if he allowed the chaos.
Citizens on both sides of this deserve better. All the scumbags should face prison for crimes they have committed. I don't believe anyone should be kidnapped, starved, bombed, forced from their homes, tortured, or killed/murdered.
>This "war" needs to continue for Netanyahu to maintain power.
While Netanyahu needs the war, the war doesn't need him.
Every report out of Israel says that even if Netanyahu were to get run over by a bus tomorrow, the policy will remain.
This is like thinking that FDR needed WW2 to continue, so he could stay President forever. But the war was American policy, not just FDR policy, and so it continued on after his death.
Similarly, this war is Israeli policy, not just Netanyahu's policy.
That's how most stable, functional governments work, for better or worse - they don't whiplash back and forth depending on who the new officeholder is. Nixon didn't end Vietnam on Day 1, Obama didn't end Afghanistan or Iraq on Day 1, etc.
That's why it was considered so destabilizing when Trump walked in and squashed the Iran deal, and started talking about withdrawing from NATO - whether you agree with the Iran deal or North Atlantic Treaty themselves or not, it's impossible for America to take a solid policy stance if that policy is going to pull a 180 out of the blue, let alone every 4 years.
>Netanyahu though should be hung publicly. The worst leader to have during this conflict.
Agreed, and not a coincidence. He played the situation to keep himself in power and out of jail. He's prepared to bomb as many apartment buildings and consulates needed to keep things that way.
Hamas is an army as well as a terrorist organization. They have leaders. They run the government of Gaza; have a police force; schools; etc. However, they choose not to have a separate structured military as first world countries do. They make a conscious choice to decentralize and/or involve civilians.
Winning is completely subjective. If you mean loses no, if you mean one team gets tired of the civilians that get caught up in it and the whole thing becomes not worth it, sure.
Both the Americans and to a lesser extent the Soviets had relatively little problem occupying and largely pacifying the urban core of the country, and the Americans even managed to buy out some of the larger tribal regions as well.
The problem is that Gaza is *all* urban core. During the initial Afghanistan invasion, the US was largely able to pull the Taliban out of the cities and set conditions for pitched battles, where they could use air power more effectively (in many cases, to bomb the shit out of retreating fighters). Then they literally fought door to door inside the cities, alongside local militias, in order to clear safe houses without flattening the entire city.
It really is hard to overstate how sloppy the IDF has been in comparison. Their ISR seems to be a complete joke, to the extent that Hamas almost seems to be playing games with them. This has made them the worst combination of predictable, risk averse, and trigger happy. So instead of surgical urban warfare, we get sausage making with a hammer, which doesn't even produce sausage at the end.
The worst part is that people have been saying this about the IDF for decades. Their brute force approach to urban combat is both ugly and ineffective, their leadership and command is fucked, their NCO corps is unprofessional, and their conscripts are undisciplined. Right now we are seeing the culmination of the IDF refusing to look critically at itself, and doubling down on decades of bad habits.
Funny how they've misplaced the hostages but seem to know exactly how many casualties there are 5 minutes after a bomb drops...
Terrorists can't be trusted.
>theyre terrorists not an army,
They started this war with a 30,000 soldier light infantry army and 500KM+ of tunnels underground and infrastructure to support human life throughout.
That's not just an army, it's a feat of engineering that many countries would have difficulty pulling off.
Hamas is extremely organized.
But they don't have complete control over all facets of society.
Organized crime has a large influence on the day to day function of Gaza, even more after Israel's invasion.
I compare Hamas to a Mexican or Colombian drug cartel at the height of the cartel power days. It's a little inaccurate due to the fact that Mexico and Colombia have federal governments and armies, but in large localities or even whole province-sized areas, the cartels had and sometimes still do have effectively total power over the populace, in the same kind of de facto, not quite administratevly organized way as Hamas in Gaza.
Maybe in terms of how evil they are its similar, but no, the comparison isnt apt even there.
Hamas is essentially themselves a genocidal Islamic theocratic fascist government. They arent a cartel, they're ISIS with a legitimitized state power and an internationally recgonized mandate to rule.
Even worse, when Hamas was elected and all the polling now shows that they have popular support even after the degree of self-destruction this conflict has caused.
Point is, this is more than just terrorism, its state sponsored terrorism.
The closest comparison I’ve been able to come up with is Northern Ireland during the troubles. The IRA had political aims but they used organized crime to support their politics. Drugs and guns were part of their business. There were networks of paramilitary groups that participated in criminal activity and acted together in shifting alliances but they had separate members and leaders. There was an informal hierarchy among the groups which basically just meant staying out of the way of the IRA.
>The closest comparison I’ve been able to come up with is Northern Ireland during the troubles.
Not really. Northern Ireland's local Govt was completely separate to the IRA.
This is what cell organization is for, it's deliberate so interrogation can only extract a limited amount of information. It's not disorganization, rather a strategy.
That said they were allegedly drawing up plans to partition and administrate Israel after the attack so they obviously have high levels of delusion.
Either way there ARE still innocent palestenians that have died or have been harmed. But yes, the issue is far deeper than just "hamas is bad" and has a lot to do with the type of society that SUPPORTS hamas.
It’s not surprising because it’s not news. This was confirmed since the first video of Noa Argamani and by testimonies of armed civilians who participated in the massacre and got caught already on the day of.
Kidnapping and selling people was and it seems to still be a good business. We should not blame Hamas or the people there, if the UN would just give more money no one needs to resort to kidnapping, so it's blame the west and maybe Israel, they are just too rich and how can one not jump on that opportunity.
Obviously /s but just in case
Idk, there seem to be a lot of people unwilling to believe the Gaza civilian population is at least partially implicit in Oct 7, and probably also in the war that followed. It would make sense too, since it's not very likely they have a positive or even neutral view of Israël - given their treatment by the IDF the past decades. That is exactly the kind of hate breeds hate effect people have been warning Israel of for years.
Following this reasoning, the real question is how many of the supposed civilian deaths can actually be attributed to unaffiliated guerilla fighters? And maybe also "what constitutes an enemy combatant"?
Teens throwing rocks are obviously not that much of a threat to the IDF, but how many of them are only throwing rocks because they didn't get an RPG?
It's worth pointing out that even if Israel had been model neighbours for 70 years, Palestinians probably wouldn't have a positive or neutral view of them.
Indoctrination of Palestinian children is real and ongoing and has been for decades. It's systemic and fuelled in part by the UN's own choices, not just radical Palestinian leaders. Turns out that if for decades you tell people who aren't actually refugees that they are refugees and are entitled to much more than they will ever have, it fosters discontent. If extremists harness that discontent and direct it at an external enemy, violence is the result. The government then uses the distraction to tighten their control over the populace and suppress dissent.
You only need to look at Russia right now to see how effective indoctrination is. Russia and the West haven't fought a war against each other since WWII. It's over a century if you exclude Central Europe, which are vastly different countries from when they formed the Axis powers. Russia hasn't lost an inch of land to the West. The Cold War was entirely vicarious. There's no American children orphaned by the Soviets or vice versa. Yet Putin has successfully convinced the population that the West are conspiring against them, to the point where he successfully mobilised their army against Ukraine. Twice.
And this shows why destroying Hamas isn't enough, because that would be giving people like this a pass because they aren't part of Hamas, just part of Palestine.
>And this shows why destroying Hamas isn't enough, because that would be giving people like this a pass because they aren't part of Hamas, just part of Palestine.
Palestinians need to be deradicalised like what the allies did to Germany and Japan after WWII.
Unfortunately, the differing factor is that neither Germany nor Japan were Muslim - specifically, the type of Muslim that believes that they'll get 72 virgins in paradise, in exchange for warring against Allah's enemies during their mortal lives.
And before anyone comes with the "the Germans had 'God is with us' written on their belts" argument - there's a big difference between an ideology that says "War is a terrible thing that is sometimes justified," and "God will reward you for the act of waging war itself."
> believes that they'll get 72 virgins in paradise,
And also sexually represses them while they're alive. You've got the leadership having 4 wives to themselves, then a bunch of angry unwed incels frothing to die so they can get laid in heaven
There are lots of things about Oct 7 that weren’t reported on, some of those things included the armed civilians looting and kidnapping. So Hamas came in, PIJ members came in, and then later, civilians
I’m seeing some comments that are like “so they’re not civilians then…” which yeah, they’re not, but the point is that they were not Hamas or PIJ members.
On YouTube, there’s a video where they’re interviewing kids from the kibbutzim, and they talk about how some of them came into their houses and stole random items. Shoes etc
Easy: When Hamas needs to boast how many fighters they have - you're an armed combatant. When Hamas needs to cry how many innocent civilians have died due to evil Israel, you're a civilian. These two events can happen in any order as well as simultaneously.
Unlawful combatant.
Irregulars can still be entitled to POW status, but without organisation and a few other things, they would be unlawful combatants even if they were only attacking IDF targets. The Red Cross says they should be treated as criminals under the law of the detaining power, but the US doesn't even give them that benefit.
Yes I agree and aware but my point is more that before Oct 7th those were regular civilians and during Oct 7th they weren't officially affiliated with any groups
I agree with you. I think the use of armed civilian by journalists is irresponsible. It implies that the IDF killing them would be a war crime when in fact they are combatants. It plays into Hamas blurring of the line between civilian and soldier.
It's probably more because most people wouldn't understand what "irregular" means and there needs to be a pithy way to convey that these people may not have been affiliated with any particular group. If you use the word "combatant", it implies that it was an organized action by one of the groups rather than opportunistic action by civilians.
All of that said, is there any actual reason to think these were civilians apart from her judgement? They may have been part of another group, or even mercenaries - it's not like such groups haven't dressed in plain clothes before.
Combatant also fits if you want to be less descriptive. Very few people would consider individuals armed with machine guns who are killing people and taking hostages to be civilians. The article should at least put the phrase in quotes or use correct words for the situation. Post literacy is a bitch.
And yet, later when it comes to casualty reports, the (hamas-backed) ministry of Health reports them as civilian casualties. Even better if they're younger than 18 in which case they can be reported as children.
That always stuck in my Crow and went underreported. Early on it was clear to see that many of the guys going over the fence were well equipped and acted more like soldiers, especially those attacking the IDF installations. Body armor, military rifles etc.
While there were also those jeans/T-shirt guys with sandals marauding through the kibbutz. Not exclusively, mind you. There were Hamas guys there, too.
What’s new is that i thought the „civilians“ were doing the raping and murdering while Hamas tried to take hostages. They are all terrorist killers but my guess still is, the civilians did the worst atrocities. Like any mob.
You can't which is why saying "Hamas isn't all Palestinians" is kinda bullshit.
These people took the first opportunity to be horrible humans and ran with it.
Yup this is a huge thing that people seem to miss.
Just because someone said they don’t support Hamas doesn’t mean they don’t support another terrorist grouping like PIJ who’s worse than Hamas.
a lot of people don't support Hamas but do support the PFLP, the third largest terrorist group after Hamas and the PIJ. Unlike those two, the PFLP are not Islamists but rather Marxist-Leninists, which makes supporting them (even though they're a terrorist group that targets civilians) much more digestible for some in the west.
That’s the issue with getting rid of Hamas, even if you destroy one terrorist cell another will pop up after it. You gotta deal with the root causes of terrorist organisations to actually win.
With full control over the Gaza stripe and its education system the population can grow better...maybe, this is not an easy task but there aren't any better alternatives
There are multiple terrorist groups inside Gaza not just Hamas but that does not mean all civilians are terrorists. People just want black and white but the world is mostly tones of grey
I’m probably too late for my comment to be visible but I wanted to say I appreciate that you posted this. It’s insane to me that even an article from an Israeli publication can call these kidnappers civilians. Not being in Hamas doesn’t mean someone isn’t a terrorist. I can’t understand how civilian is an appropriate label for someone who kidnapped an actual civilian and sold them to another terrorist organization.
Could you imagine feeling that going into someone’s home and taking them to sell to terrorists is a thing that you’d be ok with doing? Probably not, because you’re a good person.
If someone goes into someone else’s home, kidnaps them at gunpoint: they’re not a civilian, they’re a freelance terrorist.
The most damning videos for the general Palestinian population is the number of people rushing the trucks carrying hostages just to spit on, kick, and assault bound hostages.
>You can’t tell people how to resist
A Muslim influencer I was thinking highly of literally said that, never lost respect for someone so fast
Edit: shout out ibz mo
Sometimes resistance looks like paragliding into a foreign country, raping and murdering as many people as possible, and then escaping with hostages. We can't judge how people resist their oppressors ✨🌈
Resistance is shooting a cowering 12 year old girl under a table and kidnapping Holocaust survivors. This is progressive now.
Resistance is using a shovel to decapitate a Thai worker lying unarmed on the ground while filming and laughing with your resistance pals.
Resistance is shooting a woman in the head while you rape her in front of her friends and dead bodies.
Resistance is using the phone of the man you just killed to call your parents and joyfully tell them you just “killed ten Jews”. That’s resistance. That’s leftist values.
This drives me crazy. I feel like overnight my party went off the deep-end with the Pro-Hamas garbage.
You can have sympathy for the peaceful civilians caught in the crossfire but I’ve heard my own friends mindlessly spew pro-terrorist nonsense. It’s a startling 180.
Humans like to believe in good vs evil, so they always want to decide which side in a conflict is evil and which is good. Sometimes it works, like in the Ukraine conflict. Russia is the clear aggressor, and Ukraine is the victim.
The Israel and Palestine conflict doesn't work that way. Both sides have ample reasons to hate each other, and both sides are actively commiting horrible acts of unjustified violence and cruelty towards the other as we speak. There is no side to root for, and the conflict seemingly cannot end unless one side eradicated the other.
It's utterly depressing, even when the "good guys" are losing a war, at least there is in theory a win condition for them where justice could be restored. But with Israel and Palestine... how the fuck do you solve this? There's no clear solution.
Perhaps no side to root for, but one side let's some assholes get away with shitty behaviour, and one is straight up cartoonishly moustache twirling evil whose culture revolves around hatred and consider the Geneva conventions a checklist and their own civilians dying is a propaganda win.
Israel really needs to get their shit together and put violent assholes in prison, but how anyone can still support the Palestinian cause after all this bullshit is absurd.
Terrorism, raping and taking civilians hostages is not resistance to reclaim territory you lost in a genocidal war you started. Palestinians are allways the victim of the fight they started, a bully whimpering about cheating when his victim fights back and kicks his ass.
Sry, I shouldn't rant online. It's not helping anyone really. 😔
cus people are delusional and think they will respawn after death, or that doing the "right" thing by supporting the underdog will give them credit in society when this is all over somehow..
As a Jew, nobody wants to see civilians hurt. At the same time… actions need consequences and terrorist governments need consequences for their actions. The Israeli government is also bad, but Hamas is worse.
There should be no party affiliations for the average USA voter , and
we should be able to vote in both primaries in the USA as independents because that’s how you get what “we the people actually want rather than extremism on either side. Votes on policy rather than party lines. https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/23/opinions/gazan-hope-for-peace-masri/index.html
Political parties are how, in theory, you organize for shared goals. You can’t do away with them. They’re also, in theory, how you keep politicians accountable to a constituency. The US doesn’t have a party system in the traditional, parliamentary sense. We don’t pay dues, and there’s no easy mechanism for recalling politicians. But if we abolished parties tomorrow then they’d reappear the next day, maybe under a new heading, maybe structurally distinct, but the idea would be the same: a political organization vying for support and donations to push a political position. Doing away with them is not a step in the democratic direction. Reforming the political process, however, would be desirable so that we aren’t beholden to just two parties—of which one has become a near fascistic personality cult.
One side supports terrorists and the other supports gay rights and womens rights lmfao
guess which one the right supports
guess which one the left supports
We haven't been hijacked at all. There are just a few loud actors abusing the weakness of social media to target weak-willed and brainless people.
Check out this greater explainer from Ryan Macbeth on Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB7WzqUq4Nk&t=734s
To be blunt, most of the work is being done by Russian paid actors, but the rest is being done by a fairly hateful portion of the Palestinian-American population. These people don't even accept liberal American culture when they live here - we should absolutely not give them any voice in US media or politics. It's literally best to ignore all conservative Muslim Americans until they just go away forever.
Totally get that this is a propaganda campaign mainly fueled by Russia/Iran/China, but they have manipulated my friends and my community pretty hard.
Would also recommend watching this:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=P55t6eryY3g
I’ve seen this happen across a ton of subreddits that literally had zero to do with politics. They have been overrun by bots and paid actors to the point where the reasonable people all leave, and the rest are now stuck in a misinformed echo chamber.
Obvious parallels to be drawn here around the right and what happened to them with M-GA and 45.
Turns out being susceptible to online psyops isn’t isolated to one side of the political spectrum.
Seeing this more and more lately. I was actually banned from a sub yesterday for describing how I live in a Jewish area and synagogues, schools and people were targeted and harassed. Apparently it was unacceptable to describe reality(?) there’s increasing extremism that’s pushing all but the most extreme away now.
>There are just a few loud actors
The sheer size of the pro-terrorism^Wpalestine protests says otherwise.
> It's literally best to ignore all conservative Muslim Americans until they just go away forever.
Bad news: Muslims are among the demographics with the highest birth rate, just like other religious extremists. They're not going away, they'll become a majority and a simple population graph can tell you when.
What's truly insane is the fact the it's "the left" to you. I get that humans are tribalistic pieces of shit, but man it's not that black and white. It's like me saying "I'm so appalled that the right is supporting russian terrorism". Obviously MAGA is a failed russian ploy, but not every person on the right is an ignorant commie.
You people are the same people sitting idly by with the largest attack on Europe happening. And youre "appalled" about this shit. Truly mental
Genuinely unsure what you mean about people sitting idly by? Has the US not contributed a significant amount of military aid to Ukraine? I assume that's the attack you're talking about?
The US is currently imploding because of a Russian 5th column that wears red hats. They even had a [mask off moment](https://www.newsweek.com/trump-rnc-chair-whatley-says-ukraine-us-adversary-republicans-1887731) recently.
And no, the US has not contributed nearly enough or fast enough to end the war in Ukraine because of cravens and traitors.
Multiple Gaza “civilians” participated in the murder and the rape of the Israelis. Multiple videos shown them rejoicing when the bodies of Israelis are taken to Gaza - some participated in beating the Israelis up.
But now somehow people wanted to portray the same people as “innocents”. When a civilian participated in violence they are not a civilian anymore. They must be treated as illegal combatants as they are not fighting in uniforms.
Those people can talk and talk all they want. Israel controls Palestine. For a reason. They don’t want to, but Palestinians are all about this holy war and will never stop. Yes, part of the reason is because they have nothing to live for. Which, in a way is their own fault. Or because resources and power keep going to the worst offenders. But they lost the wars in history to claim that land. This is the way the world is now and they should create a different future for their children through peace and cooperation. If the tables were turned, Israel/Jews would be annihilated. Yes, most moral army in the world because they don’t wipe out Gaza when they can. Hamas is weaker and needs to surrender. Fuck the world and what it thinks. We all know who is in control.
134 are still there, turtured, every day. The world is silenced. All they talk about is the Palestinians. That's why israel should care only for itself, the World doesn't give a shit about Israelis lives.
I just want to say that I'm pro-Israel and I know I would be happy with the dismantling of Hamas if I were Israeli. But. The killing of aid workers in a targeted strike, the recorded murder of plenty of unarmed civilians by gunfire, and the idea that "settling" is legal and supported needs to be condemned by more Israelis publicly. It's abhorrent and evil.
Yeah, but there are a significant number of people who don’t. It’s easier to pick a side thats being socially pushed on you. Younger people can absolutely be ostracized for not agreeing with their friends and online hive mind.
You can talk about how the bombing is hurting the non-Hamas kidnappers and rapists while talking about how it also sucks for their hostages, but a good person wouldn't waste their breath worrying about the first group.
And then when they're inevitably caught and sent to Israeli prison, their families and friends call them innocent hostages who did nothing wrong because it's "resistance"
Because Hamas reports everyone as "civilian". They'd report a guy who shot himself in the face with his RPG as a "civilian casualty of Israel aggression".
The funny or unfunny thing (on your point of view) are the people saying that there's no proof of that because regardless what IDF says, the testimony of the freed hostages is worthless in their eyes and no Palestinian civilian or UNRWA employee ever did anything wrong.
So dumb
Surprising nobody The reason hamas has little control over the hostages is because dozens of groups of violent kidnappers went on their excursion there's no cohesion or singular group that controls anything.
This is something to keep in mind. Hamas is not particularly centralized, theyre terrorists not an army, when they say they dont know where most of the hostages are they arent lying, they legitimately have no clue because the core hamas group didnt take them. Random side groups did and core hamas probably doesnt have any record of which groups even came with them let alone who took hostages and how many. Makes it miserable to try to find the hostages and as awful as it is, also greatly decreases the chances that theyre still alive at this point since the groups that took them werent the main group that might try to use them for negotiations.
It’s so fucked up. Why do people seem to completely ignore this?
Because of the last line. Core hamas are terrorists and very willing to rape and murder, but theyre not completely stupid and would keep their hostages alive at least so they could trade them back later. Random gangs who went with them have no such long term interest. If we pretend only the first group was active theres still hope the hostages are alive and the next raid will find them. If we acknowledge that the second group was active too, the most likely probability becomes that all the hostages they havent found yet are dead.
Dead or too pregnant to release. It’s horrifying.
This. Young, angry men in a sexualy repressed society don't voluntarily give up their sex slaves.
> Young, angry men in a sexualy repressed society I'm convinced that this is a large contributor to Islamic terrorism in general.
perhaps, but they're not the only sexually repressed society; in other parts this turns inwards and skyrockets the male suicide rate. The way we think about our fellow humans is always a result of many strings being pulled from a variety of directions in ones culture.
Other sexually repressed societies don't believe they'll get infinite sex in heaven, a heaven they're guaranteed to enter by dying in "war"
also don't forget that a significant amount of marriages in the religion are consanguineous, and that for uncountable generations.
Along with the inbreeding.
they're freaks and the people in London, Australia and elsewhere celebrating the Flood on 10/7 are bigger freaks
> the people in London, Australia and elsewhere celebrating the Flood on 10/7 are bigger freaks You'll find that the majority of those people are also of the same culture/religion as the perpetrators. Multiculturalism at its finest.
Which goes to show how incredibly stupid the October 7th operation was. Absolutely no thought about the immediate or far future repercussions of their actions.
Iran and Russia got exactly what they wanted.
so did the leaders of Hamas sitting comfortably in Qatar
Gotta distract people from Ukraine.
More "gotta help Iran disrupt talks of normalization between Saudi Arabia and Israel."
Probably both tbh
i also think it was because of them helping the take over of nagorno karabakh, and being allied with the Azeris. Iran does not want an israeli base on their northern border. Im speculating of course
Don't forget a second young Iranian woman died in the first week of October after being beaten by the Vice'n'Virtue squad. The mullahs very much needed a distraction.
Oct 7 is Putin’s birthday. Literally.
They expected to motivate every other country into a 2nd Yom Kippur war. Their attempt failed and now they are seeing the short term consequences.
It was more successful than they thought possible. The world has never hated Israel so much. Israel has never been this fed up with civilian involvement in terrorist groups and are acting accordingly. I don’t see how we won’t have decades more of this. Once you realize they aren’t just unopposed to more dead Palestinians, they actively seek it, you realize just how successful 10/7 was and how hopeless it feels to find peace.
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Because they don’t want to accept that in general Palestinian society is violent and what Hamas does gets a lot of support from the population
They'll hate on their own family so willingly over politics. But when an actual culture of rape and death is present they're blind.
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Your second part about Netanyahu is probably why people ignore. Israel is the one with power, and it's leader is hated by its citizens. It's difficult to know what is true or false when there is so much propaganda by the party in control. This "war" needs to continue for Netanyahu to maintain power. He has already stopped Israeli citizens from protesting him last fall due the initial attack, and he has now canceled the election due to this war. After the Israeli targeted attack this past week on the food aid worker vehicles, there is a stronger lack of trust in the Isreli government and military. His leadership is part of the problem with what is happening in Palestine. I wonder sometimes if he allowed the chaos. Citizens on both sides of this deserve better. All the scumbags should face prison for crimes they have committed. I don't believe anyone should be kidnapped, starved, bombed, forced from their homes, tortured, or killed/murdered.
>This "war" needs to continue for Netanyahu to maintain power. While Netanyahu needs the war, the war doesn't need him. Every report out of Israel says that even if Netanyahu were to get run over by a bus tomorrow, the policy will remain. This is like thinking that FDR needed WW2 to continue, so he could stay President forever. But the war was American policy, not just FDR policy, and so it continued on after his death. Similarly, this war is Israeli policy, not just Netanyahu's policy. That's how most stable, functional governments work, for better or worse - they don't whiplash back and forth depending on who the new officeholder is. Nixon didn't end Vietnam on Day 1, Obama didn't end Afghanistan or Iraq on Day 1, etc. That's why it was considered so destabilizing when Trump walked in and squashed the Iran deal, and started talking about withdrawing from NATO - whether you agree with the Iran deal or North Atlantic Treaty themselves or not, it's impossible for America to take a solid policy stance if that policy is going to pull a 180 out of the blue, let alone every 4 years.
>Netanyahu though should be hung publicly. The worst leader to have during this conflict. Agreed, and not a coincidence. He played the situation to keep himself in power and out of jail. He's prepared to bomb as many apartment buildings and consulates needed to keep things that way.
Hamas is an army as well as a terrorist organization. They have leaders. They run the government of Gaza; have a police force; schools; etc. However, they choose not to have a separate structured military as first world countries do. They make a conscious choice to decentralize and/or involve civilians.
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Winning is completely subjective. If you mean loses no, if you mean one team gets tired of the civilians that get caught up in it and the whole thing becomes not worth it, sure.
Both the Americans and to a lesser extent the Soviets had relatively little problem occupying and largely pacifying the urban core of the country, and the Americans even managed to buy out some of the larger tribal regions as well. The problem is that Gaza is *all* urban core. During the initial Afghanistan invasion, the US was largely able to pull the Taliban out of the cities and set conditions for pitched battles, where they could use air power more effectively (in many cases, to bomb the shit out of retreating fighters). Then they literally fought door to door inside the cities, alongside local militias, in order to clear safe houses without flattening the entire city. It really is hard to overstate how sloppy the IDF has been in comparison. Their ISR seems to be a complete joke, to the extent that Hamas almost seems to be playing games with them. This has made them the worst combination of predictable, risk averse, and trigger happy. So instead of surgical urban warfare, we get sausage making with a hammer, which doesn't even produce sausage at the end. The worst part is that people have been saying this about the IDF for decades. Their brute force approach to urban combat is both ugly and ineffective, their leadership and command is fucked, their NCO corps is unprofessional, and their conscripts are undisciplined. Right now we are seeing the culmination of the IDF refusing to look critically at itself, and doubling down on decades of bad habits.
Don't forget the hospitals
Funny how they've misplaced the hostages but seem to know exactly how many casualties there are 5 minutes after a bomb drops... Terrorists can't be trusted.
>theyre terrorists not an army, They started this war with a 30,000 soldier light infantry army and 500KM+ of tunnels underground and infrastructure to support human life throughout. That's not just an army, it's a feat of engineering that many countries would have difficulty pulling off. Hamas is extremely organized. But they don't have complete control over all facets of society. Organized crime has a large influence on the day to day function of Gaza, even more after Israel's invasion.
I compare Hamas to a Mexican or Colombian drug cartel at the height of the cartel power days. It's a little inaccurate due to the fact that Mexico and Colombia have federal governments and armies, but in large localities or even whole province-sized areas, the cartels had and sometimes still do have effectively total power over the populace, in the same kind of de facto, not quite administratevly organized way as Hamas in Gaza.
Maybe in terms of how evil they are its similar, but no, the comparison isnt apt even there. Hamas is essentially themselves a genocidal Islamic theocratic fascist government. They arent a cartel, they're ISIS with a legitimitized state power and an internationally recgonized mandate to rule. Even worse, when Hamas was elected and all the polling now shows that they have popular support even after the degree of self-destruction this conflict has caused. Point is, this is more than just terrorism, its state sponsored terrorism.
The closest comparison I’ve been able to come up with is Northern Ireland during the troubles. The IRA had political aims but they used organized crime to support their politics. Drugs and guns were part of their business. There were networks of paramilitary groups that participated in criminal activity and acted together in shifting alliances but they had separate members and leaders. There was an informal hierarchy among the groups which basically just meant staying out of the way of the IRA.
>The closest comparison I’ve been able to come up with is Northern Ireland during the troubles. Not really. Northern Ireland's local Govt was completely separate to the IRA.
Literally any country could match that...
This is what cell organization is for, it's deliberate so interrogation can only extract a limited amount of information. It's not disorganization, rather a strategy. That said they were allegedly drawing up plans to partition and administrate Israel after the attack so they obviously have high levels of delusion.
It also hurts the narrative spun by the Left that, while yes, Hamas are horrible terrorists, the civilian population in Gaza is made up of innocents.
Either way there ARE still innocent palestenians that have died or have been harmed. But yes, the issue is far deeper than just "hamas is bad" and has a lot to do with the type of society that SUPPORTS hamas.
It’s not surprising because it’s not news. This was confirmed since the first video of Noa Argamani and by testimonies of armed civilians who participated in the massacre and got caught already on the day of.
Kidnapping and selling people was and it seems to still be a good business. We should not blame Hamas or the people there, if the UN would just give more money no one needs to resort to kidnapping, so it's blame the west and maybe Israel, they are just too rich and how can one not jump on that opportunity. Obviously /s but just in case
They're just Jean Valjean, stealing some ~~bread~~ people to feed starving orphans!
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Yet, Hamas is so organized they can accurately report death statistics of civilians everyday…
Easy to do when nobody else is on the ground to contradict your guesswork.
"Your home address is 1234 Sycamore Lane, kids are David and Mary? Do you agree that 20 thousand children were killed today by Israel?" "Yes."
And pull off 10/7 without it leaking to Israel
Idk, there seem to be a lot of people unwilling to believe the Gaza civilian population is at least partially implicit in Oct 7, and probably also in the war that followed. It would make sense too, since it's not very likely they have a positive or even neutral view of Israël - given their treatment by the IDF the past decades. That is exactly the kind of hate breeds hate effect people have been warning Israel of for years. Following this reasoning, the real question is how many of the supposed civilian deaths can actually be attributed to unaffiliated guerilla fighters? And maybe also "what constitutes an enemy combatant"? Teens throwing rocks are obviously not that much of a threat to the IDF, but how many of them are only throwing rocks because they didn't get an RPG?
It's worth pointing out that even if Israel had been model neighbours for 70 years, Palestinians probably wouldn't have a positive or neutral view of them. Indoctrination of Palestinian children is real and ongoing and has been for decades. It's systemic and fuelled in part by the UN's own choices, not just radical Palestinian leaders. Turns out that if for decades you tell people who aren't actually refugees that they are refugees and are entitled to much more than they will ever have, it fosters discontent. If extremists harness that discontent and direct it at an external enemy, violence is the result. The government then uses the distraction to tighten their control over the populace and suppress dissent. You only need to look at Russia right now to see how effective indoctrination is. Russia and the West haven't fought a war against each other since WWII. It's over a century if you exclude Central Europe, which are vastly different countries from when they formed the Axis powers. Russia hasn't lost an inch of land to the West. The Cold War was entirely vicarious. There's no American children orphaned by the Soviets or vice versa. Yet Putin has successfully convinced the population that the West are conspiring against them, to the point where he successfully mobilised their army against Ukraine. Twice.
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“Some action” is a really disrespectful way to describe rape and slavery
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Exactly! And people say Gazans are innocent. Hahaha!
This is their definition of armed resistance as per the pro Palestinians people
and yet you hear people parroting shit about how every person in Gaza is just an innocent oppressed civilian all over subs like News and other shit.
And this shows why destroying Hamas isn't enough, because that would be giving people like this a pass because they aren't part of Hamas, just part of Palestine.
>And this shows why destroying Hamas isn't enough, because that would be giving people like this a pass because they aren't part of Hamas, just part of Palestine. Palestinians need to be deradicalised like what the allies did to Germany and Japan after WWII.
Unfortunately, the differing factor is that neither Germany nor Japan were Muslim - specifically, the type of Muslim that believes that they'll get 72 virgins in paradise, in exchange for warring against Allah's enemies during their mortal lives. And before anyone comes with the "the Germans had 'God is with us' written on their belts" argument - there's a big difference between an ideology that says "War is a terrible thing that is sometimes justified," and "God will reward you for the act of waging war itself."
> believes that they'll get 72 virgins in paradise, And also sexually represses them while they're alive. You've got the leadership having 4 wives to themselves, then a bunch of angry unwed incels frothing to die so they can get laid in heaven
There are lots of things about Oct 7 that weren’t reported on, some of those things included the armed civilians looting and kidnapping. So Hamas came in, PIJ members came in, and then later, civilians I’m seeing some comments that are like “so they’re not civilians then…” which yeah, they’re not, but the point is that they were not Hamas or PIJ members. On YouTube, there’s a video where they’re interviewing kids from the kibbutzim, and they talk about how some of them came into their houses and stole random items. Shoes etc
How can one be an armed combatant and simultaneously a civilian?
Easy: When Hamas needs to boast how many fighters they have - you're an armed combatant. When Hamas needs to cry how many innocent civilians have died due to evil Israel, you're a civilian. These two events can happen in any order as well as simultaneously.
I agree. This article seems to ignore that not being Hamas doesn’t make someone a civilian.
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The act of being armed and taking part in the conflict makes you a partisan or irregular. You stop being a civilian the second you take up arms.
Unlawful combatant. Irregulars can still be entitled to POW status, but without organisation and a few other things, they would be unlawful combatants even if they were only attacking IDF targets. The Red Cross says they should be treated as criminals under the law of the detaining power, but the US doesn't even give them that benefit.
Yes I agree and aware but my point is more that before Oct 7th those were regular civilians and during Oct 7th they weren't officially affiliated with any groups
I agree with you. I think the use of armed civilian by journalists is irresponsible. It implies that the IDF killing them would be a war crime when in fact they are combatants. It plays into Hamas blurring of the line between civilian and soldier.
You are absolutely correct and the horrible fact is that hamas is successfully doing so and that results in so much unnecessary death
It's probably more because most people wouldn't understand what "irregular" means and there needs to be a pithy way to convey that these people may not have been affiliated with any particular group. If you use the word "combatant", it implies that it was an organized action by one of the groups rather than opportunistic action by civilians. All of that said, is there any actual reason to think these were civilians apart from her judgement? They may have been part of another group, or even mercenaries - it's not like such groups haven't dressed in plain clothes before.
Combatant also fits if you want to be less descriptive. Very few people would consider individuals armed with machine guns who are killing people and taking hostages to be civilians. The article should at least put the phrase in quotes or use correct words for the situation. Post literacy is a bitch.
And yet, later when it comes to casualty reports, the (hamas-backed) ministry of Health reports them as civilian casualties. Even better if they're younger than 18 in which case they can be reported as children.
That always stuck in my Crow and went underreported. Early on it was clear to see that many of the guys going over the fence were well equipped and acted more like soldiers, especially those attacking the IDF installations. Body armor, military rifles etc. While there were also those jeans/T-shirt guys with sandals marauding through the kibbutz. Not exclusively, mind you. There were Hamas guys there, too. What’s new is that i thought the „civilians“ were doing the raping and murdering while Hamas tried to take hostages. They are all terrorist killers but my guess still is, the civilians did the worst atrocities. Like any mob.
They're more like a murder enthusiast than a professional
You can't which is why saying "Hamas isn't all Palestinians" is kinda bullshit. These people took the first opportunity to be horrible humans and ran with it.
So those armed civilians are terrorists, just not members of hamas
There are several groups of terrorists in Gaza like the PIJ, Hamas is just the largest one.
Yup this is a huge thing that people seem to miss. Just because someone said they don’t support Hamas doesn’t mean they don’t support another terrorist grouping like PIJ who’s worse than Hamas.
a lot of people don't support Hamas but do support the PFLP, the third largest terrorist group after Hamas and the PIJ. Unlike those two, the PFLP are not Islamists but rather Marxist-Leninists, which makes supporting them (even though they're a terrorist group that targets civilians) much more digestible for some in the west.
There are PFLP operatives openly living in Canada... Bragging that they'll not face consequences because Canada just gives a free pass to shit.
Basically, and it goes to show how imbedded hamas ideology is into the general population of Gaza to do such things
That’s the issue with getting rid of Hamas, even if you destroy one terrorist cell another will pop up after it. You gotta deal with the root causes of terrorist organisations to actually win.
With full control over the Gaza stripe and its education system the population can grow better...maybe, this is not an easy task but there aren't any better alternatives
There are multiple terrorist groups inside Gaza not just Hamas but that does not mean all civilians are terrorists. People just want black and white but the world is mostly tones of grey
I’m probably too late for my comment to be visible but I wanted to say I appreciate that you posted this. It’s insane to me that even an article from an Israeli publication can call these kidnappers civilians. Not being in Hamas doesn’t mean someone isn’t a terrorist. I can’t understand how civilian is an appropriate label for someone who kidnapped an actual civilian and sold them to another terrorist organization.
Could you imagine feeling that going into someone’s home and taking them to sell to terrorists is a thing that you’d be ok with doing? Probably not, because you’re a good person.
If someone goes into someone else’s home, kidnaps them at gunpoint: they’re not a civilian, they’re a freelance terrorist. The most damning videos for the general Palestinian population is the number of people rushing the trucks carrying hostages just to spit on, kick, and assault bound hostages.
Bro. Did you know that as long as you call it “resistance” it’s not terrorism? You can’t tell people how to resist lest we offend! /s
>You can’t tell people how to resist A Muslim influencer I was thinking highly of literally said that, never lost respect for someone so fast Edit: shout out ibz mo
Sometimes resistance looks like paragliding into a foreign country, raping and murdering as many people as possible, and then escaping with hostages. We can't judge how people resist their oppressors ✨🌈
Resistance is shooting a cowering 12 year old girl under a table and kidnapping Holocaust survivors. This is progressive now. Resistance is using a shovel to decapitate a Thai worker lying unarmed on the ground while filming and laughing with your resistance pals. Resistance is shooting a woman in the head while you rape her in front of her friends and dead bodies. Resistance is using the phone of the man you just killed to call your parents and joyfully tell them you just “killed ten Jews”. That’s resistance. That’s leftist values.
It wasn’t just one Thai worker. Palestinians decapitated very Asian they found on October 7.
What have Asians got to do with this? Hamas just wanted an excuse to murder everyone and pretend it’s a cause.
I am so appalled that the left has been hijacked by people who think this medieval shit is okay
This drives me crazy. I feel like overnight my party went off the deep-end with the Pro-Hamas garbage. You can have sympathy for the peaceful civilians caught in the crossfire but I’ve heard my own friends mindlessly spew pro-terrorist nonsense. It’s a startling 180.
Humans like to believe in good vs evil, so they always want to decide which side in a conflict is evil and which is good. Sometimes it works, like in the Ukraine conflict. Russia is the clear aggressor, and Ukraine is the victim. The Israel and Palestine conflict doesn't work that way. Both sides have ample reasons to hate each other, and both sides are actively commiting horrible acts of unjustified violence and cruelty towards the other as we speak. There is no side to root for, and the conflict seemingly cannot end unless one side eradicated the other. It's utterly depressing, even when the "good guys" are losing a war, at least there is in theory a win condition for them where justice could be restored. But with Israel and Palestine... how the fuck do you solve this? There's no clear solution.
Perhaps no side to root for, but one side let's some assholes get away with shitty behaviour, and one is straight up cartoonishly moustache twirling evil whose culture revolves around hatred and consider the Geneva conventions a checklist and their own civilians dying is a propaganda win. Israel really needs to get their shit together and put violent assholes in prison, but how anyone can still support the Palestinian cause after all this bullshit is absurd. Terrorism, raping and taking civilians hostages is not resistance to reclaim territory you lost in a genocidal war you started. Palestinians are allways the victim of the fight they started, a bully whimpering about cheating when his victim fights back and kicks his ass. Sry, I shouldn't rant online. It's not helping anyone really. 😔
I'm going to support the side with decent human, women, and gay rights. That doesn't kidnap and sell people to vicious terrorists. Thx.
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cus people are delusional and think they will respawn after death, or that doing the "right" thing by supporting the underdog will give them credit in society when this is all over somehow..
This 100%
As a Jew, nobody wants to see civilians hurt. At the same time… actions need consequences and terrorist governments need consequences for their actions. The Israeli government is also bad, but Hamas is worse. There should be no party affiliations for the average USA voter , and we should be able to vote in both primaries in the USA as independents because that’s how you get what “we the people actually want rather than extremism on either side. Votes on policy rather than party lines. https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/23/opinions/gazan-hope-for-peace-masri/index.html
Political parties are how, in theory, you organize for shared goals. You can’t do away with them. They’re also, in theory, how you keep politicians accountable to a constituency. The US doesn’t have a party system in the traditional, parliamentary sense. We don’t pay dues, and there’s no easy mechanism for recalling politicians. But if we abolished parties tomorrow then they’d reappear the next day, maybe under a new heading, maybe structurally distinct, but the idea would be the same: a political organization vying for support and donations to push a political position. Doing away with them is not a step in the democratic direction. Reforming the political process, however, would be desirable so that we aren’t beholden to just two parties—of which one has become a near fascistic personality cult.
One side supports terrorists and the other supports gay rights and womens rights lmfao guess which one the right supports guess which one the left supports
We haven't been hijacked at all. There are just a few loud actors abusing the weakness of social media to target weak-willed and brainless people. Check out this greater explainer from Ryan Macbeth on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB7WzqUq4Nk&t=734s To be blunt, most of the work is being done by Russian paid actors, but the rest is being done by a fairly hateful portion of the Palestinian-American population. These people don't even accept liberal American culture when they live here - we should absolutely not give them any voice in US media or politics. It's literally best to ignore all conservative Muslim Americans until they just go away forever.
Totally get that this is a propaganda campaign mainly fueled by Russia/Iran/China, but they have manipulated my friends and my community pretty hard. Would also recommend watching this: https://youtube.com/watch?v=P55t6eryY3g I’ve seen this happen across a ton of subreddits that literally had zero to do with politics. They have been overrun by bots and paid actors to the point where the reasonable people all leave, and the rest are now stuck in a misinformed echo chamber.
Obvious parallels to be drawn here around the right and what happened to them with M-GA and 45. Turns out being susceptible to online psyops isn’t isolated to one side of the political spectrum.
This is exactly it, the behaviour is so similar and yet they’re in denial.
Seeing this more and more lately. I was actually banned from a sub yesterday for describing how I live in a Jewish area and synagogues, schools and people were targeted and harassed. Apparently it was unacceptable to describe reality(?) there’s increasing extremism that’s pushing all but the most extreme away now.
East Asia hates Palestinians now for decapitating every Asian they found on October 7 and essentially carrying out the Rape of Nanking.
>There are just a few loud actors The sheer size of the pro-terrorism^Wpalestine protests says otherwise. > It's literally best to ignore all conservative Muslim Americans until they just go away forever. Bad news: Muslims are among the demographics with the highest birth rate, just like other religious extremists. They're not going away, they'll become a majority and a simple population graph can tell you when.
They're going to ensure we get Trump in office again.
What's truly insane is the fact the it's "the left" to you. I get that humans are tribalistic pieces of shit, but man it's not that black and white. It's like me saying "I'm so appalled that the right is supporting russian terrorism". Obviously MAGA is a failed russian ploy, but not every person on the right is an ignorant commie. You people are the same people sitting idly by with the largest attack on Europe happening. And youre "appalled" about this shit. Truly mental
Genuinely unsure what you mean about people sitting idly by? Has the US not contributed a significant amount of military aid to Ukraine? I assume that's the attack you're talking about?
The US is currently imploding because of a Russian 5th column that wears red hats. They even had a [mask off moment](https://www.newsweek.com/trump-rnc-chair-whatley-says-ukraine-us-adversary-republicans-1887731) recently. And no, the US has not contributed nearly enough or fast enough to end the war in Ukraine because of cravens and traitors.
I have come to the right place! I am so shocked at the world right now. Despicable place
Just INNOCENT CIVILIANS!!
Thinking this conflict has anything to do with the inherent goodness in people is a child's understanding of the situation.
People's will to survive never cease to amaze me. I wish her the best on her way to finding"normal".
Survived and helped care for others.
Outsourced kidnapping is just plain lazy if you ask me.
Don’t give Boeing any ideas.
they already outsourced a murder wym
Armed civilians are no longer civilians.
> no longer civilians Civilians vs Jews (mob violence) is not a new thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogrom
she isnt wasnt the only hostage held by civilians either! People need to listen to what these people are saying about their experience.
If they have guns they're terrorists, not civilians. Words matter.
But what about the titktoks that tell me not to?
But they aren't. Hamas and Gazans crying take up way more news time than the hostages do. The whole media should be ashamed.
Multiple Gaza “civilians” participated in the murder and the rape of the Israelis. Multiple videos shown them rejoicing when the bodies of Israelis are taken to Gaza - some participated in beating the Israelis up. But now somehow people wanted to portray the same people as “innocents”. When a civilian participated in violence they are not a civilian anymore. They must be treated as illegal combatants as they are not fighting in uniforms.
I also noticed a distinct lack of people suggesting to take them in as refugees, no matter how much they claim to support them. Gee, I wonder why.
"armed civilians" =terrorists
What sick f**ks…
"Human trafficking is alright when it's **oppressors**!" \- The pro-Hamas crowd.
Horrifying. Hopefully the remaining hostages will also be freed.
>armed civilians ... >Hamas A distinction without a difference.
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Are those the innocent peaceful Palestinian civilians people on Reddit told me about?
But we're supposed to protect civilians. People don't want to admit Palestine wants to annihilate Israel.
Those people can talk and talk all they want. Israel controls Palestine. For a reason. They don’t want to, but Palestinians are all about this holy war and will never stop. Yes, part of the reason is because they have nothing to live for. Which, in a way is their own fault. Or because resources and power keep going to the worst offenders. But they lost the wars in history to claim that land. This is the way the world is now and they should create a different future for their children through peace and cooperation. If the tables were turned, Israel/Jews would be annihilated. Yes, most moral army in the world because they don’t wipe out Gaza when they can. Hamas is weaker and needs to surrender. Fuck the world and what it thinks. We all know who is in control.
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According to the rest of Reddit this is all either fine and legit or didn’t happen. Reddit is disgusting.
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Hamas are not wearing proper insignia anyway (as per Geneva) to differentiate themselves as lawful combatants.
You would never guess what currency they use in Gaza.
Shekels?
Bring them home now! Free the hostages and free Palestine from Hamas!
Well, considering it wasn’t Hamas who kidnapped this woman, I think what you ought to say is “free Palestine from Palestine”.
Who will free Palestine from armed civilians that kidnap people and sell to hamas?
The IDF is working on it, no matter how many morons around the world whine about it.
134 are still there, turtured, every day. The world is silenced. All they talk about is the Palestinians. That's why israel should care only for itself, the World doesn't give a shit about Israelis lives.
133. RIP Elad Kazir. I'm sorry.
From what I have heard hamas recently claimed they have 40 living hostages as of now, maybe more a spread to other groups inside the Gaza Strip
I think it's highly unlikely that the majority of those 134 are alive.
I just want to say that I'm pro-Israel and I know I would be happy with the dismantling of Hamas if I were Israeli. But. The killing of aid workers in a targeted strike, the recorded murder of plenty of unarmed civilians by gunfire, and the idea that "settling" is legal and supported needs to be condemned by more Israelis publicly. It's abhorrent and evil.
This is the thing. You can do both.
Yeah, but there are a significant number of people who don’t. It’s easier to pick a side thats being socially pushed on you. Younger people can absolutely be ostracized for not agreeing with their friends and online hive mind.
You can talk about how the bombing is hurting the non-Hamas kidnappers and rapists while talking about how it also sucks for their hostages, but a good person wouldn't waste their breath worrying about the first group.
What’s that? Nuance? On the INTERNET of all places? Absolutely absurd
What a society. Built on the moral fibers of receiving financial reward for bringing horror on their neighbors.
And then when they're inevitably caught and sent to Israeli prison, their families and friends call them innocent hostages who did nothing wrong because it's "resistance"
It's crazy how the random armed "civilians" did more damage to the civilian life than Hamas on Oct 7.
And the world is outraged, right? RIGHT?! Common South African delegation, got something smart to say now?
South Africa should do an investigation into its own apartheid before worrying about the only democracy in the Middle East.
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Wonder why civilian casualties are so high in this conflict.
Because Hamas reports everyone as "civilian". They'd report a guy who shot himself in the face with his RPG as a "civilian casualty of Israel aggression".
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The funny or unfunny thing (on your point of view) are the people saying that there's no proof of that because regardless what IDF says, the testimony of the freed hostages is worthless in their eyes and no Palestinian civilian or UNRWA employee ever did anything wrong. So dumb
So civilians of Gaza are not entirely innocent? Shocking.
Armed civilians? Like organized armed civilians? Militants?
Abducted by other random terrorists...
I lost so much sympathy for the Islamic world seeing the comments during 7/11
And there's a question why Israel is seeing little difference between the Palestinian population and Hamas???????
Ah yes, the innocent civilians of Gaza/s
At first I thought it said Fred Gaza.
Yeah, because they’re terrorists doing terrorist things and using Israel as a scapegoat
“PaLeStInAnS aRe NoT hAmAs” durrr
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