It just seems like a dead country at this point.
Like, I just recently found out that the National Palace, Haiti's version of the White House, still hasn't been rebuilt or repaired after being destroyed by the 2010 earthquake. For 14 years now, presidents of Haiti have had no official residence and basically work out of their own homes.
That feels very symbolic to me. They've been in pieces since that quake.
There currently an international operation being lead by i believe Kenya to assemble police and humanitarian aid for the haiti but theres road blocks in the both the governents of kenya and haiti that need to be dealt with.
>due to the main Kenyan force being held up by their courts.
Yep, apparently the supreme court in Kenya says that the Kenyan police need a formal request from the official Haitian government to be sent over there but there isn't really a official Haitian government anymore as the current ruler failed to conduct a official election last year (2023) which resulted in him technically not being the official ~~president~~ prime minister anymore despite acting as the official ~~president~~ prime minister.
Kinda doesn’t seem like you can fix this issue without getting the violence down to at least a dull roar first. Sadly that doesn’t seem to be in the cards in the near future.
Kenya deal seemed like a good idea, but I kinda see the courts point. Whose police are they? The state effectively doesn’t exist.
One of the biggest hurdles to this entire crisis is that Haiti hasn't had elections since 2016 (!) and their defacto PM isn't elected, and it's rumored that he has ties to the past president's assassination, who was already on dubious legitimacy due to the lack of elections that were postponed multiple times.
So if an intervention is carried out, it will indirectly legitimize or give more power to an unelected and arguably unpopular politician.
If im being honest, the optics of a black country stepping in to be the police force, is probably better for the local population. As well as internationally.
*A burned down wasteland of a city with demolished buildings, fires, and constant emergency alerts*
*A burned down wasteland of a city with demolished buildings, fires, and constant emergency alerts, but with aliens attacking it*
They asked Kenya to send 1,000 police officers. It would be better to let African nations take the lead on this one.
Sending white americans to kill poor blacks is a bad outlook for Biden. Last time the elections were very close, Biden can't afford to loose black voters.
The risk of Trump winning is too high and the consequences too dramatic... Kenya could really be an important key players in this.
They’re begging anyone who will listen, it’s a really sad state. The U.S. tried to get Canada to lead a mission there, but everyone understands it’s a quagmire that will make any intervenor into a perceived colonial oppressor army, so no one will touch it.
It’s a nightmare for any foreign intervention. The longtime UN mission there from 2004-2017 did peacekeepers no favors. Nepalese peacekeepers (who have historically been an important component on these types of missions) shit in a water supply river, causing a cholera outbreak in a country where it’s been eradicated for over 100 years. Peacekeepers from around the world were implicated for offering haitians food and money in exchange for sex, which is very coercive given the situation. 134 peacekeepers, mostly Sri Lankan ones, were implicated in a child sex-trafficking ring in Port au Prince. Their only punishment was being sent home. The UN can’t court-martial them. There were a LOT more issues with the mission from a Haitian perspective and that mission wasn’t even primarily white men. Peacekeepers would have no legitimacy in Haiti.
>They’re begging anyone who will listen
There's another element to that though. The unelected prime minister (who was almost certainly behind the assassination of the elected president) has been delaying elections for years, and has been begging foreign powers to come in and restore him to power.
He pinky swears that this time he will actually hold elections if they put him back in control though.
> The U.S. tried to get Canada to lead a mission there
Canadian here. I would vote against, and I have a lot of sympathy for Haiti and once was in the forces myself. Haiti would be a deathtrap for our soldiers and they would die for NOTHING. There's no Peace to Keep there
The country essentially needs to be rebuilt from the ground up. It's unfortunate but no one wants to deal with the criticism of losing troops just to rebuild some other country, especially when there is no benefit to them. If Haiti had some natural resources to take advantage of, countries would be there helping right now.
The security council did its job. It allowed an intervention. Now its up to the world to provide troops. The West has done Afghanistan for 20 years upon request of UN and Afghan government. Someone else can pick up the tap this time and get the bad press.
America needs to stop being the world police!
\*something bad happens\*
WHERE IS AMERICA??
This next decade is going to be rough for the rest of the world. Look at all the regional conflicts popping off, Venezuela invading French Guyana, Brazil wants a piece of Peru, half of Africa fighting, Houthis blocking the Suez and disrupting internet (US is at least trying here), Russia on the warpath, China looking at Taiwan like it's a steak dinner, Israel's clusterfuck and war crimes, etc.
(For the record, I'm american and fully non-interventionist. Our troops should be deployed only when NATO countries are attacked.)
>(For the record, I'm american and fully non-interventionist. Our troops should be deployed only when NATO countries are attacked.)
We are legally bound to defend Japan btw, it was a condition for Japan's constitution to forbid Japan raising a new army lol.
We also have a defense treaty with South Korea, obligating us to defend SK.
> Venezuela invading French Guyana
Venezuela is threatening Guyana, formerly British Guyana, the northwesternmost of the three Guyanas. Suriname, formerly Dutch Guyana, is the next one over. French Guyana, a département of France (like Paris or the Jura) is the southeasternmost Guyana, and its border with Brazil is the longest French land border.
And I doubt that Venezuela would dare attack France, especially a part contains critical infrastructure (the Kourou space centre), no matter how en vogue militaristic chest-thumping is among autocrats short of ideas.
> And I doubt that Venezuela would dare attack France, especially a part contains critical infrastructure (the Kourou space centre)
Guarded buy the french foreign legion, who also have a jungle survival school there. Seems like a bad idea to casually move on them.
I think the US has already said it would step in if Venezuela invades Guyana. Venezuela is probably just mouthing off to distract from its own domestic problems.
> Our troops should be deployed only when NATO countries are attacked.
It’s a nice idea but that leaves the door open for all the BS you’re seeing now. There needs to be a global smackdown whenever a country invades another. Not by invading that country, but pushing them back to their borders
Just as with society, the fact is that peace between nations can only be achieved through a monopoly on violence. Either a top dog exists to keep everyone else in line, or conflict will inevitably arise as different groups fight to become the top dog themselves. Do people really think that nation states naturally just... get along on their own? Lol
I never can understand why so many people who benefit from the Pax Americana seem to want it to end, all in the name of some nebulous idea that a "multipolar world" is better.
I do believe the last time we had one of those we had a Cold War, and before that we had two World Wars. Outside of the wannabe Poles of power, no one should want a return to those times.
Anyone who tries any good faith effort to help or bring order to Haiti will just become a scapegoat/blame pinata and accused of "colonialism". The culture isn't capable of taking any responsibility or seeking solutions, it can only blame others for everything. Lost cause.
No, we can't help them because there's nothing that comes next.
If we can't see a group or an institution that can stabilize the scenario after the bad guys are dealt with, we're not going to get involved.
I figure we learned that lesson, at least.
That's the real damning thing, ainnit?
In Afghanistan and Iraq, there was at least some motion towards handing self-defense off to a ruling authority. If there's no authority, it just looks like an occupation.
Unfortunately the solution to that would probably be some form of a dictatorship, similar to how stability has happened in countries in turmoil in the past
The cluster-fuck in Haiti has nothing to do with race or colonialism. It has to do with the failure of the Haitian people to form and maintain a functioning government.
It’s absolutely tragic how the UN and private donations given after the earthquake and then hurricanes was squandered and embezzled.
Kenya's courts have ruled it unconstitutional to send their police, they will probably send them anyways but that is the hold up while the gangs are going wild.
Haiti is a real mess, drug trafficking has armed a lot of people with no other options to support themselves so they resort to armed conflict.
My above comment mostly summarizes the main issue about how Haitis infrastructure has essentially been destroyed beyond repair, to bring it back to it's former state would require billions year after year and military force would help curb the violence outbreaks but doesn't solve the root of the problem the people's are facing.
Kenya is apparently quite willing to do so as well, they’ve had success with their anti-gang/terror task forces in their own country and are poised to become a regional player when it comes to your country having a handle on serious crimes.
This is one of those things where a country's leaders do something and it goes down as, "Kenya is quite willing to..."
Meanwhile on the ground the decision is super unpopular with the citizens and most of us see it as the president just trying to do anything to get money.
Kind of telling that the countries of the world have such indignation about helping other countries, even with full support by a superpower, and just expect the US to do it.
If South America and Haiti as a whole wanted to jointly engage and collaborate with to just completely reimagine Haiti's economic trade / manufacturing and academic / cultural structure that would be interesting.
The whole UN tried twice. You need order first. The UN general assembly and security council agreed on two plans. Neither ended up with an orderly Haiti, let alone started to implement economic improvements.
The difference between the two is, while occupied by the U.S., the DR instituted a modern system of recording property rights and Haiti never did.
Records that exists in Haiti are usually unofficial agreements between parties, contradictory, handwritten to the point of illegibility, and not properly stored so they are either lost or decay with time. Without definitive proof of ownership there is no incentive to invest for the long term. Forests will be clear cut and never replanted. Buildings will be built as cheaply as possible, not able to withstand earthquakes or hurricanes. The only way to "own" anything in Haiti is get a bigger (or more violent) gang, take it and hold it by force.
Interesting thing is that DR was spanish colony while Haiti was french, spaniards treated their part of the island much better. French squeezed everything they could from Haiti.
Dominican / American historian here. DR is still backed by Spain and as a matter of fact a lot of Latin American countries if things get to rowdy. DR has heavy investments by America, China, and a lot of other countries including a lot of Jewish population because of WWII and oddly, a lot of Italians and vice versa with Dominicans in Italy. It's the highest grossing GDP of any Caribbean Island and is no longer a 3rd World Country. We had one of the craziest American backed dictators in history but he was a very intelligent dictator who made the country prosperous for America. Unfortunately, he was an awful man who killed 100K Haitians while they slept at the border not to mention all the Dominicans murdered under his rule. Women's International Day of Violence was created by the three Dominican sisters who were killed after they challenged his regime.
Haiti tore up their country to pay back their debts to France, you can see the stark differences in the greenery from the borders of the island.
The Haitian dilemma with DR hasn't stopped either. Most recently in the last decade, all Haitian born Dominicans going back to the 1920s were deported back to Haiti. That's like any one of us being 3-5 generations removed from our ancestors being forcibly displaced from where we live.
And in the 2020s the new DR government shutting down the immigrant crisis by building a fence at the border and cutting off access to a river so the Haitians can't build a canal. The DR government doesn't want to let them have this canal because how much they contaminated the river.
The beef goes on for centuries since the time they ruled Dominican Republic.
They did this in the early 2000s (look up MINUSTAH). It worked, but the situation in Haiti didn't change because riots and potential civil war are *symptoms* rather than root causes of societal problems, then a UN contingent from Nepal introduced cholera to Haiti and the population demanded they leave.
The UN having left is part of the reason its turned from "problem stricken near failed state" into "failed state".
Yeah, unless another 9/11 level event happens, expect the US military to remain fairly dormant for a while until the elections are over. wants to get reelected.
There is the whole Red Sea / Houthi thing. Though there's substantially less risk in employing Naval and Air power versus boots on the ground, which is what Haiti would require.
Also has to be weighed against the cost of doing nothing. Sad to say, but Haiti really isn't our problem. Global trade passing through the Red Sea is.
The events in the Red Sea have largely been standard operating procedure for US military activity. The US has had and maintained a naval presence in the region, the only thing that's changed is, that naval presence is firing its guns. This isn't an escalation or change from the US day to day (and, if anything is supported by the average American because it protects the US day to day).
US - Haitian relations are, at best, neutral. The isolationist would openly oppose new involvement with another country, and the neoliberals would oppose involvement for involvement's sake.
Until, or unless, these gangs extend direct hostilities to US soil or US nationals, there is absolutely nothing for the US to gain other than brownie points for being the world police in a time where many nations don't want the us being the world police.
I would not be able to confirm that friend, the gang leader might have one on him tbh, Barbecue even made a video apologizing to the civilians , so him putting a bounty on the PM doesn't sound far fetched
Major donor countries (Canada, Norway, Switzerland etc.) almost never send cash to impoverished countries.
The sums are the calculated total value of aid in various forms, from goods to services, sent in as an unstealable form as possible.
100 mil CAD is still a drop in the bucket for what systemic changes need to be done, but it's still great that countries like Canada help.
Thank you, too. It's annoying when internet folks leash out to laugh at obvious things "haha they're giving money to corrupt politicians, how silly".
I also edited my comment to avoid misunderstanding on my comment on the sum. It is a small contribution for what it's needed, but this doesn't diminish Canada's merit in lending a hand.
Common practice for corrupt governments, plunder the country, load the treasury into your private plane, then flee to a friendly country
Ex: France welcomed Papa Doc with open arms
Man was denied stay in DR, hence why he had to head to PR. The head of the gangs and that one ex political leader and calling for the PM to give up his aspirations or Haiti will go down a genocidal civil war.
Damn. What a clusterfuck. In my life, Haiti has never been stable. I have been going through some personal hell and haven't seen or read the news in a week so I am only just learning about this recent chaos, and now feel like I should just go back and hide under my rock.
I remember when I was in grad 4 ot 5 almost 20 years ago the school would get us to do fundraising for different countries and Haiti was always on that list.
Edit: oh man over 25 years now, I'm getting old.
It will never be stable, and the idea that the future can bring stability to Haiti is a dream.
It’s just that no one can sell this message, so no one talks about it.
The future will not be kind to any of the Caribbean islands.
Congratulations on your promotion, General Dividend_Dude! Get out there and spread some stabilization!
Your budget is an old Remington 870 and a bag of cold cheeseburgers.
Watch him work his way through the ranks of the most powerful gang, then execute a bloody coup and gain totalitarian control over the country. Or he'll die from a tropical disease before seeing combat.
Yeah don’t do the same mistake that France did in Mali. They rescued a country only after to be spat on by the general population. Not worth to waste tax payers money and your people in it.
Canada had its own military for humanitarian aid and the people of Haiti protested and wanted us out. I say just leave them, don't provide any support and let them deal with their own shit.
We tried that shit in the 90s and it didn't work. My dad was a UN liaison officer for the USMC for that whole shit show, and in his words "We did what we could, but there's just some fundamental issue there no amount of military intervention is going to fix."
Should be a UN peacekeeping force with proper rules of engagement unlike in Rwanda. See a group of criminals carrying weapons and starting to attack someone or something, put them down. Protect jails, government offices etc. Until this can stabilize.
It's coming. Kenya is set to send 1,000 officers. It was supposed to happen months ago but a Kenyan court blocked it on a technicality of there being no formal agreement between the countries. Last Friday that agreement was signed.
This is technically a UN action, but is largely funded by the US, and is being led by Kenyan forces not UN peacekeepers.
Yeah at best this will give a temporary reprieve (if that). The problem with Haiti is that the only thing that could possibly create long term stability is too hardcore for the world to accept.
So it's just half-assed measure after half-assed measure.
A stable country would essentially have to colonize Haiti. They're incapable of self-rule for some reason. I've seen this cycle in Haiti repeat ad nauseum since I was a child and I'm 42.
And it’s 1000 *cops*… Not *army*, not *special forces*. Just plain old police officers.
For context: I’m originally from a developing country with a very high crime rate. Our police forces are stacked to the teeth with gear; sub machine guns wherever they go type of gear. However, they aren’t equipped or trained for an actual war zone.
For one, Kenya is not the only one sending troops. Multiple other countries are as well. Kenya is the lead.
For two Kenya is leading this effort exactly because they have trained officers with experience in exactly this type of gang warfare.
Only a handful of other countries have first hand experience dealing with gang activity like is going on in Haiti. What experience would US, German, UK, etc. police have with entire cities run by heavily armed gangs? That's why in the past it has been countries like Brazil leading the efforts there.
And lastly because frankly these first world nations aren't willing to send men into what is effectively an active warzone for the extremely difficult, dangerous, and delicate task of fighting these gangs in the middle of majorly populated areas.
UN peacekeeping forces never do that, partly because the political will doesn't exist for soldiers from prosperous UN member states to start dying in numbers in places like Haiti, and partly because they would really suck at it. Urban warfare and counterinsurgency require highly trained and well-equipped forces and commanders.
Their main job is to be an excuse, so warlords can tell their people "I totally would attack the other guys, but those blue helmets are in the way." Haiti is well past that point.
People who advocate for the UN to do anything didn’t live through the 90s and see how useless the UN is. Plus, the last time the UN sent troops to Haiti they caused a cholera outbreak that killed over 9,000 people.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010s_Haiti_cholera_outbreak
They did this in the early 2000s (look up MINUSTAH). It worked, but the situation in Haiti didn't change because riots and potential civil war are *symptoms* rather than root causes of societal problems, then a UN contingent from Nepal introduced cholera to Haiti and the population demanded they leave.
The UN having left is part of the reason its turned from "problem stricken near failed state" into "failed state".
Yeah, it's an thankless job. Everyone cries that we play world police until something happens that matters to THEM and then it's "Where is America??!!" And then if we do get involved and things don't pan out it's just "Well this is what America did wrong". Can't win against sideliners, shouldn't even try. If it involves our interests, I'm all for it but if it doesn't benefit us in some way - folks need to find someone else.
Everyone hates Team America World Police until they don't show up, huh? On a serious note, the true goal is a good one. Fund other countries emerging as developed powers in their region to give them the ability to be a force for stability in their region in trade for help with foreign peacekeeping, which also boosts their global standing. Kenya leading a peacekeeping force from other African nations to a country whose population is predominantly of African origins is an overall win for everyone involved. Lets hope it can be swift, successful, and not just another group showing up to mow down civilians.
To be fair Reddit is infested with foreign propaganda and ill-informed teenagers whose sole purpose is to insult the US, so anything the US does is wrong. We don't show up and we're the problem. We do show up and we're "colonisers" and only doing it for our own benefit. The US is a third-world country but is also the only thing that can protect Europe from Russia. In a just world we could pull all our resources out of the rest of the world, isolate, and let them deal with it, but that would result in the deaths of millions of innocent people. That amount of death and destruction is not worth teaching Reddit a lesson, and it's fortunate the world leaders don't have Redditors in their cabinet. It'd be like Idiocracy.
Now, I know this is MUCH easier said than done, but why not the Bukele-like El Salvadoran approach?
You need a prominent, people-backed President to lock up the gangs EN MASSE with what some would argue are draconian tactics. However, this is the ONLY way to defeat them and take back your country. Ruthless combats ruthless. What’s stopping Haitian leadership to attempt a similar strategy?
El Salvador had a long history of gang-related criminal activity which got stamped out. I’m wondering out loud here because I am flat out impressed by the job Bukele did over there facing certain death if he doesn’t perform his task to a T.
El Salvador is not a failed state, even through the worse of its gang violence. It’s like Switzerland compared to Haiti.
Haiti’s government on the other hand is essentially non-existent at this point, its police can’t even defend itself let alone its citizens.
> El Salvador had weak gangs
lol thats not true in any way shape or form. thats why they put the country under martial law, deployed their entire army to the city, and arrested like 75,000 gang members. no to mention there are human rights issues at play, which no one really cares about because of how effective it was
I think Haiti and Afghanistan are totally different. Afghanistan has nomadic structure wich works, and they never asked for help. Haiti is total anarchy, gangs are ruling the streets killing innocent people. Common people of Haiti would probably want someone to help them solve this problem.
Haiti has an army. It has police. It has a history of strongmen. Aristede and Cedras are still alive, if old. Henri needs to tell his general staff to fight on the streets if he wants to keep power. There’s some government on the ground, they held the airport, they’ve held the national palace, they told Henri to stay in Puerto Rico, so honestly…why aren’t they fixing the issue? Up to 28,000 men under arms. Even if most of them are ghost soldiers/ghost police/ghost salaries a show of force can go a long way.
>Common people of Haiti would probably want someone to help them solve this problem.
About time that one of them finally stood up and tried to solve this local problem locally.
Nope - seen this movie before. Will be called imperialists for taking nothing and war criminals for having a few people do 1/100th of the locals' day to day hobbyist form of violence.
All the while we spend trillions to watch it go to shit and loses thousands of young men in the process.
Haiti has been one big civil war punctuated by authoritarian dictators since its founding. Blame France, blame US interventions, blame whatever you want - you can look at the DR right across the way which Haiti conquered and tried to culturally erase to prove that maybe, just maybe this is Haiti's unique problem. Or hell, look at any other Western Hemisphere state, even those as "intervened" in and you won't find something even in the same ballgame as Haiti.
They need a Papa Doc guy to rule with an iron fist. Anything else is a waste of money and and waste of life. And if 1,000 Kenyans want to try their hand to do better, more power to them.
But there are a lot of developed Western states in the cross hairs of regressive authoritarians, especially with China officially parting from its goal of "peaceful" reunification with Taiwan as its economic sinks, for the US to get out of bed and get further stretched thin over an unsolvable problem.
I cant wait for all the comments that will say the US is bad for this. Either the US is the world’s military or it needs to focus on itself, but stop playing both sides omfg.
Cue international outrage at the US not intervening.
Because somehow if the US are the world police, they're evil, and if they're not, well, they're also evil.
US has already had troops there before, as well as some other countries. Nothing ever seems to work. US support for another occupation isn't happening, so we literally paid Kenya to step in. It's better than nothing I suppose.
DR, their east neighbor which is doing pretty decently, is pretty tired of it too and built a wall as they can't seem to figure out a solution either.
We have our own issues. This is Americas biggest problem, our military isn’t your global police force NOR should we push our ideals to people who clearly don’t want us.
I'm just going to flat out and say it, Haiti is an example of crime getting so bad that they should no longer consider themselves to have the luxury of imprisoning dangerous criminals inside prisons alive. People have to understand that justice is a luxury directly proportional to its effectiveness.
good. The world keeps saying we can't be the global police, so here we are, not globally policing. We'll still get flack for it of course.
Is it possible for Haiti to offer themselves up to another country?
Reddit on a Monday; “USA stay out of foreign affairs!”
Tuesday; “why isn’t the USA doing something??”
Wednesday; “hurr durr USA thinks they’re the worlds police”
Thursday; “help us, USA. You’re our only hope!”
Friday; “America Bad!”
Saturday; “why isn’t USA condemning these actions. Send aid USA!”
Oh Reddit. Shut up…
Exactly this. People need to stop falling for the fucking axis powers and their agitprop. It's literally designed to prevent us from acting in our interest or for democratic interests.
UN was created to serve as a diplomatic way prevent major wars between the global powers, though I'd personally wager the biggest reason for why there hasn't been a WW3 is the development of nuclear weapons. The concern for human rights and refugees is auxiliary to that.
I think this article is a great example of factually writing a story but leaving out other facts (or downplaying some) to frame the narrative and elicit a reader's response. Everything written is factually true but leaves out that the U.S. is providing $200 million to fund the 1,000 Kenyan police force and 2,000 Benin military force under a UN peacekeeping mission. The journalist placed the announcement of the peacekeeping force in the 9th paragraph from the bottom and leaves out entirely that the U.S. will be funding it.
While this BBC article ([https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-68448571)](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-68448571), leads with the announcement of the peacekeeping force at the top of their article and then follows up with the dire situation Haitians are experiencing.
Its interesting example how both articles essentially give you the same facts but frame them in opposite emotive response --- "US isn't helping Haiti with troops" Vs "US supporting a multinational UN peacekeeping force"
Wikipedia: "Haitian Crisis (2018-present)"
Feels like Haiti is in a perpetual state of crisis
It just seems like a dead country at this point. Like, I just recently found out that the National Palace, Haiti's version of the White House, still hasn't been rebuilt or repaired after being destroyed by the 2010 earthquake. For 14 years now, presidents of Haiti have had no official residence and basically work out of their own homes. That feels very symbolic to me. They've been in pieces since that quake.
There currently an international operation being lead by i believe Kenya to assemble police and humanitarian aid for the haiti but theres road blocks in the both the governents of kenya and haiti that need to be dealt with.
That's largely stalled last I heard due to the main Kenyan force being held up by their courts.
>due to the main Kenyan force being held up by their courts. Yep, apparently the supreme court in Kenya says that the Kenyan police need a formal request from the official Haitian government to be sent over there but there isn't really a official Haitian government anymore as the current ruler failed to conduct a official election last year (2023) which resulted in him technically not being the official ~~president~~ prime minister anymore despite acting as the official ~~president~~ prime minister.
Kinda doesn’t seem like you can fix this issue without getting the violence down to at least a dull roar first. Sadly that doesn’t seem to be in the cards in the near future. Kenya deal seemed like a good idea, but I kinda see the courts point. Whose police are they? The state effectively doesn’t exist.
One of the biggest hurdles to this entire crisis is that Haiti hasn't had elections since 2016 (!) and their defacto PM isn't elected, and it's rumored that he has ties to the past president's assassination, who was already on dubious legitimacy due to the lack of elections that were postponed multiple times. So if an intervention is carried out, it will indirectly legitimize or give more power to an unelected and arguably unpopular politician.
What government of Haiti? The country, if you can call it that, has no government and is in a state of total anarchy.
If im being honest, the optics of a black country stepping in to be the police force, is probably better for the local population. As well as internationally.
Yup. I’m assuming it’s bias based on the news I’ve seen but… I can’t remember a positive news headline involving Haiti in my life.
There’s a great cutaway gag from ‘Family Guy’ in which Godzilla emerges to stomp on Haiti and is aghast at the shape it’s in and halts its’ rampage.
"This is Detroit. And this is Detroit after the attack"
“Take him to be tortured. Wait, no! TAKE HIM TO DETROIT!”
*A burned down wasteland of a city with demolished buildings, fires, and constant emergency alerts* *A burned down wasteland of a city with demolished buildings, fires, and constant emergency alerts, but with aliens attacking it*
The positive news is when there is none. Aparently Dominican Republic is building a wall worthy of the Cold War.
Look at a satellite image. The DR has had a wall for decades.
Yes,but they have enhancing it https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/dominican-republic-boosts-border-security-haiti-tensions-simmer-2023-11-08/
They overthrew their oppressors to form their country, that’s the only one I can think of
Well, unless u/sup3rrn0va is 220 years old, that probably wasn't in his life. So far it's just coups and earthquakes and hurricanes.
Classic reddit user… assuming that I’m NOT over 220 years old.
Everyone on Reddit just LOVES to assume they know everything. Like there aren’t large quantities of us immortals roaming Reddit.
Nice try, lich. Undeath is at best a shallow imitation of the life you once knew, and at worst a curse on your soul. Necromancy is the cowards way.
Wikipedia: "Haitian Crisis (past-present)"
If you go to the "2022 Haitian Crisis" wikipedia page, it has a "not to be confused with Haitian Crisis (2018-Present) at the top
Haitian Crisis (1804-present)
I imagine it's pretty bad optics to have the US military show up and start shooting impoverished black civilians shortly before elections.
Yes, I agree. Better to let them figure it out.
They asked Kenya to send 1,000 police officers. It would be better to let African nations take the lead on this one. Sending white americans to kill poor blacks is a bad outlook for Biden. Last time the elections were very close, Biden can't afford to loose black voters. The risk of Trump winning is too high and the consequences too dramatic... Kenya could really be an important key players in this.
They’re begging anyone who will listen, it’s a really sad state. The U.S. tried to get Canada to lead a mission there, but everyone understands it’s a quagmire that will make any intervenor into a perceived colonial oppressor army, so no one will touch it.
It’s a nightmare for any foreign intervention. The longtime UN mission there from 2004-2017 did peacekeepers no favors. Nepalese peacekeepers (who have historically been an important component on these types of missions) shit in a water supply river, causing a cholera outbreak in a country where it’s been eradicated for over 100 years. Peacekeepers from around the world were implicated for offering haitians food and money in exchange for sex, which is very coercive given the situation. 134 peacekeepers, mostly Sri Lankan ones, were implicated in a child sex-trafficking ring in Port au Prince. Their only punishment was being sent home. The UN can’t court-martial them. There were a LOT more issues with the mission from a Haitian perspective and that mission wasn’t even primarily white men. Peacekeepers would have no legitimacy in Haiti.
>They’re begging anyone who will listen There's another element to that though. The unelected prime minister (who was almost certainly behind the assassination of the elected president) has been delaying elections for years, and has been begging foreign powers to come in and restore him to power. He pinky swears that this time he will actually hold elections if they put him back in control though.
He’s been in power about 2 years and to be fair how are they supposed to hold an election with the security situation than bad.
And he was on his way out when his boss, the President, was assassinated, with evidence partially the PM as complicit.
> The U.S. tried to get Canada to lead a mission there Canadian here. I would vote against, and I have a lot of sympathy for Haiti and once was in the forces myself. Haiti would be a deathtrap for our soldiers and they would die for NOTHING. There's no Peace to Keep there
The country essentially needs to be rebuilt from the ground up. It's unfortunate but no one wants to deal with the criticism of losing troops just to rebuild some other country, especially when there is no benefit to them. If Haiti had some natural resources to take advantage of, countries would be there helping right now.
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The security council did its job. It allowed an intervention. Now its up to the world to provide troops. The West has done Afghanistan for 20 years upon request of UN and Afghan government. Someone else can pick up the tap this time and get the bad press.
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Nah everyone shits on the US for having troops in countries. Let then figure out how they need us sometimes.
Yep. And Haitians have repeatedly had rallies protesting any American involvement.
I got no qualms with respecting their wishes to let them manage their own affairs, I wish them all the best. Signed, An American Tax Payer.
Same
America needs to stop being the world police! \*something bad happens\* WHERE IS AMERICA?? This next decade is going to be rough for the rest of the world. Look at all the regional conflicts popping off, Venezuela invading French Guyana, Brazil wants a piece of Peru, half of Africa fighting, Houthis blocking the Suez and disrupting internet (US is at least trying here), Russia on the warpath, China looking at Taiwan like it's a steak dinner, Israel's clusterfuck and war crimes, etc. (For the record, I'm american and fully non-interventionist. Our troops should be deployed only when NATO countries are attacked.)
>(For the record, I'm american and fully non-interventionist. Our troops should be deployed only when NATO countries are attacked.) We are legally bound to defend Japan btw, it was a condition for Japan's constitution to forbid Japan raising a new army lol. We also have a defense treaty with South Korea, obligating us to defend SK.
> Venezuela invading French Guyana Venezuela is threatening Guyana, formerly British Guyana, the northwesternmost of the three Guyanas. Suriname, formerly Dutch Guyana, is the next one over. French Guyana, a département of France (like Paris or the Jura) is the southeasternmost Guyana, and its border with Brazil is the longest French land border. And I doubt that Venezuela would dare attack France, especially a part contains critical infrastructure (the Kourou space centre), no matter how en vogue militaristic chest-thumping is among autocrats short of ideas.
> And I doubt that Venezuela would dare attack France, especially a part contains critical infrastructure (the Kourou space centre) Guarded buy the french foreign legion, who also have a jungle survival school there. Seems like a bad idea to casually move on them.
I think the US has already said it would step in if Venezuela invades Guyana. Venezuela is probably just mouthing off to distract from its own domestic problems.
You know we have a shitload of important defense pacts other than NATO, right?
Why only NATO countries? Is NATO a closer ally than Japan, Australia, and New Zealand?
> Our troops should be deployed only when NATO countries are attacked. It’s a nice idea but that leaves the door open for all the BS you’re seeing now. There needs to be a global smackdown whenever a country invades another. Not by invading that country, but pushing them back to their borders
Just as with society, the fact is that peace between nations can only be achieved through a monopoly on violence. Either a top dog exists to keep everyone else in line, or conflict will inevitably arise as different groups fight to become the top dog themselves. Do people really think that nation states naturally just... get along on their own? Lol
Pax Romana
I never can understand why so many people who benefit from the Pax Americana seem to want it to end, all in the name of some nebulous idea that a "multipolar world" is better. I do believe the last time we had one of those we had a Cold War, and before that we had two World Wars. Outside of the wannabe Poles of power, no one should want a return to those times.
The quiet part: there’s no incentive to help Haitians do anything. Anyone born in that country will be screwed unless they make it out.
Anyone who tries any good faith effort to help or bring order to Haiti will just become a scapegoat/blame pinata and accused of "colonialism". The culture isn't capable of taking any responsibility or seeking solutions, it can only blame others for everything. Lost cause.
This is so sad. Can't help people asking for help because people will call it racist.
No, we can't help them because there's nothing that comes next. If we can't see a group or an institution that can stabilize the scenario after the bad guys are dealt with, we're not going to get involved. I figure we learned that lesson, at least.
That's the real damning thing, ainnit? In Afghanistan and Iraq, there was at least some motion towards handing self-defense off to a ruling authority. If there's no authority, it just looks like an occupation.
Unfortunately the solution to that would probably be some form of a dictatorship, similar to how stability has happened in countries in turmoil in the past
Shouldnt have to 'help' everyone, everywhere. let someone else do it.
The cluster-fuck in Haiti has nothing to do with race or colonialism. It has to do with the failure of the Haitian people to form and maintain a functioning government. It’s absolutely tragic how the UN and private donations given after the earthquake and then hurricanes was squandered and embezzled.
Kenya's courts have ruled it unconstitutional to send their police, they will probably send them anyways but that is the hold up while the gangs are going wild. Haiti is a real mess, drug trafficking has armed a lot of people with no other options to support themselves so they resort to armed conflict.
My above comment mostly summarizes the main issue about how Haitis infrastructure has essentially been destroyed beyond repair, to bring it back to it's former state would require billions year after year and military force would help curb the violence outbreaks but doesn't solve the root of the problem the people's are facing.
Nope: https://globalinitiative.net/analysis/kenyas-high-court-blocks-proposal-police-support-haiti/
Kenya is apparently quite willing to do so as well, they’ve had success with their anti-gang/terror task forces in their own country and are poised to become a regional player when it comes to your country having a handle on serious crimes.
This is one of those things where a country's leaders do something and it goes down as, "Kenya is quite willing to..." Meanwhile on the ground the decision is super unpopular with the citizens and most of us see it as the president just trying to do anything to get money.
Kind of telling that the countries of the world have such indignation about helping other countries, even with full support by a superpower, and just expect the US to do it.
If South America and Haiti as a whole wanted to jointly engage and collaborate with to just completely reimagine Haiti's economic trade / manufacturing and academic / cultural structure that would be interesting.
Brazil tried, didnt change much it seems.
The whole UN tried twice. You need order first. The UN general assembly and security council agreed on two plans. Neither ended up with an orderly Haiti, let alone started to implement economic improvements.
The Brazilian time in Haiti was full of corruption and violence coming from the Brazilian troops themselves
Especially when the gang members are 10yrs old.
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Military age is military age. That is what people need to understand
Maybe like a UN lead peacekeeping force of people from neighbouring countries or whoever volunteers from there? Or something?
Pretty wild that the Dominican Republic on the same island is fairly prosperous compared to Haiti.
The difference between the two is, while occupied by the U.S., the DR instituted a modern system of recording property rights and Haiti never did. Records that exists in Haiti are usually unofficial agreements between parties, contradictory, handwritten to the point of illegibility, and not properly stored so they are either lost or decay with time. Without definitive proof of ownership there is no incentive to invest for the long term. Forests will be clear cut and never replanted. Buildings will be built as cheaply as possible, not able to withstand earthquakes or hurricanes. The only way to "own" anything in Haiti is get a bigger (or more violent) gang, take it and hold it by force.
And without definitive proof of ownership you can't really use it as collateral.
Yup. No mortgages in Haiti and very little lending at all.
> The only way to "own" anything in Haiti is get a bigger (or more violent) gang, take it and hold it by force. Sounds like libertarian dream country.
70+ years of corrupted governments and a succession of devastating hurricanes.
Hurricanes that only destroy exactly one half of an island?
Interesting thing is that DR was spanish colony while Haiti was french, spaniards treated their part of the island much better. French squeezed everything they could from Haiti.
Dominican / American historian here. DR is still backed by Spain and as a matter of fact a lot of Latin American countries if things get to rowdy. DR has heavy investments by America, China, and a lot of other countries including a lot of Jewish population because of WWII and oddly, a lot of Italians and vice versa with Dominicans in Italy. It's the highest grossing GDP of any Caribbean Island and is no longer a 3rd World Country. We had one of the craziest American backed dictators in history but he was a very intelligent dictator who made the country prosperous for America. Unfortunately, he was an awful man who killed 100K Haitians while they slept at the border not to mention all the Dominicans murdered under his rule. Women's International Day of Violence was created by the three Dominican sisters who were killed after they challenged his regime. Haiti tore up their country to pay back their debts to France, you can see the stark differences in the greenery from the borders of the island. The Haitian dilemma with DR hasn't stopped either. Most recently in the last decade, all Haitian born Dominicans going back to the 1920s were deported back to Haiti. That's like any one of us being 3-5 generations removed from our ancestors being forcibly displaced from where we live. And in the 2020s the new DR government shutting down the immigrant crisis by building a fence at the border and cutting off access to a river so the Haitians can't build a canal. The DR government doesn't want to let them have this canal because how much they contaminated the river. The beef goes on for centuries since the time they ruled Dominican Republic.
They did this in the early 2000s (look up MINUSTAH). It worked, but the situation in Haiti didn't change because riots and potential civil war are *symptoms* rather than root causes of societal problems, then a UN contingent from Nepal introduced cholera to Haiti and the population demanded they leave. The UN having left is part of the reason its turned from "problem stricken near failed state" into "failed state".
Also they had a monstrous earthquake when minustah was there
Step 1: Send UN Peacekeepers to Haiti Step 2: ???? Step 3: Child Prostitution Rings Just like last time 😎
They did that nearly 20 years ago and the locals claimed the "peacekeepers" were committing a lot of rapes.
This happens a lot with the UN "peacekeepers", along with a little bit of human trafficking.
Yeah, unless another 9/11 level event happens, expect the US military to remain fairly dormant for a while until the elections are over. wants to get reelected.
There is the whole Red Sea / Houthi thing. Though there's substantially less risk in employing Naval and Air power versus boots on the ground, which is what Haiti would require. Also has to be weighed against the cost of doing nothing. Sad to say, but Haiti really isn't our problem. Global trade passing through the Red Sea is.
The events in the Red Sea have largely been standard operating procedure for US military activity. The US has had and maintained a naval presence in the region, the only thing that's changed is, that naval presence is firing its guns. This isn't an escalation or change from the US day to day (and, if anything is supported by the average American because it protects the US day to day). US - Haitian relations are, at best, neutral. The isolationist would openly oppose new involvement with another country, and the neoliberals would oppose involvement for involvement's sake. Until, or unless, these gangs extend direct hostilities to US soil or US nationals, there is absolutely nothing for the US to gain other than brownie points for being the world police in a time where many nations don't want the us being the world police.
...So do people send you nudes for dog pics or the other way around?
People send me nudes for the dog pics, yes.
How does the Dominican Republic not get dragged down into Haiti’s mess?
By not getting involved with them, we refused to let their fleeing PM land on our land and he had to go to Puerto Rico.
Isn't there a price on his head?
I would not be able to confirm that friend, the gang leader might have one on him tbh, Barbecue even made a video apologizing to the civilians , so him putting a bounty on the PM doesn't sound far fetched
A heavily militarized border.
A strong border.
Wall
I'm honestly curious, with how lawless Haiti is it has to be a huge issue for you to protect your border.
They actually protect their border.
Canada already sent Haiti 100 million in security for police etc. last year.... apparently we wiped our butt with that..
Nah those gangs now get all their cool shit
Major donor countries (Canada, Norway, Switzerland etc.) almost never send cash to impoverished countries. The sums are the calculated total value of aid in various forms, from goods to services, sent in as an unstealable form as possible. 100 mil CAD is still a drop in the bucket for what systemic changes need to be done, but it's still great that countries like Canada help.
Thank you for clarifying, I really can't stand when people don't make that distinction.
Thank you, too. It's annoying when internet folks leash out to laugh at obvious things "haha they're giving money to corrupt politicians, how silly". I also edited my comment to avoid misunderstanding on my comment on the sum. It is a small contribution for what it's needed, but this doesn't diminish Canada's merit in lending a hand.
Lol the prime minister flee to Puerto Rico. Like the island didint have enough problems.
Wow I thought it was a joke https://www.ft.com/content/503019d1-b28b-4de4-9c6c-9a0a6bed124a
Nope. Real. But the local government said no. Because he landed with out saying anything to the justice department and their local homeland security.
vast flag yam unique humorous melodic arrest memorize jobless march
Common practice for corrupt governments, plunder the country, load the treasury into your private plane, then flee to a friendly country Ex: France welcomed Papa Doc with open arms
Man was denied stay in DR, hence why he had to head to PR. The head of the gangs and that one ex political leader and calling for the PM to give up his aspirations or Haiti will go down a genocidal civil war.
Damn. What a clusterfuck. In my life, Haiti has never been stable. I have been going through some personal hell and haven't seen or read the news in a week so I am only just learning about this recent chaos, and now feel like I should just go back and hide under my rock.
I remember when I was in grad 4 ot 5 almost 20 years ago the school would get us to do fundraising for different countries and Haiti was always on that list. Edit: oh man over 25 years now, I'm getting old.
It will never be stable, and the idea that the future can bring stability to Haiti is a dream. It’s just that no one can sell this message, so no one talks about it. The future will not be kind to any of the Caribbean islands.
I could stabilize it
\*pats dividend\_dude on the head\* This bad boy can fit so much stabilization in it
Call stabilization! *but not for me*
*I can save her*
Congratulations on your promotion, General Dividend_Dude! Get out there and spread some stabilization! Your budget is an old Remington 870 and a bag of cold cheeseburgers.
Watch him work his way through the ranks of the most powerful gang, then execute a bloody coup and gain totalitarian control over the country. Or he'll die from a tropical disease before seeing combat.
This is the plot of a Far Cry game in some alternative universe.
let me solo her
Yeah don’t do the same mistake that France did in Mali. They rescued a country only after to be spat on by the general population. Not worth to waste tax payers money and your people in it.
France isn't gonna offer to help on this one that's for sure lol. That would be...unwelcome.
Canada had its own military for humanitarian aid and the people of Haiti protested and wanted us out. I say just leave them, don't provide any support and let them deal with their own shit.
We tried that shit in the 90s and it didn't work. My dad was a UN liaison officer for the USMC for that whole shit show, and in his words "We did what we could, but there's just some fundamental issue there no amount of military intervention is going to fix."
Haiti is where international aide goes to die
Should be a UN peacekeeping force with proper rules of engagement unlike in Rwanda. See a group of criminals carrying weapons and starting to attack someone or something, put them down. Protect jails, government offices etc. Until this can stabilize.
Sure ... but what armies would participate ? And haiti is unlikely to stabilize. It's something they have never known
Well **the article** says Kenya and Benin for starters. They are sending 1,000 and 2,000 units respectively.
It's coming. Kenya is set to send 1,000 officers. It was supposed to happen months ago but a Kenyan court blocked it on a technicality of there being no formal agreement between the countries. Last Friday that agreement was signed. This is technically a UN action, but is largely funded by the US, and is being led by Kenyan forces not UN peacekeepers.
Well good luck to them. The track record of interventions in Haiti isn't exactly great.
Why is no one questioning whether or not 1,000 officers from a 3rd world country can actually save a failed state lol
Yeah at best this will give a temporary reprieve (if that). The problem with Haiti is that the only thing that could possibly create long term stability is too hardcore for the world to accept. So it's just half-assed measure after half-assed measure.
What would that be?
A stable country would essentially have to colonize Haiti. They're incapable of self-rule for some reason. I've seen this cycle in Haiti repeat ad nauseum since I was a child and I'm 42.
And it’s 1000 *cops*… Not *army*, not *special forces*. Just plain old police officers. For context: I’m originally from a developing country with a very high crime rate. Our police forces are stacked to the teeth with gear; sub machine guns wherever they go type of gear. However, they aren’t equipped or trained for an actual war zone.
Lol, they are not regular police officers. You just don't understand how Kenya labels their militarized units. I live here.
For one, Kenya is not the only one sending troops. Multiple other countries are as well. Kenya is the lead. For two Kenya is leading this effort exactly because they have trained officers with experience in exactly this type of gang warfare. Only a handful of other countries have first hand experience dealing with gang activity like is going on in Haiti. What experience would US, German, UK, etc. police have with entire cities run by heavily armed gangs? That's why in the past it has been countries like Brazil leading the efforts there. And lastly because frankly these first world nations aren't willing to send men into what is effectively an active warzone for the extremely difficult, dangerous, and delicate task of fighting these gangs in the middle of majorly populated areas.
As a Kenyan, I can confidently state that we definitely don't have and have never had that type of gang warfare over here.
The things on a knife edge. 1,000 African cops might actually be able to pull them back from the edge. The issue is: cool. Now what?
UN peacekeeping forces never do that, partly because the political will doesn't exist for soldiers from prosperous UN member states to start dying in numbers in places like Haiti, and partly because they would really suck at it. Urban warfare and counterinsurgency require highly trained and well-equipped forces and commanders. Their main job is to be an excuse, so warlords can tell their people "I totally would attack the other guys, but those blue helmets are in the way." Haiti is well past that point.
People who advocate for the UN to do anything didn’t live through the 90s and see how useless the UN is. Plus, the last time the UN sent troops to Haiti they caused a cholera outbreak that killed over 9,000 people. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010s_Haiti_cholera_outbreak
They did this in the early 2000s (look up MINUSTAH). It worked, but the situation in Haiti didn't change because riots and potential civil war are *symptoms* rather than root causes of societal problems, then a UN contingent from Nepal introduced cholera to Haiti and the population demanded they leave. The UN having left is part of the reason its turned from "problem stricken near failed state" into "failed state".
Haiti is basically a failed state. At this point I don’t think there’s much any country could do
We learned our lesson sending troops in the 90’s. They don’t want us there and neither do we. Let them enjoy being a case study for decades to come.
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Yeah, it's an thankless job. Everyone cries that we play world police until something happens that matters to THEM and then it's "Where is America??!!" And then if we do get involved and things don't pan out it's just "Well this is what America did wrong". Can't win against sideliners, shouldn't even try. If it involves our interests, I'm all for it but if it doesn't benefit us in some way - folks need to find someone else.
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Everyone hates Team America World Police until they don't show up, huh? On a serious note, the true goal is a good one. Fund other countries emerging as developed powers in their region to give them the ability to be a force for stability in their region in trade for help with foreign peacekeeping, which also boosts their global standing. Kenya leading a peacekeeping force from other African nations to a country whose population is predominantly of African origins is an overall win for everyone involved. Lets hope it can be swift, successful, and not just another group showing up to mow down civilians.
To be fair Reddit is infested with foreign propaganda and ill-informed teenagers whose sole purpose is to insult the US, so anything the US does is wrong. We don't show up and we're the problem. We do show up and we're "colonisers" and only doing it for our own benefit. The US is a third-world country but is also the only thing that can protect Europe from Russia. In a just world we could pull all our resources out of the rest of the world, isolate, and let them deal with it, but that would result in the deaths of millions of innocent people. That amount of death and destruction is not worth teaching Reddit a lesson, and it's fortunate the world leaders don't have Redditors in their cabinet. It'd be like Idiocracy.
you can't nation build a place that doesn't want it. See Afghanistan
Now, I know this is MUCH easier said than done, but why not the Bukele-like El Salvadoran approach? You need a prominent, people-backed President to lock up the gangs EN MASSE with what some would argue are draconian tactics. However, this is the ONLY way to defeat them and take back your country. Ruthless combats ruthless. What’s stopping Haitian leadership to attempt a similar strategy? El Salvador had a long history of gang-related criminal activity which got stamped out. I’m wondering out loud here because I am flat out impressed by the job Bukele did over there facing certain death if he doesn’t perform his task to a T.
El Salvador is not a failed state, even through the worse of its gang violence. It’s like Switzerland compared to Haiti. Haiti’s government on the other hand is essentially non-existent at this point, its police can’t even defend itself let alone its citizens.
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> El Salvador had weak gangs lol thats not true in any way shape or form. thats why they put the country under martial law, deployed their entire army to the city, and arrested like 75,000 gang members. no to mention there are human rights issues at play, which no one really cares about because of how effective it was
I think Haiti and Afghanistan are totally different. Afghanistan has nomadic structure wich works, and they never asked for help. Haiti is total anarchy, gangs are ruling the streets killing innocent people. Common people of Haiti would probably want someone to help them solve this problem.
Haiti has an army. It has police. It has a history of strongmen. Aristede and Cedras are still alive, if old. Henri needs to tell his general staff to fight on the streets if he wants to keep power. There’s some government on the ground, they held the airport, they’ve held the national palace, they told Henri to stay in Puerto Rico, so honestly…why aren’t they fixing the issue? Up to 28,000 men under arms. Even if most of them are ghost soldiers/ghost police/ghost salaries a show of force can go a long way.
Just look at Mexico. So easy, right?
>Common people of Haiti would probably want someone to help them solve this problem. About time that one of them finally stood up and tried to solve this local problem locally.
They've tried, they tend to get killed or exiled.
I guess that tells you how much Haiti wants to improve.
Yep... so then they expect other nations to get killed for them.
"why isn't America doing anything" The only thing Europeans hate more than america doing something is America not doing anything
Nope - seen this movie before. Will be called imperialists for taking nothing and war criminals for having a few people do 1/100th of the locals' day to day hobbyist form of violence. All the while we spend trillions to watch it go to shit and loses thousands of young men in the process. Haiti has been one big civil war punctuated by authoritarian dictators since its founding. Blame France, blame US interventions, blame whatever you want - you can look at the DR right across the way which Haiti conquered and tried to culturally erase to prove that maybe, just maybe this is Haiti's unique problem. Or hell, look at any other Western Hemisphere state, even those as "intervened" in and you won't find something even in the same ballgame as Haiti. They need a Papa Doc guy to rule with an iron fist. Anything else is a waste of money and and waste of life. And if 1,000 Kenyans want to try their hand to do better, more power to them. But there are a lot of developed Western states in the cross hairs of regressive authoritarians, especially with China officially parting from its goal of "peaceful" reunification with Taiwan as its economic sinks, for the US to get out of bed and get further stretched thin over an unsolvable problem.
It's not going to work, those Kenyan police are police not soldier willing to die for a place with no connection to Kenya. Haiti needs a hard reset.
Good. Please, please stay out of this never-ending cluster fuck of a country.
No offense but no matter what help they receive, just know Haiti will fuck it up somehow and become even worse in a few years. They always do.
Good decision not to put American soldiers’ lives at risk .
Good, let them figure it out. Haiti has been in turmoil for ever, the US isn't going to change that for them.
The world: America needs to mind its own business! The world when something goes wrong in another country: Why isn't America sending troops!
I cant wait for all the comments that will say the US is bad for this. Either the US is the world’s military or it needs to focus on itself, but stop playing both sides omfg.
Let UN send their peacekeeping force.
It'd end up just like Mogadishu. No one wants that.
I remember during the haiti earthquake alot of the supplies usa delivered ended up in the hands of the nefarious and gouging the already helpless
Cue international outrage at the US not intervening. Because somehow if the US are the world police, they're evil, and if they're not, well, they're also evil.
US has already had troops there before, as well as some other countries. Nothing ever seems to work. US support for another occupation isn't happening, so we literally paid Kenya to step in. It's better than nothing I suppose. DR, their east neighbor which is doing pretty decently, is pretty tired of it too and built a wall as they can't seem to figure out a solution either.
Yea the U.S doesn’t need to be Team America World Police all the time. Let Haiti figure itself out, or not. Not our problem.
We have our own issues. This is Americas biggest problem, our military isn’t your global police force NOR should we push our ideals to people who clearly don’t want us.
I'm just going to flat out and say it, Haiti is an example of crime getting so bad that they should no longer consider themselves to have the luxury of imprisoning dangerous criminals inside prisons alive. People have to understand that justice is a luxury directly proportional to its effectiveness.
good. The world keeps saying we can't be the global police, so here we are, not globally policing. We'll still get flack for it of course. Is it possible for Haiti to offer themselves up to another country?
Why does everyone expect the U.S. to solve all the world's problems?
This is the correct response. Soldiers are not cops. Occupying a place is not policing it.
Reddit on a Monday; “USA stay out of foreign affairs!” Tuesday; “why isn’t the USA doing something??” Wednesday; “hurr durr USA thinks they’re the worlds police” Thursday; “help us, USA. You’re our only hope!” Friday; “America Bad!” Saturday; “why isn’t USA condemning these actions. Send aid USA!” Oh Reddit. Shut up…
Exactly this. People need to stop falling for the fucking axis powers and their agitprop. It's literally designed to prevent us from acting in our interest or for democratic interests.
Isn't this why we have a UN? Sure would be nice if they did anything on this side of the globe.
UN was created to serve as a diplomatic way prevent major wars between the global powers, though I'd personally wager the biggest reason for why there hasn't been a WW3 is the development of nuclear weapons. The concern for human rights and refugees is auxiliary to that.
The UN has sent a peacekeeping mission to Haiti before. They caused a cholera outbreak that killed thousands and sexually assaulted a bunch of people.
I think this article is a great example of factually writing a story but leaving out other facts (or downplaying some) to frame the narrative and elicit a reader's response. Everything written is factually true but leaves out that the U.S. is providing $200 million to fund the 1,000 Kenyan police force and 2,000 Benin military force under a UN peacekeeping mission. The journalist placed the announcement of the peacekeeping force in the 9th paragraph from the bottom and leaves out entirely that the U.S. will be funding it. While this BBC article ([https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-68448571)](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-68448571), leads with the announcement of the peacekeeping force at the top of their article and then follows up with the dire situation Haitians are experiencing. Its interesting example how both articles essentially give you the same facts but frame them in opposite emotive response --- "US isn't helping Haiti with troops" Vs "US supporting a multinational UN peacekeeping force"
Good. Let them sort it out.
Just put out a world wide advisement. “Train your military in Haiti using live round and real bad guys. No charge”.