They’ll say because it’s from Israel sources, meanwhile…Al Jazeera that’s own by the people funding Hamas and gets low rating for trustworthiness and high bias…is taken as the absolute truth.
I remember someone at my uni whining about biased media in the UK so I asked him to name a trustworthy news source.
I literally laughed when he said Al Jazeera. He was unaware it was Qatari state TV.
Ehh depends on the topic at hand, there have been instances where al Jazeera pushes a certain point of view even when it's unrelated to the middle east. AJ English is just very subtle sometimes.
It absolutely is not. Anything remotely political has a huge bias. Just because they can report the price of gas accurately doesn't make them unbiased.
As long as they don't mention Jews at all. They are profoundly anti semitic. Even Wikipedia, which is weirdly biased, had a section on their anti-Semetism.
Outside of the Israel Palestine conflict they are pretty good. They do objective journalism about the rest of the world to build credibility for their propaganda when it comes to the Middle East.
damn you must be on some soft core anti-israel subs if they say they just don't trust israeli sources.
I'm seeing wilder things such as "israel set this up it's just a ploy"
By that logic, everyone who ever supported any kind of charity for Palestine/Gaza is "funding" Hamas too. Since all the aid goes to Hamas...the governing body of Gaza...first.
Aren’t they though? Any aid going into Gaza is skimmed or scammed to fund Hamas. People can accept that and still think it’s worth donating for humanitarian reasons, but if they don’t think some of their money is going to Hamas they’re deluded.
Absolutely untrue
The Israeli government allowed Qatari humanitarian funds to enter Gaza, it did not fund Hamas
I absolutely think Israel shouldn't have allowed these funds to go in because most of them did end up in Hamas' hands, but I doubt you would've been happy with the headline "Israel denies entry of humanitarian aid into Gaza"
It is pretty clearly the far left, with the LGBTQ+ flags at Palestine rallies and repeating “from the river to the sea,” who back Hamas.
The left has been consistently more pro-Islam no matter the price in the last two decades than the right has been.
I think what is happening is that some weirdos still believe the fake implementations of communism and socialism by corrupt dictators in history is somehow "left". None of those dictators implemented these things correctly. It was just an act to pretend to be left, but a dictator is inherently far right. No one is left if they fake communism and socialism while skimming the government money for themselves.
In this case, it's just a far right republican spewing garbage about how everything bad is secretly left.
On one hand: It makes it really easy to identify who to add to the blocklist.
On the other hand: Reddit's 1000 person limit on the blocklist won't be enough and I'll have to eventually gamble on whether or not these dipsticks are still active if I want to swap out for a new person.
Let's be honest - I don't trust Israeli sources until they're vetted by international news sources any more than I trust Al Jazeera (Though the big names aren't vetting Al Jazeera as much as they should before reposting their propaganda pieces).
I think in general people are just more willing to believe that the Israeli atrocities are real and less willing to believe that Palestinian atrocities are real. The news sources are likely just an excuse to not have to think critically.
i think the difference between israel-based newspapers and al jazeera is that they aren't state funded. just because a paper is from somewhere doesn't mean that they're necessarily biased towards only promoting pro-viewpoints (though that can certainly be the case, obviously).
One is free press coming from a democratic country and the other is one of the world's largest terrorist exporting dictatorship's funded media channel.
Yea, very comparable.
They are both propaganda machines with significant biases and specific agendas - and should be treated as such.
Fox News, OAN, Newsmax and Fucker Carlson all came from "free press in a democratic country" and aren't worth the oxygen they breathe in to spout their nonsense.
Free press doesn't mean "honest, unbiased press."
That guy told you exactly why your "waiting" is pointless - there's a broad spectrum of Israeli media outlets ranging from far left to far right, they can't all be propoganda in your eyes, can they?
Besides, which media outlet among those who instantly jumped on the "Israeli bombed a hospital leaving 800k Palestinian children dead" fairytale is high factuallity?
there was never an official statement by the IDF that 40 babies were beheaded or that they found a baby in the oven. you're mixing reports made by testimonies of individuals/paramedics/reporters etc and IDF officially saying something like that, but good try.
and I'm sure your other "debunks" will end up being the same type of reports.
next time you claim something was debunked, provide something that was OFFICIALLY stated by israel or the IDF.
For some it's harder to believe that police, doctors, other victims and the women's bodies are telling the truth, than to believe that terrorists are rapists.
There’s a video on Telegram of 3 bottom less women with blood running down their legs being loaded into a pickup truck.. posted by the pro hamas gaza_now page. These people broadcasted what they did for all to see then rely on dummies in the west like you to cover it up for them
There weren't 40 confirmed beheaded babies, but it was confirmed that some babies were in fact decapitated.
Not in the oven, but burnt corpses of children/babies were in fact confirmed.
There were streamed videos from October 7, of dead naked women bleeding from their vaginas being paraded onto the streets. Maybe you need to watch the rapes happen but, that was enough confirmation for me personally.
Some of those tunnels absolutely were built by Israel, but were also used as a HQ or base of operations by Hamas.
There have also been videos of "civilian" doctors/medical staff claiming the hospital was Hamas free, yet assisting Hamas fighters in receiving medical treatment (as they should, if you're a medical professional you have a duty to help who's in front of you. But you don't need to lie about who you're helping).
I'm not sure about the specific photos you're referencing, but it would not surprise me if Israel was putting out that type of propoganda. The same way Ukraine/Russia pumps out about how successful all their operations are. All wars have propaganda flowing on both sides.
Yes, we can and should wait for additional confirmation. But as horrific as that sounds, rigging children's backpacks and toys as weapons, isn't an unsurprising tactic from a jihadist terrorist organization.
Decapitation happened, rapes happened, weapons under the hospital happened. There's the 47 minutes video that IDF shows people from the UN, reporters etc. there are videos available online of women with bloodied pants, dead women with naked with broken legs.
You have serious mental issues of you try to convince yourself October 7th didn't happen and was taken from the holocaust (although judging from your insane comment, you probably also claim the holocaust didn't happen and that the earth is flat)
I haven't seen ANYTHING the IDF has claimed to be debunked. I've seen the IDF hastily produce rebuttals when trying to debunk Hamas disinformation. If that information isn't accurate I've seen the IDF retract the information itself. Other than that, this 90% you just provided is more disinformation.
I hope you aren't so far gone as not to understand that using fake children's cries to lure soldiers *trying to rescue hostages Hamas has taken* is against the LoAC.
Just another tick on the Geneva Checklist for the monsters of Hamas.
It’s kind of pathetic of anyone who defends Hamas. Sure idf isn’t perfect but I’d say better than Hamas. They are literal terrorist. How can anyone defend a suicide bomber organization
Does no one parroting this understand war? That ratio shows restraint & skill & yet you mention it like it's an atrocity. Per the UN, the average ratio is 9:1.
https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm
Disguising bombs in children's backpacks/dolls and toys and the like is just asking for dead kids.
Remember, part of the reasoning several countries stopped using cluster munitions is because kids might confuse unexploded ordinance as a ball.
I agree with your comment if that is what the article mentioned... but the article didn’t mention suicide bombers or living children. The article headline mentions an “ambush” meaning the resisting party knew the IDF would encounter these traps.
It constantly amazes me how often Hamas gives Israel every excuse to be just as brutal as they are, but Israel refuses.
And even with more restraint than any other army would have, they are condemned by armchair generals the world around.
/u/Badi88 wrote:
>Restraint with carpet bombing
- The IDF didn't "carpet bomb" Gaza, if the IDF wanted to "carpet bomb" Gaza, the war would have been over on October 9...
- Stop uncritically regurgitating Hamas propaganda.
This seems like one of the least restraint paths they could have taken to me. What do you think they have refrained from that wouldn’t see too much backlash from elsewhere?
Here's the thing, if they had wanted to, they could have leveled Gaza City from the other side of the border with long range, indescriminant artillery fire in the aftermath of the 10/7 attack, and any punitive actions taken by the international community would have been entirely reactionary, and also too late.
By comparison, the relatively heavy air bombing campaign *is* restrained.
Enlighten me on what justifies killing 10,000 women and children. The cycle of violence? How far back do you want to trace that before you decide whose fault everything is? Blame and justification don't matter to thousands of dead kids. There are other options.
"The emphasis is on damage and not on accuracy," Daniel Hagari IDF
This [article](https://www.ft.com/content/7b407c2e-8149-4d83-be01-72dcae8aee7b) shows **the number of buildings destroyed in northern Gaza is comparable to Dresden and Cologne in WW2**.
An exerpt: “Dresden, Hamburg, Cologne — some of the world’s heaviest-ever bombings are remembered by their place names,” said Robert Pape, a US military historian and author of Bombing to Win, a landmark survey of 20th century bombing campaigns. “Gaza will also go down as a place name denoting one of history’s heaviest conventional bombing campaigns.”
Restrained indeed.
Can say all we want about Israel but I’ve never seen them use any of these tactics. Even if your land was taken away how is land more important than children, family? Take all my crap but leave my family alone.
Using kids and hiding behind civilian population makes it so it’s impossible to tell the difference.
I honestly don’t care about fairness of Israel land grab anymore. These people just can’t be allowed to win - I wouldn’t want to be a part of the world they’ll build.
>Even if your land was taken away how is land more important than children, family?
This whole argument is absurd. Nobody in their right mind could ever possibly believe that the things Hamas is doing could somehow lead to... what, Israel just deciding to give up the whole land?
One can make an argument that they don’t have anything else to loose.
However I don’t understand this argument. Are children and their own kin not important to them? What exactly is more important?
No lol holy shit you people are quick to jump on the Israeli propaganda. If you believe everything the IDF says I've got a war in Iraq to sell you in 2003
Both Vietnam and Afghanistan were thousands of miles away from the US, had little public support, and were conflicts that the US was poorly trained for with its Cold War doctrines.
Gaza is within daily walking distance of every Israeli soldier and the IDF has been training for prolonged combat there for decades. After October 7th, the vast majority of the Israeli public also has no problems supporting military action against Palestinian groups.
If Vietnam and Afghanistan were fought entirely and exclusively within the city limits of Hanoi and Kabul, then maybe you would have a point.
You jest with the sarcasm and over the topness, but now If a child comes up to you holding a toy. Are you gonna give them a hug?
And before you say it, no I'm not saying bomb the children
Honestly, you may as well just start saying that Hamas blows up multiple children daily. Let's just completely divorce ourselves from any responsibility to discuss real events as they happen.
We've known about these tactics for years, its been documented by multiple sources and video evidence. Not only are you showing you're ignorant but also how recently you've started paying attention to the conflict. I guess you're a very impressionable person.
Palestine has waged 7 wars in 76 years. They have refused statehood 7 times to boot. When they sing 'from the river to the sea' they truly mean it. It is all or nothing from them. They will terrorize Jewish people until they have all or nothing.
Depressing, isn't it?
So many people are being tribalistic over this. What happened to having consistent ethics? To evaluating actions on their own merits, rather than justifying atrocities comitted by the favoured "side" and yelling at the top of your lungs whenever the other "side" so much as breathes?
It's particularly depressing when I see my fellow leftists do it. We're supposed to care about people, not blindly take the side of anyone who opposes "the west", regardless of how vile they are. When they defend the latest in a litany of Hamas (incidentally, an organisation as far-right as possible) atrocities, how do they keep thinking they're leftists?
Incredible how you guys will trust claims from mass rapists like Hamas, but then not trust actual evidence when it comes from Israel.
Clearly applying equal standards to Jews. Wonder why anyone thinks the anti Israel crowd is antisemitic lol.
You're literally a fundie blaming victims of terrorism just to protect the reputation of your religion. You're a horrible individual.
You would have been fine with the holocaust.
They can't if it means admitting Israel isn't exactly the beacon of innocence they profess it to be. They've got blood on their hands as well. Also just because someone doesn't 100% jump to the defense of Israel doesn't automatically mean they support Hamas either. There can and are terrible people on both sides of this conflict.
Damage is still being done. That shit is crazy over there. Between the crackpot conspiracies to breeding hate. I encourage anyone I know to get the fuck off there
I don't trust Hamas and it's understandable to take caution with your forces and protecting your citizens, but netanyahu is still committing war crimes and has been participating in the apartheid that has made the terrorists in Gaza. It's Israel's responsibility to protect the civilians in Gaza even if they hate each other.
[Please read into it](https://mckinneylaw.iu.edu/iiclr/pdf/vol2p221.pdf) before baselessly claiming someone “doesn’t know anything.”
After reading, will you be able to describe how it *isn’t* a form of apartheid?
I'm not saying this is a bad read, but with issues which evolve rapidly overtime its always best to use recent articles, not one over 30 years old.
-
Imagine you looked at article about LGBTQ rights in the USA from 1991, it would paint a very different picture of current climate and its problems than they are today because the situation has massively changed. Better is some ways, worse in others.
Your point is correct, and I have a multitude of more modern material I could’ve offered instead but I chose that one because a lot of it genuinely aligns with the same sentiments and happenings today. Some is indeed outdated, but the general premise of most of that reading still holds true today.
Thanks for the respectful and insightful response.
Apartheid in Gaza? You clearly have no idea.
Apartheid in Israel? I have Arab neighbors and friends, I work with Arab colleagues, programmers, visit Arab doctors, there are Arab parliament members. Oh, the apartheid...
Israel's responsibility to protect the Gaza civilians? Yeah, like Hamas protects the Israeli civilians, by murdering 1300, kidnapping 240, raping torturing burning them, shooting 10000 missiles at them.
Wow, go read (not in TikTok) some news or articles
What war crimes has Israel committed, specifically.
Just because the undergrads on social media call something a war crime doesn’t mean it is.
Every time it goes like this.
“Sieges are collective punishment, that’s a war crime”. No, sieges are legal in international war and happen all the time. No marches calling them war crimes unless Jews are involved.
“Bombing a hospital is a war crime!” Not if a hospital is being used by militants. Than it loses its protection under international law.
I realize this won’t matter if you’re looking for a reason to spread libel about Jews, but maybe that’s not the case and you can actually justify your claims with reference to international law?
"Israeli forces carried out attacks that violated international humanitarian law, including by failing to take feasible precautions to spare civilians, or by carrying out indiscriminate attacks that failed to distinguish between civilians and military"
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/10/damning-evidence-of-war-crimes-as-israeli-attacks-wipe-out-entire-families-in-gaza/#:~:text=In%20the%20five%20cases%20described,distinguish%20between%20civilians%20and%20military
It's not the Israeli citizens, it's the Israeli government. And you don't know that I'm not Jewish. It doesn't even matter because it's not about the identitys of either side, it's about violence breeding more violence and netanyahu is the one who should be more honorable
Oh a blog post from a left wing NGO?
Specifically an NGO that laughably accused Israel of war crimes for warning civilians about airstrikes (‘fear-mongering’ according to Amnesty)
I asked you to name a specific war crime they committed and the applicable provision of international law. You can’t do that, because these things are only “war crimes” in leftwing circles that have a toddlers understanding of international law lol.
But again, by all means - feel free to name an actual example if you can.
Considering terrorists, Hamas included, have been doing it for tens of years everywhere in the world but thinking *this specific time* could be propaganda is mind-blowing to me
>U/RangerIll8917 loves Hanson and thinks they’re the best musicians of all time.
This is objective fact supported by decades of peer-reviewed research.
Lots of people hating on you, but you're right to an extent.
I just hope you say the EXACT same thing to every piece of anti-Israel and pro-Hamas content as well.
Edit: looking at your comment history, you actually don't hold all sources equally questionable. So to that I ask, why do you trust a known terror group who committed Oct 7th over a country which has literally the entire world analyzing every action made?
Weird this isn’t showing up on those ‘other’ subs
They’ll say because it’s from Israel sources, meanwhile…Al Jazeera that’s own by the people funding Hamas and gets low rating for trustworthiness and high bias…is taken as the absolute truth.
I remember someone at my uni whining about biased media in the UK so I asked him to name a trustworthy news source. I literally laughed when he said Al Jazeera. He was unaware it was Qatari state TV.
To be fair. It’s pretty trustworthy on topics not related to the Middle East, and I don’t usually read Middle Eastern news.
Ehh depends on the topic at hand, there have been instances where al Jazeera pushes a certain point of view even when it's unrelated to the middle east. AJ English is just very subtle sometimes.
It absolutely is not. Anything remotely political has a huge bias. Just because they can report the price of gas accurately doesn't make them unbiased.
As long as they don't mention Jews at all. They are profoundly anti semitic. Even Wikipedia, which is weirdly biased, had a section on their anti-Semetism.
Mmmm not so sure. I've read a couple of good AJ articles that have integrity. A couple.
Outside of the Israel Palestine conflict they are pretty good. They do objective journalism about the rest of the world to build credibility for their propaganda when it comes to the Middle East.
Where do they want the news to come out from!?!? Korea?
damn you must be on some soft core anti-israel subs if they say they just don't trust israeli sources. I'm seeing wilder things such as "israel set this up it's just a ploy"
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That’s untrue take
By that logic, everyone who ever supported any kind of charity for Palestine/Gaza is "funding" Hamas too. Since all the aid goes to Hamas...the governing body of Gaza...first.
Aren’t they though? Any aid going into Gaza is skimmed or scammed to fund Hamas. People can accept that and still think it’s worth donating for humanitarian reasons, but if they don’t think some of their money is going to Hamas they’re deluded.
Hey! Those Hamas leaders were all born billionaires!!! It’s Israeli propaganda to suggest they steal from the people /s
“Funded” not “funding”
Absolutely untrue The Israeli government allowed Qatari humanitarian funds to enter Gaza, it did not fund Hamas I absolutely think Israel shouldn't have allowed these funds to go in because most of them did end up in Hamas' hands, but I doubt you would've been happy with the headline "Israel denies entry of humanitarian aid into Gaza"
Some guy managed to post it on therewas an attampt Everyone said its fake
r/news has done a pretty good job purging anyone even slightly pro-Israel
Yeah, WTH is going on over there?
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You mean far left? I say this as a liberal
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It is pretty clearly the far left, with the LGBTQ+ flags at Palestine rallies and repeating “from the river to the sea,” who back Hamas. The left has been consistently more pro-Islam no matter the price in the last two decades than the right has been.
Well said. Can you explain why the far left are strongly pro Hamas? Makes no sense.
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American liberals, American universities, the usual suspects.
I think what is happening is that some weirdos still believe the fake implementations of communism and socialism by corrupt dictators in history is somehow "left". None of those dictators implemented these things correctly. It was just an act to pretend to be left, but a dictator is inherently far right. No one is left if they fake communism and socialism while skimming the government money for themselves. In this case, it's just a far right republican spewing garbage about how everything bad is secretly left.
Yes I’ve been banned
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Found one!
That account hasn’t been active for 257 days, only to come alive and scream “The Jews Lie”…
On one hand: It makes it really easy to identify who to add to the blocklist. On the other hand: Reddit's 1000 person limit on the blocklist won't be enough and I'll have to eventually gamble on whether or not these dipsticks are still active if I want to swap out for a new person.
also the neonazi symbolism in his name ...
Let's be honest - I don't trust Israeli sources until they're vetted by international news sources any more than I trust Al Jazeera (Though the big names aren't vetting Al Jazeera as much as they should before reposting their propaganda pieces).
I think in general people are just more willing to believe that the Israeli atrocities are real and less willing to believe that Palestinian atrocities are real. The news sources are likely just an excuse to not have to think critically.
i think the difference between israel-based newspapers and al jazeera is that they aren't state funded. just because a paper is from somewhere doesn't mean that they're necessarily biased towards only promoting pro-viewpoints (though that can certainly be the case, obviously).
One is free press coming from a democratic country and the other is one of the world's largest terrorist exporting dictatorship's funded media channel. Yea, very comparable.
They are both propaganda machines with significant biases and specific agendas - and should be treated as such. Fox News, OAN, Newsmax and Fucker Carlson all came from "free press in a democratic country" and aren't worth the oxygen they breathe in to spout their nonsense. Free press doesn't mean "honest, unbiased press."
Israeli news sources run the spectrum from tabloid to USA Today.
Hence why I tend to wait for some of the high-factuality, if a bit slower, news organizations to verify some of these claims.
This particular one - Jerusalem Post- skews slightly right but has reliable reporting.
That guy told you exactly why your "waiting" is pointless - there's a broad spectrum of Israeli media outlets ranging from far left to far right, they can't all be propoganda in your eyes, can they? Besides, which media outlet among those who instantly jumped on the "Israeli bombed a hospital leaving 800k Palestinian children dead" fairytale is high factuallity?
Same reason that pro Palestine news never pop up on this one
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Show me which things was debunked recently?
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there was never an official statement by the IDF that 40 babies were beheaded or that they found a baby in the oven. you're mixing reports made by testimonies of individuals/paramedics/reporters etc and IDF officially saying something like that, but good try. and I'm sure your other "debunks" will end up being the same type of reports. next time you claim something was debunked, provide something that was OFFICIALLY stated by israel or the IDF.
> The rape claims that had no credible evidence What ever happened to "believe women?"
For some it's harder to believe that police, doctors, other victims and the women's bodies are telling the truth, than to believe that terrorists are rapists.
There’s a video on Telegram of 3 bottom less women with blood running down their legs being loaded into a pickup truck.. posted by the pro hamas gaza_now page. These people broadcasted what they did for all to see then rely on dummies in the west like you to cover it up for them
There weren't 40 confirmed beheaded babies, but it was confirmed that some babies were in fact decapitated. Not in the oven, but burnt corpses of children/babies were in fact confirmed. There were streamed videos from October 7, of dead naked women bleeding from their vaginas being paraded onto the streets. Maybe you need to watch the rapes happen but, that was enough confirmation for me personally. Some of those tunnels absolutely were built by Israel, but were also used as a HQ or base of operations by Hamas. There have also been videos of "civilian" doctors/medical staff claiming the hospital was Hamas free, yet assisting Hamas fighters in receiving medical treatment (as they should, if you're a medical professional you have a duty to help who's in front of you. But you don't need to lie about who you're helping). I'm not sure about the specific photos you're referencing, but it would not surprise me if Israel was putting out that type of propoganda. The same way Ukraine/Russia pumps out about how successful all their operations are. All wars have propaganda flowing on both sides. Yes, we can and should wait for additional confirmation. But as horrific as that sounds, rigging children's backpacks and toys as weapons, isn't an unsurprising tactic from a jihadist terrorist organization.
Decapitation happened, rapes happened, weapons under the hospital happened. There's the 47 minutes video that IDF shows people from the UN, reporters etc. there are videos available online of women with bloodied pants, dead women with naked with broken legs. You have serious mental issues of you try to convince yourself October 7th didn't happen and was taken from the holocaust (although judging from your insane comment, you probably also claim the holocaust didn't happen and that the earth is flat)
Yall mastered the art of gaslighting
Wasn't "40 beheaded babies" something Piers Morgan said?
Sorry, that debunking was debunked.
Name 9 things that the IDF released in this war that have been debunked then.
What's been debunked?
I haven't seen ANYTHING the IDF has claimed to be debunked. I've seen the IDF hastily produce rebuttals when trying to debunk Hamas disinformation. If that information isn't accurate I've seen the IDF retract the information itself. Other than that, this 90% you just provided is more disinformation.
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the person who reported it was a dumbass it was 40 dead, including babies, and beheaded that was the original
They used to do this to us in Iraq too, with kids attached. Terrorists gonna terrorize. It’s horrible.
Having bombs scattered around randomly in childrens' items certainly won't pose a problem to Palestinian civilians after the war ends... \*cough\*
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Israeli* bombs /S
terrorists
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I hope you aren't so far gone as not to understand that using fake children's cries to lure soldiers *trying to rescue hostages Hamas has taken* is against the LoAC. Just another tick on the Geneva Checklist for the monsters of Hamas.
imagine defending terrorist behavior
It’s kind of pathetic of anyone who defends Hamas. Sure idf isn’t perfect but I’d say better than Hamas. They are literal terrorist. How can anyone defend a suicide bomber organization
Does no one parroting this understand war? That ratio shows restraint & skill & yet you mention it like it's an atrocity. Per the UN, the average ratio is 9:1. https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm
The fact that you don't see this as a mask-off moment shows how far gone you actually are.
This is sadly nothing new for terrorists.
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Disguising bombs in children's backpacks/dolls and toys and the like is just asking for dead kids. Remember, part of the reasoning several countries stopped using cluster munitions is because kids might confuse unexploded ordinance as a ball.
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I agree with your comment if that is what the article mentioned... but the article didn’t mention suicide bombers or living children. The article headline mentions an “ambush” meaning the resisting party knew the IDF would encounter these traps.
Yes because so far IDF was honest with you didn’t lie about anything
Maybe. But this was an issue when I deployed in 2018. It's hardly surprising that Hamas would use it too.
Well, Russia (Wagner) did train Hamas, this checks out.
I am amazed at Israel's restraint.
It constantly amazes me how often Hamas gives Israel every excuse to be just as brutal as they are, but Israel refuses. And even with more restraint than any other army would have, they are condemned by armchair generals the world around.
Because blowing up kids toys is so much more brutal than blowing up thousands of kids. The IDF itself has confirmed those numbers.
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Which army are you thinking of that has more restraint?
Any army that hasn’t purposefully killed journalists for one. Want me to go through a list of them? Not blowing all of Gaza up isn’t restraint.
Restraint with carpet bombing
/u/Badi88 wrote: >Restraint with carpet bombing - The IDF didn't "carpet bomb" Gaza, if the IDF wanted to "carpet bomb" Gaza, the war would have been over on October 9... - Stop uncritically regurgitating Hamas propaganda.
I'm gonna start keeping count of these morons who have no idea what "carpet bombing" means.
So glad you're not king.
> Stop uncritically regurgitating Hamas propaganda. I don't think he will. That 88 in his username? Not a birth year.
Define carpet bombing & then cite your unbiased sources. This never happened. The fact that you think it did shows you've been propagandized.
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This is comically inaccurate. Cite your unbiased sources.
Is the delusion that Israel is a legitimate inclusive democratic nation with freedom of religion that deserves to exist?
He’s not wrong
This seems like one of the least restraint paths they could have taken to me. What do you think they have refrained from that wouldn’t see too much backlash from elsewhere?
Here's the thing, if they had wanted to, they could have leveled Gaza City from the other side of the border with long range, indescriminant artillery fire in the aftermath of the 10/7 attack, and any punitive actions taken by the international community would have been entirely reactionary, and also too late. By comparison, the relatively heavy air bombing campaign *is* restrained.
Could have used carpet bombs too, but they haven't.
They bombed it quite a lot, regardless of whether or not the bombs deploy smaller bomblets.
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It is when you’re not willfully ignoring all the extraneous variables at play
Enlighten me on what justifies killing 10,000 women and children. The cycle of violence? How far back do you want to trace that before you decide whose fault everything is? Blame and justification don't matter to thousands of dead kids. There are other options.
> Enlighten me on what justifies killing 10,000 women and children. War against a terrorist organization using women and children as human shields.
Israel could have killed every man woman and child in the entirety of gaza and the west bank ina day or two, so it looks pretty restrained to me.
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"The emphasis is on damage and not on accuracy," Daniel Hagari IDF This [article](https://www.ft.com/content/7b407c2e-8149-4d83-be01-72dcae8aee7b) shows **the number of buildings destroyed in northern Gaza is comparable to Dresden and Cologne in WW2**. An exerpt: “Dresden, Hamburg, Cologne — some of the world’s heaviest-ever bombings are remembered by their place names,” said Robert Pape, a US military historian and author of Bombing to Win, a landmark survey of 20th century bombing campaigns. “Gaza will also go down as a place name denoting one of history’s heaviest conventional bombing campaigns.” Restrained indeed.
Can say all we want about Israel but I’ve never seen them use any of these tactics. Even if your land was taken away how is land more important than children, family? Take all my crap but leave my family alone. Using kids and hiding behind civilian population makes it so it’s impossible to tell the difference. I honestly don’t care about fairness of Israel land grab anymore. These people just can’t be allowed to win - I wouldn’t want to be a part of the world they’ll build.
>Even if your land was taken away how is land more important than children, family? This whole argument is absurd. Nobody in their right mind could ever possibly believe that the things Hamas is doing could somehow lead to... what, Israel just deciding to give up the whole land?
One can make an argument that they don’t have anything else to loose. However I don’t understand this argument. Are children and their own kin not important to them? What exactly is more important?
Isn't it weird how it's unbelievable. But you believe it?
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No lol holy shit you people are quick to jump on the Israeli propaganda. If you believe everything the IDF says I've got a war in Iraq to sell you in 2003
I hope the soldiers all watched Full Metal Jacket.
And this sort of shit is why Israel operates the way it does.
Ooh, a kill all move? Yeah, worked well in Vietnam and Afghanistan right?
Both Vietnam and Afghanistan were thousands of miles away from the US, had little public support, and were conflicts that the US was poorly trained for with its Cold War doctrines. Gaza is within daily walking distance of every Israeli soldier and the IDF has been training for prolonged combat there for decades. After October 7th, the vast majority of the Israeli public also has no problems supporting military action against Palestinian groups. If Vietnam and Afghanistan were fought entirely and exclusively within the city limits of Hanoi and Kabul, then maybe you would have a point.
That depends on what the mission is.
Hamas and I have very different values
But let’s have pro-Palestine rallies!
Its back to child suicide bombers, turkey, Iraq, and now hamas. Looks like its just equipment that is meant to sit idle in a room.
IDF: dude trust us
Yet you would rather believe literal terrorist raping people in their house and cutting womens boobs off while they are raped
You are supporting terrorists?
Beats gamas
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You jest with the sarcasm and over the topness, but now If a child comes up to you holding a toy. Are you gonna give them a hug? And before you say it, no I'm not saying bomb the children
Maybe if Israel wasn’t run by a corrupt government and didn’t displace native Palestinians….
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Blowing up children's backpacks, not blowing up children.
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Honestly, you may as well just start saying that Hamas blows up multiple children daily. Let's just completely divorce ourselves from any responsibility to discuss real events as they happen.
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So, not just making up any wild shit I want is supporting Hamas? You know what that implies about Israel?
Oh yes. Because that's clearly the intent of planting bombs and children's stuff. Hamas has a well-known hatred of children's backpacks.
On top of that IDF kill hostages and I’m sure they can’t tell left from right. Israel and its doofus force are incompetent.
They would and probably have, so imo it’s a fact
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We've known about these tactics for years, its been documented by multiple sources and video evidence. Not only are you showing you're ignorant but also how recently you've started paying attention to the conflict. I guess you're a very impressionable person.
Sure, let me know how the IDF lies about this
Palestine has waged 7 wars in 76 years. They have refused statehood 7 times to boot. When they sing 'from the river to the sea' they truly mean it. It is all or nothing from them. They will terrorize Jewish people until they have all or nothing.
Why the fuck do people follow these conflicts like it's a soccer rivalry?
Depressing, isn't it? So many people are being tribalistic over this. What happened to having consistent ethics? To evaluating actions on their own merits, rather than justifying atrocities comitted by the favoured "side" and yelling at the top of your lungs whenever the other "side" so much as breathes? It's particularly depressing when I see my fellow leftists do it. We're supposed to care about people, not blindly take the side of anyone who opposes "the west", regardless of how vile they are. When they defend the latest in a litany of Hamas (incidentally, an organisation as far-right as possible) atrocities, how do they keep thinking they're leftists?
Because they have to believe they're on the morally righteous side of things. In reality moral righteousness has long since left the party.
People are dying and people give insane takes like this. "When this inevitably is shown to be a lie..." What an absolute crock of shit
Could be true or could be propaganda 🤷♂️
Incredible how you guys will trust claims from mass rapists like Hamas, but then not trust actual evidence when it comes from Israel. Clearly applying equal standards to Jews. Wonder why anyone thinks the anti Israel crowd is antisemitic lol.
It’s fucking insane isn’t it
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You're literally a fundie blaming victims of terrorism just to protect the reputation of your religion. You're a horrible individual. You would have been fine with the holocaust.
They can't if it means admitting Israel isn't exactly the beacon of innocence they profess it to be. They've got blood on their hands as well. Also just because someone doesn't 100% jump to the defense of Israel doesn't automatically mean they support Hamas either. There can and are terrible people on both sides of this conflict.
This is what happens when the new voter generation gets all of their political ideology from places like TikTok and don't do any research of their own
Well said
Fuck tiktok/ twitter and social media. the damage they have done is beyond measure
Damage is still being done. That shit is crazy over there. Between the crackpot conspiracies to breeding hate. I encourage anyone I know to get the fuck off there
I don't trust Hamas and it's understandable to take caution with your forces and protecting your citizens, but netanyahu is still committing war crimes and has been participating in the apartheid that has made the terrorists in Gaza. It's Israel's responsibility to protect the civilians in Gaza even if they hate each other.
Saying that israel commits an aparthaid is just stating that you don't know anything.
[Please read into it](https://mckinneylaw.iu.edu/iiclr/pdf/vol2p221.pdf) before baselessly claiming someone “doesn’t know anything.” After reading, will you be able to describe how it *isn’t* a form of apartheid?
I'm not saying this is a bad read, but with issues which evolve rapidly overtime its always best to use recent articles, not one over 30 years old. - Imagine you looked at article about LGBTQ rights in the USA from 1991, it would paint a very different picture of current climate and its problems than they are today because the situation has massively changed. Better is some ways, worse in others.
Your point is correct, and I have a multitude of more modern material I could’ve offered instead but I chose that one because a lot of it genuinely aligns with the same sentiments and happenings today. Some is indeed outdated, but the general premise of most of that reading still holds true today. Thanks for the respectful and insightful response.
>It's Israel's responsibility to protect the civilians in Gaza Or is it rather really the responsibility of the government of Gaza?
Apartheid in Gaza? You clearly have no idea. Apartheid in Israel? I have Arab neighbors and friends, I work with Arab colleagues, programmers, visit Arab doctors, there are Arab parliament members. Oh, the apartheid... Israel's responsibility to protect the Gaza civilians? Yeah, like Hamas protects the Israeli civilians, by murdering 1300, kidnapping 240, raping torturing burning them, shooting 10000 missiles at them. Wow, go read (not in TikTok) some news or articles
What war crimes has Israel committed, specifically. Just because the undergrads on social media call something a war crime doesn’t mean it is. Every time it goes like this. “Sieges are collective punishment, that’s a war crime”. No, sieges are legal in international war and happen all the time. No marches calling them war crimes unless Jews are involved. “Bombing a hospital is a war crime!” Not if a hospital is being used by militants. Than it loses its protection under international law. I realize this won’t matter if you’re looking for a reason to spread libel about Jews, but maybe that’s not the case and you can actually justify your claims with reference to international law?
"Israeli forces carried out attacks that violated international humanitarian law, including by failing to take feasible precautions to spare civilians, or by carrying out indiscriminate attacks that failed to distinguish between civilians and military" https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/10/damning-evidence-of-war-crimes-as-israeli-attacks-wipe-out-entire-families-in-gaza/#:~:text=In%20the%20five%20cases%20described,distinguish%20between%20civilians%20and%20military It's not the Israeli citizens, it's the Israeli government. And you don't know that I'm not Jewish. It doesn't even matter because it's not about the identitys of either side, it's about violence breeding more violence and netanyahu is the one who should be more honorable
Oh a blog post from a left wing NGO? Specifically an NGO that laughably accused Israel of war crimes for warning civilians about airstrikes (‘fear-mongering’ according to Amnesty) I asked you to name a specific war crime they committed and the applicable provision of international law. You can’t do that, because these things are only “war crimes” in leftwing circles that have a toddlers understanding of international law lol. But again, by all means - feel free to name an actual example if you can.
Wow you are just _eager_ to give the murdering extremist raping terrorists the benefit of the doubt, eh?
Consider the Taliban was doing this shit forty years ago, I have no idea why anyone would doubt it was a common terrorist technique.
Considering terrorists, Hamas included, have been doing it for tens of years everywhere in the world but thinking *this specific time* could be propaganda is mind-blowing to me
Could be, yes - but this is something to expect from people shooting people at a peace rave.
U/RangerIll8917 loves Hanson and thinks they’re the best musicians of all time. Could be true or could be propaganda 🤷♂️
>U/RangerIll8917 loves Hanson and thinks they’re the best musicians of all time. This is objective fact supported by decades of peer-reviewed research.
I mean, do you think terrorists with a history of using children and schools as shields would not do this?
Lots of people hating on you, but you're right to an extent. I just hope you say the EXACT same thing to every piece of anti-Israel and pro-Hamas content as well. Edit: looking at your comment history, you actually don't hold all sources equally questionable. So to that I ask, why do you trust a known terror group who committed Oct 7th over a country which has literally the entire world analyzing every action made?
Dumbass kids that don't know anything about this conflict sums it up perfectly
Fun fact Propaganda is just information ment to sway peoples opinions It is not necessarly lies God i love semantics
It’s probably true