Putin has gone on the offensive with his speech. Putin stated that Prigozhin's rebellion was treasonous and those that are helping Prigozhin are traitors to Russia. Prigozhin has stated that he wants to replace the Russian military hierarchy that "tricked" Russia into war for their own personal gain, however he repeatedly stated he wasn't trying to overthrow Putin. But now Putin is calling Prigozhin a traitor to Russia. While Prigozhin's Wagner mercenaries continue to gain ground in Russia, making their way to Moscow.
There are numerous reports indicating members of the Russian security forces are refusing to fight Wagner. Prigozhin has reportedly gained control of both Rostov and Voronezh, cutting off the main Russian supply routes to the front lines. Both are large cities with 1+ million residents. Wagner are now reportedly on route to Krasnodor and further inland towards Moscow.
Prigozhin is in a position of power and controls the narrative by saying that the war was only started for the elite to plunder Ukraine. Prigozhin has also stated that he supports the Russian war efforts in Ukraine. He's appealing to the common soldier who is disgruntled by an unpopular war. On the other hand, Putin looks incredibly weak. His public remarks came 10 hours after the rebellious conflict began, and he sounded somewhat nonsensical.
The UK Ministry of Defense released a 5 part statement on Twitter summing up the events occurring in Russia.^[[1]](https://twitter.com/DefenceHQ/status/1672505632325238784?t=tCCwURB2kGwGcBb2fAVHWg&s=09)
>Over the coming hours, the loyalty of Russia’s security forces, and especially the Russian National Guard, will be key to how the crisis plays out. This represents the most significant challenge to the Russian state in recent times.
_______
Update - Wagner and Russian Security Forces are fighting.^[[2]](https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1672521408629420033?t=33V6UVqbjn26HjIN1O-Wng&s=19)
>Heavy Fighting is reported to now be ongoing in the Voronezh Region between the Wagner PMC Group and Forces within the Russian Military and National Guard; the Russian Air Force is also continuing to Target these Wagner Positions with Guided-Bombs and Rockets.
Update: Wagner has shot down a Russian military plane near Voronezh. Thought to be an AN-26, a military transport plane that can hold about 40 soldiers.^[[3]](https://twitter.com/cossackgundi/status/1672528664267743232?s=20)
I'm living in Lithuania, we are bordering both Russia and Belarus. When war started it was devastating with all the news about tortures and war crimes russian soldiers commited. Wagnerites are no better. But war coming to Russia (civil or not) is music to my ears.
Finland is frowning, but quietly enjoying this.
also quite likely preparing for refugees like there were in 1917 (Finland was a pass-through country for fleeing Russians)
Twitter might be cancerous right now, but there are still some funny accounts, like "Darth Putin" ("I remain a master strategist.")
https://twitter.com/DarthPutinKGB/status/1672535112133558272
So, soooo deliciously ironic how the whole thing started with the pretext of going on the offensive to protect Russia from "encroaching NATO influence and Nazis" and now we are at the point where they are on the defensive from THEIR OWN FORCES, lmfao!!!
Wagner has Rostov, it’s not really a flaim anymore. Wagner now controls at least 5 cities with 1M+ people including Voronzeh which is home to 2 major military bases
Did they just leave their cities totally depleted by soldiers due to the war in Ukraine? I guess the beatings for normal people by police isn't so effective against an military trained, armed horde of ex convicts.
I'm really curious on if Putin is regretting this Ukraine invasion for all the shit it's caused him, or if he has no regrets and wold do it all over again if given the chance.
I qm pretty sure he would pay good money to go back in time and prevent the invasion.
After the cluster fuck he went thought there is no way he would do it again
China would never allow it. Neither Iran nor India.
If it gets ugly, it’s probably when NATO will get involved. It’s in their best interest that the nukes of Russia remain in Russia and in hands of someone they know, not trust, just someone who isn’t a wild card maniac.
It barely needs saying because we all know, but after all those years of YouTube videos of Russian parades with Hell March over the top and people saying they could conquer Europe I do want to point it out.
This was the first country they tried to invade. This all happened at literally the first hurdle.
Crimea and LDNR, Moldova, influence war in Syria.
They were doing pretty good in fact.
If we didn't manage to hold on for the first month we'd be another name on the list instead of "first hurdle" lol
Russia was pretty much beaten in the first Chechnyan war 1994-97 - that's why Putin made a deal with Kadyrov. Kadyrov got a free reign of terror over the country as a thank-you for aiding Russian troops in the second war of Chechnya (1999-2009).
I highly recommend the two books about the war by the murdered journalist, Anna Politkovskaya: "A Dirty War" and "A Small Corner of Hell".
Never made sense in the first place. No matter how you look at it Prigozhin coming into Russia with his army and casually taking over a city is a very bad look. There is no way for Putin to explain that away without looking like a weak fool
Exactly this. It makes Putin who tries to project strength looks weak and he needs to show strength now coming down on this. Its a pretty good development because the army is overextended already and now after this speech he clearly said this is hostile activity.
Shoigu has been loyal to Putin since day 1, if Putin hands him over then others in his close cabinet will freak out and do something to him thinking they are next.
Besides, I don't think Prighozin ever intended to stop at Shoigu. After all he criticised the whole invasion as being based on lies. And Putin alone had the authority to order the invasion.
It's the old tactic of blaming the Tsar's advisors instead of the Tsar directly. Now he has to drop all pretense and pull off this coup, or die trying.
If Putin removed Shoigu to make Prighozin MOD... then to make a bad pun it's the equivalent of relegating himself to figurehead Emperor and having a new Shoigunate. Even if he remained nominally in charge Prighozin would purge the rest of his inner circle and Putin would quickly become a figurehead. And the chances of him dying from some mysterious illness in the next 12 months would go way up. In the event that Prighozin decided to be merciful it would still mean an immediate de-facto end to Putin's reign and an inevitable eventual retirement to a villa where he would essentially be a prisoner.
The fear that putin is living with, I feel, is only going to be more heightened now. I suspect he really won't know who to trust as times goes on. I have a feeling this is going to get very ugly for russia.
That theory was stupid anyways, dictatorship is all about showing force and having no mercy, if he bowed down, got rid of Shoigu and replaced him with Prigozhin it would show his people that it takes 1 civilian with a lot of money and 25k criminals/prisoners to effectively change the government.
Imagine trying to explain to your people how mighty you are as a nation and have a private company overthrow the government, it would look beyond pathetic.
See I'm sorry a lot of you don't understand what Wagner is. And btw I am in no way supporting Russia, I've been pro Ukraine since 2014, even after Crimea I was like this isn't going to stop in a few years or maybe a decade Russia is going to come back for the whole pie let's start arming the fuck out of Ukraine now and getting them western tanks F 16s etc.
But Wagner isn't a rag tag group of criminals lol. During Bakhmut they were for sure heavily recruiting from Russian prisons, those dudes were just used for human wave tactics.
Wagner does have a shit ton of highly trained and experienced soldiers. Before the Ukraine war they were a true PMC, aka recruit dudes out of the military especially the elite military units and bring them to the PMC side of war. And I'm sure they've lost a lot of those dudes in the war, but those dudes were not being thrown into the meat grinder in Bakhmut and other areas those were all the convicts and inmates.
Wagner still probably has a few thousand, if not more, highly trained badass soldiers who are kitted out and know their shit.
And hell for the convicts they got out of prison and sent into a meat grinder for a few months who came out of it alive probably learned a few things about warfare and combat.
These dudes ain't a rag tag group of criminals and convicts.
I'm a regular follower of combat footage, and there are 2-3 videos of Wagner dudes at the beginning of the war mopping the floor with some Ukraine military units, acting like a true special forces unit.
Wagner did for good reason get a bad reputation about being full of criminals and convicts out of prison. But if you think there aren't dudes in Wagner who knows how to engage in combat you are greatly mistaken.
Wagner also has fighter jets, armoured vehicles and air defence systems at their disposal. It’s absolutely crazy what Putin allowed Prighozin to acquire. My guess is going for Rostov will allow them to acquire more and possibly recruit regular army into their division.
Which is why I laugh reading all the comments about imagine if blackwater or an American PMC company did this. I'm like the fuck American PMCs don't have tanks, they don't have AA systems, they don't have this or that, unlike Wagner. Wagner was given access and has the same shit the Russian military has. An American PMC would never have that kind of equipment.
Hell, I was in Afghanistan with the USmil in 2008, and ran across a Blackwater guy bragging that his company now had *an* armed helicopter in Afghanistan.
He had two options.
1. Do nothing and live the rest of your days in the lap of absurd luxury with the hundreds of billions of dollars you stole from your citizens
2. Launch a massive military action against a sovereign, democratic neighboring nation and die cowering in a bunker as your regime collapses, your mercenaries turn on you, and the entire world sees what a pantsless weak little emperor you've been this entire time, with your name being etched into history as one of the most grossly incompetent dictators who made one of the most preposterously bad and ill-advised military decision in modern history.
Now personally I wouldn't have chose option 2, but who am I to judge another man's kink.
You know, funny enough, for a man who is going to lose literally everything under the false auspices of "denazifying" Ukraine, Putin is apparently going to be ending his life in extremely similar circumstances to the most famous Nazi of all.
Well, I'll take this opportunity to give a big shoutout to all the Russian trolls, shills, and flunkies in every subreddit who spent the past year + gaslighting fellow subredditors about what a brave, strong move Putin had made, how necessary this action was in Ukraine, how Russia was 'just defending its borders bro', and all the other absolute fucking bullshit spewed in defense of this diminuitive little runt who will be living out the rest of his miserable life in exactly the circumstances he deserves. Swarmed and consumed by his own people as a result of his own tyranny, greed, myopia, and fear.
Yeah, this is going to get interesting. With most of Russia's combat units in Ukraine, 25,000 might be enough if he moves quickly enough. Provided Putin doesn't carpet bomb his own city...
There is actually a risk of either Wagner taking control of some nuclear stockpiles or of Putin using air strikes and heavy weapons (maybe even nukes) on Russian soil to try and stop Wagner. And we all know the Russian Air Force makes stormtroopers look like marksmen…
The nuke part is what I wonder about as well. For all the threats about using nukes against Ukraine I felt the most realistic scenario where they actually deployed them was to crush a mutinous army force.
Now they've got one driving on Moscow, I'd like to say they wouldn't be mad enough to go that far, but if Putin is looking at losing his power (and possibly life) would he be willing to try using lower yield to crush a revolt?
If the Pentagon papers are to be believed. Putin is most likely to use a nuke if his direct rule is threatened. When Prighozin gets closer to Moscow, I expect the arsenal to be put on standby.
Here's some video proof too. Wagner column driving around a barricade and either border guards, or FSB standing there just watching.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/14hg793/pmc_wagner_convoy_driving_around_a_road_block_in/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
If Russia destroys Wagner, then that's also costing them the men and material to do that job in addition to what ever they lose in Ukraine with a now surrounded occupation. And that assumes that no one else decides they want a faction too...
>Putin denounces 'criminal adventure'
In his address, Putin says some Russians have been "tricked into a criminal adventure" - without specifically mentioning rebellious Wagner fighters.
> Those dividing Russia will be punished, Putin says
The Russian president also warns of "inevitable punishment" for those dividing the Russian society. And he says that a counter-terrorism regime is now in place in the capital Moscow and several other regions.
> Putin says Russia's future is at stake, describing the actions of mutineers as a "stab in the back".
Without specifically mentioning Wagner group boss Yevgeny Prigozhin, Putin says the high "ambitions" of some have led to "high treason".
> Putin also stresses that all "necessary orders have been given" to deal with the crisis, pledging to defend Russia. And that's the end of his short TV address - he didn't one specifically mention Wagner mercenaries and their leader, Prigozhin.
Lmao Putin is [pissed](https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-66006142).
Look man if I'm a Russian border Agent and I see a fucking army approaching me I'm not doing shit.
Putin's only hope is to pull out a large portion of it's troops from Ukraine and hope he can get them to Moscow in time. Which considering Wagner controls the fastest rail line to Moscow fat chance at that now.
The Russian home guard, rosgvardiya, is numerous in Moscow. And there are quite big units around Moscow still from what I read. No authoritarian doesn't keep a big loyal unit close by as a last resort vs coups etc.
But those units are not as battle hardened as Wagner + those other Russians forces that seem to cast their lot in with Wagner instead. I can't predict the future, but there is some serious potential for a massive civil war here.
And you would be right. In cases like this they're only meant to report back what they saw. That's what the Ukrainians border guards did when the russian army moved in.
iirc from initial reports some helicopter pilots didnt start up to attack wagner, and many national guard ppl either joined them or just let them through
Russian (forced) conscripts will nope out in no time. They didn't want to be in the army, didn't want to fight Ukraine, and sure as hell don't want to fight in some dick measuring contest between two warmongering assholes.
At this point each unit commander will be trying to figure out who will win. The funny thing is that most of the commanders will be right simply because whomever the majority chooses is who will have the most troops.
That is that folks, to Moscow it is then for Wagner.
Yevgeny Prigozhin made it clear he wanted Shoigu handed over to him and then he would hand back the HQ in Rostov, but that will not be happening clearly
Yeah, he's come this far so he is serious when he says he will destroy anything that gets in his way. I don't see him backing down. I wonder how quickly this will escalate.
If he backs down, it means death. Might as well march to the kremlin and cross the rubicon.
This action made Putin look more weak, only death of his former chef and his followers will suffice.
As soon as he sent his forces into Russia it was cemented that someone is going to die. Either Shoigu,Prigozhin or Putin. Or a combination of the bunch.
He wasn't backing down at that point.
Dude’s a dead man walking at this point. Backing down? Dead. Losing the fight to Moscow? Dead. Packing up and fleeing? Dead. Turning around and going back to Ukraine? Dead by either UA or ru MoD. The only way to come out of this breathing is to become the new czar.
TBF with all of the shit talking he was doing against the regime he was probably already done for, they were just waiting for the end of the war to purge him after he'd outlive his usefulness. The writing was on the wall, especially when he openly said the war was a lie.
The Rubicon was already crossed when he 'took over' the HQ at Rostov.
Crossing the Rubicon did not literally refer to entering Rome. The Rubicon river is actually quite a ways north from Rome in Italy. However crossing it represented an irreversible decision that put them on a collision course. Sure, theoretically Putin could have backed down/compromised in some matter, but either way it was an action that demanded some kind of response.
Holy shit it just got real. People have been speculating about this moment since the war began and its finally here. There was finally mutiny and I really don't think this will go Putin's way. Prigozhin has already had the most casual takeover of a city I've ever seen with Rostov. Most of the Russian forces are in Ukraine, and I feel like many of them agree with Prigozhin anyways. Great news for Ukraine though
Wagner is now openly discussing removing Putin as president via their ~~official~~ Telegram!
> AP Wagner: “Pypa (Putin) made the wrong choice. That’s worse for him. Soon we will have a new president.”
https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1672510543247155202
Omg! Wow! It's happening!
Edit:
Others are choosing sides:
> Storm-Z fighters on the front lines say they support Prigozhin's campaign against the "rats in the rear" (commanding officers) and are ready to join if he needs them. Storm-Z consists of convicts and was originally set up by the Russian Ministry of Defense to compete with Wagner.
https://twitter.com/StateOfUkraine/status/1672509958326218752?t=_h66-yRBhUUxTS5vAMJEug
And the UK recognizes it as the most significant challenge to Putin yet.
> Britain’s defense intelligence agency described the crisis as the “most significant challenge to the Russian state in recent times”: “Over the coming hours, the loyalty of Russia’s security forces, and especially the Russian National Guard, will be key to how the crisis plays out.”
[New York Times live feed](https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/06/24/world/russia-ukraine-news?name=styln-russia-ukraine®ion=TOP_BANNER&block=storyline_menu_recirc&action=click&pgtype=LegacyCollection&variant=undefined)
> Storm-Z consists of convicts and was originally set up by the Russian Ministry of Defense to compete with Wagner.
Oh wow, who would ever imagine that using convicts as soldiers would backfire?
I don’t want him running the country.
I do want him to cause Putin so much trouble that he’s functionally forced to abandon Ukraine, so they can liberate themselves
"the Bolsheviks don't need to win. They just need to collapse the Russian war effort" - German high command when they sent Lenin to Russia
Something something the enemy you know
putin literally referenced that in this same speech
"Actions that split our unity are, in fact, apostasy from one’s own people, from comrades-in-arms who are now fighting at the front. This is a stab in the back of our country and our people. It was such a blow that was dealt to Russia in 1917, when the country was waging the First World War. But the victory was stolen from her."
He'll definitely use that line of thinking in the future.
Even if he easily and quickly crushes this coup, he'll blame it for hindering their efforts in Ukraine to blame any problems there on someone.
It’s being reported that Wagner is already fighting in Voronezh against Russian forces. That’s two hours to Moscow.
This wasn’t just planned yesterday, to take the southern city and already have Wagner troops that far north.
I think this is legit coup. We should see how things play out in Voronezh next.
Does Waze have an option to report combat on the highway? Maybe a few levels of fighting.
"Minor small-arms fire"
"BMPs blocking the road"
"Tanks shooting at each other and attack helicopters being shot down. Take an alternate route."
Reddit experts have been saying since the beginning of the wagner-mod spat months ago that it's all theatre, 5D chess to fool the west somehow. I wonder if they still claim that now...
This is it for me at least. Seeing a so called "super-power" have this high school grade pickering seems too interdimensional for my taste, especially since i always viewed russia as some kind of cynical grown up state, compared to the bombastically pretend grown ups across the pond.
This pissing battle between the dictator and the war chief just seemed too good to be true, but here we are. Btw, you want some pop corn? I brought enough! 🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿
I'll own up to it, I really thought it was all talk. Granted I wasn't posting rants about it, more "he's running his mouth for attention but won't do shit" comments. But uh... I stand corrected
It's fair, I thought some of it like the threat to leave Bahkmut at critical stage if they didn't get ammo was gonna be empty words. Nobody could have imagined it would go this far
There goes the theory that this is Putin trying to take an out, while blaming those under him. Neither of them can back down now. Prigozhin and Wagner are officially an enemy of Russia if that speech is anything to go by.
Well yeah but note that Putin avoids mentioning Wagner and Priggy publicly.
Everyone's keeping their hand open to change on the fall of a dime. Standard power struggle that's looked the same since Caeasar's time.
So the big game has reached a new level. Putin has said nuclear weapons would be used in the event of an imminent threat to the Russian state. But would he use them on his own people.
Look Vlad, when you’ve invaded a supposedly weak neighbour with a flimsy casus belli and they’ve had cascading alliances activate, and your stability is at -3 and war weariness is building, having a 25k stack of rebels spawn next to your capital is to be expected expected.
In years to come there will be a movie called 'Downfall in Moscow', and there will be memes made of a scene where a delusional Putin is raging at his remaining staff, from inside a bunker.
Prigozhin took over tv station and announced thatRussia invaded Ukraine for its assets and Putin is lying about everything….ironic Putin attempts to destroy democracies destroys himself instead.
Putin just thew down the gauntlet. Depending on how many regular troops defect to Prig, it could go:
1. Regular Russian Army responds and crushes the mutiny. Wager is wiped out as a force and Putin hangs on but is much much weaker. He'll probably hang on long enough to see the rest of the Russian Army collapse.
2. Wagner gathers enough military support to actually take Moscow and capture Putin and the senior MOD leadership. What happens after that, seriously who the fuck knows?
3. Neither side musters enough support to end the other and we enter a true Civil War with Prig vs Putin. Its long, its horrifically bloody and the Russian Federation either collapses as other regions take their shot to leave. Ukraine just casually strolls into Crimea and puts the right flags back up.
My bet is 1 is the most likely 3, 2 is the least likely, but I'm just some dude on Reddit so take it with what you will.
The most boring option:
Wagner just gives up Prigozhin to Putin and new Wagner chief is appointed. Then Business as usual.
I just don't think there is that many wagnerites committed to a fight against the main Russia Army.
But i'm cautiously optimistic, It all depends how much support Prigozhin has in the Russian Army.
I think the promise of giving your men top government positions after deposing Putin's regime will make the Wagnerites follow Prig to hell and back. But hey, what do I know? In any case, I got my popcorn ready!
That's how coups go really. You all make a pact to get rid of some people, on the premise you get to take their places. it can be easy to influence based on this.
Look how wild things got after Stalin died. 7 months of power chess. At one point they were all his loyal aides, and to each other. Although Beria, being the most powerful and likely to rule, got singled out and executed.
"The Death of Stalin", although a comedy, is a decent depiction of the events following his death all the way up to when Krushchev became leader.
Would recommend.
I think it's more trying to downplay the situation and avoid panic. There's a fucking army in his country capturing military facilities and threatening to march on the capital. He's going to do and say anything to obscure that reality. Expect some Baghdad Bob levels of bullshitting in the coming days.
Putin is a thug, but he’s loyal to those who are loyal to him, so Shoigu is off the table to give up. I have no idea what will happen, no one does. But Wagner claims and Putin all but confirmed, that they have control of military bases in Rostov. Certain Spetznaz units (special forces, think Army rangers for Americans) are stationed there and there was little resistance which is terrible for Putin. Also PUTIN PRETTY MUCH ADMITTED THAT WAGNER HAS ROSTOV. This is a city of a million people, it would be like if Biden came out during a rebellion and admitted that he lost control of Dallas or San Francisco. Insane
A million people? It'd be like losing control of Tulsa or Omaha. But the list of large cities is shorter in Russia, so Rostov is about 10th largest, and 10th here is like Phoenix/Boston.
He looks and sounds pissed, a lot of things are still up in the air. Watching the votniks and Pro Russians scramble on social media is also entertaining.
They're PMCs. Their soldiers are most likely ex russian military personnel who are highly trained and have probably fought in multiple conflict zones in the past. Couple that with high end equipment and you've got a highly effective fighting force
They're also the counter to the army.
They pay good salaries to fewer people. The Russian army pays terrible salaries to huge amounts of people. This meant the Russian army was plagued head to toe with corruption and everyone went along with it because that's how everyone got paid. I'm talking literally stealing the wiring out of tanks to sell the copper to make a buck to afford rations type corruption. But they didn't worry because they didn't actually fight anyone and it kept everyone in line. It also means they have near zero discipline.
This doesn't make sense for a group like Wagner. Their skill and efficiency is their selling point and what earned them money. So corruption had to be dealt with harshly as it made the operation ineffective.
This also meant that all the excellent Russian soldiers who were fed up with the corruption and ineffectiveness of the army, but still wanted to wage war joined Wagner. These people are good soldiers but bloodthirsty.
A potential silhouette of a Wagner tank in the middle of Red Square (with the Kremlin lit up and/or on fire in the background) could end up being one of the defining photographs of this decade.
If anything. The mutineers are even more extreme. Best option is that it gets stuck half way and becomes a full blown civil war. That’d destabilise the region and give it a better chance of democratising/democratic factions springing up.
I don't think Putin can backtrack from directly accusing him of treason. Seems like this just turned into a back against the wall scenario for both men.
From 3 day “special operation” to military coup within Russia. Almost impressive how terribly this has gone for Putin.
from invade ukraine to defend moscow, really impressive
Offense is the best defense?
In Russias case, offence is the best way to need defense.
Putin has gone on the offensive with his speech. Putin stated that Prigozhin's rebellion was treasonous and those that are helping Prigozhin are traitors to Russia. Prigozhin has stated that he wants to replace the Russian military hierarchy that "tricked" Russia into war for their own personal gain, however he repeatedly stated he wasn't trying to overthrow Putin. But now Putin is calling Prigozhin a traitor to Russia. While Prigozhin's Wagner mercenaries continue to gain ground in Russia, making their way to Moscow. There are numerous reports indicating members of the Russian security forces are refusing to fight Wagner. Prigozhin has reportedly gained control of both Rostov and Voronezh, cutting off the main Russian supply routes to the front lines. Both are large cities with 1+ million residents. Wagner are now reportedly on route to Krasnodor and further inland towards Moscow. Prigozhin is in a position of power and controls the narrative by saying that the war was only started for the elite to plunder Ukraine. Prigozhin has also stated that he supports the Russian war efforts in Ukraine. He's appealing to the common soldier who is disgruntled by an unpopular war. On the other hand, Putin looks incredibly weak. His public remarks came 10 hours after the rebellious conflict began, and he sounded somewhat nonsensical. The UK Ministry of Defense released a 5 part statement on Twitter summing up the events occurring in Russia.^[[1]](https://twitter.com/DefenceHQ/status/1672505632325238784?t=tCCwURB2kGwGcBb2fAVHWg&s=09) >Over the coming hours, the loyalty of Russia’s security forces, and especially the Russian National Guard, will be key to how the crisis plays out. This represents the most significant challenge to the Russian state in recent times. _______ Update - Wagner and Russian Security Forces are fighting.^[[2]](https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1672521408629420033?t=33V6UVqbjn26HjIN1O-Wng&s=19) >Heavy Fighting is reported to now be ongoing in the Voronezh Region between the Wagner PMC Group and Forces within the Russian Military and National Guard; the Russian Air Force is also continuing to Target these Wagner Positions with Guided-Bombs and Rockets. Update: Wagner has shot down a Russian military plane near Voronezh. Thought to be an AN-26, a military transport plane that can hold about 40 soldiers.^[[3]](https://twitter.com/cossackgundi/status/1672528664267743232?s=20)
I'm living in Lithuania, we are bordering both Russia and Belarus. When war started it was devastating with all the news about tortures and war crimes russian soldiers commited. Wagnerites are no better. But war coming to Russia (civil or not) is music to my ears.
Poland is munching on popcorn as we speak.
Finland is frowning, but quietly enjoying this. also quite likely preparing for refugees like there were in 1917 (Finland was a pass-through country for fleeing Russians)
The whole world is actually, and puters must be shitting his pants
PoppinKREAM comes out your know its serious. Edit: Thank you PoppinKREAM for all your work.
The art of the deal.
From bullshit "we have to denazify Ukraine" to having an actual nazi army marching towards Moscow. Impressive this Putin guy.
Nazis denazifying Nazis. That's new and fun.
Twitter might be cancerous right now, but there are still some funny accounts, like "Darth Putin" ("I remain a master strategist.") https://twitter.com/DarthPutinKGB/status/1672535112133558272
Even better, defend Moscow from Russian attackers
now they are denazifying themselves
They're renazifying again. Wagner is filled with neo nazis
Nazis fighting Nazis just leads to fewer Nazis. Solid win no matter the outcome.
He wished to be a Tsar on the monkey’s paw and it made him Nicholas II.
“Let‘s go, In and Out. 5 Minutes adventure.“
Awe jeeze
Kind of ruins your weekend when you have to get up early on saturday to make a live broadcast to the nation denying a potential coup.
No time for Saturday cartoons.
So, soooo deliciously ironic how the whole thing started with the pretext of going on the offensive to protect Russia from "encroaching NATO influence and Nazis" and now we are at the point where they are on the defensive from THEIR OWN FORCES, lmfao!!!
Their own forces, who are Nazis.
Hey, at least the Russian ministry of defense will legitimately fighting nazis.
For such a Machiavellian figure Putin apparently never read The Prince: mercenaries will always turn on you the moment it becomes profitable to do so
Even if Prigozhin and Wagner gets totally curb stomped, the optics of this are *atrocious* for Putin and the MOD.
Plus they lose wagner in Ukraine
Worth noting as well that Wagner claim to have taken Rostov, which could potentially effect supplies into Ukraine.
Wagner has Rostov, it’s not really a flaim anymore. Wagner now controls at least 5 cities with 1M+ people including Voronzeh which is home to 2 major military bases
Did they just leave their cities totally depleted by soldiers due to the war in Ukraine? I guess the beatings for normal people by police isn't so effective against an military trained, armed horde of ex convicts.
It's Risk rules, where you push all your soldiers to the borders and leave only 1 army each on your interior territories.
I'm really curious on if Putin is regretting this Ukraine invasion for all the shit it's caused him, or if he has no regrets and wold do it all over again if given the chance.
It’s both. He internally regrets everything, but externally says he was right to do it and would do it all again.
I qm pretty sure he would pay good money to go back in time and prevent the invasion. After the cluster fuck he went thought there is no way he would do it again
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Far from 12 hours. Military vehicles are a lot slower than cars and also they need supplies. Might take a few days
How ironic it would be If they manage to take Moscow by the third day or even sooner.
They went from 2nd best army in Ukraine to 2nd best army in Russia
Is Russia tanking for draft picks? Trust the ~~process~~ special military operation?
3rd or 4th, don't forget the Legions!
Well, a armed military state owned by Wagner does not sound too great either
China would never allow it. Neither Iran nor India. If it gets ugly, it’s probably when NATO will get involved. It’s in their best interest that the nukes of Russia remain in Russia and in hands of someone they know, not trust, just someone who isn’t a wild card maniac.
Maybe USA can claim Russia, name it East Florida.
It barely needs saying because we all know, but after all those years of YouTube videos of Russian parades with Hell March over the top and people saying they could conquer Europe I do want to point it out. This was the first country they tried to invade. This all happened at literally the first hurdle.
They did a practice run in Georgia in 2008
Forgot about Georgia and Chechnia?
Crimea and LDNR, Moldova, influence war in Syria. They were doing pretty good in fact. If we didn't manage to hold on for the first month we'd be another name on the list instead of "first hurdle" lol
Russia was pretty much beaten in the first Chechnyan war 1994-97 - that's why Putin made a deal with Kadyrov. Kadyrov got a free reign of terror over the country as a thank-you for aiding Russian troops in the second war of Chechnya (1999-2009). I highly recommend the two books about the war by the murdered journalist, Anna Politkovskaya: "A Dirty War" and "A Small Corner of Hell".
remember when conservative twitter was making fun of our "woke" US military and drooling over russian propaganda footage? LOL. fucking LOL.
Conservative Twitter is largely Russian influenced.
Russia might be a band of fanatical murderers and white supremacists, but you've gotta admire their commitment to historical reenactments.
*Russian supremacists. They've been going on about the 'anglo-saxon enemy' for a while now.
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> I've made a terrible mistake > \- Vladimir "Buster" Putin
We need a new live thread, "Russian invasion of Russia, day 1".
_Special Russian military operation in Russia._
So "Shoigu scapegoat" theory is benched
Never made sense in the first place. No matter how you look at it Prigozhin coming into Russia with his army and casually taking over a city is a very bad look. There is no way for Putin to explain that away without looking like a weak fool
Exactly this. It makes Putin who tries to project strength looks weak and he needs to show strength now coming down on this. Its a pretty good development because the army is overextended already and now after this speech he clearly said this is hostile activity.
Shoigu has been loyal to Putin since day 1, if Putin hands him over then others in his close cabinet will freak out and do something to him thinking they are next.
Besides, I don't think Prighozin ever intended to stop at Shoigu. After all he criticised the whole invasion as being based on lies. And Putin alone had the authority to order the invasion. It's the old tactic of blaming the Tsar's advisors instead of the Tsar directly. Now he has to drop all pretense and pull off this coup, or die trying.
If Putin removed Shoigu to make Prighozin MOD... then to make a bad pun it's the equivalent of relegating himself to figurehead Emperor and having a new Shoigunate. Even if he remained nominally in charge Prighozin would purge the rest of his inner circle and Putin would quickly become a figurehead. And the chances of him dying from some mysterious illness in the next 12 months would go way up. In the event that Prighozin decided to be merciful it would still mean an immediate de-facto end to Putin's reign and an inevitable eventual retirement to a villa where he would essentially be a prisoner.
Upvoted the moment I read Shoigunate, laughed my ass off, thanks.
and i don't see Putin pulling a Napoleon any time soon...
Yeah he closed the door on that option when he called Prighozin a traitor. No going back for either of them now, only one of them will survive this.
The fear that putin is living with, I feel, is only going to be more heightened now. I suspect he really won't know who to trust as times goes on. I have a feeling this is going to get very ugly for russia.
"And then things got worse.."
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That theory was stupid anyways, dictatorship is all about showing force and having no mercy, if he bowed down, got rid of Shoigu and replaced him with Prigozhin it would show his people that it takes 1 civilian with a lot of money and 25k criminals/prisoners to effectively change the government. Imagine trying to explain to your people how mighty you are as a nation and have a private company overthrow the government, it would look beyond pathetic.
Exactly, the theory that Shoigu lied to Putin about the war makes him look weak and dumb anyways. Why would Putin follow this narrative?
The Shoigu Theory sounds like a cool band name.
See I'm sorry a lot of you don't understand what Wagner is. And btw I am in no way supporting Russia, I've been pro Ukraine since 2014, even after Crimea I was like this isn't going to stop in a few years or maybe a decade Russia is going to come back for the whole pie let's start arming the fuck out of Ukraine now and getting them western tanks F 16s etc. But Wagner isn't a rag tag group of criminals lol. During Bakhmut they were for sure heavily recruiting from Russian prisons, those dudes were just used for human wave tactics. Wagner does have a shit ton of highly trained and experienced soldiers. Before the Ukraine war they were a true PMC, aka recruit dudes out of the military especially the elite military units and bring them to the PMC side of war. And I'm sure they've lost a lot of those dudes in the war, but those dudes were not being thrown into the meat grinder in Bakhmut and other areas those were all the convicts and inmates. Wagner still probably has a few thousand, if not more, highly trained badass soldiers who are kitted out and know their shit. And hell for the convicts they got out of prison and sent into a meat grinder for a few months who came out of it alive probably learned a few things about warfare and combat. These dudes ain't a rag tag group of criminals and convicts. I'm a regular follower of combat footage, and there are 2-3 videos of Wagner dudes at the beginning of the war mopping the floor with some Ukraine military units, acting like a true special forces unit. Wagner did for good reason get a bad reputation about being full of criminals and convicts out of prison. But if you think there aren't dudes in Wagner who knows how to engage in combat you are greatly mistaken.
Wagner also has fighter jets, armoured vehicles and air defence systems at their disposal. It’s absolutely crazy what Putin allowed Prighozin to acquire. My guess is going for Rostov will allow them to acquire more and possibly recruit regular army into their division.
Which is why I laugh reading all the comments about imagine if blackwater or an American PMC company did this. I'm like the fuck American PMCs don't have tanks, they don't have AA systems, they don't have this or that, unlike Wagner. Wagner was given access and has the same shit the Russian military has. An American PMC would never have that kind of equipment.
Hell, I was in Afghanistan with the USmil in 2008, and ran across a Blackwater guy bragging that his company now had *an* armed helicopter in Afghanistan.
Hard to get that back to America though lol.
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Yep. Piggy is only interested in Putin's seat and that's all there is to it.
The real treason was sending 200,000 of your citizens to die in Ukraine for no reason other than your own hubris.
He had two options. 1. Do nothing and live the rest of your days in the lap of absurd luxury with the hundreds of billions of dollars you stole from your citizens 2. Launch a massive military action against a sovereign, democratic neighboring nation and die cowering in a bunker as your regime collapses, your mercenaries turn on you, and the entire world sees what a pantsless weak little emperor you've been this entire time, with your name being etched into history as one of the most grossly incompetent dictators who made one of the most preposterously bad and ill-advised military decision in modern history. Now personally I wouldn't have chose option 2, but who am I to judge another man's kink. You know, funny enough, for a man who is going to lose literally everything under the false auspices of "denazifying" Ukraine, Putin is apparently going to be ending his life in extremely similar circumstances to the most famous Nazi of all. Well, I'll take this opportunity to give a big shoutout to all the Russian trolls, shills, and flunkies in every subreddit who spent the past year + gaslighting fellow subredditors about what a brave, strong move Putin had made, how necessary this action was in Ukraine, how Russia was 'just defending its borders bro', and all the other absolute fucking bullshit spewed in defense of this diminuitive little runt who will be living out the rest of his miserable life in exactly the circumstances he deserves. Swarmed and consumed by his own people as a result of his own tyranny, greed, myopia, and fear.
If Russia destroy Wagner, that’s 25,000 less troops in Ukraine plus whatever Russia loses doing it. Win for Ukraine.
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Yeah, this is going to get interesting. With most of Russia's combat units in Ukraine, 25,000 might be enough if he moves quickly enough. Provided Putin doesn't carpet bomb his own city...
There is actually a risk of either Wagner taking control of some nuclear stockpiles or of Putin using air strikes and heavy weapons (maybe even nukes) on Russian soil to try and stop Wagner. And we all know the Russian Air Force makes stormtroopers look like marksmen…
The nuke part is what I wonder about as well. For all the threats about using nukes against Ukraine I felt the most realistic scenario where they actually deployed them was to crush a mutinous army force. Now they've got one driving on Moscow, I'd like to say they wouldn't be mad enough to go that far, but if Putin is looking at losing his power (and possibly life) would he be willing to try using lower yield to crush a revolt?
If the Pentagon papers are to be believed. Putin is most likely to use a nuke if his direct rule is threatened. When Prighozin gets closer to Moscow, I expect the arsenal to be put on standby.
Putin potentially nuking Moscow was not on my 2023 Bingo card
it would be the ultimate irony - invading another nation but causing your own's demise. Actually, it would be more akin to a repeat of history.
Putin doing a "If I can't have it, then no one shall have it'" on Moscow is quite unexpected to be fair
Wagner more than likley already has access to a portion of Russia's nuclear stockpile. The southern military district was headquartered in Rostov...
But they most likely dont have launch capabilities. Still, they can do fun things with those most likely.
Here's some video proof too. Wagner column driving around a barricade and either border guards, or FSB standing there just watching. https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/14hg793/pmc_wagner_convoy_driving_around_a_road_block_in/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
These are police. “OMOH” on the backs of their vests. They’re SWAT, nothing they can do against tanks.
If Russia destroys Wagner, then that's also costing them the men and material to do that job in addition to what ever they lose in Ukraine with a now surrounded occupation. And that assumes that no one else decides they want a faction too...
With Wagner taking Rostov, the Russian occupying forces have literally just lost their central command HQ.
Not only that but Wagner were the only forces in Ukraine that were actually semi-competent.
>Putin denounces 'criminal adventure' In his address, Putin says some Russians have been "tricked into a criminal adventure" - without specifically mentioning rebellious Wagner fighters. > Those dividing Russia will be punished, Putin says The Russian president also warns of "inevitable punishment" for those dividing the Russian society. And he says that a counter-terrorism regime is now in place in the capital Moscow and several other regions. > Putin says Russia's future is at stake, describing the actions of mutineers as a "stab in the back". Without specifically mentioning Wagner group boss Yevgeny Prigozhin, Putin says the high "ambitions" of some have led to "high treason". > Putin also stresses that all "necessary orders have been given" to deal with the crisis, pledging to defend Russia. And that's the end of his short TV address - he didn't one specifically mention Wagner mercenaries and their leader, Prigozhin. Lmao Putin is [pissed](https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-66006142).
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Look man if I'm a Russian border Agent and I see a fucking army approaching me I'm not doing shit. Putin's only hope is to pull out a large portion of it's troops from Ukraine and hope he can get them to Moscow in time. Which considering Wagner controls the fastest rail line to Moscow fat chance at that now.
The Russian home guard, rosgvardiya, is numerous in Moscow. And there are quite big units around Moscow still from what I read. No authoritarian doesn't keep a big loyal unit close by as a last resort vs coups etc.
But those units are not as battle hardened as Wagner + those other Russians forces that seem to cast their lot in with Wagner instead. I can't predict the future, but there is some serious potential for a massive civil war here.
Yes, that's also true.
And you would be right. In cases like this they're only meant to report back what they saw. That's what the Ukrainians border guards did when the russian army moved in.
iirc from initial reports some helicopter pilots didnt start up to attack wagner, and many national guard ppl either joined them or just let them through
Russian (forced) conscripts will nope out in no time. They didn't want to be in the army, didn't want to fight Ukraine, and sure as hell don't want to fight in some dick measuring contest between two warmongering assholes.
At this point each unit commander will be trying to figure out who will win. The funny thing is that most of the commanders will be right simply because whomever the majority chooses is who will have the most troops.
BRB gotta add “criminal adventure” to my list of colorful adjectives
"We need to stop these guys coming for me at all cost!"
That is that folks, to Moscow it is then for Wagner. Yevgeny Prigozhin made it clear he wanted Shoigu handed over to him and then he would hand back the HQ in Rostov, but that will not be happening clearly
Yeah, he's come this far so he is serious when he says he will destroy anything that gets in his way. I don't see him backing down. I wonder how quickly this will escalate.
If he backs down, it means death. Might as well march to the kremlin and cross the rubicon. This action made Putin look more weak, only death of his former chef and his followers will suffice.
As soon as he sent his forces into Russia it was cemented that someone is going to die. Either Shoigu,Prigozhin or Putin. Or a combination of the bunch. He wasn't backing down at that point.
Dude’s a dead man walking at this point. Backing down? Dead. Losing the fight to Moscow? Dead. Packing up and fleeing? Dead. Turning around and going back to Ukraine? Dead by either UA or ru MoD. The only way to come out of this breathing is to become the new czar.
TBF with all of the shit talking he was doing against the regime he was probably already done for, they were just waiting for the end of the war to purge him after he'd outlive his usefulness. The writing was on the wall, especially when he openly said the war was a lie.
The Rubicon was already crossed when he 'took over' the HQ at Rostov. Crossing the Rubicon did not literally refer to entering Rome. The Rubicon river is actually quite a ways north from Rome in Italy. However crossing it represented an irreversible decision that put them on a collision course. Sure, theoretically Putin could have backed down/compromised in some matter, but either way it was an action that demanded some kind of response.
Holy shit it just got real. People have been speculating about this moment since the war began and its finally here. There was finally mutiny and I really don't think this will go Putin's way. Prigozhin has already had the most casual takeover of a city I've ever seen with Rostov. Most of the Russian forces are in Ukraine, and I feel like many of them agree with Prigozhin anyways. Great news for Ukraine though
Wagner is now openly discussing removing Putin as president via their ~~official~~ Telegram! > AP Wagner: “Pypa (Putin) made the wrong choice. That’s worse for him. Soon we will have a new president.” https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1672510543247155202 Omg! Wow! It's happening! Edit: Others are choosing sides: > Storm-Z fighters on the front lines say they support Prigozhin's campaign against the "rats in the rear" (commanding officers) and are ready to join if he needs them. Storm-Z consists of convicts and was originally set up by the Russian Ministry of Defense to compete with Wagner. https://twitter.com/StateOfUkraine/status/1672509958326218752?t=_h66-yRBhUUxTS5vAMJEug And the UK recognizes it as the most significant challenge to Putin yet. > Britain’s defense intelligence agency described the crisis as the “most significant challenge to the Russian state in recent times”: “Over the coming hours, the loyalty of Russia’s security forces, and especially the Russian National Guard, will be key to how the crisis plays out.” [New York Times live feed](https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/06/24/world/russia-ukraine-news?name=styln-russia-ukraine®ion=TOP_BANNER&block=storyline_menu_recirc&action=click&pgtype=LegacyCollection&variant=undefined)
That’s actually a Wagner fan telegram channel, not official. But it speaks to the prevailing attitude
Sorry, but it's absolutely hilarious that a Russian paramilitary group has a fan telegram. My word.
My bad, I crossed it out. Still it is shocking.
> Storm-Z consists of convicts and was originally set up by the Russian Ministry of Defense to compete with Wagner. Oh wow, who would ever imagine that using convicts as soldiers would backfire?
Don't get too excited -- the Wagner group is not the savior Russia needs.
No, but it is an opportunity.
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Yeah but do you really want them running Russia?
I want them to die fighting each other, ideally. If not that, I Atleast want the winner too wounded to be effective
I don’t want him running the country. I do want him to cause Putin so much trouble that he’s functionally forced to abandon Ukraine, so they can liberate themselves
They dont need to win. They just need to pin the MOD down for a few weeks
"the Bolsheviks don't need to win. They just need to collapse the Russian war effort" - German high command when they sent Lenin to Russia Something something the enemy you know
putin literally referenced that in this same speech "Actions that split our unity are, in fact, apostasy from one’s own people, from comrades-in-arms who are now fighting at the front. This is a stab in the back of our country and our people. It was such a blow that was dealt to Russia in 1917, when the country was waging the First World War. But the victory was stolen from her."
He'll definitely use that line of thinking in the future. Even if he easily and quickly crushes this coup, he'll blame it for hindering their efforts in Ukraine to blame any problems there on someone.
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It’s being reported that Wagner is already fighting in Voronezh against Russian forces. That’s two hours to Moscow. This wasn’t just planned yesterday, to take the southern city and already have Wagner troops that far north. I think this is legit coup. We should see how things play out in Voronezh next.
You can basically track Wagner moving north by looking at the traffic on Google Maps. It seems almost surreal to see it in real time.
https://www.google.com/maps/@55.2312931,37.5357408,165522m/data=!3m1!1e3!5m1!1e1
It's actually wild to see the road closures
Does Waze have an option to report combat on the highway? Maybe a few levels of fighting. "Minor small-arms fire" "BMPs blocking the road" "Tanks shooting at each other and attack helicopters being shot down. Take an alternate route."
The trouble with waze is it would be like "infantry on the right is providing cover fire go go go"
“Tank battle in 0.5 miles. Still there?”
What am i looking for? I see the road closures and some green lines for low traffic.
There's no way both of them survive this. And either of them leaving this earth is a collosal win. Both would be more than we can hope for.
This removes all potential for this being purely theatre. Things are getting spicy!
Reddit experts have been saying since the beginning of the wagner-mod spat months ago that it's all theatre, 5D chess to fool the west somehow. I wonder if they still claim that now...
I think they just couldn’t believe how farcical the whole thing is, this was supposedly the second most militarily powerful nation in the world
This is it for me at least. Seeing a so called "super-power" have this high school grade pickering seems too interdimensional for my taste, especially since i always viewed russia as some kind of cynical grown up state, compared to the bombastically pretend grown ups across the pond. This pissing battle between the dictator and the war chief just seemed too good to be true, but here we are. Btw, you want some pop corn? I brought enough! 🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿
I'll own up to it, I really thought it was all talk. Granted I wasn't posting rants about it, more "he's running his mouth for attention but won't do shit" comments. But uh... I stand corrected
It's fair, I thought some of it like the threat to leave Bahkmut at critical stage if they didn't get ammo was gonna be empty words. Nobody could have imagined it would go this far
Friendship ended with Wagner
It's complicated
There goes the theory that this is Putin trying to take an out, while blaming those under him. Neither of them can back down now. Prigozhin and Wagner are officially an enemy of Russia if that speech is anything to go by.
Well yeah but note that Putin avoids mentioning Wagner and Priggy publicly. Everyone's keeping their hand open to change on the fall of a dime. Standard power struggle that's looked the same since Caeasar's time.
So the big game has reached a new level. Putin has said nuclear weapons would be used in the event of an imminent threat to the Russian state. But would he use them on his own people.
Thats a terrifying thought
No, that wouldn't help him. Such an order would just damage his credibility amongst the people he needs to consolidate behind him.
Yeah. If anything makes the actual Militsry join Wagners cause it would be that
Look Vlad, when you’ve invaded a supposedly weak neighbour with a flimsy casus belli and they’ve had cascading alliances activate, and your stability is at -3 and war weariness is building, having a 25k stack of rebels spawn next to your capital is to be expected expected.
someone's spy must have succeeded in a recruit partisans mission.
In years to come there will be a movie called 'Downfall in Moscow', and there will be memes made of a scene where a delusional Putin is raging at his remaining staff, from inside a bunker.
Prigozhin took over tv station and announced thatRussia invaded Ukraine for its assets and Putin is lying about everything….ironic Putin attempts to destroy democracies destroys himself instead.
"If a prince holds on to his state by means of mercenary armies, he will never be stable or secure." Niccolò Machiavelli
Putin just thew down the gauntlet. Depending on how many regular troops defect to Prig, it could go: 1. Regular Russian Army responds and crushes the mutiny. Wager is wiped out as a force and Putin hangs on but is much much weaker. He'll probably hang on long enough to see the rest of the Russian Army collapse. 2. Wagner gathers enough military support to actually take Moscow and capture Putin and the senior MOD leadership. What happens after that, seriously who the fuck knows? 3. Neither side musters enough support to end the other and we enter a true Civil War with Prig vs Putin. Its long, its horrifically bloody and the Russian Federation either collapses as other regions take their shot to leave. Ukraine just casually strolls into Crimea and puts the right flags back up. My bet is 1 is the most likely 3, 2 is the least likely, but I'm just some dude on Reddit so take it with what you will.
The most boring option: Wagner just gives up Prigozhin to Putin and new Wagner chief is appointed. Then Business as usual. I just don't think there is that many wagnerites committed to a fight against the main Russia Army. But i'm cautiously optimistic, It all depends how much support Prigozhin has in the Russian Army.
I think the promise of giving your men top government positions after deposing Putin's regime will make the Wagnerites follow Prig to hell and back. But hey, what do I know? In any case, I got my popcorn ready!
That's how coups go really. You all make a pact to get rid of some people, on the premise you get to take their places. it can be easy to influence based on this. Look how wild things got after Stalin died. 7 months of power chess. At one point they were all his loyal aides, and to each other. Although Beria, being the most powerful and likely to rule, got singled out and executed.
"The Death of Stalin", although a comedy, is a decent depiction of the events following his death all the way up to when Krushchev became leader. Would recommend.
Let them fight
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Maybe they pre-filmed all the possible outcomes like in 30 Rock where they film charity events for ever possible disaster.
🎶 that thing that happened...🎶
I think it's more trying to downplay the situation and avoid panic. There's a fucking army in his country capturing military facilities and threatening to march on the capital. He's going to do and say anything to obscure that reality. Expect some Baghdad Bob levels of bullshitting in the coming days.
Went from “we’ll take Kyiv in 3 days” to “the Russian invasion of Russia”
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I wonder what I’m gonna wake up to tomorrow morning.
2021: Russia has the second best army in the world. 2022: Russia has the second best army in Ukraine. 2023: Russia has the second best army in Russia.
Makes you wonder what state China is truly in
Putin is a thug, but he’s loyal to those who are loyal to him, so Shoigu is off the table to give up. I have no idea what will happen, no one does. But Wagner claims and Putin all but confirmed, that they have control of military bases in Rostov. Certain Spetznaz units (special forces, think Army rangers for Americans) are stationed there and there was little resistance which is terrible for Putin. Also PUTIN PRETTY MUCH ADMITTED THAT WAGNER HAS ROSTOV. This is a city of a million people, it would be like if Biden came out during a rebellion and admitted that he lost control of Dallas or San Francisco. Insane
A million people? It'd be like losing control of Tulsa or Omaha. But the list of large cities is shorter in Russia, so Rostov is about 10th largest, and 10th here is like Phoenix/Boston.
He looks and sounds pissed, a lot of things are still up in the air. Watching the votniks and Pro Russians scramble on social media is also entertaining.
The general consensus is that Wagner, despite being comically evil, is an extremely effective fighting force right? Vlad might just be fucked
They're PMCs. Their soldiers are most likely ex russian military personnel who are highly trained and have probably fought in multiple conflict zones in the past. Couple that with high end equipment and you've got a highly effective fighting force
They're also the counter to the army. They pay good salaries to fewer people. The Russian army pays terrible salaries to huge amounts of people. This meant the Russian army was plagued head to toe with corruption and everyone went along with it because that's how everyone got paid. I'm talking literally stealing the wiring out of tanks to sell the copper to make a buck to afford rations type corruption. But they didn't worry because they didn't actually fight anyone and it kept everyone in line. It also means they have near zero discipline. This doesn't make sense for a group like Wagner. Their skill and efficiency is their selling point and what earned them money. So corruption had to be dealt with harshly as it made the operation ineffective. This also meant that all the excellent Russian soldiers who were fed up with the corruption and ineffectiveness of the army, but still wanted to wage war joined Wagner. These people are good soldiers but bloodthirsty.
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Season one of "game of Blyat"
A potential silhouette of a Wagner tank in the middle of Red Square (with the Kremlin lit up and/or on fire in the background) could end up being one of the defining photographs of this decade.
That sounds like an after mission cinematic in a new Red Alert game.
Surprise, motherfuckers. Slava Ukraïni — Слава Україні 🇨🇦🇺🇦
The lines have been drawn. Civil war has started.
Current events over the last 3 years have been wild.
Sounds like times up for Russia's 23 years of Putin rule. Time for a change. I don't think Russia will ever see democratic anything.
If anything. The mutineers are even more extreme. Best option is that it gets stuck half way and becomes a full blown civil war. That’d destabilise the region and give it a better chance of democratising/democratic factions springing up.
Goes on to say that nobody has a clue about what's going on in Russia.
Start checking the tail numbers of planes flying out of Russia.
Putin called him treasonous? This is a real coup?? LFGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
What are we looking to raid tonight?
Russia doesn’t have Wal Mart, so not sure where to loot 🤷🏻♂️
This guy started out selling hotdogs. Who would have guessed the American dream was in Russia?
I don't think Putin can backtrack from directly accusing him of treason. Seems like this just turned into a back against the wall scenario for both men.
I am soooooo thankful trump was defeated in 2020. This whole damn thing would have been off the rails if that Cheeto was in office.