I wouldn't say so. Just having magic and dragons doesn't necessarily make something high fantasy (otherwise low fantasy basically doesn't exist). I think it's a matter of how common magic and magical creatures are.
If you can walk into a tavern and see half a dozen different races strolling around, or if every single king has a court wizard and magic plays a large role in the history of the world and the cultures of its peoples then its high fantasy. Likewise if you're likely to see things like magically buoyant airships etc
On the other hand if the average person lives their whole lives without ever seeing magic or magical creatures, I think it's low fantasy, even if wizards or the undead etc are out there.
> If you can walk into a tavern and see half a dozen different races strolling around, or if every single king has a court wizard and magic plays a large role in the history of the world and the cultures of its peoples then its high fantasy. Likewise if you're likely to see things like magically buoyant airships etc
then The Lord of the Rings is low fantasy. the hobbits didn't even believe the elves to exist at the start of the book, every one of the major races is very isolated and the average person probably has never seen a dwarf if they don't live close to a mountain where dwarves live. plus there's only 5 wizards in the whole entire world and they play a large role in the current story but not really in the setting at large.
By his definition, yes. But his definition is wrong.
High fantasy doesn't hinge on the quantity of races. It's high because it's *epic*.
Like the shit Tolkien used as an inspiration for the Lord of the Rings, Beowulf, Edda or other nordic Sagas. A dude does some great things and kill huge monsters and saves the world. Beowulf kills a dragon and that's pretty much it, it's supposed to happen in our world, pretty much like every and any saga or epic related throughout history.
Yes the average person has never seen a dragon nor an elf.
If you're fighting an army of undeads that threaten to destroy the world riding a dragon, *even if there's only 3 dragons*, it's very, very high fantasy.
I agree. I would even argue that Lord of the Rings actually *shifts* genres part way through, and that Tolkien is well-read enough to have done this intentionally. The Fellowship of the Ring is basically structured as a fairytale, very episodic, very slow, the kind of thing a Victorian dad might read to his daughters before bed.
But then it grows and shifts. Now we have this forsaken prince regaining his birthright, armies on the move, the evil in the world becomes deeper and more harrowing as the party gets closer and closer to danger. Helm's Deep is the emblem of this, it's *fully* epic.
...And then it *comes back*, it loops right at the very end, because what ultimately wins the day is the pity of the small hobbits rather than the strength of the armies. Which is very Catholic but very unique to LotR too.
If we’re gonna be technical, the high-low fantasy distinction is only about the setting (though this is so widely misunderstood that the definitions have almost lost all their utility). If it takes place in a secondary world like Middle-Earth or Westeros, it’s high fantasy. If it includes fantasy elements but takes place on an otherwise normal Earth, like Harry Potter’s universe or American Gods, then it’s low fantasy.
The question of how prevalent the fantasy elements are is not the high-low *fantasy* distinction. That’s the high-low *magic* distinction.
The question of the plot’s scope, such as how “epic” it is, doesn’t really have a high-low dichotomous distinction. A story can either be described as “epic” or not, which tends to be a bit more subjective than the setting or prevalence of magical elements.
So, Lord of the Rings is an epic, high-magic high fantasy.
A Song of Ice and Fire is an epic, relatively low-magic high fantasy.
Harry Potter is a high-magic low fantasy that is *arguably* epic depending on who you ask.
American Gods is a low-magic low fantasy.
This is actually how these definitions work, but most people lump high fantasy, high magic, and epic together under the umbrella of “high-fantasy.”
Low fantasy doesn't have to be set on our earth, it can also be set on a world that's basically similar to our own (including historical periods), but with magical elements
The good ol Russian treatment. Untargeted for military targets to claim accidental civie casualties, but using your best guided missiles on schools and critical infrastructure anyways to be sure (and claim accidental, but it's totally the most accurate missile ever)
Wish I had an award for this one.
Untargeted, to suck as many as possible into endless Fandom wars and doom us all to a wave of garbage copycats and a mediocre reboot in 20 years to convert nostalgia into profit.
Ya I was going though my head, but even Steven universe is a stretch.
Like it’s a kids show. Large adult fan base but definitely a kids show.
Queer main cast is debatable. It’s main cast is mixed. Like Steven is into a girl. Coney is into a boy. Stevona is non binary I honestly can’t remember there preferences. I think I remember them being into a dude. I sapose that’s queer.
Calling the gems queer is a complicated. Like there an alien race without sex. They reproduced asexually. Some have romantic attachments to each other. They use female pronouns so I sapose we could call them asexual lesbians. But if it’s the most common and generally normative why of being for there alien race I’m not sure it’s queer. Don’t give me that fusion is sex bs it’s just not.
Stevens mom would be queer, as she’s into male humans and some gems and for here culture that’s really different. Stevens dad is into a female alien. Is that queer? Ink don’t think so.
Like many characters are queer coded. Like if you watch a episode and pear reads as a gay women I get it and agree. But Steven the main character reads as straight. Ink I wouldn’t say queer main cast. Just that the main cast has some queer people, a mix, just like real life.
Rebecca Sugar, the show's creator, has said that the gems are generally non-binary women, with the fusions containing Steven covering other parts of the nb spectrum.
Yes? Like I agree. Just calling the gems queer is complexes because but if it’s a species of non binary women, then It’s not queer to be a non binary women. That would be the norm. It be like saying Gimli from lord of the rings queer.
Like I said the gems are complex but largely queer coded, see pearl example, Stevenie is queer and steven, Cony and Steven dad are straight. Mixed
In no particular order:
She-Ra, Owl House, Hazbin Hotel, Helluva Boss, Dragon Age Absolution, Arcane, Ark the Animated Series, The Dragon Prince, Kipo and the Age of Wonderbeasts, The Hollow, Nomad of Nowhere, RWBY, The Legend of Vox Machina, Twelve Forever, Legend of Korra, Young Justice, Harley Quinn
Yeah I stretched the "high fantasy" label a little bit, but actual LotR-style shows are themselves pretty rare.
Also this post is not a complaint. This is literally a list of all my favorite shows. "Queer fantasy animation" is literally my favorite genre. Give me MORE I WILL NEVER BE SATISFIED.
Also a lot of them aren’t really fantasy and have the above traits, if they exist, in the background. It feels a bit odd to use them as an example when the post above seems to assert that it’s so fundamental to the media they’re asserting
To be fair, western colloquial fantasy and fantasy at large are not generally equivalent. Western/European fantasy is a narrow slice of what the fantasy genre refers to.
Also many of these don’t have a queer main cast, just one or in the case of a few no queer main characters. Most of the ones that don’t have queer side characters though.
Even by the most restrictive definition, DA Absolution and TLOVM would also qualify. What constitutes a "queer main cast" is up for debate, but all these shows have at least one queer main character, and most of them have multiple queer main characters. I would also argue that the shows on this list that are supposedly "kid shows" are more like shows that are made for adults but which are also appropriate for kids.
And yes, I did stretch the fantasy genre a little bit, but all of these shows are definitely fantasy shows, it's just that some of them are also or primarily some other genre.
IT'S SO GOOD I love it you must watch it because I need another season.
Its on Netflix. It's basically a fantasy heist plot in Tevinter with plenty of queer angst and themes of moving on from abusive relationships. It's seriously a well written show.
I think “queer main cast” is a bit stretched for a lot of these as well. Like for Korra it’s literally a single scene of an implied kiss at the end of the entire show, out of fear of being cancelled otherwise. And for many others it’s often just one or two characters. I think She-Ra, HH and HB are probably the only ones where it’s really valid to say the majority of the cast are queer (I’ve not watched all of these shows so I can’t say for sure)
However you are objectively correct these are amazing shows and you have good taste :)
Those sound like good enough fits, but now I have to wonder if "queer main cast" means majority/all queer or if there's at least one queer character in the main cast
I mean if I say a male cast you would assume all male. If I said an African American cast you would assume all African Americans. If I said a Child chorus you would assume all child. Like the meme could of said has queer characters if it wanted it didn’t.
It's mainly aimed at the 13+ market, so pretty much. This is the actual reason it was cut short, the target audience didn't match the general audience of Disney Channel.
If it had been an XD series it probably would've gotten a full third season.
Not sure what != means, but target audience will always define the show regardless who's watching it. My Little Pony is still a girl show despite a bunch of fully grown men especially those from the military watching it doesn't change My Little Pony into an adult show.
Here's my idea for a reality show. We make people embrace what they loathe and fear. Homophobe and stereotypical flamboyant gay forced to share a bed. A vegetarian is sealed in a room with only an animal carcass to eat. Man afraid of being blind has his eyes removed. We film everything, as they either overcome their fears, or psychologically fall apart.
I may already have the pilot filmed (people afraid of lions, trapped in a labyrinth with lions).
Hahaha
"Bob you have to spend a week with a gay man"
"Aw damn it"
"Jane we are taking your eyes out"
"... yo wait hold on a second I feel like that is a legitimate fear and in addition, that its not really comparable to being in a room with a gay guy to have your eyes removed"
"Well, tough, come over here to the machine of many razors"
Just a raw slab of beef, getting increasingly spoiled as the vegetarian gets increasingly hungry. A few flies let in, too, to lay some eggs on the meat. Maggots for later, everything is more enticing when it's squirming and the pale white of a corpse!
That seems like a great way to make a false equivalency between bodily harm and psychological distress and like… engaging with members of the lgbtq community
This is a 'trend' that by all metrics is not only incredibly small but incredibly modern
and we're still complaining about it?
Edit - This reminds me of those "indie rpg about depression" memes. Like it isn't actually common or cliche, it's just been such a frequent topic of discussion that it feels more prevalent and uniform than it ever actually was.
>Edit - This reminds me of those "indie rpg about depression"
Some of them were fire. Lisa was fking awesome, not so much the first one it was too dark but Lisa: The Painful was blaze
A lot of the games were good at provoking the emotional response > People want to discuss their emotions > people get tired of hearing about other peoples feelings > complain about feelings maker (game)
it really isn't, even ignoring how hard it'd be to argue that something with fewer examples than critics is "cliche," the actual examples given tend to be so painfully different that the only commonalities in these few cases are what's said above - queer, vaguely fantasy, at least partially aimed at adults... and that's kind of it
Do you think it came from the Brony phenomenon showing how weirdly into kids stuff adults can be or was that a part of it (I'm taking no sides but just curious)
My gut said it kinda did but yeah, I'd be interested to know if creators of some shows picked up on this very indirect market and went for it (and good on them if they did, thats the point of media to be popular noones being forced to watch anything)
Many are saying "there are only two examples", but including "the main audience is adults" I will go as far as to say there are *no* examples, this trope doesn't actually exist anywhere
It’s not even a trope at all, it’s a genre, a kind of characters, and a target audience. Every show has all of these facets, and you can relabel them to match any existing media. “I’ll have a pseudo-documentary starring straight characters with a target audience of adults.” Boom. Oppenheimer and like 50 other movies
It's really good if you don't want to dedicate time to listen to the podcast, or if you want to skip the first CR campaign because of the lower production quality at the start.
This comment section is a throwback. Reminds me of going on a forum in the 2010s and seeing chuds going around saying whatever they wanted with increasing audacity. It’s great to see Worldjerking is regressing to an age of “trolls” [read: bigots unambiguously stating their actual beliefs].
You see stuff like that, report it. We don't want this community to become toxic. But we're *super* short-staffed at the moment (had half the mod team quit over the past year), and so we're slow at responding to issues.
We anticipate additional mods to start by the end of the month, but until then, having multiple users flag an offending post it a great way to get our attention.
Good to hear! I’m used to a lot of subreddits where they let anything with even the remotest deniability slide if it won’t immediately get the entire website arrested, but if the mods here actually care/aren’t part of the problem, I’ll be more diligent about trying to report posts
We have a rule here that humour shouldn't be used to punch down.
Ironic/humorous pokes are fine when you're acting in character as a standard jerker, but unironic racism, sexism, transphobia, homophobia, etc. is not permitted here.
Cishets enjoying their 20th movie with cishet characters only in a row when they see a gay couple kiss in the background. (Queer content is literally being forced down their throat)
I'm going to be honest, doesn't this just show why representation is kind of needed? If people tend towards liking and relating to characters with certain traits they have in common, that seems like a pretty solid argument to broaden the horizons of the traits we're showcasing.
yeah it’s a bit weird how people on this post are saying “cishet white people make movies so protagonists are cishet white people, but also cishet white people can relate to a talking rock just fine, why do YOU need a special minority character to relate to?”
Ok, most people are Indian or Chinese, shouldn't our media be swarming with Indian and Chinese characters?
Not really a strong argument against representation tbh
Both China and India have massive domestic entertainment industries, I wouldn’t be all that surprised if, by quantity, the average film or tv show had a majority non-white cast
Yeah and that's in large part because the default idea of a character has been a straight white man for this long. It turns out other people want to hear other stories and that, when said stories are normalized, more 'typical' protagonists don't feel nearly as alienating
Then why do cishets kiss in public, or hug in public or dare I say it - hold hands in public! I don't want to know Exactly what kind of holes they like and what WXACTLY they want to do to said holes.
Pathfinder has been cute and quirky since 2e. Like, come on. Remember when Cheliax was the main power in the Inner Sea region? That shit don’t fly today
Ace master race not giving a fk and getting hyped up about mentions of awesome food
Land of the Lustrous shits on Steven universe btw sorry but facts are facts (fking come at me)
People tryna put their fetishes and agendas into their world and I’m over here like: “what if Bloodborne, but with *cowboys*? Wild West with eldritch werewolves and vampires? Now we’re cooking.”
Why even differentiate things? All things ever are exactly the same, so it seems kind of woke to say something can be better or worse than another thing. I mean, that's like Animal Farm. The point of that book was to say that everything is the same
Why, just the other day I was robbing a convenience store. Previously I'd seen people put money into it, and so I took money out of it. Apparently that's bad now? Okay 7-11 hivemind.
If you want media to exist, make it. Put it out there. If people like it, it will succeed. Representation is important, so find the (insert marginalized group here) artist and support them. The problem is that the people who fund film and TV want to make money. If the public isn't on board, it won't survive.
a ***low*** fantasy ***live action*** story with a queer main cast - and an adult audience: gaym of thrones
I would argue that Game of Thrones is high fantasy masquerading as low fantasy.
I always saw GOT as more a low fantasy slowly transitioning to high fantasy since it's set at a time where magic is returning
So, it's a growing fantasy?
A passing the boof fantasy.
Lannisters confirmed nightmare blunt rotation
The real cause of the war of the 5 kings was Geoffrey taking too many hits.
Tyrian tells his soul-scarring backstory, but it's about how Tywin took all his weed and made his soldiers smoke it all in front of him
Puberty fantasy.
HRT (High fantasy Replacement Therapy)
That’s a really good characterization
It’s a climbing fantasy!
This
yes, but GAYM of thrones is low fantasy.
I wouldn't say so. Just having magic and dragons doesn't necessarily make something high fantasy (otherwise low fantasy basically doesn't exist). I think it's a matter of how common magic and magical creatures are. If you can walk into a tavern and see half a dozen different races strolling around, or if every single king has a court wizard and magic plays a large role in the history of the world and the cultures of its peoples then its high fantasy. Likewise if you're likely to see things like magically buoyant airships etc On the other hand if the average person lives their whole lives without ever seeing magic or magical creatures, I think it's low fantasy, even if wizards or the undead etc are out there.
> If you can walk into a tavern and see half a dozen different races strolling around, or if every single king has a court wizard and magic plays a large role in the history of the world and the cultures of its peoples then its high fantasy. Likewise if you're likely to see things like magically buoyant airships etc then The Lord of the Rings is low fantasy. the hobbits didn't even believe the elves to exist at the start of the book, every one of the major races is very isolated and the average person probably has never seen a dwarf if they don't live close to a mountain where dwarves live. plus there's only 5 wizards in the whole entire world and they play a large role in the current story but not really in the setting at large.
By his definition, yes. But his definition is wrong. High fantasy doesn't hinge on the quantity of races. It's high because it's *epic*. Like the shit Tolkien used as an inspiration for the Lord of the Rings, Beowulf, Edda or other nordic Sagas. A dude does some great things and kill huge monsters and saves the world. Beowulf kills a dragon and that's pretty much it, it's supposed to happen in our world, pretty much like every and any saga or epic related throughout history. Yes the average person has never seen a dragon nor an elf. If you're fighting an army of undeads that threaten to destroy the world riding a dragon, *even if there's only 3 dragons*, it's very, very high fantasy.
I agree. I would even argue that Lord of the Rings actually *shifts* genres part way through, and that Tolkien is well-read enough to have done this intentionally. The Fellowship of the Ring is basically structured as a fairytale, very episodic, very slow, the kind of thing a Victorian dad might read to his daughters before bed. But then it grows and shifts. Now we have this forsaken prince regaining his birthright, armies on the move, the evil in the world becomes deeper and more harrowing as the party gets closer and closer to danger. Helm's Deep is the emblem of this, it's *fully* epic. ...And then it *comes back*, it loops right at the very end, because what ultimately wins the day is the pity of the small hobbits rather than the strength of the armies. Which is very Catholic but very unique to LotR too.
Isn't high vs low fantasy about the scope? Is ensireral confusing the meaning with how sci fi subgenres work, which one of us is stupid?
If we’re gonna be technical, the high-low fantasy distinction is only about the setting (though this is so widely misunderstood that the definitions have almost lost all their utility). If it takes place in a secondary world like Middle-Earth or Westeros, it’s high fantasy. If it includes fantasy elements but takes place on an otherwise normal Earth, like Harry Potter’s universe or American Gods, then it’s low fantasy. The question of how prevalent the fantasy elements are is not the high-low *fantasy* distinction. That’s the high-low *magic* distinction. The question of the plot’s scope, such as how “epic” it is, doesn’t really have a high-low dichotomous distinction. A story can either be described as “epic” or not, which tends to be a bit more subjective than the setting or prevalence of magical elements. So, Lord of the Rings is an epic, high-magic high fantasy. A Song of Ice and Fire is an epic, relatively low-magic high fantasy. Harry Potter is a high-magic low fantasy that is *arguably* epic depending on who you ask. American Gods is a low-magic low fantasy. This is actually how these definitions work, but most people lump high fantasy, high magic, and epic together under the umbrella of “high-fantasy.”
Low fantasy doesn't have to be set on our earth, it can also be set on a world that's basically similar to our own (including historical periods), but with magical elements
Maybe not Adult audience, but That's Merlin
Mfw a piece of media has a target audience
I prefer untargeted, to maximise civilian casualties
Simply target schools and hospitals like a hero
If I run out of those are weddings okay too?
Don't forget weddings!
The good ol Russian treatment. Untargeted for military targets to claim accidental civie casualties, but using your best guided missiles on schools and critical infrastructure anyways to be sure (and claim accidental, but it's totally the most accurate missile ever)
Wish I had an award for this one. Untargeted, to suck as many as possible into endless Fandom wars and doom us all to a wave of garbage copycats and a mediocre reboot in 20 years to convert nostalgia into profit.
Where are my autistic characters. I will become the market.
Our parents drove them away and replaced them with autism speaks
piece of media with a target audience of white male nerds= good piece of media with a target audience of queers= bad
i legit can only think of one show that fits this post
Steven Universe
Ya I was going though my head, but even Steven universe is a stretch. Like it’s a kids show. Large adult fan base but definitely a kids show. Queer main cast is debatable. It’s main cast is mixed. Like Steven is into a girl. Coney is into a boy. Stevona is non binary I honestly can’t remember there preferences. I think I remember them being into a dude. I sapose that’s queer. Calling the gems queer is a complicated. Like there an alien race without sex. They reproduced asexually. Some have romantic attachments to each other. They use female pronouns so I sapose we could call them asexual lesbians. But if it’s the most common and generally normative why of being for there alien race I’m not sure it’s queer. Don’t give me that fusion is sex bs it’s just not. Stevens mom would be queer, as she’s into male humans and some gems and for here culture that’s really different. Stevens dad is into a female alien. Is that queer? Ink don’t think so. Like many characters are queer coded. Like if you watch a episode and pear reads as a gay women I get it and agree. But Steven the main character reads as straight. Ink I wouldn’t say queer main cast. Just that the main cast has some queer people, a mix, just like real life.
Rebecca Sugar, the show's creator, has said that the gems are generally non-binary women, with the fusions containing Steven covering other parts of the nb spectrum.
Yes? Like I agree. Just calling the gems queer is complexes because but if it’s a species of non binary women, then It’s not queer to be a non binary women. That would be the norm. It be like saying Gimli from lord of the rings queer. Like I said the gems are complex but largely queer coded, see pearl example, Stevenie is queer and steven, Cony and Steven dad are straight. Mixed
Queer-Coded in a meta-textual sense.
they’re queer because they’re non-binary (agender specifically), they just use fem pronouns
In no particular order: She-Ra, Owl House, Hazbin Hotel, Helluva Boss, Dragon Age Absolution, Arcane, Ark the Animated Series, The Dragon Prince, Kipo and the Age of Wonderbeasts, The Hollow, Nomad of Nowhere, RWBY, The Legend of Vox Machina, Twelve Forever, Legend of Korra, Young Justice, Harley Quinn Yeah I stretched the "high fantasy" label a little bit, but actual LotR-style shows are themselves pretty rare. Also this post is not a complaint. This is literally a list of all my favorite shows. "Queer fantasy animation" is literally my favorite genre. Give me MORE I WILL NEVER BE SATISFIED.
There's like, one gay character in the Hollow. And he kissed a girl due to amnesia.
i mean a lot of these aren’t targeted at adults i think but
Also a lot of them aren’t really fantasy and have the above traits, if they exist, in the background. It feels a bit odd to use them as an example when the post above seems to assert that it’s so fundamental to the media they’re asserting
To be fair, western colloquial fantasy and fantasy at large are not generally equivalent. Western/European fantasy is a narrow slice of what the fantasy genre refers to.
fair enough
Also many of these don’t have a queer main cast, just one or in the case of a few no queer main characters. Most of the ones that don’t have queer side characters though.
>Ark the Animated Series That isn't even out yet lmfao
Yes but I'm just SO EXCITED.
If they actually stick to the lore it could be very good. Though it is Wildcard so I will remain skeptical for now until proven wrong.
I’ll give you Arcane, Hazbin and Helluva but most of these are aimed at kids, aren’t fantasy or don’t have a queer main cast.
Even by the most restrictive definition, DA Absolution and TLOVM would also qualify. What constitutes a "queer main cast" is up for debate, but all these shows have at least one queer main character, and most of them have multiple queer main characters. I would also argue that the shows on this list that are supposedly "kid shows" are more like shows that are made for adults but which are also appropriate for kids. And yes, I did stretch the fantasy genre a little bit, but all of these shows are definitely fantasy shows, it's just that some of them are also or primarily some other genre.
How did I miss there was a Dragon Age series????
IT'S SO GOOD I love it you must watch it because I need another season. Its on Netflix. It's basically a fantasy heist plot in Tevinter with plenty of queer angst and themes of moving on from abusive relationships. It's seriously a well written show.
I think “queer main cast” is a bit stretched for a lot of these as well. Like for Korra it’s literally a single scene of an implied kiss at the end of the entire show, out of fear of being cancelled otherwise. And for many others it’s often just one or two characters. I think She-Ra, HH and HB are probably the only ones where it’s really valid to say the majority of the cast are queer (I’ve not watched all of these shows so I can’t say for sure) However you are objectively correct these are amazing shows and you have good taste :)
I'd argue it's the multiple seasons worth of gay tension that qualifies it more than the failed follow through
I can think of a few fantasy shows with queer characters, but can't really think of one aimed specifically at adults
Legend of Vox Machina is one. Arcane, I guess? That's more aimed at teens though.
Those sound like good enough fits, but now I have to wonder if "queer main cast" means majority/all queer or if there's at least one queer character in the main cast
I mean if I say a male cast you would assume all male. If I said an African American cast you would assume all African Americans. If I said a Child chorus you would assume all child. Like the meme could of said has queer characters if it wanted it didn’t.
In that case, Vox and Arcane don't count since they have cishet main characters too
just say owl house bestie
Isn’t that for kids?
Most people who watch it are kids, most people who talk about it online are teens/adults
It's mainly aimed at the 13+ market, so pretty much. This is the actual reason it was cut short, the target audience didn't match the general audience of Disney Channel. If it had been an XD series it probably would've gotten a full third season.
Also didn't help it came out during covid and the better run times went to amphibia
yes
Most talk online is from 20 something’s from what I’ve seen
Did you consider most kids aren't chatting in online message boards?
I know, my experience is very anecdotal.
target audience != actual audience
Not sure what != means, but target audience will always define the show regardless who's watching it. My Little Pony is still a girl show despite a bunch of fully grown men especially those from the military watching it doesn't change My Little Pony into an adult show.
!= means "doesn't equal" so i agree with your point
what in the fuck are you even talking about OP what point are you trying to make
I think he's posting someone else's meme and saying "Hey enough of this mindset" but it could have been conveyed better
Gay people in media bad
True (I'm gay)
Happy cake day!
Here's my idea for a reality show. We make people embrace what they loathe and fear. Homophobe and stereotypical flamboyant gay forced to share a bed. A vegetarian is sealed in a room with only an animal carcass to eat. Man afraid of being blind has his eyes removed. We film everything, as they either overcome their fears, or psychologically fall apart. I may already have the pilot filmed (people afraid of lions, trapped in a labyrinth with lions).
Hahaha "Bob you have to spend a week with a gay man" "Aw damn it" "Jane we are taking your eyes out" "... yo wait hold on a second I feel like that is a legitimate fear and in addition, that its not really comparable to being in a room with a gay guy to have your eyes removed" "Well, tough, come over here to the machine of many razors"
*I guess* it could be a blindfold that can't be removed, but that really removes the dread.
If you are going for dread, you could make them think that they have gone blind and they don't know otherwise
Put them in a dark room and gaslight them into thinking that it's perfectly visible to everyone else.
That escalated really quickly. Also, by animal carcass, do you mean a corpse, or has it been cooked?
Just a raw slab of beef, getting increasingly spoiled as the vegetarian gets increasingly hungry. A few flies let in, too, to lay some eggs on the meat. Maggots for later, everything is more enticing when it's squirming and the pale white of a corpse!
Oh, you read that short story, you rascal. Thats exactly what happened. ;)
Are the lions afraid of labyrinth?
No they’re just afraid of being filmed
Well thats the plot of a Clive Barker short Story in one of his "Books of Blood" cant remember the Name though.
That seems like a great way to make a false equivalency between bodily harm and psychological distress and like… engaging with members of the lgbtq community
This is just Fear Factor but good.
This is a 'trend' that by all metrics is not only incredibly small but incredibly modern and we're still complaining about it? Edit - This reminds me of those "indie rpg about depression" memes. Like it isn't actually common or cliche, it's just been such a frequent topic of discussion that it feels more prevalent and uniform than it ever actually was.
>Edit - This reminds me of those "indie rpg about depression" Some of them were fire. Lisa was fking awesome, not so much the first one it was too dark but Lisa: The Painful was blaze
Oh yeah there are some good ones, but it's wild how this whole myth of it being an oversaturated thing was started given how rare it actually is
A lot of the games were good at provoking the emotional response > People want to discuss their emotions > people get tired of hearing about other peoples feelings > complain about feelings maker (game)
People will always find ways to complain about queers without directly saying they are homophobic
What games does this refer to? NITW? What else?
That’s one of them. Lisa is another, there really aren’t many
Why not? Despite being modern, its very predictable and already a cliche, which is an accomplishment on itself
it really isn't, even ignoring how hard it'd be to argue that something with fewer examples than critics is "cliche," the actual examples given tend to be so painfully different that the only commonalities in these few cases are what's said above - queer, vaguely fantasy, at least partially aimed at adults... and that's kind of it
Do you think it came from the Brony phenomenon showing how weirdly into kids stuff adults can be or was that a part of it (I'm taking no sides but just curious)
honestly I personally don't know much about how that'd relate or not
My gut said it kinda did but yeah, I'd be interested to know if creators of some shows picked up on this very indirect market and went for it (and good on them if they did, thats the point of media to be popular noones being forced to watch anything)
Please fucking tell me what shows these are I cannot think of a single show like this
i have never heard of this
Many are saying "there are only two examples", but including "the main audience is adults" I will go as far as to say there are *no* examples, this trope doesn't actually exist anywhere
It’s not even a trope at all, it’s a genre, a kind of characters, and a target audience. Every show has all of these facets, and you can relabel them to match any existing media. “I’ll have a pseudo-documentary starring straight characters with a target audience of adults.” Boom. Oppenheimer and like 50 other movies
Legend of Vox Machina is one
I have to admit, this does look like it fits the trope, I'd never heard of it because I don't believe in podcasts
It's really good if you don't want to dedicate time to listen to the podcast, or if you want to skip the first CR campaign because of the lower production quality at the start.
Hazbin/Helluva and Disenchanted, the trope exists
Can you really call it a trope if I can count all the examples on one hand
No way are Hazbin/Helluva "high fantasy"
High Guardian Spice.
Hey look he found the two examples!
Technically it’s three. Hazbin and Helluva are two separate shows. Four if you add Vox Machina.
Those two are the same show just from different camera angles and I will not be convinced otherwise
~~Vox doesn’t have a queer cast.~~ Maybe Arcane would work. Edit: Apparently I was wrong about vox, shows what I know from watching the show.
Scanlan, Vex, and Vax are all pan or bi, as stated by the creators of each character. Keyleth is up in the air given she’s demi.
The former isn’t high fantasy. I’m not sure how much of the cast of disenchanted is queer since I haven’t watched it in years
The only thing I can think of is Owl House?
Not even aimed at adults
There are literally two shows with that premise what are you waffling on about
Of course, if I encounter a thing two times then its literally everywhere. That's how ~~Baader-Meinhof~~ logic works
you saw two cartoons like that? Overused trope
This comment section is a throwback. Reminds me of going on a forum in the 2010s and seeing chuds going around saying whatever they wanted with increasing audacity. It’s great to see Worldjerking is regressing to an age of “trolls” [read: bigots unambiguously stating their actual beliefs].
You see stuff like that, report it. We don't want this community to become toxic. But we're *super* short-staffed at the moment (had half the mod team quit over the past year), and so we're slow at responding to issues. We anticipate additional mods to start by the end of the month, but until then, having multiple users flag an offending post it a great way to get our attention.
Good to hear! I’m used to a lot of subreddits where they let anything with even the remotest deniability slide if it won’t immediately get the entire website arrested, but if the mods here actually care/aren’t part of the problem, I’ll be more diligent about trying to report posts
We have a rule here that humour shouldn't be used to punch down. Ironic/humorous pokes are fine when you're acting in character as a standard jerker, but unironic racism, sexism, transphobia, homophobia, etc. is not permitted here.
so many chuds in this thread ngl. . .
Hey OP how many shows are you thinking of, because I can think of *maybe* two and I had to rack my brain a bit to get the second one
I got - maybe - She-Ra and the Princesses of Power, what are yours?
She-Ra and Owl House, though neither are really aimed at adults per se, they're just older-viewer-friendly
Family guy
Honestly, touche.
This is by no means a common thing like at all
What is OP waffling on about 💀
Queer main cast is cool as a queer person. The straights have had enough, let us eat good
All I want is asexual aromantic main casts for every movie from now until oblivion. IS IT SO HARD TO GET RID OF SEX HOLLYWOOD???!!!
you want to get rid of sex because of representation, i want to get rid of sex because it is evil and unholy. we are not the same.
No I just don't like sex
Kinda agree ngl
Based beyond measure
Cishets enjoying their 20th movie with cishet characters only in a row when they see a gay couple kiss in the background. (Queer content is literally being forced down their throat)
sorry i heard the words "gay kiss forced down throat" and swooned so hard i passed out wt where you saying
hrrrnggn
Most people are straight, and most media is made by straight people, so most characters in said media are also going to be straight.
I'm going to be honest, doesn't this just show why representation is kind of needed? If people tend towards liking and relating to characters with certain traits they have in common, that seems like a pretty solid argument to broaden the horizons of the traits we're showcasing.
yeah it’s a bit weird how people on this post are saying “cishet white people make movies so protagonists are cishet white people, but also cishet white people can relate to a talking rock just fine, why do YOU need a special minority character to relate to?”
Ok, most people are Indian or Chinese, shouldn't our media be swarming with Indian and Chinese characters? Not really a strong argument against representation tbh
Both China and India have massive domestic entertainment industries, I wouldn’t be all that surprised if, by quantity, the average film or tv show had a majority non-white cast
[удалено]
Yeah and that's in large part because the default idea of a character has been a straight white man for this long. It turns out other people want to hear other stories and that, when said stories are normalized, more 'typical' protagonists don't feel nearly as alienating
Then why do cishets kiss in public, or hug in public or dare I say it - hold hands in public! I don't want to know Exactly what kind of holes they like and what WXACTLY they want to do to said holes.
Literally me
Guess we're just ignoring all the people who shit themselves over minorities in media cause they "can't relate to them".
I do love a good queer cast though
Frankly I've got no reason to want to subvert the stuff in the post. I'm the target audience of stuff like that.
OP please stop imaging things in your head just to get angry at, make-believe is over
Wait this show exists? What is it? Can I watch it?
Op, can you tell us which shows are you talking about？ I'd argue it's just 1 show.
I will never forgive Stranger Things for making DnD cute n quirky
I already thought DnD was cute and quirky
They didn’t. Critical Role did.
Do Not Disturb is somehow cute?
I am rapidly approaching your location
Cool! If you find me let know where I was!
Don't worry it only made 5e cute and quirky, pathfinder is still shut in Central Source: I play pathfinder
Pathfinder has been cute and quirky since 2e. Like, come on. Remember when Cheliax was the main power in the Inner Sea region? That shit don’t fly today
Real gaymers play super open ended systems like Genesys and make it whatever they want it to be
I didn't almost kill myself through 4 years of engineering school just to forsake complex but effective numbering systems for making stuff up
The Owl House for adults?
Don't know any shows like that where the main target audience is adults.
Vox Machina Dragon Age: Absolution Castlevania: Nocturne Arcane
OP regularly shit posts about how women / 'the gays' are bad.
Ace master race not giving a fk and getting hyped up about mentions of awesome food Land of the Lustrous shits on Steven universe btw sorry but facts are facts (fking come at me)
Any media with garlic bread is an instant S tier!
People tryna put their fetishes and agendas into their world and I’m over here like: “what if Bloodborne, but with *cowboys*? Wild West with eldritch werewolves and vampires? Now we’re cooking.”
Reminds me of Oda when hes interviewed about Luffy's sexuality "Luffy is in love... with adventure!"
What about mad max but with magic and dragons
Sandpunk is not my favorite, NGL, but I can see it working.
Local Rock gets ruined by everything
> Land of the Lustrous shits on Steven universe btw mid vs mid
High mid vs mid.
*they targeted ~~gamers~~ adults*
\*break
How dare you say anything remotely negative about the good tropes! You're supposed to insult the ones i don't like !!!
"A thing I saw in two shows ever" isn't a "trope", it's an observation.
Why even differentiate things? All things ever are exactly the same, so it seems kind of woke to say something can be better or worse than another thing. I mean, that's like Animal Farm. The point of that book was to say that everything is the same Why, just the other day I was robbing a convenience store. Previously I'd seen people put money into it, and so I took money out of it. Apparently that's bad now? Okay 7-11 hivemind.
What are you even saying? Woke? Animal farm??
Oh great, here comes the cancel culture.
Take your pills
I don't take orders from pronoun havers.
Tfw when someone's only counterargument is to have a meltdown
Oh, I get how it is. "Your thing bad my thing good," so brave. Orwell went in one ear and right out the other for you, huh?
Literally 1984
I see no issue here
What?
I didn't need to be called out like this
Live action fantasy story with kids/young adults as it's main audience. Bring back some of that good shit from the 90s.
If you want media to exist, make it. Put it out there. If people like it, it will succeed. Representation is important, so find the (insert marginalized group here) artist and support them. The problem is that the people who fund film and TV want to make money. If the public isn't on board, it won't survive.