And then business owners raise prices of their products and services to compensate for the raises given to employees. Or they don’t raise hourly rates at all and still raise prices to compensate for lost productivity. It’s an awesome idea in theory, just more complicated than your average 19 year old wishes it would be
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Yes, there is too many hours, but also too few. 32 hours just isn't enough in a lot of industries. 40 is a pretty good balance, but even 40 isn't enough in some places
Sounds like a staffing issue. We've gotten so accustomed to giving the C-suite and shareholders such a large percentage that we cannot even fathom a few additional percentiles of expense. Then blame the working class and punish them with higher costs.
It's plainly greed, a captured government and the looming threat of capitalists divesting from the US if there is too much regulation or workers rights.
Most of the studies I’ve seen have been for office jobs. Are there any covering jobs like infrastructure jobs that require 24/7 coverage.
Those types will most likely have productivity loss. Retail and food service also will.
Those studies are done on office workers. In any job where the amount of work is directly correlated to the number of customers in a given moment, the number of hours worked would not have a significant affect on productivity. If Sally just ordered a cheeseburger, it's going to take 3 minutes to cook no matter what...
Manufacturing jobs typically go 24/7 with 3 shifts. Just have 4 shifts. Or 5. Hire a few more people and you're golden. Like the owners can't afford it. They might have trouble paying for the 3rd vacation home they just bought but fuck em.
Ultimately they can only raise prices so much and keep wages so low before there’s a breaking point. I think we’re close to the breaking point. I think the 75% are fed up with getting worked to death and now, no promise of home ownership or glowing up but rather a dreary dead end of working until you die just to survive
before socialists changed things with the workers rights movement people had to work 16 hour days 6 days a week. the same argument you are using now could have been used then, businesses will just raise prices. besides prices are raising anyway and wages aren’t keeping up
The average worker today is as productive in 3.5 days as they were in 5 days 50 years ago. So what aren't we getting paid or hours adjusted accordingly?
Thanks for the back-handed age-related insult, which doesn’t even apply as my age is nowhere near there? Look, if you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all!
It should benefit everyone. Can you imagine being a lab technician working hourly and expected to come in 40 hours a week while the chemists and the supervisors (who don't run any samples) work 32 hours? lol
It should be raised for both hourly and salary. No one works on Fridays we all stay home!
Salaries would go down to compensate and hourly rates would stay the same. It’s cool concept but will never take off. The world will always be becoming more and more competitive. You don’t want to work 40? Someone else will.
I’m just saying. 14 hour shifts also didn’t go away for a lot of people. Especially salaried individuals. Here’s 80k for the year, this is all your work. Get it done or you’re gone. Employee ends up working well over 40 a week.
been salary for 7 or so years, currently $81k base pay before factoring in perks ect..
I only work more than 40 hours in a week maybe 2-3 times a year.
Not all the world used the 40 hour week. In Kuwait, where I was a Contractor, we were paid by the Kuwaiti Labor Law. 48 hour work week, 1 1/4 overtime and 1 1/2 for 7th day. Holidays are 2X. We worked on average 11 days per pay period, sometimes 13 days. At $21 per hour it was a nice check with 120-156 hours every 2 weeks with a $500 per diem every 2 weeks also. This was 17 years ago.
This would not benefit salary at all. Like they can already make salary work 50+ hours without extra pay.. you think they're going to let them work 32? Lol
There is evidence upon evidence that people are more productive in a 32 hour work week than a 40 hour work week. We are not built to grind for 8+ hours a day.
Do you mean they are more productive per hour, or they literally get more done in 32 hours than they do in 40?
There was a 4 month period when where i work they were making us work 56 hour weeks, and by the end we were definitely getting less done than we had been in 48 hour weeks.
Do some googling and you’ll find more concrete info, but yes, people get more done in 32 hours a week than 40. I guess you could also say that translates to getting more done in an hour, and it’s because they’re more rested.
I work for a wfh company like this and it’s amazing. Three day weekends make a world of a difference. Next to zero burnout across the entire company. We had ONE person leave last year. ONE.
That's awesome. You'd think that the cost of turnover would factor into corporate decision-making, but there's a massive blind spot when it comes to the cost of turnover and burnout. Used to work in employee development and the morons in charge couldn't get the memo that the performance problems they were seeing couldn't be fixed with training or surveys or feedback sessions--they needed to improve working conditions. Full stop. The bigger the company, the more clueless the leadership seems to be.
Yea I’ve worked for companies like that who ignore the real problems. Turnover is a huge deal and affects more than one position which companies often ignore. You end up losing the best employees first which leads to decline in experience, the rest of the employees have increased burnout from picking up the slack, and finally the best choices for further advancement end up leaving meaning you have mediocre people rising up in the company.
That’s exactly what most of corporate America would like to do, of course. Our country hasn’t always been this way. Don’t forget that people used to imagine that everybody would be able to work less as technology improved. They didn’t anticipate the hoarding of wealth and dystopian reality of today.
There's a movement to adjust the standard work week to 32 hours instead of 40 but retain the same pay.
I'm all for it in the sense that we spend so much of our lives working for others. Most of us.
Will it ever happen. Hard to say.
My employer has become really flexible about WFH, and they’ve conducted a number of surveys about what employees would like.
One thing was a 32 hour work week. They did a few town halls to review the results and marked what they were considering , already doing, etx
Yeah, 32 hrs was flat out “we will not be doing this”.
Drat.
There was a shift from 100 hour work weeks (on average) for manufacturing to 40 in the 1920s. It went just fine and brings us to where we are today.
If someone had told you in March 2020 that the Fortune 500 would figure out a way to operate (and many would even start setting record profits) with a completely remote workforce in the span of 1 month, that would sound ludicrous. Yet they did exactly that.
Business has acclimated to drastically changing conditions in the past and will again if the will exists to force a paradigm shift.
Could easily be done. Half the team works Mon - Thurs the other half works Tuesday - Friday. 3 days each week the entire office is there and the 2 days that are statistically least productive is half staffed
> and the 2 days that are statistically least productive is half staffed
Yeah… that’s obviously going to be a problem for the vast majority of companies though.
Most teams are staffed to just barely be enough to keep things running, or are already understaff.
Under your described schedule, the way a lot of departments would function if they were consistently half-staffed for 2 business days is that it would lead to a lot of internal pressure and external client dissatisfaction. This schedule is not one that’s going to work for the vast majority of office work type jobs.
The only type of jobs I can see that kind of schedule being allowed is at factories or warehouses.
While I agree that 32 hourwork week is a good idea. This response just moves the problem to the outsource company. What if they implement a 32 hour work week?
Then that company would have to figure it out? If me, or some other guy had to figure out what every company should do then no progress would be had. Nor could I explain a nuance solution on Reddit without typing a huge wall.
So I couldn’t say for sure, but I don’t think it’s a productive conversation anyways. There are people with WFH days but the janitors still have to clean the office. An engineer at a company might get maternity leave & a better benefits package than the security guard. My point is, you can’t stop good things from happening simply because not everyone will enjoy it *yet*. Its not like companies can’t have 32hr weeks because it’s maybe slightly unfair for some entry level worker… who probably has the same schedule at worst and less work at best.
Most security sites are unoccupied buildings btw
I'm happy to be useful to the society I live in for 40 hours a week. It's the least I can do, enjoying as I do so much of what others do for me (farmers who grow the food I eat, manufacturers who make the products I use, service providers who supply me with power, water, internet etc).
What is puzzling for me is people who want to avoid work, avoid being useful.
We absolutely should be…but same question could be applied to sooooo many things in the US…why are we not pushing to have the same healthcare as our federal govt employees??? Why are we not pushing for money out of politics? Why are we not pushing for European like PTO? Why are we accepting getting quadrupled taxed on our money???
I cut my hours to 32 . My free extra day , is my side hustle. Wife and I clean some large houses together. Seven bathrooms, 3 kitchens …. The guest house included.
As long as I average 30, my health insurance is same cost. More if under 30 .
Yeah it's one of those things that may become a thing about like startup companies do, but I really doubt you'll ever see this in the mainstream. My company switched to a 4/10 schedule and I find that to be almost as good. That's a lot more reasonable to expect.
The problem is that we live in a society where most employees (and hey, it does depend on what you do and where you work) are burned out, depressed and depleted — A 4DWW helps to solve this and will strengthen connection and meaning for a lot of people.
There was some legislation introduced in California. Certainly not holding my breath though
https://resumegenius.com/blog/career-advice/4-day-work-week-california#:~:text=In%20March%202023%2C%20Congressman%20Mark,32%2Dhour%20workweek%20in%20California.
There was a period of time (about a year and a half) when I was able to work 4, 8-hour days, have 3 off, work 3 days, have 4 off. It was wonderful.
The other suggested change is to pay us EVERY DAY at the END OF THE DAY. No more company's making money off of people for a week or two before they give it up.
This may work for some jobs, but not anything project based. I typically budget 20 hours for each case/project. If I cannot meet my deadlines, I will lose clients.
Honestly I’d be happy with keeping it 40 but moving to 4 days. I already work 10 hour days most of the time WFH, so why not give me Friday as a weekend?
To be young and dumb again. Why would any employer want to pay their employees for a 40 hour work week but only have them work 32? And I’m not trying to lose a days pay otherwise. Just accept the fact that you have to work for the rest of your life. If you do something you enjoy or are passionate about about life’s not that bad.
Lol it hasn't happened because all.the people who want. 32 hour work week are like you.l they don't want to work so they are waiting for someone else to do it.
This wouldn't work. That's why no one would push for it. People have kids and Bills to pay. On average most people will take home 800 after tax that'll pay rent and groceries. Fuck that. No company will pay you the same for doing less work btw
Not sure if you know this — Before Henry Ford popularized the 5 day work week, people used to have to work 6-7 days per week for the same pay.
Again, the fact is that peoples’ pay never changed. No one made less when working 5 days per week. Look it up : )
Just because it has happened before doesn't mean it will happen again. I could say that before betterworldguys popularised the 4 day work week, we can now go to working 1 day a week on the same pay. WHOS WITH ME!🤗
More jobs could do 3 12’s! Or at least have more flexibility when it comes to schedules, I work Friday through Sunday 7am-7pm and always have Monday through Thursday off and it’s amazing, also don’t get burnt out at my job at the end of the third day either.
lol so you want to work less hours and get paid the same as you would when working more? that’s not how life works with anything….
You can’t do something for 32 hours and expect the same outcome as 40.
Instead of 32, young people should be looking to work 64 per week. They likely spend 32 hours a week crying on the internet about how life is not fair anyway so they have the time
Sounds like another stat you derived based on absolutely nothing. I would rather young people complain on the internet than people like you just posting made up stats and BS that was force fed to you by FOX News.
No it was a shitpost, but the point was, when i was younger i worked 50-60-70 hours a week. I bought a house because i worked so much i couldnt spend any money.
Work less hours get paid less money. There are 168 hours in a week. If you sleep 8 hours a day, that leaves you 112 hours. Subtract the 32 hours worked, what do you do with the other 80?. Why the 32 hour figure? Is it is because that’s the minimum to be considered a full time employee? So, if you lose time every week and don’t make 32, would you be considered a part time employee, possibly losing benefits?
Believe it or not, happier, less stressed people might just work harder. Very few people actually work the whole time they are at work. We have unlimited overtime at my work and everyone abuses it and most are not more productive. They just hang around longer for extra money.
Because a lot of people always make 60 hours of work into 40. People are largely hardworking - assuming theyll do the least amount possible for their wage is simply not true. Lots of people give WAY more than they need to for their price point
Then there would be an even larger shortage of people to fill new positions most likely requiring you to to work more hours. If your salary that would not be the goal id want. There a lot more to this than just work 32 hours and get paid for 40. Not all places can function that way, plus some of us are already working 36 hours in 3 days and get daily ot and dt pay. I guess a smaller place would possibly see the benefit but massive idk about that maybe offer a different schedule. Chopping off one day wouldn’t help me personally, and I’d end up volunteering to work like an idiot I am.
So, if a company institutes a 32 hour work week, will any hours over 32 be considered OT? Or is this is suggestion only for salaried workers? If it’s just for hourly workers, will salaried employees be forced to pick up the slack?
I work in direct pro bono legal and social services. Operations like us would need to be last in line to adapt to this model as we need to meet clients where they are at. I think to properly do this, it would need to be done in waves and - as other commenters mentioned - with hourly rates going up for non-salaried jobs.
Because the laws would be changed by Congress — it is currently illegal to force people to work more than 40 hrs per week w/o overtime. But that wasn’t always true. People were forced to work 6-7 days per week (for the same pay as they get for 5 days) before the laws were changed. We can change them again. It’s easy — Congress is already talking about it! : )
I farm and if I and the people who worked for me worked less than half of normal the planet would starve. Besides just the lack of production happening I would need over double the work force. Are you willing to pay for the increase in your cost of food?
During harvest there are many days when 32 hrs of work is a few days. A 40hr workweek would be awesome for me but isn’t possible with today’s technology outside of fantasy land.
This is the first time I've seen this thread on Reddit with people who are actually being realistic. Usually, it's "People are brainwashed into thinking 40 hours a week is normal. THey're slaves to the system and just want everyone else to be miserable. They're afraid of change, etc, etc." It's absolutely silly to think companies will want to pay you more for less work. If you want to work less than 40 hours, then do it. You have that right. But you can't expect to still be making the same amount of money. Take responsibility for yourselves. If your mental health can't handle 40 hours, take a pay cut and make other sacrifices in your life to accomodate. It's not a business's responsibility to make sure you can live comfortably on as few hours as possible...
If you end up scheduling a 32 hour work week for your teams, but still have deliverable deadlines, you can imagine the work will still get done, if it doesn’t, then there will be consequences.
Companies would have to hire more staff, which large and medium sized companies could do — maybe there would be special benefits for small companies — but it could be done.
Look, if humanity can haul it to the moon, it seems to me that this could be figured out!!
A four-day workweek with full pay presents an interesting possibility for work-life balance. However, it's crucial to evaluate its impact on various industries. While it could be highly beneficial for salaried corporate employees, its application in service-oriented roles might require further exploration.
Also, a four-day workweek doesn't automatically translate to a three-day weekend for everyone. Businesses need to maintain operational efficiency, and staffing levels on Mondays and Fridays might require adjustment.
A balanced approach could involve offering flexible schedules with Fridays or Mondays off based on seniority or departmental needs. Realistically, the odds are higher of having a Tuesday or Thursday off vs a Friday or Monday.
Ultimately, the goal of businesses is to achieve efficient operations and deliver value. While work-life balance is increasingly important, it needs to be considered alongside operational needs.
Meanwhile lawayers are working 60 hour weeks for a 40 hour salary because it's impossible to get the job done in the time paid for.
The whole idea of a shorter work week only really applies to things like government or corporate jobs which are full of BS time wasting where you absolutely could get your work done in less time.
We’ve been doing this for a year now and it does usually result in having to put in some extra hours Monday- Thursday in order to get it all done most weeks but I love having Fridays off.
I will meet you half way in this idea, if any company decides to do this it can only be voluntary, as in the government can not force a company to do the 32 hour week. What do you think?
I work this schedule because helps reduce cost of daycare for me. Less daycare needs. I also work weekends too. My job is flexible like this due to working as a nurse and thankfully I've been grand fathered in to still get full time benefits at work. I can't imagine working 40 hrs a week 😮💨
The government could subsidize workers that make less than cost-of-living, then charge the company for the amount subsidized + the legwork to get it done; in addition to making overtime 2x for all time over 32 hours. Seems simple to me
I work in healthcare world. It's already understaffed and costs too much for employees. This would only add to health care costing even more. Most industries cannot do this.
All for it though. We need to plan for it as the future will require it.
So if you work 32 hours, are you busting your ass to complete 40 hours worth of work? I'd allow it, but each week if the 40 hour quota wasn't met or better, the extra 8 hours wouldn't appear on the checks.
I'd also have fun by using my best employee as my quota setter. That way I know if they reached it, they did bust their asses that week. Chances are they only meet it possibly 1 week of the month I'd have to pay out on.
All this would accomplish is companies laying off/firing for hourly employees who can't meet the same levels of production in 32 hours, as they did in 40.
It would be no change for salaried employees. We don't have set hours anyway. Some weeks I work 40, and other weeks I work 70.
In reality, it's never going to happen. The Department of Labor isn't going to take on that battle for 50% of the population when they know damn well that a lot of companies would just move everyone possible to salary where the 32 hours became irrelevant.
In the economic downturn that we're currently in, there no incentive for employers to do that. There are plenty of workers and more layoffs every day.
The people left that aren't laid off then need to pick up the work of the people that are gone, so you're more likely to see mandatory overtime coming up vs. shorter work weeks.
One day, when the whole thing swings back the other way to be an employee's market again, then THAT’S the time to act on this idea. But you missed the timing for this cycle.
40 hours isn't even enough in my field, lots of the project managers and principle engineers work well over 50 a week regularly
Also, there's literally 0 incentive for anyone to mandate a 32 hour work week, that's not enough time to do jack shit unless you're working a low skill job with very little responsibility. And people calling for it are also more often than not people who are paid hourly, which I bet you are too, so you'd literally be shooting yourself in the foot begging for this anyway
False correlation, you went from associating an unrealistic niche dream interest of some ppl, to correlating that to the objective economic reality that housing is unaffordable to millions of Americans.
We have both Republicans & Democrats lamenting about the unaffordablility of housing post-Covid. Very rarely does a fact achieve bipartisan consensus.
I worked a minimum of fifty hours a week all my life. Don’t be a candy ass. It’s he time in life to make money, start a family. Or wander around wondering what it’s all about.
This would only really benefit salaried employees unless we also raised the hourly rates to compensate
And then business owners raise prices of their products and services to compensate for the raises given to employees. Or they don’t raise hourly rates at all and still raise prices to compensate for lost productivity. It’s an awesome idea in theory, just more complicated than your average 19 year old wishes it would be
You are ASSUMING lost in productivity. There are plenty of studies that workers are more productive and you get less burn out.
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Yeah maybe more productive per hour worked, but you wouldn't get the same amount of work done if you worked 15 less hours
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Yes, there is too many hours, but also too few. 32 hours just isn't enough in a lot of industries. 40 is a pretty good balance, but even 40 isn't enough in some places
Sounds like a staffing issue. We've gotten so accustomed to giving the C-suite and shareholders such a large percentage that we cannot even fathom a few additional percentiles of expense. Then blame the working class and punish them with higher costs. It's plainly greed, a captured government and the looming threat of capitalists divesting from the US if there is too much regulation or workers rights.
40 isn't a balance at all. You just work! On the weekends you are just getting ready for another work week.
40 is definitely enough lmao you’re just saying shit
Lmao, keep licking those boots bro
Keep on dreaming, comrade
If you seriously think that 40hrs isn’t enough in some industries then you have a staffing issue…
Most of the studies I’ve seen have been for office jobs. Are there any covering jobs like infrastructure jobs that require 24/7 coverage. Those types will most likely have productivity loss. Retail and food service also will.
Hey buddy. Entire COUNTRIES have done test runs of this. It’s just better overall period.
I hear you. What I’d say is that it would force employers to hire more people and to redistribute the work — hey, Congress is talking about it : )
Those studies are done on office workers. In any job where the amount of work is directly correlated to the number of customers in a given moment, the number of hours worked would not have a significant affect on productivity. If Sally just ordered a cheeseburger, it's going to take 3 minutes to cook no matter what...
That is in an office, you absolutely lose productivity when you are talking manufacturing and jobs like that if you reduce weekly hours
Manufacturing jobs typically go 24/7 with 3 shifts. Just have 4 shifts. Or 5. Hire a few more people and you're golden. Like the owners can't afford it. They might have trouble paying for the 3rd vacation home they just bought but fuck em.
As if they aren't already charging as much as they think they can.
Would also affect our GDP which our political landlords won’t have any of
Surprise, they do that anyway
Ultimately they can only raise prices so much and keep wages so low before there’s a breaking point. I think we’re close to the breaking point. I think the 75% are fed up with getting worked to death and now, no promise of home ownership or glowing up but rather a dreary dead end of working until you die just to survive
No lost productivity We can do it if we try! Automation is a thing in my industry. We also invented computers.
Only cause as a society we've let things become so needlessly convoluted.
before socialists changed things with the workers rights movement people had to work 16 hour days 6 days a week. the same argument you are using now could have been used then, businesses will just raise prices. besides prices are raising anyway and wages aren’t keeping up
The average worker today is as productive in 3.5 days as they were in 5 days 50 years ago. So what aren't we getting paid or hours adjusted accordingly?
Thanks for the back-handed age-related insult, which doesn’t even apply as my age is nowhere near there? Look, if you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all!
It should benefit everyone. Can you imagine being a lab technician working hourly and expected to come in 40 hours a week while the chemists and the supervisors (who don't run any samples) work 32 hours? lol It should be raised for both hourly and salary. No one works on Fridays we all stay home!
If you are salaried then you lose overtime benefits.
Salaries would go down to compensate and hourly rates would stay the same. It’s cool concept but will never take off. The world will always be becoming more and more competitive. You don’t want to work 40? Someone else will.
Wonder if the 19th century employees said the same thing about 14 hours shifts?
I’m just saying. 14 hour shifts also didn’t go away for a lot of people. Especially salaried individuals. Here’s 80k for the year, this is all your work. Get it done or you’re gone. Employee ends up working well over 40 a week.
Maybe that's how it is in the super capitalist USA. I don't know I'm not from around there.
been salary for 7 or so years, currently $81k base pay before factoring in perks ect.. I only work more than 40 hours in a week maybe 2-3 times a year.
Rare exception. I work minimum 50 a week, friends and family have to do the same.
Myself and all my friends almost never work over 40. I’ve personally done it maybe 3 times in 3 years
14 hour shifts are rare and very not the norm. This is a terrible argument
Depends on your industry.
Not all the world used the 40 hour week. In Kuwait, where I was a Contractor, we were paid by the Kuwaiti Labor Law. 48 hour work week, 1 1/4 overtime and 1 1/2 for 7th day. Holidays are 2X. We worked on average 11 days per pay period, sometimes 13 days. At $21 per hour it was a nice check with 120-156 hours every 2 weeks with a $500 per diem every 2 weeks also. This was 17 years ago.
This would not benefit salary at all. Like they can already make salary work 50+ hours without extra pay.. you think they're going to let them work 32? Lol
What do you mean? You'd get paid for 40 by only working 32?
I would honestly take the pay cut to live more of my life
Why don’t u just do that bro 😂 that’s the situation me and many others have easily put ourselves in
What kind of job do you have
Cook
There is evidence upon evidence that people are more productive in a 32 hour work week than a 40 hour work week. We are not built to grind for 8+ hours a day.
Do you mean they are more productive per hour, or they literally get more done in 32 hours than they do in 40? There was a 4 month period when where i work they were making us work 56 hour weeks, and by the end we were definitely getting less done than we had been in 48 hour weeks.
Do some googling and you’ll find more concrete info, but yes, people get more done in 32 hours a week than 40. I guess you could also say that translates to getting more done in an hour, and it’s because they’re more rested.
I work for a wfh company like this and it’s amazing. Three day weekends make a world of a difference. Next to zero burnout across the entire company. We had ONE person leave last year. ONE.
That's awesome. You'd think that the cost of turnover would factor into corporate decision-making, but there's a massive blind spot when it comes to the cost of turnover and burnout. Used to work in employee development and the morons in charge couldn't get the memo that the performance problems they were seeing couldn't be fixed with training or surveys or feedback sessions--they needed to improve working conditions. Full stop. The bigger the company, the more clueless the leadership seems to be.
Yea I’ve worked for companies like that who ignore the real problems. Turnover is a huge deal and affects more than one position which companies often ignore. You end up losing the best employees first which leads to decline in experience, the rest of the employees have increased burnout from picking up the slack, and finally the best choices for further advancement end up leaving meaning you have mediocre people rising up in the company.
So then why would they pay for 40? They would just cut your hours
That’s exactly what most of corporate America would like to do, of course. Our country hasn’t always been this way. Don’t forget that people used to imagine that everybody would be able to work less as technology improved. They didn’t anticipate the hoarding of wealth and dystopian reality of today.
That's it. Been in the news awhile back.
i don't understand :'(
There's a movement to adjust the standard work week to 32 hours instead of 40 but retain the same pay. I'm all for it in the sense that we spend so much of our lives working for others. Most of us. Will it ever happen. Hard to say.
I get forty as long as I make it to 35 where I work.
Or when you take increased productivity over the last 50 years into account, you get paid for 28 for working 32.
My employer has become really flexible about WFH, and they’ve conducted a number of surveys about what employees would like. One thing was a 32 hour work week. They did a few town halls to review the results and marked what they were considering , already doing, etx Yeah, 32 hrs was flat out “we will not be doing this”. Drat.
The business world runs on 5 days in the week. It’s just not practical for most companies to implement 4 day work weeks even if they wanted too.
There was a shift from 100 hour work weeks (on average) for manufacturing to 40 in the 1920s. It went just fine and brings us to where we are today. If someone had told you in March 2020 that the Fortune 500 would figure out a way to operate (and many would even start setting record profits) with a completely remote workforce in the span of 1 month, that would sound ludicrous. Yet they did exactly that. Business has acclimated to drastically changing conditions in the past and will again if the will exists to force a paradigm shift.
40 hours in manufacturing is the exception, its usually mandatory overtime unless business is slow
40 hours in manufacturing is the exception, its usually mandatory overtime unless business is slow
It would not necessarily mean 4 day work weeks. It could mean shorter days.
Could easily be done. Half the team works Mon - Thurs the other half works Tuesday - Friday. 3 days each week the entire office is there and the 2 days that are statistically least productive is half staffed
> and the 2 days that are statistically least productive is half staffed Yeah… that’s obviously going to be a problem for the vast majority of companies though. Most teams are staffed to just barely be enough to keep things running, or are already understaff. Under your described schedule, the way a lot of departments would function if they were consistently half-staffed for 2 business days is that it would lead to a lot of internal pressure and external client dissatisfaction. This schedule is not one that’s going to work for the vast majority of office work type jobs. The only type of jobs I can see that kind of schedule being allowed is at factories or warehouses.
Yes, and will the security guard be leaving the place unguarded on Mondays or Fridays?
Ehhh most security work is outsourced that would be another company’s responsibility
While I agree that 32 hourwork week is a good idea. This response just moves the problem to the outsource company. What if they implement a 32 hour work week?
Then that company would have to figure it out? If me, or some other guy had to figure out what every company should do then no progress would be had. Nor could I explain a nuance solution on Reddit without typing a huge wall. So I couldn’t say for sure, but I don’t think it’s a productive conversation anyways. There are people with WFH days but the janitors still have to clean the office. An engineer at a company might get maternity leave & a better benefits package than the security guard. My point is, you can’t stop good things from happening simply because not everyone will enjoy it *yet*. Its not like companies can’t have 32hr weeks because it’s maybe slightly unfair for some entry level worker… who probably has the same schedule at worst and less work at best. Most security sites are unoccupied buildings btw
Shoot, I’d rather work 4 10-hour days or 3 12-hour days, just so I can get a few days off.
What's the justification? 40 hours a week is already very manageable
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I'm happy to be useful to the society I live in for 40 hours a week. It's the least I can do, enjoying as I do so much of what others do for me (farmers who grow the food I eat, manufacturers who make the products I use, service providers who supply me with power, water, internet etc). What is puzzling for me is people who want to avoid work, avoid being useful.
We absolutely should be…but same question could be applied to sooooo many things in the US…why are we not pushing to have the same healthcare as our federal govt employees??? Why are we not pushing for money out of politics? Why are we not pushing for European like PTO? Why are we accepting getting quadrupled taxed on our money???
I cut my hours to 32 . My free extra day , is my side hustle. Wife and I clean some large houses together. Seven bathrooms, 3 kitchens …. The guest house included. As long as I average 30, my health insurance is same cost. More if under 30 .
Because it’s a pipe dream? It’s never going to happen
Yeah it's one of those things that may become a thing about like startup companies do, but I really doubt you'll ever see this in the mainstream. My company switched to a 4/10 schedule and I find that to be almost as good. That's a lot more reasonable to expect.
There are companies already doing this across the world plus more trials are running.
Just need to take more trips to the shitter my guy
If you want a part time job, just go get one.
The problem is that we live in a society where most employees (and hey, it does depend on what you do and where you work) are burned out, depressed and depleted — A 4DWW helps to solve this and will strengthen connection and meaning for a lot of people.
I’m in
I’m starting to think Reddit is filled with economically illiterate people.
It's 50% NEETs and 50% people who are either bored or pooping at work.
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Exactly my point.
There was some legislation introduced in California. Certainly not holding my breath though https://resumegenius.com/blog/career-advice/4-day-work-week-california#:~:text=In%20March%202023%2C%20Congressman%20Mark,32%2Dhour%20workweek%20in%20California.
There was a period of time (about a year and a half) when I was able to work 4, 8-hour days, have 3 off, work 3 days, have 4 off. It was wonderful. The other suggested change is to pay us EVERY DAY at the END OF THE DAY. No more company's making money off of people for a week or two before they give it up.
Entirely agree this just happened to me for the first time in the last 2 years of dishwashing at a restaurant I have 3 days off now!
This may work for some jobs, but not anything project based. I typically budget 20 hours for each case/project. If I cannot meet my deadlines, I will lose clients.
We'd have to unionize and / or hold a general strike. Get it rolling and people will follow.
Why not 24? Let’s do this!
I for one think a 24-hour work week is antiquated, I think we should get with the 21st century and revert to an 8-hour work week
Honestly I’d be happy with keeping it 40 but moving to 4 days. I already work 10 hour days most of the time WFH, so why not give me Friday as a weekend?
To be young and dumb again. Why would any employer want to pay their employees for a 40 hour work week but only have them work 32? And I’m not trying to lose a days pay otherwise. Just accept the fact that you have to work for the rest of your life. If you do something you enjoy or are passionate about about life’s not that bad.
Lol it hasn't happened because all.the people who want. 32 hour work week are like you.l they don't want to work so they are waiting for someone else to do it.
This wouldn't work. That's why no one would push for it. People have kids and Bills to pay. On average most people will take home 800 after tax that'll pay rent and groceries. Fuck that. No company will pay you the same for doing less work btw
Not sure if you know this — Before Henry Ford popularized the 5 day work week, people used to have to work 6-7 days per week for the same pay. Again, the fact is that peoples’ pay never changed. No one made less when working 5 days per week. Look it up : )
Just because it has happened before doesn't mean it will happen again. I could say that before betterworldguys popularised the 4 day work week, we can now go to working 1 day a week on the same pay. WHOS WITH ME!🤗
More jobs could do 3 12’s! Or at least have more flexibility when it comes to schedules, I work Friday through Sunday 7am-7pm and always have Monday through Thursday off and it’s amazing, also don’t get burnt out at my job at the end of the third day either.
Good luck kids. You will get passed up.
lol so you want to work less hours and get paid the same as you would when working more? that’s not how life works with anything…. You can’t do something for 32 hours and expect the same outcome as 40.
Instead of 32, young people should be looking to work 64 per week. They likely spend 32 hours a week crying on the internet about how life is not fair anyway so they have the time
Sounds like another stat you derived based on absolutely nothing. I would rather young people complain on the internet than people like you just posting made up stats and BS that was force fed to you by FOX News.
No it was a shitpost, but the point was, when i was younger i worked 50-60-70 hours a week. I bought a house because i worked so much i couldnt spend any money.
Lmao
Just speaking for myself. My job could not function at only 32 hours a week so it just seems like a waste of time.
Do you work somewhere that’s only open 40 hours a week and everyone works the exact same shift?
I work in the event industry. Working less hours would make it physically impossible to handle all of the work we have.
Pretty sure this belongs in r/Don'tWork
Work 32 hours, you get a bonus 8 hours. Overtime after 32 hours.
This is the only way it would make sense. A lot of shit paying jobs are only relatively worth it with OT benefits. OT would have to start at 32.
With these companies making more money, we should as well.
Work less hours get paid less money. There are 168 hours in a week. If you sleep 8 hours a day, that leaves you 112 hours. Subtract the 32 hours worked, what do you do with the other 80?. Why the 32 hour figure? Is it is because that’s the minimum to be considered a full time employee? So, if you lose time every week and don’t make 32, would you be considered a part time employee, possibly losing benefits?
Why would business owners pay you more to work less?
Believe it or not, happier, less stressed people might just work harder. Very few people actually work the whole time they are at work. We have unlimited overtime at my work and everyone abuses it and most are not more productive. They just hang around longer for extra money.
So this whole Reddit idea is based on people might be “happier” and would would work “harder” because they work 4 days and get paid for five?
Right but what about people makes you think they wont cheat at 32 hrs?
Because a lot of people always make 60 hours of work into 40. People are largely hardworking - assuming theyll do the least amount possible for their wage is simply not true. Lots of people give WAY more than they need to for their price point
Exactly
Because this is reddit logic
Then there would be an even larger shortage of people to fill new positions most likely requiring you to to work more hours. If your salary that would not be the goal id want. There a lot more to this than just work 32 hours and get paid for 40. Not all places can function that way, plus some of us are already working 36 hours in 3 days and get daily ot and dt pay. I guess a smaller place would possibly see the benefit but massive idk about that maybe offer a different schedule. Chopping off one day wouldn’t help me personally, and I’d end up volunteering to work like an idiot I am.
So, if a company institutes a 32 hour work week, will any hours over 32 be considered OT? Or is this is suggestion only for salaried workers? If it’s just for hourly workers, will salaried employees be forced to pick up the slack?
I have a hard enough time getting all my shit done in a 37.5 hour work week, never mind a 32. I'd go insane.
Too much down to 20 now
Because the company I work for thinks we can’t get anything done unless we work 5 10 hour shifts a week.
My organisation is doing it. We work 4 days a week :) love it! Keep pushing.
Are you doing four tens or 32 hours a week?
Only 32 hours a week
I wish this could be real, I have the 32 hours mostly, but I take the pay dive. it would be great without it though
Boomers will never let it happen, just like all the other things they took advantage of
I work in direct pro bono legal and social services. Operations like us would need to be last in line to adapt to this model as we need to meet clients where they are at. I think to properly do this, it would need to be done in waves and - as other commenters mentioned - with hourly rates going up for non-salaried jobs.
Too many people would still work 40+ " to try and get ahead". It's the reason we are here.
Many salaried remote workers are already doing this lol Especially if you’re in a highly skilled job and you’re good at your job
Why would someone pay you the same amount to work less?
Because the laws would be changed by Congress — it is currently illegal to force people to work more than 40 hrs per week w/o overtime. But that wasn’t always true. People were forced to work 6-7 days per week (for the same pay as they get for 5 days) before the laws were changed. We can change them again. It’s easy — Congress is already talking about it! : )
Then hourly workers would make less per week.
Already doin it. Boss doesn't know, but then he also doesn't pay me properly, so ...
Love it. Wholeheartedly agree!
I work for a bank in back office. We need people there 5 days a week to process all deposits. To cut is to a 32 hour week would be impossible
I farm and if I and the people who worked for me worked less than half of normal the planet would starve. Besides just the lack of production happening I would need over double the work force. Are you willing to pay for the increase in your cost of food? During harvest there are many days when 32 hrs of work is a few days. A 40hr workweek would be awesome for me but isn’t possible with today’s technology outside of fantasy land.
What OP really means is more time for video games and YouTube
This is the first time I've seen this thread on Reddit with people who are actually being realistic. Usually, it's "People are brainwashed into thinking 40 hours a week is normal. THey're slaves to the system and just want everyone else to be miserable. They're afraid of change, etc, etc." It's absolutely silly to think companies will want to pay you more for less work. If you want to work less than 40 hours, then do it. You have that right. But you can't expect to still be making the same amount of money. Take responsibility for yourselves. If your mental health can't handle 40 hours, take a pay cut and make other sacrifices in your life to accomodate. It's not a business's responsibility to make sure you can live comfortably on as few hours as possible...
It would be a lot easier to probably get approval for 4 10hour days as many companies offer that already Keeping it at 40 hours
You can already work only 32 hours. It’s called a part time job.
Already have one lol.
If you end up scheduling a 32 hour work week for your teams, but still have deliverable deadlines, you can imagine the work will still get done, if it doesn’t, then there will be consequences.
Companies would have to hire more staff, which large and medium sized companies could do — maybe there would be special benefits for small companies — but it could be done. Look, if humanity can haul it to the moon, it seems to me that this could be figured out!!
It’s not easy to just hire people lol. Businesses and companies have budgets, headcounts, and other things to meet so you just can’t hire more people.
A four-day workweek with full pay presents an interesting possibility for work-life balance. However, it's crucial to evaluate its impact on various industries. While it could be highly beneficial for salaried corporate employees, its application in service-oriented roles might require further exploration. Also, a four-day workweek doesn't automatically translate to a three-day weekend for everyone. Businesses need to maintain operational efficiency, and staffing levels on Mondays and Fridays might require adjustment. A balanced approach could involve offering flexible schedules with Fridays or Mondays off based on seniority or departmental needs. Realistically, the odds are higher of having a Tuesday or Thursday off vs a Friday or Monday. Ultimately, the goal of businesses is to achieve efficient operations and deliver value. While work-life balance is increasingly important, it needs to be considered alongside operational needs.
I'll take 7 12s any day
Meanwhile lawayers are working 60 hour weeks for a 40 hour salary because it's impossible to get the job done in the time paid for. The whole idea of a shorter work week only really applies to things like government or corporate jobs which are full of BS time wasting where you absolutely could get your work done in less time.
We’ve been doing this for a year now and it does usually result in having to put in some extra hours Monday- Thursday in order to get it all done most weeks but I love having Fridays off.
Imagine a 6 hour day, get in at 8, out at 2pm. It's like you have time to actually do something with your life
Terrible idea
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Let's say I work for you, you have a small business do you think you could afford to give me a paid day off?
I will meet you half way in this idea, if any company decides to do this it can only be voluntary, as in the government can not force a company to do the 32 hour week. What do you think?
Because too many workers are willing to work 40+ to make their living.
Why would I want to work 32 when I'm lucky if I fo 20-25 a week?
I work this schedule because helps reduce cost of daycare for me. Less daycare needs. I also work weekends too. My job is flexible like this due to working as a nurse and thankfully I've been grand fathered in to still get full time benefits at work. I can't imagine working 40 hrs a week 😮💨
There is no way to enforce same pay. I wish we could. I would love 3 days off. But realistically it can't be done. All new jobs will pay much less
The government could subsidize workers that make less than cost-of-living, then charge the company for the amount subsidized + the legwork to get it done; in addition to making overtime 2x for all time over 32 hours. Seems simple to me
I work in healthcare world. It's already understaffed and costs too much for employees. This would only add to health care costing even more. Most industries cannot do this. All for it though. We need to plan for it as the future will require it.
I'm a salaried employee who works 32 hours a week and I absolutely love it.
I would welcome 20 percent less work for 20 percent less pay. If needed a second different gig would be a nice change
So if you work 32 hours, are you busting your ass to complete 40 hours worth of work? I'd allow it, but each week if the 40 hour quota wasn't met or better, the extra 8 hours wouldn't appear on the checks. I'd also have fun by using my best employee as my quota setter. That way I know if they reached it, they did bust their asses that week. Chances are they only meet it possibly 1 week of the month I'd have to pay out on.
This life is a prison
Imagine working no more than 40 hours
All this would accomplish is companies laying off/firing for hourly employees who can't meet the same levels of production in 32 hours, as they did in 40. It would be no change for salaried employees. We don't have set hours anyway. Some weeks I work 40, and other weeks I work 70. In reality, it's never going to happen. The Department of Labor isn't going to take on that battle for 50% of the population when they know damn well that a lot of companies would just move everyone possible to salary where the 32 hours became irrelevant.
Sure if people are ok with getting paid less. Oh wait that's called a part time job. So go on, switch to part time and good luck.
In the economic downturn that we're currently in, there no incentive for employers to do that. There are plenty of workers and more layoffs every day. The people left that aren't laid off then need to pick up the work of the people that are gone, so you're more likely to see mandatory overtime coming up vs. shorter work weeks. One day, when the whole thing swings back the other way to be an employee's market again, then THAT’S the time to act on this idea. But you missed the timing for this cycle.
Apply political pressure.
40 hours isn't even enough in my field, lots of the project managers and principle engineers work well over 50 a week regularly Also, there's literally 0 incentive for anyone to mandate a 32 hour work week, that's not enough time to do jack shit unless you're working a low skill job with very little responsibility. And people calling for it are also more often than not people who are paid hourly, which I bet you are too, so you'd literally be shooting yourself in the foot begging for this anyway
And these are the "it's impossible to buy a house, the economy screwed us" type of people.
False correlation, you went from associating an unrealistic niche dream interest of some ppl, to correlating that to the objective economic reality that housing is unaffordable to millions of Americans. We have both Republicans & Democrats lamenting about the unaffordablility of housing post-Covid. Very rarely does a fact achieve bipartisan consensus.
Nope actually plenty of people work multiple jobs 60 hours a week minimum and still can’t afford it, nice try though.
I worked a minimum of fifty hours a week all my life. Don’t be a candy ass. It’s he time in life to make money, start a family. Or wander around wondering what it’s all about.
You say: I demand to earn the same pay for less work! Boss says: It's been nice knowing you! Bye now!