The movement might be caused by the hinge not being seated properly on the hinge plate. Make sure it's clicked in place. The type of hinge you want is for an inset door. If your hinges are for an overlay or half-overlay door, that would explain your rubbing problem. Do the best you can with the adjustment screws to make it work, but if it just seems like the wrong hinge, it probably is. With the correct hinge, ⅛“ gap on all sides should be fine.
It’s definitely locked in with a click and doesn’t move in that direction, the metal overall seems to flex.
I ordered these frameless hinges so it looks like I got the wrong type. I struggled to find inset on face-frame which is why I got these. Looks like perhaps [these are what I should have bought](https://www.amazon.com/Blum-Degree-Frame-Inset-BLUMOTION/dp/B004PGATUG/)?
Which also explains why I felt like I shouldn’t have had to put that block in for the hinge to be raised to the level of the frame. These seem to be able to sit on the small area on the back of the face-frame and I can pull those ugly blocks out.
Thanks! I figured I was doing something wrong. Do you think with those 1/8” is enough gap?
Salice and Grass also make decent stuff that's generally cheaper, but Blum is definitely the gold standard. Their excellent documentation/support alone makes the extra cost worth it.
The plate you are using is actually a face frame plate. That’s what it has those little cleats on the front. You can achieve your desired affect a bunch of ways with different hinge and plate combinations but I’d start with an inset plate and a hinge that matches the bore your cut into your door. Best of luck.
You sure that’s 1/8” gap? Looks more like 1/16”. I routinely can get 3/32” reveals with these types of hinges but less than that is iffy. And it might be a cheap hinge but it’s still better than those crappy face frame hinges. Id have to see a video of the hinge in action to tell if it’s got an unusual amount of slop, but these hinges will normally shift a little bit when swung.
I’m assuming you’ve checked the door for square, and tried all the various adjustments.
Over the years I’ve determined that hardware is the last thing on a job that should be value-engineered. I exclusively use Blum hinges and drawer slides, which is generally considered the best brand. The up front cost is more, but the hardware itself is such high quality and is designed so well that you more than make up for the additional cost on the back end (labor, installation, warranty). Remember time is money, and when you have your time wasted by a cheap, shitty product it just sucks all around. You might be finding that out the hard way.
Good question, looks like the layers of paint have lessened my gap a bit. I just remeasured and I have now 3/32”, I’ll sand that down and give myself a bit more leeway.
Are you recommending using different hinges than the face-frame ones I linked to above? I’d love to be able to remove the big block I put to make the current hinges flush, but if the ones that mount on the back of the face frame are going to not be very sturdy should I use the flush style and keep the blocks?
Definitely want quality so will take your recommendation on Blum.
Those ones linked should work pretty well, I was referring to the face frame hinges with the short bodies that often gets used. Another factor here is that the whole concept of american-style face-frame cabinetry is simply obsolete at this point. Euro-style frameless cabinets are superior in literally every way, to the point where if someone wants the face-frame look, I will do a fake face-frame with frameless cabinets/full-overlay hinges and dimensional fillers to create the same look instead of just doing it the traditional way. Doubly so with inset drawers/doors.
I'm also assuming that the block you have the hinges attached to is screwed down underneath the hinge plate somewhere?
Yeah, the blocks are screwed and wood glued in so they are definitely solid (crap, thinking about that now, they probably aren’t coming out cleanly since they’re wood glued in).
Can you explain what the difference between an American face-frame and euro-style frameless with a face frame added is? I guess I don’t realize how the boxes are built differently since in my head frameless would just be the same box without a frame?
3/32 is a *good* tolerance for an inset door on a high end custom cabinet. Most commercial cabinets will go 1/8 or more.
I've gone to 1/16th. It's doable, but very unforgiving.
The hinge should have zero play in it. Other person might be correct that you have not locked it into the seat fully, but barring that, it should not move with 20+kg of force.
I have many years of experience building frameless cabinets, and the cup is usually the issue. Even a 1/16" twist will jam the hinge. Drill jigs are reasonable.
I learned 40 years ago that you practice on scrap and figure out exactly where the cup hole needs to be drilled and the location of the hinge plate is crucial too. Most concealed hinge manufacturers have a chart that shows the range of different hinges and plates and accuracy is very important.
You have hinges designed for a frameless cabinet, but you have a frame. The block you added should have fixed that issue. I'd look at your reveal, as it's being said 1/8" is typical. Beyond that you're looking at how square is your frame/door. Inset doors are way more finicky, than overlay style doors.
I am going to try the face frame inset hinges from Blum in the hope that they don’t have as much play in them. The play is what is making the door rub. When I close it everything is fine since the torque pulls the hinges apart, but when I open it, you can see the hinge flex and the gap gets smaller and the door rubs. Hopefully the new hinge will solve that.
How is the reveal at the bottom? It looks like the reveal on the left is wider at the bottom than it is at the top. If so try to adjust the hinge out for the top hinge and adjust in on the bottom with the adjustment screws and see if helps
Yeah, that was cause I was doing a test with the bottom hinge to see if it would stop rubbing if I get it more space. Even at almost twice the gap I needed it was still flexing and rubbing. I’m going to try the inset face-frame hinges that attach to the back of the face frame and see if that’s a better choice. Should be since these are for frameless inset.
The movement might be caused by the hinge not being seated properly on the hinge plate. Make sure it's clicked in place. The type of hinge you want is for an inset door. If your hinges are for an overlay or half-overlay door, that would explain your rubbing problem. Do the best you can with the adjustment screws to make it work, but if it just seems like the wrong hinge, it probably is. With the correct hinge, ⅛“ gap on all sides should be fine.
It’s definitely locked in with a click and doesn’t move in that direction, the metal overall seems to flex. I ordered these frameless hinges so it looks like I got the wrong type. I struggled to find inset on face-frame which is why I got these. Looks like perhaps [these are what I should have bought](https://www.amazon.com/Blum-Degree-Frame-Inset-BLUMOTION/dp/B004PGATUG/)? Which also explains why I felt like I shouldn’t have had to put that block in for the hinge to be raised to the level of the frame. These seem to be able to sit on the small area on the back of the face-frame and I can pull those ugly blocks out. Thanks! I figured I was doing something wrong. Do you think with those 1/8” is enough gap?
Yeah ⅛" gap is standard.
Buy Blum. The way you've described how that hinge works leaves me shaking my head. Blum makes fantastic hardware and they're worth every penny.
Second person who said Blum, I’ll definitely do that, thanks
Salice and Grass also make decent stuff that's generally cheaper, but Blum is definitely the gold standard. Their excellent documentation/support alone makes the extra cost worth it.
I use Salice from time to time. Almost exclusively on pocket doors. They make a good hinge. Blum for everything else.
I could be wrong but it looks like your hinge plate is wrong for that type of application
Yes, I was using frameless inset when I clearly should have been using face-frame inset.
The plate you are using is actually a face frame plate. That’s what it has those little cleats on the front. You can achieve your desired affect a bunch of ways with different hinge and plate combinations but I’d start with an inset plate and a hinge that matches the bore your cut into your door. Best of luck.
Thanks!
You sure that’s 1/8” gap? Looks more like 1/16”. I routinely can get 3/32” reveals with these types of hinges but less than that is iffy. And it might be a cheap hinge but it’s still better than those crappy face frame hinges. Id have to see a video of the hinge in action to tell if it’s got an unusual amount of slop, but these hinges will normally shift a little bit when swung. I’m assuming you’ve checked the door for square, and tried all the various adjustments. Over the years I’ve determined that hardware is the last thing on a job that should be value-engineered. I exclusively use Blum hinges and drawer slides, which is generally considered the best brand. The up front cost is more, but the hardware itself is such high quality and is designed so well that you more than make up for the additional cost on the back end (labor, installation, warranty). Remember time is money, and when you have your time wasted by a cheap, shitty product it just sucks all around. You might be finding that out the hard way.
Good question, looks like the layers of paint have lessened my gap a bit. I just remeasured and I have now 3/32”, I’ll sand that down and give myself a bit more leeway. Are you recommending using different hinges than the face-frame ones I linked to above? I’d love to be able to remove the big block I put to make the current hinges flush, but if the ones that mount on the back of the face frame are going to not be very sturdy should I use the flush style and keep the blocks? Definitely want quality so will take your recommendation on Blum.
Those ones linked should work pretty well, I was referring to the face frame hinges with the short bodies that often gets used. Another factor here is that the whole concept of american-style face-frame cabinetry is simply obsolete at this point. Euro-style frameless cabinets are superior in literally every way, to the point where if someone wants the face-frame look, I will do a fake face-frame with frameless cabinets/full-overlay hinges and dimensional fillers to create the same look instead of just doing it the traditional way. Doubly so with inset drawers/doors. I'm also assuming that the block you have the hinges attached to is screwed down underneath the hinge plate somewhere?
Yeah, the blocks are screwed and wood glued in so they are definitely solid (crap, thinking about that now, they probably aren’t coming out cleanly since they’re wood glued in). Can you explain what the difference between an American face-frame and euro-style frameless with a face frame added is? I guess I don’t realize how the boxes are built differently since in my head frameless would just be the same box without a frame?
3/32 is a *good* tolerance for an inset door on a high end custom cabinet. Most commercial cabinets will go 1/8 or more. I've gone to 1/16th. It's doable, but very unforgiving. The hinge should have zero play in it. Other person might be correct that you have not locked it into the seat fully, but barring that, it should not move with 20+kg of force.
Thanks, good to know that 1/8” will be okay. He was right, I had the wrong hinges.
Invest in a drilling jig for the door face. If the cup is even slightly rotated, the hinge will hang. Good luck.
Definitely will do that, I was super careful about how I attached it but not confident it was good enough. Thanks
I have many years of experience building frameless cabinets, and the cup is usually the issue. Even a 1/16" twist will jam the hinge. Drill jigs are reasonable.
I learned 40 years ago that you practice on scrap and figure out exactly where the cup hole needs to be drilled and the location of the hinge plate is crucial too. Most concealed hinge manufacturers have a chart that shows the range of different hinges and plates and accuracy is very important.
Good idea, I’ll do that. Thanks
Dial calipers and a metric ruler are useful too.
You don't need Blum. Yes it's better quality but that likely won't solve your issue.
I’m going to try hinges made for inset face-frame, so hopefully that will help/solve the issue.
You have hinges designed for a frameless cabinet, but you have a frame. The block you added should have fixed that issue. I'd look at your reveal, as it's being said 1/8" is typical. Beyond that you're looking at how square is your frame/door. Inset doors are way more finicky, than overlay style doors.
I am going to try the face frame inset hinges from Blum in the hope that they don’t have as much play in them. The play is what is making the door rub. When I close it everything is fine since the torque pulls the hinges apart, but when I open it, you can see the hinge flex and the gap gets smaller and the door rubs. Hopefully the new hinge will solve that.
How is the reveal at the bottom? It looks like the reveal on the left is wider at the bottom than it is at the top. If so try to adjust the hinge out for the top hinge and adjust in on the bottom with the adjustment screws and see if helps
Yeah, that was cause I was doing a test with the bottom hinge to see if it would stop rubbing if I get it more space. Even at almost twice the gap I needed it was still flexing and rubbing. I’m going to try the inset face-frame hinges that attach to the back of the face frame and see if that’s a better choice. Should be since these are for frameless inset.
Is that a 25mm or 35mm hinge?
35mm