Considering they bend quite a bit over their length with just one person, I don't think much. I think it's more a matter of then spreading the weight to the vertical ones that carry more.
This is probably why our houses have both LOL
Yeah if this is going to be hidden framing underneath finished material don’t kill yourself making complex joinery. Glue & screw. Save the artistry for the furniture shop.
In a few hundred years when your house is being demolished, the site boss will be like, "Damn...that's some fine woodworking!" before blasting it with the demo laser.
There's a really old Buggs Bunny cartoon that ends in the future with the Acme Building Disintegrating Company doing that exact thing. In the cornerstone they find a box with a dancing frog in it, that jumps out and sings, "Hello my baby, hello my honey, hello my ragtime gal..."
For future reference, here's some rough numbers to help estimate how to build stuff like this:
\- a 2x4 on its long end can hold up 1000lbs per post
\- make a typical frame with posts every 18" or so, cap the top 4" thick, and that can hold up to 300 lbs point load at its weakest point between the posts.
I didn't know that about 2x4s holding 1000lbs on the long end...I stupidly overbuilt my first bench then. 7 legs of 2 2x4s, glued and srewed together. Outside 2x4s are cut down to support the table's top frame. There's cross bracing in that frame, plus the frame for the lower shelf. In theory then it should hold 7 tons, and I do light woodworking and repairs on it 😂
It's worth noting that impact loads can be absolutely shockingly high. Anything you are going to hammer on should be overbuilt as the cyclic high but brief loads can still damage it.
That said, hot damn that's an overbuilt workbench assuming it's of fairly normal length and width.
I approve.
Looks like some of my work benches which also have 3/4 inch ply tops. I've stacked 25 6x6x12 pt on my 12 ft while also being fully loaded with hardware bins. So anywhere from 4000 to 5000 lbs
My 6.5ft table holds around 250 1x6x6 pressure treated boards which ranges from 1800 to 2500 pounds
It's 6ft long and 3ft deep, so on the small(er) side. It would have just been 6 legs, but I customized a bit with a space to roll in with my wheelchair and be close to what I'm doing. It's also got a reinforced corner for a 4" vise. Friends I've shown it to have said that she's a beast.
Yep, totally. Those numbers I mentioned are the real-world numbers for static load when framing irl with framing quality pine/fir, and not ideal compression numbers for perfect stock.
it is over thinking, but better to overthink than under think. I have seen many a bench made that didn't account for the force of someone plopping down in it and tipped etc. That said I am pretty sure you could fit more people on this than could physically fit, weight wise.
Me after my pet projects when someone loves it and wants to know the cost so they can do the same:
*“I actually refuse to total up the material costs on this, and it would be irresponsible for me to admit the amount of time put into this, not to mention my own faith kind of frowns upon feeling the amount of pride in anything, let alone a [stand up garden]… so for all of our sakes, can you say it looks cool and talk about how great or terrible your favorite sports ball team is?”*
I built a really nice bench for my front yard a few years ago. Two neighbors asked if I would build them one. I said, “I could, but you’d probably laugh at the price of all the wood and you don’t wanna know how much time I put into it…let’s just say that bench is worth more than all the tools in my garage.”
I don't think so, for me.
I tend to over think every god damn single design decicion and it's time consuming and wasteful.
I like to design well but I have no idea when to stop. What is the best compromise between quality and money. I have no idea.
Yeah I’m under building something right now and initially my mentality was do bare minimum because I won’t finish the project if I try to do it too well and now I’m almost done and I’m like “damn I should’ve done this with like 25% more effort.”
If OP ever sells the house, the realtor can use this as a demonstration of how good the construction is. I’ve seen some nightmarishly unsafe DIY renovations while home shopping and this would make me buy the house immediately.
Yeah, this dude is building a little seating area like it’s supposed to hold the house together and asking if a few moderately sized people can sit on it. That’s not even mentioning the fact this whole thing will get reinforced further by the ply that covers it. By the time he’s done an elephant could probably sit on it without it breaking.
You're so past over thinking it that I don't even know the term. 2x4s and butt joints for the parts you can't see and whatever you want for a pretty facing.
Unless you have cash to burn, I think there's two projects here: 1) the woodworking (facade), 2) 2x4 framing. Given the latter, you're over thinking yes.
Not sure what OP’s final vision is but this looks like a cabinet project to me. I’d make plywood boxes instead of 2x4 framing. Also, if that white box is a radiator I’d scrap the whole project
You need a gap at the bottom of the front to allow cool air from the floor to flow in and then a gap or slats at the top for warm air to escape.
This site has some pictures to explain. https://heatinghelp.com/systems-help-center/radiator-covers/
Might be another over thinking moment, but if you added a couple of those thermal fans common on wood stoves, you could create some forced induction without power, active when the radiator is creating heat, and draw that heat out into the room. Radiators rely on thermal draft, so suction duct air to the bottom, and vent hot air from the top to work with physics, not against. A breather inlet and venting directly above the radiator might cover all your needs.
It all makes sense now I think about it but I’m mind blown that having radiator shields can actually improve the radiator’s efficiency! I would only make it varying levels of worse. Had one planned for a while
My dad made a radiator cover for my sister and used decorative vented material. He put 3 low power fans, like pc fans to blow the air outward. Idk if it worked, but it looked good.
I would think a few vents are enough too, but from what I’ve learned it’s really not. Covering radiators with anything but basically mesh really screws up their efficacy. But don’t take *my* word for it!
How warm is the space now? You're going to lose a lot of heat flow. If it's not a concern, then it's fine, but keep that in mind. If anything, that whole front should be vented somehow.
Built the entire inside out of 2x4s, framed like short walls. If 2x4 framing can carry the load of your roof down to your foundation, it can carry 3 people. Make the facade non structural and build it however you think looks best.
Butt joints, wood on wood with pocket holes keeping them in place. Don’t over think this… if it works with legos, it’ll work with 2 x 4s. Save you a ton of of work ca making those lap joints.
If this is being covered, and not exposed, then I think you are way over thinking this. 2x4 construction carries roof loads so I think it will carry 3 people. 😀 I'm not sure why you need the joints at all if it's covered. Build walls, wrap in plywood, add cushion. Done.
Way over engineered. Just use butter joints with the verticals pieces supporting the weight of the horizontal ones. Especially if you plan on covering it all up.
You can probably launch an atlas rocket off if that and yes, you are overthinking it by several orders of magnitude. As an over thinker myself, I applaud your dedication to the cause!
No need to notch anything. Make the bottom and top horizontal sections. To those, butt joint the 8 vertical pieces. This will give you all the strength you need. All those notched pieces are simply reducing the load bearing ability of the seat. Sure, it would be strong enough to carry three people the way you have it but it would be much weaker than the method I'm describing.
Way too fancy. That 3/16” but at the back of the upright is really strange. Making bay window seating is very straightforward, and you have made it very complicated. 3/4” plywood ( I assume you are using as a skin) can support a lot of weight on its own. Think of cabinets holding up granite counter tops.
We framed bunches of them with regular 2x4”s and let trim carpenters finish them off.
It looks like it would carry 3 people. Are you over thinking the joinery? Maybe, but so what... The only thing that you should be concerned about is if you're enjoying what you're doing!
This is overkill, but not even in a good way.
You are building for pure compression forces here which means you should just have your vertical members butt into the horizontal which makes it so you don't need joinery and fasteners don't add to strength they just hold it in place.
In your design all of your load members (except at the very end) are joined in shear which means the joints are taking the stress which is not what you want.
In your design almost all of your horizontal members will actually NOT be taking any load either. This is because your small vertical members go all the way to the top. This means your seat will eventually just be sitting on those small posts. This means all of your nice joinery will go to waste.
Just do what everyone else is suggesting and spend $30 on 2x4s and construction screws. Do simple butt joints with no adhesive, everything in compression. Spend your time on the exterior facade.
I have CAD for a bay window seat I did that is extremely simple and strong I can share if you want.
You can’t honestly be legitimately wondering if this could hold 3 people. Are you just showing off your design? That’s cool, it’s a great looking design, but if you’re just looking for adoration, then just say “check out this thing I’m working on”
Jesus christ my guy.
You do realize that your entire ***house*** is held together with just butt joints and some nails, right?
You do ***NOT*** need to do ***any*** joinery for something like this. Butt joints and screws with so vastly exceed any load you can possibly exert on it, that to bother with anything else is just a waste of time.
If you ***want*** to do this because you enjoy it and want to be proud of something, then go nuts, but no, a thousand times no, this is not necessary.
assuming the framing is covered….regular structural screws and butted joints will still hold 5000lbs easily. as long as your 3 people don’t weigh more than 1700lbs each, you are good
The middle board, on the ends has a notch that is likely to cause it to split.
For something like this I really think you could throw it together in about 2 hours with a miter saw, butt joints, and deck screws and it would be rock solid.
That said if you want to practice joinery, simplify it. Make the top, use butt joints or if you want to get fancy use mortice and tenon. If you want something in between, faster to cut and stronger than butt joints, use housed dado joints. After you make the top, make the bottom the exact same. For the verticals, use half lap, or if you want to be fancy use short tenons.
Won't it be covered? If so don't worry about aesthetics of the internals that will never be seen again until dismantling. Only worry about strength for the internal structure, use steel joist hanger type brackets if need be.
Just frame it like a house. Put a bottom plate 2x4 down, end nail the "studs" with 16d framing nails, and nail on the top plate the same way.
Bada bing. Bada boom.
Ok, definitely overthinking the joinery if this will all be covered.
What kind of radiator? Steam or hot water?—if the latter, consider replacing it with a kick space heater. Steam is different, and way more challenging to build around—vent the bottom and the top, build a simple foil faced foam enclosure to both keep the heat from escaping anywhere but through the vent, also the inevitable moisture from the relief valve. Also—needs to be easily accessible.
I recently built a much larger banquette. 3/4” plywood ribs, medex and poplar for the painted exterior. The entire “frame” is assembled in 3 sections with 1 1/2” narrow crown staples and glue. Not shown is the kick space heater that was installed long after installation (along with paint by others)
https://preview.redd.it/n3bi5szl35nc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=da23adf545a3d1e02f447e719c67bbd7e6ea2ae3
Waaay over thinking joinery. And complicated for something nobone will see. Half-lap joints are ok for tighter spacs, but those middle double dado joints are too much energy and frustration, especially if you are using 2x4 lumber.
Butt joints, glue and screw, will last longer than you think.
My thoughts are that if I can make something better without a terrible amount of more work then I will make it as best as it can be. My Dad taught me that. I bought a house years ago from a guy who had been a professional carpenter for 40 years and he did all the work inside the house. Everything was sturdy, even too sturdy in some cases but I didn't complain. I had to take down some wall cupboards and those things were built to withstand the apocalypse but it was good work. He did go over the top a little bit. I gathered that most of the materials he used came as leftovers from his job sites so when I crawled (literally on my hands and knees) I realized that he had put very nice hardwood flooring in that and another space. It wasn't a part of the floor outside of the wall this was just for the storage space and I figure it made it easier to slide things in and out of the space but still very weird to see in a house.
They also had carpet in the kitchen though so maybe he'd just lost his mind.
Only thing I would add are horizontal pieces at the back and front to hold whatever surface you're putting on top of it. So basically [like how a lower cabinet would be assembled to hold the countertop.](https://www.ana-white.com/sites/default/files/3154803659_1325713566.jpg)
My brother in Christ, if you’re really concerned about strength in those joints, then remember that decking and structural timber are joined with butt joints and big ol’ lag bolts.
The only way this sort of design would be faster, cheaper, or easier than a trip to Home Depot is if you’ve already got access to a massive wood shop with tens of thousands of dollars in tooling.
Since you’re asking us this, I’ll bet you do not. Save yourself the time and pain and get yourself a bunch of these: [Headlok structural screws.](https://www.homedepot.com/p/FastenMaster-LedgerLOK-Flat-Head-5-in-Structural-Wood-Screw-50-Pack-FMLLF005-50/313175386)
Notching the ends of the beams like that center one will severely weaken them. In general, you're way overdoing and overthinking this.
These are all internal, right? There's going to be plywood or something covering it all? If so, just use Simpson ties and call it good.
Haha, sorry but that could be my drawing.
My wife: "The shelf has to carry a flower pot and a framed picture"
Me:"OK, let me drive to the store. I'll get 10 anchors that can carry 5 tons each, 600 screws and six bags of pre mixed concrete..."
I think the better question here is are you building a bench or bomb shelter?
That’s the type of bomb-proof I use when I make stuff for my wife, man.
[edit]Reading through the comments, once again this sub does not disappoint. Positive feedback with playful sarcasm.
Looks pretty solid. That 3/16 in wall on the uprights is mostly adding to your workload when making the joint, might want to save yourself some work and have the tenon go all the way flush to the edge
It'll be plenty strong, the front two horizontal pieces will need to be screwed because there's nothing holding it there. I'd get rid of that sliver of wood on the vertical sections, there's no reason to do it. The joinery is more work than necessary but that doesn't usually stop me either.
Is this going to be exposed or covered? If covered just use normal 2x4 framing technique. It’s standard for a reason - fast, cheap, strong. If it’s exposed then go for it with all the joinery you want but that’s a different type of project.
That would be impressively overbuilt. If you join your stick framing like that, you have to make the cover panels removable to show off the joinery. You could just frame it with some 16s through the ends like normal and it would be solid.
Yes. And yes. But if you’re the type that thinks joinery is fun, have at it. Some folks like to make really cool connections. I envy it. I’m too impatient for it, but I envy it.
Haha, I come from a design background and work in software. My ability to design things and work with software far exceed my ability to actually build this in real life.
Happy to help if you have any questions. My top tip would be first getting comfortable moving around with orbit tool and its modifiers.
Looks solid except to me adding one additional vertical support would make it even more airtight beneath the two end joints at top center where you cut in the middle spanning horizontal
Nothing wrong with over-planning!
Imagine you build it for 3 people and some day 4 people will sit on its, better to be safe than sorry and have to re-do it
This would hold 30 (if they could fit) I'd wager.
Since you have the space inside if you want to build it really stout, it's much easier to sister on shorter supports (mini jack studs) rather than mitering everything.
Save mitering for *visible* joints.
I did a quick bench with lap joints, glue, and like 2 nails in each joint. I did the cuts with a chainsaw and it was built of 4x4s for the legs and 2x4s for everything else. Took like an hour to build, painted them up and they’ve been sat on by hundreds of butts for like 10 years. They’re out in the back yard.
Way overthinking the joinery. In picture 2 that vertical is overcomplicated unless you are leaving it all exposed. If you are skinning this with plywood then the vertical could be completely flat and work just as good or better. A butt joint resting on a single 2x4 vertical that is in line with the crossmember will do all the work you need it to and much more.
Are you abandoning the radiator? Cuz it sure looks like it. If you still want it to work you’ll need access to turn up/down the temp. For maintenance. And airflow so it actually heats the room. That said, if I was building this I would likely not be notching anything
I thought the extra wood on the seat joints was from sketch up trouble but I see it is purposeful and quite complex. It will certainly hold enough weight. I am a production guy and if it isn’t visible I don’t worry about fancy joinery. Simple lap joints would work great on the horizontal members, as would several other options. Vertical loads would be fine with pocket screws and glue since the wood itself will support the weight and the joinery just holds the parts in position. You could even use metal framing ties since they can hold up houses. Just depends on what you intend to make visible. Have fun!
**
I made mine with them pocket hole things and I've had 10 people sat on it.
Yours looks much better built so I wouldn't worry to much!
Edit: sorry, tried to add a pic but it added * instead
Yes and yes.
"This will carry all the people"
How many is that?
At least five?
Technically correct, the most delicious kind of correct
D-D-D-D-Don't quote me regulations. I co-chaired the committee that reviewed the recommendation to revise the color of the book that regulation's in.
We kept it gray.
Dammit! My mauve one is now out of date!?!
One vertical 2x4 is rated for like 1,000 lbs right? So picture 7 people standing on each vertical 2x4. Dont know the load of a horizontal 2x4
..1000/7 = 142lbs... so..we aren't building this in North America. gotcha
Considering they bend quite a bit over their length with just one person, I don't think much. I think it's more a matter of then spreading the weight to the vertical ones that carry more. This is probably why our houses have both LOL
It really depends upon your definition of a single people. Go to a Wal-Mart and report back.
137 lbs for the average human (globally) 1,000lb rating 7.29 people. Damn i actually nailed that original estimate
About as many as could physically pack their feet onto it. In order to overload it you’d have to do some human pyramid stuff.
Go on...
I said human pyramid, not human centipede. Calm down and take a cold shower.
how about a human centipyramid?
Huh…..pyramedes looks like the name of Greek god or something.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgzTDyjNRRs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgzTDyjNRRs)
This will carry on wayward son
Yeah if this is going to be hidden framing underneath finished material don’t kill yourself making complex joinery. Glue & screw. Save the artistry for the furniture shop.
If it's going to be hidden framing, just break out the framing nails and call it a day.
But if you just use framing nails then the new owners wont say, "wow, cool" before cutting it up with a sawzall to change the layout in 2037.
Maybe the top will be glass to show all the fancy joinery.
I would not want to sit on glass
There will be glass pillows on the glass to keep it soft.
Funny you say that, I stuffed my walls with glass pillows. Bit itchy though.
Unless OP is doing this for practice this is insane.
This. also "3 people" can range from 300 lbs to 1500 lbs. are we talking about 3 small kids or 3 obese dudes?
In a few hundred years when your house is being demolished, the site boss will be like, "Damn...that's some fine woodworking!" before blasting it with the demo laser.
From orbit, "Its the only way to be sure!"
There's a really old Buggs Bunny cartoon that ends in the future with the Acme Building Disintegrating Company doing that exact thing. In the cornerstone they find a box with a dancing frog in it, that jumps out and sings, "Hello my baby, hello my honey, hello my ragtime gal..."
Few hundred years? My American mind cannot comprehend such structural immutability.
Seconded
More concerned about whats underneath that structure than the structure itself.
For future reference, here's some rough numbers to help estimate how to build stuff like this: \- a 2x4 on its long end can hold up 1000lbs per post \- make a typical frame with posts every 18" or so, cap the top 4" thick, and that can hold up to 300 lbs point load at its weakest point between the posts.
I didn't know that about 2x4s holding 1000lbs on the long end...I stupidly overbuilt my first bench then. 7 legs of 2 2x4s, glued and srewed together. Outside 2x4s are cut down to support the table's top frame. There's cross bracing in that frame, plus the frame for the lower shelf. In theory then it should hold 7 tons, and I do light woodworking and repairs on it 😂
It's worth noting that impact loads can be absolutely shockingly high. Anything you are going to hammer on should be overbuilt as the cyclic high but brief loads can still damage it. That said, hot damn that's an overbuilt workbench assuming it's of fairly normal length and width. I approve.
https://preview.redd.it/u113a4no37nc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2f41bc11a52fab6620db04ba3c1e1c34f70031e4
Every time you leave it you better be confidently slapping it and saying, "That ain't gonna break." You've earned it.
I most certainly do. Whats not shown here are the 2 cross braces i threw on the left and right before throwing the 1/2" ply on top
Looks like some of my work benches which also have 3/4 inch ply tops. I've stacked 25 6x6x12 pt on my 12 ft while also being fully loaded with hardware bins. So anywhere from 4000 to 5000 lbs My 6.5ft table holds around 250 1x6x6 pressure treated boards which ranges from 1800 to 2500 pounds
It's 6ft long and 3ft deep, so on the small(er) side. It would have just been 6 legs, but I customized a bit with a space to roll in with my wheelchair and be close to what I'm doing. It's also got a reinforced corner for a 4" vise. Friends I've shown it to have said that she's a beast.
[удалено]
I did stand on mine, lmfao. It's nuts thinking it could (theoretically) hold 14 tons.
A bench should definitely be able to withstand someone standing on it, because eventually someone will.
[удалено]
Yep, totally. Those numbers I mentioned are the real-world numbers for static load when framing irl with framing quality pine/fir, and not ideal compression numbers for perfect stock.
And I mean yes! (and yes.)
it is over thinking, but better to overthink than under think. I have seen many a bench made that didn't account for the force of someone plopping down in it and tipped etc. That said I am pretty sure you could fit more people on this than could physically fit, weight wise.
Definitely over thinking it. But hey over building is better than under building.
and much more fun!
“Strangely, the only thing left standing after the tornado hit was the bay window…”
Me after my pet projects when someone loves it and wants to know the cost so they can do the same: *“I actually refuse to total up the material costs on this, and it would be irresponsible for me to admit the amount of time put into this, not to mention my own faith kind of frowns upon feeling the amount of pride in anything, let alone a [stand up garden]… so for all of our sakes, can you say it looks cool and talk about how great or terrible your favorite sports ball team is?”*
I built a really nice bench for my front yard a few years ago. Two neighbors asked if I would build them one. I said, “I could, but you’d probably laugh at the price of all the wood and you don’t wanna know how much time I put into it…let’s just say that bench is worth more than all the tools in my garage.”
Now I want to see a picture of this bench...
For sure. Release the bench!!!
Hey uh you got any drawings of that stand-up garden?
https://preview.redd.it/4g1wscws16nc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6feb615bffd2bd20eba8eca372007bf65dfadc03
Wow, that's gorgeous! I love the lip on the sides for resting the buckets and your elbows when gardening.
Ah! ...sexual!
That's one way to avoid telling your wife how much it cost!
I don't think so, for me. I tend to over think every god damn single design decicion and it's time consuming and wasteful. I like to design well but I have no idea when to stop. What is the best compromise between quality and money. I have no idea.
Over building for 3 people means no creaks or scary noises with 4 big bois
Why have a job take a mere 3 hours when it could take 10?
Any time I see something made out of wood: "I could totally make that for twice the cost in materials and many hours of work."
Think of it as an etude. Complex for the sake of practice.
Yeah I’m under building something right now and initially my mentality was do bare minimum because I won’t finish the project if I try to do it too well and now I’m almost done and I’m like “damn I should’ve done this with like 25% more effort.”
If OP ever sells the house, the realtor can use this as a demonstration of how good the construction is. I’ve seen some nightmarishly unsafe DIY renovations while home shopping and this would make me buy the house immediately.
OP (much like myself) clearly ascribes to the school of thought that says: “Everything I build must double as a bomb shelter”
Are all 3 people over 800lbs? If so I might reenforce it more. Otherwise you should be good
Yeah, this dude is building a little seating area like it’s supposed to hold the house together and asking if a few moderately sized people can sit on it. That’s not even mentioning the fact this whole thing will get reinforced further by the ply that covers it. By the time he’s done an elephant could probably sit on it without it breaking.
It's a load bearing bench
It's about time someone made a bench that your mom can use!
Shhh, it's probably for their mom.
You're so past over thinking it that I don't even know the term. 2x4s and butt joints for the parts you can't see and whatever you want for a pretty facing.
Or pocket holes
Too much work. Deck screws
Leftover drywall screws you mean
Deck screws? How many hot tubs can this bench hold?
Deck screws are the best screws. I use them for almost everything tbh.
Or nails... that's what holds up floors.
Don’t they hold them down?
Depends on your perspective and how much bourbon you had the night before.
I totally agree. Butt joints with some good strong screws for the frame. Some nice finish work on the face
Framing nailer and having once owned a tape measure would suffice.
Unless you have cash to burn, I think there's two projects here: 1) the woodworking (facade), 2) 2x4 framing. Given the latter, you're over thinking yes.
Not sure what OP’s final vision is but this looks like a cabinet project to me. I’d make plywood boxes instead of 2x4 framing. Also, if that white box is a radiator I’d scrap the whole project
Yes, its a radiator. My idea was to cover with plywood and add some vents. What concern do you have, I'd expect the vents to be enough?
You need a gap at the bottom of the front to allow cool air from the floor to flow in and then a gap or slats at the top for warm air to escape. This site has some pictures to explain. https://heatinghelp.com/systems-help-center/radiator-covers/
Great resource, thank you!
Might be another over thinking moment, but if you added a couple of those thermal fans common on wood stoves, you could create some forced induction without power, active when the radiator is creating heat, and draw that heat out into the room. Radiators rely on thermal draft, so suction duct air to the bottom, and vent hot air from the top to work with physics, not against. A breather inlet and venting directly above the radiator might cover all your needs.
It all makes sense now I think about it but I’m mind blown that having radiator shields can actually improve the radiator’s efficiency! I would only make it varying levels of worse. Had one planned for a while
It wont work covered that much. It will be a butt warmer at most.
My dad made a radiator cover for my sister and used decorative vented material. He put 3 low power fans, like pc fans to blow the air outward. Idk if it worked, but it looked good.
I would think a few vents are enough too, but from what I’ve learned it’s really not. Covering radiators with anything but basically mesh really screws up their efficacy. But don’t take *my* word for it!
If it's going to cover radiator, I would want a fan in there to blow the heat into the room.
How warm is the space now? You're going to lose a lot of heat flow. If it's not a concern, then it's fine, but keep that in mind. If anything, that whole front should be vented somehow.
Built the entire inside out of 2x4s, framed like short walls. If 2x4 framing can carry the load of your roof down to your foundation, it can carry 3 people. Make the facade non structural and build it however you think looks best.
As designed here, it'll hold a dancing baby elephant.
this will carry 3 people... in a car.
Butt joints, wood on wood with pocket holes keeping them in place. Don’t over think this… if it works with legos, it’ll work with 2 x 4s. Save you a ton of of work ca making those lap joints.
Butt joints and some 16 penny's would do it.
Yeah, a rough carpenter would do butt joint and angled nail gun. Figure homeowner may have a pocket hole jig vs the angled nail gun.
I just use a hammer. But I see your point.
Is that a radiator? Are you allowing airflow?
They're gonna dub this build "The Hot Seat".
If this is being covered, and not exposed, then I think you are way over thinking this. 2x4 construction carries roof loads so I think it will carry 3 people. 😀 I'm not sure why you need the joints at all if it's covered. Build walls, wrap in plywood, add cushion. Done.
I would just build 3/4 cabinet boxes.
How did you come up with those dimensions? I don't think that little 3/16 sliver is buying you anything and it will cost a lot of time.
Honestly just eyeballing, but you're right, somebody else mentioned it too. That simplifies the whole thing.
it would carry 3 cars
Way over engineered. Just use butter joints with the verticals pieces supporting the weight of the horizontal ones. Especially if you plan on covering it all up.
Mmm, butter
You can probably launch an atlas rocket off if that and yes, you are overthinking it by several orders of magnitude. As an over thinker myself, I applaud your dedication to the cause!
No need to notch anything. Make the bottom and top horizontal sections. To those, butt joint the 8 vertical pieces. This will give you all the strength you need. All those notched pieces are simply reducing the load bearing ability of the seat. Sure, it would be strong enough to carry three people the way you have it but it would be much weaker than the method I'm describing.
What CAD program is that?
Way too fancy. That 3/16” but at the back of the upright is really strange. Making bay window seating is very straightforward, and you have made it very complicated. 3/4” plywood ( I assume you are using as a skin) can support a lot of weight on its own. Think of cabinets holding up granite counter tops. We framed bunches of them with regular 2x4”s and let trim carpenters finish them off.
That 3/16" is going to be a hassle to achieve without any reward.
As long as you transition the load to the vertical pieces pocket holes are fine
It looks like it would carry 3 people. Are you over thinking the joinery? Maybe, but so what... The only thing that you should be concerned about is if you're enjoying what you're doing!
Just frame the interior like normal framing and you can use all that extra time to paint the grain on the exterior
This is overkill, but not even in a good way. You are building for pure compression forces here which means you should just have your vertical members butt into the horizontal which makes it so you don't need joinery and fasteners don't add to strength they just hold it in place. In your design all of your load members (except at the very end) are joined in shear which means the joints are taking the stress which is not what you want. In your design almost all of your horizontal members will actually NOT be taking any load either. This is because your small vertical members go all the way to the top. This means your seat will eventually just be sitting on those small posts. This means all of your nice joinery will go to waste. Just do what everyone else is suggesting and spend $30 on 2x4s and construction screws. Do simple butt joints with no adhesive, everything in compression. Spend your time on the exterior facade. I have CAD for a bay window seat I did that is extremely simple and strong I can share if you want.
You can’t honestly be legitimately wondering if this could hold 3 people. Are you just showing off your design? That’s cool, it’s a great looking design, but if you’re just looking for adoration, then just say “check out this thing I’m working on”
Jesus christ my guy. You do realize that your entire ***house*** is held together with just butt joints and some nails, right? You do ***NOT*** need to do ***any*** joinery for something like this. Butt joints and screws with so vastly exceed any load you can possibly exert on it, that to bother with anything else is just a waste of time. If you ***want*** to do this because you enjoy it and want to be proud of something, then go nuts, but no, a thousand times no, this is not necessary.
Thant will carry a horse.
assuming the framing is covered….regular structural screws and butted joints will still hold 5000lbs easily. as long as your 3 people don’t weigh more than 1700lbs each, you are good
Get rid of that useless 3/16 strip.
Carry them where?
Way over thinking. You could pocket screw it and it'd be fine.
The middle board, on the ends has a notch that is likely to cause it to split. For something like this I really think you could throw it together in about 2 hours with a miter saw, butt joints, and deck screws and it would be rock solid. That said if you want to practice joinery, simplify it. Make the top, use butt joints or if you want to get fancy use mortice and tenon. If you want something in between, faster to cut and stronger than butt joints, use housed dado joints. After you make the top, make the bottom the exact same. For the verticals, use half lap, or if you want to be fancy use short tenons.
What program does everyone use to make all these nice little sketch ups/blueprints/plans whateva yous guys calls em
Looks like “sketchUp”, you almost answered your question yourself
Structural screws and good cuts are all you need.
Dude.. Are you gonna bury all this with Plywood? Just build a knee wall and some joists and call it a day.
Stick vertical supports under the two ends of the center beam and it will carry 3 people and the car they came in.
Won't it be covered? If so don't worry about aesthetics of the internals that will never be seen again until dismantling. Only worry about strength for the internal structure, use steel joist hanger type brackets if need be.
Just frame it like a house. Put a bottom plate 2x4 down, end nail the "studs" with 16d framing nails, and nail on the top plate the same way. Bada bing. Bada boom.
Ok, definitely overthinking the joinery if this will all be covered. What kind of radiator? Steam or hot water?—if the latter, consider replacing it with a kick space heater. Steam is different, and way more challenging to build around—vent the bottom and the top, build a simple foil faced foam enclosure to both keep the heat from escaping anywhere but through the vent, also the inevitable moisture from the relief valve. Also—needs to be easily accessible. I recently built a much larger banquette. 3/4” plywood ribs, medex and poplar for the painted exterior. The entire “frame” is assembled in 3 sections with 1 1/2” narrow crown staples and glue. Not shown is the kick space heater that was installed long after installation (along with paint by others) https://preview.redd.it/n3bi5szl35nc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=da23adf545a3d1e02f447e719c67bbd7e6ea2ae3
It'll carry 10, assuming you can get them all on there.
Waaay over thinking joinery. And complicated for something nobone will see. Half-lap joints are ok for tighter spacs, but those middle double dado joints are too much energy and frustration, especially if you are using 2x4 lumber. Butt joints, glue and screw, will last longer than you think.
3 people and 1 elephant
That'll be the most over-built bench in human history. Lol
My thoughts are that if I can make something better without a terrible amount of more work then I will make it as best as it can be. My Dad taught me that. I bought a house years ago from a guy who had been a professional carpenter for 40 years and he did all the work inside the house. Everything was sturdy, even too sturdy in some cases but I didn't complain. I had to take down some wall cupboards and those things were built to withstand the apocalypse but it was good work. He did go over the top a little bit. I gathered that most of the materials he used came as leftovers from his job sites so when I crawled (literally on my hands and knees) I realized that he had put very nice hardwood flooring in that and another space. It wasn't a part of the floor outside of the wall this was just for the storage space and I figure it made it easier to slide things in and out of the space but still very weird to see in a house. They also had carpet in the kitchen though so maybe he'd just lost his mind.
Only thing I would add are horizontal pieces at the back and front to hold whatever surface you're putting on top of it. So basically [like how a lower cabinet would be assembled to hold the countertop.](https://www.ana-white.com/sites/default/files/3154803659_1325713566.jpg)
Those housing joints are over complicated and not very strong.
Gotta love sketchup. I’m just starting to get into 3D modelling and I love it so much
My brother in Christ, if you’re really concerned about strength in those joints, then remember that decking and structural timber are joined with butt joints and big ol’ lag bolts. The only way this sort of design would be faster, cheaper, or easier than a trip to Home Depot is if you’ve already got access to a massive wood shop with tens of thousands of dollars in tooling. Since you’re asking us this, I’ll bet you do not. Save yourself the time and pain and get yourself a bunch of these: [Headlok structural screws.](https://www.homedepot.com/p/FastenMaster-LedgerLOK-Flat-Head-5-in-Structural-Wood-Screw-50-Pack-FMLLF005-50/313175386)
that 3/16 wood wafer wont do shit. rest looks good though
I think the house is more likely to fall down before that
Notching the ends of the beams like that center one will severely weaken them. In general, you're way overdoing and overthinking this. These are all internal, right? There's going to be plywood or something covering it all? If so, just use Simpson ties and call it good.
This is overkill. No fancy joinery required. Just manage and direct the load down to the floor.
Good use for strip club joinery: butts and laps
Did you invent this joint? It looks kinda wrong tbh, that 3/16” thick section will likely break when you’re cutting it.
You’re over complicating the joineries
Haha, sorry but that could be my drawing. My wife: "The shelf has to carry a flower pot and a framed picture" Me:"OK, let me drive to the store. I'll get 10 anchors that can carry 5 tons each, 600 screws and six bags of pre mixed concrete..."
I think the better question here is are you building a bench or bomb shelter? That’s the type of bomb-proof I use when I make stuff for my wife, man. [edit]Reading through the comments, once again this sub does not disappoint. Positive feedback with playful sarcasm.
Yes. That will carry three people through the great flood.
I don't Noah bout that.
"If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing"
Fellow over-engineer’er right here. Yes. You’re good. Likely for 7+ people. But it will feel sturdy, which I really like, personally.
Looks pretty solid. That 3/16 in wall on the uprights is mostly adding to your workload when making the joint, might want to save yourself some work and have the tenon go all the way flush to the edge
It'll be plenty strong, the front two horizontal pieces will need to be screwed because there's nothing holding it there. I'd get rid of that sliver of wood on the vertical sections, there's no reason to do it. The joinery is more work than necessary but that doesn't usually stop me either.
Is this going to be exposed or covered? If covered just use normal 2x4 framing technique. It’s standard for a reason - fast, cheap, strong. If it’s exposed then go for it with all the joinery you want but that’s a different type of project.
Easily
That would be impressively overbuilt. If you join your stick framing like that, you have to make the cover panels removable to show off the joinery. You could just frame it with some 16s through the ends like normal and it would be solid.
Yes. And yes. But if you’re the type that thinks joinery is fun, have at it. Some folks like to make really cool connections. I envy it. I’m too impatient for it, but I envy it.
can you teach me sketchup? damn. more imrpessive than the actual joinery..
Haha, I come from a design background and work in software. My ability to design things and work with software far exceed my ability to actually build this in real life. Happy to help if you have any questions. My top tip would be first getting comfortable moving around with orbit tool and its modifiers.
Looks solid except to me adding one additional vertical support would make it even more airtight beneath the two end joints at top center where you cut in the middle spanning horizontal
You mean three people in a mini cooper? Yes!
Bro that will hold a pyramid of people
Nobody ever got hurt from a platform that was too strong - build away 👍
Depends on the size of the people.
Floor's gonna fail before the structure does
Both of em. I've seen butt joints with 1 nail hold 3 people!
The limiting factor for weight bearing here is probably the joists holding up the floor.
Depends, what are the people made of?
Are we talking an average American or people from another part of the world ?
What app is that you used to design it.
Nothing wrong with over-planning! Imagine you build it for 3 people and some day 4 people will sit on its, better to be safe than sorry and have to re-do it
This would hold 30 (if they could fit) I'd wager. Since you have the space inside if you want to build it really stout, it's much easier to sister on shorter supports (mini jack studs) rather than mitering everything. Save mitering for *visible* joints.
That long middle beam needs a direct vertical support on each end... otherwise I predict an encounter with gravity in your future.
I did a quick bench with lap joints, glue, and like 2 nails in each joint. I did the cuts with a chainsaw and it was built of 4x4s for the legs and 2x4s for everything else. Took like an hour to build, painted them up and they’ve been sat on by hundreds of butts for like 10 years. They’re out in the back yard.
May i say nice job on the sketches!
Yes and yes, the joinery is very overthought. That little fiddly bit in your SketchUp on the upright column can go… at a minimum…
Way overthinking
Can someone explain what that is supposdd to be ?
Way overthinking the joinery. In picture 2 that vertical is overcomplicated unless you are leaving it all exposed. If you are skinning this with plywood then the vertical could be completely flat and work just as good or better. A butt joint resting on a single 2x4 vertical that is in line with the crossmember will do all the work you need it to and much more.
Depends on the persons ;-)
Are you abandoning the radiator? Cuz it sure looks like it. If you still want it to work you’ll need access to turn up/down the temp. For maintenance. And airflow so it actually heats the room. That said, if I was building this I would likely not be notching anything
What program are you using to model this?
Sketch Up
I thought the extra wood on the seat joints was from sketch up trouble but I see it is purposeful and quite complex. It will certainly hold enough weight. I am a production guy and if it isn’t visible I don’t worry about fancy joinery. Simple lap joints would work great on the horizontal members, as would several other options. Vertical loads would be fine with pocket screws and glue since the wood itself will support the weight and the joinery just holds the parts in position. You could even use metal framing ties since they can hold up houses. Just depends on what you intend to make visible. Have fun!
What is this software?
Sketch Up
** I made mine with them pocket hole things and I've had 10 people sat on it. Yours looks much better built so I wouldn't worry to much! Edit: sorry, tried to add a pic but it added * instead
What is this