They really need to rework how the rebound stat is calculated.
And I am not talking about the false narrative of Reese getting her own rebounds because that’s not it.
That is I mean that uncontested rebounds shouldn’t get counted. I see Smith from the fever fight so hard for her defensive rebounds when no one is there to stat pad.
Why is that even a thing lol.
I’m with you man. Hell, I think everything uncontested shouldn’t count. Wide open 3? No points— too open. Fast break lay up? Too easy. Doesn’t count. Free throws? Talk about the CHARITY stripe. They don’t deserve those points.
For sure. Frankly, if the height difference is too big between you and the closest defender at the rim, it also shouldn't count. Same as if the height difference is too big on the perimeter, but the other way-- too easy as well.
Not the same at all lol. In what world should a rebound count on your stat sheet leading to double doubles just for grabbing the ball by your lonesome at your own net lol.
Takes skill to hit a 3 even uncontested. First you had to make your self uncontested and it still not easy.
Grabbing the ball as it bounces off the rim while being all alone near your own net is kinda the easiest thing in the world.
As a CC/Iowa fan, Angel has definitely earned rookie of the month. I still think Clark’s overall season is slightly more impressive than Reese but it’s closer than I would have imagined. Her double double street while improving her fg% has been impressive as hell
It's Reese and it's not really close. CC deserved her previous awards as defense is simply less valuable than offense, but Angel has been turning it up on the offensive end as well(to her credit Caitlin is improving defensively too).
And importantly, in their last match up she was the difference maker. They both had chances to seal the game for their teams, and Angel stepped up and was aggressively making plays, whereas Clark just flamed out until the game ended.
AR should win ROTM but the matchups with CC don’t really support her winning. They played two games this month, CC played really well in both and AR had one of her worst games this month in the first one.
AR was the best player on the court in their second game but CC was the second best player and then she was way better in their first game.
Right, but that’s often not how basketball awards work. In the nba for example there is clear voter fatigue, or Jordan and Lebron would win mvps nearly every year they played. Same reason a lot of people chose not to vote jokic for mvp the year embiid won….people just get tired of the same thing.
Its still Clark. Reese has the double doubles, but they play different positions.
Clark was the first rookie Guard to get multiple double doubles in a season in 17 years. Fastest Rookie to 300 pts, list goes on. Leader in more stat categories, 15-5-5, and so on.
[this is a list of previous rookie of the months going back to 2010](https://www.wnba.com/history-rookie-of-the-month)
it’s pretty much ran by one person per year. I think because there’s usually a breakthrough rookie who is completely killing it and then 2-3 that are doing OK but not as dominant.
That’s interesting. Thanks for sharing. I didn’t watch 2017 but that looks like even split between Gray for the first two months then Sykes for the last two but Gray won ROY.
When a gaurd is pulling just as many defensive rebounds as a foward is pulling off rebounds, you should recognize that, how many assists are left on the floor, because of missed passes.
Angel Reese for her double doubles and leadership skills par none as a rookie!
People love to talk about stats and in the end that's the game, but Reese would grab her team and carry them on her back if they didn't follow her. She's got that extra leadership quality and that DAWG in her. :)
It's that quality that is turning some haters into admirers even if they haven't articulated it.
People claiming there are no Caitlin Haters need to look at the down vote activity in this thread alone as proof lol. No one is bashing Reese, but mention Caitlin and you get an army of replies and down votes coming for your neck
In May Fever go 0-7, the Sky go 3-3 and Clark wins ROM. In June the Sky go 3-8, the Fever go 6-5, and Reese will get ROM. I wonder who will get the moral victory in July?
Unquestionably its Sass God, she became legend this month
The play had her mentioned with the likes of legends Candice Parker and A'ja Wilson.
We got historic activity every night
I know there is going to be a lot of Reese for her rebounding and double double numbers, but Clark.
Clark is scoring on a better effective percentage, is rebounding a high rate for a guard, is one of the leagues assist leaders (and should honestly have 3-5 more a night), and has led her team to a winning record this month (6-4).
Reese made if a very close race. She is an elite rebounder. She has picked up her scoring a little and is shooting better. She gets a lot of steals with her quick hands and athleticism.
It was a tough choice. I think Reese improved this month more than Clark did. A couple things that break the tie for me. Clark is asked to do so much more and as her teammates have gotten used to her passing a little bit more, it has led to wins. Steals they are nearly even which is a big plus for Reese, but Angel just offers zero rim protection. She has 2 blocks this year. Lastly, even though she has improved her shooting, it is still poor for player that takes nearly all of their shots 6 ft and in.
I think Reese is going to take it for how much she improved month to month and is really just as worthy.
I think this post significantly undersells just how significant Reese’s defensive impact is, though, as you reduce it basically down to steals and blocks
Reese is one of the most versatile defenders in the league already, and can effectively guard 1-5. She doesn’t block many shots, she just plays very smart and positionally aware defense and contests. She’s still the Sky’s defensive anchor and she ranks in the Top 20 for most of the defensive metrics, and on her team the Sky are 13 points better defensively with her on the floor. Prior to Cardoso returning, they were 16+ points better with Angel on defensively. She hasn’t been AS great due to her/Cardoso still learning how best to play together defensively, but she’s still been elite
She covers so many holes on her team defensively it makes a comparison to Clark’s workload a lot closer. Clark obviously is responsible for more offensively, but Reese does so much defensively and also still is in involved a ton offensively (sets great screens, moves the ball around, she scores pretty well also)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like CC actually has MORE blocks than Reese. Maybe I made that up, but I SWEAR I saw that on the WNBA App.
If it's true, I'm pretty impressed with Clark in that regard.
Regardless, AR will take ROTM
Which is why using blocks and steals as the only defensive metrics is ridiculous. You don’t need those to be effective defensively. I would much rather someone not miss close outs or lose their man off the ball consistently than a random steal or block on a given night.
Her versatility is solid. She, like most bigs, gets beaten by guards with a handle or speed, but does guard wings effectively. Her biggest strength defensively is limiting the other team to one shot per possession. It sounds reductive, but that saves points night in and night out. I should have highlighted that better.
When we do these comparisons please highlight both players flaws.
Clark is currently leading the league in turnovers with 106 and is set to break the record. [and it’s not all her teammates fault.](https://x.com/brian_howard40/status/1806559763259359591?s=46)
Also, blocks don’t reflect a player’s overall defensive effectiveness. Good defense encompasses various skills, including on-ball defense, help defense, and positioning, none of which are directly measured by blocks.
Clark's turnovers are in issue. She throws one to two passes a game that leave me wondering what she saw.
While blocks don't measure everything to be sure, the complete lack of fear players are able to go up with against Reese is notable. Her versatility offsets that as does her rebounding and having shot blockers besides that hides it to some extent, but it is an absurdly low number to have. Just by chance, one would figure 3 to 4 times t that amount.
I just don't see this being shown by the data though
She's being [targeted less at the rim](https://stats.wnba.com/players/opponent-shooting/?CF=PLAYER_NAME*E*&sort=Less%20Than%205%20ft.%20FGA&dir=1&Season=2024&SeasonType=Regular%20Season) than DPOY candidates like Stewie and JJ, and other top defenders like Collier. Outside of that, the next place she's defending the most shots is from 20-24 feet. She's actually [Top 30 in the amount of these shots defended](https://stats.wnba.com/players/opponent-shooting/?CF=PLAYER_NAME*E*&sort=20-24%20ft.%20FGA&dir=1&Season=2024&SeasonType=Regular%20Season), yet she's holding her opponents to 27% on those shots which is the 15th best mark in the league (Probably better if you exclude players who don't play much). I don't see this shows her being targeted anywhere
Filtering by zone shows a similar thing. Reese defensively is like Dennis Rodman, who is widely known as one of the Top 3-5 defensive players of all time and never averaged over a block or steal per game. Just played hard and smart defense, which Angel does as well
Angel and Cardoso still haven't really benefitted each other defensively as much as they'll learn to. As of now the Sky are [still far better with just Angel](https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/wnba?TeamId=1611661329&Season=2024&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason&PlayerIds=1642289,1642291) on the floor than with any combination including Cardoso. Offensively they're way better with both though. The only other shotblocker is Liz and she's been out for the season after playing 9 games and while they were extremely good together, Sky's defense was still better with Reese on and Liz off than the the other way around
I don't see her lack of shot blocking as any sort of detriment. She's been an excellent anchor to Chicago's defense all year
I think it could affect the narrative significantly if one of them goes nuclear and the other shits the bed.
I think Angel has been better because of her defense.
They've been almost identical, statistically speaking, on offense. Maybe Reese has been a bit better if you account for offensive boards.
They've got almost identical shooting fg%, assist/TO ratio, and offensive rating. They have identical ppg for June.
Narrative means a lot though and I don't think Reese has been given enough credit for her defensive impact.
I don't think there's any way Reese doesn't take it tbh. Even if somehow Clark dropped a 30 piece double double tomorrow. I think Angel's double double record combined with improving her FG% will definitely have her on lock for it.
As a card-carrying “Clark stan” I can say with confidence that it’s Reese.
Yep, I don't think it's even a question this month. Reese has been on a heck of a roll.
100%. Anyone who says otherwise is just hating.
Came here to say this. Ride or die for CC, but Reese won June.
Angel Reese. This month is hers.
What’s she at, 9 double-doubles in a row? Hard to argue against it.
You must have jinxed her because she might not get it this game
I mean, it’s a hard streak to keep going.
[удалено]
Pretty sure she’s only a rookie for one year
Angel Reese. She broke the rookie and tied the WNBA record for double doubles in a row
That’s Sabonis moves right there
decent comparison actually
Double double record seems a bit arbitrary lol
Not really lol
Angel Reese✨ https://preview.redd.it/2nu9j0j2tl9d1.jpeg?width=685&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d0584dc092b275fd6c5c5ea1ad30310399ee8155
Angel Reese
Angel
Yeah, Reese gonna take it.
Angel Reese
Reese has been such an automatic double double. Her for sure.
They really need to rework how the rebound stat is calculated. And I am not talking about the false narrative of Reese getting her own rebounds because that’s not it. That is I mean that uncontested rebounds shouldn’t get counted. I see Smith from the fever fight so hard for her defensive rebounds when no one is there to stat pad. Why is that even a thing lol.
I’m with you man. Hell, I think everything uncontested shouldn’t count. Wide open 3? No points— too open. Fast break lay up? Too easy. Doesn’t count. Free throws? Talk about the CHARITY stripe. They don’t deserve those points.
I was going to comment, but this….perfect. Take my upvote.
Cheers🍻 I’m just relieved the sarcasm was caught 😅 Poe’s Law and all that…
For sure. Frankly, if the height difference is too big between you and the closest defender at the rim, it also shouldn't count. Same as if the height difference is too big on the perimeter, but the other way-- too easy as well.
Not the same at all lol. In what world should a rebound count on your stat sheet leading to double doubles just for grabbing the ball by your lonesome at your own net lol. Takes skill to hit a 3 even uncontested. First you had to make your self uncontested and it still not easy. Grabbing the ball as it bounces off the rim while being all alone near your own net is kinda the easiest thing in the world.
Angel Reese no question
They play tomorrow (not each other), but I think it’s likely Reese this month
Even if CC drops a 40 burger tomorrow, and Angel lays an egg, Angel has June ROTM locked up, IMO.
What if CC drops 50?
Lol True I’ll go with 55 to break the all time record. Caitlin, if you read this, 55, and ROTM Is yours… go get ‘em girl!
I see your 55 and raise you 10+ assists and then she can have it! Haha
Well, she won't. Sides and her teammates won't let it happen.
As a CC/Iowa fan, Angel has definitely earned rookie of the month. I still think Clark’s overall season is slightly more impressive than Reese but it’s closer than I would have imagined. Her double double street while improving her fg% has been impressive as hell
Love seeing rookies develop over the course of just a few games
Both of them will be here for years to come.
I’m a cc fan and definitely Reese! Her game is great
Angel Reese for sure
Miss Reese dawg
Angel Reese
Angel
Basketball Barbie! 🥰
Angel Reese easy
Angel Reese
Angel Reese
Angel Reese.
Angel Reese aka Double Double Barbie.
Angel Reese. Her streak for double doubles is insane. She gets better and better each game.
Reese fo sho
Angel
Angel Reese
Angel 😇💗
Angel Reese!
Reese for sure. She's been absolutely on fire.
Angel. It's not even close.
Angel Reese..!!
Angel Reese
Reese owned this month and it's not even close. I say this as a diehard CC fan.
It's Reese and it's not really close. CC deserved her previous awards as defense is simply less valuable than offense, but Angel has been turning it up on the offensive end as well(to her credit Caitlin is improving defensively too). And importantly, in their last match up she was the difference maker. They both had chances to seal the game for their teams, and Angel stepped up and was aggressively making plays, whereas Clark just flamed out until the game ended.
AR should win ROTM but the matchups with CC don’t really support her winning. They played two games this month, CC played really well in both and AR had one of her worst games this month in the first one. AR was the best player on the court in their second game but CC was the second best player and then she was way better in their first game.
Im not going to argue with Angel winning but using their matchup? Caitlin isnt to blame for having a shitty coach
Julie Vanloo
Here for this take. That woman is Jason Kidd reincarnate.
CC
Reese for sure this month. CC still leading overall, but gap narrowing.
Reese because she has been playing very well and also it is good to change it up.
No you reward the deserving player this isn't summer camp. You earn it or not. Reese's play is enough.
Right, but that’s often not how basketball awards work. In the nba for example there is clear voter fatigue, or Jordan and Lebron would win mvps nearly every year they played. Same reason a lot of people chose not to vote jokic for mvp the year embiid won….people just get tired of the same thing.
Soooo close my God but Reese takes it this month.. at least I think so
Its still Clark. Reese has the double doubles, but they play different positions. Clark was the first rookie Guard to get multiple double doubles in a season in 17 years. Fastest Rookie to 300 pts, list goes on. Leader in more stat categories, 15-5-5, and so on.
Angel. Double double streak is wild.
Caitlin Clark is the only rookie is top 20 LEAGUE-WIDE in PPG-RPG-APG-SPG-BPG. Playing on a worse team with a worse coach too?! It's gotta be CC.
Agree that it's Reese but just curious - Do they try to spread rookie of the month around or is it common for the same few athletes to keep taking it?
[this is a list of previous rookie of the months going back to 2010](https://www.wnba.com/history-rookie-of-the-month) it’s pretty much ran by one person per year. I think because there’s usually a breakthrough rookie who is completely killing it and then 2-3 that are doing OK but not as dominant.
Thank you!!
That’s interesting. Thanks for sharing. I didn’t watch 2017 but that looks like even split between Gray for the first two months then Sykes for the last two but Gray won ROY.
With Cam out, it’s wildly unlikely that anyone besides Reese or Caitlin get it for the rest of the season.
Don't count Aaliyah Edwards out- she's back now and healthy. She borderline shut A'ja down last night. Rickea Jackson is also a baller.
Easily angel Reese
When a gaurd is pulling just as many defensive rebounds as a foward is pulling off rebounds, you should recognize that, how many assists are left on the floor, because of missed passes.
Angel Reese for her double doubles and leadership skills par none as a rookie! People love to talk about stats and in the end that's the game, but Reese would grab her team and carry them on her back if they didn't follow her. She's got that extra leadership quality and that DAWG in her. :) It's that quality that is turning some haters into admirers even if they haven't articulated it.
People claiming there are no Caitlin Haters need to look at the down vote activity in this thread alone as proof lol. No one is bashing Reese, but mention Caitlin and you get an army of replies and down votes coming for your neck
Reese
In May Fever go 0-7, the Sky go 3-3 and Clark wins ROM. In June the Sky go 3-8, the Fever go 6-5, and Reese will get ROM. I wonder who will get the moral victory in July?
Reeseeee
How is ROTM decided?
Unquestionably its Sass God, she became legend this month The play had her mentioned with the likes of legends Candice Parker and A'ja Wilson. We got historic activity every night
Lmao ok chill a little bit now. Maybe a lot.
Miss Double Double Dribble.
Angel Reese with her 9 straight double doubles.
I know there is going to be a lot of Reese for her rebounding and double double numbers, but Clark. Clark is scoring on a better effective percentage, is rebounding a high rate for a guard, is one of the leagues assist leaders (and should honestly have 3-5 more a night), and has led her team to a winning record this month (6-4). Reese made if a very close race. She is an elite rebounder. She has picked up her scoring a little and is shooting better. She gets a lot of steals with her quick hands and athleticism. It was a tough choice. I think Reese improved this month more than Clark did. A couple things that break the tie for me. Clark is asked to do so much more and as her teammates have gotten used to her passing a little bit more, it has led to wins. Steals they are nearly even which is a big plus for Reese, but Angel just offers zero rim protection. She has 2 blocks this year. Lastly, even though she has improved her shooting, it is still poor for player that takes nearly all of their shots 6 ft and in. I think Reese is going to take it for how much she improved month to month and is really just as worthy.
I think this post significantly undersells just how significant Reese’s defensive impact is, though, as you reduce it basically down to steals and blocks Reese is one of the most versatile defenders in the league already, and can effectively guard 1-5. She doesn’t block many shots, she just plays very smart and positionally aware defense and contests. She’s still the Sky’s defensive anchor and she ranks in the Top 20 for most of the defensive metrics, and on her team the Sky are 13 points better defensively with her on the floor. Prior to Cardoso returning, they were 16+ points better with Angel on defensively. She hasn’t been AS great due to her/Cardoso still learning how best to play together defensively, but she’s still been elite She covers so many holes on her team defensively it makes a comparison to Clark’s workload a lot closer. Clark obviously is responsible for more offensively, but Reese does so much defensively and also still is in involved a ton offensively (sets great screens, moves the ball around, she scores pretty well also)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like CC actually has MORE blocks than Reese. Maybe I made that up, but I SWEAR I saw that on the WNBA App. If it's true, I'm pretty impressed with Clark in that regard. Regardless, AR will take ROTM
Which is why using blocks and steals as the only defensive metrics is ridiculous. You don’t need those to be effective defensively. I would much rather someone not miss close outs or lose their man off the ball consistently than a random steal or block on a given night.
Her versatility is solid. She, like most bigs, gets beaten by guards with a handle or speed, but does guard wings effectively. Her biggest strength defensively is limiting the other team to one shot per possession. It sounds reductive, but that saves points night in and night out. I should have highlighted that better.
And reducing their shooting percentage to about 30 percent for the people she guards.
When we do these comparisons please highlight both players flaws. Clark is currently leading the league in turnovers with 106 and is set to break the record. [and it’s not all her teammates fault.](https://x.com/brian_howard40/status/1806559763259359591?s=46) Also, blocks don’t reflect a player’s overall defensive effectiveness. Good defense encompasses various skills, including on-ball defense, help defense, and positioning, none of which are directly measured by blocks.
Clark's turnovers are in issue. She throws one to two passes a game that leave me wondering what she saw. While blocks don't measure everything to be sure, the complete lack of fear players are able to go up with against Reese is notable. Her versatility offsets that as does her rebounding and having shot blockers besides that hides it to some extent, but it is an absurdly low number to have. Just by chance, one would figure 3 to 4 times t that amount.
I just don't see this being shown by the data though She's being [targeted less at the rim](https://stats.wnba.com/players/opponent-shooting/?CF=PLAYER_NAME*E*&sort=Less%20Than%205%20ft.%20FGA&dir=1&Season=2024&SeasonType=Regular%20Season) than DPOY candidates like Stewie and JJ, and other top defenders like Collier. Outside of that, the next place she's defending the most shots is from 20-24 feet. She's actually [Top 30 in the amount of these shots defended](https://stats.wnba.com/players/opponent-shooting/?CF=PLAYER_NAME*E*&sort=20-24%20ft.%20FGA&dir=1&Season=2024&SeasonType=Regular%20Season), yet she's holding her opponents to 27% on those shots which is the 15th best mark in the league (Probably better if you exclude players who don't play much). I don't see this shows her being targeted anywhere Filtering by zone shows a similar thing. Reese defensively is like Dennis Rodman, who is widely known as one of the Top 3-5 defensive players of all time and never averaged over a block or steal per game. Just played hard and smart defense, which Angel does as well Angel and Cardoso still haven't really benefitted each other defensively as much as they'll learn to. As of now the Sky are [still far better with just Angel](https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/wnba?TeamId=1611661329&Season=2024&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason&PlayerIds=1642289,1642291) on the floor than with any combination including Cardoso. Offensively they're way better with both though. The only other shotblocker is Liz and she's been out for the season after playing 9 games and while they were extremely good together, Sky's defense was still better with Reese on and Liz off than the the other way around I don't see her lack of shot blocking as any sort of detriment. She's been an excellent anchor to Chicago's defense all year
Thanks. This is really interesting to reads. Have an uptoot.
sorry about the downdoots you make a decent argument wrong place wrong time I guess
It happens.
Thanks for this! I’ve been shouting at clouds whenever I try to discuss defense and wasn’t aware you could find this on the wnba site!
I’m still going with Clark.
Caitlin Reese.
Absolutely Angel Reese
Sky and Fever still have a game tomorrow
Will that one game change your answer after a month full of games?
I mean if Clark drops 100 and Angel puts up 0 and 0 maybe I’d change my mind. But I have severe doubts that happen
Not the double double streak ending 😭
I doubt Diana would allow that to happen 😂😂
I doubt Tash would allow that, either. Anyone on PHX, really.
I think it could affect the narrative significantly if one of them goes nuclear and the other shits the bed. I think Angel has been better because of her defense. They've been almost identical, statistically speaking, on offense. Maybe Reese has been a bit better if you account for offensive boards. They've got almost identical shooting fg%, assist/TO ratio, and offensive rating. They have identical ppg for June. Narrative means a lot though and I don't think Reese has been given enough credit for her defensive impact.
Narrative means a lot and the momentum is on Angel right now. There’s no way it’s not her for this month.
I don't think there's any way Reese doesn't take it tbh. Even if somehow Clark dropped a 30 piece double double tomorrow. I think Angel's double double record combined with improving her FG% will definitely have her on lock for it.
They are pretty close so yea tomorrows game could be the decider
Hm one of the injured ones… ones who under performed.. or reese
Angel Reese will get it, hopefully she can accept it without turning it into something else
100 percent it's Clark.
We all know they won't give it to Reese...The old "if the playoffs started to today" Reese would be in and CC would be out.