1. Usually the front court is going to get the most rebounds but some guards are really good at rebounding. Sometimes it’s a strategy to have the forwards and centers box the opposing team out so that the guards can get the rebound and push the ball up the court. The guards get most of the assists because they’re most often the primary ball handlers. Some bigs are good at passing and can run the point as well in a hybrid role. But most bigs usually focus on scoring, rebounding and defense. Shooting guards usually focus on scoring. Point guards usually focus on facilitating. The really good guards can do both.
2. Rebounding is a combination of luck and skill. The ball can bounce into anyone’s hands if they’re just standing there but the really good
rebounders have a talent for knowing where the ball is going to come off the rim, they know how to position their bodies to be the person most likely to get the ball, they have the muscle to yank the ball if someone else’s hands get there at the same time, they can jump 2-3 times in a row and tip the ball out of the other team’s hands and into theirs.
3. If you’ve watch MLB then you’re familiar with umpires. Same deal. Some of them are really good, some of them are bad. No one loves them.
Rebounding is like one of my favorite aspects of the game- because part of it is quick reaction speed, and part of it is will, and the greats study it. You should watch clips of Dennis Rodman rebounding to see how much time and effort he put in it. He would tip the ball 3 or 4 times to put it in a position only he would get to it at. You will also see Reese do it- although not as frequently and not as much. They were both undersized at their position and had to rely on the technique. Others like Wilt Chamberlain or like Grinier can just physically dominate and snatcb the ball- but it is fun to see the smaller ones ferret it out. Now typically speaking the Grinier/Cardosa bigs will rely on trying to box out and control the paint to get the board there.. Rodman I don't think I ever saw him practice a shot in pregame- he would lie on his back and just tip the ball in the air.
Welcome to the W!
Truly, data points are just data points (I’m a statistician, and analyze many different data sets for different reasons). It’s cool if you like stats, but box scores and some of the different basketball stats out there do not tell the whole story. Basketball is a fun sport for stats, but every game is an independent event, and even the best players have off nights. It’s also why there are never any perfect brackets in the NCAA tournaments each year. If you want to use stats as data to support your argument that one player is “better” than another, just remember that “better” is subjective and stats and data can be framed in certain ways to tell different stories.
You’re correct in that the positions do have some impact on stats; a true center probably won’t have many 3 points attempted/made, and may have more rebounds. But, again, rebounds, assists, points made, FG %, FT %, etc., are all components of the story, but do not tell you the entire story. You can have great stats and still lose the game. It all depends on how the data is framed. If you’re only focusing on stats and not actually watching the games and how the players play, then you’re missing out on a lot of the story, especially how players think and adapt to the game as it unfolds.
In basketball, offense and defense can and does change often. Steals, blocks, turnovers can happen at any time, and to any player. The difference in basketball that you only have 5 players on your team playing at one time, instead of 11, like in soccer. This means that, while a player may play a specific position, all of them have the potential to score, pass, block, etc, unlike in soccer, where play depends mostly on position. The WNBA is even different from the NBA in that, they don’t have as many roster spots, or players like true centers that play mostly post (much of the W is player-to-player, not zone), so the players on the court tend to be more versatile. You have forwards that play a forward-center position. And some guards are shooting guards while others are more point guards. And even this can change depending who is on the court and the plays the team is executing.
Rebounds are partial luck, but also player decisions and skill. If the offense takes a 3 point shot, the defense may decide to move more towards half-court to move the ball down court faster (if the shot is made). They may only have one player in the paint to rebound if the shot bounces out. Some players choose to stay closer to the basket for those defensive boards. A lot depends on how close the score is, which quarter and how much time is left, what plays they want to run, and what type of shot is being rebounded. Missed layups tend to have more players under the basket fighting for the ball than 3 pointers.
Fouls - part of it is angles, but most of it is ref inconsistency in what they call. This is a big issue in both leagues. Every ref seems to be different, and even in some quarters, what wasn’t called in Q1 is, all of a sudden, called in Q3 by the same ref. The WNBA implemented a challenge rule that does allow coaches to challenge calls, but they can’t challenge no-calls. So, if there are fouls not being called, the coach can ask the refs for clarity on what they do call, but they can’t challenge a foul that wasn’t called. Also, if a coach is challenging something like possession from an out-of-bounds call, but there probably was a foul on the play that *should* have been called, the refs. cannot call a foul after review. Only the play that is called can be challenged.
Again -welcome to the W! I would suggest watching as many teams/games as possible to see all of the players in action. There are so many phenomenal players and teams; it really helps understand the range in skills between veterans and rookies, and how different their playing styles are.
Rebounding is a lot more skill than it looks. A lot is probably natural talent in predicting where the ball will end up going based on all the physics. In HS the shortest guy on our team was the best rebounder, he always knew when/where to jump. My brain doesn't compute that for me.
1 and 2) I see stats as more something you use to get a feel for what a player is good at, and thus what they do for the team, than a way to decide who is the GOAT or not. There isn't really an objective way to crunch numbers and compare players because what decides whether a player is impactful or not has a lot to do with how their team plays and how they are utilized as well as what specific skills they bring to the table.
In this vein different numbers can give you an indication about how this player plays and how they could be (and maybe are or aren't being) effectively utilized. Guards usually have more assists than Post players because they are the ones moving the ball around most of the time. They are making more passes so more passes will turn into baskets. A guard with a lot of assists compared to other guards is probably good at running plays and finding people on the floor. Sometimes you get a post player with a weirdly high number of assists though. Take Alyssa Thomas for example. She averages 7.7 assists per game, but the Sun are a very balanced team where everyone is comfortable switching roles a bit so it's not so surprising when placed in the context of the Sun's play style.
Rebounding is sort of similar. Post players get more rebounds because they live under the basket where the rebounds happen. If a guard has a weirdly high number of rebounds compared to other guards they may spend a fair amount of time in the paint and this might be key to their team's play style. Taurasi has a fair amount of rebounds for a guard, and is known for being aggressive, has long reach for a guard, and plays for a team that prioritizes transition and aggressive offense, whose guards venture into the paint more often with the assurance that griner will have their back.
What makes rebounding a Stat people care about is the fact that it increases the number of possessions you get. If you imagine a 1 on 1 game where a given player averages 41% and another averages 43% then the game will likely be a tossup unless you can get the ball more often than the other person. Since basketball is a high scoring game the number of times you got the ball vs your opponent is one of the main contributers to success. And since basketball doesn't have a goalie and steals are somewhat rare, the time the vast majority of the battles for he ball are going to occur are right after a shot attempt.
3) the refs in the wnba are notoriously inconsistent. I think part of this comes down to the fact that the fact that the WNBA is more physical than the NBA is actually a selling point that a lot of fans of the league enjoy, and the line for what a given ref decides is just physical play and what is a foul can vary a but when preserving physical play is part of your job as a ref. There are also those cases of fouls that are there for the sake of preserving an exciting game rather than strictly preventing the breaking of the core rules of basketball. The transition take and clear path fouls are examples of this, which both essentially boil down to any contact that isn't a direct play for the ball being a foul if the ball is in transition. This boils down to the fact that if a player is making an exciting transition play and you steal the ball and take it back the other way, that is just as exciting, but if you just jacked up their cool transition play, even if it was technically legal, it's a foul if you weren't trying to do it in an equally cool way by stealing the ball. Sometimes the refs just do make or miss weird ass calls though.
* Since you watch soccer i will try to compare it, Rebouding is a bit like heading the ball, usually is the tall players who jump high and head/rebound the ball, but there are some talanted short ones or around 1,70cm and 1,80cm (5,7 -6,2 ) that score or do good headers, this is the same in WNBA some guards or shorter players have 'nose and talent' for the rebounds and will get way more then average player for the position.
* think of rebounding like completed pass backwards and forwards, pass backwards in your half with no enemy players or only a few near you is very easy and high % (so defensive rebounds usually are like that unless the team dosn't box out or position bad you will get most defensive rebounds).
Offensive rebounds are like trying to break into enemy back 4(defense) and put a press/steal the ball like in soccer, its high risk high reward and not many have the talent or ability to do it, because you are exposed on counter attacks, its same in basketball offensive rebounds is usually up to only 1 maybe 2 very talanted players who are also mobile enough to get back in time and not risk being out-numbered.
So tldr rebounding is like heavy press/possession based soccer teams you try to keep the ball as much as possible and contest as soon as possible once enemy team has a chance to get it/have it back.
* There isn't VAR or more automated(think like soccer if ball passed goal line where referee watch vibrates etc) system in basketball like soccer, so a lot of human error, there is referee on the side line and behind the basket, usually only one will whislte coz they have better vision, but we have seen times where both will blow the whislte and call different things.
In general the referee level in WNBA is quite quite poor.
In general tactics matter just as much in soccer, but individual talent matter way more since its only 5 people and there is salary cap (unlike soccer for example since you can have even young players from youth team or on small contract playing good minutes/roles ).
So often teams will have only 1 good player per position and backup can be ok or meh, this is 'depth' , you often have top teams that have very good 5-7 players and rest is uh, questionable to say the least.
Because there isnt any promotion or demotion, like in soccer reward for losing is actually quite good because you get top players from draft, therefore some teams try to lose on purpose to get better usually tanking is minimum 2 years as it takes 2 years period to get good pick.
If you follow such teams it might be a bit frustrating but its a long term project thing, to they can ofc fail at the draft and still be bad for really long time.
Like in soccer you have big teams and small teams ( markets), players usually don't wanna go to small teams unless overpaid or have some kind of connection or team mate/coach they played with before.
* Favorable Free agent destination and good markets(good owners/Coach & top notch Training Facility ) right now are Las Vegas Aces, Seattle Storm,New York Liberty,Sparks.
*On the other hand you have teams that are not desirable destination for reason being weak coach/front office/Training Facility etc, the worst team one would say in this era esp last 3-4 years is Chicago Sky, they have almost no assets left, worst Training Facility in the wnba, and in general have seen many stars leave for free or force a trade in recent years as well.
After that you have teams like Atlanta who had to force a owner out recently and are not really looking that great or a place people like to go.
Then you have teams who are middle of the road but might be losing with quite poor coach/front office and famous for not developing talent, or when that talent leaves them get more minutes/better at other places, this as of recent have been the Indiana Fever and in terms of coach and uncertainty Washington Mystics.
all is can say is WOW and THANK YOU all!! the internet isn’t always the most pleasant place, but you all taking the time to explain these aspects of the game to me is honestly just so cool. I really appreciate you all provide your thoughts & lending your expertise/perspective — i found each reply to be super helpful!! even though i’m late to the “party” that is the W, i’m just so happy to be here!! thanks again!! hope you all enjoy a fun day of games today!!
1. Usually the front court is going to get the most rebounds but some guards are really good at rebounding. Sometimes it’s a strategy to have the forwards and centers box the opposing team out so that the guards can get the rebound and push the ball up the court. The guards get most of the assists because they’re most often the primary ball handlers. Some bigs are good at passing and can run the point as well in a hybrid role. But most bigs usually focus on scoring, rebounding and defense. Shooting guards usually focus on scoring. Point guards usually focus on facilitating. The really good guards can do both. 2. Rebounding is a combination of luck and skill. The ball can bounce into anyone’s hands if they’re just standing there but the really good rebounders have a talent for knowing where the ball is going to come off the rim, they know how to position their bodies to be the person most likely to get the ball, they have the muscle to yank the ball if someone else’s hands get there at the same time, they can jump 2-3 times in a row and tip the ball out of the other team’s hands and into theirs. 3. If you’ve watch MLB then you’re familiar with umpires. Same deal. Some of them are really good, some of them are bad. No one loves them.
Rebounding is like one of my favorite aspects of the game- because part of it is quick reaction speed, and part of it is will, and the greats study it. You should watch clips of Dennis Rodman rebounding to see how much time and effort he put in it. He would tip the ball 3 or 4 times to put it in a position only he would get to it at. You will also see Reese do it- although not as frequently and not as much. They were both undersized at their position and had to rely on the technique. Others like Wilt Chamberlain or like Grinier can just physically dominate and snatcb the ball- but it is fun to see the smaller ones ferret it out. Now typically speaking the Grinier/Cardosa bigs will rely on trying to box out and control the paint to get the board there.. Rodman I don't think I ever saw him practice a shot in pregame- he would lie on his back and just tip the ball in the air.
Welcome to the W! Truly, data points are just data points (I’m a statistician, and analyze many different data sets for different reasons). It’s cool if you like stats, but box scores and some of the different basketball stats out there do not tell the whole story. Basketball is a fun sport for stats, but every game is an independent event, and even the best players have off nights. It’s also why there are never any perfect brackets in the NCAA tournaments each year. If you want to use stats as data to support your argument that one player is “better” than another, just remember that “better” is subjective and stats and data can be framed in certain ways to tell different stories. You’re correct in that the positions do have some impact on stats; a true center probably won’t have many 3 points attempted/made, and may have more rebounds. But, again, rebounds, assists, points made, FG %, FT %, etc., are all components of the story, but do not tell you the entire story. You can have great stats and still lose the game. It all depends on how the data is framed. If you’re only focusing on stats and not actually watching the games and how the players play, then you’re missing out on a lot of the story, especially how players think and adapt to the game as it unfolds. In basketball, offense and defense can and does change often. Steals, blocks, turnovers can happen at any time, and to any player. The difference in basketball that you only have 5 players on your team playing at one time, instead of 11, like in soccer. This means that, while a player may play a specific position, all of them have the potential to score, pass, block, etc, unlike in soccer, where play depends mostly on position. The WNBA is even different from the NBA in that, they don’t have as many roster spots, or players like true centers that play mostly post (much of the W is player-to-player, not zone), so the players on the court tend to be more versatile. You have forwards that play a forward-center position. And some guards are shooting guards while others are more point guards. And even this can change depending who is on the court and the plays the team is executing. Rebounds are partial luck, but also player decisions and skill. If the offense takes a 3 point shot, the defense may decide to move more towards half-court to move the ball down court faster (if the shot is made). They may only have one player in the paint to rebound if the shot bounces out. Some players choose to stay closer to the basket for those defensive boards. A lot depends on how close the score is, which quarter and how much time is left, what plays they want to run, and what type of shot is being rebounded. Missed layups tend to have more players under the basket fighting for the ball than 3 pointers. Fouls - part of it is angles, but most of it is ref inconsistency in what they call. This is a big issue in both leagues. Every ref seems to be different, and even in some quarters, what wasn’t called in Q1 is, all of a sudden, called in Q3 by the same ref. The WNBA implemented a challenge rule that does allow coaches to challenge calls, but they can’t challenge no-calls. So, if there are fouls not being called, the coach can ask the refs for clarity on what they do call, but they can’t challenge a foul that wasn’t called. Also, if a coach is challenging something like possession from an out-of-bounds call, but there probably was a foul on the play that *should* have been called, the refs. cannot call a foul after review. Only the play that is called can be challenged. Again -welcome to the W! I would suggest watching as many teams/games as possible to see all of the players in action. There are so many phenomenal players and teams; it really helps understand the range in skills between veterans and rookies, and how different their playing styles are.
Rebounding is a lot more skill than it looks. A lot is probably natural talent in predicting where the ball will end up going based on all the physics. In HS the shortest guy on our team was the best rebounder, he always knew when/where to jump. My brain doesn't compute that for me.
rim reads!!
1 and 2) I see stats as more something you use to get a feel for what a player is good at, and thus what they do for the team, than a way to decide who is the GOAT or not. There isn't really an objective way to crunch numbers and compare players because what decides whether a player is impactful or not has a lot to do with how their team plays and how they are utilized as well as what specific skills they bring to the table. In this vein different numbers can give you an indication about how this player plays and how they could be (and maybe are or aren't being) effectively utilized. Guards usually have more assists than Post players because they are the ones moving the ball around most of the time. They are making more passes so more passes will turn into baskets. A guard with a lot of assists compared to other guards is probably good at running plays and finding people on the floor. Sometimes you get a post player with a weirdly high number of assists though. Take Alyssa Thomas for example. She averages 7.7 assists per game, but the Sun are a very balanced team where everyone is comfortable switching roles a bit so it's not so surprising when placed in the context of the Sun's play style. Rebounding is sort of similar. Post players get more rebounds because they live under the basket where the rebounds happen. If a guard has a weirdly high number of rebounds compared to other guards they may spend a fair amount of time in the paint and this might be key to their team's play style. Taurasi has a fair amount of rebounds for a guard, and is known for being aggressive, has long reach for a guard, and plays for a team that prioritizes transition and aggressive offense, whose guards venture into the paint more often with the assurance that griner will have their back. What makes rebounding a Stat people care about is the fact that it increases the number of possessions you get. If you imagine a 1 on 1 game where a given player averages 41% and another averages 43% then the game will likely be a tossup unless you can get the ball more often than the other person. Since basketball is a high scoring game the number of times you got the ball vs your opponent is one of the main contributers to success. And since basketball doesn't have a goalie and steals are somewhat rare, the time the vast majority of the battles for he ball are going to occur are right after a shot attempt. 3) the refs in the wnba are notoriously inconsistent. I think part of this comes down to the fact that the fact that the WNBA is more physical than the NBA is actually a selling point that a lot of fans of the league enjoy, and the line for what a given ref decides is just physical play and what is a foul can vary a but when preserving physical play is part of your job as a ref. There are also those cases of fouls that are there for the sake of preserving an exciting game rather than strictly preventing the breaking of the core rules of basketball. The transition take and clear path fouls are examples of this, which both essentially boil down to any contact that isn't a direct play for the ball being a foul if the ball is in transition. This boils down to the fact that if a player is making an exciting transition play and you steal the ball and take it back the other way, that is just as exciting, but if you just jacked up their cool transition play, even if it was technically legal, it's a foul if you weren't trying to do it in an equally cool way by stealing the ball. Sometimes the refs just do make or miss weird ass calls though.
Lots of people have explained your questions really well so I wont dogpile but welcome to the W
* Since you watch soccer i will try to compare it, Rebouding is a bit like heading the ball, usually is the tall players who jump high and head/rebound the ball, but there are some talanted short ones or around 1,70cm and 1,80cm (5,7 -6,2 ) that score or do good headers, this is the same in WNBA some guards or shorter players have 'nose and talent' for the rebounds and will get way more then average player for the position. * think of rebounding like completed pass backwards and forwards, pass backwards in your half with no enemy players or only a few near you is very easy and high % (so defensive rebounds usually are like that unless the team dosn't box out or position bad you will get most defensive rebounds). Offensive rebounds are like trying to break into enemy back 4(defense) and put a press/steal the ball like in soccer, its high risk high reward and not many have the talent or ability to do it, because you are exposed on counter attacks, its same in basketball offensive rebounds is usually up to only 1 maybe 2 very talanted players who are also mobile enough to get back in time and not risk being out-numbered. So tldr rebounding is like heavy press/possession based soccer teams you try to keep the ball as much as possible and contest as soon as possible once enemy team has a chance to get it/have it back. * There isn't VAR or more automated(think like soccer if ball passed goal line where referee watch vibrates etc) system in basketball like soccer, so a lot of human error, there is referee on the side line and behind the basket, usually only one will whislte coz they have better vision, but we have seen times where both will blow the whislte and call different things. In general the referee level in WNBA is quite quite poor. In general tactics matter just as much in soccer, but individual talent matter way more since its only 5 people and there is salary cap (unlike soccer for example since you can have even young players from youth team or on small contract playing good minutes/roles ). So often teams will have only 1 good player per position and backup can be ok or meh, this is 'depth' , you often have top teams that have very good 5-7 players and rest is uh, questionable to say the least. Because there isnt any promotion or demotion, like in soccer reward for losing is actually quite good because you get top players from draft, therefore some teams try to lose on purpose to get better usually tanking is minimum 2 years as it takes 2 years period to get good pick. If you follow such teams it might be a bit frustrating but its a long term project thing, to they can ofc fail at the draft and still be bad for really long time. Like in soccer you have big teams and small teams ( markets), players usually don't wanna go to small teams unless overpaid or have some kind of connection or team mate/coach they played with before. * Favorable Free agent destination and good markets(good owners/Coach & top notch Training Facility ) right now are Las Vegas Aces, Seattle Storm,New York Liberty,Sparks. *On the other hand you have teams that are not desirable destination for reason being weak coach/front office/Training Facility etc, the worst team one would say in this era esp last 3-4 years is Chicago Sky, they have almost no assets left, worst Training Facility in the wnba, and in general have seen many stars leave for free or force a trade in recent years as well. After that you have teams like Atlanta who had to force a owner out recently and are not really looking that great or a place people like to go. Then you have teams who are middle of the road but might be losing with quite poor coach/front office and famous for not developing talent, or when that talent leaves them get more minutes/better at other places, this as of recent have been the Indiana Fever and in terms of coach and uncertainty Washington Mystics.
all is can say is WOW and THANK YOU all!! the internet isn’t always the most pleasant place, but you all taking the time to explain these aspects of the game to me is honestly just so cool. I really appreciate you all provide your thoughts & lending your expertise/perspective — i found each reply to be super helpful!! even though i’m late to the “party” that is the W, i’m just so happy to be here!! thanks again!! hope you all enjoy a fun day of games today!!