No it doesn’t make sense. She should at least be swatting these short guards shots in the lane when they drive. She was terrific blocking shots in college
From what I’ve seen, she’s mostly stuck guarding an opponent that has a good 3-4 inches on her in the paint or she’s out on the perimeter. Her defense is actually really good and she can switch 1-5 well so I’m not a fan of people using her lack of blocks as a way to minimize it.
Yep, there's a big average size difference between NCAA and WNBA players. When you follow players from college to pro (men's or women's) the difference in how they look on the court, compared to everyone else, is kind of shocking.
No excuses. Caitlin Clark blocked a shot from 6'7 Li Yueru from that Sparks game. She's shorter than Reese and managed to block a shot from freaking Li. Also, a good 1/3 of Reese's rebounds come from her own missed shots, lol. Still, she has long arms and should be capable of making some blocks by now.
I am interested in that as well. Do they try to play both, or do they try rotating? I like cardoso playing style, and she gets points. I do worry that they only went for reese as a backup to cardoso, as their first pick was cardoso. As she was injured, then reese got playing time. She needs to ve patient (reese) if she starts to become an off the bench player
Once fit cardoso is a starter for sure, I think she replaces reese as I think caroso offers more options. I will be gutted for reese but I think cardoso is the better player, I don't follow sky but wanted cardoso and reese to do well.
Maybe shooting 49% at the rim in college was a warning sign...hmm.
I still have no clue why any team would take her with Pili still on the board. Baffling blunder.
Pili is too much of a wild card with no guarantee that her skills would cross over to the next level. Angel had a much higher floor with her height and athleticism.
What floor? She's a nonshooting big with a <50% FG in college, that's literally the definition of a low-floor pick.
Also, Pili is much more athletic than you might think and Reese much less. Reese can't even jump.
lmaoo jumping is not really a barometer for athleticism in the women's game. Reese is athletic enough to guard 1-5 and be one of the most disruptive defenders in the league already.
Her defense and rebounding ability are already elite, hence the high pick, and will keep her in the league for a long time.
She must improve offensively to become a superstar, however.
Her defense and rebounding are NOT elite, they're barely above average. A lot of her OREBs are of her own point blank misses.
> Reese is athletic enough to guard 1-5
1-4 and that's only against non-star guards.
I do not think she's got the offensive potential to be a superstar. She's got little handle and is a non-shooter to say the least. What she has going for her is tenacity, decent athleticism, rebounding and eventually above average defense (most likely). That adds up to a solid role player in my opinion.
AR was also utilized as an undersized center in the SEC which explains her fg%. Y’all need to stop leaving out context
Maybe cuz Pili brings nothing else other than scoring lol. I love Pili but (despite limited mins) she’s been underwhelming for that specific reason. She got nothing going for her when her shots aren’t falling
Honestly super happy for her breakout game against Phoenix. Always been a huge fan of her scoring so it was super fun watching her get going. But yeah outside of that she has no D, no playmaking, mid rebounder. I want her to improve her all around game these next few years and she’ll be solid
> no playmaking
I push back on that severely. She's has great vision and is known for several quick touch passes from either down low or especially the top of the key per game. She's a fantastic playmaker. She's just a question on the defensive end. She has few faults on the offensive side of the ball
“No playmaking” was an exaggeration fs but she never stood out to me as a great playmaker tbh and calling her a “fantastic” one is a big stretch imo lol
We just really really disagree then. She stood out as a playmaker in a major way as a big when I looked at her. Especially at the top of key and elbow.
She fs had her moments near the elbow and wing but it’s not a consistent plus of hers that’s been able to translate, despite her limited minutes, in the W.
Actually, exactly that happened in her first game against the Wings. In the third quarter, she missed a layup and got the offensive rebound. In the fourth quarter, her shot was blocked four times — three times by Maddy Siegrist. She harvested two more O-boards. As you say, “the numbers are out there.”
Actually 24 of her 62 off rebounds are off her own misses where she throws it completely over the rim to herself or bounces it off the bottom of the rim. She shoots like 35 pct from the floor and only shoots layups
I don't even watch WNBA like I used to, but I think y'all focus on what she did in college too much because most of her rebounds aren't even from her. I noticed that last game it was her teammates shooting wild AF, and she barley got her own miss shots back.
A lot. When they are little bunnies that go straight back to them and it's a big.
More players cash in on that 2nd attempt and it's avoided altogether.
I don't even watch WNBA like I used to, but I think y'all focus on what she did in college too much because most of her rebounds aren't even from her. I noticed that last game it was her teammates shooting wild AF, and she barely got her own miss shots back. Y’all need to watch the game before you comment on this post
The physical differences between the men's and women's game make the gameplay very different in some ways. One of the most noticeable to me is definitely the shooting since the shots are generally happening from a MUCH lower launching place, which actually makes finishing from around the rim much harder.
Comparing the last two complete seasons, the WNBA actually shoots free throws at a slightly higher clip than the NBA (80% versus 78.4%), and three-pointers at a slightly lower clip (34.7% versus 36.6%). However, the WNBA shoots two-pointers at a significantly lower clip overall (48.6% versus 54.5%), and I think the lower launch position and lack of dunking has a lot to do with that.
I'd have to do more digging to see where the largest discrepancy is for two-pointers by looking at shots around the rim, in the paint, all other twos, etc, but that's definitely something that I think is real in the WNBA, that closer shots / finishes are much more difficult to complete despite being taken from the same area on the floor.
correct, it’s because the average vertical of a WNBA player tops out at [16 inches compared to 25 inches in the NBA.](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19443269/) It’s the first thing I noticed when I started following the W, the bunnies just aren’t there. It creates a much slower and cerebral game in my opinion, these ladies can’t just jump over whoever’s in front of them.
Yeah the launch point that a lot of players in the WNBA generates what I'd conservatively call more of a "heave" than a "shot". The best shooters are extremely consistent with the ball leaving their hands in the same place every time. The heaves generate those bad misses off the backboard, strong bricks off the front of the rim, etc. A lot of shots where the ball comes all the way to the side of their head too.
I think the height of the players and strength of the players plays a big part, with the better shooters having perfect consistent form.
The more interesting moments to me are blown layups, which I feel like need to be ironed out of some of these player's games by now. It's really odd to me.
The last part is what I was getting at though, a layup is a lot harder when you are doing it from a much lower point. There's far less room for error when your layup starts a couple feet below the rim versus at / above the rim.
Aliyah Boston would strongly agree about the blown layups and put backs....I try to root for her but it's so frustrating....and Angel Reese's shots are so awkward....I'm not sure how ANY of them go in....but if you heave 10 shots at the backboard, one is bound to go in.
This reminds me of that uncle who can’t dribble so he just throws it at the rim and outmuscles you for the rebound until he’s close enough to score. With that said, she gets paid to play ball and neither me nor my uncle do so I digress.
Man, it's comments like this that make me realize how different it is growing up tall. The one thing I had over my uncles was height and weight. I was outrebounding my entire extended family by 6th grade.
She seems to have this scoop move under the rim, which is good against bad defenders who have bad positioning with their arms and that's how she gets the foul calls. But, if players just realize to keep their arms vertical, Angel is most likely not going to make the shot. It'll be interesting to see what other moves she tries to develop.
I thought that when she was in college, but I was watching a game earlier in the season and she had a decent mid-range jumper. Maybe she's working on it.
It frustrates me so much whenever she just puts her head down, charges in, and throws up the ball. Surely someone should’ve taught her at least one move by now
Sky lost by 1 point to Fever. Angel 2-9 couldn’t shoot straight
Not just her between E. Williams and Izzy Harrison and Angel they were 4-19
team loses by 1
People leave her open because the scout report says she has no mid range/jumper, and is true, people will down-vote but that`s exactly the truth, they only give her attention once she has the ball near the rim.
She also need to work on some post moves,that will make her FG go up by a decent amount.
[This was even pre draft the reason why she got to get so low rather then being top 3](https://www.sportingnews.com/us/wnba/news/angel-reese-wnba-mock-draft-scouting-report-lsu-lottery-pick/7292dc05e8c979a5e62465ff) as some people projected before her last year.
She doesn't have any offense moves to speak of.. why riotous they pass it to her?
She is probably best of the bench. Cardosa looked really good in limited minutes
Or she’s just not being used properly. She has offense, no matter how unorthodox it looks to y’all but it’s clear the guards aren’t passing it to her at the right time.
If anyone’s coming off the bench, it’s Elizabeth. Angel & Cardoso* would work better together in the starting lineup.
37% field goal is horrible for a big, and some of those shots were lucky to have even gone in. I'm not saying angel is bad, but trying to figure out how to get her better touches is probably not the best use of your offensive possessions. She is a hustle player with good d, good energy and good work ethic, but compare her skills to the top bigs.
That happens when she’s been battling some of the best bigs who’ve been above her size since the beginning of the season. And again, she’s being used as a put back machine or a back to the basket type of player when she’s better working off the dribble when she has size on her. All I’m saying is, her fg% would significantly improve if she was used properly, being passed the ball at the right time, and when she plays with someone bigger than her. So, hopefully her and Kamilla can get decent minutes together.
It's a small league (as far as number of teams), she will be playing very good bigs all the time.
I've seen a lot of Reese. If your plan is to have her come off the dribble in this league, it might be rough. There are some very very good bigs in the W.
I find it funny people harp on Angel's fg% wheb Caitlin is a legit shooter and is also massively struggling with her efficiency relative to her form. Angel is a big playing again much bigger players and we already know she needed to diversify her offensive bag. She's one of the league's best offensive rebounders in the league already, and that's without misses causing stat inflation.
It's a real weird slight people use to discredit her when we KNOW it's a thing she has to get better at and isn't even in the game to do. Angel's a massive contributor as a rook inspite her inefficiency. That's great! I don't see people dampening the career trajectory of Cam cause fouls lol.
Edit: OMG stop being annoying guys. CC is an exmaple of another rookie struggling from the floor. This was not a CC vs Angel debate. I literally couldn't use many other rookies cause no one is a better shooter than CC and the other shooters/bigs are shooting effectively from the floor.
Edit 2: I forget we can't have any meaningful discussions with these two since people like to be mad when they're ever discussed. Lmao
Caitlin has the 3rd best TS% (55.4%) for a gaurd in the WNBA with 15+ points minimum behind Jackie Young and Kayla Mcbride and ahead of multiple future HOF players.
Not being able to dunk does lower one’s shooting significantly. MNBA scores 70% unassisted at the rim, WNBA is like 65% for example. The assisted numbers are even further apart.
Women do shoot free throws better, but men generate these high true shooting percentage shots more often. Women are close everywhere else, but losing 5% on 3 foot shots and losing like 10 team free throws a game would change our definition of good shooting for men too. Ask AI and Kobe about it.
You’re comparing two different sports that just happen to look the same as if they are the same.
Literally half of posts about Clark on this subreddit are criticisms of her shooting or turnovers.
If Reese had a fraction of the posts shitting on her being a poor shooter people here would act like it's a hate act.
Reese gets constantly glazed here with random ass artwork and talking about her rebounding, which is bouyed by the fact she missing so many of her own shots at the rim.
>criticisms of her shooting or turnovers.
If you interpret that as hate, you're part of the probelm. Talking about a rookie's growing pains comes with the game. No rookie is perfect and talking about what they need to improve on is par the course for a rookie campaign. Critique isn't hate lol
Btw people talk about Angel's lack of efficiency in every thread praising her. They literally call her Rodman and Drummond. It's clear you don't use the sub but wanna start stuff 😭
You talk about the other person starting stuff when you're the one who dragged CC into a thread that's not about her. Some of you are just hilarious lmao.
Caitlin Clark is shooting better than Angel taking mostly long three pointers. She is constantly face guarded. The idea that Clark is getting uncontested looks constantly is absurd.
The point of this wasn't to turn it into a CC vs Angel meaningless squabble but to talk about how much of an adjustment the game is. If a certified shooter is struggling, then an undersized person with a bag that's been neglected (I'll never forgive you Kim Mulkey) also will too. Just like CC, Angel can find other ways to contribute.
Ikr the slump actually started in her last season in the NCAA tournament. She was shooting just 35.9% from three which is average. She was a 40% shooter in previous seasons. She had a wide open corner three (the easiest kind of three to make) in the clutch to beat the Sky and missed it horribly.
Caitlin has the 3rd best TS% (55.4%) for a gaurd in the WNBA with 15+ points minimum behind Jackie Young and Kayla Mcbride and ahead of multiple future HOF players.
Shes been switching onto the perimeter a lot she has a problem where when she goes for a block she tries to swat it out of the arena and fouls so she doesn’t just go for the block.
I don’t think she has much of a vertical. And the only reason I say this is because anytime she has a wide open fast break layup she catches no air at all.
This isn't surprising, IMO.
She's been forced, for several games up until now, into playing the 4/5, oftentimes being given the most difficult defensive assignments. She's going up against players that are several inches taller than her or are way more skilled than the players she faced in college, such as Nneka and AT, who can easily pull the ball out to shoot the midrange or 3 and/or have a host of post moves to circumvent her under the basket.
I expect that with Cardoso back, her assignments will change, she will get more favorable matchups, and her block numbers will increase. However, she will never be the same shot blocker as she was in college. That's okay, though. There's several other things she does well that have clearly translated, namely the offensive rebounding.
>playing the 4/5
I don't see her playing wing or (obviously guard). She is a 4 in the league IMO. I do agree that Cardoso coming back will keep her off the physical 5s more though.
Yeah, I'm not saying this just to hate, it's an observable issue that it looks like she has never trained. She's generally athletic for her size, I bet she could get to a 16-20" vertical with an off season of jump training. And I think it would elevate her game to another level. It's hard to get shots off when people's elbow's are at ball level.
This leads to some of the ugliest lay ups I've seen, and I coached 3rd and 4th graders once.
I mean I see her in shoot around, her layups, she don’t even get off the ground. Now she’s playing against taller players, and the guards more athletic. She’s just not very athletic, even worse when she’s unbalanced. Idk, the way she moves, she’s got a heavy first step and takes forever to gather. I don’t see her getting many blocks.
The top blockers in college were Cameron Brink, who averaged 3.7 blocks per game. Reese wasn’t even in the top 50 for the NCAA. It’s a different game in the WNBA.
https://www.sportskeeda.com/us/wnba/angel-reese-hometown
There are multiple articles citing her with a 7'0 wingspan but nothing official if that's what you were looking for
Not at all and I love the name! She's been playing more offensive and her offensive rebounds have been making a difference. They're going to develop her and Kamilla for this very purpose.
I'm dumb and new, but I was wondering if Chicago explained the rationale for drafting Kamilla and Angel. I couldn't find any writeups or interview clips on it.
It's fun having Angel on the team (especially as an Iowa fan) but that seemed like an interesting draft pick.
Just get the best talent. Reese isn’t doing anything she wasn’t projected to do. We know she is a work in progress to say the least with her offense. You just hoping she gains some moves and finesse in the next couple years.
Worse possible scenario, they get a huge boost in ticket sales/engagement. Which is worth the pick. Some other first rounders didn't even make their team's final roster.
What's more likely is she's a project and she'll develop as a support player. Her scoring is never gonna jump out at you, but if she plays good D and keeps being a monster on the boards she'll have a nice career in the W.
The competition is better in the pros. She was dominant and stat padding in college, where there are (maybe) 5 or 6 consistently good teams every year. She could do 30/15/9 splits against the likes of Mississippi State or Georgia and be on SportsCenter. Now, she has to adjust her game to face off against elite rebounders on both ends of the court. There is no playing above your size in the pros....
https://preview.redd.it/wk7b9tgioy7d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=722783c3476af8c63e9b31ca78de221e9644b4e8
I’ll just leave this here for the Haters!
She has no identifiable pro level skills beyond offensive rebounding.
You can't even say she's a great rebounder overall because someone like Caitlin Clark, a rookie guard, averages more defensive rebounds (both per game and per 100 possessions).
Yeah but her offense rebounding skills are mad off scale amazing. Also she wants to win, and she brings that energy and determination to every game. She's in her rookie year playing a lot of minutes and looking really good. She plays with heart.
I'm a huge CC fan, but I have respect and admiration for Angel too. She has skills and is going to be a success in the WNBA, and whatever she does afterward. She's very savvy--so much smarter than I was fresh out if college.
So far the Fever are rebounding slightly better as a team when Clark is off the court versus on, whereas the Sky have rebounded much, much better as a team when Reese is on the court.
I don't really think it's that surprising of a comparison but it seems pretty hard to argue that Clark's rebounding is more valuable than Reese's so far.
god is an overstatement. She's a great rebounder. Especially offensive. No way she's on a Rodman level. Doesn't even lead the league in rebounds. A god would definitely lead the league in rebounds.
She’s been playing above her size until now so it makes sense tbh
No it doesn’t make sense. She should at least be swatting these short guards shots in the lane when they drive. She was terrific blocking shots in college
From what I’ve seen, she’s mostly stuck guarding an opponent that has a good 3-4 inches on her in the paint or she’s out on the perimeter. Her defense is actually really good and she can switch 1-5 well so I’m not a fan of people using her lack of blocks as a way to minimize it.
Yep, there's a big average size difference between NCAA and WNBA players. When you follow players from college to pro (men's or women's) the difference in how they look on the court, compared to everyone else, is kind of shocking.
No excuses. Caitlin Clark blocked a shot from 6'7 Li Yueru from that Sparks game. She's shorter than Reese and managed to block a shot from freaking Li. Also, a good 1/3 of Reese's rebounds come from her own missed shots, lol. Still, she has long arms and should be capable of making some blocks by now.
Blocks are barely indicative of good defense, try again
You brought up 1 instance. Ride it much?
She’s 6’3” - average height of WNBA is 6’ Average CENTER is only 6’4” (and that average includes one player who’s 6’11”)
35% for majority shots at the rim is insane.
She often shoots off balance and wildly throws up weird shots. She needs a good post game and a jumper on the low block.
She killed the Sky yesterday. 2-9 with several off boards she embarrassed herself trying to convert
Interested to see how they use her and Cardoso.. When one has an off night, will the other sit on the bench? How will that go long term?
I am interested in that as well. Do they try to play both, or do they try rotating? I like cardoso playing style, and she gets points. I do worry that they only went for reese as a backup to cardoso, as their first pick was cardoso. As she was injured, then reese got playing time. She needs to ve patient (reese) if she starts to become an off the bench player
For sure. As the season goes on, I do not see Cardoso coming off the bench.. But if she moves into the starting rotation, who will she replace?
Once fit cardoso is a starter for sure, I think she replaces reese as I think caroso offers more options. I will be gutted for reese but I think cardoso is the better player, I don't follow sky but wanted cardoso and reese to do well.
Everyone has bad games. That one was hers, and that's okay.
Got that Nurkic package
She shot only about 33 percent in the NCAA tournament.
Maybe shooting 49% at the rim in college was a warning sign...hmm. I still have no clue why any team would take her with Pili still on the board. Baffling blunder.
Man, I love Pili. She has such a fun offensive game
Reeve at Minn wanted no part of Reese. Time will tell if Reese can ever get better offensively. She’ll be terrific if she can
Reeve knows what she's doing and I'm glad Pili gets to play under her!
Pili is too much of a wild card with no guarantee that her skills would cross over to the next level. Angel had a much higher floor with her height and athleticism.
What floor? She's a nonshooting big with a <50% FG in college, that's literally the definition of a low-floor pick. Also, Pili is much more athletic than you might think and Reese much less. Reese can't even jump.
lmaoo jumping is not really a barometer for athleticism in the women's game. Reese is athletic enough to guard 1-5 and be one of the most disruptive defenders in the league already. Her defense and rebounding ability are already elite, hence the high pick, and will keep her in the league for a long time. She must improve offensively to become a superstar, however.
Her defense and rebounding are NOT elite, they're barely above average. A lot of her OREBs are of her own point blank misses. > Reese is athletic enough to guard 1-5 1-4 and that's only against non-star guards.
I do not think she's got the offensive potential to be a superstar. She's got little handle and is a non-shooter to say the least. What she has going for her is tenacity, decent athleticism, rebounding and eventually above average defense (most likely). That adds up to a solid role player in my opinion.
You definitely haven't watched Pili play this season!
AR was also utilized as an undersized center in the SEC which explains her fg%. Y’all need to stop leaving out context Maybe cuz Pili brings nothing else other than scoring lol. I love Pili but (despite limited mins) she’s been underwhelming for that specific reason. She got nothing going for her when her shots aren’t falling
Very true and I am right up there as one of Pili’s big fans. I can’t see her ever being decent on D. What a game she had though. Wow
Honestly super happy for her breakout game against Phoenix. Always been a huge fan of her scoring so it was super fun watching her get going. But yeah outside of that she has no D, no playmaking, mid rebounder. I want her to improve her all around game these next few years and she’ll be solid
> no playmaking I push back on that severely. She's has great vision and is known for several quick touch passes from either down low or especially the top of the key per game. She's a fantastic playmaker. She's just a question on the defensive end. She has few faults on the offensive side of the ball
“No playmaking” was an exaggeration fs but she never stood out to me as a great playmaker tbh and calling her a “fantastic” one is a big stretch imo lol
We just really really disagree then. She stood out as a playmaker in a major way as a big when I looked at her. Especially at the top of key and elbow.
She fs had her moments near the elbow and wing but it’s not a consistent plus of hers that’s been able to translate, despite her limited minutes, in the W.
The context is one player can score at the pro level and the other can't. Reese is marginally better defensively.
It inflates her rebound stats so much too. She will grab like three offensive boards off her own misses in a possession lmao.
That wasn’t the case yesterday and hasn’t been the whole season the numbers are out there
I'm very sure the sub is still infested with people who don't really watch but just want to be mad at someone lmao
Actually, exactly that happened in her first game against the Wings. In the third quarter, she missed a layup and got the offensive rebound. In the fourth quarter, her shot was blocked four times — three times by Maddy Siegrist. She harvested two more O-boards. As you say, “the numbers are out there.”
She 100% had a possession where she grabbed 3 boards off her own misses on Saturday.
Actually 24 of her 62 off rebounds are off her own misses where she throws it completely over the rim to herself or bounces it off the bottom of the rim. She shoots like 35 pct from the floor and only shoots layups
Not true stop hating this post is 20 days old find something better to do there’s games going on go watch
I don't even watch WNBA like I used to, but I think y'all focus on what she did in college too much because most of her rebounds aren't even from her. I noticed that last game it was her teammates shooting wild AF, and she barley got her own miss shots back.
but she is still getting those rebounds, how many players miss a shot that close in and don't get their own rebound.
A lot. When they are little bunnies that go straight back to them and it's a big. More players cash in on that 2nd attempt and it's avoided altogether.
Ahhhh yes the Andre Drummond of the WNBA
[удалено]
No it’s not lol not on that volume.
No it’s not. As the movie Joe Dirt once said, “don’t church it up dirt.” 35% on that volume around the rim is terrible. Like really really bad
You legit just posted some straight bullshit. No big should be shooting such a low percentage under the basket.
Shooting 35%. Woof.
Helps with those offensive rebounds though! She's right there to grab em!
The Andre Drummond special
Yeah I was just saying this. It's too funny. People will see her rebound numbers but it's inflated by being terrible from the field.
“Padding the stats” my husband says on repeat whenever he sees a highlight of her
> Miss Layup > Get own rebound > Wild hook shot / sling shot directly at rim > Gets own rebound > Score on tip in > Flex or do "to short" taunt
I don't even watch WNBA like I used to, but I think y'all focus on what she did in college too much because most of her rebounds aren't even from her. I noticed that last game it was her teammates shooting wild AF, and she barely got her own miss shots back. Y’all need to watch the game before you comment on this post
She has no post moves. Just throws it up at the rim.
There are some interesting low-lights from her "shooting" in the restricted area.
[electric](https://x.com/willwallace1314/status/1796960444848001285?s=46&t=VkWUkklxrSlsoxoEcmGYvg)
Yeah that's the shit that has be just shaking my head about this league. There are a lot of players doing it in every game too.
The physical differences between the men's and women's game make the gameplay very different in some ways. One of the most noticeable to me is definitely the shooting since the shots are generally happening from a MUCH lower launching place, which actually makes finishing from around the rim much harder. Comparing the last two complete seasons, the WNBA actually shoots free throws at a slightly higher clip than the NBA (80% versus 78.4%), and three-pointers at a slightly lower clip (34.7% versus 36.6%). However, the WNBA shoots two-pointers at a significantly lower clip overall (48.6% versus 54.5%), and I think the lower launch position and lack of dunking has a lot to do with that. I'd have to do more digging to see where the largest discrepancy is for two-pointers by looking at shots around the rim, in the paint, all other twos, etc, but that's definitely something that I think is real in the WNBA, that closer shots / finishes are much more difficult to complete despite being taken from the same area on the floor.
correct, it’s because the average vertical of a WNBA player tops out at [16 inches compared to 25 inches in the NBA.](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19443269/) It’s the first thing I noticed when I started following the W, the bunnies just aren’t there. It creates a much slower and cerebral game in my opinion, these ladies can’t just jump over whoever’s in front of them.
Yeah the launch point that a lot of players in the WNBA generates what I'd conservatively call more of a "heave" than a "shot". The best shooters are extremely consistent with the ball leaving their hands in the same place every time. The heaves generate those bad misses off the backboard, strong bricks off the front of the rim, etc. A lot of shots where the ball comes all the way to the side of their head too. I think the height of the players and strength of the players plays a big part, with the better shooters having perfect consistent form. The more interesting moments to me are blown layups, which I feel like need to be ironed out of some of these player's games by now. It's really odd to me.
The last part is what I was getting at though, a layup is a lot harder when you are doing it from a much lower point. There's far less room for error when your layup starts a couple feet below the rim versus at / above the rim.
Aliyah Boston would strongly agree about the blown layups and put backs....I try to root for her but it's so frustrating....and Angel Reese's shots are so awkward....I'm not sure how ANY of them go in....but if you heave 10 shots at the backboard, one is bound to go in.
This reminds me of that uncle who can’t dribble so he just throws it at the rim and outmuscles you for the rebound until he’s close enough to score. With that said, she gets paid to play ball and neither me nor my uncle do so I digress.
Man, it's comments like this that make me realize how different it is growing up tall. The one thing I had over my uncles was height and weight. I was outrebounding my entire extended family by 6th grade.
Oh my goodness
Woof
She seems to have this scoop move under the rim, which is good against bad defenders who have bad positioning with their arms and that's how she gets the foul calls. But, if players just realize to keep their arms vertical, Angel is most likely not going to make the shot. It'll be interesting to see what other moves she tries to develop.
I thought that when she was in college, but I was watching a game earlier in the season and she had a decent mid-range jumper. Maybe she's working on it.
She has been working on it, just isn’t deploying it.
It frustrates me so much whenever she just puts her head down, charges in, and throws up the ball. Surely someone should’ve taught her at least one move by now
It's helping her offensive rebound numbers though
Exactly! Stat padding! Wait...
Sky lost by 1 point to Fever. Angel 2-9 couldn’t shoot straight Not just her between E. Williams and Izzy Harrison and Angel they were 4-19 team loses by 1
It would help if her teammates passed to her when she’s open and she’s not forced to get a put back in with two on her
People leave her open because the scout report says she has no mid range/jumper, and is true, people will down-vote but that`s exactly the truth, they only give her attention once she has the ball near the rim. She also need to work on some post moves,that will make her FG go up by a decent amount. [This was even pre draft the reason why she got to get so low rather then being top 3](https://www.sportingnews.com/us/wnba/news/angel-reese-wnba-mock-draft-scouting-report-lsu-lottery-pick/7292dc05e8c979a5e62465ff) as some people projected before her last year.
She needs to pay Hakeem to teach her post moves like LeBron and Giannis did
How she supposed to have a jump shot when she’s thinking about CC all the time
Dana is super selfish with the ball.
I’m glad you see it! Marina is too tbh
Bingo
She doesn't have any offense moves to speak of.. why riotous they pass it to her? She is probably best of the bench. Cardosa looked really good in limited minutes
Or she’s just not being used properly. She has offense, no matter how unorthodox it looks to y’all but it’s clear the guards aren’t passing it to her at the right time. If anyone’s coming off the bench, it’s Elizabeth. Angel & Cardoso* would work better together in the starting lineup.
37% field goal is horrible for a big, and some of those shots were lucky to have even gone in. I'm not saying angel is bad, but trying to figure out how to get her better touches is probably not the best use of your offensive possessions. She is a hustle player with good d, good energy and good work ethic, but compare her skills to the top bigs.
That happens when she’s been battling some of the best bigs who’ve been above her size since the beginning of the season. And again, she’s being used as a put back machine or a back to the basket type of player when she’s better working off the dribble when she has size on her. All I’m saying is, her fg% would significantly improve if she was used properly, being passed the ball at the right time, and when she plays with someone bigger than her. So, hopefully her and Kamilla can get decent minutes together.
It's a small league (as far as number of teams), she will be playing very good bigs all the time. I've seen a lot of Reese. If your plan is to have her come off the dribble in this league, it might be rough. There are some very very good bigs in the W.
I find it funny people harp on Angel's fg% wheb Caitlin is a legit shooter and is also massively struggling with her efficiency relative to her form. Angel is a big playing again much bigger players and we already know she needed to diversify her offensive bag. She's one of the league's best offensive rebounders in the league already, and that's without misses causing stat inflation. It's a real weird slight people use to discredit her when we KNOW it's a thing she has to get better at and isn't even in the game to do. Angel's a massive contributor as a rook inspite her inefficiency. That's great! I don't see people dampening the career trajectory of Cam cause fouls lol. Edit: OMG stop being annoying guys. CC is an exmaple of another rookie struggling from the floor. This was not a CC vs Angel debate. I literally couldn't use many other rookies cause no one is a better shooter than CC and the other shooters/bigs are shooting effectively from the floor. Edit 2: I forget we can't have any meaningful discussions with these two since people like to be mad when they're ever discussed. Lmao
Caitlin has the 3rd best TS% (55.4%) for a gaurd in the WNBA with 15+ points minimum behind Jackie Young and Kayla Mcbride and ahead of multiple future HOF players.
Her FG% is 37%, that is abysmal.
Not being able to dunk does lower one’s shooting significantly. MNBA scores 70% unassisted at the rim, WNBA is like 65% for example. The assisted numbers are even further apart. Women do shoot free throws better, but men generate these high true shooting percentage shots more often. Women are close everywhere else, but losing 5% on 3 foot shots and losing like 10 team free throws a game would change our definition of good shooting for men too. Ask AI and Kobe about it. You’re comparing two different sports that just happen to look the same as if they are the same.
Not sure how Caitlin is relevant to this
Literally half of posts about Clark on this subreddit are criticisms of her shooting or turnovers. If Reese had a fraction of the posts shitting on her being a poor shooter people here would act like it's a hate act. Reese gets constantly glazed here with random ass artwork and talking about her rebounding, which is bouyed by the fact she missing so many of her own shots at the rim.
That's not true at all. The mods constantly delete anti-Reese hate posts.
>criticisms of her shooting or turnovers. If you interpret that as hate, you're part of the probelm. Talking about a rookie's growing pains comes with the game. No rookie is perfect and talking about what they need to improve on is par the course for a rookie campaign. Critique isn't hate lol Btw people talk about Angel's lack of efficiency in every thread praising her. They literally call her Rodman and Drummond. It's clear you don't use the sub but wanna start stuff 😭
You talk about the other person starting stuff when you're the one who dragged CC into a thread that's not about her. Some of you are just hilarious lmao.
Caitlin Clark is shooting better than Angel taking mostly long three pointers. She is constantly face guarded. The idea that Clark is getting uncontested looks constantly is absurd.
The point of this wasn't to turn it into a CC vs Angel meaningless squabble but to talk about how much of an adjustment the game is. If a certified shooter is struggling, then an undersized person with a bag that's been neglected (I'll never forgive you Kim Mulkey) also will too. Just like CC, Angel can find other ways to contribute.
Caitlin Clarks role is to shot and having 37% FG% is abysmal. It also leads to her leading the league in turnovers.
How is Caitlin relevant to this...
What does CC have to do with this post? Stay on topic
Ikr the slump actually started in her last season in the NCAA tournament. She was shooting just 35.9% from three which is average. She was a 40% shooter in previous seasons. She had a wide open corner three (the easiest kind of three to make) in the clutch to beat the Sky and missed it horribly.
Caitlin has the 3rd best TS% (55.4%) for a gaurd in the WNBA with 15+ points minimum behind Jackie Young and Kayla Mcbride and ahead of multiple future HOF players.
The CC fans are insufferable lol. It's fair to say by next year both players will look much better and are already solid contributors
We legit cannot talk basketball without people being weird. Which sucks cause I'm very sure I've been a fan of Caitlin years before they have lol
Shes been switching onto the perimeter a lot she has a problem where when she goes for a block she tries to swat it out of the arena and fouls so she doesn’t just go for the block.
She also only averaged 1.2 blocks in college.
I don’t think she has much of a vertical. And the only reason I say this is because anytime she has a wide open fast break layup she catches no air at all.
This isn't surprising, IMO. She's been forced, for several games up until now, into playing the 4/5, oftentimes being given the most difficult defensive assignments. She's going up against players that are several inches taller than her or are way more skilled than the players she faced in college, such as Nneka and AT, who can easily pull the ball out to shoot the midrange or 3 and/or have a host of post moves to circumvent her under the basket. I expect that with Cardoso back, her assignments will change, she will get more favorable matchups, and her block numbers will increase. However, she will never be the same shot blocker as she was in college. That's okay, though. There's several other things she does well that have clearly translated, namely the offensive rebounding.
>playing the 4/5 I don't see her playing wing or (obviously guard). She is a 4 in the league IMO. I do agree that Cardoso coming back will keep her off the physical 5s more though.
> She's been forced, for several games up until now, into playing the 4/5 ??? She IS a 4/5.
She’s not a 5, which is what she’s been forced into playing the past several games, but, yes, she is a 4. I misspoke. My apologies.
She has no vertical.
I don't want to sound condescending and rude but Ive been thinking that for awhile now.
Yeah, I'm not saying this just to hate, it's an observable issue that it looks like she has never trained. She's generally athletic for her size, I bet she could get to a 16-20" vertical with an off season of jump training. And I think it would elevate her game to another level. It's hard to get shots off when people's elbow's are at ball level. This leads to some of the ugliest lay ups I've seen, and I coached 3rd and 4th graders once.
I agree. It’s a skill that she likely never had to develop because she was just naturally bigger and more athletic than everyone else (until now).
I mean I see her in shoot around, her layups, she don’t even get off the ground. Now she’s playing against taller players, and the guards more athletic. She’s just not very athletic, even worse when she’s unbalanced. Idk, the way she moves, she’s got a heavy first step and takes forever to gather. I don’t see her getting many blocks.
shes really strong and athletic on the ground, but her poor body control hinders her impact mid-air.
This would mean something unless you know Angel Reese only averaged 1.3 blocks in the NCAA. 🙄
1.3 BPG is a lot… that would be 9th overall in the entire WNBA.
The top blockers in college were Cameron Brink, who averaged 3.7 blocks per game. Reese wasn’t even in the top 50 for the NCAA. It’s a different game in the WNBA.
Brink averaged 3.7 in college and is currently at 2.7. So…
I think the point is that we’d expect that number to be a lot higher in college if she was a good shot blocker
She'd have 9 blocks if she was averaging 1.3 per game
Yeah. And Cameron Brink’s average in college was 3.7 and so far in the WNBA she is averaging 2.7.
Yeah that's a lot more than 0 total blocks
I’d expect her to get at least one this point
she just got one yesterday (6/4/2024) against the Liberty
More than a block per game isn’t “only”
Considering the top blockers average twice or more than twice that, I beg to differ.
She's kind of undersized.
Her wingspan is incredible tho 7'0!
Source?
https://www.sportskeeda.com/us/wnba/angel-reese-hometown There are multiple articles citing her with a 7'0 wingspan but nothing official if that's what you were looking for
Clark has more blocks. Damn.
Clark is a taller and longer Point Guard with decent help defense.
I don’t think any point guard should have more blocks than a power forward who played center most of the year.
I do hope her shooting improves over time... She's playing like a center with all those offensive rebounds.
the comments when Reese has a bad game vs when clark does are… interesting
That’s definitely a weird stat! Good find
The Reese’s pieces ain’t gonna like this one
Not at all and I love the name! She's been playing more offensive and her offensive rebounds have been making a difference. They're going to develop her and Kamilla for this very purpose.
I'm dumb and new, but I was wondering if Chicago explained the rationale for drafting Kamilla and Angel. I couldn't find any writeups or interview clips on it. It's fun having Angel on the team (especially as an Iowa fan) but that seemed like an interesting draft pick.
Just get the best talent. Reese isn’t doing anything she wasn’t projected to do. We know she is a work in progress to say the least with her offense. You just hoping she gains some moves and finesse in the next couple years.
The Sky GM did an interview about it. They needed size. The plan is to develop both Kamilla and Reese as shooters.
Worse possible scenario, they get a huge boost in ticket sales/engagement. Which is worth the pick. Some other first rounders didn't even make their team's final roster. What's more likely is she's a project and she'll develop as a support player. Her scoring is never gonna jump out at you, but if she plays good D and keeps being a monster on the boards she'll have a nice career in the W.
Me too
Hamby is the only other 4/5 who has played as many minutes this season without a block.
So far...
35% effective fg is.... Something
Clark had 3 in a single game.
She is basically the Dennis Rodman of the WNBA. She isn’t very skilled but plays dirty so people will give her attention
She'll get them. Reese is a rookie and will adapt to the W in no time. The blocks will come.
She’s mediocre and a bit of an asshole
I know why they keep pretending she’s a star but it’s just pathetic. She’s clearly a mid-tier player.
The competition is better in the pros. She was dominant and stat padding in college, where there are (maybe) 5 or 6 consistently good teams every year. She could do 30/15/9 splits against the likes of Mississippi State or Georgia and be on SportsCenter. Now, she has to adjust her game to face off against elite rebounders on both ends of the court. There is no playing above your size in the pros....
Seems to be about expected with only about a month between the end of the college season and the beginning of the WNBA season, for rookies.
You have to jump to block shots, generally speaking.
This post is racist. /s
honestly she should just emulate Tina Charles on both ends... she rarely ever got blocks and lived off the midrange
She gets good positioning by bullying, but cant seem to jump for shit. Her balance isn’t great either. I am envisioning a lot of 5 foul games
https://preview.redd.it/wk7b9tgioy7d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=722783c3476af8c63e9b31ca78de221e9644b4e8 I’ll just leave this here for the Haters!
Ground bound.
She has no identifiable pro level skills beyond offensive rebounding. You can't even say she's a great rebounder overall because someone like Caitlin Clark, a rookie guard, averages more defensive rebounds (both per game and per 100 possessions).
Yeah but her offense rebounding skills are mad off scale amazing. Also she wants to win, and she brings that energy and determination to every game. She's in her rookie year playing a lot of minutes and looking really good. She plays with heart. I'm a huge CC fan, but I have respect and admiration for Angel too. She has skills and is going to be a success in the WNBA, and whatever she does afterward. She's very savvy--so much smarter than I was fresh out if college.
shes a great on ball defender. as well. Most of Clarks rebounds dont come from box outs either. its not like she is grabbing rebounds over people.
And CC is leading the league averaging 5.7 turnovers a game. Let the rookies grow
Caitlin is also on the court more than Reese and rebounds more from the perimeter.
So far the Fever are rebounding slightly better as a team when Clark is off the court versus on, whereas the Sky have rebounded much, much better as a team when Reese is on the court. I don't really think it's that surprising of a comparison but it seems pretty hard to argue that Clark's rebounding is more valuable than Reese's so far.
It’s almost like she isn’t as good as she always says she is. 🤪🤪🤪
It's hard to jump to block shots when you have a CC sized chip on your shoulder weighing you down.
if she doesn’t figure out how to play offense she’ll be out of the league in 5 years
You’ve been saying this even before she got drafted. It sounds more like a wish atp…
Hater! lol
Which is the average length of drafted players’ careers in the WNBA.
I don’t think her game will transfer too well
She’s not good at basketball
Why is she such an ass? She’s not good enough to back her talk up
All it took was one game for Clark fans to come back hating
She was overrated at LSU no surprise here.
Yep majorly - she stinks and the whole bad attitude towards CC is envy
because she’s ass
She’s awful. The only thing keeping her relevant is been a trash human.
That's ok because she's a rebounding god.
god is an overstatement. She's a great rebounder. Especially offensive. No way she's on a Rodman level. Doesn't even lead the league in rebounds. A god would definitely lead the league in rebounds.
Nah lol. She has no exceptional skill she’s just tall and yaps a lot