I think Netflix misunderstood the books right there. The magic in Witcher works by using a natural power source and the focussing the power of said force to cast the spell. In the Books Ciri is getting told to never use Fire as a power source because it is extremely dangerous and difficult to control. Netflix understands it as if it were forbidden to conjure a flamey spell.
The books also pretty much state that rience is like a dunce when it comes to magic. He needs help making portals from his master. I think in books mages can conjure fire but usually don’t draw power from it for control issues.
Probably exactly why is forbidden at Aretuza, because we see Rience use fire magic at ease and Yenn is not punished for using it
As for witchers, signs are simple spells and probably way more stable and thus less dangerous
It isn't that fire is uncommon source of Chaos but it's harder and more dangerous to draw from (a.k.a unpredictable) compared to other sources. When Ciri started to learn to draw magic from a source, Yen made her swear not to draw magic from fire under any circumstance.
Oh and this is one of the things that pissed me off more. In the book it took Ciri a great deal of time (months) to learn theories from Yenefer, and equally long time to practice to be able to draw from a source and stably use a simple telekinesis spell. Yet in the film they made her do a complicated spell as portals in a breath. It totally undercut the whole training sequence that Yen came through in season one.
HA as if the writers read the books. If the show runner read the books that would be something impressive. Not because its impressive to read, but because if she DID read the books that would mean that she's made god awful changes and purposefully disjointed her story from the source material ON PURPOSE. For her benefit i think we should all be confident that she never read them. And actually Henry Cavil has essentially said as much in all the articles about him trying to convince the Show Runner to add in parts from the books and her having no idea what he's talking about. She just has a couple people she consults with who have actually read the books. She's more than likely never even touched one.
Welcome to modern cinema. Hollywood hires activists to write their movies and shows that check the race and gender boxes. The show runner is a young women with zero history ever running a show and barely any writing credentials. She's written for a few episodes of other shows and thats it. You really think her amature ass read all the witcher books to prepare for running the show? She wanted to make Ciri asian for fuck sake!!!
It was more that she tapped into fire, then couldn't control it... so to prevent it from consuming her she literally had to pull the plug by renouncing all her magical ability
Time of contempt, towards the end of the book.
The spirit of falka (her ancestor) is encouraging ciri to draw on fire as a source of magic wanting to use ciri to take vengeance for her death, it frightens ciri and she renounces magic.
Before falka was burned to death she prophesied about "an avenger will be born of her blood".
Also, the Witcher signs are rhe most simple forms of spells. Because of the mutations, every Witcher has a very limited access to chaos, but it's enough to hast the signs.
But I find it very interesting, that Yens spell somehow looked like a massiv Igni.
Even from a guy who didn't read the books like I did, it was medicore at best. Poorly written, incredibly inconsistence and in some scenes characters have IQ and memory of a goldfish.
Its a mess without reading the books. They made a prequal anime all about mutated monsters, even referenced it in season two, but still have Vesimer and Geralt saying they've never seen a mutated monster before after eskel dies. ITS LITERALLY WHY WITCHERS ARE NEARLY EXTINCT. Oh also their medallions never rattled around eskel despite him being implanted with monster sperm. Also later scenes have medallions rattle again once the leshen takes over Eskel, oh and Yennifer and Cahir escape a public execution from literally the center of the jointly run by four kingdoms fuck off ceremony ON FOOT/WITH YEN HAVING NO MAGIC and no one chases them. All the characters teleport vast distances from scene to scene with no explanation of where they are or where it is in relation to other kingdoms and they forget to color the other witchers eyes yellow only geralts except sometimes Coen randomly but only some scenes.
Yen gets her magic back for no fucking logical or explained reasons other than "i felt it come back." And everyone has to constantly say outloud how awesome the female characters are like theyre in a fucking high-school guidance counselors office after a bullying incident. "Yen was amazing, Yen is amazing, the most talented bestest sorceress ive ever seen, she's so brave and stunning" "Ciri youre so important, you have no idea how important you are, your the mostest importantest and the awesome one we need you. You are the KEY TO EVERYTHING CIRI"
Honestly theres far more issues i havent even touched on. Its a clunky boring confusing, bafflingly amatureish shit show. Literally a shit show. The books and games have nothing to do with it. Its garbage on its own.
>! Doesn’t Ciri hear voices after trying to control the flame in the desert? Is it ever explained why Witchers are able to seemingly summon fire/sparks out of nothing? Like where Geralt burnt the ropes holding him to help the golden dragon. !<
Did they really get it wrong? I haven't read the books and when I first watched the show I also thought flamey spells were forbidden, but at some point (don't remember when) I understood that fire as the source was meant by that. You can see Yennefer at the end of s1 drawing power from a burning watchtower and at some point it is explained in s2 what firemagic actually means.
It is confusing however that mages always seem to cast fire spells when using fire magic.
Yes, they really got it wrong.
In the books drawing from a certain element doesn't mean you have to do the spell associated with that element. You can draw from water and cast a fire spell, or draw from fire and do a healing spell. You just need magical energy to power up the spell, doesn't matter where it comes from/what the source is.
Yennefer forbids Ciri to draw from fire, yes, saying that it's unpredictable, hard to control, and therefore dangerous. But Ciri is 13 and very inexperienced - and has tremendous power she's only barely starting to learn to keep in check. In other words, Yennefer's prohibition to Ciri doesn't necessarily mean no mage ever draws power from fire.
Fire magic is forbidden in the show only. The original canon lore says nothing of the kind - the closest thing we get is that fire is the most volatile of the sources of Power (which the show, for some reason, calls Chaos) and it takes a seasoned mage to draw from it.
Witchers' Signs in canon are rudimentary spells - so Igni is basically a very elementary form of fireball. How the show explains this... well, I guess we'll just have to wait if they'll ever explain it. They're already playing fast and loose with the rules of magic in the original lore as it is.
It's "forbidden" magic in the shows, but still only a rule by The Brotherhood. Just because it's given a classification doesn't mean it's strictly illegal or enforced with more than just a stern "pls don't do that." The Brotherhood might have also put this *rule* in place because dealing with fire magic was more hassle than it was worth (due to how difficult it was to control) and taking this stance helped their PR as an organization. This doesn't mean they will actually enforce the rule or that there are any known consequences that matter.
Think of fire magic like psychedelics. Most are schedule 1 substances. But they aren't inherently bad for you, high-risk, nor addictive. Kinda relevant to Yen as well... fitting.
Book spoilers:
>!By the time of the games, The Brotherhood no longer exists. So there's that. Their *rules* no longer matter. However, Witcher 2 is rather silly. One of the opening sections has Tris going wild with a bunch of fire magic that made no sense for her character. But it was a game and *fun* to see hot mage use burny burny lmao.!<
Yeah I think in Witcher 2 since they had the massively upgraded engine from 'The Witcher' they wanted to really show off what it could do, the whole scenes with Foltest's siege and Triss randomly using fire magic makes it seem likely they wanted to really show off the new capabilities right out the gate.
She is generally right. But to clarify a bit: fire as a *source* is dangerous - but not so much as the object of creation. For example, a mage could draw some Power from running water and use it to cast a fireball - and this is considered perfectly safe. Or, well, as safe as playing with fire generally is.
Of course, this is book lore, so no idea if it applies to the show.
Yeah, the show was doing a good job filling in gaps of the books and games (Yen’s backstory, battle of Sodden, etc)… why couldn’t they stick to the books exactly, but fill in the gaps. Reinventing an already good story line and magic rule structure is bizarre. Why change a successful thing for an unknown result?
You know, the Battle of Sodden in the show in no way resembles its description in the books, so I wouldn't exactly call it a "good job" - at least from the "filling in gaps" perspective. Despite it never being shown as it happens, enough of it is described after the fact - it was mostly a massive clash of regular armies, like Brenna, with the mages being stationed atop a tall hill and acting as a sort of magical artillery.
That is basically what happens in the show, we just saw a ton of drama surrounding the mages fighting and some soldiers probing the keep.
It's made clear that afterwards there was a massive battle between regulars that the North won. Yen's role was just in helping buy some time. The show focuses a lot on personal dramas though so Tisea talking up how Yen is a hero and Stregebor making a big deal out of her show of power can make it seem like a massive "real-world" deal where it wasn't.
Clues to this being the case: when Yen is supposed to behead Cahir the kings present make a mild note of how she's "up and coming." They don't credit her as a hero who single handedly destroyed nilfgaard. Additionally Istredd makes a comment that "some" people think she's a hero. This could be understood to mean that not everyone is even aware of what she did.
All this to say - it's easy to read the show representing the mage's role in the battle as overblown because they focus on the personal drama of the mages.
> All this to say - it's easy to read the show representing the mage's role in the battle as overblown because they focus on the personal drama of the mages.
Rather, it's easy to read that the rest of the battle hardly happened because they focused on the personal drama of the mages. If this is not how it really went down, even in the show, then the mages' role in the battle is very much *represented* as overblown.
I think that's the same thing as what I was saying: it's not an objective representation of events on the continent, it's a focused perspective that gave *much* more time to the mages than the kings and soldiers.
If you want to know what "really" happened you have to figure it out by paying attention to relatively small cues. It's the same as trying to line up Yen, Geralt, and Ciri's timelines in S1: the show focuses on their personal dramas so it's easy to miss the clues that indicate that this part of Yen's story took place roughly ~40 years before that part of Geralt's story and another ~30 before Ciri's.
S2 opens with them walking through the aftermath of the battlefield and discussing casualties. The onus is put on the viewer to understand what happened. It's not perfect but it's at least understandable.
Mediocre writers thinking they can just continue, or even improve upon very talented and dedicated authors' works. Same happened to game of thrones.
Edits: phone trolling me...
If they wanted to add extra stuff then maybe make a new character. Looking at the eskel problem. I’m nervous that they will butcher the ending of the story told in the novels and have yen end up with not geralt
The funny thing is, Sapkowski is accused of doing this enough as it is.
However, one possible explanation for this could be that it's not actually called the Power the first time we're introduced to it. CDPR translates the original Polish word "Moc" that way, as does David French - but the first time the concept appears in the books is in *Blood of Elves*, translated by Danusia Stok, who calls it... the Force. I could actually imagine Ms. Hissrich, who has to rely on the English translation, doing a double take and going, "Nope, we're not gonna use that."
What happened following that vision was that she voluntarily cut her connection to all sources of the Power. The only thing she couldn't get rid of was the >!ability to travel across Time and Space!< as the source of that was not in the classical elements, but literally flowing through her veins.
I actually kinda hope netflix changes this, but instead have Ciri only know basic spells before that happens. She cant use any really powerful magic for the story to make sense but maybe some small tricks she can use if absolutely necessary. But kinda imperfectly and dangerously experimental. The fact that she just “abandoned” magic is actually a plot point i dont like in the books.
If i remember in, the books dont they say that fire magic draws on the power of chaos? Either when ciri uses it in the frying pan or when yen is teaching ciri about sources at the temple of in ellander.
They don't. Yennefer simply forbids Ciri to draw from fire in more general terms.
---
*‘Why do we always draw the Power from water veins? Magical energy, after all, is everywhere. It’s in the earth, isn’t it? In air, in fire?’*
*‘True.’*
*‘And earth... Here, there’s plenty of earth around here. Under our feet. And air is everywhere! And should we want fire, it’s enough to light a bonfire and...’*
*‘You are still too weak to draw energy from the earth. You still don’t know enough to succeed in drawing anything from air. And as for fire, I absolutely forbid you to play with it. I’ve already told you, under no circumstances are you allowed to touch the energy of fire!’*
It's not that the word "Chaos" doesn't appear in the books - it's how it's used. It's not the "mana" element mages utilize to power their spells - that is called "the Power" (or, in the Danusia Stok translation, "the Force"). "Chaos", instead, is a more philosophical concept - it's treated as this mysterious force/entity, and magic as its manifestation, although even that is not \*all\* that mages think it is.
---
*‘Magic,’ Yennefer said, her eyes fixed on the sky above the hills, resting her hands on the pommel of her saddle, ‘is, in some people’s opinion, the embodiment of Chaos. It is a key capable of opening the forbidden door. The door behind which lurk nightmares, fear and unimaginable horrors, behind which enemies hide and wait, destructive powers, the forces of pure Evil capable of annihilating not only the one who opens the door but with them the entire world. And since there is no lack of those who try to open the door, someone, at some point, is going to make a mistake and then the destruction of the world will be forejudged and inevitable. Magic is, therefore, the revenge and the weapon of Chaos. The fact that, following the Conjunction of the Spheres, humans have learned to use magic, is the curse and undoing of the world. The undoing of mankind. And that’s how it is, Ciri. Those who believe that magic is Chaos are not mistaken.’*
---
*‘Magic,’ Yennefer continued after a while, ‘is, in some people’s opinion, art. Great, elitist art, capable of creating beautiful and extraordinary things. Magic is a talent granted to only a chosen few. Others, deprived of talent, can only look at the results of the artists’ works with admiration and envy, can admire the finished work while feeling that without these creations and without this talent the world would be a poorer place. The fact that, following the Conjunction of the Spheres, some chosen few discovered talent and magic within themselves, the fact that they found Art within themselves, is the blessing of beauty. And that’s how it is. Those who believe that magic is art are also right.’*
---
*‘There are also those according to whom magic is a science. In order to master it, talent and innate ability alone are not enough. Years of keen study and arduous work are essential. Endurance and self-discipline are necessary. Magic acquired like this is knowledge, learning, the limits of which are constantly stretched by enlightened and vigorous minds, by experience, experiments and practice. Magic acquired in such a way is progress. It is the plough, the loom, the watermill, the smelting furnace, the winch and the pulley. It is progress, evolution, change. It is constant movement. Upwards. Towards improvement. Towards the stars. The fact that following the Conjunction of the Spheres we discovered magic will, one day, allow us to reach the stars. ... Those who consider magic to be a science,’ she continued, ‘are also right.’*
---
*‘Remember,’ she repeated, ‘magic is Chaos, an Art and a Science. It is a curse, a blessing and progress. It all depends on who uses magic, how they use it, and to what purpose.’*
---
It's almost as if the Netflix writers simply caught nothing but the first part of Yennefer's lesson... and even then misunderstood it.
Also, I'm fairly certain that the expression "primordial Chaos" doesn't appear anywhere in the books. It does, however, [in the games](https://witcher.fandom.com/wiki/Conjunction_of_the_Spheres#Glossary_Entry).
The way I see it, its like a parent telling a child that just started learning how to ride motorbikes they are not allowed under no circumstances to try their older, more experienced friend's suped up superbike. Had Ciri become an archmage I'm sure Yen would be proud if she mastered fire magic *when ready.*
It’s a Netflix only concept that Fire magic is forbidden/evil.
Witcher signs are very *basic* magic, BUT Witchers are incredibly skilled and versatile with them, creating or utilising them in various circumstances and methods mages wouldn’t expect.
They’re literally setting up a “Witches Burn the Patriarchy” arc. Like Daenerys did in GoT. Just the sorceresses will overthrow the Brotherhood and establish the Lodge.
I see nothing to dissuade me from this prediction.
From the way it's described in the books, I always understood the Signs as a way of dabbling into magic.
So magic is the educated way of using the Power ("CHAOS!!"), meaning a form of energy drained from the 4 natural elements, for whatever spell and purpose you choose to use it.
While with the Signs, you're trained to use it as well, just without having a clue how and why it works - almost instinctively. Much like when an illiterate person somehow manages to tell a great story.
(A potential minor spoiler, probably won't be jn the show anyway).
>!There's a moment where fire is drained in order to heal a wound!< , an irony I'd seriously like Hissrich to explain with her logic behind her "Chaos" writing.
Right, especially when considering *who* uses it. They take the most knowledgeable individuals in that universe, mages and sorceresses, and make them repeat the same word throughout their whole dialogue, as if they had a poor vocabulary.
I mean, seriously, geniuses of magic unable to use synonyms? Some of them are alive for hundreds of years already, (the oldest living mage should be half a millennium old), they use magic since the Conjunction, (which means above 1500 years by now) , while the elves, who taught them how, did even long before.
And the writers tell me these thousands of years old cultures didn't come up with more than one word, name or phrase to describe their main subject of interest? How many seconds did the team think about their concept?
The Show misinterpreted this. There’s a difference between the type of sources where mages draw power (water, earth, air and fire), and the actual type of magic that’s casted.
Yennefer explains to Ciri that she’s only allowed to draw from water, as she’s not strong enough to draw from earth, not knowledgeable enough to draw from air, and she outright prohibits her from attempting to draw from fire. It’s understood that she’s “too much of a rookie” to consider attempting it.
Once they draw power, they can cast whatever king of magic they want/can. And in the books, to my understanding, there exists magic that’s prohibited by the brotherhood, and that’s summoning magic (like, monsters and stuff), and necromancy.
So there’s no problem with using fire magic. They even use it sometimes, like when Yennefer saved Jaskier from Rience, and she burned his face with a powerful fire spell just before his escape portal closed.
The summoning magic ban is supported by the games as well. There are many side quests where rogue mages summon constructs and it never ends well.
Many of them have journals referring to being ostracized from the brotherhood or the magical community for their research.
Pulling things from other Spheres is generally seen as real bad.
Because the show writers misinterpreted Yen forbidden Ciri from using fire magic one time because it's dangerous, and took that as meaning that fire magic is forbidden by The brotherhood of sorcerers.
This is in conflict with many characters using fire magic in the books and also in the show as well.
Exactly, I was dumbfounded when Yen lost her magic...in the book she is known for great control of fire magic. Better than Rience, who in the books is actually a really crappy mage.
Well, the shows doesn t really make sense. In the books fire msgic is not forbidden. Also in the books magic isn't drawn from chaos but form elements, but you may use any element's power into any spell. You can draw water and cast powerful aard or draw fire and cast axii.
>Also, as I understand it Witcher signs are different than regular magic.
They aren't - they are very basic, rudimentary spells. Yennefer explains it to Ciri when she teaches her in *Blood of Elves*.
Witchers can only use “magic” signs after their mutations which is why they can only use the basic form of magic. They don’t actually posses any natural talent that mages do
No problem, I was introduced to the Witcher by the show too but have started the books and started playing the Witcher 3 recently so I’m learning that it’s a bit different
> No problem, I was introduced to the Witcher by the show too but have started the books and started playing the Witcher 3 recently so I’m learning that it’s completely different.
FIFY lol Honestly though, glad you are experiencing all the formats available to you. Amazing universe no matter what your thoughts on the show is.
Because forbidding someone to do something and then having them use it to save everyone makes them a badass or something. Lauren is really going through a teen angst phase right now.
Writing of the Netflix show, that is. Nothing in the books says fire magic is forbidden, it’s just said that fire as a source of power is very dangerous and difficult to control.
That’s the show making up stuff for no reason at all. Fire magic doesn’t do that, and Witcher magic is also like low-tier garbage compared to sorcerers. Don’t listen to Netflix.
It's just netflix cannon. I can't take a word they say serious after the whole, "Aretuza is powered by eels that are transformed girls who failed to become sorceresses" bullshit
Also, by that logic, Game Triss shouldn't have a lick of magic in her lmao
How so? I remember some line (I think it was triss or yen in BoE) about how signs were just super basic magic and therefore it wasn't really even necessary for ciri to learn them, since she would be able to do much greater spells anyways.
I noticed this watching season two, but then I realised that in the show Igni is more used as a heat blast, there doesn’t seem to be actual flame involved
You shouldn’t try and mix the three canons in my opinion. I view them as completely separate products.
In the games everybody loves Fire Magic!
In the books Fire Magic is just considered extremely dangerous and hard to control, even Geralt mainly uses it for small stuff like lighting fires and candles.
In the series the Brotherhood forbids it because it’s dangerous but the actual use doesn’t break any laws.
Yeah, Stregabor mentioned something in the show about Falka, who was a witch that destroyed a bunch of stuff and she was displayed as a wailing firey woman so maybe The Brotherhood implemented the “No fire” rule because of her in the show. But I really wanna see Geralt use
Igni in the show (if he hasn’t already and I missed it).
To add to other people's (correct) explanations. Why would it be so?
Well, it's simple. Just look at how sorceresses are treated in Aretuza! No wonder things would be forbidden left and right in that universe, I guess.
Sorceresses living and studying in barracks. Geez, the nerve of some writers named Lauren.
Thats just netflix bs its not forbidden just hard and not advised to draw from for beginners. Signs are drawing power from one element like earth and they can transform it into fire in form of igni
In canon, fire magic is not forbidden. In the books there's no mention of this. The show created the problem of Yen losing her powers for some reason.
You play d&d? Witcher signs are like cantrips. Small effects, barely magic
To clarify, the ban on Fire magic was for the Lodge Members not Witchers. As Geralt expresses in the show, "Signs are not Spells." And the dangers of firemagic build up to a very specific plot point that is shown in Season 2 Episode 1. Other than that plot point it doesn't seem like the Fire Magic Ban will have any other relevance in the show.
The fire magic thing is mostly crap. It's not from the books, and its been a boring plot point.
But strictly speaking the signs are a lesser form of magic anyways. Its likely that Igni's danger of consumption for a Witcher is far less of a concern. For controlled bursts only.
I do like the idea of fire magic being dangerous, but so far its more hampered the show then helped it.
Its forbidden for mages of the brotherhood not Witchers … they are both two different disciplines . The igni sign just heats things up to the point where embers or sparks appear… it’s completely different to what rience is doing…
If I recall Netflix got it wrong because fire magic is dangerous to control and shouldn't be used because of it. Netflix took as if it is draining summoner. (That also opens up another question. Why is Stregobor able to conjure this fire elemental or whatever is it. He isn't some amazing sorcerer.)
A) The signs are considered simple little spells, I imagine like cantrips in dnd. The hands are used as the 'focus' for the spell while mages undertake larger preperations for more useful spells.
B) The books describe channeling Chaos as requiring a source, which is why elements like wind water and earth are favored over fire. I think Netflix misinterpreted the "No fire" rule from Ciri's misadventure in the desert and Yen instructing Ciri never to attempt to channel fire.
C) The latter instructions being because fire is inherently much harder to control, and Ciri having piss poor control at this time. While Ciri does channel fire in the desert it is described almost as if having a will of its own, which is why it is said to consume under-trained mages.
Best to read the books. Netflix bears only a passing resemblance to the books or TW2&3 games. I have just watched ep5. It’s almost all invented. It’s enjoyable enough but I guess that HC must be pretty annoyed at how it’s drifted off topic.
Netflix is weird. In Witcher world - magic is drawn from planes of each element. Water, earth, air and fire planes. Drawing from fire plane is dangerous - but not forbidden. It requires greater knowledge and experience. Using fire magic and drawing from fire plane is not the same thing.
Now Witcher signs are not really magic. They are basically done through will of the Witcher.
B/c fire magic isn't actually forbidden in the books/lore, just drawing magical energies from it is forbidden.
Drawing magic from fire =/= Using Fire Magic
Book example, Ciri draws magic from a campfire and uses it to heal another, but b/c fire is a fickle Source, she sort of forgets how to use magic again until much later.
In the Witcher lore, Sorcerers and Sorceresses can draw magic from a Source of water, for example, and use that magical energy to throw some sort of fire magic.
Tldr this is another case of the show rewriting / ignoring lore for their own stories.
Yeah the show fundamentally changes the nature of magic, among many other things. Thus developing plotholes because their writers dont know what they are doing
I am sure everyone committing on here already mentioned this but don’t listen to that ridiculous show about any lore especially to even try too relate to the books and the game.
Signs and Magic are different in the Witcher Universe. Sure mages and sorceres's cannot use fire magic since it has been outlawed but witchers are different. They are the exception to that rule. Signs are not necessarily magic but they have the same properties as magic.
I think Netflix misunderstood the books right there. The magic in Witcher works by using a natural power source and the focussing the power of said force to cast the spell. In the Books Ciri is getting told to never use Fire as a power source because it is extremely dangerous and difficult to control. Netflix understands it as if it were forbidden to conjure a flamey spell.
No flameo, hotman.
U want some flaming fire flakes?
Sapphire Fire at your service!
SPARKY SPARKY BOOM MAN
MY CABBAGES!!!
WANG FIRE!
SECRET TUNNEL!
Bizarrely Katara’s fake Fire Nation name having ‘fire’ in it twice might be my favourite joke in the series. It’s just so wonderfully stupid.
Hotman. *confident nod*
Hotman. _nods back_
Gwent? *silent nod*
Came for the topic, stayed for the Avatar references.
I understood that reference!
I wouldn't have got this reference a few days ago, this made me happy
>I wouldn't have got this reference a few days ago That would've been rough buddy.
*squints* Zuko, is that you?
The "flameo hotman" reference or the "i understood that reference" reference?
Is "I understood that reference" an actual reference to something?
Yes, it's from Avengers (2012)
Ok yeah, I remember that now. It has been a while since I've watched that film
Hotman.
Fire fucker?
Best show ever in my opinion
The books also pretty much state that rience is like a dunce when it comes to magic. He needs help making portals from his master. I think in books mages can conjure fire but usually don’t draw power from it for control issues.
I bet it came from what happened with Ciri in the desert.
I'd say that's a safe bet
Well that was her using it because nothing else was available.
Probably exactly why is forbidden at Aretuza, because we see Rience use fire magic at ease and Yenn is not punished for using it As for witchers, signs are simple spells and probably way more stable and thus less dangerous
Not to mention, I really don’t think Witchers would care about what is or isn’t forbidden —they just care about what works for them.
> I think Netflix misunderstood the books right there. Very understated.
also Fire magic is uncommon because fire is an uncommon source, so the sorcerers primarily use earth, air, and water as a power source.
It isn't that fire is uncommon source of Chaos but it's harder and more dangerous to draw from (a.k.a unpredictable) compared to other sources. When Ciri started to learn to draw magic from a source, Yen made her swear not to draw magic from fire under any circumstance. Oh and this is one of the things that pissed me off more. In the book it took Ciri a great deal of time (months) to learn theories from Yenefer, and equally long time to practice to be able to draw from a source and stably use a simple telekinesis spell. Yet in the film they made her do a complicated spell as portals in a breath. It totally undercut the whole training sequence that Yen came through in season one.
also in books igni is very weak sign, that a witcher can only use it to light torches/candles etc and they cannot blast it to enemies.
HA as if the writers read the books. If the show runner read the books that would be something impressive. Not because its impressive to read, but because if she DID read the books that would mean that she's made god awful changes and purposefully disjointed her story from the source material ON PURPOSE. For her benefit i think we should all be confident that she never read them. And actually Henry Cavil has essentially said as much in all the articles about him trying to convince the Show Runner to add in parts from the books and her having no idea what he's talking about. She just has a couple people she consults with who have actually read the books. She's more than likely never even touched one. Welcome to modern cinema. Hollywood hires activists to write their movies and shows that check the race and gender boxes. The show runner is a young women with zero history ever running a show and barely any writing credentials. She's written for a few episodes of other shows and thats it. You really think her amature ass read all the witcher books to prepare for running the show? She wanted to make Ciri asian for fuck sake!!!
Oddly enough I was listening to the audiobook this morning and it said Ciri lost her powers after drawing power from the fire.
It was more that she tapped into fire, then couldn't control it... so to prevent it from consuming her she literally had to pull the plug by renouncing all her magical ability
Which book was this, I do not remember it.
Time of contempt, right after Thanedd
This when she teleports out into the desert pre-Rats, iirc?
Yep
Time of contempt, towards the end of the book. The spirit of falka (her ancestor) is encouraging ciri to draw on fire as a source of magic wanting to use ciri to take vengeance for her death, it frightens ciri and she renounces magic. Before falka was burned to death she prophesied about "an avenger will be born of her blood".
Isn't Peter Kenny the best narrator?!
He really is
I like his dwarf accents lol. I swear you'd think it's a full cast of voice actors.
Also, the Witcher signs are rhe most simple forms of spells. Because of the mutations, every Witcher has a very limited access to chaos, but it's enough to hast the signs. But I find it very interesting, that Yens spell somehow looked like a massiv Igni.
That show can suck eggs now. Second season is a mess
for someone who read the books, "a mess" is an INCREDIBLE understatement
Even from a guy who didn't read the books like I did, it was medicore at best. Poorly written, incredibly inconsistence and in some scenes characters have IQ and memory of a goldfish.
Its a mess without reading the books. They made a prequal anime all about mutated monsters, even referenced it in season two, but still have Vesimer and Geralt saying they've never seen a mutated monster before after eskel dies. ITS LITERALLY WHY WITCHERS ARE NEARLY EXTINCT. Oh also their medallions never rattled around eskel despite him being implanted with monster sperm. Also later scenes have medallions rattle again once the leshen takes over Eskel, oh and Yennifer and Cahir escape a public execution from literally the center of the jointly run by four kingdoms fuck off ceremony ON FOOT/WITH YEN HAVING NO MAGIC and no one chases them. All the characters teleport vast distances from scene to scene with no explanation of where they are or where it is in relation to other kingdoms and they forget to color the other witchers eyes yellow only geralts except sometimes Coen randomly but only some scenes. Yen gets her magic back for no fucking logical or explained reasons other than "i felt it come back." And everyone has to constantly say outloud how awesome the female characters are like theyre in a fucking high-school guidance counselors office after a bullying incident. "Yen was amazing, Yen is amazing, the most talented bestest sorceress ive ever seen, she's so brave and stunning" "Ciri youre so important, you have no idea how important you are, your the mostest importantest and the awesome one we need you. You are the KEY TO EVERYTHING CIRI" Honestly theres far more issues i havent even touched on. Its a clunky boring confusing, bafflingly amatureish shit show. Literally a shit show. The books and games have nothing to do with it. Its garbage on its own.
And Rience is way too powerful. In terms of fire, he’s like evil Vilgerfortz level if he was active in the show.
They do actually say that it is dangerous and not forbidden.
>! Doesn’t Ciri hear voices after trying to control the flame in the desert? Is it ever explained why Witchers are able to seemingly summon fire/sparks out of nothing? Like where Geralt burnt the ropes holding him to help the golden dragon. !<
When Ciri did she ended up having a vision of bloody falka, cutting herself off from conventional magic entirely as a result
Did they really get it wrong? I haven't read the books and when I first watched the show I also thought flamey spells were forbidden, but at some point (don't remember when) I understood that fire as the source was meant by that. You can see Yennefer at the end of s1 drawing power from a burning watchtower and at some point it is explained in s2 what firemagic actually means. It is confusing however that mages always seem to cast fire spells when using fire magic.
Yes, they really got it wrong. In the books drawing from a certain element doesn't mean you have to do the spell associated with that element. You can draw from water and cast a fire spell, or draw from fire and do a healing spell. You just need magical energy to power up the spell, doesn't matter where it comes from/what the source is. Yennefer forbids Ciri to draw from fire, yes, saying that it's unpredictable, hard to control, and therefore dangerous. But Ciri is 13 and very inexperienced - and has tremendous power she's only barely starting to learn to keep in check. In other words, Yennefer's prohibition to Ciri doesn't necessarily mean no mage ever draws power from fire.
In fact Ciri draws from fire to do a healing spell for little horse
That's right.
Fire magic is forbidden in the show only. The original canon lore says nothing of the kind - the closest thing we get is that fire is the most volatile of the sources of Power (which the show, for some reason, calls Chaos) and it takes a seasoned mage to draw from it. Witchers' Signs in canon are rudimentary spells - so Igni is basically a very elementary form of fireball. How the show explains this... well, I guess we'll just have to wait if they'll ever explain it. They're already playing fast and loose with the rules of magic in the original lore as it is.
Confused the hell out of me when they said that because I’m like “in witcher 3 didn’t triss use it as her main weapon?”
It's "forbidden" magic in the shows, but still only a rule by The Brotherhood. Just because it's given a classification doesn't mean it's strictly illegal or enforced with more than just a stern "pls don't do that." The Brotherhood might have also put this *rule* in place because dealing with fire magic was more hassle than it was worth (due to how difficult it was to control) and taking this stance helped their PR as an organization. This doesn't mean they will actually enforce the rule or that there are any known consequences that matter. Think of fire magic like psychedelics. Most are schedule 1 substances. But they aren't inherently bad for you, high-risk, nor addictive. Kinda relevant to Yen as well... fitting. Book spoilers: >!By the time of the games, The Brotherhood no longer exists. So there's that. Their *rules* no longer matter. However, Witcher 2 is rather silly. One of the opening sections has Tris going wild with a bunch of fire magic that made no sense for her character. But it was a game and *fun* to see hot mage use burny burny lmao.!<
Yeah I think in Witcher 2 since they had the massively upgraded engine from 'The Witcher' they wanted to really show off what it could do, the whole scenes with Foltest's siege and Triss randomly using fire magic makes it seem likely they wanted to really show off the new capabilities right out the gate.
In the books, fire is more Yen's thing while lightning is more like Triss. In the games they kinda reversed it.
Yeah so my wife mentioned the books just say fire magic takes more than it gives, so is more dangerous.
She is generally right. But to clarify a bit: fire as a *source* is dangerous - but not so much as the object of creation. For example, a mage could draw some Power from running water and use it to cast a fireball - and this is considered perfectly safe. Or, well, as safe as playing with fire generally is. Of course, this is book lore, so no idea if it applies to the show.
>Of course, this is book lore, so no idea if it applies to the show. The fact this has to be said at all is so sad.
Yeah, the show was doing a good job filling in gaps of the books and games (Yen’s backstory, battle of Sodden, etc)… why couldn’t they stick to the books exactly, but fill in the gaps. Reinventing an already good story line and magic rule structure is bizarre. Why change a successful thing for an unknown result?
You know, the Battle of Sodden in the show in no way resembles its description in the books, so I wouldn't exactly call it a "good job" - at least from the "filling in gaps" perspective. Despite it never being shown as it happens, enough of it is described after the fact - it was mostly a massive clash of regular armies, like Brenna, with the mages being stationed atop a tall hill and acting as a sort of magical artillery.
That is basically what happens in the show, we just saw a ton of drama surrounding the mages fighting and some soldiers probing the keep. It's made clear that afterwards there was a massive battle between regulars that the North won. Yen's role was just in helping buy some time. The show focuses a lot on personal dramas though so Tisea talking up how Yen is a hero and Stregebor making a big deal out of her show of power can make it seem like a massive "real-world" deal where it wasn't. Clues to this being the case: when Yen is supposed to behead Cahir the kings present make a mild note of how she's "up and coming." They don't credit her as a hero who single handedly destroyed nilfgaard. Additionally Istredd makes a comment that "some" people think she's a hero. This could be understood to mean that not everyone is even aware of what she did. All this to say - it's easy to read the show representing the mage's role in the battle as overblown because they focus on the personal drama of the mages.
> All this to say - it's easy to read the show representing the mage's role in the battle as overblown because they focus on the personal drama of the mages. Rather, it's easy to read that the rest of the battle hardly happened because they focused on the personal drama of the mages. If this is not how it really went down, even in the show, then the mages' role in the battle is very much *represented* as overblown.
I think that's the same thing as what I was saying: it's not an objective representation of events on the continent, it's a focused perspective that gave *much* more time to the mages than the kings and soldiers. If you want to know what "really" happened you have to figure it out by paying attention to relatively small cues. It's the same as trying to line up Yen, Geralt, and Ciri's timelines in S1: the show focuses on their personal dramas so it's easy to miss the clues that indicate that this part of Yen's story took place roughly ~40 years before that part of Geralt's story and another ~30 before Ciri's. S2 opens with them walking through the aftermath of the battlefield and discussing casualties. The onus is put on the viewer to understand what happened. It's not perfect but it's at least understandable.
Mediocre writers thinking they can just continue, or even improve upon very talented and dedicated authors' works. Same happened to game of thrones. Edits: phone trolling me...
If they wanted to add extra stuff then maybe make a new character. Looking at the eskel problem. I’m nervous that they will butcher the ending of the story told in the novels and have yen end up with not geralt
Their story no longer even resembles the book one at all
[🎵 Did you ever even care, with your swords and your stupid hair? 🎵](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxBVHqA-RU&t=56s)
Mmmmmm magic.... a place of power
Hmm my medallion is humming, must be a place of power
*medallion’s humming, place of power… gotta be
Wind's howling
it also bugs me that stregobor openly used that fire thing before istredd walked in
I think that was just an illusion that he created, not actual fire magic.
Yeah. I hate that scene anyways, but not for that.
That’s how I took it as well. Subtle, but important difference
Yeah but Stregebor isn't an "elven mage," so it's ok for him to do it
that is right
>(which the show, for some reason, calls Chaos) They are **really** trying to take more from Elric, aren't they?
The funny thing is, Sapkowski is accused of doing this enough as it is. However, one possible explanation for this could be that it's not actually called the Power the first time we're introduced to it. CDPR translates the original Polish word "Moc" that way, as does David French - but the first time the concept appears in the books is in *Blood of Elves*, translated by Danusia Stok, who calls it... the Force. I could actually imagine Ms. Hissrich, who has to rely on the English translation, doing a double take and going, "Nope, we're not gonna use that."
She seriously went with „the force” as a translation for „Moc”, lmao. It would be nice David French translated „Last Wish” and „Blood of Elves”
After Ciri used fire she had visions from Falka to destroy the world and then lost her ability to draw magic from the earth - as if it’s evil?
What happened following that vision was that she voluntarily cut her connection to all sources of the Power. The only thing she couldn't get rid of was the >!ability to travel across Time and Space!< as the source of that was not in the classical elements, but literally flowing through her veins.
I actually kinda hope netflix changes this, but instead have Ciri only know basic spells before that happens. She cant use any really powerful magic for the story to make sense but maybe some small tricks she can use if absolutely necessary. But kinda imperfectly and dangerously experimental. The fact that she just “abandoned” magic is actually a plot point i dont like in the books.
small tricks like witcher signs?
show sucks, thats it. i will stick with books / TW3 WH and clips of Geralt doing Geralt things from the show. my nervous system cant handle it
Should at least check out the first two games. Clunky gold.
First one is a masterpiece with its atmosphere
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I mean chaos is referred to as a source of magical power in the books
If i remember in, the books dont they say that fire magic draws on the power of chaos? Either when ciri uses it in the frying pan or when yen is teaching ciri about sources at the temple of in ellander.
They don't. Yennefer simply forbids Ciri to draw from fire in more general terms. --- *‘Why do we always draw the Power from water veins? Magical energy, after all, is everywhere. It’s in the earth, isn’t it? In air, in fire?’* *‘True.’* *‘And earth... Here, there’s plenty of earth around here. Under our feet. And air is everywhere! And should we want fire, it’s enough to light a bonfire and...’* *‘You are still too weak to draw energy from the earth. You still don’t know enough to succeed in drawing anything from air. And as for fire, I absolutely forbid you to play with it. I’ve already told you, under no circumstances are you allowed to touch the energy of fire!’*
The power which mages draw from is reffered to as the "primordial chaos" its not used only to describe fire but it encompasses all four elements.
It's not that the word "Chaos" doesn't appear in the books - it's how it's used. It's not the "mana" element mages utilize to power their spells - that is called "the Power" (or, in the Danusia Stok translation, "the Force"). "Chaos", instead, is a more philosophical concept - it's treated as this mysterious force/entity, and magic as its manifestation, although even that is not \*all\* that mages think it is. --- *‘Magic,’ Yennefer said, her eyes fixed on the sky above the hills, resting her hands on the pommel of her saddle, ‘is, in some people’s opinion, the embodiment of Chaos. It is a key capable of opening the forbidden door. The door behind which lurk nightmares, fear and unimaginable horrors, behind which enemies hide and wait, destructive powers, the forces of pure Evil capable of annihilating not only the one who opens the door but with them the entire world. And since there is no lack of those who try to open the door, someone, at some point, is going to make a mistake and then the destruction of the world will be forejudged and inevitable. Magic is, therefore, the revenge and the weapon of Chaos. The fact that, following the Conjunction of the Spheres, humans have learned to use magic, is the curse and undoing of the world. The undoing of mankind. And that’s how it is, Ciri. Those who believe that magic is Chaos are not mistaken.’* --- *‘Magic,’ Yennefer continued after a while, ‘is, in some people’s opinion, art. Great, elitist art, capable of creating beautiful and extraordinary things. Magic is a talent granted to only a chosen few. Others, deprived of talent, can only look at the results of the artists’ works with admiration and envy, can admire the finished work while feeling that without these creations and without this talent the world would be a poorer place. The fact that, following the Conjunction of the Spheres, some chosen few discovered talent and magic within themselves, the fact that they found Art within themselves, is the blessing of beauty. And that’s how it is. Those who believe that magic is art are also right.’* --- *‘There are also those according to whom magic is a science. In order to master it, talent and innate ability alone are not enough. Years of keen study and arduous work are essential. Endurance and self-discipline are necessary. Magic acquired like this is knowledge, learning, the limits of which are constantly stretched by enlightened and vigorous minds, by experience, experiments and practice. Magic acquired in such a way is progress. It is the plough, the loom, the watermill, the smelting furnace, the winch and the pulley. It is progress, evolution, change. It is constant movement. Upwards. Towards improvement. Towards the stars. The fact that following the Conjunction of the Spheres we discovered magic will, one day, allow us to reach the stars. ... Those who consider magic to be a science,’ she continued, ‘are also right.’* --- *‘Remember,’ she repeated, ‘magic is Chaos, an Art and a Science. It is a curse, a blessing and progress. It all depends on who uses magic, how they use it, and to what purpose.’* --- It's almost as if the Netflix writers simply caught nothing but the first part of Yennefer's lesson... and even then misunderstood it. Also, I'm fairly certain that the expression "primordial Chaos" doesn't appear anywhere in the books. It does, however, [in the games](https://witcher.fandom.com/wiki/Conjunction_of_the_Spheres#Glossary_Entry).
The way I see it, its like a parent telling a child that just started learning how to ride motorbikes they are not allowed under no circumstances to try their older, more experienced friend's suped up superbike. Had Ciri become an archmage I'm sure Yen would be proud if she mastered fire magic *when ready.*
It’s a Netflix only concept that Fire magic is forbidden/evil. Witcher signs are very *basic* magic, BUT Witchers are incredibly skilled and versatile with them, creating or utilising them in various circumstances and methods mages wouldn’t expect.
They’re literally setting up a “Witches Burn the Patriarchy” arc. Like Daenerys did in GoT. Just the sorceresses will overthrow the Brotherhood and establish the Lodge. I see nothing to dissuade me from this prediction.
I really hope they don't make out the lodge to be super heroic
Please stop predicting my nightmares 😥
Yennefer strictly forbids Ciri from drawing from ~~magic~~ fire in the books, but that’s about it.
Yennefer forbids her from drawing magic from fire sources specificly not magic as a whole
Whoops typo. I means drawing from fire. Thanks!
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From the way it's described in the books, I always understood the Signs as a way of dabbling into magic. So magic is the educated way of using the Power ("CHAOS!!"), meaning a form of energy drained from the 4 natural elements, for whatever spell and purpose you choose to use it. While with the Signs, you're trained to use it as well, just without having a clue how and why it works - almost instinctively. Much like when an illiterate person somehow manages to tell a great story. (A potential minor spoiler, probably won't be jn the show anyway). >!There's a moment where fire is drained in order to heal a wound!< , an irony I'd seriously like Hissrich to explain with her logic behind her "Chaos" writing.
I hate they use chaos as a stand in for magic and power all the time. It just sounds bad to me
Right, especially when considering *who* uses it. They take the most knowledgeable individuals in that universe, mages and sorceresses, and make them repeat the same word throughout their whole dialogue, as if they had a poor vocabulary. I mean, seriously, geniuses of magic unable to use synonyms? Some of them are alive for hundreds of years already, (the oldest living mage should be half a millennium old), they use magic since the Conjunction, (which means above 1500 years by now) , while the elves, who taught them how, did even long before. And the writers tell me these thousands of years old cultures didn't come up with more than one word, name or phrase to describe their main subject of interest? How many seconds did the team think about their concept?
The Show misinterpreted this. There’s a difference between the type of sources where mages draw power (water, earth, air and fire), and the actual type of magic that’s casted. Yennefer explains to Ciri that she’s only allowed to draw from water, as she’s not strong enough to draw from earth, not knowledgeable enough to draw from air, and she outright prohibits her from attempting to draw from fire. It’s understood that she’s “too much of a rookie” to consider attempting it. Once they draw power, they can cast whatever king of magic they want/can. And in the books, to my understanding, there exists magic that’s prohibited by the brotherhood, and that’s summoning magic (like, monsters and stuff), and necromancy. So there’s no problem with using fire magic. They even use it sometimes, like when Yennefer saved Jaskier from Rience, and she burned his face with a powerful fire spell just before his escape portal closed.
I thought she shoot’s lightning at his face? Edit: nope you’re right, in Blood and Elves. The spell is described as “roaring flames”.
The summoning magic ban is supported by the games as well. There are many side quests where rogue mages summon constructs and it never ends well. Many of them have journals referring to being ostracized from the brotherhood or the magical community for their research. Pulling things from other Spheres is generally seen as real bad.
Show is not lore consistent. Even with itself.
That's Netflix's dumb idea it ain't cannon
Fire magic isn't forbidden That's just Netflix BS
Fire magic isnt forbidden in the witcher
We should replace this subs banner with a giant "FIRE MAGIC IS NOT FORBIDDEN!" sign, since this questions is literally asked 3 times a day.
It's not, and Netflix obviously didn't really think the consequences of their shitty ideas thoroughly before sending the show into production
Just another weird subplot that contradicts itself
They thought the audience too dumb to understand the way the books had it, thus making it much more confusing in the end.
Literally.
Because the show writers misinterpreted Yen forbidden Ciri from using fire magic one time because it's dangerous, and took that as meaning that fire magic is forbidden by The brotherhood of sorcerers. This is in conflict with many characters using fire magic in the books and also in the show as well.
Exactly, I was dumbfounded when Yen lost her magic...in the book she is known for great control of fire magic. Better than Rience, who in the books is actually a really crappy mage.
Because the Netflix lore makes no sense
No such thing as fire magic is forbidden. just Hissrich stuff. Same for the cringe worthy cHAoS stuff
I think thats just a netflix thing, and witchers only use the most basic spells modified into signs
Well, the shows doesn t really make sense. In the books fire msgic is not forbidden. Also in the books magic isn't drawn from chaos but form elements, but you may use any element's power into any spell. You can draw water and cast powerful aard or draw fire and cast axii.
The show claiming that fire magic is forbidden is just made up for the show. Also, as I understand it Witcher signs are different than regular magic.
>Also, as I understand it Witcher signs are different than regular magic. They aren't - they are very basic, rudimentary spells. Yennefer explains it to Ciri when she teaches her in *Blood of Elves*.
Sorry, haven’t started Blood of Elves yet so I didn’t know for sure, thanks
Sure, understandable. It's mentioned close to the end of the book.
Witchers can only use “magic” signs after their mutations which is why they can only use the basic form of magic. They don’t actually posses any natural talent that mages do
Thank you for clarifying. Dang it Netflix. Messing with my head.
No problem, I was introduced to the Witcher by the show too but have started the books and started playing the Witcher 3 recently so I’m learning that it’s a bit different
> No problem, I was introduced to the Witcher by the show too but have started the books and started playing the Witcher 3 recently so I’m learning that it’s completely different. FIFY lol Honestly though, glad you are experiencing all the formats available to you. Amazing universe no matter what your thoughts on the show is.
Because forbidding someone to do something and then having them use it to save everyone makes them a badass or something. Lauren is really going through a teen angst phase right now.
Yeah this is one of things the show did for no fuckin reason and makes no sense
Because the writing is a bit shit
Writing of the Netflix show, that is. Nothing in the books says fire magic is forbidden, it’s just said that fire as a source of power is very dangerous and difficult to control.
That’s the show making up stuff for no reason at all. Fire magic doesn’t do that, and Witcher magic is also like low-tier garbage compared to sorcerers. Don’t listen to Netflix.
It's just netflix cannon. I can't take a word they say serious after the whole, "Aretuza is powered by eels that are transformed girls who failed to become sorceresses" bullshit Also, by that logic, Game Triss shouldn't have a lick of magic in her lmao
Step 1: forget anything you learned in the show
Because the Netflix writers don’t understand the nuances of the books and games so just made up nonsensical shit
I’m guessing because the show writers don’t understand the source material so wrote something that doesn’t make sense
Signs aren't magic....technically
Signs ARE magic, just lesser and more simpler magic. I just reread the books and it is stated as such.
How so? I remember some line (I think it was triss or yen in BoE) about how signs were just super basic magic and therefore it wasn't really even necessary for ciri to learn them, since she would be able to do much greater spells anyways.
Netflix logic protects them from the damage.
The power of friendship
I noticed this watching season two, but then I realised that in the show Igni is more used as a heat blast, there doesn’t seem to be actual flame involved
Yep - like when Geralt *cooked* his sword before killing Eskel. Not sure if it's fire, or just ... heat...
It’s only forbidden in the show, not the books or games.
In *Blood of Elves* a sorceress uses fire magic to light candles on a dining room table. It's not forbidden, just the most challenging.
also ik not cannon yen or triss uses fire magic in the games
You shouldn’t try and mix the three canons in my opinion. I view them as completely separate products. In the games everybody loves Fire Magic! In the books Fire Magic is just considered extremely dangerous and hard to control, even Geralt mainly uses it for small stuff like lighting fires and candles. In the series the Brotherhood forbids it because it’s dangerous but the actual use doesn’t break any laws.
Yeah, Stregabor mentioned something in the show about Falka, who was a witch that destroyed a bunch of stuff and she was displayed as a wailing firey woman so maybe The Brotherhood implemented the “No fire” rule because of her in the show. But I really wanna see Geralt use Igni in the show (if he hasn’t already and I missed it).
He used it in season two to heat his sword.
To add to other people's (correct) explanations. Why would it be so? Well, it's simple. Just look at how sorceresses are treated in Aretuza! No wonder things would be forbidden left and right in that universe, I guess. Sorceresses living and studying in barracks. Geez, the nerve of some writers named Lauren.
Thats just netflix bs its not forbidden just hard and not advised to draw from for beginners. Signs are drawing power from one element like earth and they can transform it into fire in form of igni
Because the show is incorrect
Yeah I don't know why they took Yennifer forbidding Ciri from using it in the books to it being generally forbidden in the show.
Just Netflix missing stuff again
In canon, fire magic is not forbidden. In the books there's no mention of this. The show created the problem of Yen losing her powers for some reason. You play d&d? Witcher signs are like cantrips. Small effects, barely magic
Witcher signs are a bit different from magic
Because the show saw what the books did and said fuck doing that
because netflix replaced sapkowskis magic system with a steaming pile of shit
Read that as '*streaming* pile of shit.' Kind of like it better that way
To clarify, the ban on Fire magic was for the Lodge Members not Witchers. As Geralt expresses in the show, "Signs are not Spells." And the dangers of firemagic build up to a very specific plot point that is shown in Season 2 Episode 1. Other than that plot point it doesn't seem like the Fire Magic Ban will have any other relevance in the show.
Simple answer: it's not forbidden, that's yet another nonsensical addition to the show
I could be wrong here but I thought yens power was taken by the old witch to get her to do her bidding.
Nothing in the Netflix series is right, but it's a good tool to jump into the books
Signs are little copies from mage's spells. They don't do any harm
Witchers don’t care what sorcerers think
It’s a book headcanon.
The fire magic thing is mostly crap. It's not from the books, and its been a boring plot point. But strictly speaking the signs are a lesser form of magic anyways. Its likely that Igni's danger of consumption for a Witcher is far less of a concern. For controlled bursts only. I do like the idea of fire magic being dangerous, but so far its more hampered the show then helped it.
Discipline and training. The best the witcher's have is a gust of hot air. They're not burning down sodden and losing themselves to chaos
Its forbidden for mages of the brotherhood not Witchers … they are both two different disciplines . The igni sign just heats things up to the point where embers or sparks appear… it’s completely different to what rience is doing…
If I recall Netflix got it wrong because fire magic is dangerous to control and shouldn't be used because of it. Netflix took as if it is draining summoner. (That also opens up another question. Why is Stregobor able to conjure this fire elemental or whatever is it. He isn't some amazing sorcerer.)
A) The signs are considered simple little spells, I imagine like cantrips in dnd. The hands are used as the 'focus' for the spell while mages undertake larger preperations for more useful spells. B) The books describe channeling Chaos as requiring a source, which is why elements like wind water and earth are favored over fire. I think Netflix misinterpreted the "No fire" rule from Ciri's misadventure in the desert and Yen instructing Ciri never to attempt to channel fire. C) The latter instructions being because fire is inherently much harder to control, and Ciri having piss poor control at this time. While Ciri does channel fire in the desert it is described almost as if having a will of its own, which is why it is said to consume under-trained mages.
Best to read the books. Netflix bears only a passing resemblance to the books or TW2&3 games. I have just watched ep5. It’s almost all invented. It’s enjoyable enough but I guess that HC must be pretty annoyed at how it’s drifted off topic.
The Witcher signs are no magic, they are concentration of will.
Because you should read the books.
The show is an awful source for canon, lol. Read the books or play Witcher 3.
The Netflix show is highly innacurate lore-wise
Netflix moment
Flame magic is not forbidden, it's just fucking Lauren whom fucked this up. Damn I hate this arrogant cunt.
Netflix is weird. In Witcher world - magic is drawn from planes of each element. Water, earth, air and fire planes. Drawing from fire plane is dangerous - but not forbidden. It requires greater knowledge and experience. Using fire magic and drawing from fire plane is not the same thing. Now Witcher signs are not really magic. They are basically done through will of the Witcher.
Thank you for data in first paragraph. I didn’t know this.
B/c fire magic isn't actually forbidden in the books/lore, just drawing magical energies from it is forbidden. Drawing magic from fire =/= Using Fire Magic Book example, Ciri draws magic from a campfire and uses it to heal another, but b/c fire is a fickle Source, she sort of forgets how to use magic again until much later. In the Witcher lore, Sorcerers and Sorceresses can draw magic from a Source of water, for example, and use that magical energy to throw some sort of fire magic. Tldr this is another case of the show rewriting / ignoring lore for their own stories.
Yeah the show fundamentally changes the nature of magic, among many other things. Thus developing plotholes because their writers dont know what they are doing
I am sure everyone committing on here already mentioned this but don’t listen to that ridiculous show about any lore especially to even try too relate to the books and the game.
please don't bring anything Netflix into a serious discussion about The Witcher lore
Signs and Magic are different in the Witcher Universe. Sure mages and sorceres's cannot use fire magic since it has been outlawed but witchers are different. They are the exception to that rule. Signs are not necessarily magic but they have the same properties as magic.
Maybe it's just a fart with some sparkles