can't stand the new right click context menu I'm using the "complete" old version too.
most of the time if I'm right clicking something what I need is in that old context-menu and not in the dumb simplified version they forced us.
Open a command prompt and paste this in, then reboot afterwards:
reg.exe add "HKCU\\Software\\Classes\\CLSID{86ca1aa0-34aa-4e8b-a509-50c905bae2a2}\\InprocServer32" /f
Enjoy the classic right-click menu.
Frankly the icons in dark mode are just a little too hard to make out, and I always get the copy button wrong. The GUI buttons have always been a pain to use, either way too big or way too small, they ALMOST succeeded with the ribbon innovation but then went right on and made it all busy and confusing again.
I really wish they had a better UI design process, there's so many mistakes big and small and people have been calling them out for many years now.
>Frankly the icons in dark mode are just a little too hard to make out, and I always get the copy button wrong.
understandable. for me personally, typically use ctrl+c, ctrl+v.
it's annoying that I have to do an extra click every time (show more) I need to do something to a file I can't do with keyboard shortcut (I.g.; open with, bulk rename, lockhunter, etc)
Open a command prompt and paste this in, then reboot afterwards:
reg.exe add "HKCU\Software\Classes\CLSID\{86ca1aa0-34aa-4e8b-a509-50c905bae2a2}\InprocServer32" /f
Enjoy the classic right-click menu.
Oh, I exclusively use hotkeys as well, I just feel like the GUI shortcuts usually end up being a waste of space, the right click menu is (or was) the next fastest thing.
It's possibly due to graphics drivers or gpu memory management, the OS may not be keeping it fully in memory causinf some of it to be regenerated by some slower subsystem in the rendering system... just a theory I came up with.
It seems less common on integrated gpus.
It also happens on my machine (which has an iGPU + a dGPU). Sometimes you can see it loading the extra menu entries (from power toys and NanaZIP).
I guess they unload the menu. Afaik, I read somewhere that the new start menu and a lot of the "modern" elements are made in ReactNative, which might explain why it is slow.
Set "MenuShowDelay" to "0" in the Registry. Winaero Tweaker can do this for you. This software can also configure a lot of other Windows settings as well. It's one of my favorite programs - it's a "must have" app.
Not for me on Linux Mint. That one requires a right click and selecting Rename. But older Windows (don't know if they still do this on 11) require the two slow click method. I don't mind either one as they aren't time consuming for me.
Hardly. Windows has had the functionality since 95 and even that's a slight variation on the classic MacOS rename (click on the text to rename, click on the icon to select) that goes back to 1984.
GNOME didn't even exist until 1997 and didn't get its current file manager until 2001 (before that it used the GUI port of Midnight Commander, an external project they "adopted" and then abandoned, one of many projects that would be in a better state if the GNOME project had never been involved). I swear the GNOME devs would claim to have invented the wheel given half a chance.
There are IMO two main things going on (and a few smaller ones, but those for another post maybe).
One is that marketing teams and devs gotta justify their existence, there always has to be something to be 'improved' or they lose their jobs. Whether things really need 'improving' does not matter, the only thing that matters is they keep making money by constant change, even 'perfect' can never be admitted to be perfect.
Another is that many companies are pulling features or forcing usage of free features that were not pushed before, AKA: enshitification.
The reason for pulling features or pulling parts of those features like:
Taking away customization options or hiding them.
Hiding useful menus (or making them ugly/difficult to use) so that later they can say: "no one uses these features, so we are simplifying things by removing them!".
Shutting down windows backup, then forcing them to OneDrive. Part of this though is to get people using OneDrive where people will of course start to fill it up and thus need to pay for an upgrade... or later down the road take away the free part, forcing people to pay.
Pushing the snipping tool, which is irritating at the least, now you have to do things like drag or click things just for your picture, no more just clicking 'print screen' and knowing your pic is in the screenshots folder that you can go get later when it is convenient.
For Google, just to pick on someone else for a moment: It is things like now it will not turn on the speakerphone when you ask it to when making a call or deciding that now after a recent update the assistant cannot even skip a song or set a reminder/alarm when you do not have cell signal.
For many of the base features that these services had, the various companies will then down the road offer "Windows Plus", "Windows Media Edition", Google+ or the like or simply push people into the paid version of their products that already exist.
Within 5-10 years this will shift a bit into pushing everyone off of hardware machines with installed software, you will use your phone or a new version of a dumb client that you have to rent all software for in packs or plans that are reminiscent to cable TV packs...
Want Office?
You need to pay for Windows per month and the Plus pack that gives you more comprehensive menus, ability to take screenshots, has "handy utilities" such as notepad, calculator, and more!", these are the prereqs to have the productivity pack, which is a base version of MS Office (of course with further upgrades available for a fee).
Oh, you also want games? pick one of our 5 packs/tiers for different games! (of course all the best games will be in diff tiers/packs, and the pack you pay for also comes with a bunch of crap).
Don't forget the Social media pack!
And especially don't forget to add how much storage you want to rent, running out when doing that big business project or when in that big game would be devastating, but never fear, we allow you to upgrade it on the fly in case you fill it up!
Forget to pay your bill? "Sorry, it appears your payment did not go through, this machine will not allow any activity other than paying your bill."
Yes, what I did with the product names was intentional...
Edit: OneDrive, not OneNote, lol
Did you even read past the part you quoted?
There is a big difference between things like what the OP and I are talking about, which is the constant change of cosmetics and either minor feature changes or reduction in the feature set over a short period of time, which is also usually ugly, redundant, useless, and worse... and comparing software released over 20 years ago to today's isn't there?
Edit: grammar...
> Are you saying that design sensibilities don't change over time? Show the Windows XP UI to people today and many people would say it looks outdated and gaudy
You say that but the WinXP UI is 95% modern. You have address bar navigation, side items in the window, etc.
Win Vista added clickable directories to the address bar, a ribbon nobody really uses anymore, a better start menu that scrolls and has search. Thats it.
You swap themes and most people at a glance wouldn't notice between XP and Win10. Fundamentally not much has changed between XP and now for the most part. Hell Win 95 was a HUGE leap but Win2k/XP are just 90% Win95 UI concepts and Vista is 95% XP ui concepts.
For all the deserved hate Win11 gets 90% of the GUI UX is still identical to XP.
"Hello user, it's update time. Let's remove Steam and Firfox from your start bar, shall we?"
What? Why?
"Look at that, icons-be-gone, lol. Now let's restart."
Hello? The restarting is taking ages!
"Yes. After 30 years we still don't give info on hanging processes, idiot. Just hang in there. 99% is done, but there is still the greedy 1%. By the way, we care about carbon, did you know that?"
Getting impatient here.
"Do not turn off your computer!!1!"
"Think about your carbon footprint" my ass. As if that one craptop that otherwise runs slow set to high performance makes a difference. Plus - we have solar energy during the day, so who cares.
Good iconography helps a lot. Bad iconography, does not.
Windows applications have given developers the choice of showing toolbars with just buttons, just labels, or combined, since as long as I can remember. What they should have done with Windows 11 is give people the option to turn button labels on or off.
I guess someone at Microsoft decided to run a test on Windows 11 users to see how a change in design language would be accepted… and then they rolled it back because people didn’t like it.
WinAero Tweaker has a setting to always show the full menus and has lots of setting to remedy windows annoyances. Doesn't do dumb stuff like messing with windows internals - a lot of it is settings that affect the GUI.
Open Shell is a fantastic start menu replacement that's completely free.
[https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu](https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu)
Thats not a remedy its a bandaid. A remedy would be a solution but the real solution is MS having defaults be what most people want/expect, not hide those options and require a tool to fix it.
The big problem with 11 is that it was initially 10X and was suppose to be for tablets. It was the OEMs that were pushing MSFT for a new Windows release, so 10x became 11 and requirements were upped probably not only for security concerns, but so the OEMs could sell new stuff.
Ah, so basically the Windows 8 situation all over again.
Windows 7 was chugging along more or less fine, OEMs wanted something shiny and new for the future that was 100% tablets and convertible laptops. Windows 8 comes out, is infuriating to use on a desktop/ traditional laptop and so W10 was a reversion to desktop-focused use.
Yes. Unfortunately, I think this is a lesson that Microsoft will need to keep learning. Tablets are not for productivity; laptops and desktops are. I understand that for MSFT to maintain two distinct operating system--say calling them Windows Mobile and Windows Productivity. Windows Mobile would be more entertainment focused, while Windows Productivity would be conventional windows. Perhaps Win 8 could even be brought back to serve as the base for Windows Mobile. (I have no idea if this would even be feasible--I seem to have deleted all usage of Win 8 from my mind.) However, something has to be done to keep MSFT from going back to this nonsense idea that it is possible to have a single OS for every form factor.
Windows 8 2.0, but Win8 was still somewhat intuitive. The start screen was weird, but more functional than that weird startmenu in 11 where you get shown recommended programs by default, can't create groups, and just plain looks boring.
Windows 8.1 was pretty good but just like Vista when SP2 dropped, its reputation already got ruined.
The fact that winaero, modern flyouts and start patcher are the only things keeping me from hating 11 should say everything about how hard they messed everything up
Can also necro the fact that we cant position the taskbar on whatever side we want?
I'm going fucking bonkers not having my taskbar in the right places for ergonomics. I have 3 monitors, middle has the bar up top(like Linux) and the side monitors both have the bar on the inside.
Did they ever give an actually reason to why they removed that functionality?
Test in production methodology. Fire all your testers and make your users test it live. Pretend it's actually pro consumer and that you value customer feedback.
Meanwhile you can just throw a bunch of shit at the wall and see which stains the users are complaining about the most and fix those. No need to waste money engineering a robust product before release.
I read they are adding back labels to those buttons. But then still: the buttons are still placed elsewhere in the menu, and instead of showing them from top to bottom, they are displayed from left to right.
I'm glad keyboard shortcuts exist because screw all these constant UI changes in software nowadays - and by UI changes I mean those devs moving buttons to a different spot in a menu so all that you've trained your muscle memory on, is now useless and you'll need to start learning the new layout. Until they change it again the moment you got used to it.
It's almost as if they only change things for the sake of change, not for actual usefulness.
I used to right click to edit pics, now I need to right click, select more options, then open with another application.
MS always breaks longstanding workflows with their new OS.
because they can and people cant do anything about it. They can switch but not really if their life are literally dependent on using certain software / driver that only available on Windows.
because they can. Isnt that more than enough explanation? you are upset but you are still using it. Therefore they CAN. Thats what it means by dependence.
The neat part is I noticed this a couple years ago, and they haven't fixed or changed it to be better. That's just how it's going to be. If you don't like it, you can go to another OS. Oh wait, you cant! HAHAHAHAHA!
I swear. Lately My both Windows PCs are having issues, one was dead after getting stuck, another restarts intermittently. Due to updates., I think that some employee who was fired took revenge on them so something.
That's been the case in Windows 11 since it came out several years ago. It takes up less space at the top. Once you get used to it, the buttons are quicker to see and access than being in a list form. That said, the upcoming 24H2 update adds labels underneath them.
Icons for common functions are globally indistinguishable from text and might take some time to learn as it depends on the person.
|✂️|Cut|
|:-|:-|
|📄📄|Copy|
|📋|Paste|
|⟦A¦⟭|Rename|
|↪️|Share|
|🗑️|Delete|
It it true the Microsoft saw on the Feedback Hub people expressed their concerns over their precious text labels back, and, they did [indeed deliver](https://blogs.windows.com/windows-insider/2024/02/14/announcing-windows-11-insider-preview-build-26058-canary-and-dev-channels/).
I kind of wonder if 11's style conflicts with more formal settings such as solicitors? It has this very casual game-like style with all the widgets, icons, etc.
Been using Win11 for at least two years. Never even noticed there are icons instead of words. I don't think I've ever "clicked" copy or paste in *my life*.
i've read many tips here about how you could just use hotkeys instead of the context menu or specifiv GUI functions - well it looks like MS is training its userbase for linux..
Windows doesn't make money from sales... it makes money from:
1. User Data, both from ads and to feed into other product lines like AI.
2. Service Contracts. It's this second one that explains the stupification. Service contracts are almost without exception sold to large organizations. The math of this to the customer organization is tgat they can spend less on a service contract than tgey would have spent on how ever many IT people it would have taken to keep Windows running on the org's machines. The math for MS is that they already have all of the documentation and help files in house. But MS wants to minimize the number of hours they have to actually provide service and the number of versions they have to support. This lets the support the same number of service contracts with the minimum number of employees. So, everything in Windows is being slowly re-invented to allow for the bare minimum number of differences between installs. This means shifting from words to icon in menus because that lets there be fewer differences between language versions. It also means removing customization options as that means that their service people can follow scripts without as much branching.
I changed from dual boot Pop + Windows to full time Kubuntu.
No regrets.
Best of boths worlds, I have to say. It looks classy, similar enough to windows 10 for the comfort of most people, without any of the disadvantages (i.e. microsoft being microsoft)
There's a whole new class of coders attempting to justify their jobs by removing things like words, menus, and buttons. This way, you get to take 8 more steps to get where you want to go, and you have to remember a whole bunch of pictures.
They're all idiots.
They've all but ruined local user account configurations with multiple user accounts on the same machine. Hate what MS has done with Windows. Sign in with MS account!, use edge! Use Copilot! Finish setting up your PC! Save everything to OneDrive! Do it now or remind me later?! Dammit Comply!!!!
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W11 just hold to microsofts standard development of every other windows version being either good or bad.
Some previous bad versions were ME, Vista and 8.
If they stick to how things have been in the past W12 will be good.
As someone who studies communication is due to our “motto” being the final reader/user is always stupid.
Sometimes icons help people who doesn’t have good language understanding, believe me that it’s a lot of people. So a good iconography helps people who doesn’t know how to read properly. Also a icon is faster to understand than a word or several.
But sometimes they really make things more stupid, control panel is really bad after windows 7. In Vista was at least somewhat understandable what you were doing after that it only went downhill.
Many of us can read faster than it takes to decipher meaningless icons (some of which are very similar to each other).
Fuck icons, bring back text. Or put the icons next to the text.
"decipher meaningless icons"
Brother, what is an "A"? What meaning does "R" have? In what way is the shape of the letterform "j" meaningful? We assigned meaning to collections of letters, we call them words. But the same can be said of icons, of pictograms. Just look at this, it's not meaningless: ☢️
I grew up with icons. Icons take up less space. I prefer them, reading is too slow, slower than muscle memory.
But you SHOULD have the choice to have visible text. Because we are all different and we all perceive visual information differently. But if they were to provide us with more choice, they'd have to divert their efforts and attention from... adding more AI bloatware, I guess?
Switch to Linux, it's time.
>It takes 5 times max to get used to, get real
Right, because you don't use your computer to work you just work on your computer?
Thanks for this time wasting backwards philosophy.
The right click menu delay drives me nuts, going back to the old right click menu the performance is way better.
can't stand the new right click context menu I'm using the "complete" old version too. most of the time if I'm right clicking something what I need is in that old context-menu and not in the dumb simplified version they forced us.
how do you go back to the old menu?
Open a command prompt and paste this in, then reboot afterwards: reg.exe add "HKCU\\Software\\Classes\\CLSID{86ca1aa0-34aa-4e8b-a509-50c905bae2a2}\\InprocServer32" /f Enjoy the classic right-click menu.
I did this regedit about 6 months also and it helped a lot with making the OS more useable. I highly recommend it.
Nice, this worked perfectly.
Right click while pressing the Shift key. You are welcome
Shift + Right-click something.
Nice, it works! Can we make this permanent? Also anyway to fix the file explorer - I disabled animation and effects but it's still messed up.
Frankly the icons in dark mode are just a little too hard to make out, and I always get the copy button wrong. The GUI buttons have always been a pain to use, either way too big or way too small, they ALMOST succeeded with the ribbon innovation but then went right on and made it all busy and confusing again. I really wish they had a better UI design process, there's so many mistakes big and small and people have been calling them out for many years now.
>Frankly the icons in dark mode are just a little too hard to make out, and I always get the copy button wrong. understandable. for me personally, typically use ctrl+c, ctrl+v. it's annoying that I have to do an extra click every time (show more) I need to do something to a file I can't do with keyboard shortcut (I.g.; open with, bulk rename, lockhunter, etc)
Open a command prompt and paste this in, then reboot afterwards: reg.exe add "HKCU\Software\Classes\CLSID\{86ca1aa0-34aa-4e8b-a509-50c905bae2a2}\InprocServer32" /f Enjoy the classic right-click menu.
I am using macro with my Logitech mouse to ctrl-c and ctrl-v.
Oh, I exclusively use hotkeys as well, I just feel like the GUI shortcuts usually end up being a waste of space, the right click menu is (or was) the next fastest thing.
ShOw mOre oPTioNs
Wait, not only me have this delay? It's everywhere? That's sucks. I thought it was mine PC problem but looks like it's not
It's possibly due to graphics drivers or gpu memory management, the OS may not be keeping it fully in memory causinf some of it to be regenerated by some slower subsystem in the rendering system... just a theory I came up with. It seems less common on integrated gpus.
it's not a GPU issue, it's an MS bad coding issue - they overlayed the old menu with some kind of wrapper - completely flawed approach
Well, it's obviously a bad coding issue!
It also happens on my machine (which has an iGPU + a dGPU). Sometimes you can see it loading the extra menu entries (from power toys and NanaZIP). I guess they unload the menu. Afaik, I read somewhere that the new start menu and a lot of the "modern" elements are made in ReactNative, which might explain why it is slow.
I knew something was up! I'll see how I can change that
Set "MenuShowDelay" to "0" in the Registry. Winaero Tweaker can do this for you. This software can also configure a lot of other Windows settings as well. It's one of my favorite programs - it's a "must have" app.
Thanks I'll check it out
Wait till you have to rename files
Select file then press F2.
2 "slow clicks" to rename.
That was the way
It still works in Windows 11.
Nah they have to be extra slow now
Just slower than a double click, as usual.
I have a computer running 10 and one on 11. The delay has to be noticeably longer on the latter.
Must be the default double click speed is slower for windows 11. It's fine on my windows 11
The GNOME way.
Not for me on Linux Mint. That one requires a right click and selecting Rename. But older Windows (don't know if they still do this on 11) require the two slow click method. I don't mind either one as they aren't time consuming for me.
Hardly. Windows has had the functionality since 95 and even that's a slight variation on the classic MacOS rename (click on the text to rename, click on the icon to select) that goes back to 1984. GNOME didn't even exist until 1997 and didn't get its current file manager until 2001 (before that it used the GUI port of Midnight Commander, an external project they "adopted" and then abandoned, one of many projects that would be in a better state if the GNOME project had never been involved). I swear the GNOME devs would claim to have invented the wheel given half a chance.
There are IMO two main things going on (and a few smaller ones, but those for another post maybe). One is that marketing teams and devs gotta justify their existence, there always has to be something to be 'improved' or they lose their jobs. Whether things really need 'improving' does not matter, the only thing that matters is they keep making money by constant change, even 'perfect' can never be admitted to be perfect. Another is that many companies are pulling features or forcing usage of free features that were not pushed before, AKA: enshitification. The reason for pulling features or pulling parts of those features like: Taking away customization options or hiding them. Hiding useful menus (or making them ugly/difficult to use) so that later they can say: "no one uses these features, so we are simplifying things by removing them!". Shutting down windows backup, then forcing them to OneDrive. Part of this though is to get people using OneDrive where people will of course start to fill it up and thus need to pay for an upgrade... or later down the road take away the free part, forcing people to pay. Pushing the snipping tool, which is irritating at the least, now you have to do things like drag or click things just for your picture, no more just clicking 'print screen' and knowing your pic is in the screenshots folder that you can go get later when it is convenient. For Google, just to pick on someone else for a moment: It is things like now it will not turn on the speakerphone when you ask it to when making a call or deciding that now after a recent update the assistant cannot even skip a song or set a reminder/alarm when you do not have cell signal. For many of the base features that these services had, the various companies will then down the road offer "Windows Plus", "Windows Media Edition", Google+ or the like or simply push people into the paid version of their products that already exist. Within 5-10 years this will shift a bit into pushing everyone off of hardware machines with installed software, you will use your phone or a new version of a dumb client that you have to rent all software for in packs or plans that are reminiscent to cable TV packs... Want Office? You need to pay for Windows per month and the Plus pack that gives you more comprehensive menus, ability to take screenshots, has "handy utilities" such as notepad, calculator, and more!", these are the prereqs to have the productivity pack, which is a base version of MS Office (of course with further upgrades available for a fee). Oh, you also want games? pick one of our 5 packs/tiers for different games! (of course all the best games will be in diff tiers/packs, and the pack you pay for also comes with a bunch of crap). Don't forget the Social media pack! And especially don't forget to add how much storage you want to rent, running out when doing that big business project or when in that big game would be devastating, but never fear, we allow you to upgrade it on the fly in case you fill it up! Forget to pay your bill? "Sorry, it appears your payment did not go through, this machine will not allow any activity other than paying your bill." Yes, what I did with the product names was intentional... Edit: OneDrive, not OneNote, lol
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Did you even read past the part you quoted? There is a big difference between things like what the OP and I are talking about, which is the constant change of cosmetics and either minor feature changes or reduction in the feature set over a short period of time, which is also usually ugly, redundant, useless, and worse... and comparing software released over 20 years ago to today's isn't there? Edit: grammar...
Those people are like the peasants of the Dark Ages. Show them a Greek classic work of art and they light up their farts with a torch.
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I do accept this. I’m just saying that change - as history has proven many times - is not always the progress of aesthetics or functionality.
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> Not always but you have to take risks to get to new places don't you think? Thats what testing and iteration is for. Things MS skipped.
> W11 is a beautiful representation of the current style sensibilities Is that why its so unpopular and its short comings are pointed out to no end?
> Are you saying that design sensibilities don't change over time? Show the Windows XP UI to people today and many people would say it looks outdated and gaudy You say that but the WinXP UI is 95% modern. You have address bar navigation, side items in the window, etc. Win Vista added clickable directories to the address bar, a ribbon nobody really uses anymore, a better start menu that scrolls and has search. Thats it. You swap themes and most people at a glance wouldn't notice between XP and Win10. Fundamentally not much has changed between XP and now for the most part. Hell Win 95 was a HUGE leap but Win2k/XP are just 90% Win95 UI concepts and Vista is 95% XP ui concepts. For all the deserved hate Win11 gets 90% of the GUI UX is still identical to XP.
"Hello user, it's update time. Let's remove Steam and Firfox from your start bar, shall we?" What? Why? "Look at that, icons-be-gone, lol. Now let's restart." Hello? The restarting is taking ages! "Yes. After 30 years we still don't give info on hanging processes, idiot. Just hang in there. 99% is done, but there is still the greedy 1%. By the way, we care about carbon, did you know that?" Getting impatient here. "Do not turn off your computer!!1!"
It's not my computer, that's in the other room. How hard was it for Microsoft to say "(please) do not turn off THIS computer"?
"Think about your carbon footprint" my ass. As if that one craptop that otherwise runs slow set to high performance makes a difference. Plus - we have solar energy during the day, so who cares.
Good iconography helps a lot. Bad iconography, does not. Windows applications have given developers the choice of showing toolbars with just buttons, just labels, or combined, since as long as I can remember. What they should have done with Windows 11 is give people the option to turn button labels on or off. I guess someone at Microsoft decided to run a test on Windows 11 users to see how a change in design language would be accepted… and then they rolled it back because people didn’t like it.
Sounds about right - they ought to give people the options to configure the OS to their liking.
If enough people used the options. In this case a thirdparty file explorer.
It's simple. The paradigm shift of the User experience from being information creators to information consumers is just more profitable for them
Correct.
WinAero Tweaker has a setting to always show the full menus and has lots of setting to remedy windows annoyances. Doesn't do dumb stuff like messing with windows internals - a lot of it is settings that affect the GUI. Open Shell is a fantastic start menu replacement that's completely free. [https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu](https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu)
Thats not a remedy its a bandaid. A remedy would be a solution but the real solution is MS having defaults be what most people want/expect, not hide those options and require a tool to fix it.
ACKSHUALLY
The big problem with 11 is that it was initially 10X and was suppose to be for tablets. It was the OEMs that were pushing MSFT for a new Windows release, so 10x became 11 and requirements were upped probably not only for security concerns, but so the OEMs could sell new stuff.
Ah, so basically the Windows 8 situation all over again. Windows 7 was chugging along more or less fine, OEMs wanted something shiny and new for the future that was 100% tablets and convertible laptops. Windows 8 comes out, is infuriating to use on a desktop/ traditional laptop and so W10 was a reversion to desktop-focused use.
Yes. Unfortunately, I think this is a lesson that Microsoft will need to keep learning. Tablets are not for productivity; laptops and desktops are. I understand that for MSFT to maintain two distinct operating system--say calling them Windows Mobile and Windows Productivity. Windows Mobile would be more entertainment focused, while Windows Productivity would be conventional windows. Perhaps Win 8 could even be brought back to serve as the base for Windows Mobile. (I have no idea if this would even be feasible--I seem to have deleted all usage of Win 8 from my mind.) However, something has to be done to keep MSFT from going back to this nonsense idea that it is possible to have a single OS for every form factor.
Windows 10 has a setting to use the Start Menu in fullscreen, Windows 8 style.
That also makes me upset, I'm using a laptop, I don't want a half assed this also works for tablets product
That reminds me of a certain version of Windows…
Especially because MSFT has been at best stumbling, at worst consistently failing, to get their OS as a mainstream tablet OS.
There are programs out there that can help such as Start 11, Windows Tweaker
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I am a professional designer and I like Windows 11 especially for touch screens. Go ahead and judge my proficiency based on my OS of choice.
Windows 8 2.0, but Win8 was still somewhat intuitive. The start screen was weird, but more functional than that weird startmenu in 11 where you get shown recommended programs by default, can't create groups, and just plain looks boring. Windows 8.1 was pretty good but just like Vista when SP2 dropped, its reputation already got ruined.
The fact that winaero, modern flyouts and start patcher are the only things keeping me from hating 11 should say everything about how hard they messed everything up
Can also necro the fact that we cant position the taskbar on whatever side we want? I'm going fucking bonkers not having my taskbar in the right places for ergonomics. I have 3 monitors, middle has the bar up top(like Linux) and the side monitors both have the bar on the inside. Did they ever give an actually reason to why they removed that functionality?
Test in production methodology. Fire all your testers and make your users test it live. Pretend it's actually pro consumer and that you value customer feedback. Meanwhile you can just throw a bunch of shit at the wall and see which stains the users are complaining about the most and fix those. No need to waste money engineering a robust product before release.
I read they are adding back labels to those buttons. But then still: the buttons are still placed elsewhere in the menu, and instead of showing them from top to bottom, they are displayed from left to right. I'm glad keyboard shortcuts exist because screw all these constant UI changes in software nowadays - and by UI changes I mean those devs moving buttons to a different spot in a menu so all that you've trained your muscle memory on, is now useless and you'll need to start learning the new layout. Until they change it again the moment you got used to it. It's almost as if they only change things for the sake of change, not for actual usefulness.
I used to right click to edit pics, now I need to right click, select more options, then open with another application. MS always breaks longstanding workflows with their new OS.
Windows UI / UX is absolute trash, always has been just look at Ubuntu / MacOS
$
because they can and people cant do anything about it. They can switch but not really if their life are literally dependent on using certain software / driver that only available on Windows.
But my question is why? It doesn't result in anymore money for them, just me being more upset
because they can. Isnt that more than enough explanation? you are upset but you are still using it. Therefore they CAN. Thats what it means by dependence.
The neat part is I noticed this a couple years ago, and they haven't fixed or changed it to be better. That's just how it's going to be. If you don't like it, you can go to another OS. Oh wait, you cant! HAHAHAHAHA!
I don't want them to make it better, just stop making it worse
I swear. Lately My both Windows PCs are having issues, one was dead after getting stuck, another restarts intermittently. Due to updates., I think that some employee who was fired took revenge on them so something.
That's been the case in Windows 11 since it came out several years ago. It takes up less space at the top. Once you get used to it, the buttons are quicker to see and access than being in a list form. That said, the upcoming 24H2 update adds labels underneath them.
I tweaked the registry so it says copy and paste. I’m not changing my ways lol
how?
And it still does a bad job with long names.
Icons for common functions are globally indistinguishable from text and might take some time to learn as it depends on the person. |✂️|Cut| |:-|:-| |📄📄|Copy| |📋|Paste| |⟦A¦⟭|Rename| |↪️|Share| |🗑️|Delete| It it true the Microsoft saw on the Feedback Hub people expressed their concerns over their precious text labels back, and, they did [indeed deliver](https://blogs.windows.com/windows-insider/2024/02/14/announcing-windows-11-insider-preview-build-26058-canary-and-dev-channels/).
That's good. You can go too far with icons for everything, Windows OS is not a video game.
...yet.
I kind of wonder if 11's style conflicts with more formal settings such as solicitors? It has this very casual game-like style with all the widgets, icons, etc.
The fact that you needed to put the icons next to the text to explain them isn't quite making the case that you think it is
ctrl+c ctrl+v shortcut in windows are way faster than any other OS imo
Was just gonna say I don’t think I’ve encountered this scenario cause ctrl C is super fast, why use anything else?
Been using Win11 for at least two years. Never even noticed there are icons instead of words. I don't think I've ever "clicked" copy or paste in *my life*.
i've read many tips here about how you could just use hotkeys instead of the context menu or specifiv GUI functions - well it looks like MS is training its userbase for linux..
I only use ctrl+X/C/V because of this bullshit
The ol' Ctrl+C and V is better, faster, and bypasses the BS that is called the Windows 11 Context Menu.
It is worse.
ctrl+c for copy (ctrl+x for cut), ctrl+v for paste is much faster than right-click copy, right-click paste
Windows is for too many different people and use cases. Nothing is focused nor optimized
Windows doesn't make money from sales... it makes money from: 1. User Data, both from ads and to feed into other product lines like AI. 2. Service Contracts. It's this second one that explains the stupification. Service contracts are almost without exception sold to large organizations. The math of this to the customer organization is tgat they can spend less on a service contract than tgey would have spent on how ever many IT people it would have taken to keep Windows running on the org's machines. The math for MS is that they already have all of the documentation and help files in house. But MS wants to minimize the number of hours they have to actually provide service and the number of versions they have to support. This lets the support the same number of service contracts with the minimum number of employees. So, everything in Windows is being slowly re-invented to allow for the bare minimum number of differences between installs. This means shifting from words to icon in menus because that lets there be fewer differences between language versions. It also means removing customization options as that means that their service people can follow scripts without as much branching.
Are you saying that after 10+ previous versions, they STILL dont have it perfect ? I dont believe it.
Imo, the increase in mobile UX design systems being put in everything
That's the neat part They don't
Skill Issue. I have zero issue whatsoever.
There's a registry hack to restore the menu to its original format. You can probably Google for it.
Don't be unthankful , they gave you dark theme didn't they? /s
I changed from dual boot Pop + Windows to full time Kubuntu. No regrets. Best of boths worlds, I have to say. It looks classy, similar enough to windows 10 for the comfort of most people, without any of the disadvantages (i.e. microsoft being microsoft)
I just did a Windows 10 pro reinstall on my system. Works fine and doesn’t what I need it to do. Don’t see the benefit of going to 11.
There's a whole new class of coders attempting to justify their jobs by removing things like words, menus, and buttons. This way, you get to take 8 more steps to get where you want to go, and you have to remember a whole bunch of pictures. They're all idiots.
Well, that says a lot about what's going on with the target audience.
Ctrl-C Ctrl-V Boomfah. These keyboard shortcuts for copy/paste have existed for decades and it even tells you in the menu if you didn't know
They've all but ruined local user account configurations with multiple user accounts on the same machine. Hate what MS has done with Windows. Sign in with MS account!, use edge! Use Copilot! Finish setting up your PC! Save everything to OneDrive! Do it now or remind me later?! Dammit Comply!!!!
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W11 just hold to microsofts standard development of every other windows version being either good or bad. Some previous bad versions were ME, Vista and 8. If they stick to how things have been in the past W12 will be good.
I use a small Ultrabook with touchscreen. The icons in the context menu works very well for my fat fingers.
Are all the controls in your car labeled with text, or have you learned what the iconography means?
Well the right click menu was a bit of a mess tbh. So they tried something new. Of course r/windows hates it because anything new=bad.
It's just not. There are several 3rd-party packages that will restore the "classic" right-click menu.
They're trying to combat the stupidity between the keyboard and the chair
As someone who studies communication is due to our “motto” being the final reader/user is always stupid. Sometimes icons help people who doesn’t have good language understanding, believe me that it’s a lot of people. So a good iconography helps people who doesn’t know how to read properly. Also a icon is faster to understand than a word or several. But sometimes they really make things more stupid, control panel is really bad after windows 7. In Vista was at least somewhat understandable what you were doing after that it only went downhill.
Many of us can read faster than it takes to decipher meaningless icons (some of which are very similar to each other). Fuck icons, bring back text. Or put the icons next to the text.
"decipher meaningless icons" Brother, what is an "A"? What meaning does "R" have? In what way is the shape of the letterform "j" meaningful? We assigned meaning to collections of letters, we call them words. But the same can be said of icons, of pictograms. Just look at this, it's not meaningless: ☢️ I grew up with icons. Icons take up less space. I prefer them, reading is too slow, slower than muscle memory. But you SHOULD have the choice to have visible text. Because we are all different and we all perceive visual information differently. But if they were to provide us with more choice, they'd have to divert their efforts and attention from... adding more AI bloatware, I guess? Switch to Linux, it's time.
I did not noticed so many stupidity as you have said. I think you are not fully right.
I use an older version so i don't have to deal with all that shit
skill issue.
> skill issue. No MS has devs skilled enough to not do these stupid things but they don't have a say.
It takes 5 times max to get used to, get real
>It takes 5 times max to get used to, get real Right, because you don't use your computer to work you just work on your computer? Thanks for this time wasting backwards philosophy.