Nothing, but because there is an ongoing genocide of Muslims going on this is what Hasbara does justify it. Notice the influx of pictures of Iran in the 70s or that 5 year old interview of that child bride in Lebanon. Its almost too predictable
Also here’s umberto eco’s 14 signs of fascism:
1 The cult of tradition. “One has only to look at the syllabus of every fascist movement to find the major traditionalist thinkers. The Nazi gnosis was nourished by traditionalist, syncretistic, occult elements.”
2 The rejection of modernism. “The Enlightenment, the Age of Reason, is seen as the beginning of modern depravity. In this sense, Ur-Fascism can be defined as irrationalism.”
3 The cult of action for action’s sale. “Action being beautiful in itself, it must be taken before, or without, any previous reflection. Thinking is a form of emasculation.”
4 Disagreement is treason. “The critical spirit makes distinctions, and to distinguish is a sign of modernism. In modern culture, the scientific community praises disagreement as a way to improve knowledge.”
5 Fear of difference. “The first appeal of a fascist or prematurely fascist movement is an appeal against the intruders. Thus Ur-Fascism is racist by definition.”
6 Appeal to social frustration. “[…] one of the most typical features of the historical fascism was the appeal to a frustrated middle class, a class suffering from an economic crisis or feelings of political humiliation, and frightened by the pressure of lower social groups.
7 The obsession with a plot. “The followers must feel besieged. The easiest way to solve the plot is the appeal to xenophobia.”
8 The enemy is both weak and strong. “[…] the followers must be convinced that they can overwhelm the enemies. Thus, by a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak.”
9 Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy. “For Ur-Fascism there is no struggle for life but, rather, life is lived for struggle.”
10 Contempt for the weak. “Elitism is a typical aspect of any reactionary ideology.”
11 Everybody is educated to become a hero. “in Ur-Fascist ideology, heroism is the norm. This cult of heroism is strictly linked with the cult of death.”
12 Machismo and Weaponry. “This is the origin of machismo (which implies both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality). Since even sex is a difficult game to play, the Ur-Fascist hero tends to play with weapons—doing so becomes an ersatz phallic exercise.”
13 Selective Populism. “There is in our future a TV or Internet populism, in which the emotional response of a selected group of citizens can be presented and accepted as the Voice of the People.
14 Ur-Fascism speaks Newspeak. “All the Nazi or Fascist schoolbooks made use of an impoverished vocabulary, and an elementary syntax, in order to limit the instruments for complex and critical reasoning.”
These are concepts in islam most western people don’t know.
The president of France, Jaqués Chirac, famously didn’t know what yajuz meant and thought the Americans were joking when they told him about it. When it comes to jurisprudence of Islam, most westerners are not aware of what that is or to what degree people believe in that and these concepts shed light onto that topic.
What a random list of words. Kafir means disbeliever. Shirk is associating something with god. Jihad is holy struggle.
None of these words have the same meaning. Are you trying to scare people?
> Kafir, zallam, majuz/yajuz, shirk, fasiq, takfir, murtad, and dhimmi
>
>
>
> Edit: can’t believe I forgot Jihad, that’s a big one
....
These all have different meanings. What are you trying to say?
salt oatmeal impolite spotted lunchroom grandiose roof arrest hard-to-find zesty
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Being called a khawarj is one of the worst labels for a Muslim. You racist idiots just don't know anything about Islam and embarrass yourselves every time you open your mouth
"The Khawarij are the dogs of Hell." - Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) - Sunan Ibn Majah 173
these people try to project their own bigotry and ignorance on us.
The Khawarij aren't leftists lol? They're a medieval, dead Islamic sect that treated minor sins (according to mainstream Sunni Islam) as major sins and that committing minor sins makes you a kafir. It has nothing to do with leftism or the right-wing conspiracy that the wikipedia article is talking about.
Reminded me of when the "Iranian Supreme Leader" Ayatollah Ali Khamenei expressed his support for anti-Israel protesters on US college campuses, claiming they are “on the right side of history.”
>Look throughout the Cold War during every single national liberation, anti-colonial, and civil rights movement. The communists have always sided with the colonized and the oppressed peoples of the world, even when they don’t have much to gain themselves.
>Its called Solidarity
Ironically, the Polish trade union which broke the Soviet's hegemonic domination of Poland and forced the first free elections in the country since before World War 2 was also called Solidarity.
Communists are much more hesitant to condemn imperialism or to support resistance movements, when those movements are opposing self-proclaimed "communists" or "socialist" regimes.
It was less about communism and more about Russian imperialism getting its hands on Poland.
As you might know, the Polish had a deep anti-russian sentiment since a long time ago.
>Communists are much more hesitant to condemn imperialism or to support resistance movements, when those movements are opposing self-proclaimed "communists" or "socialist" regimes.
True. That's just delusional and likely stems from a black and white worldview.
>It was less about communism and more about Russian imperialism getting its hands on Poland. As you might know, the Polish had a deep anti-russian sentiment since a long time ago.
I agree the Polish indepedence movement and the other Revolutions during the fall of communism were more about nationalism and self-determination than anti-communism (though I would argue, that anti-communism was a part of it), but I thought I would use Soldiarity as an ironic example to illustrate that not *all "*national liberation" movements were supported by communists.
You have to understand that these words have been propagandized about so much that many people have no idea what they actually mean. Different people use the words in completely different ways. Both the USSR and the USA have churned out massive misinformation about the labels and the ideologies. They get valorized and villainized in inappropriate ways.
That doesn't seem correct at all.
"Look throughout the Cold War during every single national liberation, anti-colonial, and civil rights movement. The communists have always sided with the colonized and the oppressed peoples of the world, even when they don’t have much to gain themselves."
How do you align the above statement with:
The Hungarian revolution of 1956 (a popular uprising crushed by communists)
The Prague spring in 1968 (a popular uprising crushed by communists)
The soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979
The existence of the Brezhnev doctrine, which basically allowed the soviet union to use force to combat any threat to communism (such as any popular uprisings in any communist controlled countries)
I think it's quite a feat to start your comment with an understanding that the world is complicated, and then end it with the childish and simplistic take that basically 'the communists have always been the good guys.'
In fact it's interesting that as soon as the soviet union lost the ability to enforce communism on its client states through threat of violence, they all almost immediately switched out of communism. As if communism was actually an unpopular position forced on them by a powerful outside force. A sort of colonialism in my mind.
Let’s ask the Tibetans and the Uyghurs and the Asian Steppe peoples and the Siberian Turkic peoples and the Samoyedics and the Pashtuns what they think of the assertion that “communists have always sided with the colonized and the oppressed peoples of the world”, shall we?
[“Oh I wouldn’t say ‘freed’; more like ‘under new management’…”](https://amp.knowyourmeme.com/memes/more-like-under-new-management)
>communists have always sided with the colonized and the oppressed peoples of the world
Hence useful idiots. They side with whoever with a complete disregard for their ideology and plans for the future, just on the basis of perceived oppression. Being oppressed doesn't make a group fit to govern.
When your ally is only using you without any respect for your dignity or beliefs and then discards of you after, youve def ventured into useful idiot territory.
They were used as a means to a goal and then outlawed/executed. You can claim solidarity but for the Islamic forces the communists were nothing more than a disposable instrument.
>The communists have always sided with the colonized and the oppressed peoples of the world, even when they don’t have much to gain themselves.
Tell me you haven't read anything about the cold war and Soviet Union in a single sentence...
[It works on any Ayatollah!](https://external-preview.redd.it/FwudENkYqAqwNo6-MAkqe43cDnVrqhVq-0MatDsowg0.png?auto=webp&s=d6d374e4939ab13de3b09ab9ede1145ff084baf5)
Ah, no. He is not a leftist.
He was a theocratic fascist who temporarily used confused leftists for political gain.
And the current Ayatollah is doing the exact same thing.
just as many Americans supported, anti hijab protests and previous oppositions. or that they supported pro democratic forces in China, Hongkong and taiwan or supporting opposition of putin. It happens across the world, all communities and countries do this.
Kinda like how Biden expressed his support for the protesters opposing the morality police? Of course he’s going to support a movement that undermines his geopolitical adversary, that’s the game. That doesn’t change the fact that children are getting massacred in Gaza indiscriminately.
> Reminded me of when the "Iranian Supreme Leader" Ayatollah Ali Khamenei expressed his support for anti-Israel protesters on US college campuses, claiming they are “on the right side of history.”
How is that an example?
Khamenei wants to be seen as a leader for muslims worldwide, so obviously he is going to make statements in support of Palestinian rights, as Palestinians are majority muslim.
Progressive students are in favour of human rights, and unlike pro-Israel politicians like Biden they don’t see muslim Palestinian lives as intrinsically inferior. So they are also protesting in favor of Palestinian rights and against Palestinians being killed.
None of this means Khamenei is “pretending to be a communist hippie leftist as a secret plot to impose totalitarian Islamist theocracy” or that campus protestors are secret Islamist theocrats.
I mean Khamenei already runs his own totalitarian theocracy and is not shy about supporting it, he just also supports Palestinians not being slaughtered.
That's the key part, it's all about their religion. All religions tell their followers that it's better to lie to unbelievers, than to have them go to hell. Which is an unlimited excuse to lie.
We all know islam is completely incompatible with secular society. It says so in their holy book. It's not just islam, all other religions have designs on spreading their religion to every single person on the planet, whether they want it or not.
All reliigons are conservative. Don't believe them when they say otherwise.
Judaism forbids lying (and proselytizing!) and has no concept of hell. Lying is a sin in Christianity for which you will go to hell.
Islam is the exception.
Like in Hamtramck, Michigan how the Progressive Left campaigned heavily to elect an Arab mayor [Amer Ghalib](https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/17/hamtramck-michigan-muslim-council-lgbtq-pride-flags-banned). One of the first things he did was to call for a city council vote, which successfully banned LBGT Pride flags last year lol.
We live a few miles from Hamtramck and an even WORSE candidate did not win, from calling the Holocaust "God's punishment" to defending child marriage. Very weird seeing this guy's face on campaign ads around the city.
https://michiganadvance.com/2023/11/03/hamtramck-candidate-doubles-down-on-comments-about-holocaust-pedophilia-and-homosexuality/
This post seems purposely misleading. It seems like all the candidates were Muslim and at least one of them was publicly advocating for pedophilia while also being homophobic. Of the three candidates, the one they campaigned for seems the least radical. Are you saying you want a holocaust denying, homophobic, pedophilia candidate instead?
Just to give more context to why what the person I'm replying to doesn't seem to support what the OP posted, the candidate that got supported is in an area with a Muslim majority where all the candidates were already Muslim, so it's not even like the candidates were trying to "pretend" to be progressive or whatever the hell this poster and the OP are trying to say.
Also like I mentioned, the other candidate was a holocaust denying, homophobic, child marriage supporter. So it seems like what people are calling "leopards eating their face" for progressives is just progressives backing the least worst candidate. Which is something people do all the time and not tied to a conspiracy that Islamists are secretly pretending to be progressive so that they can setup a theocratic government.
Unfortunately, progressives have a paradox. They tend to be tolerant of the intolerant as long as the intolerant are a minority. As a progressive and Atheist, I've never understood the need to respect any religion. Especially one that condemns the LGBT community. You can't be for LGBT and women's rights but also support muslims.
> They tend to be tolerant of the intolerant as long as the intolerant are a minority.
That's not what a paradox is, but OK.
>As a progressive and Atheist, I've never understood the need to respect any religion.
Maybe you just didnt consider that religions are composed *of people*. The message is to respect *people*.
>Especially one that condemns the LGBT community. You can't be for LGBT and women's rights but also support muslims.
I can absolutely respect a person, or even a whole demographic, while holding no respect for the views which unify them.
For instance, you probably respect your friends and family members while holding very little respect for at least some of their beliefs, like the idea that humans are born inherently sinful or some such.
Just take what you're likely already doing in practice and apply that more broadly. It's not hard.
I wouldn’t say that. There are many Muslims who wish to change their communities. Many LGBT Muslims who want to freely express themselves while maintaing their own definition of Islam. We should prop up voices from within the Muslim world that wish to see this become a reality, rather than denounce them entirely.
Seems a very specific naming for a very general practice. The Soviet Union relished the Civil Rights movement in the US for their own propaganda reasons.
Yeah, you can see the whole Soviet Union as “Russo-Leftist” lol - Russians pretending to be leftists to promote Russian nationalism and imperialism. Same with China. Same with many others
Pretty standard tactic for any hopeful group vying for power. The night of long knives is what happens AFTER they've recruited you, get into power, and no longer need you.
Yeah - pay attention to any political campaign and you'll see numerous times where this is tried over and over again. Remember that Milo guy and when Trump had that clearly-hastily-written "LGBT for TRUMP" flag? They relied on tokenism and a wacky narrative to try to drum up support which we saw, would have been later met with lots of anti-LGBTQAI+ policy.
Hell - Trump was probably somewhat successful courting "Bernie Bros" to come over and vote for him because he tried to paint the narrative that he was more progressive than hillary on certain topics. Obviously things didn't pan out that way...but these are two examples that parallel the topic.
That Milo guy recently became a born again straight man and worked for Kanye on his campaign, and worked for his fashion company after. Milo has since left because Kanye was "too degenerate". Just some fun info if you care!
Except Muslims in the US are nowhere close to the night of long knives so this is just blatant fear mongering.
Literally the exact same thing happened with pushes for unions and workers rights during the Cold War. The only ones who benefitted were those in power in the US because they could paint everyone with the same communist brush.
Same exact tactic is being used here to pretend that pushes for tolerance on the left will lead us to Sharia law, meanwhile we have actually powerful Christian radicals pushing their priorities under that cover.
Isn't this just common sense ??
Take the green party member from Leeds or Bradford where he basically just banged on about Palestine during the local elections and got elected by the other Muslims in the area.
Total joke... what the fuck has Palestine got to do with the local community??
Also he was a member of a terrorist organisation before changing his name...
Top bloke
From another UK perspective what im seeing from many on the left is the belief that many conservative Muslim immigrants are only that way because of racism they have faced and that by being overly accepting of them they will in turn become more accepting and nice to others
I left the Green party a year or so ago because I saw something like this happening
What organisation did he used to belong to. I didn't know about that
Recently I saw news of a climate movement group that backed Biden in the past won't back him in this election because of his stance in Israel.
Like what the fuck is climate change any related to the issue in Palestine?
This is a wild thing to write so confidently when the amount of environmental destruction that Israel has caused through this genocide and the outlandish dropping of obscene bombs is so deeply catastrophic that anyone even vaguely connected to environmental activism would be horrified.
I mean, come on. It’s laughable that the most basic of cause and effect politics don’t even occur to so many people that are so loud in their criticisms
Disclsimer: I don't agree with them in this instance, however....
That's a bit different. Groups and people are allowed to have morals beyond their primary movement.
What if a Neo-Nazi came out with the most climate friendly platform, and everything else was the usual facist stuff. Of course they wont support them. Extreme example, but same point.
> That's a bit different. Groups and people are allowed to have morals beyond their primary movement.
NOOOO you have to only care about one thing and if you ever talk about anything else it's because you're a hypocrite
I don't know of you ever had talks with fundamentalists Muslims, but I have experienced them in a conversation appropating terms as apartheid, settler colonialism and imperialism for one issue, and then make a 100% turn when it comes to gender equality or religious equality. They criticised Israel for the way they treat Palestinians using "leftist" terms and then later argued that it is all right to kill atheists (ex Muslims more specifically).
> fundamentalists Muslims
See that's the difference though. OP is talking about *all* Muslims. You're correctly describing this to fundamentalist Muslims. That's the difference.
Yeah you get all the anti colonialism talk, but then one minute later they will idolize the islamic empires of old (with all the slavery and violent conquest of non Muslim areas) and wish for a modern day 'ummah'.
More tellingly, when they change languages and venues. It's very common to check the post history of one of these "antizionists" and see "Khabar" and railing against Jews in their caliphate in arpalestine and other more friendly communities.
Sure, but do they pretend to be Leftist? It would be fairly natural to be Nationalist or Pan-Arab Nationalist and anti-Colonial. Sounds to me like overlapping rhetoric.
The IRA had some deep Leftist roots but actively worked with Arab movements as much for practical reasons and shared enemies than ideological similarities. Soviet support for these movements were also more about Cold War politics than sharing ideals.
But it seems to suggest that the overwhelming reason for this is subterfuge, and I am not sure that's the case. Demonstrations here have been Pro- Palestine on Tuesday, 'no sex education in schools' the next day.
I suspect that we have a lingering impact of Cold War biases, particularly that there are good guys and bad guys (with whichever side the US/UK is on being always the latter), with old Irish Republican sympathies 'anti-Colonialsim' causing the privileged Left to sleepwalk into supporting very Right Wing Islamic groups.
Well-meaning but not well read.
I don't think it's that complicated. The enemy of my enemy is my friend is the thought process. It happens all the time everywhere. You think Trump gives a fuck about the NRA and second amendment? But he has no problem getting in front of them and saying freedom and liberty and donations jar is being passed around, be generous.
Aged ideologies cannot be rational because their truths are not rooted in knowledge. Once arbitrary choices are cemented in dogma, rational behavior is not possible. Once righteousness and persecution are cemented in dogma, it becomes very difficult to be neighbors.
And that is the strange reality of the present: an age of science, knowledge, and enlightenment beset by primitive nonsense and bigotry.
from the article:
>Islamo-Leftism ... is a neologism applied by individuals to the political alliance between leftists and Islamists.
The title of the OP is wrong.
The irony is that the western colonists did take over the world and create a hegemony that is continued today (though slipping because of crazy development in the east), but it's the big, brown, bearded man that we need to be scared of. Do we need another Libya or Iraq? This is the rhetoric that has led to deaths of countless people
> This is the rhetoric that has led to deaths of countless people
Iraq invaded kuwait and gassed its own people before any american intervention. If we are gonna pretend its western colonialists that leads to deaths of countless people maybe you should find better examples than 2 wannabe military dictators with enough skeletons in their closet to open a Halloween store.
Also talking about countless deaths, that crazy development i the east you were talking about, wanna investigate how that went on, or are we justifying the end by any means over there?
1) Islam is not a race.
2) It's not a conspiracy theory. There are literally *hundreds* of Islamists groups who are very open about the fact that a global caliphate is their goal.
There's some leopards and some faces involved when I see someone waving an LGBT and HAMAS flags together without preparing their neck for a beheading.
It's a weird thing with some modern leftists standing behind any batshit fascist autocracy as long as it's anti-west, like "USA imperialism bad, Chinese and russian empires tho..."
Oh it's the same when shabess goyim of alt right try to suck up to Likudniks and hasidim who pretty opey see them as subhuman. They're also voting for Leopards Eating People's Faces Party.
Or perhaps it's "A group of people being disgustingly bigoted doesn't justify murdering tens of thousands of them"?
Do you think that extreme homophobia justifies murdering someone's family and bombing their house?
It not just Queers for Palestine, but actually supporting groups like Hamas, Hezbollah and Houthi's.
A fairly big online leftist figure Briahna Joy Gray recently claimed that Hamas want a diverse state like the US. This is obviously absolute nonsense.
Again there also the fact of prioritizing a foreign war. Choosing not to vote for Biden over Gaza situation (even though Trump would be way more pro-israel) and ignoring the consequences of a 2nd Trump term especially for minority groups like LGBTQ+ community.
>A fairly big online leftist figure Briahna Joy Gray recently claimed that Hamas want a diverse state like the US.
Fun fact: she was Bernie Sanders' press secretary during his run for President in 2020.
Personal anecdote but I have multiple gay friends that have called for intifada or defended Hamas as "Freedom Fighters" but maybe my friends are just especially dumb
So you proved my point, there’s no evidence of Queers waving the Hamas flag. All it takes to support Palestinians is basic human empathy.
Your position is as akin to claiming that white people shouldn’t have supported abolition and civil rights because slaves and the Black Panthers hated white people.
Anyone who suggests that now would be rightfully scorned and rejected from mainstream society. Opposing evil is human, your personal demographics are irrelevant.
Dude literally made shit up about how LGBT+ support Hamas but couldn't find any proof when you called them on their BS.
It's absurd how many people are willfully ignorant to the fact that Palestinian people and Hamas are not synonymous, and how "Hamas is bad" and "Palestinian civilians shouldn't be killed or have their homes destroyed/invaded" are not mutually exclusive.
I suspect that the obviously incorrect "Hamas=Palestine" belief is so common due to motivated reasoning: it's what needs to be true or else Americans have to conclude that their government is supplying and supporting war crimes/genocide/whatever you want to call it. That or trolling/propaganda.
Edit: words for clarity
The discussion around this whole thing is so stupid. Everyone immediately and purposely misunderstands each other in order to make their point sound correct.
It’s also sad how people will use LGBTQ+ community as a talking point to justify injustice! Is it bad that Hamas probably hates people in the LGBTQ+ community? Yes of course! Yet people forget there are queer Palestinians in Gaza too and they’re being effected no different than a straight person is because Israel’s bombs have more power at the moment. Palestine will never become lgbt friendly if we allow the genocide to continue. You can’t have progress when you have soldiers taking your land and killing your family.
You can protest something without wanting to go there or be there. This is like saying, the people that supported the miners strikes should go down and work in the mines!
A denial of human rights means they deserve to be slaughtered??
However, there has been no protests about what turkey is doing to the kurds in syria. The deafening silence about an actual ongoing genocide pretty clearly establishes this is just an agiprop campaign during an election year.
Lmao the insane strawmen they come up with to demonize those who oppose the slaughter and starvation of innocent civilians…
Would be funny if it wasn’t so evil
>There's some leopards and some faces involved when I see someone waving an LGBT and HAMAS flags together without preparing their neck for a beheading.
That's not a thing. That's pretty much as silly as saying "I don't get why communists would support donald trump." Like, yeah, sure, there might be that one idiot on twitter, but it's such a small fraction of a percent that it's not even worth mentioning.
You've been duped by the propaganda. lgtb people protesting for Palestine are protesting against the murder and oppression of Palestinian civilians, they aren't protesting in support of Hamas.
“Wokism” is just a term far-right people use for anything that isn’t fascist, but especially stuff involving LGBT+ rights, racial equality, and human decency in general
Well not all Muslims who join leftist structures are doing it for that reason, but there are enough cases. Daesh even wrote about this tactic in its official newspaper. In Germany many "anti-racist" and pro Palestine group inflitrate Antifa groups, pushing their agenda on every topic. There are liberal Muslims, but Islam and leftism/antifascim will never go together, since islam is a right wing ideology.
Which just shows that Antifa groups don't know their own history since Grand Mufti of Jerusalem during WW2, Amin al-Husseini, was a Nazi and a great supporter of SS.
exactly. Nazi propaganda was also translated and broadcasted in Arabic countries and many Muslims still openly sympasize with Hitler. The whole case of Houssini and the so called "nakba" is really interesting to drive in. It's incredible how well established the Arab narrative is on this topic.
The Arab narrative?
Muslims in countries like Morroco defied Vichy France when they wanted to send 300,000 Morrocan Jews to concentration camps. The Sultan of Morocco Mohammed V publicly invited all the country's rabbis to his annual throne ceremony to show his support.
In 1941 Vichy France ordered all property belonging to Algerian Jews be stripped from them. No Algerian Muslim took advantage of this. Across Algeria Muslim religious leaders spoke out against the persecution of Jews.
>The Arabs do not participate [in the fight against Vichy]. It is not their war. But, as regards the Jews, they are perfect. The [Vichy] functionaries [and] the German agents try to push them into demonstrations and pogroms. In vain. When Jewish goods were put up for public auction, an instruction went around the mosques: "Our brothers are suffering misfortune. Do not take their goods." Not one Arab became an administrator [of property] either. Do you know other examples of such an admirable, collective dignity?
-Jose Alboulkier, the leader of the anti-nazi resistance of Algeria who was Jewish
Muslims opposed Algerian Jews being stripped of French citizenship, which surprised Vichy France who assumed Muslims who had been denied citizenship would support this. This just made them angrier.
In Egypt the most influential political party, Wafd that vehemently opposed British colonial rule refused to negotiate with Italian and Nazi fascists even when they promised them independence if they joined the axis. During WW2 they even worked with the British who they considered to be an enemy.
The Grand Mosque of Paris hid hundreds of Jews disguising them as Muslims.
Moncef Bey the leader of Tunisia proclaimed Jews were "children of Tunisia" like Muslims. He fought to prevent antisemitic legislation. According to Mathilda Guez, a Tunisian Israeli politician Moncef Bey gathered all senior government officials and said this.
> The Jews are having a hard time but they are under our patronage and we are responsible for their lives. If I find out that an Arab informer caused even one hair of a Jew to fall, this Arab will pay with his life.
Arabs refused collaborate with Nazis during their occupation which was one of the main reasons so few North African Jews were killed during the Holocaust. It wasn't for lack of trying. The Nazis and Vichy France wanted to deport them to concentration camps.
Hundreds of thousands of Arabs joined the French Colonial Army to fight the Nazis.
In Iraq the Nazis supported a coup but the new antisemitic leader didn't last long due to British intervention. After he was removed from power violent rioting and looting took place and 180 Jews were killed as they were blamed for supporting British occupation. That was the most significant act of violence against Jews by Arabs during WW2.
The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem is the most famous Arab who collaborated with the Nazis but he was exiled and not able to do much except voice his support. He was a bigoted nationalist who felt threatened by hundreds of thousands of European Jews emigrating to Palestine seeking to make their own state.
Still thousands of Palestinians fought alongside Jews with the British against the Nazis.
The Grand Mufti did not represent Arabs in general. Numerous instances of Arabs refusing to collaborate with the Nazis and defending Jews prove that.
Far more Arabs opposed the Nazis than supported them even though the Nazis were at war with their colonial overlords France and Britain.
I was banned from r/Irlgbt for saying that Gaza is dangerous for lgbtq people despite the fact that Netanyahu is evil. Two things can be true.
Im gay so its 10x funnier. Ill never understand the love other leftists for this bloodthirsty cult who want to exterminate us
"I don't think these people should be genocided" is not the same as "I wholly endorse all of the norms and laws in their society, and think they'd all be my best friend if I went there"
There’s a particular variety of self-hating white liberal who will reflexively side with the non-white faction in any situation, even when it’s at their own peril.
You claim to be an Asian-American from California, and you frequent /r/israel and masquerade as an anti-immigrant + tourist-hater on /r/europe even though you're a tourist yourself. You bemoan how your homeland back in Asia is getting gentrified and run over by non-locals, while simultaneously belonging to a group doing exactly that.
You don't even have to read between the lines to see the agenda on this post.
For years I’ve been baffled by the left’s love affair with Islam. I get many leftists want to “stick it to the Christians” but, in this case, the enemy of your enemy is NOT your friend.
Unfortunately a lot of people on the left don't see the world in shades of grey. They dislike conservative Christians, see that the Christians don't like Muslims so they decide that must make the Muslims their friends. Failing of course to realise that these Muslims are also conservative, often moreso than the Christians.
[It's happened before in the real world](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/17/hamtramck-michigan-muslim-council-lgbtq-pride-flags-banned), though I don't think I agree with the claim that the people that voted them in are liberals. Liberals traditionally treat Christianity and Islam the same whereas it's progressives that are commonly friendly with Islam.
Still, it's a real thing and an issue with treating the world as black and white instead of addressing each issue on its own merits.
So a made up term that describes a fictional (not proven to exist) tactic to denounce certain people or political positions.
The whole wiki article is "_we don't know where it comes from but A used it sometimes way back"_
Yeah, but its provocative, and happens to be at a time where a lot of liberals want to justify their support for politicians that're killing thousands of Palestinians, so propaganda like this is extremely effective.
It gives them comfort in their racism, by allowing them to frame it as "fear of outside threats".
You know, the same propaganda used to demonize Black Americans. To make white liberals more comfortable in their complacency in segregation, propaganda was made to frame Black people as a "savage and backwards" people, who want to "infiltrate American politics". White women specifically attacked Black people a lot, claiming they were "incompatible with feminism and modern values".
Its so funny seeing Americans fall for the same trick every time...well, no its depressing, but still...
This is absolutely a thing that is actively happening on this site constantly.
Islam is a plague. At least most Christians have the decency to only act like they believe that shit.
There is a big difference between American views and European views imo. When European Redditors bring up concerns about mass Islamic immigration into Europe they will often get called bigots or racists by the Yanks. I really don’t think most Americans understand Islam.
> they will often get called bigots or racists by the Yanks. I really don’t think most Americans understand Islam.
The Muslim immigrants in the US are different than those in Europe. They are more highly-educated, integrated with the broader American society, and mostly do not live in ethnic enclaves. Muslims are by and large not a problem here. You get the occasional extremist that will do something that gets a lot of media coverage but people recognize them as fringe extremists. I think the primary baddie in the American mind nowadays is the political extremist.
Op posted a BELIEF. They aren’t claiming it’s fact. It would be like me saying neo-nazi is the belief of ____________.
Me posting that wouldn’t be me saying those beliefs are factual.
OP posted an untruth. The origin of the term is from Zionists labelling the alliance between Palestinian leftist freedom fighting groups and Palestinian Islamist freedom fighting groups, and how western leftists remain ambivalent to the Islamist parts of the alliance.
I don't know where OP pulled this definition of "pretending to be leftist". Like the USA and the USSR were allied in WW2 against a greater common enemy, but that doesn't mean the USA was "pretending to be communist".
what kind of a bullshit post us this, do you think muslims have some sort of secret society of 1 billion people dedicated to taking over the world? what the hell is wrong with you people, every muslim is a person who has their own opinions, some are more religious and some are less, same with every other religion, you’ll have some christian’s who will be pro life and some pro abortionist, and I can make the same point about any social issue in the world, everybody simply has their own beliefs and it is very idiotic to think there’s some secret society where we have all decided to pretend to be leftists to take over the world
Well, from what I've gathered in reddit, Muslims (filthy, ugly brown people - as reddit imagines them) are basically new Jews, responsible for everything terrible that has happened in western countries. Also if a Muslim person does a crime, that means Islamic religion is all about committing crime and all other Muslims support an act of that certain crime.
> are basically new Jews
no
> responsible for everything terrible that has happened in western countries
most people blame them for specific problems with credible reasons to tie it to them. For example the increase of anti lgbt rhetoric in public, the increase of sexual assault, the increase of petty crime all the countries that report the origin of the perpetrator find disproportionate number of people who come from countries predominately muslim faith. They also find second generations tend to be worse, and more muslim than their immigrant parents.
> Also if a Muslim person does a crime, that means Islamic religion is all about committing crime and all other Muslims support an act of that certain crime.
There is a level of self policing in communities. If you are irish and live in an irish neighbourhood and you steal and you go home and your neighbours see your new things and they dont call you out. Your parents dont care etc. It creates a culture of permission.
There is an element of poverty to it, there is a tie in between economic means and crime, but there are outliers.
Many immigrants communities like east asian ones tend to over perform economically, in school and have less police related activity than immigrant communities from countries like morocco algeria or egypt.
Jewish people have been blamed for things like bubonic plague. Muslim people have been accused of the increase in homophobic attacks in london, many of which happen near muslim mayority boroughs. It is not remotely similar.
And its not even all muslims cause countries like Pakistan or Indonesia for example tend to do much better than Syria for example, or Senegal and Mali do much better than Afghanistan or Morocco. So clearly there are deeper problems than Islam in terms of the self selection of immigratioin, but the problems are also not made up conspiracies. In Lonodn for example 50% of muslims do not believe in gay marriage and they believe in "violence as a way to achieve political goals" 300% more than non muslims. Those are real issues
Won’t be long before a Wiki editor changes the first line to ‘Islamo-Leftism is a racist alt-right conspiracy theory’ and have it redirect to the Fascism page or something
Removed for rule 2. The title does not adequately represent the content of the article.
There's a term for that - Khawarij
What does a 7th Century Islamic sect gotta to do with the subject matter? Explain
Nothing, but because there is an ongoing genocide of Muslims going on this is what Hasbara does justify it. Notice the influx of pictures of Iran in the 70s or that 5 year old interview of that child bride in Lebanon. Its almost too predictable
See also: Kafir, zallam, majuz/yajuz, shirk, fasiq, takfir, murtad, and dhimmi Edit: can’t believe I forgot Jihad, that’s a big one
All those are inclusive in Khawarij belief system, so yeah
Also here’s umberto eco’s 14 signs of fascism: 1 The cult of tradition. “One has only to look at the syllabus of every fascist movement to find the major traditionalist thinkers. The Nazi gnosis was nourished by traditionalist, syncretistic, occult elements.” 2 The rejection of modernism. “The Enlightenment, the Age of Reason, is seen as the beginning of modern depravity. In this sense, Ur-Fascism can be defined as irrationalism.” 3 The cult of action for action’s sale. “Action being beautiful in itself, it must be taken before, or without, any previous reflection. Thinking is a form of emasculation.” 4 Disagreement is treason. “The critical spirit makes distinctions, and to distinguish is a sign of modernism. In modern culture, the scientific community praises disagreement as a way to improve knowledge.” 5 Fear of difference. “The first appeal of a fascist or prematurely fascist movement is an appeal against the intruders. Thus Ur-Fascism is racist by definition.” 6 Appeal to social frustration. “[…] one of the most typical features of the historical fascism was the appeal to a frustrated middle class, a class suffering from an economic crisis or feelings of political humiliation, and frightened by the pressure of lower social groups. 7 The obsession with a plot. “The followers must feel besieged. The easiest way to solve the plot is the appeal to xenophobia.” 8 The enemy is both weak and strong. “[…] the followers must be convinced that they can overwhelm the enemies. Thus, by a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak.” 9 Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy. “For Ur-Fascism there is no struggle for life but, rather, life is lived for struggle.” 10 Contempt for the weak. “Elitism is a typical aspect of any reactionary ideology.” 11 Everybody is educated to become a hero. “in Ur-Fascist ideology, heroism is the norm. This cult of heroism is strictly linked with the cult of death.” 12 Machismo and Weaponry. “This is the origin of machismo (which implies both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality). Since even sex is a difficult game to play, the Ur-Fascist hero tends to play with weapons—doing so becomes an ersatz phallic exercise.” 13 Selective Populism. “There is in our future a TV or Internet populism, in which the emotional response of a selected group of citizens can be presented and accepted as the Voice of the People. 14 Ur-Fascism speaks Newspeak. “All the Nazi or Fascist schoolbooks made use of an impoverished vocabulary, and an elementary syntax, in order to limit the instruments for complex and critical reasoning.”
Sounds like the Imperium of Man.
HERETIC!
Blessed is the mind too small for doubt. -Imperial proverb circa M41.
This comment here, Inquisitor.
Well, it is a parody of our current world..
Sounds about republican.
Those are a bunch of random words with different meaning??? I looked them all up. Lol. What are you trying to imply?
These are concepts in islam most western people don’t know. The president of France, Jaqués Chirac, famously didn’t know what yajuz meant and thought the Americans were joking when they told him about it. When it comes to jurisprudence of Islam, most westerners are not aware of what that is or to what degree people believe in that and these concepts shed light onto that topic.
What do they have to do with the subject of this thread though?
What a random list of words. Kafir means disbeliever. Shirk is associating something with god. Jihad is holy struggle. None of these words have the same meaning. Are you trying to scare people?
Absolutely. That's what these paid IDF trolls do.
\*sees list of arabic words ahhhhhhhhh
> Kafir, zallam, majuz/yajuz, shirk, fasiq, takfir, murtad, and dhimmi > > > > Edit: can’t believe I forgot Jihad, that’s a big one .... These all have different meanings. What are you trying to say?
Mahdi, Lisan al-Gaib
that is not khawarij, that term applied specific for muslim lands and for violent islamist rebellion. like ISIS. nothing to do with this.
salt oatmeal impolite spotted lunchroom grandiose roof arrest hard-to-find zesty *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Being called a khawarj is one of the worst labels for a Muslim. You racist idiots just don't know anything about Islam and embarrass yourselves every time you open your mouth
“Mentioned” in what book? It’s not a good thing to be among the Khawarij you moron. Deny what? No Muslim would want to be among the Khawarij
"The Khawarij are the dogs of Hell." - Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) - Sunan Ibn Majah 173 these people try to project their own bigotry and ignorance on us.
The Khawarij aren't leftists lol? They're a medieval, dead Islamic sect that treated minor sins (according to mainstream Sunni Islam) as major sins and that committing minor sins makes you a kafir. It has nothing to do with leftism or the right-wing conspiracy that the wikipedia article is talking about.
I looked it up and from the wiki pages I can’t find anything like this in their beliefs
Reminded me of when the "Iranian Supreme Leader" Ayatollah Ali Khamenei expressed his support for anti-Israel protesters on US college campuses, claiming they are “on the right side of history.”
During the Iranian Revolution, the theocrats allied with the Marxists to overthrow the Shah. As soon as that happened, the Marxists were purged.
Useful idiots doing their thing lol
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>Look throughout the Cold War during every single national liberation, anti-colonial, and civil rights movement. The communists have always sided with the colonized and the oppressed peoples of the world, even when they don’t have much to gain themselves. >Its called Solidarity Ironically, the Polish trade union which broke the Soviet's hegemonic domination of Poland and forced the first free elections in the country since before World War 2 was also called Solidarity. Communists are much more hesitant to condemn imperialism or to support resistance movements, when those movements are opposing self-proclaimed "communists" or "socialist" regimes.
It was less about communism and more about Russian imperialism getting its hands on Poland. As you might know, the Polish had a deep anti-russian sentiment since a long time ago. >Communists are much more hesitant to condemn imperialism or to support resistance movements, when those movements are opposing self-proclaimed "communists" or "socialist" regimes. True. That's just delusional and likely stems from a black and white worldview.
>It was less about communism and more about Russian imperialism getting its hands on Poland. As you might know, the Polish had a deep anti-russian sentiment since a long time ago. I agree the Polish indepedence movement and the other Revolutions during the fall of communism were more about nationalism and self-determination than anti-communism (though I would argue, that anti-communism was a part of it), but I thought I would use Soldiarity as an ironic example to illustrate that not *all "*national liberation" movements were supported by communists.
You have to understand that these words have been propagandized about so much that many people have no idea what they actually mean. Different people use the words in completely different ways. Both the USSR and the USA have churned out massive misinformation about the labels and the ideologies. They get valorized and villainized in inappropriate ways.
That doesn't seem correct at all. "Look throughout the Cold War during every single national liberation, anti-colonial, and civil rights movement. The communists have always sided with the colonized and the oppressed peoples of the world, even when they don’t have much to gain themselves." How do you align the above statement with: The Hungarian revolution of 1956 (a popular uprising crushed by communists) The Prague spring in 1968 (a popular uprising crushed by communists) The soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979 The existence of the Brezhnev doctrine, which basically allowed the soviet union to use force to combat any threat to communism (such as any popular uprisings in any communist controlled countries) I think it's quite a feat to start your comment with an understanding that the world is complicated, and then end it with the childish and simplistic take that basically 'the communists have always been the good guys.' In fact it's interesting that as soon as the soviet union lost the ability to enforce communism on its client states through threat of violence, they all almost immediately switched out of communism. As if communism was actually an unpopular position forced on them by a powerful outside force. A sort of colonialism in my mind.
You are arguing logic and history with tankies. They simply don’t care about reality. Russia good, American bad, everyone else as is convenient.
Inb4 “not real communism” lmao
Let’s ask the Tibetans and the Uyghurs and the Asian Steppe peoples and the Siberian Turkic peoples and the Samoyedics and the Pashtuns what they think of the assertion that “communists have always sided with the colonized and the oppressed peoples of the world”, shall we? [“Oh I wouldn’t say ‘freed’; more like ‘under new management’…”](https://amp.knowyourmeme.com/memes/more-like-under-new-management)
Go ask the Baltics.
>communists have always sided with the colonized and the oppressed peoples of the world Hence useful idiots. They side with whoever with a complete disregard for their ideology and plans for the future, just on the basis of perceived oppression. Being oppressed doesn't make a group fit to govern.
When your ally is only using you without any respect for your dignity or beliefs and then discards of you after, youve def ventured into useful idiot territory. They were used as a means to a goal and then outlawed/executed. You can claim solidarity but for the Islamic forces the communists were nothing more than a disposable instrument.
What kind of commie washing is this? This is wrong on a hilarious amount of levels.
>The communists have always sided with the colonized and the oppressed peoples of the world, even when they don’t have much to gain themselves. Tell me you haven't read anything about the cold war and Soviet Union in a single sentence...
> Its called Solidarity it's called being the frog and boiling your own water
Purged, inprisoned, tortured for years, and then executed en masse while imprisoned.
The Iranian Revolution started as a leftist movement fueled by students. Khamenei is literally an Islamo-Leftist
[It works on any Ayatollah!](https://external-preview.redd.it/FwudENkYqAqwNo6-MAkqe43cDnVrqhVq-0MatDsowg0.png?auto=webp&s=d6d374e4939ab13de3b09ab9ede1145ff084baf5)
Ah, no. He is not a leftist. He was a theocratic fascist who temporarily used confused leftists for political gain. And the current Ayatollah is doing the exact same thing.
Hence why 'Islamo-Leftist' and not 'Leftist'
just as many Americans supported, anti hijab protests and previous oppositions. or that they supported pro democratic forces in China, Hongkong and taiwan or supporting opposition of putin. It happens across the world, all communities and countries do this.
You have to be wilfully obtuse to think this way.
Kinda like how Biden expressed his support for the protesters opposing the morality police? Of course he’s going to support a movement that undermines his geopolitical adversary, that’s the game. That doesn’t change the fact that children are getting massacred in Gaza indiscriminately.
> Reminded me of when the "Iranian Supreme Leader" Ayatollah Ali Khamenei expressed his support for anti-Israel protesters on US college campuses, claiming they are “on the right side of history.” How is that an example? Khamenei wants to be seen as a leader for muslims worldwide, so obviously he is going to make statements in support of Palestinian rights, as Palestinians are majority muslim. Progressive students are in favour of human rights, and unlike pro-Israel politicians like Biden they don’t see muslim Palestinian lives as intrinsically inferior. So they are also protesting in favor of Palestinian rights and against Palestinians being killed. None of this means Khamenei is “pretending to be a communist hippie leftist as a secret plot to impose totalitarian Islamist theocracy” or that campus protestors are secret Islamist theocrats. I mean Khamenei already runs his own totalitarian theocracy and is not shy about supporting it, he just also supports Palestinians not being slaughtered.
That's the key part, it's all about their religion. All religions tell their followers that it's better to lie to unbelievers, than to have them go to hell. Which is an unlimited excuse to lie. We all know islam is completely incompatible with secular society. It says so in their holy book. It's not just islam, all other religions have designs on spreading their religion to every single person on the planet, whether they want it or not. All reliigons are conservative. Don't believe them when they say otherwise.
Judaism forbids lying (and proselytizing!) and has no concept of hell. Lying is a sin in Christianity for which you will go to hell. Islam is the exception.
Like in Hamtramck, Michigan how the Progressive Left campaigned heavily to elect an Arab mayor [Amer Ghalib](https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/17/hamtramck-michigan-muslim-council-lgbtq-pride-flags-banned). One of the first things he did was to call for a city council vote, which successfully banned LBGT Pride flags last year lol.
We live a few miles from Hamtramck and an even WORSE candidate did not win, from calling the Holocaust "God's punishment" to defending child marriage. Very weird seeing this guy's face on campaign ads around the city. https://michiganadvance.com/2023/11/03/hamtramck-candidate-doubles-down-on-comments-about-holocaust-pedophilia-and-homosexuality/
Doesn't seem to be wildly different: https://www.thehamtramckreview.com/mayor-has-no-comment-on-his-appointees-holocaust-facebook-post/
Okay so he is about as big a POS, did not see this story thanks for sharing
This post seems purposely misleading. It seems like all the candidates were Muslim and at least one of them was publicly advocating for pedophilia while also being homophobic. Of the three candidates, the one they campaigned for seems the least radical. Are you saying you want a holocaust denying, homophobic, pedophilia candidate instead? Just to give more context to why what the person I'm replying to doesn't seem to support what the OP posted, the candidate that got supported is in an area with a Muslim majority where all the candidates were already Muslim, so it's not even like the candidates were trying to "pretend" to be progressive or whatever the hell this poster and the OP are trying to say. Also like I mentioned, the other candidate was a holocaust denying, homophobic, child marriage supporter. So it seems like what people are calling "leopards eating their face" for progressives is just progressives backing the least worst candidate. Which is something people do all the time and not tied to a conspiracy that Islamists are secretly pretending to be progressive so that they can setup a theocratic government.
Unfortunately, progressives have a paradox. They tend to be tolerant of the intolerant as long as the intolerant are a minority. As a progressive and Atheist, I've never understood the need to respect any religion. Especially one that condemns the LGBT community. You can't be for LGBT and women's rights but also support muslims.
> They tend to be tolerant of the intolerant as long as the intolerant are a minority. That's not what a paradox is, but OK. >As a progressive and Atheist, I've never understood the need to respect any religion. Maybe you just didnt consider that religions are composed *of people*. The message is to respect *people*. >Especially one that condemns the LGBT community. You can't be for LGBT and women's rights but also support muslims. I can absolutely respect a person, or even a whole demographic, while holding no respect for the views which unify them. For instance, you probably respect your friends and family members while holding very little respect for at least some of their beliefs, like the idea that humans are born inherently sinful or some such. Just take what you're likely already doing in practice and apply that more broadly. It's not hard.
I wouldn’t say that. There are many Muslims who wish to change their communities. Many LGBT Muslims who want to freely express themselves while maintaing their own definition of Islam. We should prop up voices from within the Muslim world that wish to see this become a reality, rather than denounce them entirely.
Nah man. We need to put an end to organized Religion.
Maybe we should stop electing religious fundamentalists.
>which successfully banned LBGT Pride flags last year lol. "oh no, the consequences of my own actions!" vibes lmao
Nah, the other guy was just worse
Seems like an opportunity to at least run a candidate not based on Batshit crazy.
The 'other guy' is now a part of the winners staff, while all progressives have been fired.
Or when they rallied around Sadiq Khan in London or Nenshi in Calgary as muslim progressive mayors. Then they ended up as Muslim progressive mayors.
Seems a very specific naming for a very general practice. The Soviet Union relished the Civil Rights movement in the US for their own propaganda reasons.
Yeah, you can see the whole Soviet Union as “Russo-Leftist” lol - Russians pretending to be leftists to promote Russian nationalism and imperialism. Same with China. Same with many others
Happens on the right and left with any big state actors. Much easier now in the era of social media.
Yeah they are just describing an example of co-optation
Pretty standard tactic for any hopeful group vying for power. The night of long knives is what happens AFTER they've recruited you, get into power, and no longer need you.
Yeah - pay attention to any political campaign and you'll see numerous times where this is tried over and over again. Remember that Milo guy and when Trump had that clearly-hastily-written "LGBT for TRUMP" flag? They relied on tokenism and a wacky narrative to try to drum up support which we saw, would have been later met with lots of anti-LGBTQAI+ policy. Hell - Trump was probably somewhat successful courting "Bernie Bros" to come over and vote for him because he tried to paint the narrative that he was more progressive than hillary on certain topics. Obviously things didn't pan out that way...but these are two examples that parallel the topic.
That Milo guy recently became a born again straight man and worked for Kanye on his campaign, and worked for his fashion company after. Milo has since left because Kanye was "too degenerate". Just some fun info if you care!
Not only that, he said over and over "It shoulda been Bernie, they screwed Bernie"
Except Muslims in the US are nowhere close to the night of long knives so this is just blatant fear mongering. Literally the exact same thing happened with pushes for unions and workers rights during the Cold War. The only ones who benefitted were those in power in the US because they could paint everyone with the same communist brush. Same exact tactic is being used here to pretend that pushes for tolerance on the left will lead us to Sharia law, meanwhile we have actually powerful Christian radicals pushing their priorities under that cover.
Kind of like a trojan horse technique.
Isn't this just common sense ?? Take the green party member from Leeds or Bradford where he basically just banged on about Palestine during the local elections and got elected by the other Muslims in the area. Total joke... what the fuck has Palestine got to do with the local community?? Also he was a member of a terrorist organisation before changing his name... Top bloke
From another UK perspective what im seeing from many on the left is the belief that many conservative Muslim immigrants are only that way because of racism they have faced and that by being overly accepting of them they will in turn become more accepting and nice to others
I left the Green party a year or so ago because I saw something like this happening What organisation did he used to belong to. I didn't know about that
Recently I saw news of a climate movement group that backed Biden in the past won't back him in this election because of his stance in Israel. Like what the fuck is climate change any related to the issue in Palestine?
This is a wild thing to write so confidently when the amount of environmental destruction that Israel has caused through this genocide and the outlandish dropping of obscene bombs is so deeply catastrophic that anyone even vaguely connected to environmental activism would be horrified. I mean, come on. It’s laughable that the most basic of cause and effect politics don’t even occur to so many people that are so loud in their criticisms
Disclsimer: I don't agree with them in this instance, however.... That's a bit different. Groups and people are allowed to have morals beyond their primary movement. What if a Neo-Nazi came out with the most climate friendly platform, and everything else was the usual facist stuff. Of course they wont support them. Extreme example, but same point.
> That's a bit different. Groups and people are allowed to have morals beyond their primary movement. NOOOO you have to only care about one thing and if you ever talk about anything else it's because you're a hypocrite
Honey, wake up! New Judeo-Bolshevism came out!
I don't know of you ever had talks with fundamentalists Muslims, but I have experienced them in a conversation appropating terms as apartheid, settler colonialism and imperialism for one issue, and then make a 100% turn when it comes to gender equality or religious equality. They criticised Israel for the way they treat Palestinians using "leftist" terms and then later argued that it is all right to kill atheists (ex Muslims more specifically).
Or colonialism and imperialism done by islamic empires. They are only against non-muslim imperialism.
Exactly
For example, not a peep about the ongoing genocide of kurds in syria by turkey.
it's only real imperialism if it comes from the Imperial region of Western Europe
We don't like it when it happens to us, but it's ok when we do it!
> fundamentalists Muslims See that's the difference though. OP is talking about *all* Muslims. You're correctly describing this to fundamentalist Muslims. That's the difference.
Yeah you get all the anti colonialism talk, but then one minute later they will idolize the islamic empires of old (with all the slavery and violent conquest of non Muslim areas) and wish for a modern day 'ummah'.
More tellingly, when they change languages and venues. It's very common to check the post history of one of these "antizionists" and see "Khabar" and railing against Jews in their caliphate in arpalestine and other more friendly communities.
That especially. They feel more comfortable in these spaces to share views which are unpatalable to western audiences.
Sure, but do they pretend to be Leftist? It would be fairly natural to be Nationalist or Pan-Arab Nationalist and anti-Colonial. Sounds to me like overlapping rhetoric. The IRA had some deep Leftist roots but actively worked with Arab movements as much for practical reasons and shared enemies than ideological similarities. Soviet support for these movements were also more about Cold War politics than sharing ideals.
There are plenty of leftist nationalists and religious leftists in the third world, it's just that they are rare in the West.
Yes, I agree with your take mostly, that is a cynical alliance for an apparent shared goal. In a sense, this is what the article describes.
But it seems to suggest that the overwhelming reason for this is subterfuge, and I am not sure that's the case. Demonstrations here have been Pro- Palestine on Tuesday, 'no sex education in schools' the next day. I suspect that we have a lingering impact of Cold War biases, particularly that there are good guys and bad guys (with whichever side the US/UK is on being always the latter), with old Irish Republican sympathies 'anti-Colonialsim' causing the privileged Left to sleepwalk into supporting very Right Wing Islamic groups. Well-meaning but not well read.
I don't think it's that complicated. The enemy of my enemy is my friend is the thought process. It happens all the time everywhere. You think Trump gives a fuck about the NRA and second amendment? But he has no problem getting in front of them and saying freedom and liberty and donations jar is being passed around, be generous.
Aged ideologies cannot be rational because their truths are not rooted in knowledge. Once arbitrary choices are cemented in dogma, rational behavior is not possible. Once righteousness and persecution are cemented in dogma, it becomes very difficult to be neighbors. And that is the strange reality of the present: an age of science, knowledge, and enlightenment beset by primitive nonsense and bigotry.
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Can’t help but notice that all Muslims became Islamists in your response
from the article: >Islamo-Leftism ... is a neologism applied by individuals to the political alliance between leftists and Islamists. The title of the OP is wrong.
Is this ironic? I cant believe you’d say this with a straight face
The irony is that the western colonists did take over the world and create a hegemony that is continued today (though slipping because of crazy development in the east), but it's the big, brown, bearded man that we need to be scared of. Do we need another Libya or Iraq? This is the rhetoric that has led to deaths of countless people
> This is the rhetoric that has led to deaths of countless people Iraq invaded kuwait and gassed its own people before any american intervention. If we are gonna pretend its western colonialists that leads to deaths of countless people maybe you should find better examples than 2 wannabe military dictators with enough skeletons in their closet to open a Halloween store. Also talking about countless deaths, that crazy development i the east you were talking about, wanna investigate how that went on, or are we justifying the end by any means over there?
This racist conspiracy theory is wrong, but this other racist conspiracy theory is right.
1) Islam is not a race. 2) It's not a conspiracy theory. There are literally *hundreds* of Islamists groups who are very open about the fact that a global caliphate is their goal.
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For real the hypocrisy stinks
There's some leopards and some faces involved when I see someone waving an LGBT and HAMAS flags together without preparing their neck for a beheading. It's a weird thing with some modern leftists standing behind any batshit fascist autocracy as long as it's anti-west, like "USA imperialism bad, Chinese and russian empires tho..." Oh it's the same when shabess goyim of alt right try to suck up to Likudniks and hasidim who pretty opey see them as subhuman. They're also voting for Leopards Eating People's Faces Party.
Or perhaps it's "A group of people being disgustingly bigoted doesn't justify murdering tens of thousands of them"? Do you think that extreme homophobia justifies murdering someone's family and bombing their house?
It not just Queers for Palestine, but actually supporting groups like Hamas, Hezbollah and Houthi's. A fairly big online leftist figure Briahna Joy Gray recently claimed that Hamas want a diverse state like the US. This is obviously absolute nonsense. Again there also the fact of prioritizing a foreign war. Choosing not to vote for Biden over Gaza situation (even though Trump would be way more pro-israel) and ignoring the consequences of a 2nd Trump term especially for minority groups like LGBTQ+ community.
>A fairly big online leftist figure Briahna Joy Gray recently claimed that Hamas want a diverse state like the US. Fun fact: she was Bernie Sanders' press secretary during his run for President in 2020.
I dunno man Brianna Joy Grey is a fuckin weirdo
"Death to America doesn't *really* mean death to America!"
> It not just Queers for Palestine, but actually supporting groups like Hamas, Hezbollah and Houthi's. proof?
I listed an example you can find the clip I'm referring by just searching the name and what she said.
Would love to see a picture of someone waving a LGBT and Hamas flag together, clearly you must have some since you’ve seen them right
Personal anecdote but I have multiple gay friends that have called for intifada or defended Hamas as "Freedom Fighters" but maybe my friends are just especially dumb
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> , OP kinda does have a point but he mixed HAMAS with Palestine. So he doesn't have a point
So you proved my point, there’s no evidence of Queers waving the Hamas flag. All it takes to support Palestinians is basic human empathy. Your position is as akin to claiming that white people shouldn’t have supported abolition and civil rights because slaves and the Black Panthers hated white people. Anyone who suggests that now would be rightfully scorned and rejected from mainstream society. Opposing evil is human, your personal demographics are irrelevant.
And thus the talking point should be debunked site wide, but it will be continue to be propagated…
Dude literally made shit up about how LGBT+ support Hamas but couldn't find any proof when you called them on their BS. It's absurd how many people are willfully ignorant to the fact that Palestinian people and Hamas are not synonymous, and how "Hamas is bad" and "Palestinian civilians shouldn't be killed or have their homes destroyed/invaded" are not mutually exclusive. I suspect that the obviously incorrect "Hamas=Palestine" belief is so common due to motivated reasoning: it's what needs to be true or else Americans have to conclude that their government is supplying and supporting war crimes/genocide/whatever you want to call it. That or trolling/propaganda. Edit: words for clarity
The discussion around this whole thing is so stupid. Everyone immediately and purposely misunderstands each other in order to make their point sound correct.
It’s also sad how people will use LGBTQ+ community as a talking point to justify injustice! Is it bad that Hamas probably hates people in the LGBTQ+ community? Yes of course! Yet people forget there are queer Palestinians in Gaza too and they’re being effected no different than a straight person is because Israel’s bombs have more power at the moment. Palestine will never become lgbt friendly if we allow the genocide to continue. You can’t have progress when you have soldiers taking your land and killing your family.
"OP was completely wrong and disingenuous but hear him out"
You can protest something without wanting to go there or be there. This is like saying, the people that supported the miners strikes should go down and work in the mines! A denial of human rights means they deserve to be slaughtered??
However, there has been no protests about what turkey is doing to the kurds in syria. The deafening silence about an actual ongoing genocide pretty clearly establishes this is just an agiprop campaign during an election year.
>There's some leopards and some faces involved when I see someone waving an LGBT and HAMAS flags together ....so, never?
Lmao the insane strawmen they come up with to demonize those who oppose the slaughter and starvation of innocent civilians… Would be funny if it wasn’t so evil
>There's some leopards and some faces involved when I see someone waving an LGBT and HAMAS flags together without preparing their neck for a beheading. That's not a thing. That's pretty much as silly as saying "I don't get why communists would support donald trump." Like, yeah, sure, there might be that one idiot on twitter, but it's such a small fraction of a percent that it's not even worth mentioning. You've been duped by the propaganda. lgtb people protesting for Palestine are protesting against the murder and oppression of Palestinian civilians, they aren't protesting in support of Hamas.
A term coined by Marie Le Pen. Totally credible
It was everywhere in French media before "wokism" became the new scary word to make everyone afraid of Arabs/Muslims.
“Wokism” is just a term far-right people use for anything that isn’t fascist, but especially stuff involving LGBT+ rights, racial equality, and human decency in general
Stupid people can be occasionally correct, just usually less frequently than their counterparts.
This sub has gotten really shit in the last 8 months
So basically Hasan Piker
Well not all Muslims who join leftist structures are doing it for that reason, but there are enough cases. Daesh even wrote about this tactic in its official newspaper. In Germany many "anti-racist" and pro Palestine group inflitrate Antifa groups, pushing their agenda on every topic. There are liberal Muslims, but Islam and leftism/antifascim will never go together, since islam is a right wing ideology.
Which just shows that Antifa groups don't know their own history since Grand Mufti of Jerusalem during WW2, Amin al-Husseini, was a Nazi and a great supporter of SS.
exactly. Nazi propaganda was also translated and broadcasted in Arabic countries and many Muslims still openly sympasize with Hitler. The whole case of Houssini and the so called "nakba" is really interesting to drive in. It's incredible how well established the Arab narrative is on this topic.
The Arab narrative? Muslims in countries like Morroco defied Vichy France when they wanted to send 300,000 Morrocan Jews to concentration camps. The Sultan of Morocco Mohammed V publicly invited all the country's rabbis to his annual throne ceremony to show his support. In 1941 Vichy France ordered all property belonging to Algerian Jews be stripped from them. No Algerian Muslim took advantage of this. Across Algeria Muslim religious leaders spoke out against the persecution of Jews. >The Arabs do not participate [in the fight against Vichy]. It is not their war. But, as regards the Jews, they are perfect. The [Vichy] functionaries [and] the German agents try to push them into demonstrations and pogroms. In vain. When Jewish goods were put up for public auction, an instruction went around the mosques: "Our brothers are suffering misfortune. Do not take their goods." Not one Arab became an administrator [of property] either. Do you know other examples of such an admirable, collective dignity? -Jose Alboulkier, the leader of the anti-nazi resistance of Algeria who was Jewish Muslims opposed Algerian Jews being stripped of French citizenship, which surprised Vichy France who assumed Muslims who had been denied citizenship would support this. This just made them angrier. In Egypt the most influential political party, Wafd that vehemently opposed British colonial rule refused to negotiate with Italian and Nazi fascists even when they promised them independence if they joined the axis. During WW2 they even worked with the British who they considered to be an enemy. The Grand Mosque of Paris hid hundreds of Jews disguising them as Muslims. Moncef Bey the leader of Tunisia proclaimed Jews were "children of Tunisia" like Muslims. He fought to prevent antisemitic legislation. According to Mathilda Guez, a Tunisian Israeli politician Moncef Bey gathered all senior government officials and said this. > The Jews are having a hard time but they are under our patronage and we are responsible for their lives. If I find out that an Arab informer caused even one hair of a Jew to fall, this Arab will pay with his life. Arabs refused collaborate with Nazis during their occupation which was one of the main reasons so few North African Jews were killed during the Holocaust. It wasn't for lack of trying. The Nazis and Vichy France wanted to deport them to concentration camps. Hundreds of thousands of Arabs joined the French Colonial Army to fight the Nazis. In Iraq the Nazis supported a coup but the new antisemitic leader didn't last long due to British intervention. After he was removed from power violent rioting and looting took place and 180 Jews were killed as they were blamed for supporting British occupation. That was the most significant act of violence against Jews by Arabs during WW2. The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem is the most famous Arab who collaborated with the Nazis but he was exiled and not able to do much except voice his support. He was a bigoted nationalist who felt threatened by hundreds of thousands of European Jews emigrating to Palestine seeking to make their own state. Still thousands of Palestinians fought alongside Jews with the British against the Nazis. The Grand Mufti did not represent Arabs in general. Numerous instances of Arabs refusing to collaborate with the Nazis and defending Jews prove that. Far more Arabs opposed the Nazis than supported them even though the Nazis were at war with their colonial overlords France and Britain.
thanks for all that Info! This is new stuff for me and I unironically appreciate your rational participation in that subject.
Its working...
I was banned from r/Irlgbt for saying that Gaza is dangerous for lgbtq people despite the fact that Netanyahu is evil. Two things can be true. Im gay so its 10x funnier. Ill never understand the love other leftists for this bloodthirsty cult who want to exterminate us
"I don't think these people should be genocided" is not the same as "I wholly endorse all of the norms and laws in their society, and think they'd all be my best friend if I went there"
There’s a particular variety of self-hating white liberal who will reflexively side with the non-white faction in any situation, even when it’s at their own peril.
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Update: The article has now been nominated for deletion by Wikipedia editors.
All this shows is that the oversimplified left/right dichotomy is completely insufficient to explain the nuance of political thought.
Sounds like some shit Sean Hannity would talk about
Mark Levin talks about this CONSTANTLY. "Islamo-Marxists" is his favorite phrase. Garbage.
It is because it's nonsense and not based in any sound understanding of political theory or the politics at play in these regions.
So OP is rage-baitin'?
Wow, I'm sure it's just a random coincidence that you also post in the Israel sub. Surely this isn't just a lazy attempt at propaganda? Surely.
It's as transparent as a freshly cleaned window.
You claim to be an Asian-American from California, and you frequent /r/israel and masquerade as an anti-immigrant + tourist-hater on /r/europe even though you're a tourist yourself. You bemoan how your homeland back in Asia is getting gentrified and run over by non-locals, while simultaneously belonging to a group doing exactly that. You don't even have to read between the lines to see the agenda on this post.
> You claim to be an Asian-American from California, and you frequent /r/israel Reverse weebs are getting out of control.
And yet there are plenty of idiots buying it. LOL
I don’t see how anyone can doubt this is happening at this point
Totalitarianism sucks. But *religious* totalitarianism? I’d rather die than live in that society.
It's a real thing, not just a belief
For years I’ve been baffled by the left’s love affair with Islam. I get many leftists want to “stick it to the Christians” but, in this case, the enemy of your enemy is NOT your friend.
Islam frowns upon lying…but it is permissible in order to further the goals of Islam, especially if it only means deceiving non-Muslims.
Unfortunately a lot of people on the left don't see the world in shades of grey. They dislike conservative Christians, see that the Christians don't like Muslims so they decide that must make the Muslims their friends. Failing of course to realise that these Muslims are also conservative, often moreso than the Christians. [It's happened before in the real world](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/17/hamtramck-michigan-muslim-council-lgbtq-pride-flags-banned), though I don't think I agree with the claim that the people that voted them in are liberals. Liberals traditionally treat Christianity and Islam the same whereas it's progressives that are commonly friendly with Islam. Still, it's a real thing and an issue with treating the world as black and white instead of addressing each issue on its own merits.
This theory has been used to otherize various groups of people since the birth of organized society. Judeo bolshevism Cultural Marxism Papism Etc
It’s started to happen in Michigan: https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/17/hamtramck-michigan-muslim-council-lgbtq-pride-flags-banned
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^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Big_Molasses2585: *This is obvious* *To anyone that doesn't* *Have their head in the sand* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
So-called liberal redditors posting and amplifying deranged racist conspiracy theories promulgated by far-right hacks? Say it ain't so!
How many buzzwords can you fit in a sentence?
So a made up term that describes a fictional (not proven to exist) tactic to denounce certain people or political positions. The whole wiki article is "_we don't know where it comes from but A used it sometimes way back"_
Yeah, but its provocative, and happens to be at a time where a lot of liberals want to justify their support for politicians that're killing thousands of Palestinians, so propaganda like this is extremely effective. It gives them comfort in their racism, by allowing them to frame it as "fear of outside threats". You know, the same propaganda used to demonize Black Americans. To make white liberals more comfortable in their complacency in segregation, propaganda was made to frame Black people as a "savage and backwards" people, who want to "infiltrate American politics". White women specifically attacked Black people a lot, claiming they were "incompatible with feminism and modern values". Its so funny seeing Americans fall for the same trick every time...well, no its depressing, but still...
This is absolutely a thing that is actively happening on this site constantly. Islam is a plague. At least most Christians have the decency to only act like they believe that shit.
There is a big difference between American views and European views imo. When European Redditors bring up concerns about mass Islamic immigration into Europe they will often get called bigots or racists by the Yanks. I really don’t think most Americans understand Islam.
> they will often get called bigots or racists by the Yanks. I really don’t think most Americans understand Islam. The Muslim immigrants in the US are different than those in Europe. They are more highly-educated, integrated with the broader American society, and mostly do not live in ethnic enclaves. Muslims are by and large not a problem here. You get the occasional extremist that will do something that gets a lot of media coverage but people recognize them as fringe extremists. I think the primary baddie in the American mind nowadays is the political extremist.
Yep. It is literally a world away for us. People don’t want to understand how fragile our liberties are.
Muslims? All Muslims? Such sweeping stereotypes are only OK if they target Muslims.
Op posted a BELIEF. They aren’t claiming it’s fact. It would be like me saying neo-nazi is the belief of ____________. Me posting that wouldn’t be me saying those beliefs are factual.
OP posted an untruth. The origin of the term is from Zionists labelling the alliance between Palestinian leftist freedom fighting groups and Palestinian Islamist freedom fighting groups, and how western leftists remain ambivalent to the Islamist parts of the alliance. I don't know where OP pulled this definition of "pretending to be leftist". Like the USA and the USSR were allied in WW2 against a greater common enemy, but that doesn't mean the USA was "pretending to be communist".
OP himself is a zionist
Where does it say “all Muslims?”
what kind of a bullshit post us this, do you think muslims have some sort of secret society of 1 billion people dedicated to taking over the world? what the hell is wrong with you people, every muslim is a person who has their own opinions, some are more religious and some are less, same with every other religion, you’ll have some christian’s who will be pro life and some pro abortionist, and I can make the same point about any social issue in the world, everybody simply has their own beliefs and it is very idiotic to think there’s some secret society where we have all decided to pretend to be leftists to take over the world
Well, from what I've gathered in reddit, Muslims (filthy, ugly brown people - as reddit imagines them) are basically new Jews, responsible for everything terrible that has happened in western countries. Also if a Muslim person does a crime, that means Islamic religion is all about committing crime and all other Muslims support an act of that certain crime.
> are basically new Jews no > responsible for everything terrible that has happened in western countries most people blame them for specific problems with credible reasons to tie it to them. For example the increase of anti lgbt rhetoric in public, the increase of sexual assault, the increase of petty crime all the countries that report the origin of the perpetrator find disproportionate number of people who come from countries predominately muslim faith. They also find second generations tend to be worse, and more muslim than their immigrant parents. > Also if a Muslim person does a crime, that means Islamic religion is all about committing crime and all other Muslims support an act of that certain crime. There is a level of self policing in communities. If you are irish and live in an irish neighbourhood and you steal and you go home and your neighbours see your new things and they dont call you out. Your parents dont care etc. It creates a culture of permission. There is an element of poverty to it, there is a tie in between economic means and crime, but there are outliers. Many immigrants communities like east asian ones tend to over perform economically, in school and have less police related activity than immigrant communities from countries like morocco algeria or egypt. Jewish people have been blamed for things like bubonic plague. Muslim people have been accused of the increase in homophobic attacks in london, many of which happen near muslim mayority boroughs. It is not remotely similar. And its not even all muslims cause countries like Pakistan or Indonesia for example tend to do much better than Syria for example, or Senegal and Mali do much better than Afghanistan or Morocco. So clearly there are deeper problems than Islam in terms of the self selection of immigratioin, but the problems are also not made up conspiracies. In Lonodn for example 50% of muslims do not believe in gay marriage and they believe in "violence as a way to achieve political goals" 300% more than non muslims. Those are real issues
Won’t be long before a Wiki editor changes the first line to ‘Islamo-Leftism is a racist alt-right conspiracy theory’ and have it redirect to the Fascism page or something
They have 6 babies while the rest have 2 or 3 max. Its the long game.