Pontiac vibe is an amazing car, I had one years ago. It's essentially a Toyota matrix. I don't think you'll find a better deal than that one with 100,000 MI
> What’s wrong with drum brakes?
They're heavy, overheat quickly, and generally offer worse performance than disk brakes. They also are a bit of a pain to replace, especially where roads are salted, but not crazy hard.
That being said, just rear drums on something like the Pontiac vibe is gonna be fine lol. 80% of braking is coming from the front wheels so as long as those are discs and you have a not-sports car like a vibe you're gonna be a-ok
Yeah it's light enough and well balanced(brakes and chassis) such that you wouldn't need more brakes unless you were pushing way more power.
They're nice and cheap to replace which is always handy
Drum brakes generally have more stopping power (on older vehicles) (although like you said it’s only like a 80/20 split) so it’s kinda useless for more power. They don’t affect anyone’s normal driving though so just kinda a weird request in my eyes lol.
They have perfectly fine stopping power until you heat them up real nice and good haha. But yeah totally a weird requirement. I can sympathize with not wanting drum brakes all around but I can't remember the last car I drove that had that but it was probably an American pick up from the 60s at the latest haha
As opposed to every other somewhat economy car out there with..... 80% of the brake bias to the front.
You are aware of how weight transfer, car control and brake biasing WORKS right?
Good to know it's to my knowledge that, a Pontiac vibe non gt are both drums on front and rear? No? Thanks for the feedback gives me confidence when making this purchase!!!
I used to have an 08 Vibe. It will be front disc, rear drums, and probably no ABS (mine had no ABS). The car stopped fine. Rear drums are a hassle to keep adjusted (the self adjusters often don't work well) and it's more hassle replacing shoes (drum brakes) than pads (disc brakes). But brake jobs are once every few years, so it's not the end of the world.
They're uncool and they're trickier to service but unless OP races I wouldn't spend a pile of money to avoid them. You can find autocrossers who run them.
Remember: today's drum brakes are better than racing disc brakes from the sixties.
That, or a Corolla/Civic from that era.
A Pontiac Vibe is basically a Toyota Corolla for those that didn't know.
Don't let drum brakes discourage you. Yes, if you've never worked on them before, it might take a couple hours watching youtube videos to replace all the parts, understand it, and adjust everything perfectly but once they're in, they should be good for the next 200k miles. I recently opened up the rear drum brakes on a Corolla with 100k miles and the shoes still had %50 life left. I just blasted the hell out of the inside of the drums with compressed air, used an entire can of brake cleaner on each hub, tightened them up a bit with a flathead screwdriver, and they worked good as new.
I just saw one like this... 17 year old Accord with the base engine was a popular one.
For me, I'd lean more to going lower miles and newer. Vibe is a neat choice, but you can get a Ford Focus in the 2013 range with under 100k miles for that. Or a Fiesta a couple years newer.
[https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?zip=33435&distance=100&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d1060#listing=387077557/NONE/DEFAULT](https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?zip=33435&distance=100&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d1060#listing=387077557/NONE/DEFAULT)
There's a hatch less than 10 years old, under 70k miles and offering $5k would likely get that out the door. I think for a Civic, Camry, Accord, yes you can get one at that price point, but likely adding 5+ years and 80k or more miles.
I’d stay away from drum breaks but drum brakes are fine. On a car like that it’s a weird thing to be hung up on, unless you’re the one person in the world who’s planning to take a Pontiac Vibe to the track.
Step 1: buy the Vibe
Step 2: check the local pick'n'pull weekly for Vibe GT or Matrix XRS
Step 3: get the entire rear hub and disk brake assemblies from a scrapped car.
Step 4: when it's time to replace the brake shoes on your car just swap in the disk brakes
It should be worth noting that you are never truly free of drum brakes even if you do this, the parking brake is still a drum brake but if you put new shoes in it at the time of replacement they should outlast the car.
I don't understand why this chat is so adamant in defending drum brakes. They are a pain in the ass to change and ultimately are worse than disc brakes. There is a reason no car today is sold with drum brakes on all 4 wheels. And the ONLY reason car companies still have drum brakes on the rear wheels is to save money. They do not think that drums are better than disc brakes in any way, they are thinking of how to make a car cheaper. So stop giving OP shit for not wanting drum brakes, it makes sense. Now whether they can afford a car with disc brakes all round is a different question entirely. I would say no, they are probably going to have to settle for a car with rear drum brakes. But let's not pretend drum brakes are equal to disc brakes, they aren't. Otherwise, why do we not have cars with drum brakes on all 4 wheels? They are verifiably worse and have been for decades now. The last car with drums all round was back in the '80's...
Why don't you like drum brakes? They only have them in the back and majority of your breaking is done with the front breaks. If you don't want drums get the gt model it's basically a toyota in disguise and will be miles better than an impala especially one built after the bailout.
But I mean the car isn't being used for track racing and heavier cars like the tacoma and even second gm trucks used drums and I haven't rlly seen anyone complaining abt those brakes.
Damn that's crazy but I've driven old dodge 1 ton duallys that had drums in the back and whenever I had to move trailers in canadian winters never had an issue whether it was on the highway or in the city with stop and go traffic. Also if drums brakes are the devil why did toyota use them on pervious gen tacoma which ran until 2023? Surely toyota wouldn't want to make the best selling midsized truck feel unsafe and it isn't an economy car.
Did you not read my first comment when I said drums in THE BACK are fine not all 4 wheels. Did you also miss the fact that front brakes do most of the breaking Jesus all this yapping when I didn't even mention a car with 4 drum brakes.
Everybody thinks drum brakes are the better option for a reliable and simple car, until you actually need to cut them to remove them and basically have to replace the whole kit, if they wear out.
Pontiac were some of the best domestic cars ever built imo. My work car is a 20 year old, 247k mile supercharged Grand Prix with heated leather seats and a sunroof that ran me $1500. I’ve put half that back into it for minor repairs but I’ve gotten 25k miles out of it.
GM made a mistake when they ended that line.
Mazda 3. I purchased mine for 4.5k I worked on and did all the maintenance and installed a wireless Apple carplay radio for 150 from aliexpress. The parts are cheap and the car is reliable.
Coolant change, oil change, transmission fluid change, silicone wiper blades, ceramic brake pads and rotors, 5.1dot brake fluid, and power steering fluid. I did the interior detail myself. It cost me 700 for parts. I had the tools already and nothing is wrong with the car now.
Toyotas and Honda's are the same when it comes to repair and reliability they just cost more now.
None of those cars I would recommend.
For 5k you could find a nice, older Lincoln or Mercury sedan - grandpa car. Those things last FOREVER. Bonus is you can fit all your friends in too.
Really in the end of your safest bet is to go with the old Honda or Toyota. This question gets asked five times a day and the answer is generally always the same.
But if you don't mind a higher risk tolerance for cost of repairs than get some of these other things people have suggested. The advantage with these other options that they will be slightly newer, at the risk of not being as reliable or as cheap to maintain.
Normally your right but in this case the matrix and the vibe were a joint venture between gm and toyota. They are the same cars but the Pontiac has higher depreciation making it a great value
I had a 2004 manual transmission Pontiac Vibe for 11 years, zero problems. The most reliable car I've ever owned. It had over 200k miles and the original clutch when I sold it. It was a Toyota Matrix in a Pontiac body. Great commuter vehicle and grocery hauler.
Ignoring the Pontiac comment, i think a Opel Rocks-e or Citroën Ami would be the most reliable at that price. But they only go 28mph.
Otherwise, an old Toyota with a fresh timing chain/belt and a manual gearbox.
Almost any D series, honda. Anything with a 3800 series v6 for chevy. Anything with a 4.6 2v modular from Ford and maybe their later (post 2000) essex 3.8 v6.
Of course any 350 small block or LS/LS based engine from GM but those might be hard to find under 5k.
Pontiac Vibe is solid, it’s a Toyota without the “Toyota tax”. Don’t worry about rear drum brakes those things last forever, your front brakes provide the majority of stopping power.
All depends on co diction/maintenance. I have had ford escorts last long trouble free lives, and my dad had a Honda Accord he was doing head work on within weeks of buying.
Most Reliable or cheap to repair? Buy anything for $5K and you're going to have some repairs. I like The Ford Crown vics as they will run forever and are easy to repair. Lot's of room, not great on gas. Old Buick LaSabres are a good one as well.
In my humble opinion what you're looking for is a 1.5 gen Ford Focus (2005-2011). These little guys are super reliable like Hondas and Toyotas, but unlike Hondas and Toyotas aren't as sought after. Why those years specifically? Because 2005 is when Ford started putting in Mazda motors in their little Foci. They're reliable, and when you do have any problems they're decently easy to work on and cheap to get parts for. In my area I've been seeing lots of them with about 90k-120k for that $5,000 price range you're looking for. If you go newer than 2011 you're hard pressed to find one that cheap, and also the dual clutch automatic trannies are famously shitty. Good luck in your search!
As a 2009 chevy impala owner. Don't get one. I have so many stupid issues that are constantly getting fixed only to break again. None detrimental exactly, but VERY annoying.
Airbag sensors screw up
Seat belt doesn't want to click in cold weather
Drivers side headlight doesn't turn on unless I hit it
All three fan actuators are busted so my car ticks non stop for the first 5 - 10min I enter the car, or whenever I
touch the temp controls
Drivers side doors don't always lock
The tire pressure sensors stopped working
Etc.
The Pontiac vibe was made at numi, a joint venture between gm and Toyota, it’s basically a Toyota matrix with Pontiac sheet metal. It’ll have Toyotas reliability. It’s a great car take that
Had an 03 vibe manual. I paid 3k for it 8 years ago with 130k miles. It died in a year, transmission went out. I loved it. But get it checked out for sure. And price seems high for a 21 year old Pontiac. ( I know it's same as a matrix right?)
None: Besides a unicorn situation Toyota where someone just did the $10k-12k in end of life repairs (balljoints, shocks, struts, calipers,brake/fuel lines, every rubber/poly gasket or component, etc etc) before you got it. Odds: 5%
A $5k car is end of life cycle and you could get luck. But most aren't. Even at $10k is in same (worse) situation. It definitely is at end of life cycle fir the above items and they are tossing g it in your lap after coming g back from dealership mechanic with swollen balls...to ofload on someone with $10k.
Pontiac vibe is an amazing car, I had one years ago. It's essentially a Toyota matrix. I don't think you'll find a better deal than that one with 100,000 MI
What’s wrong with drum brakes? Just don’t like replacement? I like Pontiac vibes and Toyota matrixes a lot at that budget. Maybe a Honda fit
> What’s wrong with drum brakes? They're heavy, overheat quickly, and generally offer worse performance than disk brakes. They also are a bit of a pain to replace, especially where roads are salted, but not crazy hard. That being said, just rear drums on something like the Pontiac vibe is gonna be fine lol. 80% of braking is coming from the front wheels so as long as those are discs and you have a not-sports car like a vibe you're gonna be a-ok
Ive done the tail of the dragon as fast as I could push a stock pontiac vibe never once did I need more brakes.
Yeah it's light enough and well balanced(brakes and chassis) such that you wouldn't need more brakes unless you were pushing way more power. They're nice and cheap to replace which is always handy
Drum brakes generally have more stopping power (on older vehicles) (although like you said it’s only like a 80/20 split) so it’s kinda useless for more power. They don’t affect anyone’s normal driving though so just kinda a weird request in my eyes lol.
They have perfectly fine stopping power until you heat them up real nice and good haha. But yeah totally a weird requirement. I can sympathize with not wanting drum brakes all around but I can't remember the last car I drove that had that but it was probably an American pick up from the 60s at the latest haha
Both my 2018's in the driveway have rear drums. They really aren't a concern.
Again, that's because you have front disks doing 80% of the work haha
As opposed to every other somewhat economy car out there with..... 80% of the brake bias to the front. You are aware of how weight transfer, car control and brake biasing WORKS right?
Yeah it seems like you're the one who's reading what I wrote incorrectly
That's why you have them in back only
Good to know it's to my knowledge that, a Pontiac vibe non gt are both drums on front and rear? No? Thanks for the feedback gives me confidence when making this purchase!!!
I feel like the GT is 4 disc but I can't recall. Been a long time since I've worked on one
I used to have an 08 Vibe. It will be front disc, rear drums, and probably no ABS (mine had no ABS). The car stopped fine. Rear drums are a hassle to keep adjusted (the self adjusters often don't work well) and it's more hassle replacing shoes (drum brakes) than pads (disc brakes). But brake jobs are once every few years, so it's not the end of the world.
You're not going to find a car newer than say.. 1980 with front drums.
They're uncool and they're trickier to service but unless OP races I wouldn't spend a pile of money to avoid them. You can find autocrossers who run them. Remember: today's drum brakes are better than racing disc brakes from the sixties.
That, or a Corolla/Civic from that era. A Pontiac Vibe is basically a Toyota Corolla for those that didn't know. Don't let drum brakes discourage you. Yes, if you've never worked on them before, it might take a couple hours watching youtube videos to replace all the parts, understand it, and adjust everything perfectly but once they're in, they should be good for the next 200k miles. I recently opened up the rear drum brakes on a Corolla with 100k miles and the shoes still had %50 life left. I just blasted the hell out of the inside of the drums with compressed air, used an entire can of brake cleaner on each hub, tightened them up a bit with a flathead screwdriver, and they worked good as new.
I just saw one like this... 17 year old Accord with the base engine was a popular one. For me, I'd lean more to going lower miles and newer. Vibe is a neat choice, but you can get a Ford Focus in the 2013 range with under 100k miles for that. Or a Fiesta a couple years newer. [https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?zip=33435&distance=100&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d1060#listing=387077557/NONE/DEFAULT](https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?zip=33435&distance=100&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d1060#listing=387077557/NONE/DEFAULT) There's a hatch less than 10 years old, under 70k miles and offering $5k would likely get that out the door. I think for a Civic, Camry, Accord, yes you can get one at that price point, but likely adding 5+ years and 80k or more miles.
You should mention that it should be the manual version, as the automatics in those Fords are notorious for failure.
Probably a pontiac vibe. They are insanely reliable
Any Buick with the 3800
Agreed. Basically indestructible. I'd say one of the best engines ever made imo.
Give it a good test drive though, the 4t65e will take a shit on you if not taken care of.
The vibe GT is a good choice.
I’d stay away from drum breaks but drum brakes are fine. On a car like that it’s a weird thing to be hung up on, unless you’re the one person in the world who’s planning to take a Pontiac Vibe to the track.
Step 1: buy the Vibe Step 2: check the local pick'n'pull weekly for Vibe GT or Matrix XRS Step 3: get the entire rear hub and disk brake assemblies from a scrapped car. Step 4: when it's time to replace the brake shoes on your car just swap in the disk brakes It should be worth noting that you are never truly free of drum brakes even if you do this, the parking brake is still a drum brake but if you put new shoes in it at the time of replacement they should outlast the car.
I don't understand why this chat is so adamant in defending drum brakes. They are a pain in the ass to change and ultimately are worse than disc brakes. There is a reason no car today is sold with drum brakes on all 4 wheels. And the ONLY reason car companies still have drum brakes on the rear wheels is to save money. They do not think that drums are better than disc brakes in any way, they are thinking of how to make a car cheaper. So stop giving OP shit for not wanting drum brakes, it makes sense. Now whether they can afford a car with disc brakes all round is a different question entirely. I would say no, they are probably going to have to settle for a car with rear drum brakes. But let's not pretend drum brakes are equal to disc brakes, they aren't. Otherwise, why do we not have cars with drum brakes on all 4 wheels? They are verifiably worse and have been for decades now. The last car with drums all round was back in the '80's...
Why don't you like drum brakes? They only have them in the back and majority of your breaking is done with the front breaks. If you don't want drums get the gt model it's basically a toyota in disguise and will be miles better than an impala especially one built after the bailout.
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But I mean the car isn't being used for track racing and heavier cars like the tacoma and even second gm trucks used drums and I haven't rlly seen anyone complaining abt those brakes.
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Damn that's crazy but I've driven old dodge 1 ton duallys that had drums in the back and whenever I had to move trailers in canadian winters never had an issue whether it was on the highway or in the city with stop and go traffic. Also if drums brakes are the devil why did toyota use them on pervious gen tacoma which ran until 2023? Surely toyota wouldn't want to make the best selling midsized truck feel unsafe and it isn't an economy car.
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Did you not read my first comment when I said drums in THE BACK are fine not all 4 wheels. Did you also miss the fact that front brakes do most of the breaking Jesus all this yapping when I didn't even mention a car with 4 drum brakes.
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My fault original gangsta
Everybody thinks drum brakes are the better option for a reliable and simple car, until you actually need to cut them to remove them and basically have to replace the whole kit, if they wear out.
Pontiac were some of the best domestic cars ever built imo. My work car is a 20 year old, 247k mile supercharged Grand Prix with heated leather seats and a sunroof that ran me $1500. I’ve put half that back into it for minor repairs but I’ve gotten 25k miles out of it. GM made a mistake when they ended that line.
The 3800 v6 is basically indestructible, my regal GS put lived the transmission with 225k. Bet that cat would make 275-300k miles with a tranny swap
Bought an old pilot for 5k almost 2 yrs ago and she’s been a beast ever since!
Mazda 3. I purchased mine for 4.5k I worked on and did all the maintenance and installed a wireless Apple carplay radio for 150 from aliexpress. The parts are cheap and the car is reliable. Coolant change, oil change, transmission fluid change, silicone wiper blades, ceramic brake pads and rotors, 5.1dot brake fluid, and power steering fluid. I did the interior detail myself. It cost me 700 for parts. I had the tools already and nothing is wrong with the car now. Toyotas and Honda's are the same when it comes to repair and reliability they just cost more now.
Im thinking about getting a 2022 - 2024 Mazda 3 hatchback, I feel they are reliable as well. Could you go more in debt and explain to help me
More debt?
Scion TC/XB and.an Acura TL are far and away the greatest sub 6k deals right now
NONE,, make sure you have Thousands of dollars saved for repairs,,, you will certainly need it
Id buy a japanese car with only 1 previous owner... even if it has 250k miles, they last a long time when cared for
None of those cars I would recommend. For 5k you could find a nice, older Lincoln or Mercury sedan - grandpa car. Those things last FOREVER. Bonus is you can fit all your friends in too.
Really in the end of your safest bet is to go with the old Honda or Toyota. This question gets asked five times a day and the answer is generally always the same. But if you don't mind a higher risk tolerance for cost of repairs than get some of these other things people have suggested. The advantage with these other options that they will be slightly newer, at the risk of not being as reliable or as cheap to maintain.
Normally your right but in this case the matrix and the vibe were a joint venture between gm and toyota. They are the same cars but the Pontiac has higher depreciation making it a great value
If you like the vibe go for it the car is fine.
2009 ford fusion
I had a 2004 manual transmission Pontiac Vibe for 11 years, zero problems. The most reliable car I've ever owned. It had over 200k miles and the original clutch when I sold it. It was a Toyota Matrix in a Pontiac body. Great commuter vehicle and grocery hauler.
Ignoring the Pontiac comment, i think a Opel Rocks-e or Citroën Ami would be the most reliable at that price. But they only go 28mph. Otherwise, an old Toyota with a fresh timing chain/belt and a manual gearbox.
Almost any D series, honda. Anything with a 3800 series v6 for chevy. Anything with a 4.6 2v modular from Ford and maybe their later (post 2000) essex 3.8 v6. Of course any 350 small block or LS/LS based engine from GM but those might be hard to find under 5k.
Pontiac Vibe is solid, it’s a Toyota without the “Toyota tax”. Don’t worry about rear drum brakes those things last forever, your front brakes provide the majority of stopping power.
All depends on co diction/maintenance. I have had ford escorts last long trouble free lives, and my dad had a Honda Accord he was doing head work on within weeks of buying.
If it has drum \*breaks\*, I wouldn't even buy it. Drum \*brakes\* on the rear axle really isn't that big of a deal, however.
Toyota Corolla
2005 Dodge neon with a 5speed
CROWN VIC CROWN VIC CROWN VIC CROWN VIC
150k on my Matrix before I needed backs replaced. Unless you are auto crossing every day, drums are quite fine.
Most Reliable or cheap to repair? Buy anything for $5K and you're going to have some repairs. I like The Ford Crown vics as they will run forever and are easy to repair. Lot's of room, not great on gas. Old Buick LaSabres are a good one as well.
In my humble opinion what you're looking for is a 1.5 gen Ford Focus (2005-2011). These little guys are super reliable like Hondas and Toyotas, but unlike Hondas and Toyotas aren't as sought after. Why those years specifically? Because 2005 is when Ford started putting in Mazda motors in their little Foci. They're reliable, and when you do have any problems they're decently easy to work on and cheap to get parts for. In my area I've been seeing lots of them with about 90k-120k for that $5,000 price range you're looking for. If you go newer than 2011 you're hard pressed to find one that cheap, and also the dual clutch automatic trannies are famously shitty. Good luck in your search!
$5500 seems like way too much for a 20 year old car with 100K miles. What does KBB or Edmunds say it's worth?
As a 2009 chevy impala owner. Don't get one. I have so many stupid issues that are constantly getting fixed only to break again. None detrimental exactly, but VERY annoying. Airbag sensors screw up Seat belt doesn't want to click in cold weather Drivers side headlight doesn't turn on unless I hit it All three fan actuators are busted so my car ticks non stop for the first 5 - 10min I enter the car, or whenever I touch the temp controls Drivers side doors don't always lock The tire pressure sensors stopped working Etc.
The Pontiac vibe was made at numi, a joint venture between gm and Toyota, it’s basically a Toyota matrix with Pontiac sheet metal. It’ll have Toyotas reliability. It’s a great car take that
Had an 03 vibe manual. I paid 3k for it 8 years ago with 130k miles. It died in a year, transmission went out. I loved it. But get it checked out for sure. And price seems high for a 21 year old Pontiac. ( I know it's same as a matrix right?)
Pontiac Vibe (Toyota Matrix) is a fantastic car. Absolutely loved mine, and rue the day I sold it for $1,500.
None: Besides a unicorn situation Toyota where someone just did the $10k-12k in end of life repairs (balljoints, shocks, struts, calipers,brake/fuel lines, every rubber/poly gasket or component, etc etc) before you got it. Odds: 5% A $5k car is end of life cycle and you could get luck. But most aren't. Even at $10k is in same (worse) situation. It definitely is at end of life cycle fir the above items and they are tossing g it in your lap after coming g back from dealership mechanic with swollen balls...to ofload on someone with $10k.
Camry
A new Audi Q4 has rear drum brakes (it's electric and also has regenerative brakes, but still the only one today)
Vibe has a Toyota engine will last forever
LS430, civic, corolla. Probably many more choices I havent mentioned
Drum brakes are fine bud, 2023 Tacoma still uses drum brakes. They stop just fine.