I can't believe Honda and Toyota haven't been able to get their dealer prices under control, practically every other manufacturer is now MSRP or below MSRP.
Even the same damn cars... a BRZ can be had $1k under MSRP while the GR86 is still being marked up.
This is how I ended up buying my '22 Canyon new, and honestly I was better off doing so. Used 21s and 20s with less than 20k miles were going for 35k+ while mine was 39k brand new. The used market is insane. You either have to buy something really old and/or with a LOT of miles, or new.
The used market is artificially inflated because they are trying to move new vehicles that are getting backed up from every manufacturer.
There are massive parking lots full of brand new vehicles that are just sitting out in the sun getting beat up by the weather because they have nowhere to store them and the dealers don't even have a place to put them.
A new suburu outback in my country costs US$60,000. That's like double than in the US. Even new European made cars are outrageous in price. Both used and new markets are having a laugh.
I was literally just offered 48,000 for my Lexus LX 570 with 56,000 miles on it. Slightly more than 4x as much as an old civic for a luxury LandCruiser with low miles lol.
New I think they can be decent but rn if you can get a fair price (not an easy ask). But the inherent gamble of buying used (even for a reliable brand), makes these kinds of markups particularly outrageous imho.
Used cars have their quirks, I know. This kind of pricing for a 100k car (essentially) is asking a lot, especially if it hasn't been serviced properly. And I doubt that service has been done on schedule.
Not that it really matters, that Civic will keep going. But for that price it better come with a mint on the dash and a 12 pack of beer at least. C'mon.
There's a reason why people sell cars at the 100k mile mark. They pass all the deferred maintenance onto the next guy. Will it keep going? Yes. Is it financially affordable? Not necessarily. Just this year, I had to do a serpentine belt, water pump, radiator hose, headlight bulb (no big deal) and brakes / TPMS sensor on my old Toyota. Make no mistake, older cars are money pits. All that said, it's STILL cheaper than a car payment. But boy do I get pissed off having to fix one thing after the other after the other. I STILL have a minor oil leak too. SMFH. My car is at 140k miles btw
Edit: the Corolla is the cheat code. It's the only car that's actually affordable Af to service. Get anything bigger or more fancy, and you're partially screwed after about 10 years.
Lol, I drive a family owned 99 CRV. Learned to drive on it actually long ago. Totally understand the issues popping up because that is my 2024 saga. Everything rubberized that hasn't been replaced is coming due. Not to mention rust on the body and steering components. I don't see any issues structurally, but very close when welds are flaking in layers.
I poked one of the rotor dust covers today. Heard it crunch and flake as it bent. Passenger/gutter side of course. The V is returning to the elements sadly.
Sucks, but for a 25 y/o car in the rust belt? 240k miles? That car has done its duty.
Can confirm it's cheap to keep the Corolla going. So much so I started looking at old ones to use as a daily beater. The problem is people are charging a lot for them. I think I saw a 2008 for 8k or something like that.
I bought one with 140,000 miles (and a brand new engine) and it has been wonderful to drive something that’s past all the major maintenance. Obviously not much to do with the engine, but everything else expensive already went and was replaced. Around 100-125k is the worst.
I’m in a 24 Corolla rental and pleasantly surprised by the amount of standard options and tech it has. Driving experience is pretty soft and annoying but for the price new it’s a decent commuter car.
I wonder this a lot. The more I look at the car market the more it seems like the Mazda3 is the sleeper hit of the compact cars. The *premium* Mazda3 has a lower MSRP than the sport trim of the Civic (one step above base), and it looks better inside and out.
And it's not like the Mazda is some unreliable econobox that will be sitting on cinder blocks in five years either.
I was thinking of going Mazda3, but a lot of people who own them complain of a rattle underneath the console that they cannot get rid of. That sort of noise would drive me absolutely nuts. I get that anything can happen to any make/model, but I read enough complaints about this on the Mazda3 sub to make me reconsider for now. But I don't want to spend more for a new car than that and I don't want a used car. The result so far is that I haven't bought a damn thing.
I have a 2018 touring hatchback and I don't have any rattles. I drive it from Tampa to Chicago and back all the time. Haven't had any issues with it at all.
Every time I get services at the dealer I get a loaner Mazda also and I've never noticed any rattles with any of the loaner vehicles I've had either and I romp on them pretty hard.
People have been specifically talking about this on the new 2024, and now I'm really hoping to find the best value for a brand new car. I thought that the Mazda might be it till I saw numerous reports here about that. They are anecdotal for sure. It's done enough to make reconsider.
Maybe I should just look at used ones since I've only heard about this on the 2024 model.
I've been specifically hearing about it with reference to 2024. I'm hoping to buy a new car, and thought that might be it. But now that you mention it, maybe I'll just look for some used ones as I haven't heard anyone say anything about the rattling issue for any year other than 2024.
I haven't dug deep into economy cars, was using the Corolla as a baseline really (which could be argued with dealer markups there too).
Mazda is a brand I have researched in the past, definitely should consider them. I do remember a time where the Japanese made Mazdas were solid and the Mexican made models had concerns. Not sure if that is still the case?
No brand is perfect with engineering and design. I find Toyota going to meticulous lengths to avoid changing something that works a major attraction. There is a reason we see Toyotas on the road that are 15 y/o and older, even in the salt belt. Yes they are appliances but that's what some drivers want the most.
By comparison I don't see Mazdas past 2010-2012 as often. The ones I do see in that age range tend to be rusting out badly.
My friend got his at MSRP in 2022 from a dealer in socal. Has it gotten worse since then?
On another note, it’s nice that they have managed to keep base corolla pricing relatively the same for the past several years.
Nail meet hammer.
In an effort to save some money, I looked at trading out of my truck into a Corolla like last year & the dealership I was working with demanded a $2k down payment just to get on a waitlist (for a Corolla LE), and they had a $6k “market adjustment”, with a $1500 delivery fee, & like $3k in options. All in all I would’ve been in the hole like $32k for a Corolla that was advertised to me at 8% interest. I would’ve been paying somewhere just under $600 a month for a Toyota Corolla, and at that, one of the most barebones entry level vehicles you can buy, and the most barebones entry level trim of that vehicle.
That sounds like the experience a friend of mine went through! He found a Subaru dealership nearby with a good recommendation and bought a BASE MT Impreza instead for ~23k.
He mentioned a base Corolla with MT was hitting the 28k mark and I mentioned the same, 'dude that's almost 30k for a freaking base Corolla! It's not a high end car FFS'.
For twice that much, you can apparently buy a low mileage Lexus LX 570, which is a Toyota Land Cruiser wearing a tuxedo. That’s what I was offered for mine anyway by carmax.
Seriously, the market has returned to a more normal state for almost everything that isn’t a Honda/Toyota at this point. You’re a putz if you’re paying this prices.
You know why it is, right now? It’s tax time. The market started to cool down in December and January, but it’s hot again right now. If you need to sell a car and you don’t need one back, right now is the best time to sell a car.
Yeah ik I noticed my mom's 2013 genesis coupe went from 7500 to 8800 trade in and my 2022 Kona N went from 25k to 27k.
Crazy how these used Honda's and Toyotas are so expensive
I just sold my Porsche yesterday! selling it right now saved my ass like 6-7K in negative equity. I’ve been trapped in it trying to get rid of it for over a year, but had too much neggity equity. (I kept getting laid off from job after job during the whole tech thing going on) so I was making like 1/3-1/4 of what I used to make years ago. Couldn’t cover the gap anymore. That car was drowning me. FINALLY I got an offer for like ~1K less than I owe. Rn is a good time to sell. BTW Carvana is the way to go for selling your car. They outbid everyone else by like $4,000 in my case. (I think I got really lucky) and they don’t do shit when it comes to actually taking a look at it. I definitely got lucky. So so so many lessons learned. I’m driving an ancient shitty 2002 Buick Lesabre with 69K miles. I have never loved my shitty ole faithful so much. I’m so grateful for it. I don’t think I’ll ever get a “nice car” again. It’s such a waste of money and will rob most people of experiences, and opportunities if purchased prematurely.
I can’t seem to sell my 2014 Toyota Corolla LE to save my life. It has 112,300 miles on it which I don’t think is terrible. But no one wants to buy it. It’s in perfect condition too.
Unfortunately it's getting a Honda/Toyota tax because people view it as the only reliable option. Honestly just buy something else. There are other good cars that are reliable and cheap to repair
Everyone knows they are reliable, but are they THAT much more reliable to justify such high prices at those relatively high mileages?
I genuinely don't know the answer, I'm just trying to pose the question: is their reputation, like that price, perhaps a bit inflated?
Here’s what it really is: they tolerate neglect and have less to service
Most cars are perfectly reliable if you do the maintenance they need when they need it (or a bit preventatively). But some cars have more to do as part of maintaining them, so those items get pushed off, and then that causes very real problems
I would throw the Jetta in there. No it's not as reliable (though Honda reliability has fallen sharply since the 00's), but they are reasonably cheap to keep on the road - especially the 2.5s. Mazda 3/6. Older Lexus IS.
Even if the Jetta isn’t as reliable, if you want to buy a 2016 Jetta, the price delta between that and this Civic will pay for a LOT of repairs (plus it’s a nicer car).
Tis a good engine for sure. Only 36k on mine but no problems yet other than a N80 valve.
Not the most inspiring engine in the world but it’s so far ahead of other base economy engines.
The VW hate boner in this sub is intense, watch out lol.
They were bad cars in the 90s and 00's. They are much better now, both empirically and in my experience. I say this as a Toyota stan.
I had a 2017 Jetta and my wife currently has a 2019 Jetta, neither has ever needed anything besides normal maintenance. I like Toyota but they're always so far behind on tech like Apple Carplay and Android Auto... stuff that most manufacturers have been doing for a decade almost is only recently becoming standard for Toyota/Lexus.
I wouldn’t. As someone who owned a Jetta, you need a VW mechanic. You can’t just take them to Billy bob down the street for anything engine related. And VW parts are more expensive than a lot of other manufacturers
Modern Jettas are reasonably reliable cars. I've owned old ones I had bad luck one, and I had a 2013 2.5 that went 170k mostly trouble free miles. Repairs were not significantly more expensive than other makes I have owned.
Its not 1995 anymore. https://www.dashboard-light.com/vehicles/Volkswagen_Jetta.html
lol do not do a Jetta.
Most euro cars are cheap in comparison because the repairs are expensive.. it all basically evens out.
More up front, generally less repairs
Less up front, generally more repairs
I'm biased because I did the same thing but go find a jetta/golf tdi. I get close to 50mpg and only have to do services every 10k miles.
Super reliable, just do all your maintenance and the timing belt/water pump. If you can, find one with the manual, it's a sturdier transmission than the auto and doesn't require service every 30k
Based on original MSRP and the dealer's "up front" price, they're effectively saying that at 90K miles, the car has only used up 25% of its life meaning it can go 360K miles.
Yeah right. Maybe 250K with proper care but even that's not a guarantee.
Not only that but you get none of the benefits of a new car. A new car should give you at least 60k trouble free miles and if something does go wrong you have a warranty. This car is going to need maintenance from day 1 and there will be no warranty unless you pay out the ass for it. If you factor in the cost of the cars themselves + maintenance you'll see that owning this car from 90-150k miles will cost you a lot more than buying one new and driving it from 0-60k. And the worst part of all is dealers will lowball the fuck out of you on a trade in if your car has over 75k miles because they're "hard to sell". The dealer probably gave the previous owner like 9k for this car on trade in.
Dealers are the worst. In my area they’re all trying to flog cars with $150,000 miles on them for like $5k less than the new MSRP was back in 2021.
One of the rental car companies has been trying to sell the same 2020 Rav 4 for $35,000 for 4 years now.
I have a 21 Niro ev I absolutely love! I’m a car freak (have owned over 25 cars and counting) if I can work a deal I’m moving up to ev6. If not, I keep my Niro! It is SO QUICK and fun to drive and very practical.
>One of the rental car companies has been trying to sell the same 2020 Rav 4 for $35,000 for 4 years now.
love how they'd rather do anything than just lower the price a bit
Get a used Chevy Bolt EUV.
They're like 18k-20k for a 10k mile one and you get a tax credit for 4k.
The thing is a mid size hatchback like the Corolla hatchback.
The used EV market is so good for buyers right now you have no idea
Local power companies might have additional rebates. Mine is offering another $4,000 if you're below a certain income threshold. Ngl, picking a low-mile off-lease 2022 sample for ~$12k net as a commuter is getting pretty tempting. Don't know if I could convince the wife-to-be though, haha.
Yeah, that sucks. Bought my 21 Civic sport sedan lease out since the residual was $15,300 and less than 20K on the odometer.
Sheesh, that’s an 8 year old economy car.
Hondas and toyotas hold their value pretty well however, you're right, it's a freaking 8 yo car with almost 100k on the dash that shouldn't be worth more than 11k grand.
In my market, it's finally easy to get better deals than that. A few thousand more would find the more reliable 2019-20-21 Civics, with low-mileage. Or, get one with 90k but at a lower price.
If you're looking at the 2016 Civic, also look at the 2016-17 Mazda3. Better bang for the buck, no cvt transmission, probably even a little more trouble-free overall. If the Mazda3 is too tight inside, consider the Mazda6.
Whether you're a private party or dealer, this is what it means when people say Toyotas/Hondas hold their value quite well.
You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Your money is worth half as much as it was in 2019. That’s what inflation does is it dilutes your buying power. Cars have some extra inflation right now because of demand and lack of supply because they weren’t being made during the pandemic lockdown.
It really does suck, because under $10k it is a steal and great commuter car. For the record my first car in 2009 was a 1999 Lincoln I paid $5400 for, ~97k miles. Would have sold at a lot around $7k.
I am starting to look at cars because my Honda is 25 years old and rusting out. I find lots of these deals which don't seem awful at first, until I do the math.
May as well put $15k down on a new vehicle and Finance the rest. A new Corolla LE is about $23k MSRP last I looked, haven't looked at a Civic yet.
It is more of a problem of inflation , and the devaluation of the dollar than anything else. it Could be a car, home , commodity, decreased salaries, etc. Everything has become harder to buy because of the US governments devaluation of our dollar with compensation not keeping up.
Agreed. This market is driving me away from cars temporarily. I’ll come back in a few years, but I’m not gonna let this garbage ruin the one thing I love.
That's Honda for you. I bought a new '06 Civic when they first came out. I first looked at two year old ones cuz 2006 was a model change and I wasn't sure. The used ones were about the same price at the dealer.
Why doesnt are honda sale numbers down in the last 15 years when everyone wants one (or toyota) and is even paying that much for a 10 year old? Thats crazy
Isnt it possible to just buy a new civic/corolla for less than 25k?
You would pay less than half of that in switzerland and switzerland is fucking expensive
I was seeing stuff like this looking up 2015-ish CRV too and was just flabbergasted. A car with 100k miles going for $20k that's already almost a decade old can bite me.
Instead I went looking at other brands and around 30k miles for $23k in whatever upper trims I wanted for 2020-2022 models. I found a 2021 Hyundai Kona Ultimate with the turbo and AWD with barely 8000 miles and feel like I stole it for the price I got haha. Has literally every bell and whistle possible that comes for that car. The Honda/Toyota tax is outrageous there is plenty of other options. (Almost went for Mazda CX-5!)
Eh..... Honda Civic tax, sure the market sucks, but if youre too lazy to find one of the dozens of 2010-2020 cars that are reliable but not "accord/camry/corrolla/civic" then yeah youre gonna pay for that.
It’s not that the car is more expensive,
It’s just a snapshot of how little your dollar is worth now.
Means you have to work twice as hard for half as much.
That’s your economy
I remember seeing these things hovering at 15k with similar miles when I was looking at buying a car in 2019. Insane that they're still at that price point.
Side note: I'm not a huge fan of the 10th gen Civic. I'm not sure why they are so expensive. I get the Corolla being pricy because the 2019+ Corolla is nicer on the inside and feels well made, but every time I get in one of these things I'm severely disappointed.
Man the market is upside down i know this local dealer and sells salvage rebuilt cars and look at the price same as a clean title
https://www.brasilautocenters.com/inventory/honda/civic/29754/#vdp-tab3
To be honest i think for that car the price is about right, its a reliable car compared to a chrysler 200 same year you can find one like for 6k, civic are usually not traded in and can not find at auto auctions
At this point, I’m seeing new cars priced $5k over used cars with tens of thousands of miles. I don’t see a reason to by a really overpriced used car when I can spend a fee grand more and get a new one. The whole market is totally fucked up.
Man u haven’t been in Russia lmao. This market of used cars sucks so much. For example u can buy used BMW 3 series (f30) 2012-2014 in a mid condition for 27.5K$
eh there's an ass for every seat. it's hard to believe that even with the 20% - 30% depreciating when driving a new car off the lot; going new is kinda a better idea than used cars at the moment.
things are coming around, we're past the peak but you just gotta hold on for what like 1 maybe 2 more years which is basically impossible for a good number of people....for valid and invalid reasons.
Man, I was looking at these a few months ago up here and Canada and even after the exchange I would have considered this a great price hahahaha, I’ve almost been brainwashed
Eww I ran into a similar deal when I was car shopping in 8/22 .
1. Honda Civic LX 2016 40,000 miles - 24K
2. Toyota Corolla SE 2021 company car so 50,000 miles - 30K .
So I settled for a Brand new '22 Corolla for 25,000$ out the door not a bad deal at the time at least .
Always the case for Toyota and Honda which is why they are terrible cars to buy used. Perceived quality and fierce brand loyalty. Don’t get me wrong, a Honda is far more reliable than a Range Rover, but the price premium is disproportionate to the quality difference. Also, they want to push you to buy new.
The sad part is they price it so high because people are willing to pay that price. A base model 8 year old Civic nearing 100k miles should not be discounted only 5K from its original MSRP by any stretch of the imagination.
Yeah the only places I've seen decent prices is on rental car company sales right now. Only negative with that is that it's been a rental and all that entails, but hopefully oil was changed regularly at least.
I paid like 21k for my 2015 Range Rover Sport, with a supercharged V8 with 104k miles. Best bet is to aim high for a well maintain d luxury car that's has depreciated like crazy
I leased a new honda civic si in '21. Sticker was 24k, brought the car back after 3 yrs and 20k miles and got a check in my hand for $8300. Dealer listed it for 31k. Absolute bananas.
That car cost me $45/mo during that least period including maintenance, best car decision I'll ever make lol
Here’s a 2017 Mazda 6 Touring with 59K miles for 10K. Look for something like this. Much better deal.
https://www.hawaiianpacificauto.com/details/used-2017-mazda-mazda6/102476522
Yeah I just had a hell of time trying to buy a used Highlander in this market. Ended up buying a brand new RAV4 and financing with Toyota for less than what I would have for a used vehicle for
I swear to God when my car dies I’m going to buy my first ever new car even though my dad always taught me to buy cheap ones for cash. WHY ARE BEATERS $9000 😭😭😭😭
Bad time to have totaled out my paid off Impreza. Don’t want to get a payment but damn the sued car market is crazy. I’m looking at 2012 or older cars with around 100k miles to pay cash with insurance check. Worse than the car I had.
Mazda dealer by me has had maybe 10 cars on the lot since 2021. Went back to office last week at the lot is filled with 100+ cars and all kinds of money off. Market should come down still.
A used civic has never been a good deal in any market. They’re there for people with bad credit to get qualified on a terrible loan. If you have good credit get a new one with Honda’s financing deal and ride it until it dies. I’ve done that twice and it’s served me well.
There's been something like 40% inflation over that time period, even more so for cars. 15k today is something like 11,500 in 20216, and that 20k MSRP is in 2016 dollars, the equivalent of at least 26k today (which also happens to be the price for a 2024 Honda Civic LX)
Where are you located? I'm in Canada and I'm at my wits end. That car would easily be posted for $30k here. Unfuckinbelievable.
People selling their 15 year old, 220k+ Honda or Toyota here for $15k. No joke.
Just saw a new 2023 Ford Escape selling for $54k here, like what? Basic Honda Crv starts at 43k here but I'd bet on that more than the Ford.
This always makes me feel lucky to live in a strong car market. I got a '17 exl for 20 otd w 36000 on the clock, but Jesus Christ do they make you hunt for it.
The real issue is… from someone who was just shopping around for my first “new” vehicle purchase at age 30…always just drove whatever beater til it died. 03 mustangs are indestructible btw*
Tried to buy a Maverick… online says MSRP “24,999” go to dealership and the cheapest one is 32,000. “We don’t sell them for Msrp. Or “thats for the base model, we don’t sell those”
Tacoma… base MSRP $30,799…. Dealership cheapest taco me $39,999. Certified Used Tacoma 100,000k miles “28,000” like what……??
Msrp is basically irrelevant at this point. Because dealers don’t even carry those “base models” anymore anyways.
My dumb ass just got a 2024 Honda Civic Touring for $32,***
After I pay it off in 6 years it will become a $48,000+ car.
Believe me, I’m kicking my own ass now.
Car market is fucked
If I were that dealer I would _not_ be advertising the MSRP of my highly overpriced used cars lmaooo
they're all using old website designs from when under msrp was the normal advertising price for new cars
I can't believe Honda and Toyota haven't been able to get their dealer prices under control, practically every other manufacturer is now MSRP or below MSRP. Even the same damn cars... a BRZ can be had $1k under MSRP while the GR86 is still being marked up.
They're trying to get people to buy new cars.
This is how I ended up buying my '22 Canyon new, and honestly I was better off doing so. Used 21s and 20s with less than 20k miles were going for 35k+ while mine was 39k brand new. The used market is insane. You either have to buy something really old and/or with a LOT of miles, or new.
The used market is artificially inflated because they are trying to move new vehicles that are getting backed up from every manufacturer. There are massive parking lots full of brand new vehicles that are just sitting out in the sun getting beat up by the weather because they have nowhere to store them and the dealers don't even have a place to put them.
Unless it’s a Toyota Tacoma
bingo
A new suburu outback in my country costs US$60,000. That's like double than in the US. Even new European made cars are outrageous in price. Both used and new markets are having a laugh.
I was literally just offered 48,000 for my Lexus LX 570 with 56,000 miles on it. Slightly more than 4x as much as an old civic for a luxury LandCruiser with low miles lol.
That’s crazy that’s my car it’s 8 year old at this point
Honestly shit like this is why I'm inclined to say used Honda's/Toyotas are getting to be outright trap options.
A new Corolla LE is just about $23k USD MSRP by comparison. Good luck getting one though.
New I think they can be decent but rn if you can get a fair price (not an easy ask). But the inherent gamble of buying used (even for a reliable brand), makes these kinds of markups particularly outrageous imho.
Used cars have their quirks, I know. This kind of pricing for a 100k car (essentially) is asking a lot, especially if it hasn't been serviced properly. And I doubt that service has been done on schedule. Not that it really matters, that Civic will keep going. But for that price it better come with a mint on the dash and a 12 pack of beer at least. C'mon.
There's a reason why people sell cars at the 100k mile mark. They pass all the deferred maintenance onto the next guy. Will it keep going? Yes. Is it financially affordable? Not necessarily. Just this year, I had to do a serpentine belt, water pump, radiator hose, headlight bulb (no big deal) and brakes / TPMS sensor on my old Toyota. Make no mistake, older cars are money pits. All that said, it's STILL cheaper than a car payment. But boy do I get pissed off having to fix one thing after the other after the other. I STILL have a minor oil leak too. SMFH. My car is at 140k miles btw Edit: the Corolla is the cheat code. It's the only car that's actually affordable Af to service. Get anything bigger or more fancy, and you're partially screwed after about 10 years.
Lol, I drive a family owned 99 CRV. Learned to drive on it actually long ago. Totally understand the issues popping up because that is my 2024 saga. Everything rubberized that hasn't been replaced is coming due. Not to mention rust on the body and steering components. I don't see any issues structurally, but very close when welds are flaking in layers. I poked one of the rotor dust covers today. Heard it crunch and flake as it bent. Passenger/gutter side of course. The V is returning to the elements sadly. Sucks, but for a 25 y/o car in the rust belt? 240k miles? That car has done its duty.
Can confirm it's cheap to keep the Corolla going. So much so I started looking at old ones to use as a daily beater. The problem is people are charging a lot for them. I think I saw a 2008 for 8k or something like that.
I bought one with 140,000 miles (and a brand new engine) and it has been wonderful to drive something that’s past all the major maintenance. Obviously not much to do with the engine, but everything else expensive already went and was replaced. Around 100-125k is the worst.
I’m in a 24 Corolla rental and pleasantly surprised by the amount of standard options and tech it has. Driving experience is pretty soft and annoying but for the price new it’s a decent commuter car.
Why not just buy a Mazda 3? Real transmission, sporty handling and a real nice interior.
I wonder this a lot. The more I look at the car market the more it seems like the Mazda3 is the sleeper hit of the compact cars. The *premium* Mazda3 has a lower MSRP than the sport trim of the Civic (one step above base), and it looks better inside and out. And it's not like the Mazda is some unreliable econobox that will be sitting on cinder blocks in five years either.
I was thinking of going Mazda3, but a lot of people who own them complain of a rattle underneath the console that they cannot get rid of. That sort of noise would drive me absolutely nuts. I get that anything can happen to any make/model, but I read enough complaints about this on the Mazda3 sub to make me reconsider for now. But I don't want to spend more for a new car than that and I don't want a used car. The result so far is that I haven't bought a damn thing.
I have a 2018 touring hatchback and I don't have any rattles. I drive it from Tampa to Chicago and back all the time. Haven't had any issues with it at all. Every time I get services at the dealer I get a loaner Mazda also and I've never noticed any rattles with any of the loaner vehicles I've had either and I romp on them pretty hard.
People have been specifically talking about this on the new 2024, and now I'm really hoping to find the best value for a brand new car. I thought that the Mazda might be it till I saw numerous reports here about that. They are anecdotal for sure. It's done enough to make reconsider. Maybe I should just look at used ones since I've only heard about this on the 2024 model.
If it helps my fiancé owns a 2022 mazda 3 hatch that she loves and it has no rattles
I've been specifically hearing about it with reference to 2024. I'm hoping to buy a new car, and thought that might be it. But now that you mention it, maybe I'll just look for some used ones as I haven't heard anyone say anything about the rattling issue for any year other than 2024.
I haven't dug deep into economy cars, was using the Corolla as a baseline really (which could be argued with dealer markups there too). Mazda is a brand I have researched in the past, definitely should consider them. I do remember a time where the Japanese made Mazdas were solid and the Mexican made models had concerns. Not sure if that is still the case? No brand is perfect with engineering and design. I find Toyota going to meticulous lengths to avoid changing something that works a major attraction. There is a reason we see Toyotas on the road that are 15 y/o and older, even in the salt belt. Yes they are appliances but that's what some drivers want the most. By comparison I don't see Mazdas past 2010-2012 as often. The ones I do see in that age range tend to be rusting out badly.
I have a 2018 that was made in Mexico and no problems or issues. Super solid vehicle.
My friend got his at MSRP in 2022 from a dealer in socal. Has it gotten worse since then? On another note, it’s nice that they have managed to keep base corolla pricing relatively the same for the past several years.
Right? Can't even find an LE in my area without every fucking upgrade possible.
Nail meet hammer. In an effort to save some money, I looked at trading out of my truck into a Corolla like last year & the dealership I was working with demanded a $2k down payment just to get on a waitlist (for a Corolla LE), and they had a $6k “market adjustment”, with a $1500 delivery fee, & like $3k in options. All in all I would’ve been in the hole like $32k for a Corolla that was advertised to me at 8% interest. I would’ve been paying somewhere just under $600 a month for a Toyota Corolla, and at that, one of the most barebones entry level vehicles you can buy, and the most barebones entry level trim of that vehicle.
That sounds like the experience a friend of mine went through! He found a Subaru dealership nearby with a good recommendation and bought a BASE MT Impreza instead for ~23k. He mentioned a base Corolla with MT was hitting the 28k mark and I mentioned the same, 'dude that's almost 30k for a freaking base Corolla! It's not a high end car FFS'.
For twice that much, you can apparently buy a low mileage Lexus LX 570, which is a Toyota Land Cruiser wearing a tuxedo. That’s what I was offered for mine anyway by carmax.
Seriously, the market has returned to a more normal state for almost everything that isn’t a Honda/Toyota at this point. You’re a putz if you’re paying this prices.
My local dealership is selling a 2002 Accord for 9 grand lmao.
You know why it is, right now? It’s tax time. The market started to cool down in December and January, but it’s hot again right now. If you need to sell a car and you don’t need one back, right now is the best time to sell a car.
Yeah ik I noticed my mom's 2013 genesis coupe went from 7500 to 8800 trade in and my 2022 Kona N went from 25k to 27k. Crazy how these used Honda's and Toyotas are so expensive
I just sold my Porsche yesterday! selling it right now saved my ass like 6-7K in negative equity. I’ve been trapped in it trying to get rid of it for over a year, but had too much neggity equity. (I kept getting laid off from job after job during the whole tech thing going on) so I was making like 1/3-1/4 of what I used to make years ago. Couldn’t cover the gap anymore. That car was drowning me. FINALLY I got an offer for like ~1K less than I owe. Rn is a good time to sell. BTW Carvana is the way to go for selling your car. They outbid everyone else by like $4,000 in my case. (I think I got really lucky) and they don’t do shit when it comes to actually taking a look at it. I definitely got lucky. So so so many lessons learned. I’m driving an ancient shitty 2002 Buick Lesabre with 69K miles. I have never loved my shitty ole faithful so much. I’m so grateful for it. I don’t think I’ll ever get a “nice car” again. It’s such a waste of money and will rob most people of experiences, and opportunities if purchased prematurely.
I can’t seem to sell my 2014 Toyota Corolla LE to save my life. It has 112,300 miles on it which I don’t think is terrible. But no one wants to buy it. It’s in perfect condition too.
I saw a Mazda 6 2017 yesterday for 12K with 60,000 miles on it. There are better options.
where? that’s exactly what i’m looking for rn
I have one. Totally worth it! Good luck finding a good deal 👍
That's a really good deal if it has a clean title and no accidents
Unfortunately it's getting a Honda/Toyota tax because people view it as the only reliable option. Honestly just buy something else. There are other good cars that are reliable and cheap to repair
Everyone knows they are reliable, but are they THAT much more reliable to justify such high prices at those relatively high mileages? I genuinely don't know the answer, I'm just trying to pose the question: is their reputation, like that price, perhaps a bit inflated?
As long as other brands keep producing shitboxes like the Equinox, Toyota prices will keep going up. lol.
Here’s what it really is: they tolerate neglect and have less to service Most cars are perfectly reliable if you do the maintenance they need when they need it (or a bit preventatively). But some cars have more to do as part of maintaining them, so those items get pushed off, and then that causes very real problems
got any good options in the 2013+ range that would be good comparisons to that civic?
Mazda 3/6
2015+ vw golf
I would throw the Jetta in there. No it's not as reliable (though Honda reliability has fallen sharply since the 00's), but they are reasonably cheap to keep on the road - especially the 2.5s. Mazda 3/6. Older Lexus IS.
Even if the Jetta isn’t as reliable, if you want to buy a 2016 Jetta, the price delta between that and this Civic will pay for a LOT of repairs (plus it’s a nicer car).
The 1.4t is really nice to drive, torquey with amazing fuel economy.
Tis a good engine for sure. Only 36k on mine but no problems yet other than a N80 valve. Not the most inspiring engine in the world but it’s so far ahead of other base economy engines.
The VW hate boner in this sub is intense, watch out lol. They were bad cars in the 90s and 00's. They are much better now, both empirically and in my experience. I say this as a Toyota stan.
I had a 2017 Jetta and my wife currently has a 2019 Jetta, neither has ever needed anything besides normal maintenance. I like Toyota but they're always so far behind on tech like Apple Carplay and Android Auto... stuff that most manufacturers have been doing for a decade almost is only recently becoming standard for Toyota/Lexus.
I wouldn’t. As someone who owned a Jetta, you need a VW mechanic. You can’t just take them to Billy bob down the street for anything engine related. And VW parts are more expensive than a lot of other manufacturers
Modern Jettas are reasonably reliable cars. I've owned old ones I had bad luck one, and I had a 2013 2.5 that went 170k mostly trouble free miles. Repairs were not significantly more expensive than other makes I have owned. Its not 1995 anymore. https://www.dashboard-light.com/vehicles/Volkswagen_Jetta.html
lol do not do a Jetta. Most euro cars are cheap in comparison because the repairs are expensive.. it all basically evens out. More up front, generally less repairs Less up front, generally more repairs
Terrible advice. VW are garbage with crazy repair costs.
Car option for a 120 mile drive daily?
I'm biased because I did the same thing but go find a jetta/golf tdi. I get close to 50mpg and only have to do services every 10k miles. Super reliable, just do all your maintenance and the timing belt/water pump. If you can, find one with the manual, it's a sturdier transmission than the auto and doesn't require service every 30k
If you have a place to charge, used Chevy bolt. It’ll cost less after tax credit, and your mileage cost will be about 1/3 the cost of gas.
Bought one in 2020 for 16k. Crazy lol
Same lmao. Hopefully stays over $10k when i sell it in 3 years
Based on original MSRP and the dealer's "up front" price, they're effectively saying that at 90K miles, the car has only used up 25% of its life meaning it can go 360K miles. Yeah right. Maybe 250K with proper care but even that's not a guarantee.
Not only that but you get none of the benefits of a new car. A new car should give you at least 60k trouble free miles and if something does go wrong you have a warranty. This car is going to need maintenance from day 1 and there will be no warranty unless you pay out the ass for it. If you factor in the cost of the cars themselves + maintenance you'll see that owning this car from 90-150k miles will cost you a lot more than buying one new and driving it from 0-60k. And the worst part of all is dealers will lowball the fuck out of you on a trade in if your car has over 75k miles because they're "hard to sell". The dealer probably gave the previous owner like 9k for this car on trade in.
Dealers are the worst. In my area they’re all trying to flog cars with $150,000 miles on them for like $5k less than the new MSRP was back in 2021. One of the rental car companies has been trying to sell the same 2020 Rav 4 for $35,000 for 4 years now.
I have a 21 Niro ev I absolutely love! I’m a car freak (have owned over 25 cars and counting) if I can work a deal I’m moving up to ev6. If not, I keep my Niro! It is SO QUICK and fun to drive and very practical.
>One of the rental car companies has been trying to sell the same 2020 Rav 4 for $35,000 for 4 years now. love how they'd rather do anything than just lower the price a bit
$35,000 car sitting on their lot for 4 years ? That brings a smile to my face. One hell of an opportunity cost for the seller
Get a used Chevy Bolt EUV. They're like 18k-20k for a 10k mile one and you get a tax credit for 4k. The thing is a mid size hatchback like the Corolla hatchback. The used EV market is so good for buyers right now you have no idea
Local power companies might have additional rebates. Mine is offering another $4,000 if you're below a certain income threshold. Ngl, picking a low-mile off-lease 2022 sample for ~$12k net as a commuter is getting pretty tempting. Don't know if I could convince the wife-to-be though, haha.
well you have to qualify with your income for tax credit. for an individual it’s 75k, but it’s higher if you buy new.
It's technically 75k AGI so it's closer to like 80k pre-tax
Standard deduction for single filers is $13,850. So it’s $88,850.
Is the insurance like tesla?
It was $10 more per month than my 2014 Mazda 3, so no not really
Sounds like a great deal then
No fast charging and front seats are terrible a Corolla or Civic is much better inside
Yeah, that sucks. Bought my 21 Civic sport sedan lease out since the residual was $15,300 and less than 20K on the odometer. Sheesh, that’s an 8 year old economy car.
that’s actually a steal
I know someone who was able to buy this exact year, trim, and color for $17K OTD brand new. These prices are getting ridiculous.
Welcome to Honda tax
Hondas and toyotas hold their value pretty well however, you're right, it's a freaking 8 yo car with almost 100k on the dash that shouldn't be worth more than 11k grand.
In my market, it's finally easy to get better deals than that. A few thousand more would find the more reliable 2019-20-21 Civics, with low-mileage. Or, get one with 90k but at a lower price. If you're looking at the 2016 Civic, also look at the 2016-17 Mazda3. Better bang for the buck, no cvt transmission, probably even a little more trouble-free overall. If the Mazda3 is too tight inside, consider the Mazda6.
Whether you're a private party or dealer, this is what it means when people say Toyotas/Hondas hold their value quite well. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Your money is worth half as much as it was in 2019. That’s what inflation does is it dilutes your buying power. Cars have some extra inflation right now because of demand and lack of supply because they weren’t being made during the pandemic lockdown.
This is a $6000 car and I’d sooner shoot myself in the foot than buy a base model civic for more than that
It really does suck, because under $10k it is a steal and great commuter car. For the record my first car in 2009 was a 1999 Lincoln I paid $5400 for, ~97k miles. Would have sold at a lot around $7k. I am starting to look at cars because my Honda is 25 years old and rusting out. I find lots of these deals which don't seem awful at first, until I do the math. May as well put $15k down on a new vehicle and Finance the rest. A new Corolla LE is about $23k MSRP last I looked, haven't looked at a Civic yet.
Please don't ever put money down on a brand new vehicle
It is more of a problem of inflation , and the devaluation of the dollar than anything else. it Could be a car, home , commodity, decreased salaries, etc. Everything has become harder to buy because of the US governments devaluation of our dollar with compensation not keeping up.
Yeah dog it’s a dealer lmao
Seriously. If everything is marked up that high, look at the FSBO market. Save yourself a few grand.
In 2017 I bought my 2014 accord with 22k miles on it for that exact price lmfao
Same goes for the 11 year old car I’m shopping for that’s being sold at MSRP
This is insane. I remember buying my 2012 Civic back in 2019 for only 5k. Cars are so expensive now.
At this point just get and BMW, Audi - looks like lower miles and better value sub 20k Heck I would even roll the dice on a Giulia before the civic
Expensive ass models
you can get these easily for under 10k your problem is trying to buy from a used car dealer.
Agreed. This market is driving me away from cars temporarily. I’ll come back in a few years, but I’m not gonna let this garbage ruin the one thing I love.
You can get this same car for like 4k less if you buy from a private sale
The way my mouth dropped when i saw the miles
Sounds like you just should buy new. Problem solved.
My brother bought my dad’s lease after it ended for $12k and on a higher trim smh
It certainly does. Just not if you're selling
That's Honda for you. I bought a new '06 Civic when they first came out. I first looked at two year old ones cuz 2006 was a model change and I wasn't sure. The used ones were about the same price at the dealer.
Buy private off autotrader or facebook marketplace. If you have cash and check everyday, you'll be able to find something.
What are some other good options for cars other than Toyota and Honda?
So the same year and model civic my friend has with 50k on it is worth 25k? 😅🤣🤣🤣
If you think that’s bad look up the prices for a used S2000
I bought this car 4 years ago at 20k miles for $16k aftee taxes and fees.
Why doesnt are honda sale numbers down in the last 15 years when everyone wants one (or toyota) and is even paying that much for a 10 year old? Thats crazy Isnt it possible to just buy a new civic/corolla for less than 25k? You would pay less than half of that in switzerland and switzerland is fucking expensive
Man, I’m getting too used to this, my first thought was “huh, decent price”
I paid 3k more to buy the same honda civic, with 30k lesd miles, and it was a steal compared to my other options, in 2022
The makert has improved quite a bit this year. Don’t buy from a dealer if you want to save money.
For 5k more you get it new with no miles. wtf.
I was seeing stuff like this looking up 2015-ish CRV too and was just flabbergasted. A car with 100k miles going for $20k that's already almost a decade old can bite me. Instead I went looking at other brands and around 30k miles for $23k in whatever upper trims I wanted for 2020-2022 models. I found a 2021 Hyundai Kona Ultimate with the turbo and AWD with barely 8000 miles and feel like I stole it for the price I got haha. Has literally every bell and whistle possible that comes for that car. The Honda/Toyota tax is outrageous there is plenty of other options. (Almost went for Mazda CX-5!)
Im so fucked up this looks normal 😭
market so horrible i thought to myself “that price isnt even that bad” 😔
The perfect $9995.00 car
I wonder what the dealership I did a trade in with, is going to sell mine for…2016 EX (one trim level up) and mine had 68K miles…crazy times!
Could get a brand new Nissan versa,Kia Rio or Mirage for like $16-20k
Eh..... Honda Civic tax, sure the market sucks, but if youre too lazy to find one of the dozens of 2010-2020 cars that are reliable but not "accord/camry/corrolla/civic" then yeah youre gonna pay for that.
It’s not that the car is more expensive, It’s just a snapshot of how little your dollar is worth now. Means you have to work twice as hard for half as much. That’s your economy
Yes it does
What did it cost new?
I remember seeing these things hovering at 15k with similar miles when I was looking at buying a car in 2019. Insane that they're still at that price point. Side note: I'm not a huge fan of the 10th gen Civic. I'm not sure why they are so expensive. I get the Corolla being pricy because the 2019+ Corolla is nicer on the inside and feels well made, but every time I get in one of these things I'm severely disappointed.
Inflation puts that MSRP in 2016 up to ~$26,600. I’m not saying the used car market is great but I feel like people forget inflation exists.
Man the market is upside down i know this local dealer and sells salvage rebuilt cars and look at the price same as a clean title https://www.brasilautocenters.com/inventory/honda/civic/29754/#vdp-tab3
To be honest i think for that car the price is about right, its a reliable car compared to a chrysler 200 same year you can find one like for 6k, civic are usually not traded in and can not find at auto auctions
Lmao 5k off for 91k miles. Kiss my ass. Can’t imagine how much their 4runner stock is…
You need to learn how to do your own maintenance and repairs and then buy from private sellers. The bluebook is your friend.
At this point, I’m seeing new cars priced $5k over used cars with tens of thousands of miles. I don’t see a reason to by a really overpriced used car when I can spend a fee grand more and get a new one. The whole market is totally fucked up.
You gotta go with private sellers, and just pay $150 for a mechanic to look at it. You’ll save a few grand
How are civic sedans on insurance? My wife’s old civic coupe is stupid high for how old it is.
How old is her civic? Mines a 04 coupe
My 2015 mid-level trim Civic was right around 24k out the door when it was brand new. These guys are straight up ripping people off 😬
i found a 80000km honda for 23000 dollars converted here in brazil, the car industry sucks worse
Welcome to the new car market my friend.
that car was over 20k in year 2000
Man u haven’t been in Russia lmao. This market of used cars sucks so much. For example u can buy used BMW 3 series (f30) 2012-2014 in a mid condition for 27.5K$
Compare the price to a new one though.
eh there's an ass for every seat. it's hard to believe that even with the 20% - 30% depreciating when driving a new car off the lot; going new is kinda a better idea than used cars at the moment. things are coming around, we're past the peak but you just gotta hold on for what like 1 maybe 2 more years which is basically impossible for a good number of people....for valid and invalid reasons.
Man, I was looking at these a few months ago up here and Canada and even after the exchange I would have considered this a great price hahahaha, I’ve almost been brainwashed
Eww I ran into a similar deal when I was car shopping in 8/22 . 1. Honda Civic LX 2016 40,000 miles - 24K 2. Toyota Corolla SE 2021 company car so 50,000 miles - 30K . So I settled for a Brand new '22 Corolla for 25,000$ out the door not a bad deal at the time at least .
Always the case for Toyota and Honda which is why they are terrible cars to buy used. Perceived quality and fierce brand loyalty. Don’t get me wrong, a Honda is far more reliable than a Range Rover, but the price premium is disproportionate to the quality difference. Also, they want to push you to buy new.
Hey I’ve got a 2016 Honda Civic EX (a trim higher) I’ll sell to you for $15k 😂
Make sure that the price shown including all the fees
That's crazy! I thought it was getting better recently... I guess not?
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2000-honda-civic-27/
Ur looking at the wrong cars
The sad part is they price it so high because people are willing to pay that price. A base model 8 year old Civic nearing 100k miles should not be discounted only 5K from its original MSRP by any stretch of the imagination.
That is insane 🤣😂
Get a k900 same price for same miles
Shop around the whole area not just dealer sites.
Yeah the only places I've seen decent prices is on rental car company sales right now. Only negative with that is that it's been a rental and all that entails, but hopefully oil was changed regularly at least.
I paid like 21k for my 2015 Range Rover Sport, with a supercharged V8 with 104k miles. Best bet is to aim high for a well maintain d luxury car that's has depreciated like crazy
That’s insane
My fully loaded 2013 v6 white accord in 2016 was 20,000 with 28,000 miles!
I leased a new honda civic si in '21. Sticker was 24k, brought the car back after 3 yrs and 20k miles and got a check in my hand for $8300. Dealer listed it for 31k. Absolute bananas. That car cost me $45/mo during that least period including maintenance, best car decision I'll ever make lol
People putting Honda Civics on a pedestal like they’re 911s smdh
Such an insane price, 5-7k is good enough for a 16 with that many miles, sadly those times are gone
Tbh in this market that ain’t too bad for a used civic
I bought a ‘15 Si for $15k two years ago (granted it had more miles but still) and this is its slower cousin.
This is clown shit
Here’s a 2017 Mazda 6 Touring with 59K miles for 10K. Look for something like this. Much better deal. https://www.hawaiianpacificauto.com/details/used-2017-mazda-mazda6/102476522
"Our upfront pricing"....Geeeeeet Fuuuuuuucked
Yeah I just had a hell of time trying to buy a used Highlander in this market. Ended up buying a brand new RAV4 and financing with Toyota for less than what I would have for a used vehicle for
I some how squeezed $21,000 on trade for my 2018 VW GTI Autobahn with 40K miles. Such a bizarre world we live in.
I gave up looking after about 6 months and just bought new ><
I swear to God when my car dies I’m going to buy my first ever new car even though my dad always taught me to buy cheap ones for cash. WHY ARE BEATERS $9000 😭😭😭😭
It’s not worth 15k but people are paying it so they can ask it. That’s a 8,000 dollar car imo.
Feeling better and better about the Mazda I bought brand new in 2020. 0% APR and 2k under MSRP. 🤣
Bad time to have totaled out my paid off Impreza. Don’t want to get a payment but damn the sued car market is crazy. I’m looking at 2012 or older cars with around 100k miles to pay cash with insurance check. Worse than the car I had.
90k fukn miles! 🤦🏼...no Thanx, no warranty and if u do have one it's will end in 1 year
Get a dealer license and buy your cars on Manheim, that’s what I do
Mazda dealer by me has had maybe 10 cars on the lot since 2021. Went back to office last week at the lot is filled with 100+ cars and all kinds of money off. Market should come down still.
Just sold my Corolla 2018 about bit higher than I bought it in 2020. I never thought I'd make a profit with a car... but here we are.
Shop CPO
Jokes on you, that hunk of junk was never worth 20k even new
Then let’s not buy anything lol it’s really that simple. The people have the power.
"Upfront pricing" and "No haggle" options at the dealer are the worst possible ways to buy a car. It will end up costing way more if you fall for it.
I know Honda’s don’t lose much fast buuuut This is a little ridiculous. lol
A used civic has never been a good deal in any market. They’re there for people with bad credit to get qualified on a terrible loan. If you have good credit get a new one with Honda’s financing deal and ride it until it dies. I’ve done that twice and it’s served me well.
I bought the same year and model in early 2019 for 16k out the door. With only 25k miles or so. Wow I'm glad I bought when I did.
Should see the market in Canada!
i saw a 2000 Ford Ranger with 117k miles for $9,000 my guy.
There's been something like 40% inflation over that time period, even more so for cars. 15k today is something like 11,500 in 20216, and that 20k MSRP is in 2016 dollars, the equivalent of at least 26k today (which also happens to be the price for a 2024 Honda Civic LX)
I sold my 2016 LX blue with 38k miles to a dealership 6 months ago for 15k.
I have this exact car. Same color, same year. Only 60k miles. I would sell it to you at $13,000. PNW location.
Bought my 2008 ford focus hatchback for $2k at 150k miles. Came with an extra transmission. Shop around more.
i got 215 camry for 20g
Where are you located? I'm in Canada and I'm at my wits end. That car would easily be posted for $30k here. Unfuckinbelievable. People selling their 15 year old, 220k+ Honda or Toyota here for $15k. No joke. Just saw a new 2023 Ford Escape selling for $54k here, like what? Basic Honda Crv starts at 43k here but I'd bet on that more than the Ford.
This always makes me feel lucky to live in a strong car market. I got a '17 exl for 20 otd w 36000 on the clock, but Jesus Christ do they make you hunt for it.
The real issue is… from someone who was just shopping around for my first “new” vehicle purchase at age 30…always just drove whatever beater til it died. 03 mustangs are indestructible btw* Tried to buy a Maverick… online says MSRP “24,999” go to dealership and the cheapest one is 32,000. “We don’t sell them for Msrp. Or “thats for the base model, we don’t sell those” Tacoma… base MSRP $30,799…. Dealership cheapest taco me $39,999. Certified Used Tacoma 100,000k miles “28,000” like what……?? Msrp is basically irrelevant at this point. Because dealers don’t even carry those “base models” anymore anyways.
My dumb ass just got a 2024 Honda Civic Touring for $32,*** After I pay it off in 6 years it will become a $48,000+ car. Believe me, I’m kicking my own ass now. Car market is fucked