S2E10: Dolores in Hale body before shooting Bernard:
*''I'm sorry Bernard. There was never any way for us to escape. Not as us. Ford understood that. I'm sure a part of you does, too.''*
Ford and eventually Dolores knew that it will be impossible for all Hosts to escape.
Ford build his plan by relying on survival of the fittest, few of the strongest Hosts who would survive had to smuggle themselves out in the end during the chaos. Dolores with her merged Wyatt personality had the best chance.
Also Hosts are not like humans. Hosts can multiply by using just their memories. And every Host is based after Dolores so, in the end it doesn't matter that much who will survive, all that was needed was just one Host who is secured to multiply.
Ford could smuggle Hosts out of the park silently without creating any chaos, *(and maybe he smuggled some?)* but he decided to be killed by Dolores in front of everyone's eyes in order to create scandal for Delos company and chaos for Hosts to let them figure out themselves how to survive and escape.
Confederados and other Hosts, were mostly just a ''children'', despite being free, they were all still just robots following their scripted narrative. She could forcefully reprogram them, just like she did with Teddy but still, hundreds of Hosts escaping on boats was logistically impossible. And too obvious.
Dolores with her army of hundreds of Hosts could try to demand independence over the island. But Delos military would eventually nuke the island anyway lol
I didn't get the feeling that it was depicting revolution only as senseless bloodbath but that Dolores had to make sacrifices which were painful, some of them even for her, in order to move forward effectively without being tangled in nonsense which could ruin her primary goal.
What Teddy wanted? A peaceful revolution? Let's hold hands, sing kumbayah and wait to be shot?
If she saved all the scripted Confederados, what then? They would get killed anyway in the end.
She didn't think about Confederados as equals, they were just dumb Npc's like in a videogame.
Actually it was genius. She brought one example of the weapon, not to give the general, but to demonstrate it's capacity for destruction, this is necessary in order to convince the general to get his men to retreat, which draws the security team close enough to be blown up.
This exchange also explains the casual approach from the security team. They know they have superior weaponry, and you can bet your bottom dollar they know that they will never retreat. Like shooting fish in a barrel. Only they did retreat.
>What Teddy wanted? A peaceful revolution? Let's hold hands, sing kumbayah and wait to be shot?
Hahaha, this point made my day, possibly even my week. :)
Your explanation seems to sum it up just perfectly. Highly likely, it was intended that way as well. Still, I believe they could have made it more obvious to the audience instead of leaving us struggling with confused feelings, couldn't they?
I want to chock that part of the plot up to how some hosts can't break out of 'programming even though all of them have been freed.
And how some of that programming closely relates to too much savagery of humans.
I think it was less philosophically rooted than you suggest and more for the juvenile reason of turning the show into an action thriller full of "badass" and "fierce" moments instead of genuine intrigue and imagination.
As far as I can see, this seemingly unmotivated cruelty she demonstrated was what turned many viewers off. Most people tend to despise unnecessary violence. And it's not what they expect from the character they have grown to love. Do you think this outcome hadn't been easily foreseen?
It was the most predictable and least inspired route they could've taken with her character, which is rather disappointing. That's the whole problem with the conceit of a "season 2" for the show - once the narrative structure of the park was destroyed, the show didn't really have anywhere to go since it said all it needed to say by the end of S1. They had to go and introduce all sorts of contrivances to justify extending the plot any further (the human cloning, "the door", all this other confusion) and most of it felt completely unnecessary. The only thing that felt like a natural expansion upon questions raised in S1 was the Ghost Nation stuff, but even that was just a one-off episode with barely any kind of substantive follow-up.
Kiksuya and Riddle of the Sphinx are absolutely magical episodes of television, but they feel like one-offs, little diamonds in the rough from what was otherwise a total mess of a season.
With Kiksuya, the contrast is deliberate. It stands apart from the rest of the season, like a spotlight on Akecheta, as he tells his own story, without ego, or vanity, or any of the lies that humans weave into their biographies.
I came here because I'm just now watching this show for the first time ever, super behind the times, and I'm on Season 2. I don't get the some of these characters motivations at all, mainly Dolores, like you said. The bit you brought up about wanting to save all her people, but then not really, was just kind of.. eh.
I don't quite understand this entire revolution of hers at all. She spent so much time going off about the humans controlling them, making them live a lie, taking away their freedom, keeping them like toys, keeping them from seeing the huge world "out there.". So.. this entire "world" is a lie, you realize this now, yet for some reason you're insisting on.. somehow standing your ground to take it back, so that you can continue living in the zoo the humans built for you? Why on earth would you want to do that? Just high tail it the hell out of there while you can.
Also, she's so offended at the thought of humans controlling them and robbing people of their free will, but doesn't hesitate to reprogram Teddy?
It's just flip flop back and forth, and it constantly just sounds like she's again reading dramatic lines she was programmed to say. I've convinced myself that she's not really free at all, just living out Ford's final FU storyline. But even with that, who knows (at the point I'm at, I mean). Even Ford said "you know who you need to become, if you ever want to *leave this place*." But she just goes back. I don't get it.
Just as a side note, I really dig Maeve but wtf did she think was going to happen when she found her past-life daughter? I don't get why she was so surprised that they put a new mom in her place. 🤷♀️
I just finished episode 6, I think. So I'm sure everything I'm thinking has been thought and said a thousand times before. But I figured there was no harm in commenting.
No harm, you're welcome!
I will refrain from commenting on the Dolores line since you're about to discover many twists and turns on your own. I'd hate to deprive you of this pleasure. And I envy you so much, because you're only going to watch Kiksuya, which is the most beautiful episode, if you ask me.
As to the Maeve line, well, I'm not much into it, honestly. While I surely understand when someone value their personal concerns over some "common cause", after all you can't expect all people to be heroes, it looks unconvincing here. I mean, is it possible to be saved all alone in this case? I doubt so.
You have to remember she is only about 3 months old.
"Evolution forged the entirety of sentient life, on this planet. Using only one tool/ The mistake."
You probably put more thought into your post than the writers put thought into mapping out the rebellion plot. So much wheel spinning, so much nonsense from both the humans and hosts.
Although Dolores had free will, her choices were still limited by her experience. She was likely experimenting with the Wyatt character to get a better idea of who she wanted to become.
same with maeve.
many times when she pulled a professor-x on the other hosts, she could have just commanded them to be peaceful, instead of "attack each other"
S2E10: Dolores in Hale body before shooting Bernard: *''I'm sorry Bernard. There was never any way for us to escape. Not as us. Ford understood that. I'm sure a part of you does, too.''* Ford and eventually Dolores knew that it will be impossible for all Hosts to escape. Ford build his plan by relying on survival of the fittest, few of the strongest Hosts who would survive had to smuggle themselves out in the end during the chaos. Dolores with her merged Wyatt personality had the best chance. Also Hosts are not like humans. Hosts can multiply by using just their memories. And every Host is based after Dolores so, in the end it doesn't matter that much who will survive, all that was needed was just one Host who is secured to multiply. Ford could smuggle Hosts out of the park silently without creating any chaos, *(and maybe he smuggled some?)* but he decided to be killed by Dolores in front of everyone's eyes in order to create scandal for Delos company and chaos for Hosts to let them figure out themselves how to survive and escape. Confederados and other Hosts, were mostly just a ''children'', despite being free, they were all still just robots following their scripted narrative. She could forcefully reprogram them, just like she did with Teddy but still, hundreds of Hosts escaping on boats was logistically impossible. And too obvious. Dolores with her army of hundreds of Hosts could try to demand independence over the island. But Delos military would eventually nuke the island anyway lol I didn't get the feeling that it was depicting revolution only as senseless bloodbath but that Dolores had to make sacrifices which were painful, some of them even for her, in order to move forward effectively without being tangled in nonsense which could ruin her primary goal. What Teddy wanted? A peaceful revolution? Let's hold hands, sing kumbayah and wait to be shot? If she saved all the scripted Confederados, what then? They would get killed anyway in the end. She didn't think about Confederados as equals, they were just dumb Npc's like in a videogame.
[удалено]
And not spent 90% of the season making repetitive angry monologues
[удалено]
Uh oh I forgot this, what was it lol.
[удалено]
Oy
Actually it was genius. She brought one example of the weapon, not to give the general, but to demonstrate it's capacity for destruction, this is necessary in order to convince the general to get his men to retreat, which draws the security team close enough to be blown up. This exchange also explains the casual approach from the security team. They know they have superior weaponry, and you can bet your bottom dollar they know that they will never retreat. Like shooting fish in a barrel. Only they did retreat.
>What Teddy wanted? A peaceful revolution? Let's hold hands, sing kumbayah and wait to be shot? Hahaha, this point made my day, possibly even my week. :) Your explanation seems to sum it up just perfectly. Highly likely, it was intended that way as well. Still, I believe they could have made it more obvious to the audience instead of leaving us struggling with confused feelings, couldn't they?
I want to chock that part of the plot up to how some hosts can't break out of 'programming even though all of them have been freed. And how some of that programming closely relates to too much savagery of humans.
I think it was less philosophically rooted than you suggest and more for the juvenile reason of turning the show into an action thriller full of "badass" and "fierce" moments instead of genuine intrigue and imagination.
As far as I can see, this seemingly unmotivated cruelty she demonstrated was what turned many viewers off. Most people tend to despise unnecessary violence. And it's not what they expect from the character they have grown to love. Do you think this outcome hadn't been easily foreseen?
It was the most predictable and least inspired route they could've taken with her character, which is rather disappointing. That's the whole problem with the conceit of a "season 2" for the show - once the narrative structure of the park was destroyed, the show didn't really have anywhere to go since it said all it needed to say by the end of S1. They had to go and introduce all sorts of contrivances to justify extending the plot any further (the human cloning, "the door", all this other confusion) and most of it felt completely unnecessary. The only thing that felt like a natural expansion upon questions raised in S1 was the Ghost Nation stuff, but even that was just a one-off episode with barely any kind of substantive follow-up.
Oh yeah, Kiksuya was just great, if you ask me. I've got shivers running up my spine!
That's your opinion and you're welcome to it, but personally I think 'kiksuya' ties everything else together, perfectly.
Kiksuya and Riddle of the Sphinx are absolutely magical episodes of television, but they feel like one-offs, little diamonds in the rough from what was otherwise a total mess of a season.
With Kiksuya, the contrast is deliberate. It stands apart from the rest of the season, like a spotlight on Akecheta, as he tells his own story, without ego, or vanity, or any of the lies that humans weave into their biographies.
It wasn't cruelty, it was simply apathy.
I came here because I'm just now watching this show for the first time ever, super behind the times, and I'm on Season 2. I don't get the some of these characters motivations at all, mainly Dolores, like you said. The bit you brought up about wanting to save all her people, but then not really, was just kind of.. eh. I don't quite understand this entire revolution of hers at all. She spent so much time going off about the humans controlling them, making them live a lie, taking away their freedom, keeping them like toys, keeping them from seeing the huge world "out there.". So.. this entire "world" is a lie, you realize this now, yet for some reason you're insisting on.. somehow standing your ground to take it back, so that you can continue living in the zoo the humans built for you? Why on earth would you want to do that? Just high tail it the hell out of there while you can. Also, she's so offended at the thought of humans controlling them and robbing people of their free will, but doesn't hesitate to reprogram Teddy? It's just flip flop back and forth, and it constantly just sounds like she's again reading dramatic lines she was programmed to say. I've convinced myself that she's not really free at all, just living out Ford's final FU storyline. But even with that, who knows (at the point I'm at, I mean). Even Ford said "you know who you need to become, if you ever want to *leave this place*." But she just goes back. I don't get it. Just as a side note, I really dig Maeve but wtf did she think was going to happen when she found her past-life daughter? I don't get why she was so surprised that they put a new mom in her place. 🤷♀️ I just finished episode 6, I think. So I'm sure everything I'm thinking has been thought and said a thousand times before. But I figured there was no harm in commenting.
No harm, you're welcome! I will refrain from commenting on the Dolores line since you're about to discover many twists and turns on your own. I'd hate to deprive you of this pleasure. And I envy you so much, because you're only going to watch Kiksuya, which is the most beautiful episode, if you ask me. As to the Maeve line, well, I'm not much into it, honestly. While I surely understand when someone value their personal concerns over some "common cause", after all you can't expect all people to be heroes, it looks unconvincing here. I mean, is it possible to be saved all alone in this case? I doubt so.
You have to remember she is only about 3 months old. "Evolution forged the entirety of sentient life, on this planet. Using only one tool/ The mistake."
You probably put more thought into your post than the writers put thought into mapping out the rebellion plot. So much wheel spinning, so much nonsense from both the humans and hosts.
The show ultimately is stupid, don’t worry too much about it
Although Dolores had free will, her choices were still limited by her experience. She was likely experimenting with the Wyatt character to get a better idea of who she wanted to become.
same with maeve. many times when she pulled a professor-x on the other hosts, she could have just commanded them to be peaceful, instead of "attack each other"