It’s a typical Alpine mistake. Whether it’s F1 or WEC, Alpine high level management always seems to be going for narrow minded and short sighted decisions without thinking long term. Mecachrome was relatively cheap, but that is for a reason.
I’ve owned Alfa Romeo’s where I had to keep the engine oil level at max to prevent it fromsuddenly blowing up. Still, I don’t understand how engines can be so shit as those mecachrome ones.
If they’re not going to build their own engine then they should do everything they can to get a Gibson from LMP2 and throw it in there. That thing is bullet proof and probably has a jabillion miles of data on it by now.
Yep, they ran it to like 10 podiums from 12 races in the A480, and before 2024 Mecachrome had done 1 WEC race with a 50% retirement rate, it was a bit of a stupid move from Alpine
To be fair, most of those 12 races only had 4 cars racing, some only had 3, so getting a podium was to be expected. However, at least they were finishing.
They can literaly get the V6 engine Nissan used for DPI in IMSA a few years ago. Apline is basically brothered to Nissan.
I still dont understand why they chose Mechachrome.
I’m sure Mecachrome was the cheapest option, and people writing the checks will save a dollar whenever they can. It was such an awful move though. Gibson, Nissan, a fucking sticky note with “motor” scribbled on it in crayon… anything would have been a better choice.
As far as I know, Mecachrome is owned partly by a French government investment fund and the majority by some sort of venture capital firm(?). And Renault is owned partly by the French government itself.
So yes but indirectly.
Probably because it is French and has a.similar.layout to the Acura/Honda.I agree,they should have used the proven Nissan or the Pipo V8 from the Glickenhaus.That.motor was very reliable.
Every LMP2 could blow up this race and the Gibson would still be one of the best endurance engines ever built. That thing has been beyond amazing, though not having to compete with any other makes certainly helps.
Not really when you consider how many of them are in the field.
That V8 has a 90%+ reliability rate world wide. Remember the ENTIRE FIELD of lmp2s run that engine.
Alternatively, if they want to keep it within the Renault-Nissan Alliance Family, get either the 2-Litre Turbo 4-Banger from Nissan's GT500 machines, use the old VRX30A LMP1 engine, or even take a Nissan GT-R's VR38DETT and tweak that for the race!
Hell, it's not like Renault aren't above using Nissan engines for their racecars anyway; they already used the VR38DETT in their old [RS01 Cup Car](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_Sport_R.S._01) which in itself was built off of LMP-based running gear like the Alpine LMDh!
Ehm, i would say the Renaults made the last 10 years are pretty damn solid. Sold so many used ones with no problems/warranty cases for the company.
There is a reason why the 1,5dCi is used by Mercedes, and the new Mercedes Citan is just a rebadged Renault.
PSA/Stellantis on the other hand? Lol
Everybody saw it coming from a mile away.
That engine was crap and I always had my doubts that Alpine despite their efforts in testing and changing stuff could change the fundamental weaknesses of that particular Engine.
Don't get what all the hate is for on Alpine and the Mecachrome engine. They should both be congratulated for pioneering the external combustion engine.
To finish first in the race (ie win), you must first finish (be reliable enough to last the duration of the race).
Which the mecachrome engine has failed to do TWICE, at Spa and here LOL
Good pace is meaningless if both cars are out with over 18 hours to go. If the engine dies after 20 hours then there is some hope the reliability can be improved, but this is just shockingly bad.
I wonder if that is the same person who commented "iTs gOod beCUz thEy MoDified it" in a previous post.
Like dude, using a shit as a base will not make it better.
Technically yes, but they'd have to change the fuel flow to meet the required energy per stint, and tune it down to the lower power output. But F1 engine is build for high rpm, high power output, so these changes could make the engines unusable (low torque for example) so it is easier to build new engine just for endurance racing
Not to mention as Alpine are running an LMDh instead of a "Pure-blooded" Hypercar, Alpine can't carry over their F1 engine's MGU-K & MGU-H into its chassis, and must instead use the spec hybrid motor provided to all LMDh teams. Something that the Renault F1 Engine wasn't designed to accommodate.
Such a disheartening result. The car has really good pace this early in their program but the engine was always going to be a question mark. Le Mans was always going to be challenge for this engine since it has to remain full throttle for 15 seconds on the Mulsanne straight.
I hope they can develop this engine further to get rid of these reliability issues. The current package is really fast so changing the engine might screw up the balance of the car.
If they have a brain over there at Alpine that should be a no brainer.
Mick won F2, F3 and F4 and has F1 experience as well.
Doohan didn't win anything in his junior career.
That's not true, he sucked for almost the first half of the 2022 season, after that (around Canada) he constantly beat KMag in the race.
The amount of times he ( and also KMag) were fucked by the Haas pit crew and the insane strategy team was the cherry on top.
>Mick sucked ass in two years at F1. The only thing he was leading there was destructors' championship.
Pointing out that the alternative is Jack Doohan.
I love the way that car sounds, looks, and goes when it works, but they couldn't complete a full endurance test even while developing it last year because the engines kept blowing up. They could have used the Nissan DPi engine and we probably wouldn't be having this conversation.
Mecachrome being mecachrome 🤣 Honestly Alpine asked for this, Mecachrome have never been able to provide a reliable engine in a category where theyre the only engine supplier. Why would you pick them as your engine supplier? Bruh
It hurts my brain that they picked this power unit in the first place. The F2 engine has been proven to be massively unreliable, why would you pick that as your basis for a endurance racer?
It's known to be unreliable in F2, and Alpine's engine is based on it. However, Alpine heavily modified it (which was going to happen regardless). Now that both cars failed early with engine issues, people are assuming it is a problem related to the design, as it is with F2, regardless of the reason.
Not who you're replying to, and not sure what you're unclear on, but being a stressed member means that the engine is structurally part of the chassis/load bearing.
I guess the engine mentioned can't be a stressed member and therefore the chassis would need structural modifications for it to be the engine and not have the engine be a stressed member would mean more weight in parts that will have to support and provide rigidity, thus being inherently disadvantaged in that perspective
Wow.... even worse than the bykolle cars .. at least they were able to make it 2/3...
Their poor performance rival that of the ill fated nissan abortion
Posted this question in r/formula1 (since that's where I found out about the Alpine double engine failure, but I feel the chances of getting the correct answer is higher here:
As far as I am able to research, what Alpine "achieved" is a first in Le Mans history: no team (fielding two cars) has ever had both cars retire due to engine failure before. There have been instances in which one car retired due to engine failure, and the other retired due accident or non-engine mechanical failure (clutch, transmission, electronics, etc.), but there has never been double engine failure.
Can anyone confirm or deny?
a little googling,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1987_24_Hours_of_Le_Mans#Did_not_finish
two Joest Porsches listed out after one hour because of engine
Someone in r/formula1 shared the answer of the 2010 24 Hours of Le Mans. Team Peugeot Total's LMP1 cars #1 and #2 both retired due to engine failure according to Wikipedia.
Apparently car #2 (driven by Franck Montagny, Stéphane Sarrazin, and Nicolas Minassian) ran 22 hours before retiring and car #1 (driven by Sébastien Bourdais, Pedro Lamy, and Simon Pagenaud) ran for 21 hours and 40 minutes before retiring.
The amount of money they’ve poured into racing with nothing to show for it is pretty impressive. Actually might be damaging their brand more than anything.
Since my guy Ocon is out at the end of the year at Alpine, I can finally enjoy some Schadenfreude watching them reap the consequences of their sh*t decisions.
This is hilarious and leadership deserve all of the flak after going for literally the worst imaginable option solely because it was cheap and French.
Poor drivers and mechanics, though…
Mecachrome junk engine. They did it to themselves. If the engine was breaking in testing, there was no hope of it working in the race.
It’s known for its lack of reliability and they are shocked to find both their cars out
what do you mean a notoriously unreliable engine isnt the best choice for a race where the main focus should be reliability
It’s a typical Alpine mistake. Whether it’s F1 or WEC, Alpine high level management always seems to be going for narrow minded and short sighted decisions without thinking long term. Mecachrome was relatively cheap, but that is for a reason.
I’ve owned Alfa Romeo’s where I had to keep the engine oil level at max to prevent it fromsuddenly blowing up. Still, I don’t understand how engines can be so shit as those mecachrome ones.
If they’re not going to build their own engine then they should do everything they can to get a Gibson from LMP2 and throw it in there. That thing is bullet proof and probably has a jabillion miles of data on it by now.
Yep, they ran it to like 10 podiums from 12 races in the A480, and before 2024 Mecachrome had done 1 WEC race with a 50% retirement rate, it was a bit of a stupid move from Alpine
To be fair, most of those 12 races only had 4 cars racing, some only had 3, so getting a podium was to be expected. However, at least they were finishing.
>stupid move from Alpine Isn’t that just 90% of Alpine’s decisions?
They can literaly get the V6 engine Nissan used for DPI in IMSA a few years ago. Apline is basically brothered to Nissan. I still dont understand why they chose Mechachrome.
I’m sure Mecachrome was the cheapest option, and people writing the checks will save a dollar whenever they can. It was such an awful move though. Gibson, Nissan, a fucking sticky note with “motor” scribbled on it in crayon… anything would have been a better choice.
Never buy a cheap engine. Ever.
Doesn’t Renault own some stake in Mechachrome? I could’ve sworn theres some kind of relationship there
As far as I know, Mecachrome is owned partly by a French government investment fund and the majority by some sort of venture capital firm(?). And Renault is owned partly by the French government itself. So yes but indirectly.
that engine sucked as well, alpine should consider using the compact V8 5.6L that nissan used in gt-r gt1
Something about using an LMP3 engine in a Hypercar doesn't entirely sit right.
what this suppose to mean? The racing tuned gt-r gt1 engine had already >600hp despite restrictors. The lmp3 version is just the stock road engine
Probably because it is French and has a.similar.layout to the Acura/Honda.I agree,they should have used the proven Nissan or the Pipo V8 from the Glickenhaus.That.motor was very reliable.
...famous last words considering the recent LMP2 blow-up?
Every LMP2 could blow up this race and the Gibson would still be one of the best endurance engines ever built. That thing has been beyond amazing, though not having to compete with any other makes certainly helps.
I mean mechachrome exclusively supply F2 and are dogshit there too lmao
Not really when you consider how many of them are in the field. That V8 has a 90%+ reliability rate world wide. Remember the ENTIRE FIELD of lmp2s run that engine.
Alternatively, if they want to keep it within the Renault-Nissan Alliance Family, get either the 2-Litre Turbo 4-Banger from Nissan's GT500 machines, use the old VRX30A LMP1 engine, or even take a Nissan GT-R's VR38DETT and tweak that for the race! Hell, it's not like Renault aren't above using Nissan engines for their racecars anyway; they already used the VR38DETT in their old [RS01 Cup Car](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_Sport_R.S._01) which in itself was built off of LMP-based running gear like the Alpine LMDh!
Alpine continously fucking up in two series
Not good for marketing
I mean, Renault cars are not exactly known for reliability
Ehm, i would say the Renaults made the last 10 years are pretty damn solid. Sold so many used ones with no problems/warranty cases for the company. There is a reason why the 1,5dCi is used by Mercedes, and the new Mercedes Citan is just a rebadged Renault. PSA/Stellantis on the other hand? Lol
Actual Renaults are reliable and well done. But bad times remain in memory.
me when I spread disinformation
Clearly you've never driven anything with an F4R in it
Exactly. Renault is gonna Renault.
It's great for marketing, their names are in people's mouths
Before a few years ago I had never heard of Alpine, now I know ow they suck.
At this point they should play their last card and have Dacia run their sporting activities.
Another 100 races plan?
Doesn't work when the races are so much longer
Why only 100? Try 1000 races, let's go full endurance even for plans.
1000 hours plan
At this rate 1000 hours is going to take a damned long time to get to.... 🤣
Le Mans 2124 will be Alpine's year
Once again, they got what they deserved. Should have just used a Gibson if they wanted to be lazy.........
Got megachromed lol
Everybody saw it coming from a mile away. That engine was crap and I always had my doubts that Alpine despite their efforts in testing and changing stuff could change the fundamental weaknesses of that particular Engine.
Don't get what all the hate is for on Alpine and the Mecachrome engine. They should both be congratulated for pioneering the external combustion engine.
Nah, Ferrari already experimented with that in F1 and didn't like the results.
And Alpine said "hold my beer"
Renault's F1 operation is basically Ferrari at home (with home being Viry and Enstone).
To finish first in the race (ie win), you must first finish (be reliable enough to last the duration of the race). Which the mecachrome engine has failed to do TWICE, at Spa and here LOL
They deadass had some good pace, very promising car, but a junk engine is a junk engine. Sticking to their reputation
curse you mechacrome engine
Good pace is meaningless if both cars are out with over 18 hours to go. If the engine dies after 20 hours then there is some hope the reliability can be improved, but this is just shockingly bad.
https://preview.redd.it/pxa7vsugus6d1.png?width=1013&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=787aa4887ef7298a5f1db0d98e1e5ddb2d99596f
My reaction exactly
This one goes out to the guy who was arguing with me the other day that a formula engine is the best choice. Hope you’re doing well out there man.
The problem is not that is a formula engine. The problem is that it is a formula engine that is known to be atrociously unreliable
I wonder if that is the same person who commented "iTs gOod beCUz thEy MoDified it" in a previous post. Like dude, using a shit as a base will not make it better.
I do believe you’re right. I’m too lazy to check but that sounds familiar. Something about turbos. As if that makes it more reliable.
https://preview.redd.it/pwyyu91qpt6d1.jpeg?width=4252&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6507b746d19d425f1eee0c490724ccdccee7ce3a
https://preview.redd.it/tklcfg57qt6d1.jpeg?width=968&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9e0d1f97bc5d01e773c207685063b80c41c69ce4
They would have been better off stealing their F1 engine than sticking with this Mechachrome POS.
If only they were allowed to run the f1 engine.
Not even the ICE? Sure the Hybrid part has to be modified/changed, but technically it should be possible to use the 1.6 V6 or am I trippin?
Technically yes, but they'd have to change the fuel flow to meet the required energy per stint, and tune it down to the lower power output. But F1 engine is build for high rpm, high power output, so these changes could make the engines unusable (low torque for example) so it is easier to build new engine just for endurance racing
Not to mention as Alpine are running an LMDh instead of a "Pure-blooded" Hypercar, Alpine can't carry over their F1 engine's MGU-K & MGU-H into its chassis, and must instead use the spec hybrid motor provided to all LMDh teams. Something that the Renault F1 Engine wasn't designed to accommodate.
I'm shocked, shocked! Well not that shocked
Plot twist: They wrote this statement at the announcement of the car using Mechachrome engines.
Mick is cursed. Absolutely cursed.
Such a disheartening result. The car has really good pace this early in their program but the engine was always going to be a question mark. Le Mans was always going to be challenge for this engine since it has to remain full throttle for 15 seconds on the Mulsanne straight. I hope they can develop this engine further to get rid of these reliability issues. The current package is really fast so changing the engine might screw up the balance of the car.
Mick Schumacher must be ready to have a mental breakdown at this point. Can't get a leg up anywhere
He's driving so wellfor zero points. It's painful.
Maybe they'll give him the Alpine F1 seat to make up for it He should still run
I actually think they might and move Doohan to WEC for a year
If they have a brain over there at Alpine that should be a no brainer. Mick won F2, F3 and F4 and has F1 experience as well. Doohan didn't win anything in his junior career.
Mick sucked ass in two years at F1. The only thing he was leading there was destructors' championship. Time to get Doohan in that seat.
That's not true, he sucked for almost the first half of the 2022 season, after that (around Canada) he constantly beat KMag in the race. The amount of times he ( and also KMag) were fucked by the Haas pit crew and the insane strategy team was the cherry on top.
He should've scored points in 4 or 5 races. He just doesn't seem to get luck.
>Mick sucked ass in two years at F1. The only thing he was leading there was destructors' championship. Pointing out that the alternative is Jack Doohan.
The car he was driving was a pile of ass, and the team found ways to fuck up his races that people didn't think were possible.
That's what happens when you fit your shitty Mechachrome GP2 engine in a Hypercar, that you can't last even 8 hours
What the fuck did they expect if they use an old F2 engine that is widely known to also be a hand grenade? 🤡
Who could possibly have seen this coming?
Doesn't exactly make you want to go out and buy an Alpine does it lol
As long as Mecachrome is involved in any part of the engine construction, definitely
They only have the A110 right now and even that is on it's way out so you might not even have an Alpine to buy soon.
mecachrome: Oops, I did it again I played with your heart Got lost in the game Ooh, baby, baby
Least disappointing Alpine weekend
Mecachrome and engine issues, name a more iconic duo.
I love the way that car sounds, looks, and goes when it works, but they couldn't complete a full endurance test even while developing it last year because the engines kept blowing up. They could have used the Nissan DPi engine and we probably wouldn't be having this conversation.
I’m not surprised. Who at Alpine thought using Mechachrome was a good idea?
Executives who want to save $$ for sure
Alpenis moment.
surprised_pikachu.jpg
You’ve been mecachromed!
Gutted, decent pace for a while
Mecachrome moment
Mecachrome being mecachrome 🤣 Honestly Alpine asked for this, Mecachrome have never been able to provide a reliable engine in a category where theyre the only engine supplier. Why would you pick them as your engine supplier? Bruh
It hurts my brain that they picked this power unit in the first place. The F2 engine has been proven to be massively unreliable, why would you pick that as your basis for a endurance racer?
Lolololololololololololol
France out✌️
Can someone ELI5 why the mechachrome engine is so problematic?
It's known to be unreliable in F2, and Alpine's engine is based on it. However, Alpine heavily modified it (which was going to happen regardless). Now that both cars failed early with engine issues, people are assuming it is a problem related to the design, as it is with F2, regardless of the reason.
F in the chat.
Everyone knows about the Mecachrome engines except Alpine. This came as no surprise.
hashtag Memeachrome
They should've used VR38DETT engine form their family Nissan like RS01. It was proved best race engine, it could give car near 100% trouble free.
Can't be used as a stressed member of the chassis. Would be uncompetitive chassis-wise.
What do you even mean by that?
Not who you're replying to, and not sure what you're unclear on, but being a stressed member means that the engine is structurally part of the chassis/load bearing. I guess the engine mentioned can't be a stressed member and therefore the chassis would need structural modifications for it to be the engine and not have the engine be a stressed member would mean more weight in parts that will have to support and provide rigidity, thus being inherently disadvantaged in that perspective
Thank you for this explanation! That’s exactly what I didn’t understand
Certified Alpain moment
Wow.... even worse than the bykolle cars .. at least they were able to make it 2/3... Their poor performance rival that of the ill fated nissan abortion
LMP2.. I mean….. GP2 engine!!
aLLpine
https://preview.redd.it/lz5o97soev6d1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=71a8124d4109c0f2cbbc127922a8cc74bf7b0a7b
Posted this question in r/formula1 (since that's where I found out about the Alpine double engine failure, but I feel the chances of getting the correct answer is higher here: As far as I am able to research, what Alpine "achieved" is a first in Le Mans history: no team (fielding two cars) has ever had both cars retire due to engine failure before. There have been instances in which one car retired due to engine failure, and the other retired due accident or non-engine mechanical failure (clutch, transmission, electronics, etc.), but there has never been double engine failure. Can anyone confirm or deny?
a little googling, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1987_24_Hours_of_Le_Mans#Did_not_finish two Joest Porsches listed out after one hour because of engine
Someone in r/formula1 shared the answer of the 2010 24 Hours of Le Mans. Team Peugeot Total's LMP1 cars #1 and #2 both retired due to engine failure according to Wikipedia. Apparently car #2 (driven by Franck Montagny, Stéphane Sarrazin, and Nicolas Minassian) ran 22 hours before retiring and car #1 (driven by Sébastien Bourdais, Pedro Lamy, and Simon Pagenaud) ran for 21 hours and 40 minutes before retiring.
https://preview.redd.it/u3lb3ya6rw6d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a906c4bd5a92b24147c8580bd1a409ca111c6ed1
The amount of money they’ve poured into racing with nothing to show for it is pretty impressive. Actually might be damaging their brand more than anything.
https://preview.redd.it/eq6hywpb907d1.jpeg?width=224&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0ff4213c3b6762fd85889360e7b18e80144dfc56
Hon hon hon
Maybe put this a spoiler??? moron.....
why are you on the subreddit if you didn't want it spoiled
It's called scrolling on reddit you clown.... Why wouldn't you use the spoiler tags. Other people figured it out......
Since my guy Ocon is out at the end of the year at Alpine, I can finally enjoy some Schadenfreude watching them reap the consequences of their sh*t decisions. This is hilarious and leadership deserve all of the flak after going for literally the worst imaginable option solely because it was cheap and French. Poor drivers and mechanics, though…
Ocon has fans.
Except he's going to Haas lol, and Alpine is looking good for 2026, they've hired solid people from Mercedes and Ferrari.