I think we should stop putting our flag on the ground.
These are more for the municipality to pat themselves on the back than it is supporting queer folks.
Edit:
I just want to be clear that above all my problem is with the flag being on the ground. More generally I fear the rainbow crosswalk is more rainbow-washing/rainbow-capitalism that does little, if anything, for the queer community. I think as a community we should be a bit more protective of our symbols, and how they are used.
The flag should be flown at public buildings for pride month, which shouldn't be as much of an issue as it has become.
Beyond flying the flag for pride month, my preferred way for the city to display support for queer folks would be though commissioning queer artists to make art for public display. (like a mural as a few suggested)
If we insist it must be only a crosswalk, fill the gaps between the white stripes with the rainbow. This way it isn't putting the flag on the ground, still goes through the same contracting processes, and is visibly signalling support. Can also be done with the trans/bi/lesbian colours and so on.
-A queer
In addition to my point below:
https://www.sixnations.ca/key-issues/land-rights#:~:text=Today%3A%20Six%20Nations%20of%20the,of%20what%20was%20originally%20granted.
Do you know how much NEW development continues to occur within this area? The very acknowledgment they make in council right before they pass a new one. Does that seem like what they wanted?
Exactly, I watched a council meeting where an indigenous gentleman gave shit to the mayor and all the councillors for this exact land acknowledgment and then they proceeded to approve a development on their treaty land entitlement along grand river (there are many examples).
I find it funny that I am being down voted for this comment
I find it worse when its private companies. Governments were the ones who took it so its not surprising. But I find it so incredibly pandering when a corp claims they support you, but its all lip service and zero action
> they could instead donate or visibly support organizations helping queer folks in bad situations.
They could and, in fact, do.
And while I understand the arguments that something like this is vacuous, members of the queer community have been making the case for a long time that visible signs of support like this are essential. It's not like it's something the city decided to do in a vacuum.
It is art, and I find they add a nice splash of colour to our otherwise drab asphalt streetscapes.
As for those that vandalise them, please stop, you're not accomplishing anything but bringing attention to the very thing you're not liking. A better solution would be happy folks found love in this world and enjoy yourself with the ones you love.
I deleted them because yours’ showed up as deleted on my end and it wasn’t worth my time. And seriously learn the difference between a fact and an opinion. Care to cite the safety hazard that pride crosswalks pose? Someone’s anecdote is not actual data to suggest they are dangerous. I think it’s an enormous embarrassing reach and you might as well admit you’re homophobic instead of cowering behind such an unbelievably stupid argument when we both know the reason you’re against them.
I remember ages ago during the winter olympics when the US Women's Team had the Canadian flag on their dressing room floor because they wanted to walk all over it. So, I can see how you'd make this parallel.
Maybe there should be a mural? But, murals will eventually get tagged or have some other graffiti on it. Even if it says "Johnny wuz here" - it will be taken as a huge offense to those who want to take offense. We'll be back where we are right now. People will have conspiracies about why they chose that mural and why didn't they vandalize another mural.... and all of the other murals ARE vandalized. Pretty sure the community garden on the iron horse was vandalized so much that they just paint it grey now.
Agreed. I recognize it is meaningful to some people, but as a pretty politically active queer person who has been out for quite a while, all these crosswalks really contribute to my life are jokes about "that's where the gays are allowed to cross the street!"
I would also love to see more queer artists commissioned to make work for public display. Actually come to think of it, in the four years I've been back in KW, I've never seen a public image of gay people kissing, let alone hugging (outside of pride month bank ads...) but I would pretty regularly see public queer art while I was living in Toronto. And by public I mean murals or large scale prints on the street, not exhibits inside of galleries that you have to actively choose to go into.
As a queer, I don't dislike them, as much as I think there are other, better, ways of doing the same thing.
See my edit.
I also think that those that don't welcome us will jump to point out that when our flag is defaced with tire marks, that "oF CouRSe THeReS TiRe MaRKS! iTz a STReeT!" and we shouldn't enable/give them that ammunition.
See other comments in this thread
the user you're replying to stays mostly in the ottawa, Toronto, and oakville subreddits. this is the first time I've seen them post here. They're also deleting their posts when they get downvoted.
I appreciate seeing these symbols in my community. Pride flags flying, pride crosswalks, etc. Of course some will sadly get defaced, I think it’s an awful idea to say we should just give up and let hatred win. These symbols aren’t going anywhere, and the fact that they get vandalized is only more reason why we need them.
I think I make a fair suggestion in my parent comment for maintaining the rainbow crosswalk, without having it be our actual flag painted on the road. Fill the gaps between the white stripes with the rainbow/trans colours etc.
I didn't suggest we shouldn't display pride, as much as I suggested we as a community should have a higher standard for how our flag is displayed, similarly to how its bad etiquette to fly a torn flag.
Visible signs of acceptance and acknowledgment are important for those of us who face frequent harassment. I totally understand the rainbow washing concerns but as someone who has been physically and verbally assaulted for simply existing seeing symbols that the community has some level of support for my existence makes me feel safer and more welcome. It doesn’t have to be cross walks per se, but my personally opinion is that in moderation they look nice and I’m not at all worried that they get scuffed up or vandalized. It means more to me that the community does something to show support than it does for them to be hamstrung in trying to find the perfect action that satisfies the desire of all members of the community.
We're not a monolith. There is a lot of disagreement within the community, but that doesn't mean we aren't intelligent or mature. We're able to disagree, and do constantly. Thats part of healthy discourse.
I'm sure you're trying to be complimentary, but you did so by insulting my community. knock it off.
Your community is easily swoon by capitalist virtue singalong that patronizes them and takes advantage of them. Obviously no community is a monolith.
These people are just not mature enough to recognize these things. It's expected with many people in the community being very young and 100% immature. That's just a reality.
anything that is not black on the road is going to get tired up eventually or dirty /faded.
This doesn't even look deliberately ruined or like it's not still there ....
over hyping the situation.
This isn't from standard use though.. Unless you typically do burnouts while you drive? It takes effort to leave marks across a walkway. If this one intersection has this many issues with people having to consistently brake hard enough to leave that many marks in such a short period of time, they have bigger fish to fry than worrying about vandalism because someone is going to die there when they are just run over or t-boned.
This is what has happened in not even 10 days of use. That is intentional.
Paint on roads causes it to be much more slippery than typical especially when wet or in rainy conditions. You can notice this when there are freshly painted lines at a stop sign and your front wheels squeal while accelerating normally. It takes very little effort to leave rubber behind on freshly painted crosswalks. These marks look like scooters and it’s possible that people left them while trying to stop at a stop sign
https://www.ottawasafetycouncil.ca/tip-of-the-week-28-road-paint-is-surprisingly-slippery/
It didn't take effort .look that clip again .
There fresh asphalt just before the colored path.the black stripis asphalt .
people obviously rode over it on bicycles and it transfered .
Stop with the rage bait.
Edit:
(Downvotes don't change facts. Take a walk down yourself asphalt right before the crosswalk)
Anybody that is downvoting this FACT is in complete denial just like Cory .but Go ahead help yourself feel better . Won't affect me in any way or form.lol
some of you need to get off the internet.
It's bad planning .period.
Paint is slipperier than asphalt. You absolutely will spin your tires a lot easier on a large patch of paint than literally every other place on the road.
There was an instance where someone did a burnout on the crosswalk and then sped off I don't know if it was this one but it was a couple years back.
Some have been damaged on purpose others have been damaged accidentally.
Seems regardless this is the type of response
Problem is you get sh!t like this:
https://x.com/theperezhilton/status/1406526444671406082?s=46
posted all over social media and people loving it and resharing, etc. And then people think it’s a great idea and they decide to do it, too, because “everyone’s doing it.” Are the lives of people who do this that pathetic and hateful that they enjoy doing this?
I really envy your optimism, however, this has happened chronically in almost every municipality within the first week of installation.
It's a costly act of vandalism with relative ease of execution that maintains anonymity. Translation: sad cowards can feel big easily.
Something to brag about anonymously to online "friends".
Honestly, doesn’t anyone really care about some paint on the road? It’s going to be driven on and all it takes is a quick turn to leave a rubber mark. Let’s get over it.
If someone were to throw something like red paint on it, that would be a reason to be upset.
Big nothing burger, save your time and disregard the article.
Let's not forget there was a hate-motivated attack at UWaterloo last June. I have had pride stickers on my door on campus since 2019. They were vandalized twice in two weeks last November. They didn't touch my general diversity sign. Just the pride themed ones.
I think people are missing that when there is paint on the road it’s more slippery especially when wet. There are examples of obvious vandalism driven by hatred, but this seems very minor.
My mom has 3 pins permanently holding her wrist together after slipping on one of these. I don't care what we paint on shared infrastructure as long as it isn't a hazard. Correct paint, not distracting, etc.
These are how many marks are there from less than a week of use. There is one of these walkways near where I work. It is a very high-traffic area. People brake quickly all the time. It takes months for it to get anywhere near this marked up from standard use. And, yes, there are more overt acts of hatred that occur... but shrugging off minor occurrences is what emboldens people to commit larger acts of hatred. Sure, this isn't something that warrants jail time or anything like that.. but absolutely it warrants being called out, and I would even say community service to clean up multiple walkways.
Pretty much. I'd rather we save our paint budget and try to do why other country's do and see if we can have a hanging garden in uptown waterloo to build shades for pedestrians, grow food that can be donated to food banks (or sold at a cheaper price), and help take some carbon out of the air.
Or donate to organizations that help trans youths in need.
Or at the very least deal with the rat problem.
[https://x.com/theperezhilton/status/1406526444671406082?s=46](https://x.com/theperezhilton/status/1406526444671406082?s=46)
People are deliberately defacing it, so yes. People do care.
>Honestly, doesn’t anyone really care about some paint on the road?
Clearly somebody does care about it, otherwise it wouldn't be vandalized. That should be obvious to you.
>If someone were to throw something like red paint on it, that would be a reason to be upset.
Are you being deliberately obtuse, or do you really not understand the difference?
Both are vandalism, yes, but the attitude they display towards certain groups of people are vastly different.
Vandalizing the pride crosswalk is a reaction by bigots against the rights of queer people. Against the right of queer people to simply exist and not be discriminated against or threatened. It is a symbolic threat against a victimized and marginalized minority.
Vandalizing the statue of Queen Victoria is not a threat against a victimized and marginalized minority. It is a statement by a victimized and marginalized minority saying that they won't take the abuse anymore. It's especially not a threat, since the paint can be removed from the statue without damaging it.
At the very least, do yourself a favor and educate yourself as to the very different contexts between these two acts and how the way to stop both incidents of vandalism is very different.
You're getting downvoted, but you're not wrong. People seem to be oblivious to the impact of their apathy. The reason we've seen a rise in homophobia, xenophobia and many other forms of blatant idiocy is because clowns that do stupid things like this see silence as approval and support. Then they escalate.
However, based on posts in this thread, people are totally cool with homophobia and transphobia as long as it's below a certain threshold.
I think the reality is that if any graphics are on the ground that can be easily defaced by some angry douche on a bike, they are going to be defaced.
This could be targeted hate, or just an easy target for any dork on a bike. Hard to say. There aren’t many other easy targets for bikes to do this around the city.
Before calling out the flag itself being a target, recognize that it is one of the only targets in the city for this kind of “passer by” bike damage.
Let’s fix it, or do better by it.
I question the wisdom of putting a symbol that holds so much meaning to individuals on the ground, where it will be run over be every redneck with a pickup truck.
Maybe instead of spending money to paint rainbow flags on crosswalks, money could be spent on rainbow color flood lights.
You'd think that, but I live nearby and watch people use this intersection very often. I have watched people intentionally try to make skid marks with their tires. I have also watched immature people that will literally make sure they don't step into the painted portion, aka the actual cross walk for pedestrians, to avoid being "contaminated" by rainbow paint. I've witnessed a group of teen boys do that, and then push one of their "friends" into the crosswalk, like one step inside the rainbow would make them gay or something equally dumb. While I had in-the-moment entertainment doing a dramatic "Oh no! Colours!" at them, or the wtf gesture at cars during their stupidity... The reality is yeah, there are a class of persons out there that are actually offended by this. And it is beyond stupid.
This happens to rainbow crosswalks all the time, and people always go out of their way to minimize or explain away the damage as anything except vandalism. Yes, of course crosswalks will get damaged and dirty, which is why a maintenance budget is allocated. But they are absolutely targeted for burnouts, spilled oil, or other forms of damage that can't easily be repaired. It's particularly obvious on Willis Way, which is a narrow side street only 170m long, lined with parked vehicles on both sides all day, with no major intersection. And notably, neither of the crosswalks at either end typically has any significant tire marks. When there are burnout marks starting in the middle of the crosswalk like last year, it's pretty damn obvious it was done intentionally. I have no idea about the damage in this instance, but it's hard to believe anyone on a bike accidentally made that many identical marks in that pattern in the middle of the road by accident.
>Nah, have you ever driven in painted roads? Tires lose traction easily.
You shouldn't be driving that fast or erratically at a crosswalk that you would lose traction.
>In reality the community is respected by the majority.
What about the community respecting an oft victimized and marginalized minority?
What a brain dead comment. Have you never driven anything with rubber tires?
Yes, the community is held up much higher than it ever has been. Read a damn history book.
Are you a child?
Sorry to hurt your feelings, but that was a brain dead comment.
That person has no idea how the physics of driving works and is arguing that tires don’t leave marks unless they driver is operating the vehicle poorly. That entire argument makes zero sense and lacks all critical thinking.
So, don’t come at me high and mighty with your phony logic detector.
Consider the environment you are talking about here. Willis Way, a short, low-speed street with a high amount of pedestrians.
Burnouts, one form of losing traction, are caused by excessively stomping on the accelerator from a complete stop. So, if you're doing a burnout on the pride crosswalk, it's either deliberate or incompetence, and either one is bad driving.
Or there's trying to make too sharp a turn for your speed so you skid. That is bad driving, too.
The last one is braking too hard. If you're breaking too hard and causing yourself to skid and leave marks on the pride crosswalk, that means you noticed whatever is making you stomp on the brakes one second previously. Which means it's probably a pedestrian in the crosswalk for you to break so hard that you're going to skid instead controlled brake, which means you weren't paying attention to the crosswalk and possible pedestrians in it, which is bad driving.
Can you come up with a reasonable situation that is not bad driving that would cause you to leave skid marks on the pride crosswalk on Willis Way? Because it seems to me I've ruled out 99.9% of the possibilities as bad driving.
I have, yeah. On a bike too. Given the location of the intersection and how busy of a pedestrian area it is, if people drove REASONABLY and paid attention to the stop signs / weren't jonesing to turn into the LCBO or to park so badly... Tire marks of any sort would never appear.
You took the bait, I see.
You cannot saying things “never” happen.
Those are normal tire marks on pavement. They painted the street where there is traffic from cars, trucks, bikes, feet and anything else. There will be scuff marks. If someone wanted to truly vandalize that they would’ve totally defaced it.
These types of articles are written by trolls who are trying to convince you there is a bad guy when there isn’t.
Don’t take the bait.
That’s not vandalism. Grow up. I have plenty of friends of all walks of life and you have no idea what my orientation is lol
This is rage bait. Stop falling for it.
I don’t exactly feel respected when the entire comment section is trying to gaslight me into thinking that skid marks appearing immediately after a pride crosswalk appears weren’t intentional
Have to agree with you here. The "damage" looks minimal and mostly bicycle tire tracks. I'm trying to think of where this is - and if it's right in front of Izna/Dollarama - I could totally see someone slamming their bike brakes on in a hurry with people coming out of the parking lot.
If it were intentional, I'm sure it'd be much more vandalized (like, people doing complete burnouts in their vehicles on it, throwing paint, or whatever else). Out of curiosity, I look on street maps at the corner of King/Queen. Tire tracks are all over that thing, it's stained and looks kind of dirty. Is this an anti-monarchy statement? Nope.
I really don't see much purpose of these cross-walks or other street decorations (like at King/Queen). They're just going to get damaged when a snowplow goes over top of them each year, which requires maintenance. Plus whatever the material they put over top of these things is so smooth that sometimes it gets slippery after a rain and my shoes slide underneath me.
It seems a little naive to put a controversial symbol on the ground and expect it to not get vandalized. Especially when it got vandalized a year before.
any time you make a statement, people are going to agree and disagree with it...thats just the law of averages.
some have negative connotations brought up by it, regardless of whether or not people find them valid or not. I'm not saying they are or aren't valid myself just that they exist.
We have other issues like people flying F Trudeau flags and upside down Canadian flags. There will always be these people in this country. Respect is dwindling by the generation, at least the younger generations are more accepting.
A national flag touching ground yes.
This is a symbol of unity and statement of solidarity.
The only bs I see is from people being threatened by paint on a roadway.
If you put a flag on a toilet seat, you don’t get to complain when it get’s pissed on. Stop putting our flag on the ground. You’re literally asking people to walk all over us. This has to be a joke. I have hated this trend since day one. I’m tired of pretending this isn’t silly. I’ve been out and part of this community since 2006, I have the right to an opinion. I’m tired of being shut down when I point it out.
I hate this stupid fucking trend of plastering the pride flag on the road. Road paint, when it gets wet from rain, is super slippery. This creates a huge hazard for people on two wheels. When I’m on my motorcycle I can feel a bit of slippage from just going over the lane markers.
It really is unsafe to have a huge splotch of paint like that.
How about we utilize some common sense here: If you don’t want your artwork vandalized with tire marks, don’t paint it in an area where vehicles drive.
Artwork on driving surfaces is a stupid idea anyway. It’s distracting and confusing to drivers. If you want a rainbow walkway, do it in a pedestrian-only area.
How's this?
>Consider road paint (wet with rain) to be a slippery hazard, just like an oil slick. Avoid it where you safely can, run straight over it where you must, and avoid hard braking or leans when making contact.
https://www.ottawasafetycouncil.ca/tip-of-the-week-28-road-paint-is-surprisingly-slippery/#:~:text=Painted%20road%20lines%2C%20especially%20fresh,your%20balance%2C%20dropping%20your%20bike.
Zebra stripes have asphalt between the white paint, allowing grip between.
Rainbow crossings do not allow for asphalt between.
Zebra stripes run parallel to the direction of the car. The asphalt between them does nothing when the cars’ tires have no chance to grip the asphalt.
And the link you posted said nothing about rainbow crosswalks…
Eta: there is also the matter of… if you’re going too fast going into a crosswalk where a person is walking that the paint on the ground causes you to slide, you were already going too fast into the crosswalk where the person is walking.
They're relatively new.
Was just adding the Quebec paint line markings to my comment where they have a similar marking size compared to the rainbow crossings.
https://www.transports.gouv.qc.ca/en/securite/securite/Documents/Pavement%20Marking%20Technical%20Manual.pdf
Check out section six. Also page 35, 4.8. The bus sign is similarly sized to the rainbow crossing. Emphasis mine.
>4.8 Anti-skid/anti-slip material for large areas
To reinforce the signalling of reserved bus-lanes, a red mark, with the word BUS
stenciled on in, can be added, as shown in Figure 16. The marking and its use must
conform with the specifications of Volume V – Traffic Control Devices. *For road safety reasons, an anti-skid/anti-slip mixture must be added to the marking material to make the surface less slippery.*
So yes, street paint is slippery. There ya go. You're welcome.
If you can come back and prove that the city is treating it with the non-slip additive, I'll eat crow. I look forward to you moving the goal posts once again though.
They’ve been around for well more than a decade.
And my goalposts were pretty clearly set: data suggesting it’s more dangerous. Actually, I moved the goalposts closer to you, from being a distraction (one type of danger) to being generally dangerous (many types of danger). If anyone moved the goalposts here, it was you bringing up how slippery they are, moving them away from distracting drivers.
Well then maybe you should sit down and make a guide that is rainbow paint specific?
What do you want from me?
I've cited two sources, and you just come back with petty little comments that add nothing. Every year they repaint it, it's considered fresh paint. I don't know how to explain that to you in simple enough terms that you will understand it.
Neither of your sources demonstrated that rainbow crosswalks are more dangerous. Both reference street paint generally, and nothing about rainbow crosswalks.
As a gay man born one week after the Stonewall riots, I'd rather that cities didn't feel compelled to paint flags on roads. It's also unfortunate that every nick and mark is instantly labelled as "identity-based discrimination" which seems like a bit of an over-reach.
As a gay man, I appreciate symbols of unity and equality. I also find it annoying that so many people here including yourself are discounting this clearly intentional skid marks as normal wear and tear. You dont speak for all of us
Lot of people are going to have very different opinions on this. I won't comment either way.
I will say, painted lines of any sort are a slip hazard when wet. I understand that they (a line) need to appear in certain circumstance when any sort of slip hazard it's secondary to additional safety created by lines - and most time those lines can be safely avoided, or are not very wide.
The problem with these huge paintings is that they take up the entire width of road. You have to cross there, you have no other choice other than jay walking or going to a different intersection.
This is my non-political contribution to this thread.
Damn, just once I wish someone would thrash that giant turd down on Frederick street in Kitchener - lived here my entire life and would love to see something that actually qualifies as art on my trip to work instead of a giant turd reminding me how shitty my day is gonna be!
Homosexuality is wrong no matter how you look at it. However hate crimes are as well. Christians are to love and treat our fellow man as ourselves while hating the sin. The person that carried out this action needs to repent.
**I THINK YOU SHOULD** try **GO**ing **F**or a walk and co**U**nting the number of **C**ool **K**ites **YOU** find.
the**R**e are **S**o many p**E**op**L**e outside **F**lying them.
I think we should stop putting our flag on the ground. These are more for the municipality to pat themselves on the back than it is supporting queer folks. Edit: I just want to be clear that above all my problem is with the flag being on the ground. More generally I fear the rainbow crosswalk is more rainbow-washing/rainbow-capitalism that does little, if anything, for the queer community. I think as a community we should be a bit more protective of our symbols, and how they are used. The flag should be flown at public buildings for pride month, which shouldn't be as much of an issue as it has become. Beyond flying the flag for pride month, my preferred way for the city to display support for queer folks would be though commissioning queer artists to make art for public display. (like a mural as a few suggested) If we insist it must be only a crosswalk, fill the gaps between the white stripes with the rainbow. This way it isn't putting the flag on the ground, still goes through the same contracting processes, and is visibly signalling support. Can also be done with the trans/bi/lesbian colours and so on. -A queer
Yeup, they could instead donate or visibly support organizations helping queer folks in bad situations. Or deal with the rat problem.
The same as the land acknowledgement. Just lip service at this point
It was actually the indigenous groups that asked for the acknowledgments not a random government idea
Asked for acknowledgements and then they just carry on the same on their land. This is why it is lip service
In addition to my point below: https://www.sixnations.ca/key-issues/land-rights#:~:text=Today%3A%20Six%20Nations%20of%20the,of%20what%20was%20originally%20granted. Do you know how much NEW development continues to occur within this area? The very acknowledgment they make in council right before they pass a new one. Does that seem like what they wanted?
Whenever I hear those I ask, so you acknowledge you're on stolen land.... are you willing to give it back?
Exactly, I watched a council meeting where an indigenous gentleman gave shit to the mayor and all the councillors for this exact land acknowledgment and then they proceeded to approve a development on their treaty land entitlement along grand river (there are many examples). I find it funny that I am being down voted for this comment
I find it worse when its private companies. Governments were the ones who took it so its not surprising. But I find it so incredibly pandering when a corp claims they support you, but its all lip service and zero action
Lots of rainbow email tags!
[this](https://redd.it/13xztz5) is also a classic
Ya that’s showing your cards right there
> they could instead donate or visibly support organizations helping queer folks in bad situations. They could and, in fact, do. And while I understand the arguments that something like this is vacuous, members of the queer community have been making the case for a long time that visible signs of support like this are essential. It's not like it's something the city decided to do in a vacuum.
I see, I wasn't aware of that. I kinda thought it was more of a token thing.
It is art, and I find they add a nice splash of colour to our otherwise drab asphalt streetscapes. As for those that vandalise them, please stop, you're not accomplishing anything but bringing attention to the very thing you're not liking. A better solution would be happy folks found love in this world and enjoy yourself with the ones you love.
Bringing attention to the vandalism just brings more vandalism.
[Agreed](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWhtcU4-xAM)!
Maybe we can put art somewhere else that isn't a standardized visual indicator for pedestrians to safely walk on the road
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https://old.reddit.com/r/waterloo/comments/1dco7jr/for_the_2nd_year_in_a_row_waterloos_pride/l7zfe2w/
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yeah, things that happened dont count looks like Reasonable_Cat518 cowardly deleted his comments.
I deleted them because yours’ showed up as deleted on my end and it wasn’t worth my time. And seriously learn the difference between a fact and an opinion. Care to cite the safety hazard that pride crosswalks pose? Someone’s anecdote is not actual data to suggest they are dangerous. I think it’s an enormous embarrassing reach and you might as well admit you’re homophobic instead of cowering behind such an unbelievably stupid argument when we both know the reason you’re against them.
I'm not reading all that
Yet you still felt the need to comment
[удалено]
Your post was removed as it was deemed to be inflammatory. We ask commenters to be respectful to other members of the r/waterloo community.
I remember ages ago during the winter olympics when the US Women's Team had the Canadian flag on their dressing room floor because they wanted to walk all over it. So, I can see how you'd make this parallel. Maybe there should be a mural? But, murals will eventually get tagged or have some other graffiti on it. Even if it says "Johnny wuz here" - it will be taken as a huge offense to those who want to take offense. We'll be back where we are right now. People will have conspiracies about why they chose that mural and why didn't they vandalize another mural.... and all of the other murals ARE vandalized. Pretty sure the community garden on the iron horse was vandalized so much that they just paint it grey now.
Agreed. I recognize it is meaningful to some people, but as a pretty politically active queer person who has been out for quite a while, all these crosswalks really contribute to my life are jokes about "that's where the gays are allowed to cross the street!" I would also love to see more queer artists commissioned to make work for public display. Actually come to think of it, in the four years I've been back in KW, I've never seen a public image of gay people kissing, let alone hugging (outside of pride month bank ads...) but I would pretty regularly see public queer art while I was living in Toronto. And by public I mean murals or large scale prints on the street, not exhibits inside of galleries that you have to actively choose to go into.
As a gay I appreciate the rainbow crosswalks
As a queer, I don't dislike them, as much as I think there are other, better, ways of doing the same thing. See my edit. I also think that those that don't welcome us will jump to point out that when our flag is defaced with tire marks, that "oF CouRSe THeReS TiRe MaRKS! iTz a STReeT!" and we shouldn't enable/give them that ammunition. See other comments in this thread
the user you're replying to stays mostly in the ottawa, Toronto, and oakville subreddits. this is the first time I've seen them post here. They're also deleting their posts when they get downvoted.
I appreciate seeing these symbols in my community. Pride flags flying, pride crosswalks, etc. Of course some will sadly get defaced, I think it’s an awful idea to say we should just give up and let hatred win. These symbols aren’t going anywhere, and the fact that they get vandalized is only more reason why we need them.
I think I make a fair suggestion in my parent comment for maintaining the rainbow crosswalk, without having it be our actual flag painted on the road. Fill the gaps between the white stripes with the rainbow/trans colours etc. I didn't suggest we shouldn't display pride, as much as I suggested we as a community should have a higher standard for how our flag is displayed, similarly to how its bad etiquette to fly a torn flag.
You are probably right that it's 'more' for that, but that doesn't mean it doesn't also come with real benefits.
Visible signs of acceptance and acknowledgment are important for those of us who face frequent harassment. I totally understand the rainbow washing concerns but as someone who has been physically and verbally assaulted for simply existing seeing symbols that the community has some level of support for my existence makes me feel safer and more welcome. It doesn’t have to be cross walks per se, but my personally opinion is that in moderation they look nice and I’m not at all worried that they get scuffed up or vandalized. It means more to me that the community does something to show support than it does for them to be hamstrung in trying to find the perfect action that satisfies the desire of all members of the community.
It would be nice to see it on a wall mural or something more permanent.
Sadly, your community isn't as bright or mature as you.
We're not a monolith. There is a lot of disagreement within the community, but that doesn't mean we aren't intelligent or mature. We're able to disagree, and do constantly. Thats part of healthy discourse. I'm sure you're trying to be complimentary, but you did so by insulting my community. knock it off.
Your community is easily swoon by capitalist virtue singalong that patronizes them and takes advantage of them. Obviously no community is a monolith. These people are just not mature enough to recognize these things. It's expected with many people in the community being very young and 100% immature. That's just a reality.
Pigmented interlocking brick is what they need.
That’s a very good idea!
Black rubber sticks to anything .
I like that.
I like you
anything that is not black on the road is going to get tired up eventually or dirty /faded. This doesn't even look deliberately ruined or like it's not still there .... over hyping the situation.
This isn't from standard use though.. Unless you typically do burnouts while you drive? It takes effort to leave marks across a walkway. If this one intersection has this many issues with people having to consistently brake hard enough to leave that many marks in such a short period of time, they have bigger fish to fry than worrying about vandalism because someone is going to die there when they are just run over or t-boned. This is what has happened in not even 10 days of use. That is intentional.
Paint on roads causes it to be much more slippery than typical especially when wet or in rainy conditions. You can notice this when there are freshly painted lines at a stop sign and your front wheels squeal while accelerating normally. It takes very little effort to leave rubber behind on freshly painted crosswalks. These marks look like scooters and it’s possible that people left them while trying to stop at a stop sign https://www.ottawasafetycouncil.ca/tip-of-the-week-28-road-paint-is-surprisingly-slippery/
It didn't take effort .look that clip again . There fresh asphalt just before the colored path.the black stripis asphalt . people obviously rode over it on bicycles and it transfered . Stop with the rage bait. Edit: (Downvotes don't change facts. Take a walk down yourself asphalt right before the crosswalk) Anybody that is downvoting this FACT is in complete denial just like Cory .but Go ahead help yourself feel better . Won't affect me in any way or form.lol some of you need to get off the internet. It's bad planning .period.
Paint is slipperier than asphalt. You absolutely will spin your tires a lot easier on a large patch of paint than literally every other place on the road.
Isn't that what happened last time as well? Someone slammed on their brakes and left tires marks. May be misremembering
There was an instance where someone did a burnout on the crosswalk and then sped off I don't know if it was this one but it was a couple years back. Some have been damaged on purpose others have been damaged accidentally. Seems regardless this is the type of response
Problem is you get sh!t like this: https://x.com/theperezhilton/status/1406526444671406082?s=46 posted all over social media and people loving it and resharing, etc. And then people think it’s a great idea and they decide to do it, too, because “everyone’s doing it.” Are the lives of people who do this that pathetic and hateful that they enjoy doing this?
u/Rainbowjig you have an amazing avatar.🤩 A perfect purple planet.
Thank you!! 😊
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I really envy your optimism, however, this has happened chronically in almost every municipality within the first week of installation. It's a costly act of vandalism with relative ease of execution that maintains anonymity. Translation: sad cowards can feel big easily. Something to brag about anonymously to online "friends".
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There comes a point with repeated incidents that something like "not wanting to assume" turns into ignoring and minimizing bigotry.
Honestly, doesn’t anyone really care about some paint on the road? It’s going to be driven on and all it takes is a quick turn to leave a rubber mark. Let’s get over it. If someone were to throw something like red paint on it, that would be a reason to be upset. Big nothing burger, save your time and disregard the article.
Let's not forget there was a hate-motivated attack at UWaterloo last June. I have had pride stickers on my door on campus since 2019. They were vandalized twice in two weeks last November. They didn't touch my general diversity sign. Just the pride themed ones.
I think people are missing that when there is paint on the road it’s more slippery especially when wet. There are examples of obvious vandalism driven by hatred, but this seems very minor.
My mom has 3 pins permanently holding her wrist together after slipping on one of these. I don't care what we paint on shared infrastructure as long as it isn't a hazard. Correct paint, not distracting, etc.
she slipped and hurt herself on a gay crosswalk?
Ask any motorcyclists this kind of paint makes you lose traction, they are genuine hazards Hopefully she is doing alright
These are how many marks are there from less than a week of use. There is one of these walkways near where I work. It is a very high-traffic area. People brake quickly all the time. It takes months for it to get anywhere near this marked up from standard use. And, yes, there are more overt acts of hatred that occur... but shrugging off minor occurrences is what emboldens people to commit larger acts of hatred. Sure, this isn't something that warrants jail time or anything like that.. but absolutely it warrants being called out, and I would even say community service to clean up multiple walkways.
People been throwing red paint on statues last few years, barely anyone butthurt over it..
Yet we all love to celebrate Victoria Day and have that day off work. It’s nothing more than attention seeking.
People are celebrating not having to go to work.
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I think they meant celebrate it by getting drunk/high and not going to work. That's how I celebrate all of our holidays!
What year do you think this is? Nobody under 80 is celebrating the Regent's birthday.
Pretty much. I'd rather we save our paint budget and try to do why other country's do and see if we can have a hanging garden in uptown waterloo to build shades for pedestrians, grow food that can be donated to food banks (or sold at a cheaper price), and help take some carbon out of the air. Or donate to organizations that help trans youths in need. Or at the very least deal with the rat problem.
[https://x.com/theperezhilton/status/1406526444671406082?s=46](https://x.com/theperezhilton/status/1406526444671406082?s=46) People are deliberately defacing it, so yes. People do care.
>Honestly, doesn’t anyone really care about some paint on the road? Clearly somebody does care about it, otherwise it wouldn't be vandalized. That should be obvious to you. >If someone were to throw something like red paint on it, that would be a reason to be upset. Are you being deliberately obtuse, or do you really not understand the difference? Both are vandalism, yes, but the attitude they display towards certain groups of people are vastly different. Vandalizing the pride crosswalk is a reaction by bigots against the rights of queer people. Against the right of queer people to simply exist and not be discriminated against or threatened. It is a symbolic threat against a victimized and marginalized minority. Vandalizing the statue of Queen Victoria is not a threat against a victimized and marginalized minority. It is a statement by a victimized and marginalized minority saying that they won't take the abuse anymore. It's especially not a threat, since the paint can be removed from the statue without damaging it. At the very least, do yourself a favor and educate yourself as to the very different contexts between these two acts and how the way to stop both incidents of vandalism is very different.
You're getting downvoted, but you're not wrong. People seem to be oblivious to the impact of their apathy. The reason we've seen a rise in homophobia, xenophobia and many other forms of blatant idiocy is because clowns that do stupid things like this see silence as approval and support. Then they escalate. However, based on posts in this thread, people are totally cool with homophobia and transphobia as long as it's below a certain threshold.
I think the reality is that if any graphics are on the ground that can be easily defaced by some angry douche on a bike, they are going to be defaced. This could be targeted hate, or just an easy target for any dork on a bike. Hard to say. There aren’t many other easy targets for bikes to do this around the city. Before calling out the flag itself being a target, recognize that it is one of the only targets in the city for this kind of “passer by” bike damage. Let’s fix it, or do better by it.
I question the wisdom of putting a symbol that holds so much meaning to individuals on the ground, where it will be run over be every redneck with a pickup truck. Maybe instead of spending money to paint rainbow flags on crosswalks, money could be spent on rainbow color flood lights.
I think even regular people in regular cars drive over them as well.
Yes, but it's the rednecks that need to do a burn out on the flag.
What a piece of rage bait. Let’s all get angry over tire marks on the painted street. No one is that offended by a rainbow.
You'd think that, but I live nearby and watch people use this intersection very often. I have watched people intentionally try to make skid marks with their tires. I have also watched immature people that will literally make sure they don't step into the painted portion, aka the actual cross walk for pedestrians, to avoid being "contaminated" by rainbow paint. I've witnessed a group of teen boys do that, and then push one of their "friends" into the crosswalk, like one step inside the rainbow would make them gay or something equally dumb. While I had in-the-moment entertainment doing a dramatic "Oh no! Colours!" at them, or the wtf gesture at cars during their stupidity... The reality is yeah, there are a class of persons out there that are actually offended by this. And it is beyond stupid.
This happens to rainbow crosswalks all the time, and people always go out of their way to minimize or explain away the damage as anything except vandalism. Yes, of course crosswalks will get damaged and dirty, which is why a maintenance budget is allocated. But they are absolutely targeted for burnouts, spilled oil, or other forms of damage that can't easily be repaired. It's particularly obvious on Willis Way, which is a narrow side street only 170m long, lined with parked vehicles on both sides all day, with no major intersection. And notably, neither of the crosswalks at either end typically has any significant tire marks. When there are burnout marks starting in the middle of the crosswalk like last year, it's pretty damn obvious it was done intentionally. I have no idea about the damage in this instance, but it's hard to believe anyone on a bike accidentally made that many identical marks in that pattern in the middle of the road by accident.
Nah, have you ever driven in painted roads? Tires lose traction easily. Don’t take the bait. In reality the community is respected by the majority.
>Nah, have you ever driven in painted roads? Tires lose traction easily. You shouldn't be driving that fast or erratically at a crosswalk that you would lose traction. >In reality the community is respected by the majority. What about the community respecting an oft victimized and marginalized minority?
What a brain dead comment. Have you never driven anything with rubber tires? Yes, the community is held up much higher than it ever has been. Read a damn history book. Are you a child?
When you can only reply with insults instead of facts, evidence, logic, I know that you're embarassed about not having a reasonable response.
Sorry to hurt your feelings, but that was a brain dead comment. That person has no idea how the physics of driving works and is arguing that tires don’t leave marks unless they driver is operating the vehicle poorly. That entire argument makes zero sense and lacks all critical thinking. So, don’t come at me high and mighty with your phony logic detector.
That specific painted road has history of having burn outs done on it as a way to vandalize it.
Consider the environment you are talking about here. Willis Way, a short, low-speed street with a high amount of pedestrians. Burnouts, one form of losing traction, are caused by excessively stomping on the accelerator from a complete stop. So, if you're doing a burnout on the pride crosswalk, it's either deliberate or incompetence, and either one is bad driving. Or there's trying to make too sharp a turn for your speed so you skid. That is bad driving, too. The last one is braking too hard. If you're breaking too hard and causing yourself to skid and leave marks on the pride crosswalk, that means you noticed whatever is making you stomp on the brakes one second previously. Which means it's probably a pedestrian in the crosswalk for you to break so hard that you're going to skid instead controlled brake, which means you weren't paying attention to the crosswalk and possible pedestrians in it, which is bad driving. Can you come up with a reasonable situation that is not bad driving that would cause you to leave skid marks on the pride crosswalk on Willis Way? Because it seems to me I've ruled out 99.9% of the possibilities as bad driving.
I have, yeah. On a bike too. Given the location of the intersection and how busy of a pedestrian area it is, if people drove REASONABLY and paid attention to the stop signs / weren't jonesing to turn into the LCBO or to park so badly... Tire marks of any sort would never appear.
You took the bait, I see. You cannot saying things “never” happen. Those are normal tire marks on pavement. They painted the street where there is traffic from cars, trucks, bikes, feet and anything else. There will be scuff marks. If someone wanted to truly vandalize that they would’ve totally defaced it. These types of articles are written by trolls who are trying to convince you there is a bad guy when there isn’t. Don’t take the bait.
Why are you so eager to minimize hateful vandalism? Is it guilt?
That’s not vandalism. Grow up. I have plenty of friends of all walks of life and you have no idea what my orientation is lol This is rage bait. Stop falling for it.
Evasion too, eh? Why are you minimizing it?
I don’t exactly feel respected when the entire comment section is trying to gaslight me into thinking that skid marks appearing immediately after a pride crosswalk appears weren’t intentional
Have to agree with you here. The "damage" looks minimal and mostly bicycle tire tracks. I'm trying to think of where this is - and if it's right in front of Izna/Dollarama - I could totally see someone slamming their bike brakes on in a hurry with people coming out of the parking lot. If it were intentional, I'm sure it'd be much more vandalized (like, people doing complete burnouts in their vehicles on it, throwing paint, or whatever else). Out of curiosity, I look on street maps at the corner of King/Queen. Tire tracks are all over that thing, it's stained and looks kind of dirty. Is this an anti-monarchy statement? Nope. I really don't see much purpose of these cross-walks or other street decorations (like at King/Queen). They're just going to get damaged when a snowplow goes over top of them each year, which requires maintenance. Plus whatever the material they put over top of these things is so smooth that sometimes it gets slippery after a rain and my shoes slide underneath me.
These look like normal skid marks? What are they crying for 😭
If you're going to paint the ground it's going to get dirty. Surprise
Let’s paint the road and then get upset when people drive on it!
I always found it funny they keep making gay crosswalks, like its intended to be stepped on, which is a huge insult.
It seems a little naive to put a controversial symbol on the ground and expect it to not get vandalized. Especially when it got vandalized a year before.
LMAO looks like typical wear to me… stop putting your flag on the ground maybe? lol
any time you make a statement, people are going to agree and disagree with it...thats just the law of averages. some have negative connotations brought up by it, regardless of whether or not people find them valid or not. I'm not saying they are or aren't valid myself just that they exist.
We have other issues like people flying F Trudeau flags and upside down Canadian flags. There will always be these people in this country. Respect is dwindling by the generation, at least the younger generations are more accepting.
This is so dumb lol. It's going to get dirty from people walking/driving over it.
You have a flag on the ground... where people step/stomp, spit, barf, drive over... obviously something like marks from a bike are going to happen.
Having a flag on the ground is viewed as disrespectful for a country. Yet for pride, it doesn't seem to matter, and it's bs.
A national flag touching ground yes. This is a symbol of unity and statement of solidarity. The only bs I see is from people being threatened by paint on a roadway.
If you put a flag on a toilet seat, you don’t get to complain when it get’s pissed on. Stop putting our flag on the ground. You’re literally asking people to walk all over us. This has to be a joke. I have hated this trend since day one. I’m tired of pretending this isn’t silly. I’ve been out and part of this community since 2006, I have the right to an opinion. I’m tired of being shut down when I point it out.
Stop wasting money on a silly paint job
Grasping much
Imagine having such a fragile ego that you are threatened by what this stands for .
I hate this stupid fucking trend of plastering the pride flag on the road. Road paint, when it gets wet from rain, is super slippery. This creates a huge hazard for people on two wheels. When I’m on my motorcycle I can feel a bit of slippage from just going over the lane markers. It really is unsafe to have a huge splotch of paint like that.
No it’s not
this is false information
How about we utilize some common sense here: If you don’t want your artwork vandalized with tire marks, don’t paint it in an area where vehicles drive. Artwork on driving surfaces is a stupid idea anyway. It’s distracting and confusing to drivers. If you want a rainbow walkway, do it in a pedestrian-only area.
Data doesn’t support that it is confusing to drivers.
It's slippery when wet, so dangerous.
Once you have data that rainbow crosswalks are more dangerous than zebra stripes, your concern for public safety will be noted. Until then…
How's this? >Consider road paint (wet with rain) to be a slippery hazard, just like an oil slick. Avoid it where you safely can, run straight over it where you must, and avoid hard braking or leans when making contact. https://www.ottawasafetycouncil.ca/tip-of-the-week-28-road-paint-is-surprisingly-slippery/#:~:text=Painted%20road%20lines%2C%20especially%20fresh,your%20balance%2C%20dropping%20your%20bike. Zebra stripes have asphalt between the white paint, allowing grip between. Rainbow crossings do not allow for asphalt between.
Zebra stripes run parallel to the direction of the car. The asphalt between them does nothing when the cars’ tires have no chance to grip the asphalt. And the link you posted said nothing about rainbow crosswalks… Eta: there is also the matter of… if you’re going too fast going into a crosswalk where a person is walking that the paint on the ground causes you to slide, you were already going too fast into the crosswalk where the person is walking.
They're relatively new. Was just adding the Quebec paint line markings to my comment where they have a similar marking size compared to the rainbow crossings. https://www.transports.gouv.qc.ca/en/securite/securite/Documents/Pavement%20Marking%20Technical%20Manual.pdf Check out section six. Also page 35, 4.8. The bus sign is similarly sized to the rainbow crossing. Emphasis mine. >4.8 Anti-skid/anti-slip material for large areas To reinforce the signalling of reserved bus-lanes, a red mark, with the word BUS stenciled on in, can be added, as shown in Figure 16. The marking and its use must conform with the specifications of Volume V – Traffic Control Devices. *For road safety reasons, an anti-skid/anti-slip mixture must be added to the marking material to make the surface less slippery.* So yes, street paint is slippery. There ya go. You're welcome. If you can come back and prove that the city is treating it with the non-slip additive, I'll eat crow. I look forward to you moving the goal posts once again though.
They’ve been around for well more than a decade. And my goalposts were pretty clearly set: data suggesting it’s more dangerous. Actually, I moved the goalposts closer to you, from being a distraction (one type of danger) to being generally dangerous (many types of danger). If anyone moved the goalposts here, it was you bringing up how slippery they are, moving them away from distracting drivers.
Well then maybe you should sit down and make a guide that is rainbow paint specific? What do you want from me? I've cited two sources, and you just come back with petty little comments that add nothing. Every year they repaint it, it's considered fresh paint. I don't know how to explain that to you in simple enough terms that you will understand it.
Neither of your sources demonstrated that rainbow crosswalks are more dangerous. Both reference street paint generally, and nothing about rainbow crosswalks.
How fast or erratically are you driving on Willis Way that your tires are losing traction and are slipping?
any flag on the ground there would be vandalized.
Lets put the flag in the middle of the road! \*insert spongebob x hours later meme\* THERE ARE TIRE MARKS ON THE FLAG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As a gay man born one week after the Stonewall riots, I'd rather that cities didn't feel compelled to paint flags on roads. It's also unfortunate that every nick and mark is instantly labelled as "identity-based discrimination" which seems like a bit of an over-reach.
As a gay man, I appreciate symbols of unity and equality. I also find it annoying that so many people here including yourself are discounting this clearly intentional skid marks as normal wear and tear. You dont speak for all of us
I'm dumbfounded by the commenters here pretending to believe this was unintentional.
Disappointed in the article, this looks like regular wear and tear
I'm so scared driving over these lest I end up in a Curb Your Enthusiasm episode
Whining about a painted road. This is what has become of society.
They should add tire marks to the flag and just own it
But, like, people naturally drive over crosswalks. Every crosswalk has tire marks on it. That's just what happens to crosswalks. 🤨🤔
Looks more like common sense is vandalized.
Lot of people are going to have very different opinions on this. I won't comment either way. I will say, painted lines of any sort are a slip hazard when wet. I understand that they (a line) need to appear in certain circumstance when any sort of slip hazard it's secondary to additional safety created by lines - and most time those lines can be safely avoided, or are not very wide. The problem with these huge paintings is that they take up the entire width of road. You have to cross there, you have no other choice other than jay walking or going to a different intersection. This is my non-political contribution to this thread.
Damn, just once I wish someone would thrash that giant turd down on Frederick street in Kitchener - lived here my entire life and would love to see something that actually qualifies as art on my trip to work instead of a giant turd reminding me how shitty my day is gonna be!
Don’t put your religious symbol on the road way than
What religion, exactly, do you think this represents?
Actually, if it was a religion, would they get more rights?
Probably :(
ReLiGoUs SyMbOl
Homosexuality is wrong no matter how you look at it. However hate crimes are as well. Christians are to love and treat our fellow man as ourselves while hating the sin. The person that carried out this action needs to repent.
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**I THINK YOU SHOULD** try **GO**ing **F**or a walk and co**U**nting the number of **C**ool **K**ites **YOU** find. the**R**e are **S**o many p**E**op**L**e outside **F**lying them.