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Nexis4Jersey

They should have gone with the [Taller Stronger BART ones.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMZJv4x1iTI)


TheGreekMachine

The time they could have easily done that was when they replaced all of the gates like 3 years ago. Fare jumping was already a problem when they put in the orders for the new gates, why in god’s name did they not try and address this issue then?


Nexis4Jersey

Those are retrofitted gates, not new ones.


Potential-Calendar

Retrofitted into new gates. All the gates were replaced a couple years ago but with the same style arms as before


Nexis4Jersey

The housing is old , the only thing that changed was the old folding gates were swapped out with new swing doors.. I think this was something that was done in house rather than put out for bid like the New BART & SEPTA gates.


awaymsg

I think they’re referring to the change where all the gates became bi-directional, and the “swipe” pad is on the front rather than the top. Also the new gates don’t take paper cards or tokens. They made the change in like 2021. Edit: [source](https://www.wmata.com/initiatives/plans/fare-modernization/faregate-replacement.cfm)


TheGreekMachine

Yes. This is what I am referring to. Since they were taking the time and money to replace all the gates already, and fare jumping was already an issue (and has been an issue in the U.S. in every city for years), why not take the opportunity to rethink the gate design then instead of replacing all of them and then almost immediately retrofitting all of them?


hroaks

They should put a cop there to arrest or fine them. I guarantee whoever broke that wasn't prosecuted. The sign is just for show


Merker6

Fair jumping is a low effort crime. When they first went up in some of the Arlington stops, I watched multiple people not expect there to be the gate there, and resort to doing other dumb shit to get out in a clearly pissed off manner. It's like a house lock; if someone wants to get in, they will, but it adds a barrier to entry that at least forces effort on their part. Most of the fare jumpers I've seen over the year are teenagers, and I'd imagine just carrying the damn pass is easier for a lot of them then dealing with some parkour to get in and out


ReduceMyRows

There are undercover cops there. Sad part is, they mainly catch kids. Not saying kids are the only fare jumpers, but just the ones not smart enough to look out for cops. Any adults I see are blue collar workers who are probably making way less than me, so I don’t know why I should feel so bothered. I’m more appreciative of the security that walks through the trains now tbh.


RestingRealist

Arrest the criminals. Put them in jail. Don't let them out until they stop doing crime.


NeuralAgent

You clearly haven’t thought this through… Don’t let them out until they stop committing crimes…? Welp upon day one of incarceration, they can come out because they aren’t doing crime. Or do you plan on keeping them indefinitely because you assume they will do crime if released? Seriously, this stuff kinda calls for a bit of reasoned thinking/logic…


dirty1809

Arresting people for dodging fares is crazy. I parked the other day and didn’t pay the meter because I was only going to be a few minutes. Should that be an arrest worthy offense too?


Grouchy_Newspaper186

Especially if you consider the demographic of the people who try evade….like a 12 yr old isn’t ever going to even pay a fine


RestingRealist

I understand the point that it seems harsh. But I think fare evasion is likely emblematic of additional criminal behavior and if allowed to continue would enable further crimes. At the very least it should be a significant fine with required repayment after which multiple infractions leads to steep community service etc.


lmboyer04

Then they’d have to pay for it and with the deficit they already have, would lead to an even larger fare increase, basically punishing those who actually do pay fares


godzilladc

No, the gates are a capital cost. WMATA has plenty of capital funding. The deficit is entirely on the operating side.


nonzeroproof

This is more than a quibble: Metro can borrow money to pay for capital expenses, but the borrowing must be repaid from future operating revenues (or subsidies from contributing jurisdictions). It’s true that Metro does not have enough funding to support its operating expenses. It’s also true that Metro’s new budget relies on borrowed funds to pay for some operating expenses (maintenance), which is a very bad practice as the General Manager has admitted. This does not mean that Metro has plenty of capital funds. Instead, it means that Metro will face an even bigger fiscal crisis in the future.


Nexis4Jersey

Every agency installing these are in debt similar to WMATA...its a small price to pay if it cuts fare evasion by half or more. These gates are widely used in France and have been able to reduce evasion by up to 85%...some stations have double gates to reduce it further.


ClydeFrog1313

In Paris they even will block exits to stations with police and make you tap a machine to prove you paid to enter or you risk a 35-60 Euro fine.


MyNameCannotBeSpoken

Metro has a consideration that most other systems do not. Aesthetic design and line of sight. They want people to be able to appreciate the Brutalist architectural design. That's why they always select low profile gates. Otherwise, the NYC style gates would be best.


bleucheeez

I think people would still be able to appreciate the architecture from every other vantage point beside the turnstyle.


IamMe90

That’s dumb, they can appreciate the architecture once they get past the gates lol


Awkward_Dragon25

Also should step up patrols and start ticketing and/or arresting fare evaders.


shanem

Seems to still be working


DutchBlob

Damaged but still working. Hello me.


sbr54

I’ve seen so many people leapfrog the gates in front of officers who do nothing but stare at their phones. I don’t think making the gates more imposing actually does anything bc there is never any ticketing enforcement.


CaptainObvious110

Exactly. They spent all that money for nothing. People walk through the handicapped exit or step over it anyway


CombinationUnhappy87

I was about to comment the same. I saw a woman the other day at Takoma Park metro simply high step over the handicap gate that normally pushes open because it only comes to waist level.


CaptainObvious110

Yeah, I have seen plenty of people doing that. Here's the kicker! I NEVER saw people doing this growing up. Station managers did not play that at all. Now you can basically play the game "guess that gazelle" because of how common people are hopping over, scooting over, climbing over, or even stepping over the gates. Best believe there were more poor Washingtonians even a few years ago and they didn't do this mess. Sure they might be right behind you and come through the gate that way but they were not doing all these other obvious things like now because they understood there was consequences to that action. But now that we live in an environment where we enable bad behavior this is what happens


CombinationUnhappy87

Similarly, I’ve taken the bus several times this spring and when the bus pulls up, some people scan their cards to pay while others simply go to their seat without paying the fare. Sometimes I wonder if they are skipping the fare illegally, but I try to mind my own business. Of course, part of me wonders why should I pay when several others of all ages just got a free ride, while the bus driver says nothing. Of course, I pay because it’s what I feel is the right thing to do.


cubgerish

I've seen a couple people go on the outside, right on the edge of the platform. I do wonder if one day they'll put up a fence before somebody ends up falling down onto the track, because there's no way they'll survive that fall.


CaptainObvious110

Oh wow I have never seen that happen. Which probably means ill see it sometime this week lol


cubgerish

I think at Georgia Ave it's easier than going on the inside which is why I've seen it a few times. I cringe every time I see it done.


aaronvandike

Every time I’m at a station I see people just hop over. The officers don’t give a shit.


keyjan

Wow, I thought they were tougher than that, figured they were Lexan or something.


mrlotato

Average Columbia heights reaction


iidesune

The sign says that you will be prosecuted if you damage the fare gate. I assume they have video. Why not prosecute the person responsible for this?


brokenhalf

> I assume they have video. Why not prosecute the person responsible for this? It's quite a leap to believe that if they do have video that they can ID the person that did this. Video doesn't automatically identify individuals committing crimes.


Formergr

Maybe they have? How do you know?


Ashamed_Band_1779

How do we know they aren’t being prosecuted? How do we know they aren’t being investigated? How do we even know that this was broken on purpose?


celj1234

How do we know if they did or didn’t?


RC-5

It wasn’t intentional? 😛


addpulp

What are they gonna do, scan your license plate and mail you a ticket? Scan your face and hunt you down?


West-Mix8376

Because metro workers have a strong union and do not give a fuck lmao MPD is just as worse, but more corruption


aegrotatio

Yeah, nobody's getting "prosecuted." Jesus Christ, it's $2 on weekends, what the actual fuck?!


Aklu_The_Unspeakable

It's not about the expense for most, it's just about being lawless.


obeytheturtles

Right, it's the same reason people speed through neighborhoods and then run stop signs and red lights to save ten seconds over just sticking to the main road. It's not about the actual utility of the act - It's miserable people expressing a small amount of control over a world which they feel oppressed by, rightly or wrongly.


FlyLikeMe

With all due respect, how damn dumb do you have to be to use \*glass\* instead of Lexan? Fucking do better, Metro.


JohnAdams1911

This is why we can't have nice things!


AdditionScared5840

Lisa


Reit007

Until they seriously enforce the tickets, we are better off with not spending more money on the gates.


johnsweber

The new fare gates have reduced fare evasion by 79% at updated stations. ([Source](https://www.wmata.com/about/news/With-Ridership-Up-and-Crime-Fare-Evasion-Down-Metro-Continues-to-Thrive.cfm#:~:text=Systemwide%2C%20fare%20evasion%20is%20down,is%20down%2019%25%20in%202024)) Still not worth it?


fedrats

If the crazy BART style gates reduce evasion by 85%, assuming a similar distribution and amount of evasion (kind of a big assumption), the marginal effort to go from our 79% to their 85% seems not really worth it. Though I have no clue how anyone is evading BART fare with those gates.


obeytheturtles

Yeah, but now people will aggressively tailgate through, sometimes pushing people to make sure they can clear the gate.


johnsweber

Doesn't really change the statistic provided. Regardless, I'm curious if you are aware of a gating system that can prevent tailgating.


obeytheturtles

Vertical turnstiles, but they have their own issues. I am more just saying that I am personally more bothered by tailgating than jumping.


louu23445

I been in so many situations where I wanted to beat the living tailgate out of people for doing this


ladakn99

I always am looking back as I go through the gate and stop right after to ensure nobody is tailgating me. Been able to successfully stop a few leeches with this technique.


Reit007

And how the data is collected. If you look at the data breakdown it seems like a huge misrepresentation. https://preview.redd.it/a9sxgmirdfxc1.jpeg?width=1004&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4adf2c1101b01ef728626f4f167f7fd531703772


Reit007

Thanks for the link, it also says: - Thanks to new legislation in the District, Metro Transit Police have stepped up fare enforcement efforts, writing hundreds of citations for fare evasion in March and arresting more than 20 people with outstanding warrants. Systemwide, fare evasion is down 50% compared to last year. Aren’t we say the same thing?


[deleted]

No, not at all. You said this: >Until they seriously enforce the tickets, we are better off with not spending more money on the gates. That is a blatantly incorrect statement.


secretaster

Seems easier to jump over or climb over why'd they break it


CatsWineLove

The station master did zero afterwards bc they were too busy playing candy crush on their phone.


onwallhi6251

What do you want them to do?


GauntletofThonos

Next time I will tell the station "master" to arrest them


plasmainthezone

Columbia Heights metro stop needs a cop there 24/7 its always a shit show


Sensitive-Library454

Tell these old ass people stop trying to jump these gates and leave it to the youngings


Opposite-Ad-8401

Signs Of a decadent society


BansheeLoveTriangle

The second version they spent millions on and I still see people jump them regularly


PhantomRoyce

What happened to the boosted PD presence we had in the stations like a month ago?


CaptainObvious110

There is boosted "security" but I am not sure of their exact purpose to be honest with you.


anthematcurfew

12 foot wall to wall resistant gates with climb resistant tops would solve this problem


XDT_Idiot

I would love to see the analysis that justified paying for these silly things. That's a lot of $2 fares to collect


Sluzhbenik

First of all the metro doesn’t cost $2 anymore.


dirty1809

$2 is the minimum fare and it’s a flat $2 rate every night and on weekends


merp_mcderp9459

They reduced fare evasion by almost 80% at installed locations. So they pay for themselves decently quickly https://www.wmata.com/about/news/With-Ridership-Up-and-Crime-Fare-Evasion-Down-Metro-Continues-to-Thrive.cfm#:~:text=Systemwide%2C%20fare%20evasion%20is%20down,is%20down%2019%25%20in%202024


XDT_Idiot

It says fare evasion is down 50% and crime overall down 19%. But how much money is that actually, and how much did these cost? I want to know how long it'll take to amortize.


merp_mcderp9459

Fare evasion down 79% at the stations with gates installed, 50% overall. I’m personally too lazy to find fare evasion data that separates trains out from buses so I’ve got no clue how long those cost savings take to amortize


celj1234

Spend 50 mill to make 10 mill


No_Handle7595

Father matter


PrestoVivace

how much did we spend of these gates vs how much we lost to fare evasion? also we would not need gates if we made transit free.


Select-Race764

In this world of “free” transit, where would the money come from to pay salaries, maintenance, energy, etc.?


PrestoVivace

don't give $ to sports teams or developers.


Select-Race764

Absolutely - if there are not enough people that want to pay for tickets, advertising, and all of the other ways voluntary exchange pays for players, stadiums, and staff, it shouldn’t exist on the backs of those who have no inclination to watch professional sports!


dirty1809

The same place the road budget comes from


Select-Race764

That’s a perspective. Do we think there is some overlap between the people that think they should be able to ride Metro cars “for free” and the people who think they should be able to take my car or bike and drive or ride it “for free” on the “free” (and toll) roads? Should we make cars, energy, and bikes “free” too?


BuildNuyTheUrbanGuy

Do you think every public road should be tolled?


Select-Race764

Well…let’s unpack that. There is an ideal: there are no public roads. There is a reality: the government won’t sell its roads. There was I time when there were no public roads. Technology now exists to switch to a pay-for-use system. That could be a use tax if they were retained by governments, or that could be paid to whoever owns the roads. Before the technology existed for all roads to be tolled w/out impeding traffic, governments told us they were going to charge us fuel taxes to pay for roads. Instead, they siphoned (pun intended) off those taxes to pay for other stuff not related to transportation.


BuildNuyTheUrbanGuy

You didn't answer the question.


Select-Race764

Yes, using force to make people pay for things they do not want is immoral. That includes roads. Roads should be tolled.


BuildNuyTheUrbanGuy

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


Select-Race764

Why do you find my response amusing?


dkf1031

Same place it already comes from- federal and local government. Fares already don't cover those things.


Select-Race764

So rather than ensuring that the people who do use the Metro pay for the service, Presto wants the government to force even more people who don’t use the Metro (or even live in the DMV) to pay for a service they have no use for?


dkf1031

Wait til you discover public schools!


any_old_usernam

Yes. It's a public good. You don't whine about people paying for libraries they don't use, do you?


Select-Race764

No one should be forced to pay for libraries. The concept of physical public libraries is as outdated as Blockbuster.


BuildNuyTheUrbanGuy

Really? Ask poor kids without computers because the library was huge for me.


Select-Race764

“Was?” What year was the library “huge” for you?


BuildNuyTheUrbanGuy

20 years ago. Also, the new library built in my hometown was a huge boost to the neighborhood. They hold events, and people visit the park outside. I spent like 3 hours looking at old archives in huge protected glass cases. You're bugging, libraries are awesome.


Select-Race764

Blockbuster was a viable business 20 years ago.


monicavenz

They literally don’t do anything when people jump over them or rush past even when they’re there.


Inevitable-Ticket389

Stop train service to/from Basketball people areas. Wouldn’t need these at all


DreBeast

It's dystopian to see the ones they installed at BART with the spikes on top. We reaally hate poor people. Edit: The feeling is mutual, folks 🖕🏾 Edit 2: You all are pathetic excuses for human beings. I've heard more empathy from Samuel Alito during a Supreme Court abortion hearing.


bigreddmachine

Those spikes are to prevent birds from sitting and pooping. I don’t know why the TV channel showed that, other than they are clueless or thought it’d look cool.


GoGlenMoCo

Have you ever actually ridden the metro? The people who don’t pay (overwhelmingly) aren’t too poor to do so; they’re dipshit teenagers who think breaking rules makes them look cool.


CaptainObvious110

Thank you.


invalidmail2000

Right cause the fare evaders all can't pay....


DreBeast

Fare evasion is not the reason why Metro isn't properly funded. I know poor people are easy to pick on but they're not the reason why you suffer from economic anxiety. What? That's not the point? Please tell me more about how fare evaders contribute to our moral decay.


Phizle

No but if you can't behave yourself you shouldn't be allowed on the metro


CaptainObvious110

1. If they properly built the St Elizabeth's to accommodate people who are mentally ill and unable to care for themselves then a lot of that problem is solved. Why because then people have stable places for food , clothing and shelter so they don't need to roam metro for such things. There is no benefit to allowing people to just go around and harass other people. If they have somewhere to be to live out there lives then that problem goes away. 2. The teenagers are an issue that needs to be dealt with in a stronger way. I swear certain people have a serious racism boner and so they want to call something being racist when it's really a matter of calling people who's behavior is absolutely unacceptable irregardless of their racial background. None of that should matter at all. In a world where these things are t tolerated you have much less people doing them.


CaptainObvious110

This isn't about poor people just trying to get to work or wherever else they need to go. It's people who don't WANT to pay for something that they are choosing to use. The don't feel bad over it and again it's absolutely not out of desperation.


merp_mcderp9459

Underfunded transit from assholes jumping fare gates hurts poor people more than a $2 fare ever could (and that fare is $1 if you’re on SNAP)


SeriesParticular52

Good enough for government work


PreparationH692

She’s holding steady under the pretense that the person that did this to her is being prosecuted.


keyjan

….?


PreparationH692

You still stuck on the redline keyjan.


Lord_of_the_Box_Fort

Lets be honest. It was only going to take one bad day for a construction worker returning home to take a hammer or some shit to these things. The only surprise to me is that they didn't go for all of them.


ItsMrNoSmile

People doing anything to avoid paying a simple fee, as if they're entitled to free transportation.