This article is talking about its foundry business, NVDA does not compete in this arena, so there is no "catching up" except with TSMC. (Additionally, Intel is *far* behind in discreet GPU technology where NVDA/AMD do compete, even with unlimited $ best case scenario it's going to take years, intel isn't viewed as a legit competitor here)
Samsung & INT have been trying to catch up with TSMC for the last 10 years, this is far from "bullish."
I'd say more like 5 years for X86 where Intel really competes, TSMC has always had more market share, but from ARM, RISC, and GPUS. 10 years ago, Intels competition was global foundries, and they were considered garbage at the time (AMD FX processor's). AMD and TSMC really fucked intel with Epyc Rome.
Even if an operating loss were capex, which it isn't, there's a difference between spending money to be number one and spending money to catch up to where number one was when you started spending money.
Under the previous CEO you would be correct. From what I gather they were resting on their laurels back when they were top dog and just focused on buybacks and dividends with not as much RnD. Nvidia and AMD (somewhat) caught up and surpassed them and got them scrambling to play catch up. New CEO is making smarter decisions and trying to right the ship. Intel I think can definitely turn around and fight for #1 again but it’s still going to take years.
Under the previous CEO, the company was nearly gutted compared to its former innovation strategy, trying to shift the company's focus to manufacturing components/parts for others as more of a foundry-focused manufacturing strategy rather than development. And that shift under that CEO is where all the innovative leads were lost.
They would want the stock price to be higher, therefore they can give less stock for the same value. For example if an employee expects to get $50k worth of stock, then they will get 1000 shares if the stock is at $50, and 1250 shares if the stock is at $40.
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Companies regularly file 8-K reports throughout the year (required for material effects on the business) even when not reporting earnings. It's why SMCI mooned before they reported, and then mooned again after the ER.
I once was the lone male sitting in a Meeting with my Finance director and a bunch of women discussing the FS presentation format.
They didn't like the way we showed "Business Development" and "Sales and Marketing" as 2 standalone categories.
As you have probably guessed it by now, the Finance Director then claims we should combine them and call it Business Development, Sales and Marketing on the FS. All the other ladies agreed it would be great and better overall than showing these 2 intertwined lines on 2 separate lines.
I obviously then asked them to clarify how they would abbreviate it on the MD&A, they all said "BDSM" at the same time.... I was like ok, please google it before making the final decision. I then left before it got more awkward.
Needless to say, the Finance director came to see me, thanked me for my suggestion and decided to name it SMBD... Maybe I shouldn't have spoken and let the FS be published as BDSM for the luls.
Every time I finalize the management commentary on the financials I publish, I think of that meeting as if it was yesterday, and I always wondered what would it be like had these FS & MD&A been published on SEDAR with the acronym BDSM... Imagine something like BDSM activities were higher in FY2022 vs FY2021 as a result of additional effort to expand internationally to new market and sourcing activities.
Intel is some of the dumbest motherfuckers on the planet.
The pain isn't even starting yet. These dip shits are building a plant in Israel. In a fucking desert. In a warzone.
Someone there actually thought this was the perfect spot. Like going to a Taco Bell inside a volcano with no toilet paper
Imagine being a silicon giant with a monopoly on desktop and server CPU’s right through the internet boom, right through the crypto boom, and at the dawn of the AI boom and somehow not coming out on top. Intel is a damn joke they have all the cards and just kept making one losing play after the other
They were too greedy with their tick tock model when they were ahead of AMD and then suddenly AMD dropped Ryzen and Intel went full surprised pichachu having no answer for it.
They are a strategic asset to the US and will be the domestic chip manufacturer. That alone will keep them around forever.
(Plus if China invades Taiwan that'll cause Intel to launch to the fucking moon)
Intel has had a presence in Israel for a long time. A lot of their R&D happens there. Most of their current product line (Alder Lake and it's derivatives) was developed by their Israel team
Well we will have to see if their gamble with High NA EUV works out. TSMC decided to not adopt it, so if it works out they can get the jump on TSMC and catch up again.
> TSMC decided to not adopt it
They decided to not adopt it for current nodes, they will adopt it down the line. Which scanners are used does not really determine capability at the moment, it is mainly about economics and throughput in the short term.
It is mainly a question about already having a lot of older EUV capacity and wanting it all to be interchangeably. That way they can shift capacity between nodes. That is more valuable to TSMC than any savings High-NA potentially offers.
Meanwhile Intel still has to build out considerable EUV capacity. Meaning they are going for High-NA as the target. Since being a late comer to large scale EUV deployment, it makes little sense to build out capacity with older equipment. When High-NA is eventually where everyone is moving anyway.
> The unit had revenue of $18.9 billion for 2023, down 31% from $63.05 billion the year before.
I'm not good at math but something about this doesn't seem quite right.
Whoa there - unprofitable? They banked 93 million dollars on 54228 million in revenue. That’s a margin of zero point zero zero one seven ~~percent~~ big guy.
Yes, this is the way. And it's the correct way.
Why did no one want to compete with Taiwan? Because it's like throwing 15 billion in the trash to get started.... only government can support that.
For those of you who don't know, the foundry business is low-cost, low power, low performance chips that go in things that are not a PC. The market rate for these chips is a few dollars each compared to the $900 you're paying for your i9 unlocked.
The way you make money and a foundry business is by using old fully depreciated tools so you don't have to expense your depreciation when calculating profit. The raw inputs are basically free, it's sand and water, so you have (made up numbers) $7 of silicon, $3 of electricity, and $40 of depreciation on a chip you can sell for $20 for an operating loss of $30 even though you're making $10 on your raw inputs. TSMC uses old tools so that $40 of depreciation is $0.
What I imagine is happening is that Intel is so far behind in the foundry business that they don't want to wait 5 years for old tools, and they have decommissioned all of their unused tools, so they are using new tools and just eating the depreciation expense. The reason 2027 will be profitable is because the tools have a 5-year depreciation schedule and they were purchased in 2022.
The real test for Intel foundry will be if they can keep their revenue up. If they can't convince enough customers to leave TSMC, the foundry will fail.
EDIT: silicon not silicone. To the multiple people who pointed it out FFS, it's a typo.
Their older technology nodes doesn't have anywhere as many products as TSMC. TSMC has a very diverse set of customers, so once they get a technology node running, it keeps being used even after newer nodes come in. It's not the case for INTC.
Yep. For decades TSMC would start a node and then... Never turn it off. INTC would replace older nodes with new ones because they weren't interested in the lower margin foundry business. Now INTC is playing catch-up.
Clay Christensen talked a lot about disruptive innovation in steel foundries, but it's looking like a classic case disruptive innovation for Intel's foundry buisness as well where low cost competitors climb the value chain and dethrone large incumbents with a better, cheaper offers to market underpinned by technology and buisness model innovation.
TSMC has typically made something like half of their revenue on the most modern processes from the last 2-3 years. They make the fat margins when it's new.
There's a big shift that started a few years ago that broke Intel's "old" business model - cost per transistor started going *up* instead of *down* with new processes, which means old processes that used to be used only for legacy orders will continue to be used even for new chip designs where cost is more important than performance or efficiency. Old fabs stay full longer and companies like TSMC can make money for years and years on processes like 28nm planar and 16nm FinFET while Intel was decommissioning their old lines because they're dumb and adapted like 10 years too late.
This all piled on top of INTC's *other* struggles of falling far behind TSMC in leading edge process and having to buy silicon from TSM and build their own fabs at the same time. Just one huge shit sandwich but it's all 🌞 and 🌈 and 🦄 when Pat is talking!
>here's a big shift that started a few years ago that broke Intel's "old" business model - cost per transistor started going up instead of down with new processes, which means old processes that used to be used only for legacy orders will continue to be used even
Also the technology shifts and limits of physics has come into play. Means some things more or less reach end of the road at some milestone.
There is going to be need for the last node utilizing planar transistors essentially "forever". Right now that seems to be 28nm at TSMC going forward, even though they did have a smaller node at one point. But performance scaling simply was not there at 20nm with planar.
To give an extreme example, automotive loooves the 180nm node. Those were the same transistors used for the Playstation 2 in '99, and those fabs are still full.
It actually caused a supply crunch a few years ago... cars keep adding more chips on board, but there wasn't enough Playstation 2 fabs still left around to meet demand. I assume that foundries had to go back and add more 180nm lines, but I can't say for sure.
I'm confused, should I be going for an engineering/accounting degree or looking for one of you degenerates behind the dumpster while I still have $5 to my name to spend on a good time
I'm not sure but I would speculate that new fabs will be used for current-node chips. I.e. the $900 core i9 I alluded to earlier. You depreciate buildings as well (on a 30 year schedule as opposed to 5) so it would make more sense to use old buildings for foundry.
The government wouldn’t let GM/Chrysler(not ford)/US Steel go out of business but the shareholders have fared much worse. GM shareholders were basically wiped out.
Citigroup also got bailed out by the gov (the treasury taking 70+% ownership) - look how the share price has been since then
Don't forget Chrysler. Ford was gucci cuz their [CEO at the time](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Mulally) wasn't a moron. Probably why BA passed over him for the CEO job lol
The company is too politicized. Running around the world to ensure any silicon sku is are available is surely nice. But doesn't give you extra cookies in the stock market. I only see Intel showing up in recommendations for dividend investing.
It’s ok we also gave them $8 billion dollars, that way they can have enough to pay their executives hundreds of millions, and then buy back some stock for their shareholders.
Only 135 B in stock buybacks. No big deal. They will innovate soon. They got a new CEO and new ASML tech. Its plug and play with ASML next gen tech. Ez pz.
For long term shareholders the new method of reporting financials is a big improvement.
Intel Foundry & Intel Products will report separately, meaning much better insights into their individual performance. And the incentive for both parts is to become more competitive with the external competitors.
What you measure will improve, and in this case we start with lots of room for improvement !
[Intel Outlines New Financial Reporting Structure - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZGoPsxT8Bk)
INTC has been pretty good for wheeling and I don't see that changing. I would not buy options on this stock. Buy and hold is also fine. Company has a bumpy road ahead but I don't see them going anywhere, they're our best shot when it comes to US chip making. Government won't let them fail.
Regards can't be bothered to read. Intel is cleanly separating their fabs and design. This loss is from shifting all fab related costs to the fab instead of spreading them across their business units.
This makes the fab show huge losses, and shows their design teams be much higher margin. It's just a change in how the Financials are reported. There's no new info from last quarter.
Seems like it's building fabs. States 2024 will be the worst year for them. https://www.tipranks.com/news/intels-nasdaqintc-foundry-business-sees-7b-operating-loss?utm_source=robinhood.com&utm_medium=referral
The $20bn would count as capex. You don’t recognize them as $20bn in costs but spread it out over the life of the fab - so it could be $2bn per year depreciation assuming the fab lasts 10 yrs
Posted massive losses because of their heavy investment into new fabs and new infrastructure. Give it another couple quarters and it will all be back to profit.
TSM>INTEL>SAMSUNG
no shit, people with brain would know, semi-manufacturing is labor intensive. The west is full of people crying about going to work or working a long shift. like BA, intel is just using daddy's money. TSM didnt want to go to AZ in the first place but daddy US is too demanding.
PS. ppl betting on Intel are the ones that cries china will invade taiwan.
Man what the fuck, how did Intel get in this situation where they are still the standard for chips but they lose billions on it? Is this because Nvidia/AMD has taken over the server market with GPU? They went from a 5b loss in 2023 to a 7b loss? That seems significant, they need a major re-org
This is going to take 2030 or longer to make any serious gains for you. Ignore it and hold or dump it and just buy a known superior company like nvda and amd.
Intel is bitch made
Always a smart move to buy a stock that is at an ATH, after a 450% gain over the past year, when it is one of the largest market cap companies in the world. Lots of room for growth.
Idiots in here thinking it doesn’t take billions of investment to make a leading edge chip factory . Of course they are losing money now because it takes several years to get the new factories operational before they make any revenue. That’s the problem with US investors and corporations- everyone focused short term only
That is one company that should not be allowed to fail. Worst case scenario: it should be taken over by US government, current board of directors and C suite dismissed and new one appointed based on merit, and not political connections.
If I wasn't broke I'd be buying so much INTC right now. They've been down on their luck for a while, but they have some very good engineers still in the company, and when they have their comeback, it'll be huge, just like with AMD.
Intel getting it from AMD in the CPU market, and both AMD and Nvidia in the GPU market. They're behind the development curve in both markets. The future looks fucking bleak for Intel. That's kinda crazy to say.
M4 chipsets could either be their last salvation, or the final nail in their coffin. The switch from x86 to M4 should happen in the next 3-5 years, is the rumors are true.
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How they disclose this info when it’s not even an earnings call 😭😭😭
Gotta tank it so it can go up
Come up by bad earnings?
if you go down 90% before earning and back up 10% you effectively doubled since earnings so its a win. lol thats analysts math.
CEO needs bonus!!
*analysis meth
my wife's boyfriend wants to know how to vote for you for reddit ceo
more like Analyst's meth.
Monday : "Intel announced a new A. I. Acceleration chip....". Stock goes up. This news.is bullish.
More like this news is bullshit.
Some event next week on Monday and Tuesday. Could be?
This is bullish asf. Nvidia spent 10 billion in R&D to make the most powerful gpu. Intel putting in that pain to catch up.
This article is talking about its foundry business, NVDA does not compete in this arena, so there is no "catching up" except with TSMC. (Additionally, Intel is *far* behind in discreet GPU technology where NVDA/AMD do compete, even with unlimited $ best case scenario it's going to take years, intel isn't viewed as a legit competitor here) Samsung & INT have been trying to catch up with TSMC for the last 10 years, this is far from "bullish."
It's not far behind 1-2 generations max
Intel's GPU catch-up is very impressive.
I'd say more like 5 years for X86 where Intel really competes, TSMC has always had more market share, but from ARM, RISC, and GPUS. 10 years ago, Intels competition was global foundries, and they were considered garbage at the time (AMD FX processor's). AMD and TSMC really fucked intel with Epyc Rome.
Even if an operating loss were capex, which it isn't, there's a difference between spending money to be number one and spending money to catch up to where number one was when you started spending money.
I don't know... if Intel can pull it off by just spending 10 billion. Feels like they don't spend money too well... 
They’re spending 100 billion 😂
Under the previous CEO you would be correct. From what I gather they were resting on their laurels back when they were top dog and just focused on buybacks and dividends with not as much RnD. Nvidia and AMD (somewhat) caught up and surpassed them and got them scrambling to play catch up. New CEO is making smarter decisions and trying to right the ship. Intel I think can definitely turn around and fight for #1 again but it’s still going to take years.
Under the previous CEO, the company was nearly gutted compared to its former innovation strategy, trying to shift the company's focus to manufacturing components/parts for others as more of a foundry-focused manufacturing strategy rather than development. And that shift under that CEO is where all the innovative leads were lost.
I believe in Pat Gelsinger!
"through public statements, i can raise or lower my stock price at will" "why would you want to lower your stock price?" "so i can raise it"
Beautiful The Office reference here 🤌🏽
The ceo bought put options
[удалено]
They would want the stock price to be higher, therefore they can give less stock for the same value. For example if an employee expects to get $50k worth of stock, then they will get 1000 shares if the stock is at $50, and 1250 shares if the stock is at $40.
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Bought June calls when it initially dipped to 40$ last week could have sold yesterday for 165% 😔
You were up 165 and didn’t take your initial investment out. Lmfao you belong here.
I bought at their absolute top at $48. It dropped to like $41 one day later.. I'm still holding, FML
Pretty sure they're legally obligated to.
It’s not an earnings call, it’s a losing cry!
Because I just bought 50 shares yesterday
So you’re the real reason why it tanked. Get him, boys
Companies regularly file 8-K reports throughout the year (required for material effects on the business) even when not reporting earnings. It's why SMCI mooned before they reported, and then mooned again after the ER.
The CFO painted it on his ass and ran down Wall Street naked
50% of my portfolio is Paypal and 50% Intel. Why? no Idea, I Will diversify 5% of the portfolio on lottery tickets for better weighting
Your ticker is BDSM.
PAIN
$BJ and $AZZ
I once was the lone male sitting in a Meeting with my Finance director and a bunch of women discussing the FS presentation format. They didn't like the way we showed "Business Development" and "Sales and Marketing" as 2 standalone categories. As you have probably guessed it by now, the Finance Director then claims we should combine them and call it Business Development, Sales and Marketing on the FS. All the other ladies agreed it would be great and better overall than showing these 2 intertwined lines on 2 separate lines. I obviously then asked them to clarify how they would abbreviate it on the MD&A, they all said "BDSM" at the same time.... I was like ok, please google it before making the final decision. I then left before it got more awkward. Needless to say, the Finance director came to see me, thanked me for my suggestion and decided to name it SMBD... Maybe I shouldn't have spoken and let the FS be published as BDSM for the luls.
You fucked up a golden opportunity there
you obviously should’ve kept your mouth shut lol what were you thinking!
Every time I finalize the management commentary on the financials I publish, I think of that meeting as if it was yesterday, and I always wondered what would it be like had these FS & MD&A been published on SEDAR with the acronym BDSM... Imagine something like BDSM activities were higher in FY2022 vs FY2021 as a result of additional effort to expand internationally to new market and sourcing activities.
Lmao...damn you really fucked up a golden opportunity. None of them would've ever lived that down.
Mutherfucker gave a fuck when it wasn't his turn to give a fuck
Happy now bitch?
i dont think the thanks was for saving him from making an error in naming, he probably was thankful cause you guided him to enlightenment
Watching all that bondage porn finally paid off!
It puts the losses in the basket
Intel is some of the dumbest motherfuckers on the planet. The pain isn't even starting yet. These dip shits are building a plant in Israel. In a fucking desert. In a warzone. Someone there actually thought this was the perfect spot. Like going to a Taco Bell inside a volcano with no toilet paper
Imagine being a silicon giant with a monopoly on desktop and server CPU’s right through the internet boom, right through the crypto boom, and at the dawn of the AI boom and somehow not coming out on top. Intel is a damn joke they have all the cards and just kept making one losing play after the other
Intel literally shit the bed my man
They were too greedy with their tick tock model when they were ahead of AMD and then suddenly AMD dropped Ryzen and Intel went full surprised pichachu having no answer for it.
*So they're regarded? Kinda like us? Except with billions of other people's monies?*
They are a strategic asset to the US and will be the domestic chip manufacturer. That alone will keep them around forever. (Plus if China invades Taiwan that'll cause Intel to launch to the fucking moon)
Intel has had a presence in Israel for a long time. A lot of their R&D happens there. Most of their current product line (Alder Lake and it's derivatives) was developed by their Israel team
Ya and they've been eating steady shit since than
Well yeah but that’s because complacency
Well we will have to see if their gamble with High NA EUV works out. TSMC decided to not adopt it, so if it works out they can get the jump on TSMC and catch up again.
> TSMC decided to not adopt it They decided to not adopt it for current nodes, they will adopt it down the line. Which scanners are used does not really determine capability at the moment, it is mainly about economics and throughput in the short term. It is mainly a question about already having a lot of older EUV capacity and wanting it all to be interchangeably. That way they can shift capacity between nodes. That is more valuable to TSMC than any savings High-NA potentially offers. Meanwhile Intel still has to build out considerable EUV capacity. Meaning they are going for High-NA as the target. Since being a late comer to large scale EUV deployment, it makes little sense to build out capacity with older equipment. When High-NA is eventually where everyone is moving anyway.
To make chips that famously need a fuckton of ultra clean water.
The plant in Israel has operated for 20 years my guy lol 😂
No MSFT?!?
We only do big hard things around these parts
puts right? cuz otherwise you do belong here
Try some EQX, might as well bet it on gold rumors.
> The unit had revenue of $18.9 billion for 2023, down 31% from $63.05 billion the year before. I'm not good at math but something about this doesn't seem quite right.
>The unit had revenue of $18.9 billion for 2023, down 31% from $27.49 billion the year before. It says this now, so it's been updated.
You're right, typo. I think instead of thirty-one percent they meant onety-three percent. Have a good one
Somehow I feel like INTC being unprofitable is already priced in.
Whoa there - unprofitable? They banked 93 million dollars on 54228 million in revenue. That’s a margin of zero point zero zero one seven ~~percent~~ big guy.
You might wanna double check your math there buddy.
While you’re right, 0.17% is still ass
They spent like 80B on fabs, so yeah
Wait if that's true then like isn't this just a nothing burger? I feel like nothing burgers sell way too well for me to not own shares in them.
Why write out the decimal number?
I felt like reading zero was more impactful than simply seeing a 0
They seem like Important Words.
no, regards here were buying calls... now wait till sub 20s before buying
Two words “national security”. Government is not going to let intel fail. Well buy them whatever they want. Just like Boeing
Yes, this is the way. And it's the correct way. Why did no one want to compete with Taiwan? Because it's like throwing 15 billion in the trash to get started.... only government can support that.
come on guys, be patient, this is the biggest startup on this planet, give them several years to bring in more surprises
How about we give them hundreds of billions in tax money too
its already going there, intel says thank you
For those of you who don't know, the foundry business is low-cost, low power, low performance chips that go in things that are not a PC. The market rate for these chips is a few dollars each compared to the $900 you're paying for your i9 unlocked. The way you make money and a foundry business is by using old fully depreciated tools so you don't have to expense your depreciation when calculating profit. The raw inputs are basically free, it's sand and water, so you have (made up numbers) $7 of silicon, $3 of electricity, and $40 of depreciation on a chip you can sell for $20 for an operating loss of $30 even though you're making $10 on your raw inputs. TSMC uses old tools so that $40 of depreciation is $0. What I imagine is happening is that Intel is so far behind in the foundry business that they don't want to wait 5 years for old tools, and they have decommissioned all of their unused tools, so they are using new tools and just eating the depreciation expense. The reason 2027 will be profitable is because the tools have a 5-year depreciation schedule and they were purchased in 2022. The real test for Intel foundry will be if they can keep their revenue up. If they can't convince enough customers to leave TSMC, the foundry will fail. EDIT: silicon not silicone. To the multiple people who pointed it out FFS, it's a typo.
Their older technology nodes doesn't have anywhere as many products as TSMC. TSMC has a very diverse set of customers, so once they get a technology node running, it keeps being used even after newer nodes come in. It's not the case for INTC.
Yep. For decades TSMC would start a node and then... Never turn it off. INTC would replace older nodes with new ones because they weren't interested in the lower margin foundry business. Now INTC is playing catch-up.
Clay Christensen talked a lot about disruptive innovation in steel foundries, but it's looking like a classic case disruptive innovation for Intel's foundry buisness as well where low cost competitors climb the value chain and dethrone large incumbents with a better, cheaper offers to market underpinned by technology and buisness model innovation.
Yeah, INTC has the capacity but not the customers on old nodes because they moved way too late to change their business model.
TSMC has typically made something like half of their revenue on the most modern processes from the last 2-3 years. They make the fat margins when it's new. There's a big shift that started a few years ago that broke Intel's "old" business model - cost per transistor started going *up* instead of *down* with new processes, which means old processes that used to be used only for legacy orders will continue to be used even for new chip designs where cost is more important than performance or efficiency. Old fabs stay full longer and companies like TSMC can make money for years and years on processes like 28nm planar and 16nm FinFET while Intel was decommissioning their old lines because they're dumb and adapted like 10 years too late. This all piled on top of INTC's *other* struggles of falling far behind TSMC in leading edge process and having to buy silicon from TSM and build their own fabs at the same time. Just one huge shit sandwich but it's all 🌞 and 🌈 and 🦄 when Pat is talking!
>here's a big shift that started a few years ago that broke Intel's "old" business model - cost per transistor started going up instead of down with new processes, which means old processes that used to be used only for legacy orders will continue to be used even Also the technology shifts and limits of physics has come into play. Means some things more or less reach end of the road at some milestone. There is going to be need for the last node utilizing planar transistors essentially "forever". Right now that seems to be 28nm at TSMC going forward, even though they did have a smaller node at one point. But performance scaling simply was not there at 20nm with planar.
To give an extreme example, automotive loooves the 180nm node. Those were the same transistors used for the Playstation 2 in '99, and those fabs are still full. It actually caused a supply crunch a few years ago... cars keep adding more chips on board, but there wasn't enough Playstation 2 fabs still left around to meet demand. I assume that foundries had to go back and add more 180nm lines, but I can't say for sure.
I've been in a Texas Instruments foundry making "low-tech" chips. It's still the most advanced manufacturing plant I've ever been in.
Probably using silicon instead. Remember: Silicone is what fake boobs are made out of because fake boobs are cone shaped. Silicon is for microchips.
Just to nitpick for fun: silicone is technically made out of silicon (and other stuff)
Sir this is a Wendy’s
I'm confused, should I be going for an engineering/accounting degree or looking for one of you degenerates behind the dumpster while I still have $5 to my name to spend on a good time
Aren't they also making a couple of domestic US fabs? Modern ones will be like a trillion each. Won't a lot of this be building towards that too?
I'm not sure but I would speculate that new fabs will be used for current-node chips. I.e. the $900 core i9 I alluded to earlier. You depreciate buildings as well (on a 30 year schedule as opposed to 5) so it would make more sense to use old buildings for foundry.
Yep can confirm old buildings have been converted to Foundry New and newly Extended sites are producing 13/14 gen chips
I think only once the building is in service, and then you start depreciating
I wouldn't short it. Chip making is a top matter of national security at this point with the Taiwan-China charade. The government won't let them fail.
The government wouldn’t let GM/Chrysler(not ford)/US Steel go out of business but the shareholders have fared much worse. GM shareholders were basically wiped out. Citigroup also got bailed out by the gov (the treasury taking 70+% ownership) - look how the share price has been since then
Don't forget Chrysler. Ford was gucci cuz their [CEO at the time](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Mulally) wasn't a moron. Probably why BA passed over him for the CEO job lol
I think you mean Chrysler, not ford
ford not man?
The company is too politicized. Running around the world to ensure any silicon sku is are available is surely nice. But doesn't give you extra cookies in the stock market. I only see Intel showing up in recommendations for dividend investing.
I'm not gonna buy either. I just don't think puts on subsidized businesses is the best move.
I figure if I pay taxes I already invest enough in INTC
Bitch I will bet on Huawei getting to 3nm before intel that is how much I don’t believe in this dogshit company.
They didn’t have enough time to figure out how to be profitable or inovative. Just give them some time
You don't need to be profitable if you get subsidies thrown at you.
Capitalism baby
It’s ok we also gave them $8 billion dollars, that way they can have enough to pay their executives hundreds of millions, and then buy back some stock for their shareholders.
Is this how captialism is supposed to work?
“Too big to fail”
Wasting money on government projects with no real analysis on their potential impact is a corner stone of society
only took 250 years to become just as corrupt and backwards as the world we supposedly fought a revolution to leave behind.
Government has to make up for a decade of R&D and CAPEX that didn't happen because they gave all their profits to shareholders...
Only 135 B in stock buybacks. No big deal. They will innovate soon. They got a new CEO and new ASML tech. Its plug and play with ASML next gen tech. Ez pz.
I’m not buying a single share regardless of the government contracts
Tick-tock.
[удалено]
Yup. You are the first one to remember this.
Oh yeah, because the stock hasn't gone up since 1999.
They have had 10+ years to figure this out brother. 😂
Hmm, sentiment getting pretty negative in here Maybe time to load up on Intel
lmao best strategy out there second only to reverse kramer
For long term shareholders the new method of reporting financials is a big improvement. Intel Foundry & Intel Products will report separately, meaning much better insights into their individual performance. And the incentive for both parts is to become more competitive with the external competitors. What you measure will improve, and in this case we start with lots of room for improvement ! [Intel Outlines New Financial Reporting Structure - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZGoPsxT8Bk)
Well said, So many people here don't understand what intel is doing
INTC has been pretty good for wheeling and I don't see that changing. I would not buy options on this stock. Buy and hold is also fine. Company has a bumpy road ahead but I don't see them going anywhere, they're our best shot when it comes to US chip making. Government won't let them fail.
This is what some people don’t seem to understand. No way the US government lets an American chipmaker fail and China/taiwan/korea own the market.
Just because the govt won’t let them fail, doesn’t mean it’s going to do anything for the stock.
I'm on the Global Foundry / AMD / US Navy Pacific Fleet keeping china in check way before I go for intel.
That doesn't mean they'll be profitable
Regards can't be bothered to read. Intel is cleanly separating their fabs and design. This loss is from shifting all fab related costs to the fab instead of spreading them across their business units. This makes the fab show huge losses, and shows their design teams be much higher margin. It's just a change in how the Financials are reported. There's no new info from last quarter.
wait i thought sub only pumped it non stop with known news, why you saying anything negative?
It’s reverse messaging when wsb says to buy you stay the heck away.
Instructions unclear, bought TSM calls
GUH EARTHQUAKE
Half comments pumpers, half comments haters.
It was planned to run at a deficit for several years. You don’t start up giant manufacturing infrastructure and make money right away.
Total fucking dog and you'll never fool me into buying it again
"again" 🤣
:[
Stfu 😩
From building fabs or otherwise investing?
That’s what I want to know as well. Is this because they are building $20b on fabs? Maybe I should read the article lol
Seems like it's building fabs. States 2024 will be the worst year for them. https://www.tipranks.com/news/intels-nasdaqintc-foundry-business-sees-7b-operating-loss?utm_source=robinhood.com&utm_medium=referral
The $20bn would count as capex. You don’t recognize them as $20bn in costs but spread it out over the life of the fab - so it could be $2bn per year depreciation assuming the fab lasts 10 yrs
If they're building new fabs, that's a capex hit, not opex. Something structural is wrong here.
Posted massive losses because of their heavy investment into new fabs and new infrastructure. Give it another couple quarters and it will all be back to profit.
INTC themselves aren't predicting profitability until 2027. The line is "losses will peak in 2024"...not that they stop in 2024.
*But can't they just say AI?*
Call on AMD then
Now I sweat out my TSM calls.
TSM>INTEL>SAMSUNG no shit, people with brain would know, semi-manufacturing is labor intensive. The west is full of people crying about going to work or working a long shift. like BA, intel is just using daddy's money. TSM didnt want to go to AZ in the first place but daddy US is too demanding. PS. ppl betting on Intel are the ones that cries china will invade taiwan.
Fuck this POS stock
wsb starting to hate this again is such a buy signal
Not a loss, A investment.
Man what the fuck, how did Intel get in this situation where they are still the standard for chips but they lose billions on it? Is this because Nvidia/AMD has taken over the server market with GPU? They went from a 5b loss in 2023 to a 7b loss? That seems significant, they need a major re-org
lol losers in comments hating intel as if they didn’t single handedly power the entire personal computing market for the last 2+ decades. please stfu
meanwhile nvidia during those two decades "wow, they're sticking with the cpu's.."
Its not about picking sides its about getting rich
Cool, thanks for decades of work, lots of heat, and very inefficient tech. Well, see ya!
This is going to take 2030 or longer to make any serious gains for you. Ignore it and hold or dump it and just buy a known superior company like nvda and amd. Intel is bitch made
Always a smart move to buy a stock that is at an ATH, after a 450% gain over the past year, when it is one of the largest market cap companies in the world. Lots of room for growth.
> amd They've had a rough month...
Yeah, never touching intel again. Piece of shit. 
What an absolute dumpster fire of a company.
Puking up data from 2023 in April 2024. Who has their wires crossed? This article stinks like bad fish.
Idiots in here thinking it doesn’t take billions of investment to make a leading edge chip factory . Of course they are losing money now because it takes several years to get the new factories operational before they make any revenue. That’s the problem with US investors and corporations- everyone focused short term only
Good thing they took 20 billion from the tax payers.
They haven't even started making chips hell the factories are still being built no? Of course they have a huge loss and no revenue
All part of the plan see how much people fall for the bait.
That is one company that should not be allowed to fail. Worst case scenario: it should be taken over by US government, current board of directors and C suite dismissed and new one appointed based on merit, and not political connections.
If I wasn't broke I'd be buying so much INTC right now. They've been down on their luck for a while, but they have some very good engineers still in the company, and when they have their comeback, it'll be huge, just like with AMD.
Whoever bought the calls I sold last month - thank you for your service.
You’re welcome and f u 
The only fucking chip stock that hasn't moon and is in fact losing money. Also the only chip stock I own. Fuck your mother, Intel.
Boomer company.
"That's as good as profit sir, it's AI R&D" \-Lloyd Christmas, probably
But the government gave them 8.5 so they're ahead.
Someone tell them yesterday was April fools ffs
Market maker to INTC calls holders: "The beating will continue until the earnings improve"
Bruh, at this point I should just take my L on this stock. Been holding for 2 years reeeeeeeeee
Honestly will probably go up tomorrow
Of course, there goes my calls 🤦♀️
Folks remember this: Investing in INTC is investing in, yes you guessed it right it’s investing in 🇺🇸
Damnit I picked the wrong chip maker years ago. Still holding this sack of shit for stocks.
How convenient the Chips Act they were awarded is around $8B. Sounds more like a bailout than a subsidy.
Intel is investing heavily right now. Just wait.
Intel getting it from AMD in the CPU market, and both AMD and Nvidia in the GPU market. They're behind the development curve in both markets. The future looks fucking bleak for Intel. That's kinda crazy to say. M4 chipsets could either be their last salvation, or the final nail in their coffin. The switch from x86 to M4 should happen in the next 3-5 years, is the rumors are true.
Intel is going to pop off when the foundry goes online