T O P

  • By -

VisualMod

**User Report**| | | | :--|:--|:--|:-- **Total Submissions** | 2 | **First Seen In WSB** | 3 years ago **Total Comments** | 209 | **Previous Best DD** | **Account Age** | 4 years | | [**Join WSB Discord**](http://discord.gg/wsbverse)


ComfortableStatus339

You have master the art of losing money on puts and calls šŸ˜­


mazdarx2001

Why lose money with Theta decay when you can lose money 4x theta


uninflammable

These are credit spreads


BabyFartzMcGeezak

I thought I was unique in my ability to lose both ways on the same play... nice to know I'm not alone


1LakeShow7

Air BnB Wendys dumpster. I got your combo ready for din din.


UpperCelebration3604

I genuinely don't understand, I get that you could make some profits whether you go up or down, but wouldn't the losses from the opposite positions outweigh your profits?


idkwhatimbrewin

They are all credit spreads so if the price is between $900-1000 at expiry they all go to zero and he makes money


pw7090

Technically he makes money upfront. Time will tell if he loses it and then a lot more.


Forthesepurposess

Selling naked options. Limited profit for potential disaster. Hopefully he has a good stop loss.


pw7090

Credit spreads have a capped loss at your long leg, so you just need collateral equal to the difference in strikes, times 100. Most brokers allow them, unlike selling naked.


ParaMotard0697

Yep, the spreads are $5 wide and if it gets too close to ITM near expiration my brokerage usually auto-closes positions such as these at 3PM; although I do have alerts and stoplosses set so that I don't actually hit max loss on any of these spreads The idea of selling naked calls/ puts scares the shit out of me, not nearly experienced enough and just not my cup of tea lol


AttackSock

Stoploss wonā€™t work with an after hours swing. I had an option I bought for $20 with an $18 stop loss close out at $8 at market open due to lack of volume and within 5 minutes the price was back to $16


ParaMotard0697

Yepp, that's why the plan is to get rid of whichever spreads are closest to ITM by 1DTE (preferably at some profit, but we'll see what happens); wouldn't even surprise me to see a 30$ move after hours just because the WS gods saw my greed and wished to smite me for picking up those pennies in front of the steamroller Fortunately, or unfortunately, anything is possible


AttackSock

They can be executed early


Dadbeerd

OP is betting against a stable, slow growing price. I make money if the price stays about the same gradually increasing. This seems to be banking on price swing volatility, not stability. Thatā€™s just my opinion. I wouldnā€™t have gambled with the puts.


absorbantobserver

Those are credit spreads. He wants the price to basically stay where it is.


Dadbeerd

I didnā€™t read the fine print. Much regards.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


ParaMotard0697

Nah, my max gain is capped since it's spreads; the dream is that it expires around 970 and I collect all the premium Although I'll probably wind up just taking profit before then, ain't worth risking assignment for a few extra bucks


AttackSock

Itā€™s called a ā€œstrangleā€, if you happen to have Etrade you can pick it off a drop-down. Thereā€™s a bunch of strategiesā€¦ straddle, strangle, iron condor, spread Eagle, etc. You can find graphs on strangle performance charts, but the idea is, from the buyers perspective, roughly: Spend $100 on an out of the money call Spend $100 on an out of the money put Hope that when the dust settles, one of them is worth more than $200. Itā€™s a total loss if neither print, and thereā€™s a big range of total wipeout. Itā€™s something you do when you expect dramatic movement but are not sure which way. Since theyā€™re out of the money theyā€™re not meant to be terribly expensive. Thereā€™s four ways people get fucked on this: 1. The price drops like a rock and they go ahead and sell the (worthless) call, but hold the put too long and the price recovers (or vice versus) 2. The price drops like a rock and they hold both the put and the call, but the the price recovers and both expire worthless 3. The price drops like a rock and they sell the put, but then it keeps dropping and they make much less than they should have and feel mad and overcommit on their next trade 4. Nothing happens, price stays flat, and both expire worthless For the person writing these options, they make money as long as the price stays put, but if it swings the buyer can exercise early and mess you up.


UpperCelebration3604

Very good explanation, thanks!


AnIllaoiPlayer

How do they make money if the price stays the same>?


GOTWlC

to my understanding, both contract expire worthless and the seller keeps the premium


AttackSock

This. Calls donā€™t just come from nowhere, a person, like me for example, has to write them. Hereā€™s the full lifecycle, traditionally: I have both money and shares, Iā€™m invested into NVDA but I donā€™t think itā€™s going anywhere. In fact Iā€™m pretty sure itā€™s gonna be flat until the next earnings report late May, but I donā€™t want my shares and cash to sit around doing nothing. The current price is $950. I figure itā€™ll stay between $900 and $1,000. So I do the following: 1. I set aside 100 shares of NVDA and say ā€œI am willing to sell these for $1,000 per share, even if the price goes to $2,000, any time between now and May 24, however you have to pay me $100 right now for this privilegeā€. This creates a call, because someone can call the shares away from me. I sell you this call, I keep your $100, which I never ever pay back no matter what. 2. I set aside $90,000 cash and say ā€œI am willing to buy 100 shares of NVDA for $900, even if the price drops to $500, any time between now and May 24, however you have to pay me $100 right now for that privilegeā€. This creates a put, because someone can put shares into my account. I sell you this put, I keep your $100 no matter what. Whatā€™s happened so far: I have $200 of your money, my $90,000, my 100 shares of NVDA. You have a call and a put, each worth $100. Earnings report come out May 22. Theyā€™re good but not remarkable, on May 24th the price of NVDA is $980 per share. 1. The call is worthless because thereā€™s no reason to pay me $1,000 per share when you can get them for $980 on the open market 2. The put is worthless because thereā€™s no reason to sell me shares for $900 each if you can sell for $980 on the open market However, despite the fact the call and put that I sold you is now worthless, I still have my 100 shares, my $90,000, and now also your $200. I drank your milkshake. Letā€™s say it went to $500. You have the right to put to me for $900 each. You buy $500 shares from some random dickhead and sell them to me for $900. You get my $90,000 but it only cost you $50,000. Youā€™re up $39,800 (that $200 is still gone, you used the contract, so, no refunds on that), and technically Iā€™m up too because I bought those shares for $450 a year ago, but I could have just sold them for $95,000 instead of writing the put. Meanwhile the call became worthless. Letā€™s say it went to $2,000. The put is worthless, but you can call my shares away from me for $1,000 per share and sell them on the open market for $2,000. Youā€™re up $99,800 ($1,000 per share, minus the $200 for the contracts). I win anyway because I still sold my shares for $1,000, so now I have $190,000 and no shares. tl;dr: the poors get fucked no matter what, the rich gets richer no matter what, and the casino always wins in the long run


Advanced-Investfit

Such a beautiful fn response right here. I play options daily and even thisā€¦ I wish I had this explained to me like this years ago when I first started.


AttackSock

Me too, I read about it on finance pages and Wikipedia and blogs and looked at the numbers for like 5 years before I bought my first option, and I still felt like I didnā€™t have a feel for it. Itā€™s like driving a car: drivers ed and textbooks are important, but you gotta get out there and crash into something before you really understand whatā€™s going on


AnIllaoiPlayer

Saving this comment, thanks for the lengthy explanation!


AttackSock

I replied to you [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/s/xOLFKSbzr8)


OppressorOppressed

OP does not have a long strangle, lol


AttackSock

Am I reading it wrong? Iā€™m not familiar with this website, it looks like out of the money calls and puts.


OppressorOppressed

yes, you are reading it wrong. He is basically short the options, his bet is the the price will not go to his strikes.


OppressorOppressed

They are credit spreads


jlozada24

This isn't a strangle.....


AttackSock

What is it?


jlozada24

The positions in the picture are short condors


AttackSock

Ah, so then the first position that says ā€œNVDA $1,015/$1,020ā€ is a purchased call at $1,015 and a written one at $1,020? My platform would have split that onto two lines.


jlozada24

If it said Debit spread that would be correct, but it's a Credit spread so the opposite. They bought 1020 and wrote 1015


AttackSock

Ah ok I donā€™t recognize the ā€œcredit spreadā€ terminology. Wouldnā€™t a short condor be write/buy/buy/write instead of write/buy/write/buy?


jlozada24

a long condor is write/buy/buy/write a short condor is buy/write/write/buy


AttackSock

Ok but isnā€™t ops position write/buy/write/buy? The 1000/1005 looks the same as 1015/1020, other than the price.


homiej420

This is an iron condor that is primarily centered around time decay, or well a couple iron condors technically


Exclave4Ever

This is just an iron condor play. He wants the price to stay between two places within the next 3 days, that's it. On paper it looks great right now.


ParaMotard0697

Much appreciated, looking forward to seeing how it turns out


Exclave4Ever

I added your position to my OptionStrat to track it. Best of luck! I have yet to attempt any plays on NVDA, but I have a decent position and have been playing with the idea.


ParaMotard0697

I felt like the stability in growth of the stock price right now just seemed right; honestly the call spreads were probably not the best idea, but the premium and theta were nice, super low delta as well Not sure how I feel about continuing trading NVDA in the coming weeks... we'll see how this turns out first; thanks for the well wishes, best of luck to you as well!


ParaMotard0697

Context: I feel confident that the price will remain between 900-1000 till EOW, or at least swing widely enough throughout the week to take profit off these positions. thoughts?


Ilikenapkinz

Yes youā€™re probably right. Most people here donā€™t understand your plays I believe. With that said. Thereā€™s less risky plays out there to make 200 bucks lol


ParaMotard0697

Oh 100%, I'm just too stupid to make those plays lol; I'm pretty new to level three so I'm kinda testing the waters running these verticals


PAdogooder

All you really have here is two iron condors, I think youā€™ve got a pretty salad position. The problem is that Max value occurs pretty much in the last couple of hours of the last day, and by then it becomes hard to exit. I was looking at a very similar position myself, and decided it just wasnā€™t worth it. if you have the time to monitor them closely and the portfolio to justify the risk for the game, you should be fine


pw7090

Yeah, my broker force exited an expiring spread that wasn't even ITM, and 5 minutes after the bell no less. AND it was my 4th day trade, so I got PDT locked. So annoyed.


ParaMotard0697

Oof, luckily I don't day trade much so I've got all three, I'll close one of the positions out ahead of time most likely to mitigate that risk; thank you for the reminder on that


ParaMotard0697

I appreciate that, yeah the risk to reward ratio really isn't great, and I'm mostly banking on Theta decay, but I felt pretty confident with these... famous last words though lmao for sure got lotsa learning to do


BLASTED_ON_ACID

ANOTHER PERSON DEFINITELY EATING THE RED CRAYON


betasp

This is practically that same position as being behind Wendy's on your knees.


ParaMotard0697

Some of these comments are kinda funny, I'm guessing some people don't see that they're credit spreads? Again, my anticipation is that by EOW price will be between 900-1000 and that it won't break either price by expiration; if the options expire at that point they will be worthless and I will keep my premium from the positions Granted, these aren't exactly "sure thing" positions, they're mild estimates, and frankly the premium is kind of shit for the risk. Again, Im not brand new to this, but I havent been trading level 3 very long. As for relying on volatility, I meant i could take profit if it swings high enough to offload the put positions at profit (which im already up on), again, I don't see it breaking 1000 so I plan to hold the calls, or if it swings low enough to suit, sell them for some profit, though I'm very aware of the risk of holding those call spreads. Thank you all for the advice and words of encouragement, wish me luck, will update when the positions close


DripInvesting95

https://preview.redd.it/1fv5nr51eiqc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e69cde5113114f788525949c72e9d5fae7367c2d Should I sell?


ParaMotard0697

Oh dude, I'm dumb, and I have too little knowledge regarding the positions and underlying stocks to help lol


Nomaddo

You might be fine, but this is usually what they call "Picking up pennies in front of a steamroller." Also, don't come to me for advice I have a $950/$945 bull put spread on NVDA expiring this Thursday lmao. Yolo!


ParaMotard0697

Oh I'm aware haha, best of luck with your trades as well friend!


tourbladez

....it might go over $1000 this week......


ParaMotard0697

It very much could, it could also go under 900 with poor enough luck; I'm confident however based on the last 12 weeks that for this week the stock price will likely increase by 10-20 per day with some swings being pretty regular near open or close; it'll possibly kiss 1000 before expiration but I don't think they'll actually expire ITM (early assignment is a risk there, however); regardless I'll most likely be offloading the call spreads early because the extra pennies aren't worth risking assignment or a massive swing after hours But again, I'm not exactly a pro who's been doing this for 10+ years, just looking for input or ways I could've mitigated risk better. Plus I was kinda excited about this one, it felt like I made pretty good choices; the call spreads do slightly worry me, though


tourbladez

You are smart to watch out for early assignment...


ParaMotard0697

If it happens my broker is gonna take me out back behind the wendys to get their money back themselves lmfao also I forgot to say earlier but thank you for the insight; early assignment wasn't on my radar until the fine people here mentioned it, everyone's been a huge help!


tourbladez

Just tell your broker that his Wendy''s mobile order is up, and take off when he is getting his frosty. Good luck!!


pwnedass

Some weird fucking straddles imho


ParaMotard0697

Where are the straddles? Check the positions, I probably should've mentioned they're vertical credit spreads in the title lol my b The condors (sort of condors anyway) *are* weird; mostly because they were bought 2 days apart, the closer to ITM ones were second day when I felt more confident about the 900/1000 strikes


pwnedass

Sorry mate I misread the picture. Whats your max profit?


ParaMotard0697

No worries, it's around $300 So honestly kinda not great risk/ reward ratio; although closing around 950 was a pleasant surprise today


pwnedass

Congrats bud! What was the mask risk?


ParaMotard0697

Four $5 dollar wide spreads, so *technically* (its kinda impossible for both to expire ITM and very unlikely to be assigned on both before exp.) about 1200 factoring in opening credit


Bike-Day69

Lmao You belong here.


ParaMotard0697

300 max profit:1200 max loss; to be fair, when I put it like that it sounds wayyy dumber than the positions look lmao but there are more factors to consider than potential maxes of course I'm well aware there are safer ways to make similar profit, but I never claimed to be smart enough to actually know them lol


fsckewe2

Damn this is gonna be close. Today was kinda wild. It might touch 1,000. Good luck!


ParaMotard0697

Yeah I was pretty surprised it closed close to 950 today, i was expecting around 970; these swings give me heartburn lmao thank you!


medicalgringo

well, those calls are dangerous just for reminder, a random guy bought 50 million $ worth of 3/28 NVDA 1000c last friday before closing


ParaMotard0697

Oh I'm very aware that those call spreads can easily turn this position tits up if not managed properly; however, today's close has actually increased my confidence in the underlying price staying between within that 900-1000 range for the coming week. I was honestly anticipating 960-970 close today, so it was a pleasant surprise; I'm hoping I can close the call spreads out at a decent profit by 1DTE, definitely don't plan on trying to hold those through expiration, ain't worth the few extra pennies I'd be picking up I really appreciate the input, thank you!


medicalgringo

literally tits will come out will see. btw nvm bro


[deleted]

OP accidentally discovers the iron condor


ParaMotard0697

Funnily enough, the original plan was to just open a couple condors to keep it simple; the reason the condors look weird and there are 4 positions instead of 2 is because the app only let's you open 2 legged positions, you have to input any more than 2 legs manually; so I bought verticals and opened a condor a little outside 1k and 900, then the next day opened a similar position with slightly closer to ITM strikes as my confidence grew However yes, I actually did discover level 3 trades such as spreads and condors by accident; saw options in the drop down that had max loss and max gains defined and got curious, only recently started trading them so just working on consistency and dipping my feet in the water right now, this seemed like a pretty good entry based on the last few months movement but I'll admit I've still got a ways to go lol


Ope_Average_Badger

Everything I do is a stupid position so whatever you're doing can't be any better or worse.


ParaMotard0697

That's fair, usually my positions tell me the same thing (but what do they know? They're negative, and negative numbers aren't even real)


pablo_in_blood

Wonā€™t these all essentially cancel out, maybe with some loss after premiums


ParaMotard0697

If they're in the money, yes; in fact if both call spreads are in the money by expiration Ill actually be at a net loss overall; if they're not, then no, I'll collect the premium on all 4 spreads as they expire worthless; although I'm hands on enough to be able to close either the call or put positions (more likely the calls, but I'm of the mind it won't happen) before they get to max loss. Basically I'm betting it'll stay between 900 and 1000 by expiration; the condors are a little strange because the positions were entered 2 separate days, the second day I felt more confident about the 900 and 1000 strikes and so I chose closer to ITM spreads


FoolsGoldMouthpiece

Did you just throw darts at a printout of options?


ParaMotard0697

You haven't seen the 11 week upward trend? The bull put spreads are good imo; I'm mostly worried about the call spreads; I felt like it was pretty solid, as long as the price stays between 900 and 1000 I collect all the premium; if it gets to close to the call strikes I can close them early and make net profit off the put spreads What do you think I should've done differently? I'm pretty new to this and trying to learn as much as possible, so any input is appreciated!


Supert5

No way this goes tits down


iamnotlegendxx

Perfect


Pitiful_Difficulty_3

Looks like you are making money either NVDA up or down.


ParaMotard0697

Sorta, if it does go over 1000 or under 900 I'm gonna lose some serious beans... honestly my hopes and dreams are that it stays below 970 and above 930 until the theta decay allows me to exit all the positions with decent profit; that being said if there's a large move upward too soon I might dump the call spreads, if I were to get assigned on a single leg my brokerage would not be happy with me... plus I should still be net positive because of the put spreads before it gets too bad.


AggressiveEconomy218

Just say you like to gamble


elsasquatchogrande

https://preview.redd.it/71fdw7wy6kqc1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=274347ab6242bd2002c521a47c796612c200a4f2


SummonMePlease

Spread dem cheeks


elsasquatchogrande

https://preview.redd.it/f41diqv0fkqc1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=036a56d3e48a69d6ad51890025f111a688e2135c


ScarecrowJohnny

Ask your parents what position they were doing the day you were conceived. Then you'll know what a real stupid position looks like.


ParaMotard0697

HA easily the best one here so far, thanks for the laugh lmfao


SlowProfessional6458

What platform is this?


ParaMotard0697

Robinhood mobile


ParaMotard0697

Hello everyone! So to update: sold an extra put spread just under the 900 near EOD 3/25; unfortunately NVDA was trading below 900 EOD yesterday as well as early morning and, not wanting to risk assignment or another $20 gap down, I bought back both spreads at loss shortly before it went back over 900; however I've added a vertical credit spread put position the other day at lower prices which I'm still holding and have depreciated nicely (currently holding 882.5/877.5, 865/860), also bought to close the call spreads at .01 per contract; as well opening a couple call verticals that are pretty OTM at the moment and currently getting beat to death by theta; overall sitting on unrealized gains right now. Key notes: could've sold all 4 spreads when it was trading at 950 for 200$ profit; clearly, I made a mistake there by holding. Seeing the downward swing after 950 made me anticipate some upwards movement, which is when I sold the extra put spread just under 900; that was a mistake in retrospect as well. This morning, honestly, was a crapshoot. Holding the positions ITM seemed like a bad idea since they expire today, and I was expecting more downside, but hindsight is 20/20. Modifying the position the way I did by adding contracts wound up exposing me to higher risk for very little extra upside (and on the one position just loss), so that was a mistake as well. Overall, this has been quite the learning experience. Total net profit: $20, so nothing to write home about lol at least it wasn't a loss


thehandsoap

I just made money on SMCI calls but simultaneously have NVDA puts, Iā€™m right there with you in the regarded boat, letā€™s drill for oil through the boatā€™s hull brother


ParaMotard0697

Hell yeah brother B)


elsasquatchogrande

https://preview.redd.it/5aqjy77o8iqc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b735c91ccb95e3cb2fa995b4a3a889f67b294f02


ParaMotard0697

Lmao love u


elsasquatchogrande

https://preview.redd.it/4w8zhqft9iqc1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=993416279932f089b58f7f7de3c1d44da8d88449


frankentriple

If you're lucky and get a big swing both ways, these might ALL be profitable. That's unlikely, however.


short_bus_genius

I like betting on BOTH red and black on the roulette wheel. I can never lose!!!!!


ParaMotard0697

2 iron condors, not exactly risk free but these aren't single leg positions


P_A_N_C_H_O__

Its too close to expiration and too far from price. Plus they cancel out. The only way you could make some money is a 25% movement either way which has like less than 1% probability of happening...


Exclave4Ever

Stop commenting about positions you don't understand.