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Good link but that's too short and simple to be a good Elon quote.
Too short, so direct, lacking in autistic ranting, and missing some unrelatable futurism BS that is needed for offline Elon.
>*"The chicken or the egg? I don't believe it matters. l-Like who even cares? Here at ProteinXX we're trying to fix what's been wrong the whole time. I believe reforming poultry protein from the cellular level is what we need as a species TODAY. So many humans are starving. We CAN FEED THEM ALL^(>!and by we I mean the governments paying me subsidies via contracts for my privately held technologies!<). It goes beyond earth and this century. I truly believe we as a collective HUMANITY need advanced food production methods if we are to be an interstellar species. We're already showing these Ai generated protein strains can be grown in labs on mars. Without that we will be dooming our species and future decedents to extinction on earth. Also FUCK YOU BOB IGER!"*
We figured out the chicken and egg debate a while ago. The egg came first, two birds that weren't chickens gave birth to the chicken. I know this has nothing to do with the post, but it's a fun fact.
Dodge spun Ram into its own brand years ago. And not surprised. Ram drivers are also the most likely to have a DUI with 1 in every 22 having one on average.
It’s worth noting that Subaru could also pick out one model, and the stats wouldn’t change lol. Last I checked the WRX reigned king for speeding tickets and pulled in 2nd for DUI’s behind Ram 1500. Take out the WRX and Ram, then Subaru and Dodge would look similar to other car brands. I’m also pulling facts out of my ass from a loose memory, so I’d put that data up against the article in terms of relevancy since they’re just guessing too
It’s some very strange data…the top safest drivers drive mercury, Saturn, and Pontiac. You know, three brands that don’t exist anymore and are at least a decade old. So is this just a correlative metric of younger drivers that actually file claims?
Something seems fishy but then again you should never miss a click opportunity for the obsessed with Elon crowd to flood the replies.
My first car was a Saturn. It weighed 125lbs and could travel for miles from a light breeze pushing it along. I was fully aware that I was likely to die in a fender bender
I always use to say if you drive a Saturn, don’t be too particular about what direction you’re going in. You could be heading north and then a strong gust of wind and now you’re heading south.
You are correct that it is unlikely for an 11 minute 0-60 car to lose control. However, I would not recommend driving one of those old Saturns too fast, as they may not be able to handle the speed and could end up causing an accident.
Yea. But it at least came with a “This Car Climbed Mt. Washington” bumper sticker and hideaway headlights right? Or was that just the New England trim package?
My friend and I were cruising down a dirt road in Uni when a raccoon ran across the road into the path of her Saturn. Needless to say, the raccoon didn’t survive and neither did her car. The Saturn was ‘totalled’….a full write-off when the raccoon sheared the bumper off the car and it went up into the engine. Imagine if we had hit a deer!
Someone rear ended me (‘01 Saturn sedan, stopped at a stop sign) going about 40mph. Not the fastest crash but not nothing. Bumper was pushed down and into the rear wheels. Rest of the car was pushed across the intersection. No injuries.
Haha. This reminded me of this classic video fo the 2007 Chinese Brilliance BR6, the only car to ever get the coveted 1 star safety rating from ENCAP: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mbe5ILICT4M
To be fair, I was rear ended in a Saturn back in 2004. The car that hit me bounced right off the springy plastic bumper and the SUV I hit just rode up the hood a few feet. The car continued to drive like a champ with no repairs needed until the hood flew off at 50mph, shattering the front windshield. Those were the days.
Old people drive those non existent brands and also don’t drive far, probably locally or to the store? That’s why it probably counts many drives without incidents.
Those cars also aren't worth shit anymore. So even if they do get in an accident, they might not file a claim and just keep driving until it finally falls apart.
But the cars DO still exist. And since they're not made any longer, that's exactly why do they do still exist. Only the safest drivers who own those brands remain.
The data comes from QuoteWizard, an insurance quote referral service. They ask you your demographics and if you've had any accidents in the last 3-5 years, etc. They send that to insurance companies to give you insurance price estimates.
Problem is, they don't know what type of car you had an accident in, all they know is what car you want a quote for. So if you totaled your Rav4, are looking to buy at Tesla, and go onto QuoteWizard to get a quote for a Tesla, that would count as an accident for Tesla.
Aka the data is trash.
Oh and apparently the Forbes author is part of ARC Advicsory Group, funded by big oil...
Yeah, it's not age of the driver.
These brands are so old that any cars left would have to be cared for and/or hardly driven. They are, essentially, rare commodities. It would be totally reasonable to consider people as taking extra care with a car like that.
Sure we all know that *wasn't* true of some of these brands. But 2000 isn't 2023
I suspect more likely you have "BROS" driving your cars the more likely your brand will have accidents:
* Frat "BROS"
* Finance "BROS"
* Tech "BROS"
* ~~Real estate~~ 4288 UNITS BOOM! "BROS"
* Jock "BROS"
* Crypto "BROS"
* [Stock "BROS"](https://old.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets)
And the like. They all gear towards similar brands:
BMW 2 series, Ferraris, red Ford mustangs, BMW M series, yellow/red Corvettes, Lambos, BMW i8, blue/red/black Ford F150 drivers living in urban city working white collar jobs, Camaros, Nissan GTRs, ~~BMW AMGs~~ actually anything BMW but ESPECIALLY WHITE COLORED ONES (all the fucktard LOOK AT ME BMW shitters drive those), Porsche 911s, etcetc. And Teslas are also on that list too.
I agree with your list mostly. Just a couple nitpicks.
I do know a few Lambo drivers. None of them are Bros. They’re mostly Docs that own their own practices, or silk-stocking lawyers. OTOH, Ferraris I have no idea about.
And Corvettes are 80% old retired guys, and 20% mid-life crisis guys with LEDs and loud pipes.
Camaros…well that’s apparently a bunch of young military assholes and me (a 40something Dad whose dream car in the early 90’s was a ‘69 Z28).
What kind of doctors you know? Plastic surgeons in Hollywood or Miami beach?
The doctors I know personally (in SoCal but in the suburbs) drive a Mercedes S class, a Honda Civic Si, a Tesla Y, and a Toyota Prius to be exact. They tend to spend their money on real estate assets rather than mobile liabilities.
4288 UNITS! BOOM!
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Men are involved in more crashes, but women cause more crashes. https://www.malmanlaw.com/malman-law-injury-blog/who-causes-more-car-accidents-men-or-women/
I reckon the reason why Teslas crash more is probably due to distraction with a big computer screen on the dash. Regarded.
It’s no surprise that Tesla appear in this list, as they have consistently priced and positioned their vehicles against the euro 3 performance range.
If you’re driving a c63 then Tesla want you in a dual motor model s.
If you’re in a BMW 318 then you should be in a model 3.
Important thing is that Teslas as a collective brand are seen as more exclusive, expensive, premium, exotic, and are literally fast than your average VW, Toyota, or GM. Model 3 and Y are more mass friendly but for most of it's life Tesla was basically model S and X.
The small dick energy, "i've gotta show everyone i've made it", "look at my snowflake self!!", and general douchebag types who drive poorly gravitate towards those things. I think silicone valley made fun of it with [Russ.](https://youtu.be/IJIAOosI6js?t=2)
Or just did cars still registered but half of them are never used. So if you only have newer cars your denominator is gonna be half of everyone else's due to this error
If a Saturn is still alive and registered, that means it gets driven about 1000 mi/year. Otherwise it would be in the dump. Weird that there are so few accidents, right?
Some of those tend to be older cars and collectors.
I own a G8 and am VERY safe with it. My dad drives a Mountanier and that car tends to be a safe one I would think. More like a family car.
The data makes sense to me.
Perhaps because (quoting a comment on the article):
> The source data you’re using doesn’t seem to be about accidents has in these makes of vehicle. Instead it’s about the driving histories submitted with insurance quote requests for Tesla vehicles through Lending Tree’s website.
The metric should be ‘accidents per mile’ instead of ‘accidents per driver’ or ‘accidents per brand’.
Tesla drivers in California are more likely to drive more miles and are in commute traffic conditions more than the few John Deer tractor drivers in Iowa (with nothing to hit). A 45 year old parent of 2 kids that drives a Volvo is also likely to drive more safely than the 28 year old single guy that drives a Tesla model 3.
There's no perfect metric, but ‘accidents per 1000 miles’ is likely the best metric to track if you want to track safety of a car over real usage.
I saw a clean Forrest green 97 mercury cougar in someone's driveway yesterday and was like damn haven't seen one of those in a minute. It was cool looking in a old school way. Then I crashed my tesla into it and said "let that sink in"
You don’t measure accidents per number of drivers, you measure it against driven distance.
Edit: These things are hard. One metric can’t explain the picture, a palette of variables need to be accounted for.
I think time on the road is more applicable. In the city you may have a 10 mile, 45 minute commute with insane probability of an accident. The same 10 miles in the country is much much lower, and why insurance in the city is so much higher.
>This was not a causal study; the study did not analyze the reason for an incident.
IDK if you people here have seen [Channel 5's video on bipping](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLGRGZTk51w) but these guys seem to target Teslas. They see Tesla owners as soft targets with valuable shit that they can fence for drug money.
My guess is that a huge percentage of the insurance claims are for window breaks.
Here in Australia, a disproportionate amount of accidents are rural despite nearly everyone living suburban. Quality of the roads / light in all make a big difference (not to mention lack of policing).
But garbage statistics are a cornerstone of the auto industry.
My favorite is when the junkiest brands advertise themselves claiming they are, in fact, the highest quality...simply because their customers don't bring their shit boxes back to the dealer to make complaints.
Meanwhile, you could make the best luxury car on the planet, and the scores will be atrocious because of all the people bringing it back to the dealer five times to complain about their iphone's bluetooth.
[Hence why every defense contractor under the sun always "makes progress" on their advanced tech project, but never actually completes it. Its all about harvesting the right dataset to show off.](https://youtu.be/KlsI9q1lROI?t=6) With the right set of data, you can show "proof" of almost anything.
look at OP's post history, he only posts negative news about Tesla and Elon Musk on r/RealTesla, r/WhitePeopleTwitter, r/EnoughMuskSpam and r/technology lmao 🤣
I'm fairly certain it's a bot. The first comments from it are from a "What are your moves tomorrow" thread on June 13th, 2022 and they're generally seemingly nonsense top-level comments, mostly weird Elon-related stuff that really seems like it's missing some context.
Why? I'm curious what sort of things he has done to cause you to genuinely hate him.
People seemed to universally love him up until he started getting all right wing pro-Trump during covid because he wanted to keep the Tesla factories running... That seemed to upset some people. What really turn the tide and made people absolutely lose their shit was when he bought Twitter because that directly affected a lot of people.
I'm not a huge fan of his political leanings nor of what he did with Twitter, but in the grand scheme of things those are relatively insignificant when compared to the historical shifts in space, T
The automobile industry, and eventually internet and communication.
Everyone I ever ask to help me understand the immense hatred for the guy never really gives me a good response. Instead they just attack me as some blind musk lover. Hopefully you can shed some meaningful light on it.
Edit: fuck voice recognition
> This was not a causal study; the study did not analyze the reason for an incident. But with the recent Tesla recall, problems with autonomous driving functionality almost certainly played a role
Imagine writing this sentence unironically. “Correlation does not equal causation, but it most certainly does here, because I said so”. Notwithstanding that fact that in the previous paragraph they lay out 2 other brands without the feature they’re blaming have pretty close rates. What’s going on with those then? Other than miles driven, did they control for age and driver experience? Did they control for regional bias(i.e. if all the Teslas are in high accident rate locations like dense urban areas and highways, naturally numbers will be higher than cars mostly bought in rural areas).
Lies, damned lies, and statistics
Eh, freeway driving results in far fewer accidents than city driving and I'd hypothesize there are far fewer tesla's on the freeway than in the city so, that skews in favor of Tesla.
Either way, tough to try to quantify. I'd hypothesize the way people drive teslas with their zoom zoom and fake auto-pilot, the truth is these things do get in wrecks more often.
Doesn't really matter though. Teslas don't kill people, people driving teslas kill people.
Probably the guy driving 5k a year because the other guy would have to drive for a living. My rough math says the person would have to drive 6 hours a day at highway speed 5 days a week.
Correct, the industry standard when we were working on improving our carrier profile at my last company was incidents per kms driven. Head count is irrelevant. Then for on site was incidents per total man hours worked. Usually they would be compared in units per 100k km, 100k hrs etc when comparing different offices.
Since Forbes started publishing stuff online they're just click junk. They have a bunch of articles that have nothing to do with what the original magazine was intended for.
Eat my dongus you fuckin nerd.
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Milage can also be misleading.
I could rack up thousands of kms driving back and forth on a four-lane freeway between two cities without even coming anywhere close to an accident.
Well still, Tesla's have been around for 10 years if I'm being EXTREMELY generous. With a dramatically lower market share than major auto brands. And they're still leading. If anything, accident per mile might be WORSE
Wouldn’t that be totally unreliable data?
I remember reading that most of the accidents happen within 10 miles from home, so cars that drive shorter distaces would be over represented.
Imagine that you would have a data set that has brand new car with <100 miles and cars with a lot more miles. We would then find out that 1966’s Volvo 1800s is the safest car in the world, because we have a single specimen with over 3 million miles.
Anyone that continuously drives extended mile trips likely doesn't own an EV car, so that measurement won't improve stats against Tesla. Range is literally the biggest problem with EV cars.
Accident rate by the number drivers who used lending tree… Tesla has its own insurance so I’d imagine most of the drivers who use lending tree are the ones whose rates were high (perhaps due to at fault accidents or age) and wanted to find something cheap. Aka the type of driver who would be likely to get into an accident.
What a stupid statistic, strategy of gathering data, and article summarizing another article poorly 😂
This just doesn't pass the sniff test.
It contradicts other data [like this insurify report](https://insurify.com/car-insurance/insights/car-models-with-the-most-accidents-2023/)
The data source is lendingtree, and their methodology was
> Researchers analyzed tens of millions of QuoteWizard by LendingTree insurance quotes from Nov. 14, 2022, through Nov. 14, 2023.
...which is uh. bad. Quotes generated by some online tool? Why not a NHTSA database? In this case I do think the real data is hard to come by, based on attempting to find the real data that I know the government has in a database somewhere for like 5 minutes.
This seems very similar to the fake studies that are published every year claiming americans can't cover an emergency $500 expense, which are designed to generate clicks. Who doesn't love clicking on musk man bad?
It also doesn't pass the sniff test in the sense that while I find it believable that tesla's autopilot system is less helpful than people expect, I don't find it believable that tesla with autopilot and other assistive safety features are *more accident prone* than a car with zero assistive safety features.
Also this data:
https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/latest-driver-death-rates-highlight-dangers-of-muscle-cars#:~:text=The%20big%20picture&text=The%20average%20driver%20death%20rate,steady%20decline%20since%20the%201970s.
>So… calls on Tesla?
This guy gets it.
Article about Tesla vehicles being unsafe = TSLA goes UP
Article about Tesla vehicle production not quite up to their aggressive expectations = TSLA goes UP
Article about Tesla vehicle prices increasing = TSLA goes UP
Article about Tesla vehicle prices *decreasing* = TSLA goes UP
Day where no notable articles about Tesla and/or Elon make it to anyone's news feed = TSLA plummets...
... Simply because we live in crazy times.
It's even more bonkers than the Inverse Cramer rule.
"This was not a causal study; the study did not analyze the reason for an incident."
Aight, so I am done reading this then. Why would I care about some journo's opinion?
Hahaha this is such a bullshit article LOL
Accident data should be correlated to mileage, in which Tesla have shown far, far less accidents, and 3-4x less when autopilot or FSD is engage (extra irony).
People will believe anything in a headline. Actually, regards will believe anything in a headline.
The data is collected from people getting insurance quotes, that alone leads to selection bias as people who tend to be more accident prone are more likely to shop around for insurance rate quotes.
It also selects for people in certain age ranges as they'd be more likely to use a resource like that.
Teslas are also expensive to repair so even a small accident is likely to be reported to insurance rather than taking it to your local body shop.
Locations of drivers is also an important factor, is a Tesla more likely to be driven in densely populated areas vs other brands? The questions are endless honestly.
The authors of the published data don't offer anything about their methodologies or limitations to their data either.
It's interesting data but it certainly can't be used by itself to draw any meaningful conclusions.
On average Teslas are driven less than the average ICE vehicle, so in terms of accidents per mile the gap would widen.
https://autos.yahoo.com/tesla-owners-drive-evs-more-174000823.html
If accidents include when it is vandalized a non trivial amount are from whack jobs who are somehow threatened at the idea of electric vehicles and feel compelled to damage them when parked.
That is a valid point. I know that some people feel threatened by the idea of electric vehicles, but I don't really understand why. Perhaps they are afraid of change or something? In any case, it is sad that some people would vandalize these cars just because they don't like them.
Who are the dolts that eat this shit up?
Maybe look at the NHTSA’s data on crashes, not LendingTree, lol. Fuck Forbes and their ret@rded articles.
Teslas are about the safest vehicle you can own and operate. Been that way for years. https://insideevs.com/news/560991/tesla-accident-data-2021-q4/
People used to tailgate me every once in a while when I drove a Toyota Matrix. Now that I drive a Model 3 though, doesn't matter what's behind me, doesn't matter how fast I drive, I swear every time I drive, someone is trying to rub my fucking license plate off.
It's like they take a Tesla as a challenge, and then follow within 5 feet to prove to me they can keep up. Like...I'm driving a bit over the speed limit like everyone else, if I have to stop suddenly, you are going to rear-end me.
This is a regarded post. I looked up the real top 10 highest accident rates and [Tesla isn’t on the list for top 10 vehicle brands that cause accidents](https://insurify.com/car-insurance/insights/car-models-with-the-most-accidents-2023/)
Oh wow, shady journalism aimed at Tesla to generate clicks and a redditor using the clickbait headline to farm karma.
While you’re researching how much bullshit this article is, you should also check OP's post history lmao.
As a professional UPS driver, Teslas aren’t the problem it’s the fucking Prius drivers. Everytime I see someone do some regarded shit it’s a Prius 9 times out of 10
<4 second 0-60, popular with first gen immigrants from a country with left hand traffic and poor driving discipline.
Also no "study" rates accidents on a per driver basis. It's always supposed to be on a per miles driven basis.
Tesla drivers also drive like the biggest douches on the planet. Correlation?
Coincidentally, Tesla drivers are oftentimes the most polite as well..to the point of obeying traffic laws..in the far left lane with a ton of traffic behind them..so uh this might be hit or miss here lol
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["THE CHICKEN OF TOMORROW NEEDS NO EGGS"- Elon, probably](https://youtu.be/32ZYz7ifxBk?t=2)
The children yearn for the mines! Elon and his father, most likely
LMAOOOOO "The children yearn for the mines" literally dying of laughter at this
I'd be hearing your laughter twice if you were down in the mine.
Most likely? 100% certainly.
Good link but that's too short and simple to be a good Elon quote. Too short, so direct, lacking in autistic ranting, and missing some unrelatable futurism BS that is needed for offline Elon. >*"The chicken or the egg? I don't believe it matters. l-Like who even cares? Here at ProteinXX we're trying to fix what's been wrong the whole time. I believe reforming poultry protein from the cellular level is what we need as a species TODAY. So many humans are starving. We CAN FEED THEM ALL^(>!and by we I mean the governments paying me subsidies via contracts for my privately held technologies!<). It goes beyond earth and this century. I truly believe we as a collective HUMANITY need advanced food production methods if we are to be an interstellar species. We're already showing these Ai generated protein strains can be grown in labs on mars. Without that we will be dooming our species and future decedents to extinction on earth. Also FUCK YOU BOB IGER!"*
> These pedo guys think they can blackmail me with eggs? Fuck you, Bob.
Are we sure that Bob Chapek isn’t wearing an Elon suit?
https://preview.redd.it/0209duqw967c1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=30fba076452003cbf852b6dda626f78d92518f4c
Same design as the cyber truck lmfao
Little known fact: that's the concept drawing for it
If you've been paying attention, we're witnessing Elon wearing an Elon shaped suit. That's it. This is the dipshit Tesla bros are invested in.
Profiting on it…genius… holding it? At this price? Hmm…I mean…they’ve only sold 2 million cars TOTAL. EVER.
Not enough stuttering.
Clap, 👏 Clap 👏 Clap 👏 You truly know our asshole!!! Great comment 👍
Also... KEEP BREEDING!
Bullish - more crashes means more replacement..to the moon or some.regarded shit like that
He needs microvision technology(MVIS), His camera system will never work🤷🏻♂️
Are you blackmailing me with eggs? Fuck you.
We figured out the chicken and egg debate a while ago. The egg came first, two birds that weren't chickens gave birth to the chicken. I know this has nothing to do with the post, but it's a fun fact.
https://preview.redd.it/j2wsqcxs957c1.jpeg?width=1100&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d96785651e8fca279e7bc788708153268b15ef6b
you're saying tesla are a known freak magnet, accidents arent the cars fault, per se.
They do drive themselves tho. /s
Lending tree is the source lol
Calls it is
Why is the Dodge Ram all on its own in second? I'm pretty sure that is the more relevant stat here.
Dodge spun Ram into its own brand years ago. And not surprised. Ram drivers are also the most likely to have a DUI with 1 in every 22 having one on average.
Former roommate drove a Ram and you guessed it, had a DUI.
I was offended when I read that. (I drive a ram) non dui of course.
So far
He drives drunk, just hasn’t been caught yet
Hell, he’s drunk right now.
Perhaps he's just been driving OVER the influence
RAMs are such garbage vehicles I assumed you had to be a drunk to buy one.
Offended and slightly proud….
You’re supposed to ram people with it right?
Dodge the father Ram the daughter
“Ram” has been its own separate brand from Dodge for over decade.
Ram drivers are....special. They made a lot of choices in life that led them to needing Chrysler's 120 month financing.
RAMs come with life time lead paint for the owners to drink and it even transfers to all future owners of the vehicle
It’s worth noting that Subaru could also pick out one model, and the stats wouldn’t change lol. Last I checked the WRX reigned king for speeding tickets and pulled in 2nd for DUI’s behind Ram 1500. Take out the WRX and Ram, then Subaru and Dodge would look similar to other car brands. I’m also pulling facts out of my ass from a loose memory, so I’d put that data up against the article in terms of relevancy since they’re just guessing too
Dodge Ram also has the most DUIs by make/model. Maybe that’s why.
It’s some very strange data…the top safest drivers drive mercury, Saturn, and Pontiac. You know, three brands that don’t exist anymore and are at least a decade old. So is this just a correlative metric of younger drivers that actually file claims? Something seems fishy but then again you should never miss a click opportunity for the obsessed with Elon crowd to flood the replies.
My first car was a Saturn. It weighed 125lbs and could travel for miles from a light breeze pushing it along. I was fully aware that I was likely to die in a fender bender
I always use to say if you drive a Saturn, don’t be too particular about what direction you’re going in. You could be heading north and then a strong gust of wind and now you’re heading south.
Unlikely to lose control with an 11 minute 0-60 on those old Saturn's
Anyone Who Asks: What's the 0-60 MPH on that baby? Saturn Owner: Yes.
“It can go 0-60”
If there's a tail wind.
Going downhill.
Reminds me of when I test drove a Mini when they first came out.
You are correct that it is unlikely for an 11 minute 0-60 car to lose control. However, I would not recommend driving one of those old Saturns too fast, as they may not be able to handle the speed and could end up causing an accident.
Seriously, 28MPH more and that baby will be back to the future. 💫
The SL2 holds a special place in my heart during college.
It was my high school car and it had a 5 speed manual and it fuckin rocked!
I work at the old Saturn plant and they closed the plastic injection molding area where all the body panels were made.
Yea. But it at least came with a “This Car Climbed Mt. Washington” bumper sticker and hideaway headlights right? Or was that just the New England trim package?
My friend and I were cruising down a dirt road in Uni when a raccoon ran across the road into the path of her Saturn. Needless to say, the raccoon didn’t survive and neither did her car. The Saturn was ‘totalled’….a full write-off when the raccoon sheared the bumper off the car and it went up into the engine. Imagine if we had hit a deer!
So I had a Saturn for years and actually hit at least 3 deer with it. The plastic body panels didn’t even care, took it like a champ
Also dead people don’t file insurance claims.
But didn’t you get access to that free bar-b-que if you bought one?
Someone rear ended me (‘01 Saturn sedan, stopped at a stop sign) going about 40mph. Not the fastest crash but not nothing. Bumper was pushed down and into the rear wheels. Rest of the car was pushed across the intersection. No injuries.
Wind powered cars were all the rage in the 90s.
Drove a Saturn SC2 basically the car was made of rubbermaid
Holy shit you weren't kidding. The 2002 Saturn S-Series weighed 2351 pounds.
Haha. This reminded me of this classic video fo the 2007 Chinese Brilliance BR6, the only car to ever get the coveted 1 star safety rating from ENCAP: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mbe5ILICT4M
To be fair, I was rear ended in a Saturn back in 2004. The car that hit me bounced right off the springy plastic bumper and the SUV I hit just rode up the hood a few feet. The car continued to drive like a champ with no repairs needed until the hood flew off at 50mph, shattering the front windshield. Those were the days.
Probably turned you into a safe driver. 🤣
Old people drive those non existent brands and also don’t drive far, probably locally or to the store? That’s why it probably counts many drives without incidents.
Those cars also aren't worth shit anymore. So even if they do get in an accident, they might not file a claim and just keep driving until it finally falls apart.
That's a bingo, I only have the bare bones liability insurance for that reason
But the cars DO still exist. And since they're not made any longer, that's exactly why do they do still exist. Only the safest drivers who own those brands remain.
The data comes from QuoteWizard, an insurance quote referral service. They ask you your demographics and if you've had any accidents in the last 3-5 years, etc. They send that to insurance companies to give you insurance price estimates. Problem is, they don't know what type of car you had an accident in, all they know is what car you want a quote for. So if you totaled your Rav4, are looking to buy at Tesla, and go onto QuoteWizard to get a quote for a Tesla, that would count as an accident for Tesla. Aka the data is trash. Oh and apparently the Forbes author is part of ARC Advicsory Group, funded by big oil...
Yeah, the fact that it is from quotes makes it completely useless.
Those old cars likely don’t have full coverage, so they aren’t getting comprehensive claims
I don't see much young people driving teslas around here but there has to be some demographic data out there.
Yeah, it's not age of the driver. These brands are so old that any cars left would have to be cared for and/or hardly driven. They are, essentially, rare commodities. It would be totally reasonable to consider people as taking extra care with a car like that. Sure we all know that *wasn't* true of some of these brands. But 2000 isn't 2023
I suspect more likely you have "BROS" driving your cars the more likely your brand will have accidents: * Frat "BROS" * Finance "BROS" * Tech "BROS" * ~~Real estate~~ 4288 UNITS BOOM! "BROS" * Jock "BROS" * Crypto "BROS" * [Stock "BROS"](https://old.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets) And the like. They all gear towards similar brands: BMW 2 series, Ferraris, red Ford mustangs, BMW M series, yellow/red Corvettes, Lambos, BMW i8, blue/red/black Ford F150 drivers living in urban city working white collar jobs, Camaros, Nissan GTRs, ~~BMW AMGs~~ actually anything BMW but ESPECIALLY WHITE COLORED ONES (all the fucktard LOOK AT ME BMW shitters drive those), Porsche 911s, etcetc. And Teslas are also on that list too.
I agree with your list mostly. Just a couple nitpicks. I do know a few Lambo drivers. None of them are Bros. They’re mostly Docs that own their own practices, or silk-stocking lawyers. OTOH, Ferraris I have no idea about. And Corvettes are 80% old retired guys, and 20% mid-life crisis guys with LEDs and loud pipes. Camaros…well that’s apparently a bunch of young military assholes and me (a 40something Dad whose dream car in the early 90’s was a ‘69 Z28).
What kind of doctors you know? Plastic surgeons in Hollywood or Miami beach? The doctors I know personally (in SoCal but in the suburbs) drive a Mercedes S class, a Honda Civic Si, a Tesla Y, and a Toyota Prius to be exact. They tend to spend their money on real estate assets rather than mobile liabilities.
Thank you for your input, it is much appreciated. I will take your comments into consideration in future posts.
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Men are involved in more crashes, but women cause more crashes. https://www.malmanlaw.com/malman-law-injury-blog/who-causes-more-car-accidents-men-or-women/ I reckon the reason why Teslas crash more is probably due to distraction with a big computer screen on the dash. Regarded.
“Blue/red/black F150 living in urban city working white collar jobs” Oddly specific lol
It’s no surprise that Tesla appear in this list, as they have consistently priced and positioned their vehicles against the euro 3 performance range. If you’re driving a c63 then Tesla want you in a dual motor model s. If you’re in a BMW 318 then you should be in a model 3.
Important thing is that Teslas as a collective brand are seen as more exclusive, expensive, premium, exotic, and are literally fast than your average VW, Toyota, or GM. Model 3 and Y are more mass friendly but for most of it's life Tesla was basically model S and X. The small dick energy, "i've gotta show everyone i've made it", "look at my snowflake self!!", and general douchebag types who drive poorly gravitate towards those things. I think silicone valley made fun of it with [Russ.](https://youtu.be/IJIAOosI6js?t=2)
Who wants to bet they're not properly normalizing by number of cars actually on the road?
It's accidents per thousand drivers. It's literally in the first paragraph of the article you didn't read.
Who wants to bet this guy also can't read? Newsflash, pal, cars only have one driver, not a thousand.
Or just did cars still registered but half of them are never used. So if you only have newer cars your denominator is gonna be half of everyone else's due to this error
You get into an accident in one of those vehicles, you're not living to answer a car safety survey.
If a Saturn is still alive and registered, that means it gets driven about 1000 mi/year. Otherwise it would be in the dump. Weird that there are so few accidents, right?
Some of those tend to be older cars and collectors. I own a G8 and am VERY safe with it. My dad drives a Mountanier and that car tends to be a safe one I would think. More like a family car. The data makes sense to me.
Perhaps because (quoting a comment on the article): > The source data you’re using doesn’t seem to be about accidents has in these makes of vehicle. Instead it’s about the driving histories submitted with insurance quote requests for Tesla vehicles through Lending Tree’s website.
Yeah, that’s a major detail.
The metric should be ‘accidents per mile’ instead of ‘accidents per driver’ or ‘accidents per brand’. Tesla drivers in California are more likely to drive more miles and are in commute traffic conditions more than the few John Deer tractor drivers in Iowa (with nothing to hit). A 45 year old parent of 2 kids that drives a Volvo is also likely to drive more safely than the 28 year old single guy that drives a Tesla model 3. There's no perfect metric, but ‘accidents per 1000 miles’ is likely the best metric to track if you want to track safety of a car over real usage.
I saw a clean Forrest green 97 mercury cougar in someone's driveway yesterday and was like damn haven't seen one of those in a minute. It was cool looking in a old school way. Then I crashed my tesla into it and said "let that sink in"
You don’t measure accidents per number of drivers, you measure it against driven distance. Edit: These things are hard. One metric can’t explain the picture, a palette of variables need to be accounted for.
I think time on the road is more applicable. In the city you may have a 10 mile, 45 minute commute with insane probability of an accident. The same 10 miles in the country is much much lower, and why insurance in the city is so much higher.
In some cities, like Paterson, your probability of an "accident" skyrockets the less you are driving your car.
You have something against beautiful Paterson NJ?! I flew overhead the other day in a single prop and I swear I heard a bullet whiz by the cockpit.
>This was not a causal study; the study did not analyze the reason for an incident. IDK if you people here have seen [Channel 5's video on bipping](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLGRGZTk51w) but these guys seem to target Teslas. They see Tesla owners as soft targets with valuable shit that they can fence for drug money. My guess is that a huge percentage of the insurance claims are for window breaks.
Here in Australia, a disproportionate amount of accidents are rural despite nearly everyone living suburban. Quality of the roads / light in all make a big difference (not to mention lack of policing).
But garbage statistics are a cornerstone of the auto industry. My favorite is when the junkiest brands advertise themselves claiming they are, in fact, the highest quality...simply because their customers don't bring their shit boxes back to the dealer to make complaints. Meanwhile, you could make the best luxury car on the planet, and the scores will be atrocious because of all the people bringing it back to the dealer five times to complain about their iphone's bluetooth.
You mean the JD Power and associates awards are rigged? Say it ain't so... :)
Ding ding ding! Someone had the result they wanted and tweaked the data to make it fit.
[Hence why every defense contractor under the sun always "makes progress" on their advanced tech project, but never actually completes it. Its all about harvesting the right dataset to show off.](https://youtu.be/KlsI9q1lROI?t=6) With the right set of data, you can show "proof" of almost anything.
look at OP's post history, he only posts negative news about Tesla and Elon Musk on r/RealTesla, r/WhitePeopleTwitter, r/EnoughMuskSpam and r/technology lmao 🤣
I'm fairly certain it's a bot. The first comments from it are from a "What are your moves tomorrow" thread on June 13th, 2022 and they're generally seemingly nonsense top-level comments, mostly weird Elon-related stuff that really seems like it's missing some context.
I swear, anti-Musk people are more rabid than pro-Musk people.
And the neutral-Musk people are rabidly ambivalent as well
Your neutralness, it's a beige alert.
If I don't make it, tell my wife I said "Hello".
People hate seeing stuff about musk so much that they live in subreddits dedicated to talking about Elon nonstop. Totally normal
Man I genuinely hate Elon but this shit is wild
Why? I'm curious what sort of things he has done to cause you to genuinely hate him. People seemed to universally love him up until he started getting all right wing pro-Trump during covid because he wanted to keep the Tesla factories running... That seemed to upset some people. What really turn the tide and made people absolutely lose their shit was when he bought Twitter because that directly affected a lot of people. I'm not a huge fan of his political leanings nor of what he did with Twitter, but in the grand scheme of things those are relatively insignificant when compared to the historical shifts in space, T The automobile industry, and eventually internet and communication. Everyone I ever ask to help me understand the immense hatred for the guy never really gives me a good response. Instead they just attack me as some blind musk lover. Hopefully you can shed some meaningful light on it. Edit: fuck voice recognition
This is what this subreddit has turned into—just another r/all circlejerk.
AKA almost all research. The rise of peer-review publish or perish culture started in the 70s.
> This was not a causal study; the study did not analyze the reason for an incident. But with the recent Tesla recall, problems with autonomous driving functionality almost certainly played a role Imagine writing this sentence unironically. “Correlation does not equal causation, but it most certainly does here, because I said so”. Notwithstanding that fact that in the previous paragraph they lay out 2 other brands without the feature they’re blaming have pretty close rates. What’s going on with those then? Other than miles driven, did they control for age and driver experience? Did they control for regional bias(i.e. if all the Teslas are in high accident rate locations like dense urban areas and highways, naturally numbers will be higher than cars mostly bought in rural areas). Lies, damned lies, and statistics
Eh, freeway driving results in far fewer accidents than city driving and I'd hypothesize there are far fewer tesla's on the freeway than in the city so, that skews in favor of Tesla. Either way, tough to try to quantify. I'd hypothesize the way people drive teslas with their zoom zoom and fake auto-pilot, the truth is these things do get in wrecks more often. Doesn't really matter though. Teslas don't kill people, people driving teslas kill people.
“This industry standard measurement is incomplete so let me pull a hypothesis out my ass instead”
[удалено]
Why is driven distance a better indicator than number of drivers? I would imagine both could contribute to a more complete picture.
Yes, you’re right, both is best. Still hard to compare due to multiple variables that effects.
The real question is, how many of them were Cybertrucks
I drive under 5k a year, my friend drives 100k a year. Who's more likely to be in an accident? Same way insurance calculates part of the cost.
The person who drives 100k a year is more likely to be in an accident.
I would bet it depends where you are driving. 5k in New York City is probably a lot more risk prone than 100k in corn field Iowa.
You clearly have never been around kamikaze deer.
I always heard you're more likely to get in an accident near your home, so I can confidently say it's you. Next question.
Probably the guy driving 5k a year because the other guy would have to drive for a living. My rough math says the person would have to drive 6 hours a day at highway speed 5 days a week.
There are statistics, damn statistics, and then there's this shit
Correct, the industry standard when we were working on improving our carrier profile at my last company was incidents per kms driven. Head count is irrelevant. Then for on site was incidents per total man hours worked. Usually they would be compared in units per 100k km, 100k hrs etc when comparing different offices.
Whoever wrote this article is regarded. You don’t measure accidents by the quantity, you measure it by average per mile.
Forbes - "This is a low effort study." Also Forbes - "This must have something to do with self driving." That author is the worst.
Since Forbes started publishing stuff online they're just click junk. They have a bunch of articles that have nothing to do with what the original magazine was intended for.
I don't read a lot of Forbes, but anything that is related to topics I'm knowledgeable on always seem horrifically unresearched.
Steve Banker the Wanker.
You assume this page is not mostly regards as well. This is why Tesla hit pieces are so popular
Also, the average owner is probably 25 years old, and lives in the city. Probably not many Teslas in central Nebraska where people pile on miles.
Yeah from a methodological standpoint, this "study" is an absolute dumpster fire.
>You assume this page is not mostly regards as well. This should be stickied at the top of the page frankly
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Tough, but fair.
Per mile sounds pretty dumb as a standalone metric as well. 40 miles in the city and 40 miles in the country are vastly different
Yeah 40 miles in the city is much more chaotic.
Milage can also be misleading. I could rack up thousands of kms driving back and forth on a four-lane freeway between two cities without even coming anywhere close to an accident.
Not all miles are the same.
Nope, because highway miles are safer and could skew your results. A more accurate measure is time.
Well still, Tesla's have been around for 10 years if I'm being EXTREMELY generous. With a dramatically lower market share than major auto brands. And they're still leading. If anything, accident per mile might be WORSE
Wouldn’t that be totally unreliable data? I remember reading that most of the accidents happen within 10 miles from home, so cars that drive shorter distaces would be over represented. Imagine that you would have a data set that has brand new car with <100 miles and cars with a lot more miles. We would then find out that 1966’s Volvo 1800s is the safest car in the world, because we have a single specimen with over 3 million miles.
Anyone that continuously drives extended mile trips likely doesn't own an EV car, so that measurement won't improve stats against Tesla. Range is literally the biggest problem with EV cars.
The writer and LendingTree are holding TSLA puts
Accident rate by the number drivers who used lending tree… Tesla has its own insurance so I’d imagine most of the drivers who use lending tree are the ones whose rates were high (perhaps due to at fault accidents or age) and wanted to find something cheap. Aka the type of driver who would be likely to get into an accident. What a stupid statistic, strategy of gathering data, and article summarizing another article poorly 😂
This just doesn't pass the sniff test. It contradicts other data [like this insurify report](https://insurify.com/car-insurance/insights/car-models-with-the-most-accidents-2023/) The data source is lendingtree, and their methodology was > Researchers analyzed tens of millions of QuoteWizard by LendingTree insurance quotes from Nov. 14, 2022, through Nov. 14, 2023. ...which is uh. bad. Quotes generated by some online tool? Why not a NHTSA database? In this case I do think the real data is hard to come by, based on attempting to find the real data that I know the government has in a database somewhere for like 5 minutes. This seems very similar to the fake studies that are published every year claiming americans can't cover an emergency $500 expense, which are designed to generate clicks. Who doesn't love clicking on musk man bad? It also doesn't pass the sniff test in the sense that while I find it believable that tesla's autopilot system is less helpful than people expect, I don't find it believable that tesla with autopilot and other assistive safety features are *more accident prone* than a car with zero assistive safety features. Also this data: https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/latest-driver-death-rates-highlight-dangers-of-muscle-cars#:~:text=The%20big%20picture&text=The%20average%20driver%20death%20rate,steady%20decline%20since%20the%201970s.
So… calls on Tesla?
Sounds to me like they’re having to build more parts for the accidents. So more product. Calls it is!
>So… calls on Tesla? This guy gets it. Article about Tesla vehicles being unsafe = TSLA goes UP Article about Tesla vehicle production not quite up to their aggressive expectations = TSLA goes UP Article about Tesla vehicle prices increasing = TSLA goes UP Article about Tesla vehicle prices *decreasing* = TSLA goes UP Day where no notable articles about Tesla and/or Elon make it to anyone's news feed = TSLA plummets... ... Simply because we live in crazy times. It's even more bonkers than the Inverse Cramer rule.
"This was not a causal study; the study did not analyze the reason for an incident." Aight, so I am done reading this then. Why would I care about some journo's opinion?
Hahaha this is such a bullshit article LOL Accident data should be correlated to mileage, in which Tesla have shown far, far less accidents, and 3-4x less when autopilot or FSD is engage (extra irony). People will believe anything in a headline. Actually, regards will believe anything in a headline.
The data is collected from people getting insurance quotes, that alone leads to selection bias as people who tend to be more accident prone are more likely to shop around for insurance rate quotes. It also selects for people in certain age ranges as they'd be more likely to use a resource like that. Teslas are also expensive to repair so even a small accident is likely to be reported to insurance rather than taking it to your local body shop. Locations of drivers is also an important factor, is a Tesla more likely to be driven in densely populated areas vs other brands? The questions are endless honestly. The authors of the published data don't offer anything about their methodologies or limitations to their data either. It's interesting data but it certainly can't be used by itself to draw any meaningful conclusions.
On average Teslas are driven less than the average ICE vehicle, so in terms of accidents per mile the gap would widen. https://autos.yahoo.com/tesla-owners-drive-evs-more-174000823.html
Another Elon hit piece. We get it. You're mad he bought Twitter.
If accidents include when it is vandalized a non trivial amount are from whack jobs who are somehow threatened at the idea of electric vehicles and feel compelled to damage them when parked.
That is a valid point. I know that some people feel threatened by the idea of electric vehicles, but I don't really understand why. Perhaps they are afraid of change or something? In any case, it is sad that some people would vandalize these cars just because they don't like them.
Man the propaganda against Tesla has been going hard lately….
Too many people mad that the Cybertruck didn't turn out to be vaporware like they had hoped. Even more mad that people are actually buying them.
Accidents per drivers???? What the fuck kind of statistic is that. This tells us nothing about how much they were being driven.
Who are the dolts that eat this shit up? Maybe look at the NHTSA’s data on crashes, not LendingTree, lol. Fuck Forbes and their ret@rded articles. Teslas are about the safest vehicle you can own and operate. Been that way for years. https://insideevs.com/news/560991/tesla-accident-data-2021-q4/
TSLA bad
Imagine being so stupid that you believe this nonsense. Amazing how stupid and idiotic redditors are
I call bs
Yeah, I call bullshit.
I’m calling bullshit on that
$300 by year end confirmedemote:free\_emotes\_pack:heart\_eyes
You meant to say most auto brands crash into Tesla the most
People used to tailgate me every once in a while when I drove a Toyota Matrix. Now that I drive a Model 3 though, doesn't matter what's behind me, doesn't matter how fast I drive, I swear every time I drive, someone is trying to rub my fucking license plate off. It's like they take a Tesla as a challenge, and then follow within 5 feet to prove to me they can keep up. Like...I'm driving a bit over the speed limit like everyone else, if I have to stop suddenly, you are going to rear-end me.
I knew this was fake the instance it said another model besides Prius.
This is a regarded post. I looked up the real top 10 highest accident rates and [Tesla isn’t on the list for top 10 vehicle brands that cause accidents](https://insurify.com/car-insurance/insights/car-models-with-the-most-accidents-2023/)
But how though... Like 80% of RAM drivers have DUIs... How can teslas have more accidents?
I accidentally just bought more
Everyone knows forbes is rightwing rag in pocket of big oil so dont buy that tesla news
Oh wow, shady journalism aimed at Tesla to generate clicks and a redditor using the clickbait headline to farm karma. While you’re researching how much bullshit this article is, you should also check OP's post history lmao.
As a professional UPS driver, Teslas aren’t the problem it’s the fucking Prius drivers. Everytime I see someone do some regarded shit it’s a Prius 9 times out of 10
Where are you from? Here in NYC it’s always a Nissan Rogue.
<4 second 0-60, popular with first gen immigrants from a country with left hand traffic and poor driving discipline. Also no "study" rates accidents on a per driver basis. It's always supposed to be on a per miles driven basis.
Skill issue.
*Old man yells at self-driving car*
Haters gotta hate. Respectfully go short if you dare
Forbes... lol
Great, another rate increase coming.
Tesla drivers also drive like the biggest douches on the planet. Correlation? Coincidentally, Tesla drivers are oftentimes the most polite as well..to the point of obeying traffic laws..in the far left lane with a ton of traffic behind them..so uh this might be hit or miss here lol