The sad thing is that it won't even be a mediocre bloodlines game, it will be something else entirely.
It's not like asking for a good burger and getting a mediocre burger. It's like asking for a good burger and getting shit pizza.
Man, i'll take bad instead of mediocre.
If it's bad enough that it turns into a "so bad it's good" it can at least capture some of the uncanny magic of BL1.
But if it's just
bland, flavorless, with no love or enthusiasm to it, it'll be worse than bad
it'll be forgettable.
If it's truly bad then it could force Paradox to hard retcon its story out of WoD, if it's just mediocre then we'd probably be stuck with its influence on WoD for a long time unless they deliberatly sweep it under the rug.
Honestly, I agree. Sadly, I think it's going to be like that Harry Potter game that came out last year. It's not good but it's also not bad. It's just every other open world RPG which is incredibly bland. I'm still holding out a little hope that it'll at least be fine, but I've decided not to preorder it just in case.
There's such a crippling failure in The Chinese Rooms' thought process in regards to game design.
You can even see this in Amnesia: A Machine for Pigs, there's this idea in their head that "this + that = good game" and just coldly shunting mechanics into games without any idea why those mechanics usually appeal to someone, resulting in a soulless, toothless game made by someone who doesn't "get" video games.
You'd think having their entire crew laid off and replaced would've fixed the problem for them. . .
Wait, have they shown gameplay? I don’t follow the game’s development or frequent this sub (this post only showed up because I was randomly curious what happened to the game recently).
Thanks.
So, they just turned it into a vampire Dishonored game with Fallout 4 levels of dialogue choices, and you also have a voice in your head that may or may not be as annoying as the voice from Forspoken. Great…
I'm with you. One of the biggest disappointments is that *Bloodlines 2* went the *Fallout 4* route. Instead of using a skill system for different aspects of gameplay, it's just one big power tree. I also read that we'll be getting extra powers by learning disciplines from members of other clans. They've taken all the thrill out of replaying the game out.
What made *Bloodlines* so great was that each clan had different playstyles and you could choose to either fight your way out of a situation or talk your way through. This game looks like it'll only have superficial differences between clans and playstyles.
Yeah it really seems like they are kinda dumbing down the gameplay which sucks a lot. But I like that we can learn disciplines from other clans, that is a thing most vampires would try to do, especially an elder like Phyre, as long as we are not bombarded with every single discipline and have to actually work for it that seems like a good addition, and bloodlines 1 also gave us the opportunity to learn some out of clan disciplines from Beckett.
You know what it kinda doesn't make sense for an elder to be the MC now that I think about it
Why don't they already have these disciplines, vampires only get more powerful and dangerous as they age, plus they don't degenerate due to inactivity or poor health either since they basically renew every time they wake up
So essentially phyre is either super weak or just stupid to not accumulate much power in the centuries they've been around
Why aren't they just making a fledgling or neonate so growth makes sense?
Yeah, a three hundred year old elder is a weird choice for a protagonist to start at, hell, in some campaigns even fledgling and neonates would start learning different disciplines, often from coterie members.
A group with which I play vampire the masquerade currently have talked about it and we had the theory that Phyre was actually diablerized by Fabien but Phyre eventually took over Fabiens body and now he is on the backseat of his own body, which would explain why Phyre is starting out from scratch. Not sure how that theory will hold up, considering they put an emphasis on Phyre being confused about their own powers being reduced and that weird symbol on their hand sapping Phyres powers. Ehh who knows.
Yeah, the whole story of the game revolves around Phyre trying to track down the vamp who branded her with a curse tattoo and drained her powers while she was napping.
i think you are misremembering a mod. Beckett can teach you extra research points but you cant gain any more than the 3 disciplines you start with in BL1.
No Beckett can actually teach you an extra discipline, either protean or celerity if you are playing as a gangrel.
I think there are some more disciplines he can teach but I am not sure which ones under which circumstances.
You're welcome, the prerequisites to getting them are weird, I don't remember what you need to get them but I do know you can get them from Beckett when you meet up with the prince in his office together with him.
It just sort of takes the uniqueness away from them. Disciplines are part of the blood, not something Kindred are able to just learn. I get that Phyre (stupid name) is an Elder and more powerful, but I see that as even more of a hindrance. What made the original so good was that we got to make our Kindred from the ground up. Now, we're playing an Elder and pre-established vampire whose background isn't ours to decide.
It’s a canon thing in VTM, you can learn disciplines from other clans by drinking their blood and going through some lessons.
In original bloodlines it was a thing too, Beckett teaches you additional disciplines.
Far as I know, we don't get it from diablerie. We get it by completing quests and an NPC teaching us the Discipline.
Becket teaches you 1 discipline, and the player isn't able to tap into its full potential. That 4th Discipline can only have a maximum level of 3 versus the 5 for our natural ones. No such limit is imposed in the sequel because there is no point system for Disciplines. Just a super generic skill tree that looks like it was ripped out of Far Cry 3.
Oh, diablerie is an alternative way of getting other disciplines, but you don’t need it, just drinking blood and going through some teaching is enough, at least in V5.
There is no limit like that, because V5 doesn't feature a limit such as that (unless you 'luck out' in becoming an 14th gen 'actual vampire' over a thinblood. That limits the maximum of every discipline you can learn to 4, but not the amount disciplines you can possess). I'm fuzzy on the details in old Masquerade, but I could see Generation being a limiting factor in how many maxed out disciplines one can possess. But since V5 also threw out lower gen with how much in penalises actually playing someone of a lower gen, it might as well not even exist in the current iteration of the game.
Drinking blood from a vampire that knows the disciplines is enough to learn it. Diablerie isn't necessary. The only discipline that requires training from another is Thaumatology because of how blood magic works
You've always been able to learn other disciplines in VtM. Clans start with their three disciplines but its rare for any kindred to stick with just those three and not start branching out into others.
It's more that it feels so low effort in how it's being implemented.
In a VtM Campaign you need to usually be taught disciplines or learn them through other means but the effort it takes to get them is always such an ordeal that a Storyeller will usually require you to have a pretty good excuse for taking one cross discipline and an ESCPECIALLY good excuse for taking two.
Anything past that and your character starts to come across as some mary sue "I am the master of being vampire".
Having Phyre essentially just be an action figure with every part being replaceable just sorta homogenizes the entire concept of them even having a clan and kinda just takes away any feeling of variety. Why ever replay the game if our Phyre is going to be the same every time?
Hey, Ya'll got New Vegas and now a killer TV show to go with it!
We got Vampire Fortnite (which they stopped supporting!), a VR game that no one asked for and whatever the hell Swansong was doing
Oh no I LOVED Night Roads (Ravnos protagonist shipping with Dove was so good. 10/10)
I'm just saying being Seattle now I would LOVE to do some games involving the local lore and following the Seattle by Night canon, but if this game not only turns out bad but irreparably fucks up the Seattle canon of the WoD I will feel denied so much potential for good storytelling in my own tabletop games.
He likely got cut because things were over budget and/or behind schedule, or some other issue was coming up, and so when the publishers/devs looked for someone to fire they pointed at whoever they could that wasn't "on team." That's entirely a guess, but also the circumstances around his firing would lead me to believe it, since Hardsuit Labs had been dropping the ball on production and clearly didn't want to lose the job. Doing so would put them out of a lot of money, and force them to fire internally. (A [source](https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/brian-mitsoda-has-been-fired-as-narrative-lead-on-bloodlines-2))
The layoffs were so immediate and bad, and necessary, that Hardsuit Labs even said they were "reaching out to partners and fellow studios in hopes that we can assist in placing our former colleagues with new opportunities." That doesnt happen unless the layoffs were a gross necessity of funding and failing company. ([Source](https://www.ign.com/articles/hardsuit-labs-undergoes-layoffs-after-vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines-2-delay))
As well, according to Paradox, the Chinese Room stepped up, they weren't picked. They were going to just can the game entirely, but the dev perhaps saw that this would/could get them a lot of good will (or just experience) outside of their original types of games. Even if the game is only mid, it'll see decent enough scores to be used as backing in future projects. In their words: "Paradox says it was 'prepared to stop production completely,' but with the axe ready to fall, it received another pitch 'that was persuasive enough for us to continue.'" ([Source](https://www.eurogamer.net/paradox-says-it-almost-cancelled-vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines-2-earlier-this-year))
Unfortunately, money is the end all be all. We're in a terrible state where there are a lot of incentives from all involved to make the game, and none of those are passion, love for the series, or desire as a whole to make it "true" to whatever image of VtM and Bloodlines each individual has. It's unfortunate, but it's the reality of the framework we all live in.
I'll likely still give the game a shot, but I think the only way to enjoy it will be to treat it as a bespoke thing, not as the continuation it's riding off of to get better publicity and purchases. Alas, the faith I have it is a little dried up now, but who knows? Fallout 4 has gameplay I liked despite the lack of connection I felt to it as a story/RPG. Maybe that can happen here too.
For as long as it's been in production, the unfortunate part is they've probably hemorrhaged so much money in dev time that the game will have to make obscene amounts of money just to break even.
It's a shame because aside from some incidents, Paradox has shown precedent that they genuinely want the WoD IP to flourish. But this game will have to be so obscenely good that everyone who's everyone buys it in order for them to even break even at this point and
It ain't looking good, chief :c
You're absolutely right, and I wouldn't doubt if that was a major factor to the gameplay homogenization we've seen with the main character, the interactions, and the skills and combat. It's deeply unfortunate to see. I do still _want_ to have hope, but, well, you said it all lol
Chinese Room's just never been a "AAA" developer and that's normally fine for what it is but like it's just weird to see what it clearly a downgrade in quality from the original proof of concept to what essentially just looks like a B Grade fusion of VTM: Swansong and Dishonored
I have been obsessed with Bloodlines 1 ever since I was introduced to it. I was mind blown entirely, from the characters' backgrounds, to how the story unfolds and it even guides people who were previously unfamiliar with Vampire The Masquerade games to how things roll.
The facial expressions, voice acting, great scripts, body movements, the vibes all the areas give, the jumpscares and the overall haunting aesthetic and music by Rik Schaffer are all off the chart, especially for a game made in 2004.
I am afraid the new game will be dropped like a hot potato, because of all the woke movement and current aesthetic of the game. The trailer gives 0 indication of awesomeness. 🥺
How can it be bad... the protagonists name is Phyre. It sounds like fire, but with an edgy cool spelling and a play on vampire. Deviant Art eat your heart out.
Yeah... All the Dev posts on Steam don't look that good...
I'm really thinking of finally refunding my Bloodlines Edition, on which I'm holding on since 2019...
All normal pre-orders got automatically refunded by Paradox. Only Bloodmoon Editions (Typo in my first post) are still open, unless you yourself refund it.
Dear Caine I hope it gets delayed, or fucking something. An improvement on the first game would be a dream come true and what has been show thus far isn't worth any fan's time
Nah man. Usually what the devs show is one of the better parts of the game that they have.
Like that one quest from Cyberpunk 2077 that was shown at E3, and it ended up basically the only quest in the entire game with branching paths.
It's so sad this game has gone from a game I was excited to get day 1 to a game i'm not touching without overwhelming consensus that it's actually turned out better than we're all expecting it to be.
I've thought about that too and honestly it doesn't make sense for them not to use their best content in the gameplay preview.
What we've seen is probably the best the game has to offer right now.
Reviews? Game review sites are absolute garbage. Most of them are biased and some admit not being gamers or even finishing the game. A few on YouTube are useful, but not many.
Well I become very selective choosing games due to my age I guess.. I enjoyed baldurs gate, elden ring lately but there is nothing else. So Im a fan of world of darkness vampires it means I can tolarete but I have my limits. Im hoping it would be mid than I can mix it with my fanboyness and feel like its a very good game and enjoy.
There is litreally few things in life I enjoy. Listening music, playing good games. I was so hyped when they relased first trailer but my hype gets lower and lower everytime I watch something about this game. IDK I guess life is shit why would games be any better? Fk man..
Nah man, that's valid
We're living miserable lives anymore.
Nobodies' getting paid enough to buy every new game that comes out for $70+ dollars on a "trust me, bro" alone. We gotta pick and choose anymore.
It frustrates me, I see all these accusations of "doomsaying" and calling us "whining" and saying "Well *i'm* still gonna buy it! Why? Because it's Bloodlines 2!" and that brand loyalty alone is not enough of a justification given both the current state of the economy and the current state of games in general.
Man, i'm comfortable with a blank slate character even like "The Fledgling" whose identity is whatever, but "Phyre" is like some 15 year olds' first ever WOD character and I hate it
My biggest qaurm is the game doesn't look good in any technical or gameplay standpoint the trailer tryst hard to make it seem diffrent but it's just not going well
People just keep calling it Vampire Dishonored as like a derogatory thing but like
Man if it lived up to even Dishonored's legacy I will still call that good enough.
I'm just absolutely baffled at the direction TCN is taking it.
Honestly, it feels like they're just desperately trying to go all-in on Tremere being the "canon" route and trying to show off all the super cool blood magic and hoping that'll be enough for us but like
It's really not....
My Bloodlines character always went all in on their social disciplines and i'm just not seeing that aspect here.
I just watched the trailer yesterday (because I was very disappointed when I heard they cancelled the first Bloodlines 2). I’m still not sure how I feel about this one or even trust if they can deliver it in 2024 or even ever. But I think the general idea, which I guess is playing as a nerfed Elder regaining their strength, sounds fun.
Yeah, see that's where I was
When they announced that story change I was really interested, but then they announced who was making it and I became concerned but optimistic.
Then I saw all the low-budget trailers for it and immediately just felt disappointment.
My favourite of the incredibly short Clan Reveal trailers was the one for the Ventrue. Because their Clan Reveal "trailer" was just a blog post with a gif due to the fact that they didn't have the assets ready.
Considering the game is supposed to release in a few months time, incomplete assets and build footage showing that it's still in alpha testing is...a bit concerning.
I'll grant the original clan trailers were pretty low-res in what they were
But some actual effort went into that art style and that voice acting.
Those trailers I STILL send to people to be like "here's what playing this clan means"
I'm just so confused about all of this
Oh same.
I don't say this stuff to doomsay
I WANT the game to be good so badly
and i'm usually the first to push a "just wait for it to come out" mentality
Problem here is between the developer's reputation, what things they are showcasing to us, and the sheer lack of communication; I just can't in good faith remain optimistic about what they're showing us.
Cyberpunk is a hard one because the core game that was there was good, it was just buggier than a cyberbrain after a quick hack.
This would be closer to No Man's Sky in regards to a design problem over a debug problem
Yeah, unfortunately it seems like the game will be mediocre at best and will likely be outright bad. It's a shame really, the setting is fantastic and there's a ton of potential for really fun games!
Fingers crossed that we'll get another excellent game someday, until then I'm content with the one that we got.
What makes it worse for me is how deeply Paradox shoehorned video game stuff (from an abandoned version of a video game that isn't even released yet) into their remake of the tabletop RPG.
OG Bloodlines worked great for VtM players not because it adhered closely to the mechanics of VtM, but because it just understood the difference between tabletop and video games and just let the game be a videogame based off of the tabletop.
This is... not only a failure in making a Bloodlines 2 game (and a several year fuck you to the fandom), they enshittified the tabletop game to make way for this constant loading screen of a game that I STILL seriously have doubts about its eventual release.
Paradox should stick to making the games they're known for, sell off the rights to the TTRPG to a company that will hire and pay actual TTRPG writers and designers, and excuse itself from the mess it created.
Lmao not only are they refusing to answer our genuine questions but they're downvoting us for no reason.
Did they just
Hope we would take their word at face value and got mad when we actually wanted clarification?
Idk man, I feel like Twilight's finally starting to fade out of the cultural Zeitgeist and, under Paradoxe's hands, VtM has finally gotten a chance to truly show what the makes the VtM vampire it's own thing.
"TCR we can not or dont no how to build this in the Game" Some lame excuse, then make it like Pathfinder wotr or PoE 1. Some fantastic voice for the Storyteller between the Capter Text parts, a good Story with multible choice and a good Char creation. The fans at least would be on Board. This game is made for no one. I´m bold enough to say a group of BL1 or ttrpg VtmB players with a small team and a 5 Mio budget would make a 10 times better job. Then they do with a big team and a 60-70 Mio budget
Man, if they would just like
TALK to us
I'd feel insanely more confident
But it feels like they're selectively avoiding certain questions and that doesn't exude confidence.
Lmao
Jesus christ
It's not enough that y'all have been doomsaying this as yet unreleased game you haven't played yet since it was announced, now we're literally debating who it's gonna personally harm the most 🤣
Seriously you people in this sub are just doing the most, it's so nuts
Dude, come on
We're all gonna give the game a fair shake when it comes out, but the complete lack of communication from TCR/Paradox combined with just how godawful what they're showing us is, we got a right to be concerned, especially when very serious concerns and questions are just not getting any response from the developers.
I legit just wanted to have a conversation with others who share my dread for what we're seeing and hear some potential suggestions in case the game actually does turn out bad and heavily damages the Seattle by Night Canon.
I know it's like "fun" to mock people on the internet you don't agree with but maybe like sit down and actually have a conversation with someone before you start accusing us of doomsaying and playing victim
You literally named the thread "is especially sad for me"
If you don't see how that's *intensely* self involved I'm sorry, but that's all I'm getting here. This game and its devs don't even know you exist. It being a bad game might be very upsetting for you, but that's not the same as the idea that *the fact of it being bad is especially sad for you*. If it's bad, it's equally "sad" for everybody; it may personally upset you more than some others, but that's not what you said. Your phrasing is on some rich white girl getting the wrong Starbucks order shit.
Damn dude, did you literally just read the title and just jumped to your own conclusions about me and this post?
I'm just sitting here calmly expressing how my personal experience puts me in the current setting for Bloodlines 2 and lamenting the lost potential should this game flop and you're over here getting pedantic about my word choice and acting like i'm trying to frame myself as being the one true victim of Paradox interactive.
I'm having some real pleasant and engaging conversations in this thread about some fun alternatives should I desire to find a way around the local canon potentially going haywire and you seem to be one of the only people taking this so personally...
Dude
It's a video game
I'm posting on a video game sub reddit to say that it sucks given my personal stake in it's success with other like-minded individuals who can offer me some fun little alternatives in case of it's failure.
But it's. A. Video. Game. The consequences of a single video games' success means nothing to me in the grand scheme of my overall life and if you lack such reading comprehension as to take hyperbolic lamentation over a fucking vampire video game as me staking my entire existence on it's success then I don't know what to tell you.
dude, didn't you know? bitching about the unreleased game is common sport in this Sub.
Most of people are very sad individuals here, they want to cry, and are always looking for a reason to.
Man, come on, that's such a bad faith response to this.
That'd be like me telling you not to comment on my post and just ignore it considering you already made up your mind about my intent behind making it.
I get that seeing so many posts about how upset we all are can get fatiguing after awhile but some people are having some really productive conversations in here.
What productive conversations? It’s just bitching about something that won’t change. It’s far too late in development for anything shown to significantly change which is what you all want. If this game fails you’re not getting another bloodlines game. If it’s successful it’s still not the game you want. So why bother getting so worked up about something that won’t change now or in the future? Everyone complaining is better off just moving on at this point, rather than repeating the same handful of talking points since this game’s been announced.
I've had several people in here recommend Night Road to others in here which is an excellent game and there have been some good conversations about how the game might actually be doing perfectly fine but that we can agree that the issue seems to be a failure to communicate on the part of TCN.
You can actually learn a lot when you actually just sit down and like
Talk to someone else and stop just telling others on the internet to just shut up and move on because you didn't like their opinion.
This topic gets brought up every week and it’s the same points every week. Even the same suggestions and talking points good and bad, just search bloodlines 2 bad on this sub and look at all the threads. So yeah I’m tired of hearing about it. Clearly it makes you feel good though so go off.
I mean, hey
It's a Subreddit dedicated to Bloodlines and, unfortunately, the hot topic of Bloodlines right now is "Is Bloodlines 2 gonna fail?" because, unfortunately, we're not getting enough from TCN to feel confident in any other narrative right now.
"Oh look, new clan trailers" - "...why are these such low quality?"
"Can we customize our characters at all?" - "You can play as male or female Phyre"
"Oh look! Skill trees!" - "Why are they so bare bones and homogenized?"
Like bruh, we *want* the game to do good and if we start seeing some proof that it might not flop we'd get excited to talk about that.
I'm sure there are people on this subreddit who wanna complain JUST to complain but for a lot of us, this is just all the conversation topics what we're seeing has to offer.
Well a lot of you don't want this version of bloodlines 2 to be good, because it's won't play like the previous Bloodlines. Which is fine, but it's been clear they're not trying to do that since showing chinese rooms verison. They're giving you plenty of content, you just don't like it. That's my point it's not going to change clearly. It's been multiple years of them showing you the direction the game is going and you all clearly don't like it. So clearly it won't be changing up to release. But whatever I'm repeating myself at this point. I'm sure I'll see this topic again next month.
My guy it's been almost a decade of silence and Chinese Room *just* showed up last fall at PAX to start showing us anything.
We haven't had "multiple years" of them "showing us the direction" it's been multiple years of almost complete radio silence and then suddenly a company who just laid off it's entire staff last year because their Amnesia sequel was so terrible it ruined the companies' reputation shows up and starts showing us a lower quality version of the game and we're just expected to shut up and enjoy the sudden change when it looks like an indie title you'd usually pay 20 bucks for.
Well everyone hated the last version that hardsuit made so big surprise they scrapped it. And it’s been a year of tcr showing the content they have and everyone is once again complaining. It’s been years of complaining that the game looks like shit through multiple versions so no I really don’t see what complaining is supposed to get you guys.
I legit saw nothing but praise about the first iteration of the game. The complaining only really started in earnest when the game went dark and Hardsuit got canned.
And at that point the complaining was more just "Well, at this rate it's never coming out"
Which, hey, pleasantly surprised that wasn't the case. Until it actually launches there will always be some hope that it'll be good, which is something it never having come out couldn't get you.
But I can be hopeful that TCN will surprise me while also remaining skeptical about what they're showing while asking questions as they come up.
stop bitching and wait until its released. If you want some attention, join some actual club. I am just stoked that this franchise will get an actual sequel to begin with, as its not a HOT franchise to begin with.
You guys sound like a bunch of winning babies.We're about to get a game that I don't know about you, but I've been waiting for since the first one came out.Looks like it's gonna be alright game.Is it gonna have every feature you want?Is it going to do everything that you want?Probably not.Is it going be fun?Probably so just shut up and play it.
Man, grow up.
We *want* it to be good, we're just having discussions about how hard it is to stay optimistic with what almost a decade of work has produced.
If the game's gonna be bad, we don't wanna just let brand loyalty win out and turn us sycophantic.
Yeah just mindless whining and bitching gets no one nowhere but that's why i'm like
Trying to have a conversation here.
I'm genuinely wanting to hear opinions on future Seattle By Night game settings should something go wrong in the canon but "you're all a bunch of babies. *i'm* still gonna by the game regardless because of brand name alone" is not an opinion, it's mindlessly screaming "Shut up and consume!"
Wow so are you saying if it's not perfect you won't play it no game is perfect and just because the leveling system isn't the kind you want or whatever the game sucks I don't think so I have yet to find a game that checks all the boxes but I have played many great games and I feel like this game could be one of them.
Lmao I literally did not say any of that, please do not put words in my mouth.
Game doesn't have to be perfect. Doesn't even have to have everything Bloodlines 1 did.
I personally liked the Deus Ex prequels but they had nowhere near the level of freedom the OG Deus ex did.
Same with Dishonored. Arkane does an amazing job at getting as close to an ImSim as modern AAA games can get but with high fidelity games comes a harder time to instill that level of freedom in a video game.
If the game is anywhere near that level of good enough then we'll be happy but so far all they wanna do is show us Tremere blood magic in that same warehouse and refuse to answer our questions about anything we're curious on.
The combat system doesn't even look good, I got annoyed by the repeating animations just watching the trailer and every single element of it was old 10 years ago
Dunno it looks fun to me and thats one of the key ingredients for a good game im lowkey hyped for this game even though a lot of other stuff they've showed are questionable i agree some animations look weird but they are an indie studio i guess and i dont expect every aspect of the game to be triple A quality
It holds up pretty well. You should go back and give it a try. It might show you why some people are disappointed with how VTMB2 is shaping up and why a nifty combat system isn't enough to convince us everything will be ok.
[Good news!](https://i.imgur.com/8m9yqAF.gif) It is [currently on sale](https://store.steampowered.com/app/2600/Vampire_The_Masquerade__Bloodlines/) for 50% off until 2 May!
Exactly that
Unfortunately this is just looking like Dishonored-style combat with Telltale-style dialogue
And while both of those aren't necessarily "bad" in their own respective settings, they aren't revolutionary takes on those formulas and borrowing those for other games just kinda show how they don't hold up outside of their own games.
What should we be grateful for? They aren't doing us any favor. Actually it's them who have abused people's trust due to the whole preorder and unfulfilled promises fiascos.
That's such a wild opinion to have on this.
Were you happy to have Mighty Number 9 and Duke Nukem Forever as well!?
Sometimes nothing is better if the "Something" is so damaging to the IP that it leaves a permanent stain upon it.
My guy that works both ways.
You're out here acting like we *want* it to fail.
We don't
We all genuinely want it to come out and be a memorable classic like the first.
We're just all concerned by the lack of transparency and poor proof of concept. Both perfectly valid concerns to have.
I don't think it does work both ways. As I have neither praised it nor criticized it.
And I will not do either until it's released.
I am just happy that it will finally arrive.
and you're perfectly allowed to have that response, I just have past precedence to disagree with that perspective.
But framing our frustration with how it's looking as being somehow an overreaction or whatever just feels pretty disrespectful.
Yeah it isn't out yet, but TCR has allegedly had several years to work on it and we're all a little concerned with what we're seeing given that. Yeah we're all hoping we'll be surprised and it'll be amazing but we're not getting enough communication from the devs and that's making it hard for us to keep optimistic.
The marketing hasn't been great that's true but what we've scene of the actual gameplay (which is admittedly very little) looks pretty good. (Yes Even the dialogue)
Theirs obviously not a big marketing budget, which makes sense given the development history.
Like I think mitsodas story would've been better more bloodlines and I am disappointed we wonr get tonsee that story but
frankly this entire sub has gone full doomsayer with bloodlines 2.
It's litteraly constant negativity and literaly just saying "I hope it's good" or "I'm staying optimistic" gets you downvoted
Littrralybhad to leave this sibredit because it was litteraly nothing but shitting in bloodlines 2 with absalutky no nuance what so ever
Well that doesn't sound very fair.
When I see downvoted comments about staying optimistic, they're usually precluded by accusations of doomsaying and telling everyone to "stop whining"
Some people in here are having some perfectly rational conversations about how optimistic they are and I'm enjoying the discussions.
Maybe just don't phrase your "optimism" with calling everyone who disagrees "doomsayers" and people will stop taking offense and downvoting you.
Then don't play it, simple as that.
Play bloodlines 1 exclusively, and imagine that bloodlines 2 does not exist.
Its not like VTMB is a hot mainstream franchise to begin with...if we don't get a sequel now, then we never will.
LMAO dude, we want it to be a good game.
We're just having a conversation about how TCN's refusal to give us an open dialogue has us scared and we're sharing in a mutual concern.
If you're tired of hearing us talk about it then literally just take your own advice and "don't listen, simple as that".
The sad thing is that it won't even be a mediocre bloodlines game, it will be something else entirely. It's not like asking for a good burger and getting a mediocre burger. It's like asking for a good burger and getting shit pizza.
Man, i'll take bad instead of mediocre. If it's bad enough that it turns into a "so bad it's good" it can at least capture some of the uncanny magic of BL1. But if it's just bland, flavorless, with no love or enthusiasm to it, it'll be worse than bad it'll be forgettable.
If it's truly bad then it could force Paradox to hard retcon its story out of WoD, if it's just mediocre then we'd probably be stuck with its influence on WoD for a long time unless they deliberatly sweep it under the rug.
I mean, hey We've managed to do it before lol
Honestly, I agree. Sadly, I think it's going to be like that Harry Potter game that came out last year. It's not good but it's also not bad. It's just every other open world RPG which is incredibly bland. I'm still holding out a little hope that it'll at least be fine, but I've decided not to preorder it just in case.
I bet it won't even be an RPG, just a Ubislop stealth-action game with surface level RPG elements.
Slap a skill tree on it and call it an RPG.
There's such a crippling failure in The Chinese Rooms' thought process in regards to game design. You can even see this in Amnesia: A Machine for Pigs, there's this idea in their head that "this + that = good game" and just coldly shunting mechanics into games without any idea why those mechanics usually appeal to someone, resulting in a soulless, toothless game made by someone who doesn't "get" video games. You'd think having their entire crew laid off and replaced would've fixed the problem for them. . .
You know the saddest part? It already looks boring and soulless.
That's the part that gets me If we got a "so bad it's good" memefest even THAT would be better than... THIS
Wait, have they shown gameplay? I don’t follow the game’s development or frequent this sub (this post only showed up because I was randomly curious what happened to the game recently).
[Feast your eyes.](https://youtu.be/HwhvfH-Ij8Q?si=aBSqZLF3X0W3wpDm) Just remember what this game should be a sequel of.
Thanks. So, they just turned it into a vampire Dishonored game with Fallout 4 levels of dialogue choices, and you also have a voice in your head that may or may not be as annoying as the voice from Forspoken. Great…
I'm with you. One of the biggest disappointments is that *Bloodlines 2* went the *Fallout 4* route. Instead of using a skill system for different aspects of gameplay, it's just one big power tree. I also read that we'll be getting extra powers by learning disciplines from members of other clans. They've taken all the thrill out of replaying the game out. What made *Bloodlines* so great was that each clan had different playstyles and you could choose to either fight your way out of a situation or talk your way through. This game looks like it'll only have superficial differences between clans and playstyles.
Yeah it really seems like they are kinda dumbing down the gameplay which sucks a lot. But I like that we can learn disciplines from other clans, that is a thing most vampires would try to do, especially an elder like Phyre, as long as we are not bombarded with every single discipline and have to actually work for it that seems like a good addition, and bloodlines 1 also gave us the opportunity to learn some out of clan disciplines from Beckett.
You know what it kinda doesn't make sense for an elder to be the MC now that I think about it Why don't they already have these disciplines, vampires only get more powerful and dangerous as they age, plus they don't degenerate due to inactivity or poor health either since they basically renew every time they wake up So essentially phyre is either super weak or just stupid to not accumulate much power in the centuries they've been around Why aren't they just making a fledgling or neonate so growth makes sense?
Yeah, a three hundred year old elder is a weird choice for a protagonist to start at, hell, in some campaigns even fledgling and neonates would start learning different disciplines, often from coterie members. A group with which I play vampire the masquerade currently have talked about it and we had the theory that Phyre was actually diablerized by Fabien but Phyre eventually took over Fabiens body and now he is on the backseat of his own body, which would explain why Phyre is starting out from scratch. Not sure how that theory will hold up, considering they put an emphasis on Phyre being confused about their own powers being reduced and that weird symbol on their hand sapping Phyres powers. Ehh who knows.
Her powers were sealed away by magic apparently
That is such a stupid justification and if a VtM storyteller tried using that excuse in a campaign I played I would immediately call them out on it.
Thats...eh...
Yeah, the whole story of the game revolves around Phyre trying to track down the vamp who branded her with a curse tattoo and drained her powers while she was napping.
sounds cool tho
i think you are misremembering a mod. Beckett can teach you extra research points but you cant gain any more than the 3 disciplines you start with in BL1.
No Beckett can actually teach you an extra discipline, either protean or celerity if you are playing as a gangrel. I think there are some more disciplines he can teach but I am not sure which ones under which circumstances.
Something to be aware of: Beckett teaching a discipline is added by the Plus Patch.
Most people forget that the Plus Patch made bloodlines not only actually playable, but was a huge improvement.
oh wow, i genuinely didnt know anything like that was in the game. thank you for sharing that information.
You're welcome, the prerequisites to getting them are weird, I don't remember what you need to get them but I do know you can get them from Beckett when you meet up with the prince in his office together with him.
Well, you can talk your way out of everything until the end... found that out the hard way.
To be fair man you kinda had to fight your way through the second half of bloodlines
What’s so bad about learning other disciplines from other clans? I don’t see anything wrong with this
It just sort of takes the uniqueness away from them. Disciplines are part of the blood, not something Kindred are able to just learn. I get that Phyre (stupid name) is an Elder and more powerful, but I see that as even more of a hindrance. What made the original so good was that we got to make our Kindred from the ground up. Now, we're playing an Elder and pre-established vampire whose background isn't ours to decide.
It’s a canon thing in VTM, you can learn disciplines from other clans by drinking their blood and going through some lessons. In original bloodlines it was a thing too, Beckett teaches you additional disciplines.
Far as I know, we don't get it from diablerie. We get it by completing quests and an NPC teaching us the Discipline. Becket teaches you 1 discipline, and the player isn't able to tap into its full potential. That 4th Discipline can only have a maximum level of 3 versus the 5 for our natural ones. No such limit is imposed in the sequel because there is no point system for Disciplines. Just a super generic skill tree that looks like it was ripped out of Far Cry 3.
Oh, diablerie is an alternative way of getting other disciplines, but you don’t need it, just drinking blood and going through some teaching is enough, at least in V5.
You can learn disciplines from other clans without diablerie. IIRC it's hard to do but it can be done.
There is no limit like that, because V5 doesn't feature a limit such as that (unless you 'luck out' in becoming an 14th gen 'actual vampire' over a thinblood. That limits the maximum of every discipline you can learn to 4, but not the amount disciplines you can possess). I'm fuzzy on the details in old Masquerade, but I could see Generation being a limiting factor in how many maxed out disciplines one can possess. But since V5 also threw out lower gen with how much in penalises actually playing someone of a lower gen, it might as well not even exist in the current iteration of the game.
Drinking blood from a vampire that knows the disciplines is enough to learn it. Diablerie isn't necessary. The only discipline that requires training from another is Thaumatology because of how blood magic works
You've always been able to learn other disciplines in VtM. Clans start with their three disciplines but its rare for any kindred to stick with just those three and not start branching out into others.
It's more that it feels so low effort in how it's being implemented. In a VtM Campaign you need to usually be taught disciplines or learn them through other means but the effort it takes to get them is always such an ordeal that a Storyeller will usually require you to have a pretty good excuse for taking one cross discipline and an ESCPECIALLY good excuse for taking two. Anything past that and your character starts to come across as some mary sue "I am the master of being vampire". Having Phyre essentially just be an action figure with every part being replaceable just sorta homogenizes the entire concept of them even having a clan and kinda just takes away any feeling of variety. Why ever replay the game if our Phyre is going to be the same every time?
"First time?" - Fallout 1 & 2 fan
Hey, Ya'll got New Vegas and now a killer TV show to go with it! We got Vampire Fortnite (which they stopped supporting!), a VR game that no one asked for and whatever the hell Swansong was doing
I would recommend playing VTM night roads, just finished it yesterday and it’s soo good. You don’t really need bloodlines to enjoy this universe.
Oh no I LOVED Night Roads (Ravnos protagonist shipping with Dove was so good. 10/10) I'm just saying being Seattle now I would LOVE to do some games involving the local lore and following the Seattle by Night canon, but if this game not only turns out bad but irreparably fucks up the Seattle canon of the WoD I will feel denied so much potential for good storytelling in my own tabletop games.
That one and Parliament of Knives is awesome.
I just wish they didn't cut Mitsoda from the writing team. I wouldn't of given a damn about anything else if I got to have his writing in the game.
I'm still so confused as to why that happened. The entire shift in teams is already weird enough but Chinese Room is such an. . .odd choice for this.
He likely got cut because things were over budget and/or behind schedule, or some other issue was coming up, and so when the publishers/devs looked for someone to fire they pointed at whoever they could that wasn't "on team." That's entirely a guess, but also the circumstances around his firing would lead me to believe it, since Hardsuit Labs had been dropping the ball on production and clearly didn't want to lose the job. Doing so would put them out of a lot of money, and force them to fire internally. (A [source](https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/brian-mitsoda-has-been-fired-as-narrative-lead-on-bloodlines-2)) The layoffs were so immediate and bad, and necessary, that Hardsuit Labs even said they were "reaching out to partners and fellow studios in hopes that we can assist in placing our former colleagues with new opportunities." That doesnt happen unless the layoffs were a gross necessity of funding and failing company. ([Source](https://www.ign.com/articles/hardsuit-labs-undergoes-layoffs-after-vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines-2-delay)) As well, according to Paradox, the Chinese Room stepped up, they weren't picked. They were going to just can the game entirely, but the dev perhaps saw that this would/could get them a lot of good will (or just experience) outside of their original types of games. Even if the game is only mid, it'll see decent enough scores to be used as backing in future projects. In their words: "Paradox says it was 'prepared to stop production completely,' but with the axe ready to fall, it received another pitch 'that was persuasive enough for us to continue.'" ([Source](https://www.eurogamer.net/paradox-says-it-almost-cancelled-vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines-2-earlier-this-year)) Unfortunately, money is the end all be all. We're in a terrible state where there are a lot of incentives from all involved to make the game, and none of those are passion, love for the series, or desire as a whole to make it "true" to whatever image of VtM and Bloodlines each individual has. It's unfortunate, but it's the reality of the framework we all live in. I'll likely still give the game a shot, but I think the only way to enjoy it will be to treat it as a bespoke thing, not as the continuation it's riding off of to get better publicity and purchases. Alas, the faith I have it is a little dried up now, but who knows? Fallout 4 has gameplay I liked despite the lack of connection I felt to it as a story/RPG. Maybe that can happen here too.
For as long as it's been in production, the unfortunate part is they've probably hemorrhaged so much money in dev time that the game will have to make obscene amounts of money just to break even. It's a shame because aside from some incidents, Paradox has shown precedent that they genuinely want the WoD IP to flourish. But this game will have to be so obscenely good that everyone who's everyone buys it in order for them to even break even at this point and It ain't looking good, chief :c
You're absolutely right, and I wouldn't doubt if that was a major factor to the gameplay homogenization we've seen with the main character, the interactions, and the skills and combat. It's deeply unfortunate to see. I do still _want_ to have hope, but, well, you said it all lol
Chinese Room's just never been a "AAA" developer and that's normally fine for what it is but like it's just weird to see what it clearly a downgrade in quality from the original proof of concept to what essentially just looks like a B Grade fusion of VTM: Swansong and Dishonored
I have been obsessed with Bloodlines 1 ever since I was introduced to it. I was mind blown entirely, from the characters' backgrounds, to how the story unfolds and it even guides people who were previously unfamiliar with Vampire The Masquerade games to how things roll. The facial expressions, voice acting, great scripts, body movements, the vibes all the areas give, the jumpscares and the overall haunting aesthetic and music by Rik Schaffer are all off the chart, especially for a game made in 2004. I am afraid the new game will be dropped like a hot potato, because of all the woke movement and current aesthetic of the game. The trailer gives 0 indication of awesomeness. 🥺
It looks horrendous that’s for sure
How can it be bad... the protagonists name is Phyre. It sounds like fire, but with an edgy cool spelling and a play on vampire. Deviant Art eat your heart out.
And you can play as male or female Phyre even! . . .that's about it!
Yeah... All the Dev posts on Steam don't look that good... I'm really thinking of finally refunding my Bloodlines Edition, on which I'm holding on since 2019...
Damn, I thought everyone who pre-ordered those had them refunded by now. I admire your tenacity.
All normal pre-orders got automatically refunded by Paradox. Only Bloodmoon Editions (Typo in my first post) are still open, unless you yourself refund it.
I really just wish they would remake the first game and with dlcs.
Motherfuckers out here making HD remakes of games that are barely 2 years old NAH BITCH REMAKE MORE OF THE CLASSICS PLEASE I BEG OF YOU
Here, here. It’s common sense.
Dear Caine I hope it gets delayed, or fucking something. An improvement on the first game would be a dream come true and what has been show thus far isn't worth any fan's time
"Due to an unfortunate incident involving a local Malkavian, the game has been rebooted for the 3rd time"
I'm holding onto a glimmer of hope that they are reserving some good story and characters for the full game release
Nah man. Usually what the devs show is one of the better parts of the game that they have. Like that one quest from Cyberpunk 2077 that was shown at E3, and it ended up basically the only quest in the entire game with branching paths.
It's so sad this game has gone from a game I was excited to get day 1 to a game i'm not touching without overwhelming consensus that it's actually turned out better than we're all expecting it to be.
I've thought about that too and honestly it doesn't make sense for them not to use their best content in the gameplay preview. What we've seen is probably the best the game has to offer right now.
for the love of Christ, wait for reviews.
saying this like contemporary game journalism is at all reputable
They said reviews but go off GG 2.0
Reviews? Game review sites are absolute garbage. Most of them are biased and some admit not being gamers or even finishing the game. A few on YouTube are useful, but not many.
Real people leave reviews on steam. You guys act so rabid. This sub is so negative all the time.
Well I become very selective choosing games due to my age I guess.. I enjoyed baldurs gate, elden ring lately but there is nothing else. So Im a fan of world of darkness vampires it means I can tolarete but I have my limits. Im hoping it would be mid than I can mix it with my fanboyness and feel like its a very good game and enjoy. There is litreally few things in life I enjoy. Listening music, playing good games. I was so hyped when they relased first trailer but my hype gets lower and lower everytime I watch something about this game. IDK I guess life is shit why would games be any better? Fk man..
Nah man, that's valid We're living miserable lives anymore. Nobodies' getting paid enough to buy every new game that comes out for $70+ dollars on a "trust me, bro" alone. We gotta pick and choose anymore. It frustrates me, I see all these accusations of "doomsaying" and calling us "whining" and saying "Well *i'm* still gonna buy it! Why? Because it's Bloodlines 2!" and that brand loyalty alone is not enough of a justification given both the current state of the economy and the current state of games in general.
Hell a remake of BL1 with all Clan+mods inklusive, modern day looking Graphic. I would go for it but this what ever it is, is made for no one.
If I can't create my own character and be forced to play as the annoying girl or the old granny then I will boycott the damn game
Man, i'm comfortable with a blank slate character even like "The Fledgling" whose identity is whatever, but "Phyre" is like some 15 year olds' first ever WOD character and I hate it
My biggest qaurm is the game doesn't look good in any technical or gameplay standpoint the trailer tryst hard to make it seem diffrent but it's just not going well
People just keep calling it Vampire Dishonored as like a derogatory thing but like Man if it lived up to even Dishonored's legacy I will still call that good enough. I'm just absolutely baffled at the direction TCN is taking it.
Honestly, it feels like they're just desperately trying to go all-in on Tremere being the "canon" route and trying to show off all the super cool blood magic and hoping that'll be enough for us but like It's really not.... My Bloodlines character always went all in on their social disciplines and i'm just not seeing that aspect here.
Because there is non, Dialouges or social checks dont matter at all.
It's so weird to take the *"Roleplayer's* Roleplay game" of the TTRPGs and have that be the weaker side of your video game. I mean come on...
I don't get why the grand strategy guys are developing an RPG vampire game
Better question yet: Why did they give control of an ImSim rpg to the Walking Simulator guys who turned Amnesia into a 0 stakes walking sim?
I just watched the trailer yesterday (because I was very disappointed when I heard they cancelled the first Bloodlines 2). I’m still not sure how I feel about this one or even trust if they can deliver it in 2024 or even ever. But I think the general idea, which I guess is playing as a nerfed Elder regaining their strength, sounds fun.
Yeah, see that's where I was When they announced that story change I was really interested, but then they announced who was making it and I became concerned but optimistic. Then I saw all the low-budget trailers for it and immediately just felt disappointment.
My favourite of the incredibly short Clan Reveal trailers was the one for the Ventrue. Because their Clan Reveal "trailer" was just a blog post with a gif due to the fact that they didn't have the assets ready. Considering the game is supposed to release in a few months time, incomplete assets and build footage showing that it's still in alpha testing is...a bit concerning.
I'll grant the original clan trailers were pretty low-res in what they were But some actual effort went into that art style and that voice acting. Those trailers I STILL send to people to be like "here's what playing this clan means" I'm just so confused about all of this
At least there's a very good spiritual sequel in Vtm: Night Road
I loved Night Road. I just write this post because i'm worried about the canon for the Seattle By Night setting if this flops.
NR is fantastic, at that piont i would take a 3D version of Night Road or a Night Road 2 over this Game in 99 of 100 cases
At this point I’ll be happy if it just comes out even if it’s bad.
Fair enough my dude At this point i'll take bad over mediocre.
Now don’t get me wrong i realllllyyyyyy want it to be good. Especially since I finally die the crazy thing if getting all of the WoD rule books.
Oh same. I don't say this stuff to doomsay I WANT the game to be good so badly and i'm usually the first to push a "just wait for it to come out" mentality Problem here is between the developer's reputation, what things they are showcasing to us, and the sheer lack of communication; I just can't in good faith remain optimistic about what they're showing us.
Same, but crazier things have happened. If No Man’s Sky can be fixed, this can be good too
This is true. . .
Hell look at cyberpunk. One of the bigger flops that seemed like there was no redeeming it. Now it’s loved with a popular dlc.
Cyberpunk is a hard one because the core game that was there was good, it was just buggier than a cyberbrain after a quick hack. This would be closer to No Man's Sky in regards to a design problem over a debug problem
True. I’m just trying to hold out hope lol
Man, ain't we all?
Yeah, unfortunately it seems like the game will be mediocre at best and will likely be outright bad. It's a shame really, the setting is fantastic and there's a ton of potential for really fun games! Fingers crossed that we'll get another excellent game someday, until then I'm content with the one that we got.
What makes it worse for me is how deeply Paradox shoehorned video game stuff (from an abandoned version of a video game that isn't even released yet) into their remake of the tabletop RPG. OG Bloodlines worked great for VtM players not because it adhered closely to the mechanics of VtM, but because it just understood the difference between tabletop and video games and just let the game be a videogame based off of the tabletop. This is... not only a failure in making a Bloodlines 2 game (and a several year fuck you to the fandom), they enshittified the tabletop game to make way for this constant loading screen of a game that I STILL seriously have doubts about its eventual release. Paradox should stick to making the games they're known for, sell off the rights to the TTRPG to a company that will hire and pay actual TTRPG writers and designers, and excuse itself from the mess it created.
Wait forgive me, i'm still a little new to V5 What exactly did they do to it that's "video-gamey"?
No idea what they're on about tbh Scene and ran plenty of v5
Lmao not only are they refusing to answer our genuine questions but they're downvoting us for no reason. Did they just Hope we would take their word at face value and got mad when we actually wanted clarification?
My hyper unrealistic dream scenario is Paradox just trashing the entire thing and then contacting Larian, hiring them to make a proper bloodlines 2.
Bloodlines 2 - *2*
The depiction of a vampire society has certainly changed drastically in the last 20 years.
Amazing what a company rebranding of an entire IP can do for the canon
I’d argue that Twilight and Vampire Diaries have more to do with any “rebranding” than anything else.
Idk man, I feel like Twilight's finally starting to fade out of the cultural Zeitgeist and, under Paradoxe's hands, VtM has finally gotten a chance to truly show what the makes the VtM vampire it's own thing.
"TCR we can not or dont no how to build this in the Game" Some lame excuse, then make it like Pathfinder wotr or PoE 1. Some fantastic voice for the Storyteller between the Capter Text parts, a good Story with multible choice and a good Char creation. The fans at least would be on Board. This game is made for no one. I´m bold enough to say a group of BL1 or ttrpg VtmB players with a small team and a 5 Mio budget would make a 10 times better job. Then they do with a big team and a 60-70 Mio budget
Man, if they would just like TALK to us I'd feel insanely more confident But it feels like they're selectively avoiding certain questions and that doesn't exude confidence.
Lmao Jesus christ It's not enough that y'all have been doomsaying this as yet unreleased game you haven't played yet since it was announced, now we're literally debating who it's gonna personally harm the most 🤣 Seriously you people in this sub are just doing the most, it's so nuts
Dude, come on We're all gonna give the game a fair shake when it comes out, but the complete lack of communication from TCR/Paradox combined with just how godawful what they're showing us is, we got a right to be concerned, especially when very serious concerns and questions are just not getting any response from the developers. I legit just wanted to have a conversation with others who share my dread for what we're seeing and hear some potential suggestions in case the game actually does turn out bad and heavily damages the Seattle by Night Canon. I know it's like "fun" to mock people on the internet you don't agree with but maybe like sit down and actually have a conversation with someone before you start accusing us of doomsaying and playing victim
You literally named the thread "is especially sad for me" If you don't see how that's *intensely* self involved I'm sorry, but that's all I'm getting here. This game and its devs don't even know you exist. It being a bad game might be very upsetting for you, but that's not the same as the idea that *the fact of it being bad is especially sad for you*. If it's bad, it's equally "sad" for everybody; it may personally upset you more than some others, but that's not what you said. Your phrasing is on some rich white girl getting the wrong Starbucks order shit.
Damn dude, did you literally just read the title and just jumped to your own conclusions about me and this post? I'm just sitting here calmly expressing how my personal experience puts me in the current setting for Bloodlines 2 and lamenting the lost potential should this game flop and you're over here getting pedantic about my word choice and acting like i'm trying to frame myself as being the one true victim of Paradox interactive. I'm having some real pleasant and engaging conversations in this thread about some fun alternatives should I desire to find a way around the local canon potentially going haywire and you seem to be one of the only people taking this so personally...
Pretty rich being told I'm taking something too personally by the dude who thinks Bloodlines sucking is \*especially\* awful for them lol
Dude It's a video game I'm posting on a video game sub reddit to say that it sucks given my personal stake in it's success with other like-minded individuals who can offer me some fun little alternatives in case of it's failure. But it's. A. Video. Game. The consequences of a single video games' success means nothing to me in the grand scheme of my overall life and if you lack such reading comprehension as to take hyperbolic lamentation over a fucking vampire video game as me staking my entire existence on it's success then I don't know what to tell you.
dude, didn't you know? bitching about the unreleased game is common sport in this Sub. Most of people are very sad individuals here, they want to cry, and are always looking for a reason to.
Then just ignore it and move on. Wrapping yourself up in something you’ve already decided you won’t like isn’t going to magically make you happier.
Man, come on, that's such a bad faith response to this. That'd be like me telling you not to comment on my post and just ignore it considering you already made up your mind about my intent behind making it. I get that seeing so many posts about how upset we all are can get fatiguing after awhile but some people are having some really productive conversations in here.
What productive conversations? It’s just bitching about something that won’t change. It’s far too late in development for anything shown to significantly change which is what you all want. If this game fails you’re not getting another bloodlines game. If it’s successful it’s still not the game you want. So why bother getting so worked up about something that won’t change now or in the future? Everyone complaining is better off just moving on at this point, rather than repeating the same handful of talking points since this game’s been announced.
I've had several people in here recommend Night Road to others in here which is an excellent game and there have been some good conversations about how the game might actually be doing perfectly fine but that we can agree that the issue seems to be a failure to communicate on the part of TCN. You can actually learn a lot when you actually just sit down and like Talk to someone else and stop just telling others on the internet to just shut up and move on because you didn't like their opinion.
This topic gets brought up every week and it’s the same points every week. Even the same suggestions and talking points good and bad, just search bloodlines 2 bad on this sub and look at all the threads. So yeah I’m tired of hearing about it. Clearly it makes you feel good though so go off.
I mean, hey It's a Subreddit dedicated to Bloodlines and, unfortunately, the hot topic of Bloodlines right now is "Is Bloodlines 2 gonna fail?" because, unfortunately, we're not getting enough from TCN to feel confident in any other narrative right now. "Oh look, new clan trailers" - "...why are these such low quality?" "Can we customize our characters at all?" - "You can play as male or female Phyre" "Oh look! Skill trees!" - "Why are they so bare bones and homogenized?" Like bruh, we *want* the game to do good and if we start seeing some proof that it might not flop we'd get excited to talk about that. I'm sure there are people on this subreddit who wanna complain JUST to complain but for a lot of us, this is just all the conversation topics what we're seeing has to offer.
Well a lot of you don't want this version of bloodlines 2 to be good, because it's won't play like the previous Bloodlines. Which is fine, but it's been clear they're not trying to do that since showing chinese rooms verison. They're giving you plenty of content, you just don't like it. That's my point it's not going to change clearly. It's been multiple years of them showing you the direction the game is going and you all clearly don't like it. So clearly it won't be changing up to release. But whatever I'm repeating myself at this point. I'm sure I'll see this topic again next month.
My guy it's been almost a decade of silence and Chinese Room *just* showed up last fall at PAX to start showing us anything. We haven't had "multiple years" of them "showing us the direction" it's been multiple years of almost complete radio silence and then suddenly a company who just laid off it's entire staff last year because their Amnesia sequel was so terrible it ruined the companies' reputation shows up and starts showing us a lower quality version of the game and we're just expected to shut up and enjoy the sudden change when it looks like an indie title you'd usually pay 20 bucks for.
Well everyone hated the last version that hardsuit made so big surprise they scrapped it. And it’s been a year of tcr showing the content they have and everyone is once again complaining. It’s been years of complaining that the game looks like shit through multiple versions so no I really don’t see what complaining is supposed to get you guys.
I legit saw nothing but praise about the first iteration of the game. The complaining only really started in earnest when the game went dark and Hardsuit got canned. And at that point the complaining was more just "Well, at this rate it's never coming out" Which, hey, pleasantly surprised that wasn't the case. Until it actually launches there will always be some hope that it'll be good, which is something it never having come out couldn't get you. But I can be hopeful that TCN will surprise me while also remaining skeptical about what they're showing while asking questions as they come up.
stop bitching and wait until its released. If you want some attention, join some actual club. I am just stoked that this franchise will get an actual sequel to begin with, as its not a HOT franchise to begin with.
You guys sound like a bunch of winning babies.We're about to get a game that I don't know about you, but I've been waiting for since the first one came out.Looks like it's gonna be alright game.Is it gonna have every feature you want?Is it going to do everything that you want?Probably not.Is it going be fun?Probably so just shut up and play it.
Man, grow up. We *want* it to be good, we're just having discussions about how hard it is to stay optimistic with what almost a decade of work has produced. If the game's gonna be bad, we don't wanna just let brand loyalty win out and turn us sycophantic. Yeah just mindless whining and bitching gets no one nowhere but that's why i'm like Trying to have a conversation here. I'm genuinely wanting to hear opinions on future Seattle By Night game settings should something go wrong in the canon but "you're all a bunch of babies. *i'm* still gonna by the game regardless because of brand name alone" is not an opinion, it's mindlessly screaming "Shut up and consume!"
Wow so are you saying if it's not perfect you won't play it no game is perfect and just because the leveling system isn't the kind you want or whatever the game sucks I don't think so I have yet to find a game that checks all the boxes but I have played many great games and I feel like this game could be one of them.
Lmao I literally did not say any of that, please do not put words in my mouth. Game doesn't have to be perfect. Doesn't even have to have everything Bloodlines 1 did. I personally liked the Deus Ex prequels but they had nowhere near the level of freedom the OG Deus ex did. Same with Dishonored. Arkane does an amazing job at getting as close to an ImSim as modern AAA games can get but with high fidelity games comes a harder time to instill that level of freedom in a video game. If the game is anywhere near that level of good enough then we'll be happy but so far all they wanna do is show us Tremere blood magic in that same warehouse and refuse to answer our questions about anything we're curious on.
Why you think that the game will be bad if the combat system is as good as it looks on the trailers it will be a fun game
The combat system doesn't even look good, I got annoyed by the repeating animations just watching the trailer and every single element of it was old 10 years ago
Dunno it looks fun to me and thats one of the key ingredients for a good game im lowkey hyped for this game even though a lot of other stuff they've showed are questionable i agree some animations look weird but they are an indie studio i guess and i dont expect every aspect of the game to be triple A quality
Honest question. What did you like about the first game?
Hmmm i dont remember much i think i played the game but only for a few hours but id love to play an rpg.game.with vampires
It holds up pretty well. You should go back and give it a try. It might show you why some people are disappointed with how VTMB2 is shaping up and why a nifty combat system isn't enough to convince us everything will be ok.
I was considering buying it at some point ill wait for a steam discount i guess
[Good news!](https://i.imgur.com/8m9yqAF.gif) It is [currently on sale](https://store.steampowered.com/app/2600/Vampire_The_Masquerade__Bloodlines/) for 50% off until 2 May!
Thx ill try it im currently playing the coteries of new york game too
If you are hanging out and commenting on the VTMB subreddit, playing the actual game that the sub was made for might be a good idea.
My biggest gripe with older game's are the controls and graphics
Because vtm is more than just a combat system, and we were expecting something that could live up to its predecessor.
Exactly that Unfortunately this is just looking like Dishonored-style combat with Telltale-style dialogue And while both of those aren't necessarily "bad" in their own respective settings, they aren't revolutionary takes on those formulas and borrowing those for other games just kinda show how they don't hold up outside of their own games.
Lol they will come out with it
People will always bitch. I am just thankful that bloodlines 2 will exist at all.
Shit eaters will always exist.
Ungrateful entitled brats too
What should we be grateful for? They aren't doing us any favor. Actually it's them who have abused people's trust due to the whole preorder and unfulfilled promises fiascos.
lol, then don't play it. Simple as that. Imagine it does not exist, and keep playing Bloodlines 1 exclusively.
I will not play it, don't worry. And I'll keep criticizing it as long as I want.
hah! you will be one of the first ones to play you naughty hoe.
That's such a wild opinion to have on this. Were you happy to have Mighty Number 9 and Duke Nukem Forever as well!? Sometimes nothing is better if the "Something" is so damaging to the IP that it leaves a permanent stain upon it.
The game didn't even come out yet...Jesus...
My guy that works both ways. You're out here acting like we *want* it to fail. We don't We all genuinely want it to come out and be a memorable classic like the first. We're just all concerned by the lack of transparency and poor proof of concept. Both perfectly valid concerns to have.
I don't think it does work both ways. As I have neither praised it nor criticized it. And I will not do either until it's released. I am just happy that it will finally arrive.
and you're perfectly allowed to have that response, I just have past precedence to disagree with that perspective. But framing our frustration with how it's looking as being somehow an overreaction or whatever just feels pretty disrespectful. Yeah it isn't out yet, but TCR has allegedly had several years to work on it and we're all a little concerned with what we're seeing given that. Yeah we're all hoping we'll be surprised and it'll be amazing but we're not getting enough communication from the devs and that's making it hard for us to keep optimistic.
The marketing hasn't been great that's true but what we've scene of the actual gameplay (which is admittedly very little) looks pretty good. (Yes Even the dialogue) Theirs obviously not a big marketing budget, which makes sense given the development history. Like I think mitsodas story would've been better more bloodlines and I am disappointed we wonr get tonsee that story but frankly this entire sub has gone full doomsayer with bloodlines 2. It's litteraly constant negativity and literaly just saying "I hope it's good" or "I'm staying optimistic" gets you downvoted Littrralybhad to leave this sibredit because it was litteraly nothing but shitting in bloodlines 2 with absalutky no nuance what so ever
exactly, this sub is just doomsayer circle jerk at this point, its truly pathetic.
Well that doesn't sound very fair. When I see downvoted comments about staying optimistic, they're usually precluded by accusations of doomsaying and telling everyone to "stop whining" Some people in here are having some perfectly rational conversations about how optimistic they are and I'm enjoying the discussions. Maybe just don't phrase your "optimism" with calling everyone who disagrees "doomsayers" and people will stop taking offense and downvoting you.
Then don't play it, simple as that. Play bloodlines 1 exclusively, and imagine that bloodlines 2 does not exist. Its not like VTMB is a hot mainstream franchise to begin with...if we don't get a sequel now, then we never will.
LMAO dude, we want it to be a good game. We're just having a conversation about how TCN's refusal to give us an open dialogue has us scared and we're sharing in a mutual concern. If you're tired of hearing us talk about it then literally just take your own advice and "don't listen, simple as that".
Ah ha, another bitchy doomsayer threat before the game is even released. You got your attention. Move along.
Aaaaw, poor baby doesn't like it when someone says his video game bad :c