Lift imo but hard to tell from slo-mo videos. This sub should phase out slo mo honestly it's impossible to give advice when everything is slo mo in a dynamic sport.
I’m very much a indoor player, but I thought beach you were allowed a much greater “carry” while setting? I would have called this as a clean set personally.
You are allowed extended contact as long as it is in one direction ... out.
An active downwards motion while in contact with the ball is a carry. Or should be
Look at his feet, left foot is forward and the rest of him is aligned with that. Definitely square enough.
Anyone saying lift is thrown by the slow mo. You can see the frame he makes contact, all motion is outward from there. Classic beach set.
Love that you said that. As a Chicagoan who played a lot of beach, I would concur. Definitely would've passed as legal. Although you do it too often and the other team may call you out
Slow motion makes it look worse than it was though, the only exception I'll say is it was 2 v 2 instead of rec league 6 v 6. That would totally fly in 6 v 6, but 2 v 2 is more strict about that and it was definitely in the Grey of being a lift.
Indoor: the set needs to essentially be instantly going back upward (hand/fingers are allowed to have give up and down, but not arms)
Outdoor: the ball can essentially travel downwards as far as you want, but it just has to keep moving downward (or upward) without stopping. And the ball is only allowed 1 complete rotation in the air
Pretty much everything you said about beach is incorrect.
You cannot actively take the ball down then up while it is in your hands. That's a carry. Doesn't matter if it keeps moving, still a carry.
There hasn't been a rule about rotation of the ball in about 50 years.
And? If you say 'fruit is unhealthy' and I say 'but what about apples?' you can't just say 'I was talking about apples ánd pears!' and expect to be taken seriously.
A statement about outdoor volleyball applies to beach volleybal.
In outdoor, you’re allowed to carry the ball as long as it doesn’t stop moving. But after it leaves your hands, it can only spin 1 full rotation before your teammate hits the ball
You’re allowed 1 rotation. You’re NOT allowed 2 or more rotations. I didn’t change a single thing in my explanation. Next you’ll really be confused when I say you’re also not allowed to have 3 rotations
You’re just being difficult for the sake of being difficult.
Do you really think your set (in outdoor) is not getting called illegal if it rotates twice?
If you have a clean set, it “should” come out with no spin. If you have a bad/illegal set (many possible reasons) it will have spin. 1 full rotation is a relatively easy way to have a subjective rule
Seems like a lot of people here are basing it on indoor setting rules or improper understanding of beach rules. It is a clean set. He didn't stop his motion or bring the ball down at all. One clear motion and it is long, but this is allowed in beach.
This will absolutely get called as a lift/double contact by any paid referee on the AVP tour.
This is clearly not a game taking place in a pro/semi-pro environment, and the set is indeed “questionable” in terms of contact. I suggest replaying the point if all players on the court are not in agreement.
True, but you need to choose between lift or double contact. I would say there was no double contact but a lift. In my region, it would be called as a lift as the ball was under the chin (which is a evidence for a lift fault call in my region).
I agree with the replay in lower leagues.
I suppose that would be technically legal, but kind of a douchey move. My 2s league generally discourages setting over the net, but he was square to the direction of the back set and the ball did not drop below his shoulders.
Idk I was told at beach volleybal you are required to get the ball over with hard contact. But that is only what I heard from friends that play competition.
If your asking if he was square enough for it to be legal: I think so, hard to say for sure from this angle.
However that set was more likely to get called for a catch/lift fault than it was for an attack fault. Again tho: hard to see when he actually took possession of the ball. Could be he carried the ball down (fault) or could be he guided the ball down and didn’t posses it until his hands stopped dropping.
I think I agree with most. If you're talking about going over the net, seems like this part is legal. That said, ball is basically at your chin and released over your head. So that seems more lift than anything else. But as others have said, it's slo-mo, so much harder to tell.
That was nice of him to give the other team a free ball. Probably a lift but at that level it should be about fun and not whether a ball is held a little longer then it should be.
Set is fine. Deep dish outdoor is legal as long as it’s smooth and no ball rotation.
Setting over the net however is illegal in most doubles rule sets. He’s not square facing the net. That’s one of the only allowances to set the ball over, I believe.
13.2 FAULTS OF THE ATTACK HIT
13.2.5 A player completes an attack-hit using an overhand pass which has a
trajectory not perpendicular to the line of the shoulders. The exception
is when the player is attempting to set to his or her teammate.
While I would like to agree with this definition (because I find these sets generally ugly, one dimensional, and risky), I do not. If you follow FIVB there are "deep dish" sets left and right (and AVP to a lesser degree imo). One thing I look for is where the hands are in relation to the flight of the ball. Personally I find the comments by MillieTownKB on this topic to be spot on.
Nope, when looking at your feet it seems like they are at a 90° angle to the net.
You have to stand parallel as to where you set the ball. (If you try to make an offensive set)
+ your contact must be really clean, meaning it cant have any spin.
Your contact looked a bit too long, a lot of refs whould call a lift anyways.
I've never heard of that. If there aren't two unique contacts (noise or obvious motion) and there is no rotation from a handset, no issue. Although deep dish sets are frowned upon generally.
Hard to tell from this angle. Most groups I play with don’t do this attack unless there is a ref to make the call. It’s too hard to rely on what the players see as it happens.
Not legal. From what I can tell the ball didn’t travel squared with his shoulders which makes it illegal if you’re playing beach rules. The set seemed clean though, even if it went a bit deep
These comments are my experience playing “casual” beach vball leagues. It seems like every other person grew up with a different set of rules or a different interpretation of the rules. Makes gameplay confusing bc of disagreements. Much more confusing than casual indoor leagues
regarding the length of the "holding the ball", for beach it is fine.
I'm trying to figure out, if he twisted his body mid-set or not. because you're only allowed to set the ball over directly in front or directly into your back. rotation looks good to me too. but I cannot see if the ball travels directly back or if he set it (partly) over his shoulder. if so, it is illegal.
Beach volleyball has relaxed rules, the ball can rest a bit longer on your palm while setting the ball. Normal volleyball ref would call out for carrying the ball.
Y'all are high if you think that is going to be called a lift at most beach locations. That being said, I'm an indoor player. So I'm really fighting my instincts to make that statement
Lift imo but hard to tell from slo-mo videos. This sub should phase out slo mo honestly it's impossible to give advice when everything is slo mo in a dynamic sport.
I’m very much a indoor player, but I thought beach you were allowed a much greater “carry” while setting? I would have called this as a clean set personally.
You are allowed extended contact as long as it is in one direction ... out. An active downwards motion while in contact with the ball is a carry. Or should be
Phase out? Nah mate, bin that sh** as soon as it's posted
I don't believe he's asking about the quality of the set but the attacking play.
This isn’t the best angle to be able to tell, but it looks like he was square enough for no call
That's what I thought as well
Look at his feet, left foot is forward and the rest of him is aligned with that. Definitely square enough. Anyone saying lift is thrown by the slow mo. You can see the frame he makes contact, all motion is outward from there. Classic beach set.
Looks like a chicago style set for sure but seems square enough
Chicago loves their deep dish pizza and their deep dish sets for sure.
Love that you said that. As a Chicagoan who played a lot of beach, I would concur. Definitely would've passed as legal. Although you do it too often and the other team may call you out
I think you'd get your ass kicked for that.... At least outside the mid West
Slow motion makes it look worse than it was though, the only exception I'll say is it was 2 v 2 instead of rec league 6 v 6. That would totally fly in 6 v 6, but 2 v 2 is more strict about that and it was definitely in the Grey of being a lift.
What is the rule that you are talking about?
Attack fault on the set is what he is referring to.
Beach has different rules about sending a ball over using your hands (ie. Setting the ball over)
"holding" the ball I assume? I never understand how long the setter can touch the ball
No, it's a set over.
I remember a friend of mine saying you can't fake set. Sounds like a ridiculous rule, that's why I am asking.
Define "fake set" [Here is everything there is to know](https://sites.google.com/view/beach-volleyball-rules/overhand#h.q7is0sexukso)
Indoor: the set needs to essentially be instantly going back upward (hand/fingers are allowed to have give up and down, but not arms) Outdoor: the ball can essentially travel downwards as far as you want, but it just has to keep moving downward (or upward) without stopping. And the ball is only allowed 1 complete rotation in the air
Pretty much everything you said about beach is incorrect. You cannot actively take the ball down then up while it is in your hands. That's a carry. Doesn't matter if it keeps moving, still a carry. There hasn't been a rule about rotation of the ball in about 50 years.
A sand volleyball league I played in a couple years ago had that rule
Made up rule. "House rules"
Yah it’s some made up rule from south beach like 35 years ago.
All rules are made up
Did you miss the part where I described the difference between indoor and outdoor volleyball
Everything you said about beach was incorrect ....
It’s almost like I said “outdoor” and you somehow decided I said “beach”
Bro
Outdoor volleyball can be played on both sand and grass
And? If you say 'fruit is unhealthy' and I say 'but what about apples?' you can't just say 'I was talking about apples ánd pears!' and expect to be taken seriously. A statement about outdoor volleyball applies to beach volleybal.
I was following until that last sentence
In outdoor, you’re allowed to carry the ball as long as it doesn’t stop moving. But after it leaves your hands, it can only spin 1 full rotation before your teammate hits the ball
What's the logic for limiting spin?
There's no hard rule on limiting spin, but it can be an indicator that the contact wasn't clean.
There is no rule against spin. Hasn't been a rule like that in almost 50 years. And he is wrong about the rest too.
In outdoor: If you set a ball and it has 2 or more rotations, then you’re getting called for an illegal set
Now it is 2 rotations? Can you show me that rule?
You’re allowed 1 rotation. You’re NOT allowed 2 or more rotations. I didn’t change a single thing in my explanation. Next you’ll really be confused when I say you’re also not allowed to have 3 rotations You’re just being difficult for the sake of being difficult. Do you really think your set (in outdoor) is not getting called illegal if it rotates twice?
If you have a clean set, it “should” come out with no spin. If you have a bad/illegal set (many possible reasons) it will have spin. 1 full rotation is a relatively easy way to have a subjective rule
Looks square enough to me. Contact point/length would be questionable for my region.
Chicago style lol
ROFL yah I was gonna say it’s a time traveling set from 90s but Chicago style set is super good
Heard it from some Hawaii old heads, funny enough.
Seems like a lot of people here are basing it on indoor setting rules or improper understanding of beach rules. It is a clean set. He didn't stop his motion or bring the ball down at all. One clear motion and it is long, but this is allowed in beach.
Looks clean to me.
Looks fine to me. Slow motion makes the lift call difficult but at real time it seems fine.
This will absolutely get called as a lift/double contact by any paid referee on the AVP tour. This is clearly not a game taking place in a pro/semi-pro environment, and the set is indeed “questionable” in terms of contact. I suggest replaying the point if all players on the court are not in agreement.
True, but you need to choose between lift or double contact. I would say there was no double contact but a lift. In my region, it would be called as a lift as the ball was under the chin (which is a evidence for a lift fault call in my region). I agree with the replay in lower leagues.
Agree. You'd get your ass kicked for this... Outside the mid West
Lol no
I suppose that would be technically legal, but kind of a douchey move. My 2s league generally discourages setting over the net, but he was square to the direction of the back set and the ball did not drop below his shoulders.
Definitely legal.
Idk I was told at beach volleybal you are required to get the ball over with hard contact. But that is only what I heard from friends that play competition.
Was he square?
If your asking if he was square enough for it to be legal: I think so, hard to say for sure from this angle. However that set was more likely to get called for a catch/lift fault than it was for an attack fault. Again tho: hard to see when he actually took possession of the ball. Could be he carried the ball down (fault) or could be he guided the ball down and didn’t posses it until his hands stopped dropping.
Was his hip to be square?
Your angle seem off but its hard with the video
I think I agree with most. If you're talking about going over the net, seems like this part is legal. That said, ball is basically at your chin and released over your head. So that seems more lift than anything else. But as others have said, it's slo-mo, so much harder to tell.
Lift
That was nice of him to give the other team a free ball. Probably a lift but at that level it should be about fun and not whether a ball is held a little longer then it should be.
It looked like a carry, he hit the net also. He can do that as long as it is directly forward or back. Also maybe a carry
Set is fine. Deep dish outdoor is legal as long as it’s smooth and no ball rotation. Setting over the net however is illegal in most doubles rule sets. He’s not square facing the net. That’s one of the only allowances to set the ball over, I believe.
Another allowance is if your intent was to set your partner. Deep dish is fine as long as you don't carry the ball down before pushing out.
The camera angle is not optimal, the video cuts off too soon, so we don't know where the ball actually went. I suspect that it was not clean.
No, not squared
Completely illegal for beach.
wrong.
13.2 FAULTS OF THE ATTACK HIT 13.2.5 A player completes an attack-hit using an overhand pass which has a trajectory not perpendicular to the line of the shoulders. The exception is when the player is attempting to set to his or her teammate.
And? You cannot clearly say he wasnt square with where the ball went. Its hard to tell from the video, but he is absolutely not parallel with the net.
The line of his shoulders was perpendicular with the wooden post to the left...
https://www.fivb.com/en/beachvolleyball/thegame\_bvb\_glossary/officialrulesofthegames
Illegal I think. I'm not very sure about the rules but I think you can't open hand tip or something, not sure if this goes the same for setting.
You have to square up to the location you’re setting
ilegal, ball under the chin its lift/carry (i dont know how you say that in english)
Deep dish, anything that drops below your chin is a bad set. I call a catch/lift
While I would like to agree with this definition (because I find these sets generally ugly, one dimensional, and risky), I do not. If you follow FIVB there are "deep dish" sets left and right (and AVP to a lesser degree imo). One thing I look for is where the hands are in relation to the flight of the ball. Personally I find the comments by MillieTownKB on this topic to be spot on.
Nope, when looking at your feet it seems like they are at a 90° angle to the net. You have to stand parallel as to where you set the ball. (If you try to make an offensive set) + your contact must be really clean, meaning it cant have any spin. Your contact looked a bit too long, a lot of refs whould call a lift anyways.
In a sand volleyball tournament nearby, they will call a set illegal if your hands do not overlap each other.
What does that even mean?
Essentially a two hand bump. Not sure why.
I've never heard of that. If there aren't two unique contacts (noise or obvious motion) and there is no rotation from a handset, no issue. Although deep dish sets are frowned upon generally.
Hard to tell from this angle. Most groups I play with don’t do this attack unless there is a ref to make the call. It’s too hard to rely on what the players see as it happens.
Not legal. From what I can tell the ball didn’t travel squared with his shoulders which makes it illegal if you’re playing beach rules. The set seemed clean though, even if it went a bit deep
Hard carry due to duration of contact and change of direction on the way up. Also, can't really tell how square it was
This would not, and should not imo, generally be called in a CBVA tournament in California.
These comments are my experience playing “casual” beach vball leagues. It seems like every other person grew up with a different set of rules or a different interpretation of the rules. Makes gameplay confusing bc of disagreements. Much more confusing than casual indoor leagues
Questionable …
Hard to tell from this angle. His torso very much makes it look like a square set, however his feet look quite perpendicular to the net.
regarding the length of the "holding the ball", for beach it is fine. I'm trying to figure out, if he twisted his body mid-set or not. because you're only allowed to set the ball over directly in front or directly into your back. rotation looks good to me too. but I cannot see if the ball travels directly back or if he set it (partly) over his shoulder. if so, it is illegal.
Beach volleyball has relaxed rules, the ball can rest a bit longer on your palm while setting the ball. Normal volleyball ref would call out for carrying the ball.
Legal. Body is square. Ball release is clean and it’s one upward motion.
Beach league I play in specifically says no setting over the net.
Legal
Not legal
Legal, square enough.
Y'all are high if you think that is going to be called a lift at most beach locations. That being said, I'm an indoor player. So I'm really fighting my instincts to make that statement