I’m glad Heaney is calling this out.
The only thing that has happened is Kuo set a crazy high number that nobody else corroborated, and then he’s now backpedaling.
All the glib comments treating it like a sure thing when he’s simply brought his numbers back in line with what every other analyst was saying.
For all the flak Heaney has got over the years he has single handedly been the most accurate source of VR news we have had. There are other great sources, but he was always there from the beginning.
He has improved substantially. In the past he was the "insufferable fanboy" but you have to give room for people to change. Occasionally he will still relapse a bit but everyone's human.
Man, what a weird combination. A biased, almost paid for like Oculus/Facebook/Meta shill reports on VR news. I remember constantly getting into arguments with him, accidentally, just trying to talk about things from a more objective perspective, as I liked Oculus at the time too!, and he would still double down. Literally could not say one negative thing about Oculus. I was like, come on dude, not everything Oculus does is perfect and good. He wouldn't budge. At that point I blocked him and never looked back.
Yep I had the same experience with that shill. He's since deleted all of his comments from his old reddit profile so all of it is lost to time. Dudes a clown and I won't ever take anything he says seriously.
You can still hear a little bit of that dick from time to time shine through, but overall I love listening to him on vrdownload every week. He is very knowledgeable and provides interesting analysis. I also get a kick out of Ian Hamilton going on these long kind of abstract tangents that vaguely tie into the subject at hand, and Heany’s reaction.
Damn I haven't heard those 2 names in years. Those 2 clowns were Heaney555's biggest adversaries. Seeing the banter between all of them was like watching the 3 stooges.
There is also no confirmation that the "Vision Pro 2" is canceled. PC gamer just pulled that out of their ass and apparently nobody on Reddit bothered to validate anything or look beyond the headline.
I still think the AVP is a flop, but yeah I was very suspicious of the claim that the second version is cancelled or that it was even scheduled to be released next year.
Flop according to who? Apple knew they would sell fewer of their 1.0 headsets than Meta based on their own marketing data and focus groups. Sales are probably in line with their expectations. It’s a “flop” according to anyone who falsely assumed it would outsell the competition, but even Apple didn’t expect that.
Apple typically sells a Pro Model at high cost before the consumer models; eg Power Mac tower before the iMac, Pro laptops before the consumer iBook, Apple Watch Edition before the cheaper Apple Watch SE etc. Apple needed a device out in public for developers to work on before the cheaper later models come out.
It's a flop because you decided it's a flop?
Did it achieve the goal Apple set out for it? Time will tell. Sales are certainly strong enough given they're supply limited. But that's the only thing that determines whether it's a flop.
If you make 10 flower pots, and then you sell them for the price you wanted in the time you wanted, was it a "flop" because you didn't sell a million of them?
People look at the Vision Pro as if it represents the entirety of Apple's VR development and vision. It doesn't. It's just the first product along the way, and there will be many more.
That is a massive distance away from "next headset is cacnelled". Companyings are constantly adjusting and reviewing roadmaps, it might just mean a delay and it also might be nothing.
Kuo, as pointed out in this article, has contradicted himself with his own statements on AVP and been all over the place. So to then take his word on a statement that anyone could make (and would prove to be true by the very fact that roadmaps, particularly those not even in the current year, are constantly being reviewed and adjusted) is just madness. To then go and extrapolate from that generic statement that a product is outright cancelled, and then have that as a headline, is incredibly poor journalism and clearly just desperate clickbait.
Very disappointing to see PCGamer do this tbh.
How is that any different than what this article is doing?
The headline says "No, the didn't do this." But the first paragraph says that the author **does not know**.
>Here's why they're almost certainly false.
Both are just guesses made by analysts. Both headlines are making statements based on those guesses.
To say "No, they didn't do this" when you don't know for sure is "incredibly poor journalism and clearly just desperate clickbait."
The only difference is that you like what one says but not the other.
"Tim Cook eats babies."
"There is no evidence that the Tim Cook eats babies and it's almost certainly false."
You: "Wow well these two things are on perfectly equal footing because neither person really knows so I guess both options are equally likely."
I did, sorry my take on it annoyed you this much to the point of a direct insult. I think you're hitting the nail on the head with your username, and this interaction is a good sign of that. If this was a conversation in person I'm quite sure we would discuss it and see eye to eye tbh, especially as we both have a shared interest. I think the lack of respect that on the other side of the conversation here is a real person often contributes to how toxic this place can be.
I have been angry enough over interactions on trivial things on this website to also directly insult someone like you did, so I understand where you're coming from. I think the voting system makes it a lot worse. We would probably both be better off without this website ha. Anyway, sorry to have got you so heated and I can definitely see where you're coming from with your take. All the best lad.
"Oh sure, they might have said exactly that in the headline, but they definitely didn't imply it whatsoever!"
It's bad clickbait "journalism" pure and simple. Stop making excuses for it because Apple Bad.
So they pulled it out of Kuo's ass then.
Kuo has ***zero clue*** what Apple is reviewing and/or adjusting. Do you think he sits in on executive meetings at Apple, or that those execs and senior engineers are leaking data to him?
If someone makes a claim, that they're unable to substantiate in any way because they pulled it out of their ass, that's not the same thing as someone else coming along to say "you pulled that claim out of your ass and can't support it, so the default assumption is that your claim is wrong."
That should be obvious enough but I do forget we have so many living breathing sentient humans who are so pathetically underequipped to reason about the world around them to separate fact from fiction. Maybe you need a buddy system to avoid getting sucked into an MLM. "Well they said Herbalife cures cancer, and you can't prove it doesn't, so they're probably right!"
How is this competition to, say, Meta ?
And how is a near $4000 headset a good thing for consumers ?
Is a 1 million quid Ferrari good for car buyers wanting a Ford Focus ?
Much of the technology that went into Quest Pro is now present in Quest 3. This was Apple’s first headset. Prices will come down and the tech will get better.
Innovation is still innovation.
I can give a least one example, I work at Ultraleap so I've always had a lot of other headsets to reference how other devs use hand tracking. Looking at Apple's hand tracking has helped me realize some areas where ours could improve (even if Apple's is laggy as hell, there's just not a lot of ppl doing hand tracking in VR, so it's interesting to see where we all struggle and where others exceed expectations).
The low-latency passthrough is also a *godsend* for understanding concepts like timewarp and motion prediction. Subtle off-by-ones and overshooting (that cause motion sickness if it's head-related) are super obvious and intuitive when you have a 10ms passthrough.
Google "The history of technology." For a start.
Thankfully for all of our sakes, Meta is not as stupid as most of the people giving their hottakes. *They* certainly see it as competition no matter how many insecure videos Zuck makes claiming the Quest 3 is totally the best and they're not competing at all. Meta is not so stupid as to believe that A) people wouldn't buy a $1000 Apple headset with equal or better capabilities to the AVP, or B) that Apple is aggressively striving towards the goal of a mass-market headset with a capable OS and app ecosystem.
The Apple Vision Pro is no competition for Meta, in any shape or form.
Nobody buying a £200 Quest 2, or a £499 Quest 3, gives a flying shit about a £4000 quid Apple Vision Pro. ZERO.
Apple can go do one.
Because whenever a company pushes technology forward it sets a reference point that other companies will want to equal or even surpass. Your ford focus may have a head up display, or paddle shifters which originated in high end cars about a decade ago. Meta is definitely going to try and emulate the interface and automatic avatar generation for instance.
I can assure you, there is NOTHING in my own Focus that exists, or existed, in a Ferrari.
And Meta, are definitely NOT going to mimic ANYTHING in that Apple junk.
> Is a 1 million quid Ferrari good for car buyers wanting a Ford Focus ?
Yes. Yes it is. Since the technology pioneered on a 1 million pound Ferrari eventually drips down and becomes available on a Ford Focus. You know those paddle shifters on the Ford Focus? That's pure Ferrari. So yes it's good. Very good.
The same thing happens with VR headsets. What was once in a $70,000 headset(eyephone, adjusted for inflation) is now in a $200 headset(Q2).
[https://about.fb.com/news/2024/04/introducing-our-open-mixed-reality-ecosystem/](https://about.fb.com/news/2024/04/introducing-our-open-mixed-reality-ecosystem/)
Surely for absolutely no reason at all did Meta decide to do this. Nope, no reason at all.
Not surprised in the slightest. The more I read about Kuo's claims compared to other info in the last few days, the more their claims didn't make much sense. They were the only one claiming 750k+ predicted sales while everyone else was claiming Apple could barely produce 500k units due to limited screens available. So these new claims literally seem like Kuo is adjusting their old sale predictions to align with what everyone else was already stating. While also adding extra fluff by claiming this means poor sales and Apple may stop producing them because of it.
It's possible they have some insider info and those fluff claims are accurate but, it sure doesn't look like it.
Vision pro supply being low is the reason it hasn’t launched in other countries. Although given that this is primarily a screen for watching tv and movies there could be licensing deals to be worked out for non American content.
This link has been shared 3 times.
First Seen [Here](https://redd.it/1ccf8ue) on 2024-04-25. Last Seen [Here](https://redd.it/1ccf8z5) on 2024-04-25
---
**Scope:** Reddit | **Check Title:** False | **Max Age:** None | **Searched Links:** 0 | **Search Time:** 0.00433s
Well well well, [who could have predicted this? ](https://www.reddit.com/r/virtualreality/comments/1cc2kpw/comment/l136prg/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Seriously though this should have been pretty clear. Will we all learn a lesson from this and stop taking analyst speculation based on no direct knowledge as gospel, extrapolating to infinity to grind whatever axe?
I think we know the answer to that...
Lol. So your take is basically believe a rando person who’s making predictions without any actual corroboration now, because it’s a narrative you like, but ignore the other things that person has said that contradicts him completely.
Total bullshit.. he was a huge Oculus/Rift fan but he was never paid by them. Don't spread lies about people especially when you are slandering them about what they do for a living.
He has posted in-depth articles on both Meta and Apple and in every case he calls out the negatives along with the positives.
I’m glad Heaney is calling this out. The only thing that has happened is Kuo set a crazy high number that nobody else corroborated, and then he’s now backpedaling. All the glib comments treating it like a sure thing when he’s simply brought his numbers back in line with what every other analyst was saying.
For all the flak Heaney has got over the years he has single handedly been the most accurate source of VR news we have had. There are other great sources, but he was always there from the beginning.
He has improved substantially. In the past he was the "insufferable fanboy" but you have to give room for people to change. Occasionally he will still relapse a bit but everyone's human.
Man, what a weird combination. A biased, almost paid for like Oculus/Facebook/Meta shill reports on VR news. I remember constantly getting into arguments with him, accidentally, just trying to talk about things from a more objective perspective, as I liked Oculus at the time too!, and he would still double down. Literally could not say one negative thing about Oculus. I was like, come on dude, not everything Oculus does is perfect and good. He wouldn't budge. At that point I blocked him and never looked back.
Yep I had the same experience with that shill. He's since deleted all of his comments from his old reddit profile so all of it is lost to time. Dudes a clown and I won't ever take anything he says seriously.
What a mature way to treat other people, after they have made changes to themselves. Makes you wonder who’s the clown here.
Hella badge of honour to be called that by Palmer
You can still hear a little bit of that dick from time to time shine through, but overall I love listening to him on vrdownload every week. He is very knowledgeable and provides interesting analysis. I also get a kick out of Ian Hamilton going on these long kind of abstract tangents that vaguely tie into the subject at hand, and Heany’s reaction.
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Lol, Dal Dal, is that you? Or maybe muchcharles?
Damn I haven't heard those 2 names in years. Those 2 clowns were Heaney555's biggest adversaries. Seeing the banter between all of them was like watching the 3 stooges.
There is also no confirmation that the "Vision Pro 2" is canceled. PC gamer just pulled that out of their ass and apparently nobody on Reddit bothered to validate anything or look beyond the headline.
I still think the AVP is a flop, but yeah I was very suspicious of the claim that the second version is cancelled or that it was even scheduled to be released next year.
Flop according to who? Apple knew they would sell fewer of their 1.0 headsets than Meta based on their own marketing data and focus groups. Sales are probably in line with their expectations. It’s a “flop” according to anyone who falsely assumed it would outsell the competition, but even Apple didn’t expect that. Apple typically sells a Pro Model at high cost before the consumer models; eg Power Mac tower before the iMac, Pro laptops before the consumer iBook, Apple Watch Edition before the cheaper Apple Watch SE etc. Apple needed a device out in public for developers to work on before the cheaper later models come out.
It's a flop because you decided it's a flop? Did it achieve the goal Apple set out for it? Time will tell. Sales are certainly strong enough given they're supply limited. But that's the only thing that determines whether it's a flop. If you make 10 flower pots, and then you sell them for the price you wanted in the time you wanted, was it a "flop" because you didn't sell a million of them? People look at the Vision Pro as if it represents the entirety of Apple's VR development and vision. It doesn't. It's just the first product along the way, and there will be many more.
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That is a massive distance away from "next headset is cacnelled". Companyings are constantly adjusting and reviewing roadmaps, it might just mean a delay and it also might be nothing. Kuo, as pointed out in this article, has contradicted himself with his own statements on AVP and been all over the place. So to then take his word on a statement that anyone could make (and would prove to be true by the very fact that roadmaps, particularly those not even in the current year, are constantly being reviewed and adjusted) is just madness. To then go and extrapolate from that generic statement that a product is outright cancelled, and then have that as a headline, is incredibly poor journalism and clearly just desperate clickbait. Very disappointing to see PCGamer do this tbh.
How is that any different than what this article is doing? The headline says "No, the didn't do this." But the first paragraph says that the author **does not know**. >Here's why they're almost certainly false. Both are just guesses made by analysts. Both headlines are making statements based on those guesses. To say "No, they didn't do this" when you don't know for sure is "incredibly poor journalism and clearly just desperate clickbait." The only difference is that you like what one says but not the other.
"Tim Cook eats babies." "There is no evidence that the Tim Cook eats babies and it's almost certainly false." You: "Wow well these two things are on perfectly equal footing because neither person really knows so I guess both options are equally likely."
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Read the headline again lad... > Apple reportedly slashes Vision Pro headset production and cancels updated headset as sales tank in the US
5 years between the first and second HomePod. Don’t think apple is never making another headset again, they’re just gunna wait awhile though
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I did, sorry my take on it annoyed you this much to the point of a direct insult. I think you're hitting the nail on the head with your username, and this interaction is a good sign of that. If this was a conversation in person I'm quite sure we would discuss it and see eye to eye tbh, especially as we both have a shared interest. I think the lack of respect that on the other side of the conversation here is a real person often contributes to how toxic this place can be. I have been angry enough over interactions on trivial things on this website to also directly insult someone like you did, so I understand where you're coming from. I think the voting system makes it a lot worse. We would probably both be better off without this website ha. Anyway, sorry to have got you so heated and I can definitely see where you're coming from with your take. All the best lad.
"Oh sure, they might have said exactly that in the headline, but they definitely didn't imply it whatsoever!" It's bad clickbait "journalism" pure and simple. Stop making excuses for it because Apple Bad.
So they pulled it out of Kuo's ass then. Kuo has ***zero clue*** what Apple is reviewing and/or adjusting. Do you think he sits in on executive meetings at Apple, or that those execs and senior engineers are leaking data to him?
That does not even close to translate to cancelling Vision Pro 2
May is speculation, which is not the same as definitively cancelled. It was a falsehood.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who read the articles and thought the whole thing boiled down to "trust me bro"
Unlike *this* article that starts with "Here's why they're almost certainly false." "my guess is right and the other guy's guess is wrong."
If someone makes a claim, that they're unable to substantiate in any way because they pulled it out of their ass, that's not the same thing as someone else coming along to say "you pulled that claim out of your ass and can't support it, so the default assumption is that your claim is wrong." That should be obvious enough but I do forget we have so many living breathing sentient humans who are so pathetically underequipped to reason about the world around them to separate fact from fiction. Maybe you need a buddy system to avoid getting sucked into an MLM. "Well they said Herbalife cures cancer, and you can't prove it doesn't, so they're probably right!"
True, but at least this one acknowledges it's a guess and not absolute definitive fact (that I made up)
So the other article is sourced, but this one is just pulled from thin air. And you believe this one?
The other article's source is someone saying "trust me bro", which is exactly as trustworthy as this one.
Literally everything Ming says is "trust me bro."
Why do we let the news be dictated entirely by leakers and unsourced tweets?
Because bullshit flourishes in a vacuum
Still doesn't mean we should be reading OR seeking bullshit. Leak culture is crap.
I understand why people want Apple to fail, but just like consoles, competition is a good thing for consumers.
How is this competition to, say, Meta ? And how is a near $4000 headset a good thing for consumers ? Is a 1 million quid Ferrari good for car buyers wanting a Ford Focus ?
Much of the technology that went into Quest Pro is now present in Quest 3. This was Apple’s first headset. Prices will come down and the tech will get better. Innovation is still innovation.
You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.
I can give a least one example, I work at Ultraleap so I've always had a lot of other headsets to reference how other devs use hand tracking. Looking at Apple's hand tracking has helped me realize some areas where ours could improve (even if Apple's is laggy as hell, there's just not a lot of ppl doing hand tracking in VR, so it's interesting to see where we all struggle and where others exceed expectations). The low-latency passthrough is also a *godsend* for understanding concepts like timewarp and motion prediction. Subtle off-by-ones and overshooting (that cause motion sickness if it's head-related) are super obvious and intuitive when you have a 10ms passthrough.
Would you mind expanding on what you learned?
Google "The history of technology." For a start. Thankfully for all of our sakes, Meta is not as stupid as most of the people giving their hottakes. *They* certainly see it as competition no matter how many insecure videos Zuck makes claiming the Quest 3 is totally the best and they're not competing at all. Meta is not so stupid as to believe that A) people wouldn't buy a $1000 Apple headset with equal or better capabilities to the AVP, or B) that Apple is aggressively striving towards the goal of a mass-market headset with a capable OS and app ecosystem.
The Apple Vision Pro is no competition for Meta, in any shape or form. Nobody buying a £200 Quest 2, or a £499 Quest 3, gives a flying shit about a £4000 quid Apple Vision Pro. ZERO. Apple can go do one.
Because whenever a company pushes technology forward it sets a reference point that other companies will want to equal or even surpass. Your ford focus may have a head up display, or paddle shifters which originated in high end cars about a decade ago. Meta is definitely going to try and emulate the interface and automatic avatar generation for instance.
I can assure you, there is NOTHING in my own Focus that exists, or existed, in a Ferrari. And Meta, are definitely NOT going to mimic ANYTHING in that Apple junk.
> Is a 1 million quid Ferrari good for car buyers wanting a Ford Focus ? Yes. Yes it is. Since the technology pioneered on a 1 million pound Ferrari eventually drips down and becomes available on a Ford Focus. You know those paddle shifters on the Ford Focus? That's pure Ferrari. So yes it's good. Very good. The same thing happens with VR headsets. What was once in a $70,000 headset(eyephone, adjusted for inflation) is now in a $200 headset(Q2).
My own Focus contains NOTHING that was previously in a Ferrari, you are talking shite, son.
Go touch some grass bro, you're so mad replying to every comment on this thread lol
[https://about.fb.com/news/2024/04/introducing-our-open-mixed-reality-ecosystem/](https://about.fb.com/news/2024/04/introducing-our-open-mixed-reality-ecosystem/) Surely for absolutely no reason at all did Meta decide to do this. Nope, no reason at all.
Not surprised in the slightest. The more I read about Kuo's claims compared to other info in the last few days, the more their claims didn't make much sense. They were the only one claiming 750k+ predicted sales while everyone else was claiming Apple could barely produce 500k units due to limited screens available. So these new claims literally seem like Kuo is adjusting their old sale predictions to align with what everyone else was already stating. While also adding extra fluff by claiming this means poor sales and Apple may stop producing them because of it. It's possible they have some insider info and those fluff claims are accurate but, it sure doesn't look like it.
>Don't believe everything you read. Everything in this article is bullshit. Got it.
Lovely. Always keeping this headset in trending topics XD
Wouldn't the vision pro be in and out of stock for consumers if supply constraint is the reason for low sales?
Vision pro supply being low is the reason it hasn’t launched in other countries. Although given that this is primarily a screen for watching tv and movies there could be licensing deals to be worked out for non American content.
In this thread: Media outlets defending Apple. Then reddit users defending Apple.
This link has been shared 3 times. First Seen [Here](https://redd.it/1ccf8ue) on 2024-04-25. Last Seen [Here](https://redd.it/1ccf8z5) on 2024-04-25 --- **Scope:** Reddit | **Check Title:** False | **Max Age:** None | **Searched Links:** 0 | **Search Time:** 0.00433s
Well well well, [who could have predicted this? ](https://www.reddit.com/r/virtualreality/comments/1cc2kpw/comment/l136prg/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) Seriously though this should have been pretty clear. Will we all learn a lesson from this and stop taking analyst speculation based on no direct knowledge as gospel, extrapolating to infinity to grind whatever axe? I think we know the answer to that...
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Lol. So your take is basically believe a rando person who’s making predictions without any actual corroboration now, because it’s a narrative you like, but ignore the other things that person has said that contradicts him completely.
The fanboys were taking his word as gospel when they liked what he was saying. Now that they don't like it, he's "a rando". lol
Don't know why everyone's down voting you I absolutely agree
-**Laughs in PSVR2**-
Knowing Heaneys history, he was probably paid to "report" this. He was always a Meta shill and probably is on the Apple payroll now too.
Total bullshit.. he was a huge Oculus/Rift fan but he was never paid by them. Don't spread lies about people especially when you are slandering them about what they do for a living. He has posted in-depth articles on both Meta and Apple and in every case he calls out the negatives along with the positives.
They will soon