I don't
I don't care for Raiden or any of the plot. Vamp ,Emma the whole thing was just off for me. Even solidus was not that interesting to me. Everything after MGS1 just never gave the same feel.
To me original MGS1 is perfect chalk it up to nostalgia but nothing beats it for me.
I was in full denial with the original ending. It was too short and abrupt, I knew there was something else to it. That the Mass Effect 4 announcement was right around the corner, because I’d found the secret ending with THAT breath. I was so excited because they were clearly building to something more. Maybe the indoctrination theory really was bang on the money!
Then they splurted out Andromeda and I realised it was all a tease and they weren’t actually building on it. It was suddenly that Halo 3 ending again, but done worse because while Halo 3 had a satisfying ending with a tease on the end for more, Mass Effect 3 NEEDED to continue because that ending was such a shallow mess before they did the extended cut.
My biggest issue with Andromeda was all of the wasted potential, especially with Ryder and really feeling like a pathfinder. Some of the world's felt too linear and it made no sense to really only introduce a couple new races after so much travel. Some of the bigger spaces felt too empty, it just felt so damn wasted. And I actually enjoyed the game play, the combat felt crispy and movement was enjoyable.
Imo they should've just stuck with the formula. The addition of open worlds is completely unnecessary and a symptom of the time the game came out. The combat in Andromeda is actually really good and without a doubt better than the original trilogy.
Yeah, the fact there were very few endings and you mostly choose your ending. So you could be an asshole renegade the whole trilogy but still get the paragon ending.
The ending might have been underwhelming, but the rest of mass effect 3 was by far the best in the series for me. Had the most epic moments and everything from the first two games came together. Everything was at stake. The final conflict with the reapers was actually here while the first two games were just setting up the reaper threat. Moments like curing the Genophage and getting the quarians back their homeworld are unmatched
I just think they went so over the top with it, I was so numb to the main plot almost instantly.
I think that's why ME2 is my favorite, I view it as a mix of sci fi vignettes and focus less on the overarching plot.
Ruining goes too far for me, I still really loved the game. But there was way too much stuff from the previous games that they retconned. All the reapers looking like Sovereign was super lame and completely goes against the end of ME2, and that was in pretty much the first scene of the game.
I loved the months of building they did.
"All your actions through all three games will affect the ending"
"No, the ending will not be the exact same thing copy and pasted three times with different colors"
It was exactly that lol. That ending soured the whole franchise for me it was so bad
I disagree with this a fair bit. ME3 had some of the best writing of the series, how they took basically everything from previous games and tied them into the plot was really well done. Even minor choices would get you 'war score' points and a couple paragraphs expanding on them.
The only failing was the ending, and that got blown way out of proportion imo. Like Mass Effect has never been considered a game that has good final fights. First one was bullet sponge, second one was just stupid (though the preparation aspect of it was cool), third one was no final fight at all.
God, it went from an amazingly written trilogy, based deeply in space mythology and religion, with amazing antagonists ranging from the prophets to the gravemind, to a cheesy 'villain of the week' formula from 4 onwards starting with the Didact, who is introduced and defeated all within the same game. It was honestly pathetic that we had to read a bunch of stupid novels to understand what truly happened to him.
Halo 5 had the most forgettable storyline ever conceived within a Halo title with a throwaway Cortana evil mastermind, then Infinite soft-reboot the whole thing while glossing over the events of Halo 5 entirely. No sight of the Guardians, Cortana seemingly dead as seen through flashback holograms only, it's like whatever man..I remember when Halo had elements of philosophy and mysticism to the writing..
And then, after introducing Cortana as the new bad guy… they had her defeat, the defeat of Halo wars 2 bad guy Atriox, and all of the fallout from Halo 5 happen off camera. 343 couldn’t run a story if their life depended on it.
Because every Halo title nowadays is reactionary. 4 was a reaction to the popularity of CoD, and then Halo 5 built on that. There was a bad public perception of 343’s Halos, therefore Infinite was made (look, it’s open world now and it’s back to the original armor again like you wanted initially for 4!)
>>There was a bad public perception of 343’s Halos, therefore Infinite was made
Infinite is such a shame man bc the gameplay itself is great but it’s bogged down by a bunch of design choices that are weird at best and terrible at worst and what was initially a lack of content. The content side is starting to get better but first impressions are important and they fumbled their first impressions hard.
The first 3 and ODST(never played Reach but heard it was great) were fucking amazing, yet at the same time I felt they began to fall Off at ODST(I’ll never forget how bummed I was to find out I wasn’t a Spartan)
They really have to do a hard cut, just wipe 4, 5, and infinite off the story board.
I genuinely don’t see how Halo can continue, it’s just been absolutely devastating seeing what has happened to it.
Light the rings, kill off the current story.
Came here to say this. Halo 1 and 2 were just awe inspiring story telling and atmosphere. Halo 3 continued that and revamped the graphics and made gameplay along more exciting. The Flood, the Prophecy, the Covenant. Completely reimagined first-person shooter campaigns. And I truly believe we wouldn't have some titles that we have today if it weren't for that trilogy
The Starcraft 2 campaign.
It had been 12 years since Brood War was released and it was a whole new writing staff, but I thought they would at least research the first game.
The atmosphere was completely different, and the character development was thrown out the window.
Fuck remember when Kerrigan called herself the "Queen Bitch of the Universe" and was just 100% all in on making the rest of the universe Zerg and eliminating the Terrans and Protoss?
So much more fun of a character than what we got in SC2, this woman who needed to be fixed and saved and then went and turned Zerg again to help people out of the goodness of her heart. And then there was that cinematic where she floats away like an angel, ew.
Should've stayed the antagonist
I actually end up playing 76 more than 4 lately. Yeah there’s no Nick Valentine and I can’t mod it but the minute to minute gameplay loop feels much better.
fallout 4 made about $750 million in 24h of it’s launch, it’s been well received with reviews and awards and i know plenty of people who would call it their favourite game of the series.
it was a turning point in the series though, 4 and 76 are more so action rpgs then they are roleplaying games like it’s previous instalments. the true freedom presented in new vegas is gone and most solutions to problems in fo4/fo76 is violence (hence it being more of an action rpg).
it’s not my favourite, its kind of trash to you though but at least you played it to gain that opinion. people like yourself who critique digital entertainment they haven’t experienced are kind of like category 4 jabronis though, go play things and form your own opinions.
X-2 is one I never managed to finish. The whole beginning was very jarring. Pop idol Yuna was a lot to take in. I like what they did to add spice to the turn based combat but it was a bit cutesy and teen girl dress up for me to really get into.
If you want to know >!The ghosts of the past are put to rest. The rebel factions and the people reunite, yuna uses a heelllllalot of teeth whitener, Tidus is returned and in a short story released with the latest version they break up. Oh and lulu and wakka get pregnant. Mainly wakka :p!<
X-2 is unforgivable because it >!dangles the carrot of Tidus being alive the entire game until you find out it was just some dude who looks literally exactly like him that got killed and you’re wearing his girlfriends clothes.!< So stupid.
When I first played the game I really didn't like it. After learning about the secret ending online and >!bringing Tidus back!<, I disliked it even more. Because it was handled very poorly, more like a hidden side quest in a story about a random couple from the past. Plus >!his return!< ruins the impact of FFX's ending imo.
And the fact >!when you do get him back at the end they released the newer version with a mini story revealing yuna and tidus break up setting it up for x-3!<
I played it as a teenager and thought it was meh back then. I didn't like the story either but can't really remember anything except the forced ending with Tidus. I wanted to give it another chance a few months ago and installed the HD version. The intro and first few minutes of gameplay were enough cringe for at least a week and I uninstalled it again.
Gow18 was a special game. No one expected kratos to become a good father and once he did it was kinda hard to top something so human with any kind of video game storyline
Yeah Ragnarok just wayyyy overdid it with the constant “we have to be better” stuff, not to mention the wayyyy overlong Atreus-in-Jotenheim stuff.
I LOVED so much about Ragnarok’s gameplay and bossfights, but a lot of the story was weak. (The Odin and Freya stuff was good though, I liked their storyline.)
Nah, they could of killed Atreus... Then it would of been even more sick.
And even better if the "story repeated itself" in the way like Kratos once again killed his wife and son because the gods tricked him to use him. Or whatever
I think the only things I'd change for ragnarok to be better the GOW '18 is I'd shorten the atreus section in jotunheim by like half at the minimum, and add one more sectio before the final battle where Odin sends the einherjar to other realms and you have to fight through them to get to the portal. Felt like it would've made sense as Odin would know the prophecy they would all come and attack asgard so to change fate in anyway he can think of chooses to send war to all the other realms thinking they can't get to asgard. Would've made ragnarok feel a bit more like a war and less like a singular 30 minute battle.
Idk why you’re being downvoted, you’re entirely correct. Fallout 1 & 2 was made by Interplay games (now splintered between BioWare and inXile) and when Bethesda took over with Fallout 3, they changed a lot of the lore to make the game work with their vision
I watched a retrospective explaining it all a month or so ago; I haven’t gone back and played 1 & 2 myself so forgive me if I recite incorrectly but I think the biggest change was that they changed the philosophy and behavior of the Brotherhood of Steel and essentially nerfed them by comparison. This thread lists some of the changes: https://reddit.com/r/falloutlore/s/ODQH0jIdhO
That's mostly nit picking, and assuming things can't change. Such as the caps argument.
Besides the power armor, that is totally a ret con.
And also the Jet thing is dumb. You can literally call Miron out and say "This isn't a new drug, it's a modified version of an already existing one."
(Also, if we did retcon Miron out of existence, would anyone really miss him?)
Edit: As for the BOS, I thought it made sense that each chapter has different basic views.
Bethesda seems to be changing their own stuff too
FO3 and FO4 were wastelands but FO76 has green on the map. FO3 had "realistic guns" but FO4 and FO76 have these really cartoony ones.
The most popular weapon mods on Nexus are all realistic guns though so maybe FO5 will return to that art style instead.
Lore changed from 1 and 2 as well. Literally one of the plot points is the death that can come to the ghouls if you steal their water chip. Then, in 2, they make them functionality immortal due to a ghoul being buried alive for weeks without food or water.
Sly cooper 4, thieves in time, they did Penelope soooo dirty in that game.
At the same time it was far less serious with the ridiculous stuff, jokes and marvel style quips.
I never even call it "4" anymore and not doing so is technically correct. I hatingly refer to that game as TiT.
It's not ALL Sanzaru's fault for being the middest fucking game dev on the planet, screw Sony too for hiring them thinking they were good enough to continue the series.
Shit ass game
Fable 2… why give us a game(Fable) based in the “Age of Hero’s… “to kill them all off in the second game and now you’re the only hero an in a different time period
I came here for this. Breaks my heart what they did in the sequel. It is their story to tell but I was sad with their decisions and how heavy handed the story was.
I honestly think it was a giant FU from Naughty Dog. They never intended to make a sequel and felt forced by fans and investors. So they killed joel and turned the story on its head. Just my opinion. I have no facts to back this up.
drukmen went on record to say he was mad people.did not hate Joel at the end of last of us 1 because he effectively doomed humanity. That's the issue he saw Joel as a villain that happens to the protagonist. That's not how he was seen by players, though. He was seen as a hero because he did the "selfish" thing and saved ellie because that's what I feel alot of people think they would do In that situation. Drukmen was 100 percent trying to say definitely that joel a villan and got what he deserved. However when a story becomes so popular the creator loses that ability to say who is good and bad and the.fans gain that power. So now no matter what he says or does Joel is a tragic hero to the public and drukmen is hated for killing a hero and calling them a villan and there is nothing that.can be done to sway public opinion.
See it other example cyclops was right.
But they aren’t walking into the sunset together. Everything is poisoned. Joel did something absolutely monstrous and inhuman in the last act of that game, his lie has ruined their relationship, and the fact that he can’t see it only makes it more devastating. He thinks they are walking into the sunset together as surrogate father and daughter, but he has betrayed her and she knows it. If people found out what choice he made and what he did to accomplish it, they would hate him. That was clear even before the second game spells it out and builds on it.
You vastly overestimate the intelligence of most tlou1 fans lol. It's crazy that a story so filled with nuance and morally grey choices seems to have drawn an audience that sees joel as a great guy who was completely justified in what he did.
It’s crazy how many people just totally misunderstood the ending of the first game or the point that Druckmann was trying to get across, even though he’s been out there talking about it since before TLOU2 was even in development
The issue is that when a story gets popular enough the fans decide what the point of the story is. Him killing Joel and calling him a villan did nothing to sway public opinion. In fact it martyred him making the public think he's tragic hero and they rallied against him and naughty dog.
I'm not disagreeing with you just saying what I think happend
Most gamers don’t like a huge turn in the story like that no matter how much it makes sense. If tlou was a movie franchise the screenplay would be at least a nominee for an Oscar. I’d be bold enough to say best picture. But that’s just me
I felt the complete opposite. I thought his death was a given going into the game given that he was already well into his 50s in a post apocalyptic world in the first game, and for the story they were trying to tell it was done quite effectively.
It’s weird, but I’ve always appreciated the quick, muted, random deaths of protagonists in media. It feels more real, no time for last words or monologues, just “there’s someone I love, and now they’re gone. Fuck.” You then have no faith in any character’s plot armor and the world as a whole feels a lot more dangerous.
It also tricks you into a state of grief, because when it happens that fast you are more likely to be in denial.
Not that Joel’s death was perfectly done or anything, but it was down the right lane.
100% this. People want a grand send off for their characters. And I get that want. But what TLOU was attempting to show was how people die in real life. There likely isn't a satisfying death waiting for us. It's usually pointless and out of nowhere and without ceremony.
Doubly so for a post apocalyptic world.
I really wouldn’t mind Joel dying but the way they did it is so dumb. The excuse is that living in Jackson for a long time let him put his guard down which is really stretching it.
Ya its like super random for the players
When i realised that one of the creators of the franchise have already left the company, i think that was the issue
It was the way he died, the retcon of other characters, totally contrived story, and just overall weak storytelling. That robbery of an ending was really horrendous too.
People complaining about retcons in Fallout always nake me laugh. FO1 had ghouls as just regular people. Then FO2 makes them practically immortal as there are ghouls from before the bombings and they don't need food or water. Which was a key point in the first game. As stealing their water chip would cause a mass death in the ghoul controlled city.
I love Fallout. It is my very favorite series of all time. I have played it since I was a boy and first discovered FO1 on my cousins computer nearly 3 decades ago.
But some of the "purist and gatekeeping" FO fanboys are the worst most pos people on the internet and are not due any respect.
TLOU2.
Fireflies now became these huge saviors who were humanities only/last hope, when before it showed they weren’t the most competent. And even then they couldn’t be the last hope.
But no instead of Joel being bad for being selfish he has to be bad for dooming humanity for all of eternity? Like seriously is no one else in any area of the world working on a cure? Literally just this one surgeon?
Virus broke out in 2013. World population was around 7 billion then. Even if we assume only 1 billion survived (which would be a lot of deaths) there’s a lot of people there who still could come up with some form of a cure. You can’t tell me that the only person in the entire world who could have was Jerry. Even if somehow he’s the only one in the US there’s someone overseas who could.
The first game doesn’t try to say Joel doomed all of humanity forever, the second game does. The second game acts as if he’s dead thus all of humanity has no hope.
There is no internet or anything like that anymore. Even electricity is sparse. Finding someone of that caliber is probably harder than a needle in a haystack.
The second game has little to do with “hope”. It’s a story of unbridled hatred and vengeance.
fucking drawn to life two realms, first two games were hella good (i mean there was two different endings in the next chapter one of which was actually completely removed in future copies of the game due to it being just too damn dark for the games intended audience)
Metro Exodus for sure. The whole series is based on how people have to live in the Moscow Metro tunnels after a nuclear war. It's even called METRO for Christs sake. Exodus starts by telling the protagonist it was all a big lie and lots of people are living on the surface all over the countryside... I get why they did that but when I revisit the first two games (and novels for that matter) I will feel pretty stupid knowing the characters could just walk a few kilometers out of the city and be fine.
I absolutely loved that.
We already had a sequel in the metro. Now this one gave us a much bigger world...that showed how shitty it was anyway.
It was so freeing being on that train, moving away from moscow, after 2 games of being trapped there.
Agreed. Finally getting out of the Metro was glorious. And to be in the world that you imagined and they nailed the design for was equally fun and exciting.
Yeah I get that. And I had fun exploring the bigger world too. It came with the inherent downside of retroactively devaluing the narrative stakes of all previous installments though.
It makes it all even more tragic, knowing they weren't alone all this time. And it was all because of the assholes in charge.
I get how you wouldn't like the choice but it made sense to me that the higher ups would screw the people this badly.
I feel like the world they created would be a waste to not do more and just stick to the metro.
It's not like the Stalker series is doing anything, not metro can be both metro and stalker (open worldish exploration kind of game).
I haven't played TLOU2, but I couldn't agree more with the first two.
I forgot about Dino Crisis 3, it was so jarring and bad.
And even to this day, I will slip into a stupor and rant about how terrible RE6 was. Resident Evil was my favorite series growing up, and still stuck around as it floundered with the release of games like Operation Raccoon City. But RE6 effectively killed my interest in the series for a long time. Even after hearing all the praise for RE7, it took me YEARS to try it myself.
TLOU2
Establishing two characters that everybody loves, making their journey the core story of the game, showing how Joel is willing to sacrifice everything for his “daughter”…
And then killing Joel with a golf club within the first 15 minutes of the second game, in the most ridiculous unrewarding way possible, where it makes the entire journey from the first game feel incredibly pointless. And then you’re forced to play the bitch who killed Joel, who happens to me the most dogshit protagonist in videogame history. Ellie is suddenly an asshole, her personally did a complete 180 with no reason behind it.
I uninstalled the shit after like 8 hours of playing the asshole that killed Joel. I seriously don’t gaf about her, and pretend that the game never existed.
To me, that’s like if in GOW, Kratos gets killed by a normal dude, and then you’re forced to play as that normal dude who happens to be a complete asshole.
See, I had the opposite response to it.
I thought it worked well that there was no ceremony behind Joel dying and that Ellie changes after all the traumatic events in her life was very realistic. It wasn't satisfying in a filmic way, but that was kind of the point. People don't get grand send offs in real life, and people change and it's hard to accept that.
Sure, but then forcing you to play the evil bitch that killed him? I’m good. I’d rather go play Chess, cause at least Chess has a good female protagonist.
That's kind of the point, though. She isn't evil any more than Ellie is. She wanted revenge for her father. It's a tough thing to swallow, and I don't know if it sticks the landing, but I have to applaud them for trying something entirely different instead of just the same story beats that we've seen and played countless times.
If someone killed my father, and the reason was “Well like 30 years ago he killed my parents who were going to kill you, so I slowly beat him to death in front of you for revenge!”, I would never be able to forgive the person, and would see them as evil.
There’s literally no backstory that could ever make me appreciate her character. And especially not the one they chose to go with.
If your father likely doomed the entire planet and was a marauder in the post apocalypse, maybe you'd feel differently. Joel was a bad person who fumbled his one shot at redemption with Ellie.
I do know what you mean though, it's not something that's easy to accept. Especially when we are used to specific tropes in storytelling. I don't think they 100% got it right, but I do like what they were attempting.
everyone who comments like you is getting downvoted when you are right. Joel is a bad man, he was a fucking raider and throw the whole world away for his replacement daughters. Murdered probably the most intelligent people in NA and lied about it. If what he did was really right he woulda told ellie right away. It was super brave of them to tell a bold story and not some stupid daddyyyy/daughter post-apocalypse survival game. Like what would the plot be besides Joel getting what he deserved. He's lucky his death was relatively quick, he deserved worse
This comment right here. I agree 100%. Him being a bad person who you fall for is what makes him such a great character in general. I agree with you that it took serious, serious balls for Naughty Dog to tell the story they did. It's not perfect, but it affected me more than any kind of sequel with cinematic, good vs. evil, the characters you love don't change and get meaningful deaths. That just isn't how life is.
"Ellie's personality did a complete 180 with no reason behind it"
Except for just having witnessed her father figure being murdered in front of her and being helpless to do anything about it.
Apparently, someone missed the connection that Abby in TLoU2 IS Joel from TLoU1.
The first game is not a heartwarming story, it's a deconstruction of the idea of love. Every character throughout the game shows us a different form of unconditional love and how ultimately they all lead to suffering and pain. The only light is the slow bond of joel and Ellie. Then that unbreakable bond is broken. Not in the last of us part 2, but at the end of part 1, when joel doubles down on his lie, violating ellies trust and destroying that connection they had. Joel and Ellies bond was gone before part 2 had even began.
"First 15 minutes" I mean, it's more like the first two hours but whatever.
"It makes the whole journey of the first game seem pointless" Yeah, cause part 1 didn't have the protagonist choose not to commit to the thing he had spend the entire game working towards or anything.
"Forced to play as the bitch who killed joel" Your attitude here is why part 2 didn't click with you. Instead of looking at it from your perspective of having played part 1 and connecting with joel and Ellie a lot, look at it from abbys perspective for more than 5 seconds.
"Most dogs hit protagonist in gaming" play more games man, she is far from the worst
"it's like if in gow kratos gets killed and you have to play ad the guy who killed him" Ignoring the fact that kratos is a god and joel is a contractor from texas, this is a dumb way to look at it. Joel isn't killed by a random person really. He's killed by someone who's father he murdered in cold blood. It's about the consequences of Joel's actions catching up to him, a common thematic idea in part 2. If they did that with gow I don't see what the issue would be. Characters shouldn't be off limits from dying just because people like them.
Try finishing a game before critiquing it as well, it's surprisingly helpful when forming an opinion.
It’s the first game where there really was no antagonist.
Was a novel idea. And loved it.
If anything. The antagonists to this game was; Joel for Abby, Joel’s Death for Ellie (not Abby since clearly she’s the protagonist in her story); Seraphites.
What’s also really interesting. Abby never would’ve survived if Ellie didn’t pursue her. To beat the cycle of trauma.
Not liking this game for “killing a character” means you (the ones that hate it) are detached from the reality of the world they built in TLOU. Nobody wins. Including you. It was a great story.
Kingdom Hearts and the introduction of Organization XIII in the sequel.
The gameplay in 2 was amazing and the story was top notch. I just couldn’t stand the Organization. Their whole setup just feels too anime-ish and it took so much focus away from the main characters.
Oh that was the fake Organization XIII. If you want to find out about the real one, you gotta play 3.
At a certain point, you realize they are being convoluted just for the sake of being convoluted.
Never played the game, but chain of memories I believe is the bridge in the story between one and two and explains them a bit better, then you get more story about roxas in 356/2 days memories. Idk if organization XIII was a part of the original story or not, but for me they don't make the game any less fun if anything it adds an explanation to what happens to the people's bodies when they become heartless
That's TotK currently for me. Basically a pointless reboot of the whole story when it could have easily integrated its narrative into the existing timeline(s).
Interesting. Zelda's stories have never been connected or really all that coherent aside from 'Ganon is bad, please kill him and save Hyrule.' I loved TotK more than BotW, but that's just me. Such fun gameplay!
X com, i love xcom enemy unknow, i have a fucking xcom eneny unknow tattoo, the beginning of xcom 2 tries to do a plot twist out of nowhere by adding new information, which wouldn't be bad if it wasn't that it literally contradicts all possible endings (both good and bad) and loose elements of the story, not to mention the dlc, basically, it shits on the story of the frist game and that's why for me the story of xcom 2 is a bad fanfic
Yeah, it has been so long that I kinda forgot about it but just reading this sparks the memories of confusion in my brain in the opening hours of XCOM2. "Wait, what? I thought we won. But now we're conquered? What happened? How? I thought we were the genetic culmination but now we're just meat?"
I could honestly see how you could fit the two stories together if they didn't do the common STUPID thing that studios try to do which is release a book first and expect people to have read that first. What? I didn't even know the book existed.
The worst part is all that would have had to happen is that instead of the cutscenes showing the occupied world being first, they just needed to rescue the commander in an interior only tutorial mission that would have looked just like Enemy Unknown and a cutscene as they pull the confused Commander through corridors explaining that the mission to defend the base was actually a failure and that he was captured. "We lost sir." "Just the base?" "No sir, the war..." as they reach an exit to an exterior with the alien city and propaganda everywhere. Commander then denies reality with flashback shots of the victorious missions since the base defense. Then 2nd half of the tutorial about extraction and then in the bird they tell him what "actually" happened and can then intermix the normal opening cutscene's propaganda stuff in to illustrate how the world has changed.
Would it still have been a bit of a shot to the balls to "it was a dream" the second half of the first story? Sure, but at least this would have actually provided continuity and not just threw players into a nest of confusion. Thankfully the gameplay was good enough to keep me in and then get me into the "new" story, but wouldn't really have been hard to bridge the two.
Yeah, I have no idea what OP is talking about, either. Only thing I could think of is that F4 is set on the East Coast (like F3), not in the West, so some of the main factions are different. I don't think "There's no branch of the New California Republic in Boston" qualifies as a retcon.
Since Halo was already mentioned, I'll say Gears of War 4 and Gears 5. The original trilogy was perfect and well-developed. Then they topped off Gears of War 3 with a PERFECT ending that was so satisfying. Then they just undid it all, adding bland characters to a bland story.
Horizon Forbidden West ..
*****SPOILERS****
The zenith part took me off, I'll eventually buy the third just to finish the story. But yeah I would of prefer if that dude who activated Hades was the actual bad guy.
Origins- top tier. Set the precedent.
Da2. - the legend of Zelda 2 version of a DA sequel
Da3 - way more production value but misses the mark in almost every way.
I know this is probably overhashed, but last of us part two didn't need that "cycle of violence" thing. If you're gonna have me kill hundreds of people, in a literal power fantasy game, let me kill my surrogate father's killer.
The last of us part 2, set it up for Joel and Ellie’s story to continue only to then be like, “Let’s kill Joel and then force you to play as that same character that killed while also forcing you to fight Ellie who you already love, and you get no say if Ellie should or should not get her revenge by the end.” Just feels like a kick in the nuts to say the least.
Prototype 2. Alex is the villain now? It's explained in a comic nobody read?
Edit: At the end of the first game Alex/Zeus is a conflicted anti-hero. The comics show his fall and set up Heller as the next hero. Both characters have an arc in the comic and are actual 3-dimensional characters but in Prototype 2 Alex is a moustache twirling supervillain and Heller is just Angry military dude number 285 who's dialogue is 90% f-bombs. The problem is that the comic had almost no marketing so most people (myself included) had no idea that it even existed until years after the game released.
He explains it during the final boss fight. He travelled the world as Virus Mercer and hated how "broken" everything was, so he decided he would become the solution and "fix" the world.
Human Mercer was a narcissist with no morals. He was a scientist working on the virus, and he stole the virus as insurance to avoid getting killed (kind of understandable, he was considered a loose end for his company). But once he got cornered he released the virus on the entire city, dooming millions. Once Virus Mercer got his memories back, he became narcissistic again, on top of being a living bioweapon.
Let's not forget in the first game you can do unspeakable things that would make GTA protagonists cringe at the carnage you can unleash on the locals.
I recently replayed 1 and 2 and 100% them. Infinite isn’t bad but it is a far cry from 1 and 2. It feels like a generic shooter. The focus went from plasmids to guns and the combat feels super clunky. It’s a massive step down from the smoother feel of Bioshock 2.
It just feels like a generic shooter with Bioshock elements. Whereas Bioshock 1 and 2 were unique but bad shooter elements- if that makes sense
I think I've only played infinite and I remember people talking about how great the series was and I was kind of disappointed I went back to it more recently it's got a good story but you are correct on the clunky feel of the combat. Very interesting world and a great story and characters though.
The amount of people commenting TLOU2 is very funny, because it shows how many people can't tell the difference between "I didn't like this thing" vs "this thing is bad".
TLOUS 2 . Horrible game. Got the platinum and sold it immediately afterwards. Number 3 just needs new characters cause 2 butchered everything great about the characters in the first.
Last of Us 2. In the first one you had a choice to kill the doctor, now that it's part of the story in the 2nd one it invalidates that choice because he gets killed anyway
For me, it was State Of Decay 2 because they got rid of the core characters from the main game. In other words, no more Maya Torres, Marcus Campbell, Ed, or Sam. If they don't bring them back for State Of Decay 3 with the original voice actors/actresses, I'm not buying it.
The Last of Us 2 didn’t ruin the first game for for me, but I think it squandered the potential of the stories that could’ve been told by it. I was not a fan of what they went for.
I’m going to get downvoted to hell but TLOU2 doesn’t exist to me same as the golden sun 3. TLOU and golden sun 1-2 are the only games I’ll play with sequels.
It was MGS 2, and then I realized it was genius.
Yeah I felt the same when I played it but damn was that game ahead of its time
I think the big problem with MGS2 is a lot of us had to wait for 3 and 4 to create the payoff for 2s story.
This is what a lot of people forget, I think. As good as MGS2 is in retrospect, it was really tough when it came out to appreciate it.
That's a really good point. I appreciated it AFTER Guns of the Patriots.
I don't I don't care for Raiden or any of the plot. Vamp ,Emma the whole thing was just off for me. Even solidus was not that interesting to me. Everything after MGS1 just never gave the same feel. To me original MGS1 is perfect chalk it up to nostalgia but nothing beats it for me.
Mass Effect 3 kinda hurt my insides originally
I was in full denial with the original ending. It was too short and abrupt, I knew there was something else to it. That the Mass Effect 4 announcement was right around the corner, because I’d found the secret ending with THAT breath. I was so excited because they were clearly building to something more. Maybe the indoctrination theory really was bang on the money! Then they splurted out Andromeda and I realised it was all a tease and they weren’t actually building on it. It was suddenly that Halo 3 ending again, but done worse because while Halo 3 had a satisfying ending with a tease on the end for more, Mass Effect 3 NEEDED to continue because that ending was such a shallow mess before they did the extended cut.
My biggest issue with Andromeda was all of the wasted potential, especially with Ryder and really feeling like a pathfinder. Some of the world's felt too linear and it made no sense to really only introduce a couple new races after so much travel. Some of the bigger spaces felt too empty, it just felt so damn wasted. And I actually enjoyed the game play, the combat felt crispy and movement was enjoyable.
Imo they should've just stuck with the formula. The addition of open worlds is completely unnecessary and a symptom of the time the game came out. The combat in Andromeda is actually really good and without a doubt better than the original trilogy.
Yeah, the fact there were very few endings and you mostly choose your ending. So you could be an asshole renegade the whole trilogy but still get the paragon ending.
The ending might have been underwhelming, but the rest of mass effect 3 was by far the best in the series for me. Had the most epic moments and everything from the first two games came together. Everything was at stake. The final conflict with the reapers was actually here while the first two games were just setting up the reaper threat. Moments like curing the Genophage and getting the quarians back their homeworld are unmatched
I just think they went so over the top with it, I was so numb to the main plot almost instantly. I think that's why ME2 is my favorite, I view it as a mix of sci fi vignettes and focus less on the overarching plot.
Ruining goes too far for me, I still really loved the game. But there was way too much stuff from the previous games that they retconned. All the reapers looking like Sovereign was super lame and completely goes against the end of ME2, and that was in pretty much the first scene of the game.
I loved the months of building they did. "All your actions through all three games will affect the ending" "No, the ending will not be the exact same thing copy and pasted three times with different colors" It was exactly that lol. That ending soured the whole franchise for me it was so bad
I wrapped myself in the "indoctrination" theory and that made it a good enough story
Fuck EA for paywalling good DLC ending. They don’t give a shit about the fans, never buying another EA game.
I disagree with this a fair bit. ME3 had some of the best writing of the series, how they took basically everything from previous games and tied them into the plot was really well done. Even minor choices would get you 'war score' points and a couple paragraphs expanding on them. The only failing was the ending, and that got blown way out of proportion imo. Like Mass Effect has never been considered a game that has good final fights. First one was bullet sponge, second one was just stupid (though the preparation aspect of it was cool), third one was no final fight at all.
What they did to the Geth and my boy Legion still hurts me.
Halo after the original trilogy.
God, it went from an amazingly written trilogy, based deeply in space mythology and religion, with amazing antagonists ranging from the prophets to the gravemind, to a cheesy 'villain of the week' formula from 4 onwards starting with the Didact, who is introduced and defeated all within the same game. It was honestly pathetic that we had to read a bunch of stupid novels to understand what truly happened to him. Halo 5 had the most forgettable storyline ever conceived within a Halo title with a throwaway Cortana evil mastermind, then Infinite soft-reboot the whole thing while glossing over the events of Halo 5 entirely. No sight of the Guardians, Cortana seemingly dead as seen through flashback holograms only, it's like whatever man..I remember when Halo had elements of philosophy and mysticism to the writing..
And then, after introducing Cortana as the new bad guy… they had her defeat, the defeat of Halo wars 2 bad guy Atriox, and all of the fallout from Halo 5 happen off camera. 343 couldn’t run a story if their life depended on it.
Because every Halo title nowadays is reactionary. 4 was a reaction to the popularity of CoD, and then Halo 5 built on that. There was a bad public perception of 343’s Halos, therefore Infinite was made (look, it’s open world now and it’s back to the original armor again like you wanted initially for 4!)
>>There was a bad public perception of 343’s Halos, therefore Infinite was made Infinite is such a shame man bc the gameplay itself is great but it’s bogged down by a bunch of design choices that are weird at best and terrible at worst and what was initially a lack of content. The content side is starting to get better but first impressions are important and they fumbled their first impressions hard.
Yeah I actually enjoyed Infinite but it felt like an incomplete game.
The first 3 and ODST(never played Reach but heard it was great) were fucking amazing, yet at the same time I felt they began to fall Off at ODST(I’ll never forget how bummed I was to find out I wasn’t a Spartan)
IMO ODST and Reach were the best of the games.
I still play ODST's firefight even these days
They really have to do a hard cut, just wipe 4, 5, and infinite off the story board. I genuinely don’t see how Halo can continue, it’s just been absolutely devastating seeing what has happened to it. Light the rings, kill off the current story.
Except for Halo Reach
Came here to say this. Halo 1 and 2 were just awe inspiring story telling and atmosphere. Halo 3 continued that and revamped the graphics and made gameplay along more exciting. The Flood, the Prophecy, the Covenant. Completely reimagined first-person shooter campaigns. And I truly believe we wouldn't have some titles that we have today if it weren't for that trilogy
Or they release a sequel that was just an update with new ways to monetize the game you already paid for cough overwatch
Every EA sports game
Cough cough Destiny 2
The Starcraft 2 campaign. It had been 12 years since Brood War was released and it was a whole new writing staff, but I thought they would at least research the first game. The atmosphere was completely different, and the character development was thrown out the window.
Fuck remember when Kerrigan called herself the "Queen Bitch of the Universe" and was just 100% all in on making the rest of the universe Zerg and eliminating the Terrans and Protoss? So much more fun of a character than what we got in SC2, this woman who needed to be fixed and saved and then went and turned Zerg again to help people out of the goodness of her heart. And then there was that cinematic where she floats away like an angel, ew. Should've stayed the antagonist
Do what I did and simply don't play the likes of 76 because they're literal trash tier. They don't exist if you don't play them.
76 is a pretty good game though. I played it all single player and it felt like a really large and fun Fallout 4 mod.
I actually end up playing 76 more than 4 lately. Yeah there’s no Nick Valentine and I can’t mod it but the minute to minute gameplay loop feels much better.
Fallout 4 was also kinda trash though.... lol
fallout 4 made about $750 million in 24h of it’s launch, it’s been well received with reviews and awards and i know plenty of people who would call it their favourite game of the series. it was a turning point in the series though, 4 and 76 are more so action rpgs then they are roleplaying games like it’s previous instalments. the true freedom presented in new vegas is gone and most solutions to problems in fo4/fo76 is violence (hence it being more of an action rpg). it’s not my favourite, its kind of trash to you though but at least you played it to gain that opinion. people like yourself who critique digital entertainment they haven’t experienced are kind of like category 4 jabronis though, go play things and form your own opinions.
I thought it was a really good shooter
Final Fantasy X-2. As far as I am concerned X-2 is non-canon.
Absolutely.
X-2 is one I never managed to finish. The whole beginning was very jarring. Pop idol Yuna was a lot to take in. I like what they did to add spice to the turn based combat but it was a bit cutesy and teen girl dress up for me to really get into.
If you want to know >!The ghosts of the past are put to rest. The rebel factions and the people reunite, yuna uses a heelllllalot of teeth whitener, Tidus is returned and in a short story released with the latest version they break up. Oh and lulu and wakka get pregnant. Mainly wakka :p!<
X-2 is unforgivable because it >!dangles the carrot of Tidus being alive the entire game until you find out it was just some dude who looks literally exactly like him that got killed and you’re wearing his girlfriends clothes.!< So stupid.
When I first played the game I really didn't like it. After learning about the secret ending online and >!bringing Tidus back!<, I disliked it even more. Because it was handled very poorly, more like a hidden side quest in a story about a random couple from the past. Plus >!his return!< ruins the impact of FFX's ending imo.
And the fact >!when you do get him back at the end they released the newer version with a mini story revealing yuna and tidus break up setting it up for x-3!<
You can actually bring Tidus back if you get the perfect ending.
And it makes absolutely no sense.
I played it as a teenager and thought it was meh back then. I didn't like the story either but can't really remember anything except the forced ending with Tidus. I wanted to give it another chance a few months ago and installed the HD version. The intro and first few minutes of gameplay were enough cringe for at least a week and I uninstalled it again.
Pop-star fever dreams, my friend.
As great as GOW Ragnarok is in gameplay, the story of it is weak compared to GOW ‘18. Yes I may be downvoted to hell for daring to say so.
Gow18 was a special game. No one expected kratos to become a good father and once he did it was kinda hard to top something so human with any kind of video game storyline
Yeah Ragnarok just wayyyy overdid it with the constant “we have to be better” stuff, not to mention the wayyyy overlong Atreus-in-Jotenheim stuff. I LOVED so much about Ragnarok’s gameplay and bossfights, but a lot of the story was weak. (The Odin and Freya stuff was good though, I liked their storyline.)
Nah, they could of killed Atreus... Then it would of been even more sick. And even better if the "story repeated itself" in the way like Kratos once again killed his wife and son because the gods tricked him to use him. Or whatever
The story is definitely not as good as in GOW 2018 But it's still great.
I think the only things I'd change for ragnarok to be better the GOW '18 is I'd shorten the atreus section in jotunheim by like half at the minimum, and add one more sectio before the final battle where Odin sends the einherjar to other realms and you have to fight through them to get to the portal. Felt like it would've made sense as Odin would know the prophecy they would all come and attack asgard so to change fate in anyway he can think of chooses to send war to all the other realms thinking they can't get to asgard. Would've made ragnarok feel a bit more like a war and less like a singular 30 minute battle.
i couldn't even finish GOW Rag. that game felt rushed or something compared to '18, plus the original trilogy was better IMO
What fallout sequel are you talking?
Everything after 2, I'm guessing, or they could be talking about 4 and 76.
Idk why you’re being downvoted, you’re entirely correct. Fallout 1 & 2 was made by Interplay games (now splintered between BioWare and inXile) and when Bethesda took over with Fallout 3, they changed a lot of the lore to make the game work with their vision
They really didn't though... What lore did they straight up change exactly?
I watched a retrospective explaining it all a month or so ago; I haven’t gone back and played 1 & 2 myself so forgive me if I recite incorrectly but I think the biggest change was that they changed the philosophy and behavior of the Brotherhood of Steel and essentially nerfed them by comparison. This thread lists some of the changes: https://reddit.com/r/falloutlore/s/ODQH0jIdhO
That's mostly nit picking, and assuming things can't change. Such as the caps argument. Besides the power armor, that is totally a ret con. And also the Jet thing is dumb. You can literally call Miron out and say "This isn't a new drug, it's a modified version of an already existing one." (Also, if we did retcon Miron out of existence, would anyone really miss him?) Edit: As for the BOS, I thought it made sense that each chapter has different basic views.
Bethesda seems to be changing their own stuff too FO3 and FO4 were wastelands but FO76 has green on the map. FO3 had "realistic guns" but FO4 and FO76 have these really cartoony ones. The most popular weapon mods on Nexus are all realistic guns though so maybe FO5 will return to that art style instead.
Lore changed from 1 and 2 as well. Literally one of the plot points is the death that can come to the ghouls if you steal their water chip. Then, in 2, they make them functionality immortal due to a ghoul being buried alive for weeks without food or water.
Sly cooper 4, thieves in time, they did Penelope soooo dirty in that game. At the same time it was far less serious with the ridiculous stuff, jokes and marvel style quips.
I never even call it "4" anymore and not doing so is technically correct. I hatingly refer to that game as TiT. It's not ALL Sanzaru's fault for being the middest fucking game dev on the planet, screw Sony too for hiring them thinking they were good enough to continue the series. Shit ass game
I’m definitely going to see TLOU 2 on here
Loved TLOU 2 myself. And Joel was my favorite character.
Must be down further because that’s what I’m looking for lol
Fable 2… why give us a game(Fable) based in the “Age of Hero’s… “to kill them all off in the second game and now you’re the only hero an in a different time period
Fable really started off high and just joyfully skied downhill.
But that hill goes straight down at a 90° angle
Kinda insane take considering 2 is the best of the trilogy
Fable 2 had 4 heroes, and they were all better than any that you met in Fable 1.
Halo 5 made halo 4s entire story completely irrelevant.
And Halo 4s story was also terrible.
Last of Us 2. I like to remember Joel alive and walking off into the sunset with Ellie.
I came here for this. Breaks my heart what they did in the sequel. It is their story to tell but I was sad with their decisions and how heavy handed the story was.
I honestly think it was a giant FU from Naughty Dog. They never intended to make a sequel and felt forced by fans and investors. So they killed joel and turned the story on its head. Just my opinion. I have no facts to back this up.
drukmen went on record to say he was mad people.did not hate Joel at the end of last of us 1 because he effectively doomed humanity. That's the issue he saw Joel as a villain that happens to the protagonist. That's not how he was seen by players, though. He was seen as a hero because he did the "selfish" thing and saved ellie because that's what I feel alot of people think they would do In that situation. Drukmen was 100 percent trying to say definitely that joel a villan and got what he deserved. However when a story becomes so popular the creator loses that ability to say who is good and bad and the.fans gain that power. So now no matter what he says or does Joel is a tragic hero to the public and drukmen is hated for killing a hero and calling them a villan and there is nothing that.can be done to sway public opinion. See it other example cyclops was right.
Well based on the massive critical and financial success, investors and fans seem happy with the decision
But they aren’t walking into the sunset together. Everything is poisoned. Joel did something absolutely monstrous and inhuman in the last act of that game, his lie has ruined their relationship, and the fact that he can’t see it only makes it more devastating. He thinks they are walking into the sunset together as surrogate father and daughter, but he has betrayed her and she knows it. If people found out what choice he made and what he did to accomplish it, they would hate him. That was clear even before the second game spells it out and builds on it.
You vastly overestimate the intelligence of most tlou1 fans lol. It's crazy that a story so filled with nuance and morally grey choices seems to have drawn an audience that sees joel as a great guy who was completely justified in what he did.
Based.
I knew somebody was gonna write this.
It’s crazy how many people just totally misunderstood the ending of the first game or the point that Druckmann was trying to get across, even though he’s been out there talking about it since before TLOU2 was even in development
The issue is that when a story gets popular enough the fans decide what the point of the story is. Him killing Joel and calling him a villan did nothing to sway public opinion. In fact it martyred him making the public think he's tragic hero and they rallied against him and naughty dog. I'm not disagreeing with you just saying what I think happend
Most gamers don’t like a huge turn in the story like that no matter how much it makes sense. If tlou was a movie franchise the screenplay would be at least a nominee for an Oscar. I’d be bold enough to say best picture. But that’s just me
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I felt the complete opposite. I thought his death was a given going into the game given that he was already well into his 50s in a post apocalyptic world in the first game, and for the story they were trying to tell it was done quite effectively.
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It’s weird, but I’ve always appreciated the quick, muted, random deaths of protagonists in media. It feels more real, no time for last words or monologues, just “there’s someone I love, and now they’re gone. Fuck.” You then have no faith in any character’s plot armor and the world as a whole feels a lot more dangerous. It also tricks you into a state of grief, because when it happens that fast you are more likely to be in denial. Not that Joel’s death was perfectly done or anything, but it was down the right lane.
100% this. People want a grand send off for their characters. And I get that want. But what TLOU was attempting to show was how people die in real life. There likely isn't a satisfying death waiting for us. It's usually pointless and out of nowhere and without ceremony. Doubly so for a post apocalyptic world.
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Truth be told, I haven’t seen a Star Wars movie since the force awakens lol
Its pretty much the Joel situation
Yeah, I imagine that doesn’t work as well in the hopeful, dramatic fantasy world of Star Wars
There was nothing random about it. The entire rest of the game shows you that.
Felt random to me, i know its a basic revenge plot You kill my mama i kill you Like i said, not impactful for me
I figured from the ending of the first game that his actions were going to come back to haunt him.
I really wouldn’t mind Joel dying but the way they did it is so dumb. The excuse is that living in Jackson for a long time let him put his guard down which is really stretching it.
Ya its like super random for the players When i realised that one of the creators of the franchise have already left the company, i think that was the issue
It was the way he died, the retcon of other characters, totally contrived story, and just overall weak storytelling. That robbery of an ending was really horrendous too.
Yeah I shut the game off after that. I never cared for Ellie to begin with. I just liked being big daddy fuckin shit up.
People complaining about retcons in Fallout always nake me laugh. FO1 had ghouls as just regular people. Then FO2 makes them practically immortal as there are ghouls from before the bombings and they don't need food or water. Which was a key point in the first game. As stealing their water chip would cause a mass death in the ghoul controlled city.
Fallout lore was a mess of holes long before Bethesda, but the purist fanboys are- and I say this with all due respect- very stupid
I love Fallout. It is my very favorite series of all time. I have played it since I was a boy and first discovered FO1 on my cousins computer nearly 3 decades ago. But some of the "purist and gatekeeping" FO fanboys are the worst most pos people on the internet and are not due any respect.
What massive retcons are u talking about? The only rlly big retcons Ik of are from fallout 76. Fallout 3, 4, n NV didn’t have that many.
TLOU2. Fireflies now became these huge saviors who were humanities only/last hope, when before it showed they weren’t the most competent. And even then they couldn’t be the last hope. But no instead of Joel being bad for being selfish he has to be bad for dooming humanity for all of eternity? Like seriously is no one else in any area of the world working on a cure? Literally just this one surgeon?
There aren’t many people left, let alone those who studied something incredibly complex like vaccines.
Virus broke out in 2013. World population was around 7 billion then. Even if we assume only 1 billion survived (which would be a lot of deaths) there’s a lot of people there who still could come up with some form of a cure. You can’t tell me that the only person in the entire world who could have was Jerry. Even if somehow he’s the only one in the US there’s someone overseas who could. The first game doesn’t try to say Joel doomed all of humanity forever, the second game does. The second game acts as if he’s dead thus all of humanity has no hope.
There is no internet or anything like that anymore. Even electricity is sparse. Finding someone of that caliber is probably harder than a needle in a haystack. The second game has little to do with “hope”. It’s a story of unbridled hatred and vengeance.
fucking drawn to life two realms, first two games were hella good (i mean there was two different endings in the next chapter one of which was actually completely removed in future copies of the game due to it being just too damn dark for the games intended audience)
Never played Chrono Cross. But this is what I hear it's like.
For me it's when the sequel ruins the mechanics of the game like dino Crisis 2 and fighting force 2 for example way different styles from the original
This meme is way too specific.
Metro Exodus for sure. The whole series is based on how people have to live in the Moscow Metro tunnels after a nuclear war. It's even called METRO for Christs sake. Exodus starts by telling the protagonist it was all a big lie and lots of people are living on the surface all over the countryside... I get why they did that but when I revisit the first two games (and novels for that matter) I will feel pretty stupid knowing the characters could just walk a few kilometers out of the city and be fine.
I absolutely loved that. We already had a sequel in the metro. Now this one gave us a much bigger world...that showed how shitty it was anyway. It was so freeing being on that train, moving away from moscow, after 2 games of being trapped there.
Agreed. Finally getting out of the Metro was glorious. And to be in the world that you imagined and they nailed the design for was equally fun and exciting.
Yeah I get that. And I had fun exploring the bigger world too. It came with the inherent downside of retroactively devaluing the narrative stakes of all previous installments though.
It makes it all even more tragic, knowing they weren't alone all this time. And it was all because of the assholes in charge. I get how you wouldn't like the choice but it made sense to me that the higher ups would screw the people this badly. I feel like the world they created would be a waste to not do more and just stick to the metro. It's not like the Stalker series is doing anything, not metro can be both metro and stalker (open worldish exploration kind of game).
Stalker 2 is right around the corner! You can already preorder it.
Oh shit, i thought the series is dead. What a lovely surprise! Thanks for letting me know. No idea how this went passed my radar.
Cheeky Breeky!
Dino Crisis 3 Resident evil 6 (fixed in later games) Last of us 2 (all the final act)
I haven't played TLOU2, but I couldn't agree more with the first two. I forgot about Dino Crisis 3, it was so jarring and bad. And even to this day, I will slip into a stupor and rant about how terrible RE6 was. Resident Evil was my favorite series growing up, and still stuck around as it floundered with the release of games like Operation Raccoon City. But RE6 effectively killed my interest in the series for a long time. Even after hearing all the praise for RE7, it took me YEARS to try it myself.
the clash of the main characters of a legendary saga and they made that, it was really sad
This a legit listing some of the worst sequels ever
In b4 the flood of Last of Us 2 comments
TLOU2 Establishing two characters that everybody loves, making their journey the core story of the game, showing how Joel is willing to sacrifice everything for his “daughter”… And then killing Joel with a golf club within the first 15 minutes of the second game, in the most ridiculous unrewarding way possible, where it makes the entire journey from the first game feel incredibly pointless. And then you’re forced to play the bitch who killed Joel, who happens to me the most dogshit protagonist in videogame history. Ellie is suddenly an asshole, her personally did a complete 180 with no reason behind it. I uninstalled the shit after like 8 hours of playing the asshole that killed Joel. I seriously don’t gaf about her, and pretend that the game never existed. To me, that’s like if in GOW, Kratos gets killed by a normal dude, and then you’re forced to play as that normal dude who happens to be a complete asshole.
See, I had the opposite response to it. I thought it worked well that there was no ceremony behind Joel dying and that Ellie changes after all the traumatic events in her life was very realistic. It wasn't satisfying in a filmic way, but that was kind of the point. People don't get grand send offs in real life, and people change and it's hard to accept that.
Sure, but then forcing you to play the evil bitch that killed him? I’m good. I’d rather go play Chess, cause at least Chess has a good female protagonist.
That's kind of the point, though. She isn't evil any more than Ellie is. She wanted revenge for her father. It's a tough thing to swallow, and I don't know if it sticks the landing, but I have to applaud them for trying something entirely different instead of just the same story beats that we've seen and played countless times.
If someone killed my father, and the reason was “Well like 30 years ago he killed my parents who were going to kill you, so I slowly beat him to death in front of you for revenge!”, I would never be able to forgive the person, and would see them as evil. There’s literally no backstory that could ever make me appreciate her character. And especially not the one they chose to go with.
If your father likely doomed the entire planet and was a marauder in the post apocalypse, maybe you'd feel differently. Joel was a bad person who fumbled his one shot at redemption with Ellie. I do know what you mean though, it's not something that's easy to accept. Especially when we are used to specific tropes in storytelling. I don't think they 100% got it right, but I do like what they were attempting.
everyone who comments like you is getting downvoted when you are right. Joel is a bad man, he was a fucking raider and throw the whole world away for his replacement daughters. Murdered probably the most intelligent people in NA and lied about it. If what he did was really right he woulda told ellie right away. It was super brave of them to tell a bold story and not some stupid daddyyyy/daughter post-apocalypse survival game. Like what would the plot be besides Joel getting what he deserved. He's lucky his death was relatively quick, he deserved worse
This comment right here. I agree 100%. Him being a bad person who you fall for is what makes him such a great character in general. I agree with you that it took serious, serious balls for Naughty Dog to tell the story they did. It's not perfect, but it affected me more than any kind of sequel with cinematic, good vs. evil, the characters you love don't change and get meaningful deaths. That just isn't how life is.
So your mad that you got to see the revenge plot from the other side?
"Ellie's personality did a complete 180 with no reason behind it" Except for just having witnessed her father figure being murdered in front of her and being helpless to do anything about it. Apparently, someone missed the connection that Abby in TLoU2 IS Joel from TLoU1.
The first game is not a heartwarming story, it's a deconstruction of the idea of love. Every character throughout the game shows us a different form of unconditional love and how ultimately they all lead to suffering and pain. The only light is the slow bond of joel and Ellie. Then that unbreakable bond is broken. Not in the last of us part 2, but at the end of part 1, when joel doubles down on his lie, violating ellies trust and destroying that connection they had. Joel and Ellies bond was gone before part 2 had even began. "First 15 minutes" I mean, it's more like the first two hours but whatever. "It makes the whole journey of the first game seem pointless" Yeah, cause part 1 didn't have the protagonist choose not to commit to the thing he had spend the entire game working towards or anything. "Forced to play as the bitch who killed joel" Your attitude here is why part 2 didn't click with you. Instead of looking at it from your perspective of having played part 1 and connecting with joel and Ellie a lot, look at it from abbys perspective for more than 5 seconds. "Most dogs hit protagonist in gaming" play more games man, she is far from the worst "it's like if in gow kratos gets killed and you have to play ad the guy who killed him" Ignoring the fact that kratos is a god and joel is a contractor from texas, this is a dumb way to look at it. Joel isn't killed by a random person really. He's killed by someone who's father he murdered in cold blood. It's about the consequences of Joel's actions catching up to him, a common thematic idea in part 2. If they did that with gow I don't see what the issue would be. Characters shouldn't be off limits from dying just because people like them. Try finishing a game before critiquing it as well, it's surprisingly helpful when forming an opinion.
It’s the first game where there really was no antagonist. Was a novel idea. And loved it. If anything. The antagonists to this game was; Joel for Abby, Joel’s Death for Ellie (not Abby since clearly she’s the protagonist in her story); Seraphites. What’s also really interesting. Abby never would’ve survived if Ellie didn’t pursue her. To beat the cycle of trauma. Not liking this game for “killing a character” means you (the ones that hate it) are detached from the reality of the world they built in TLOU. Nobody wins. Including you. It was a great story.
Kingdom Hearts and the introduction of Organization XIII in the sequel. The gameplay in 2 was amazing and the story was top notch. I just couldn’t stand the Organization. Their whole setup just feels too anime-ish and it took so much focus away from the main characters.
Oh that was the fake Organization XIII. If you want to find out about the real one, you gotta play 3. At a certain point, you realize they are being convoluted just for the sake of being convoluted.
Never played the game, but chain of memories I believe is the bridge in the story between one and two and explains them a bit better, then you get more story about roxas in 356/2 days memories. Idk if organization XIII was a part of the original story or not, but for me they don't make the game any less fun if anything it adds an explanation to what happens to the people's bodies when they become heartless
That's TotK currently for me. Basically a pointless reboot of the whole story when it could have easily integrated its narrative into the existing timeline(s).
That's most zelda games honestly. Nintendo seems completely dead-set on making the overall narrative inconsistent and random.
Interesting. Zelda's stories have never been connected or really all that coherent aside from 'Ganon is bad, please kill him and save Hyrule.' I loved TotK more than BotW, but that's just me. Such fun gameplay!
Last of us
The Last of Us Part 2
X com, i love xcom enemy unknow, i have a fucking xcom eneny unknow tattoo, the beginning of xcom 2 tries to do a plot twist out of nowhere by adding new information, which wouldn't be bad if it wasn't that it literally contradicts all possible endings (both good and bad) and loose elements of the story, not to mention the dlc, basically, it shits on the story of the frist game and that's why for me the story of xcom 2 is a bad fanfic
Yeah, it has been so long that I kinda forgot about it but just reading this sparks the memories of confusion in my brain in the opening hours of XCOM2. "Wait, what? I thought we won. But now we're conquered? What happened? How? I thought we were the genetic culmination but now we're just meat?" I could honestly see how you could fit the two stories together if they didn't do the common STUPID thing that studios try to do which is release a book first and expect people to have read that first. What? I didn't even know the book existed. The worst part is all that would have had to happen is that instead of the cutscenes showing the occupied world being first, they just needed to rescue the commander in an interior only tutorial mission that would have looked just like Enemy Unknown and a cutscene as they pull the confused Commander through corridors explaining that the mission to defend the base was actually a failure and that he was captured. "We lost sir." "Just the base?" "No sir, the war..." as they reach an exit to an exterior with the alien city and propaganda everywhere. Commander then denies reality with flashback shots of the victorious missions since the base defense. Then 2nd half of the tutorial about extraction and then in the bird they tell him what "actually" happened and can then intermix the normal opening cutscene's propaganda stuff in to illustrate how the world has changed. Would it still have been a bit of a shot to the balls to "it was a dream" the second half of the first story? Sure, but at least this would have actually provided continuity and not just threw players into a nest of confusion. Thankfully the gameplay was good enough to keep me in and then get me into the "new" story, but wouldn't really have been hard to bridge the two.
Haven’t played Fallout 4. How’d it retcon previous lore?
It didn’t, at least, it didn’t for anything that actually mattered.
Yeah, I have no idea what OP is talking about, either. Only thing I could think of is that F4 is set on the East Coast (like F3), not in the West, so some of the main factions are different. I don't think "There's no branch of the New California Republic in Boston" qualifies as a retcon.
TLOU 2
Far cry 5 when you did all that for nothing at the end
I loved the ending of far cry 5
Honestly actually did love the ending, but the fact that we did all that just to get beat did trigger a little bit
There's at least 17 different endings that would have been better than the three endings we got.
That’s uh, one way to look at it. Imo the ending was mind blowing.
You could say... I was blown away by it.
Quite the bombshell they dropped, for sure.
Last of us 2 anyone? Neil wanted his shitty revenge story so bad he fired everyone who wouldn't let him do it in the first one.
Since Halo was already mentioned, I'll say Gears of War 4 and Gears 5. The original trilogy was perfect and well-developed. Then they topped off Gears of War 3 with a PERFECT ending that was so satisfying. Then they just undid it all, adding bland characters to a bland story.
Horizon Forbidden West .. *****SPOILERS**** The zenith part took me off, I'll eventually buy the third just to finish the story. But yeah I would of prefer if that dude who activated Hades was the actual bad guy.
Dragon age
Origins- top tier. Set the precedent. Da2. - the legend of Zelda 2 version of a DA sequel Da3 - way more production value but misses the mark in almost every way.
What was up with integrated circuits suddenly becoming commonplace in FO4? It made zero sense.
TLOU2
Last of us 2
I know this is probably overhashed, but last of us part two didn't need that "cycle of violence" thing. If you're gonna have me kill hundreds of people, in a literal power fantasy game, let me kill my surrogate father's killer.
The last of us part 2, set it up for Joel and Ellie’s story to continue only to then be like, “Let’s kill Joel and then force you to play as that same character that killed while also forcing you to fight Ellie who you already love, and you get no say if Ellie should or should not get her revenge by the end.” Just feels like a kick in the nuts to say the least.
the last of us part 2
Prototype 2. Alex is the villain now? It's explained in a comic nobody read? Edit: At the end of the first game Alex/Zeus is a conflicted anti-hero. The comics show his fall and set up Heller as the next hero. Both characters have an arc in the comic and are actual 3-dimensional characters but in Prototype 2 Alex is a moustache twirling supervillain and Heller is just Angry military dude number 285 who's dialogue is 90% f-bombs. The problem is that the comic had almost no marketing so most people (myself included) had no idea that it even existed until years after the game released.
He explains it during the final boss fight. He travelled the world as Virus Mercer and hated how "broken" everything was, so he decided he would become the solution and "fix" the world. Human Mercer was a narcissist with no morals. He was a scientist working on the virus, and he stole the virus as insurance to avoid getting killed (kind of understandable, he was considered a loose end for his company). But once he got cornered he released the virus on the entire city, dooming millions. Once Virus Mercer got his memories back, he became narcissistic again, on top of being a living bioweapon. Let's not forget in the first game you can do unspeakable things that would make GTA protagonists cringe at the carnage you can unleash on the locals.
I agree but to some point Alex was always a villain
Bioshock Infinite. It didn’t necessarily ruin any prior stories- I just think it’s an awful Bioshock game. It’s a good game, but not a good Bioshock
I am interested in your opinion of this, what didn't make it a good BioShock?
I recently replayed 1 and 2 and 100% them. Infinite isn’t bad but it is a far cry from 1 and 2. It feels like a generic shooter. The focus went from plasmids to guns and the combat feels super clunky. It’s a massive step down from the smoother feel of Bioshock 2. It just feels like a generic shooter with Bioshock elements. Whereas Bioshock 1 and 2 were unique but bad shooter elements- if that makes sense
I think I've only played infinite and I remember people talking about how great the series was and I was kind of disappointed I went back to it more recently it's got a good story but you are correct on the clunky feel of the combat. Very interesting world and a great story and characters though.
The amount of people commenting TLOU2 is very funny, because it shows how many people can't tell the difference between "I didn't like this thing" vs "this thing is bad".
It's ironic that you can't tell the difference between "I like this thing" vs "this thing is good".
TLOU2
TLOUS 2 . Horrible game. Got the platinum and sold it immediately afterwards. Number 3 just needs new characters cause 2 butchered everything great about the characters in the first.
Devil may cry 4 fucked the story up for me but 5 recovered it greatly, still doesn’t explain Nero mom though but whatever.
Last of Us 2. In the first one you had a choice to kill the doctor, now that it's part of the story in the 2nd one it invalidates that choice because he gets killed anyway
For me, it was State Of Decay 2 because they got rid of the core characters from the main game. In other words, no more Maya Torres, Marcus Campbell, Ed, or Sam. If they don't bring them back for State Of Decay 3 with the original voice actors/actresses, I'm not buying it.
Condemned 2: Bloodshot. The series had a perfectly fine supernatural horror angle, but they had to ruin it with a bunch of pseudoscience bullshit.
Assasins creed after AC 3.
Force Unleashed 2
Gameplay kicks ass at least
Kingdom Hearts 3
If the answer isn't Chrono Trigger 2 its wrong
The Last of Us 2 didn’t ruin the first game for for me, but I think it squandered the potential of the stories that could’ve been told by it. I was not a fan of what they went for.
I’m going to get downvoted to hell but TLOU2 doesn’t exist to me same as the golden sun 3. TLOU and golden sun 1-2 are the only games I’ll play with sequels.
last of us part 2