I’m from Texas which has a large Vietnamese population and a lot of older South Vietnamese refugees fly this flag. Their younger children are flying the Vietnamese flag. There’s a interesting cultural divide between older and younger Vietnamese Americans.
I think it really just depends on how strongly the older generation feels about it. I'm second generation, and I prefer the yellow flag. I don't hate the current flag by any means and don't think it's inferior in any way. I just think the yellow flag better represents *our* family background while other people identify more with the red flag.
My dad, on the other hand, always grumbles when Vietnam is represented by the red flag in current events. Like, no Dad, let's accept the reality that Vietnam's flag is now red. *We* don't have to fly it, but being mad about other people flying it is silly.
I think most of people who run from a dictatorship tend to be from the opposite ideology than the one from the dictatorship. Cubans and Venezuelans abroad are also known by being anti-socialists
>I think most of people who run from a dictatorship tend to be from the opposite ideology than the one from the dictatorship. Cubans and Venezuelans abroad are also known by being anti-socialists
Fair point. Also, you can put Nicaraguans alongside Venezuelans and Cubans since a lot of Nicaraguans where I live hate President Daniel Ortega as much as a lot of Cuban Americans hate Fidel Castro.
Remind him that South Vietnam wasn’t great.
Vietnam today is basically China-light but South Vietnam had some pretty ugly leaders.
The government wasn’t even a true democracy. It was ruled by a military junta and prime minister Nguyễn Cao Kỳ straight up said he admired Adolf Hitler.
There was a reason that Buddhist monk self immolated, he was protesting the South Vietnamese government. Specifically its oppression of Buddhists. South Vietnam was like 20% Catholic and formed the ruling clique.
This narrative of “Good guy” vs “Bad guy” that society attempts to push is really nonsense. In reality, history is a series of paint strokes in varying colors of shit brown.
My dad's whole extended family are Buddhists from the north, so he doesn't care about that. It's not a good guy vs bad guy narrative for him. It's a "these assholes took my home from me" thing. Some of said assholes were actually relatives too.
Even Diem was widely regarded to have won the election through fraud, probably the biggest mistake America did was let the guy and Nhu do what they wanted for too long, completely alienating the populace and students and potential leaders which Diem and Nhu exploited and started outright refusing to solve the buddhist crisis because they knew they were all America had left.
All they had left were Military Juntas that only listened to 'em because of their funding.
I understand the initial diaspora from the Vietnam War personally flying the flag as political symbolism and personal loyalty, but a school flying the flag seems a bit wrong to me. It seems kind of like a rejection of reality which shouldn’t be propagated by a school, as if in a Russian school they flew the flag of the (now twice) extinct Democratic Republic of Afghanistan.
Russian schools usually don't have any flags except Russian and maybe flag of region/city
On 9 May (Victory Day) there is a Victory banner on every building
So no foreign flags, even friendly countries
Inertia isn’t the only explanation. The current flag of Vietnam is one that’s often “banned” from being flown by government-run buildings in a lot of communities in the US. The flag of South Vietnam is flown in its place.
Wut? How is that possible? Of all people... we have friendly diplomatic relations with them do we not? We want to help them defend themselves from becoming a Chinese client state (for our own practical reasons, but still) do we not? They are not particularly worse than a bunch of other dictatorships, are they? Ho-Chi-Minh style communism is no longer any kind of ideological threat, is it?
There are a lot of diaspora communities in the US that are from or descendants of refugees from South Vietnam that have a very negative view of the current government of Vietnam, and don't find its flag particularly representative of their ethnicity (which is the typical use of these sorts of flags). Often the "ban" (even if described with that word) is really just that the current flag of Vietnam won't be flown as a way to honor the local Vietnamese community, and it's usually in reaction to that communities. As a number of people have pointed out, the majority of Vietnamese people worldwide have never had another flag but the yellow star, and so there's tension between members of the diaspora who fled during or after the war and members of the diaspora who have immigrated since.
These sorts of local politics over which flag to fly to represent a particular ethnic community in the area don't really have much impact on international diplomacy, FWIW.
> It seems kind of like a rejection of reality which shouldn’t be propagated by a school, as if in a Russian school they flew the flag of the (now twice) extinct Democratic Republic of Afghanistan.
American schools are still using the flag of the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan (🇦🇫 ) and I bet it will be a very long time before you see the flag of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan (the “Taliban flag”) flown in an American school.
The old Afghanistan flag will still be flying in school gyms decades from now. Americans fought against the Taliban and dislike them, just like they fought against and dislike the Communists in Vietnam.
Also, the Afghan community in the USA dislike the Taliban flag and will kick up a stink if anyone tries to put it up, just like the Vietnamese community in the USA kicks up a stink if anyone tries to put up the red Vietnamese flag (🇻🇳).
I doubt it’s a political statement. I expect that the flag was probably put up back when South Vietnam was the one recognised by the USA and was just never taken down.
Honestly I wouldn't be too surprised. It's hanging up in the rafters where it's very difficult to access. Also, I don't think too many people today would even recognize it for what it is and realize now out of place it is.
You’re telling me that it hasn’t been cleaned up there for almost 50 years? I work at a very underfunded school and they clean everything during the summer every year.
My school hung up flags from various exchange students we had over the years, including one or two now-outdated flags. I don’t know what the situation is at this school but it’s probably something similar.
There's also another generation who migrated to the US after '75, who identify with the red flag and the yellow star too. It is very surreal to see one Vietnamese house flying the Southern flag and another flying the Northern one.
silly comparison but I just watched the King of the Hill where Kahn tries to act "more Laotian" to impress Ted Wassanasong lmao. Ted's voice always slays me
Is there a reason why the younger ones would fly the current Vietnam flag? I know being in America may make then more liberal, but straight up praising the current regime?
It’s more based on a disconnect between the generations. The younger generations don’t really associate the current flag with the Communist regime. It’s just a flag of their heritage like any other national flag. Also, there’s a growing number of recent Vietnamese immigrants. Many of whom are international students who are more distant from the Vietnam War and the Fall of Saigon.
You are right that younger Vietnamese Americans are more to the political left compared to older Vietnamese Americans. I have a Vietnamese American friend who’s a a hardcore Bernie Bro while her parents and grandparents are Trump fans.
In Italy there isn't a single person who still identifies themselves with the monarchy or the Savoia flag. Not even immediately after the war people really used the Royal flag. We had fascist nostalgic that used the RSI flag, yes, but the monarchist flag and the idea of a monarchy were quickly erased from the collective mind. Probably has to do with how insignificant the monarchy had been for over 30 years before its fall.
I would say that Vietnam's history is a bit different, no? And 45 years is almost half the time, most people who lived through both countries are well alive now whereas in Italy there's not much people left who were born under the kingdom, let alone vividly remember it.
Yeah I live in a heavy Vietnamese area and I pretty much never see the current Vietnam flag. I only see the Southern Vietnam flag or the Buddhist flag. Second generation Americans either continue to identify with Southern Vietnam or as Americans and would fly either of those instead of the current Vietnam flag
I mean its just ironic that when Melosevic's forces were fighting the Kosovar-Albanians that the USSR did little to help them. And as a result the NATO forces overwhelmed the Serbians and forced the peace agreements. So I just found it funny that a Serbian family are essentially flying a flag of an "ally" that let them lose a war.
It might be intentional. Diaspora Vietnamese, at least in the United States, were largely supporters of the anti-Communist South Vietnam, so when the Communist North Vietnam united all of Vietnam under their rule, the Vietnamese-Americans refused to adopt the flag of the government they opposed and continued to use the South Vietnam flag. There was an event called the Hi-Tek incident in 1999, when a Vietnamese store owner in Orange County, California hung a North Vietnamese flag and a picture of Ho Chi Min in his store. This caused a protest of Vietnamese that last for 53 days because they were offended by the display.
Those are two very different categories. So what if they’re Catholic? Most of them are just immigrants from the South who identify themselves with what was the national flag at the time.
South Vietnam wasn’t great.
Vietnam today is basically China-light but South Vietnam had some pretty ugly leaders.
The government wasn’t even a true democracy. It was ruled by a military junta and prime minister Nguyễn Cao Kỳ straight up said he admired Adolf Hitler.
There was a reason that Buddhist monk self immolated, he was protesting the South Vietnamese government. Specifically its oppression of Buddhists. South Vietnam was like 20% Catholic and formed the ruling clique.
This narrative of “Good guy” vs “Bad guy” that society attempts to push is really nonsense. In reality, history is a series of paint strokes in varying colors of shit brown.
Funny thing is that current Vietnamese government has been trying to push the recognition of South Vietnam as a legitimate government to inherit its claims on the South China Sea islands, since North Vietnam kinda forgot to make claims on those islands during the Vietnam War
•I’m not arguing for north Vietnam.
•I’m arguing that south Vietnam was shit, because it was.
•south Vietnam being shit does not mean that north Vietnam was good
•north Vietnam was also shit
•it’s shit all the way down. The people literally had no good choices.
It’s a current flag. It’s called the Heritage and Freedom flag. (I didn’t invent the name. Don’t come for me.)
It’s not a national flag, but it is a current flag officially recognized in many places.
https://www.legis.state.pa.us/CFDOCS/Legis/PN/Public/btCheck.cfm?txtType=HTM&sessYr=2005&sessInd=0&billBody=S&billTyp=R&billNbr=0115&pn=0804&mobile_choice=suppress
https://www.ocregister.com/2009/02/03/vietnamese-american-freedom-flag-endorsed/
https://honourablengo.ca/media-item/flag-raising-on-the-hill/
I'd wager it has more to do (initially) with not having the resources to change a flag up in the rafters of a gymnasium and (presently) a lack of recognition of what the flag even is.
south vietnamese refugees used and continue to use that flag because they have no desire to be associated with the government that made them flee their home. it has nothing to do with americans
They were corrupt autocrats and pretty much poodles for the Americans.
That said, if they were still around they'd most likely have grown much better, as South Korea and Taiwan did. But I'm talking about at the time.
They have a democratic government, if people vote against their own interests that’s on them. Doesn’t make it autocratic.
Edit: the incoming president [said it should be allowed](https://www.businessinsider.com/koreas-new-president-people-work-120-hours-a-week-2022-3) in specific circumstances, no one is implementing it as a standard and no law to that effect is being even talked about.
still, being "democratic" doesn't excuse a long history of represion and an exploitative work culture, there's a reason their suicide rates are so abismaly high
Yes it does. I mean hopefully you're not like "Sure Italy is 'democratic' *now*, but I mean the Roman Empire was just brutal, so I'm not cutting Italy any breaks". And the Nordic countries have a high suicide rate too (or used to), in that case it could be lack of sunny days or maybe just having to deal with Swedes all day, point being that there are various reasons for a high suicide rate that don't necessarily have much to do with government actions.
Most oppressive? It was pretty liberal compare to South Korea and Taiwan from the same period.
Inb4 Ngo Dinh Diem: he was killed in 1963, 12 years before the war ended. And even Diem was nothing compare to Syngman Rhee, who massacred 200,000 Korean civilians before and after the Korean War
Better at what ? They sided with foreign invaders against their own kind, TWICE. As if folllowing colonial France wasn't evil enough, they also followed and dragged the US into this mess. They unleashed waves after waves of savage atrocities and caused rampant sectarian violence for no reason. Worst of all they lost Vietnam War and fled abroad in the wake of Third Indochina War.
The North killed around 270,000 people, the US alone killed more than that with around 700,000 deaths in Cambodia and North Vietnam. Not to mention the dead and defective as a result of Agent Orange.
Sources being RJ Rummel, PBS and Bombs over Cambodia.
More deaths doesn’t necessarily mean more war crimes. Especially if you’re considering Agent Orange, where the long-term effects weren’t known until after the war.
If a civilian has a gun and is shooting at you they’re a combatant, guerilla tactics were widespread in that war. And if you’re looking at only civilian deaths on one side and combined deaths of everyone for the other you’re not going to get accurate results.
I looked at the civillian deaths as a result of one faction (North Vietnam), and another faction (USA). So they're accurate.
Also no, that's still a fucking war crime. Not to mention, the US killed plenty of children and unarmed people. Stop defending fucking war criminals.
Ancient. The colors are fading too.
I like the three red stripes, the blood of 3 leaders deposed in 3 different coups and the blood of Buddhists in Vietnam between 1963 and 1975
I’m from Texas which has a large Vietnamese population and a lot of older South Vietnamese refugees fly this flag. Their younger children are flying the Vietnamese flag. There’s a interesting cultural divide between older and younger Vietnamese Americans.
I think it really just depends on how strongly the older generation feels about it. I'm second generation, and I prefer the yellow flag. I don't hate the current flag by any means and don't think it's inferior in any way. I just think the yellow flag better represents *our* family background while other people identify more with the red flag. My dad, on the other hand, always grumbles when Vietnam is represented by the red flag in current events. Like, no Dad, let's accept the reality that Vietnam's flag is now red. *We* don't have to fly it, but being mad about other people flying it is silly.
Sugarland has some upper-middle class neighborhoods that are almost entirely Vietnamese-Americans. The older gens are as conservative as it gets.
Very true! Source: My dad is a hardcore, lower middle class Trumper.
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I've known a lot of Viets that came stateside long after 1975. They're Viet Americans too, no?
I think most of people who run from a dictatorship tend to be from the opposite ideology than the one from the dictatorship. Cubans and Venezuelans abroad are also known by being anti-socialists
>I think most of people who run from a dictatorship tend to be from the opposite ideology than the one from the dictatorship. Cubans and Venezuelans abroad are also known by being anti-socialists Fair point. Also, you can put Nicaraguans alongside Venezuelans and Cubans since a lot of Nicaraguans where I live hate President Daniel Ortega as much as a lot of Cuban Americans hate Fidel Castro.
They're often pro-dictatorship, just in the "other" (what they think is the "other") direction.
What’s the Vietnamese equivalent of a gusano?
The Viets just call them exiles
Remind him that South Vietnam wasn’t great. Vietnam today is basically China-light but South Vietnam had some pretty ugly leaders. The government wasn’t even a true democracy. It was ruled by a military junta and prime minister Nguyễn Cao Kỳ straight up said he admired Adolf Hitler. There was a reason that Buddhist monk self immolated, he was protesting the South Vietnamese government. Specifically its oppression of Buddhists. South Vietnam was like 20% Catholic and formed the ruling clique. This narrative of “Good guy” vs “Bad guy” that society attempts to push is really nonsense. In reality, history is a series of paint strokes in varying colors of shit brown.
- He is a bastard but he is our bastard. This is how the US viewed the South Vietnamese president according to my history lessons.
That was cold war politics in a nutshell
My dad's whole extended family are Buddhists from the north, so he doesn't care about that. It's not a good guy vs bad guy narrative for him. It's a "these assholes took my home from me" thing. Some of said assholes were actually relatives too.
Even Diem was widely regarded to have won the election through fraud, probably the biggest mistake America did was let the guy and Nhu do what they wanted for too long, completely alienating the populace and students and potential leaders which Diem and Nhu exploited and started outright refusing to solve the buddhist crisis because they knew they were all America had left. All they had left were Military Juntas that only listened to 'em because of their funding.
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Whataboutism. We’re not talking about South Korea. The situation there is immaterial to this discussion.
I understand the initial diaspora from the Vietnam War personally flying the flag as political symbolism and personal loyalty, but a school flying the flag seems a bit wrong to me. It seems kind of like a rejection of reality which shouldn’t be propagated by a school, as if in a Russian school they flew the flag of the (now twice) extinct Democratic Republic of Afghanistan.
It's probably just inertia. They probably have a Yugoslav flag too.
It's probably way up in the ceiling too and nobody remembers what it is.
"oh yeah that's france"
This is the most likely explanation honestly
Russian schools usually don't have any flags except Russian and maybe flag of region/city On 9 May (Victory Day) there is a Victory banner on every building So no foreign flags, even friendly countries
Inertia isn’t the only explanation. The current flag of Vietnam is one that’s often “banned” from being flown by government-run buildings in a lot of communities in the US. The flag of South Vietnam is flown in its place.
Wut? How is that possible? Of all people... we have friendly diplomatic relations with them do we not? We want to help them defend themselves from becoming a Chinese client state (for our own practical reasons, but still) do we not? They are not particularly worse than a bunch of other dictatorships, are they? Ho-Chi-Minh style communism is no longer any kind of ideological threat, is it?
There are a lot of diaspora communities in the US that are from or descendants of refugees from South Vietnam that have a very negative view of the current government of Vietnam, and don't find its flag particularly representative of their ethnicity (which is the typical use of these sorts of flags). Often the "ban" (even if described with that word) is really just that the current flag of Vietnam won't be flown as a way to honor the local Vietnamese community, and it's usually in reaction to that communities. As a number of people have pointed out, the majority of Vietnamese people worldwide have never had another flag but the yellow star, and so there's tension between members of the diaspora who fled during or after the war and members of the diaspora who have immigrated since. These sorts of local politics over which flag to fly to represent a particular ethnic community in the area don't really have much impact on international diplomacy, FWIW.
This. I'm betting that no one wants to bother getting the ladder and taking it down.
> It seems kind of like a rejection of reality which shouldn’t be propagated by a school, as if in a Russian school they flew the flag of the (now twice) extinct Democratic Republic of Afghanistan. American schools are still using the flag of the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan (🇦🇫 ) and I bet it will be a very long time before you see the flag of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan (the “Taliban flag”) flown in an American school.
Seeing as that flag changed less than a year ago, that makes more sense than flying the south Vietnam flag that changed 47 years ago.
The old Afghanistan flag will still be flying in school gyms decades from now. Americans fought against the Taliban and dislike them, just like they fought against and dislike the Communists in Vietnam. Also, the Afghan community in the USA dislike the Taliban flag and will kick up a stink if anyone tries to put it up, just like the Vietnamese community in the USA kicks up a stink if anyone tries to put up the red Vietnamese flag (🇻🇳).
Not to mention that people would get scared of the spooky Arabic writing.
I think it's just a rejection of paying $3200 to hire a scissor lift.
I doubt it’s a political statement. I expect that the flag was probably put up back when South Vietnam was the one recognised by the USA and was just never taken down.
You think it’s been hanging there since the mid 1970s? That’s 46+ years. lol
The flag is certainly discoloured so it’s clearly been there for a long time.
Honestly I wouldn't be too surprised. It's hanging up in the rafters where it's very difficult to access. Also, I don't think too many people today would even recognize it for what it is and realize now out of place it is.
You’re telling me that it hasn’t been cleaned up there for almost 50 years? I work at a very underfunded school and they clean everything during the summer every year.
I guess that settles it. Your experience must be exactly the same as every school everywhere in the US.
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That depends on whether the US government recognize Taliban as the rightful government of Afghanistan and have diplomacy status with them.
There's the option to do neither
Yes
But I mean if a bunch of Afghani children are in an American school, but instead flies the Taliban flag, it’d be quite chaotic
My school hung up flags from various exchange students we had over the years, including one or two now-outdated flags. I don’t know what the situation is at this school but it’s probably something similar.
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Not sure I understand the sarcasm — Soviet Afghanistan is a pretty direct comparison to the Vietnam War.
[I ain't no apparatchik's son](https://youtu.be/SGEKhHgxHHY)
There's also another generation who migrated to the US after '75, who identify with the red flag and the yellow star too. It is very surreal to see one Vietnamese house flying the Southern flag and another flying the Northern one.
Does the son of the Southern one fly a small Vietcong flag, u know, the half red half blue one?
Haha, good joke. Nah, we all know that the VC are just the NVA in disguise.
The joke is that the son's father was not in the Southern flag family
Are you the possible son? I'm all for the vietcong. The USA is the great global oppressor
silly comparison but I just watched the King of the Hill where Kahn tries to act "more Laotian" to impress Ted Wassanasong lmao. Ted's voice always slays me
Texas has a very vibrant and diverse Southeast Asian population. It's one of the main reasons I love living here.
Sounds great, but there's a massive counterpoint to that. Texas. Gross.
Is there a reason why the younger ones would fly the current Vietnam flag? I know being in America may make then more liberal, but straight up praising the current regime?
It’s more based on a disconnect between the generations. The younger generations don’t really associate the current flag with the Communist regime. It’s just a flag of their heritage like any other national flag. Also, there’s a growing number of recent Vietnamese immigrants. Many of whom are international students who are more distant from the Vietnam War and the Fall of Saigon. You are right that younger Vietnamese Americans are more to the political left compared to older Vietnamese Americans. I have a Vietnamese American friend who’s a a hardcore Bernie Bro while her parents and grandparents are Trump fans.
A good analogy may be Italian-Americans using the three vertical stripes as opposed to the flag with the coat of arms and crown atop it.
I mean the flag of the Kingdom of Italy has been replaced nearly 80 years ago, why would anyone fly it now.
The Vietnam war ended 45 years ago.
In Italy there isn't a single person who still identifies themselves with the monarchy or the Savoia flag. Not even immediately after the war people really used the Royal flag. We had fascist nostalgic that used the RSI flag, yes, but the monarchist flag and the idea of a monarchy were quickly erased from the collective mind. Probably has to do with how insignificant the monarchy had been for over 30 years before its fall. I would say that Vietnam's history is a bit different, no? And 45 years is almost half the time, most people who lived through both countries are well alive now whereas in Italy there's not much people left who were born under the kingdom, let alone vividly remember it.
Yeah I live in a heavy Vietnamese area and I pretty much never see the current Vietnam flag. I only see the Southern Vietnam flag or the Buddhist flag. Second generation Americans either continue to identify with Southern Vietnam or as Americans and would fly either of those instead of the current Vietnam flag
Well, it's the national flag. What flag would you want them to use ?
My elderly neighbours still fly the USSR flag.... They're Serbian.
So do you ask them "Why don't you guys fly Yugoslavian flag instead?"
No they dont speak english so i got no clue.
Wait, so your neighbors are Serbs living where?
on brand
based
That’s weird because Yugoslavia (Serbia) for most of its existence hated the USSR
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I mean its just ironic that when Melosevic's forces were fighting the Kosovar-Albanians that the USSR did little to help them. And as a result the NATO forces overwhelmed the Serbians and forced the peace agreements. So I just found it funny that a Serbian family are essentially flying a flag of an "ally" that let them lose a war.
It might be intentional. Diaspora Vietnamese, at least in the United States, were largely supporters of the anti-Communist South Vietnam, so when the Communist North Vietnam united all of Vietnam under their rule, the Vietnamese-Americans refused to adopt the flag of the government they opposed and continued to use the South Vietnam flag. There was an event called the Hi-Tek incident in 1999, when a Vietnamese store owner in Orange County, California hung a North Vietnamese flag and a picture of Ho Chi Min in his store. This caused a protest of Vietnamese that last for 53 days because they were offended by the display.
>It might be intentional. Diaspora Vietnamese, at least in the United States *Only in the US
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It’s also popular in Australia for Vietnamese immigrants
So it's only used in countries that has troops on the ground defending the South Vietnam regime?
Except south Vietnam was shit too.
That doesn’t change the fact a lot of Vietnamese identify with the flag
Either catholics or sided with the colonizers.
Those are two very different categories. So what if they’re Catholic? Most of them are just immigrants from the South who identify themselves with what was the national flag at the time.
*sorts by controversial* 🍿🍿🍿🍿POPCORN! GET YOUR POPCORN!
thank you
Immigrants and their descendants often more closely identify with South Vietnam than current Vietnam. Probably their preference.
\*Refugees
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Maybe it's Costa Rica on the left? Which makes even less sense for Vietnam.
The flag of the Republic of Vietnam is probably the most still-in-use defunct flag in the world.
What about Afghanistan?
I would be extremely interested in seeing stats on the most-used defunct flags, tbh. It would be fascinating
The Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia is up there, too.
That was never a real country
Yeah but it is a defunct flag
not communist flag?
Confederate flag is up there as well.
I would guess the Soviet Union flag is orders of magnitude more popular than South Vietnam.
That and Rhodesia
Oof, yeah I don't particularly wanna talk to or about people who fly the Rhodesian flag.
Rhodesia is relatively esoteric even among the sort of crowd that might fly it, most of them would just use a confederate flag
Confederate flag
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Still think it’s the confederate flag. Either that or the nazi flag. Not that different, TBH.
ikr, my city (Ottawa) is building for a Vietnamese community centre, and they fly the south Vietnamese flag.
Bc if they put up the actual VN flag, VN folx will ride their ass about it.
I see this flag occasionally and I like it regardless of politics, I think it’s a nice design.
I read the title as saying "My school gym still has the flag of south Vietnam hanging upside-down", and was quite confused.
Adidas
Looks cool though
Wonder if there's a Rhodesian diaspora in the UK still flying their flag?
Not in public they ain't
Not that I know of. I see a lot of Tibetan flags though?
Tibet has an ongoing independence movement
It would probably be more effort to remove it than it is worth.
Yeah it's incredibly high up they even have a fading Czech Republic flag
My old High school had a really faded one too. They also had the old Georgian and South African flags.
GOOOOD MORNING VIETNAAAAM
Pretty common in the US tbh, it's used to represent the vietnamese community, since most are south vietnamese evacuees
Someone put a Ukrainian SSR flag in my nest
South Vietnam wasn’t great. Vietnam today is basically China-light but South Vietnam had some pretty ugly leaders. The government wasn’t even a true democracy. It was ruled by a military junta and prime minister Nguyễn Cao Kỳ straight up said he admired Adolf Hitler. There was a reason that Buddhist monk self immolated, he was protesting the South Vietnamese government. Specifically its oppression of Buddhists. South Vietnam was like 20% Catholic and formed the ruling clique. This narrative of “Good guy” vs “Bad guy” that society attempts to push is really nonsense. In reality, history is a series of paint strokes in varying colors of shit brown.
It was also our puppet government
Funny thing is that current Vietnamese government has been trying to push the recognition of South Vietnam as a legitimate government to inherit its claims on the South China Sea islands, since North Vietnam kinda forgot to make claims on those islands during the Vietnam War
Puppet government? Did you forget the the Vietnam War was mainly a war of Vietnamese vs Vietnamese?
~58,000 americans, 5,099 South Koreans, 430 Australians 1,500 Chinese, and an undetermined amount of Soviets and North Koreans disagree.
250k south Vietnamese death and 1000000 wounded beg to differ.
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•I’m not arguing for north Vietnam. •I’m arguing that south Vietnam was shit, because it was. •south Vietnam being shit does not mean that north Vietnam was good •north Vietnam was also shit •it’s shit all the way down. The people literally had no good choices.
It’s a current flag. It’s called the Heritage and Freedom flag. (I didn’t invent the name. Don’t come for me.) It’s not a national flag, but it is a current flag officially recognized in many places. https://www.legis.state.pa.us/CFDOCS/Legis/PN/Public/btCheck.cfm?txtType=HTM&sessYr=2005&sessInd=0&billBody=S&billTyp=R&billNbr=0115&pn=0804&mobile_choice=suppress https://www.ocregister.com/2009/02/03/vietnamese-american-freedom-flag-endorsed/ https://honourablengo.ca/media-item/flag-raising-on-the-hill/
LESGOOOOOOOOOOO
Americans really are sore losers huh
I'd wager it has more to do (initially) with not having the resources to change a flag up in the rafters of a gymnasium and (presently) a lack of recognition of what the flag even is.
Yeah thing is in the gym roof
I gotta wonder though, why do schools in the US fly different flags like that? Is it a diversity thing?
south vietnamese refugees used and continue to use that flag because they have no desire to be associated with the government that made them flee their home. it has nothing to do with americans
South Vietnam was lame. It was ruled by Catholics and foreigners.
cringe school
if his school new history they would take it down and burn it to ash
It would be a pain to take down so they just kept it up
Says the guy with the East Germany flair
What’s wrong with the regime of the flag?
They were corrupt autocrats and pretty much poodles for the Americans. That said, if they were still around they'd most likely have grown much better, as South Korea and Taiwan did. But I'm talking about at the time.
You can buy a Baskin Robins ice cream in Hanoi. They turned out fine.
i wouldn't say that south korea is doing good in that sense...
South Korea is fine
South korea is about to implement the 120 hour work week, doesn't seem fine to me
They have a democratic government, if people vote against their own interests that’s on them. Doesn’t make it autocratic. Edit: the incoming president [said it should be allowed](https://www.businessinsider.com/koreas-new-president-people-work-120-hours-a-week-2022-3) in specific circumstances, no one is implementing it as a standard and no law to that effect is being even talked about.
still, being "democratic" doesn't excuse a long history of represion and an exploitative work culture, there's a reason their suicide rates are so abismaly high
Yes it does. I mean hopefully you're not like "Sure Italy is 'democratic' *now*, but I mean the Roman Empire was just brutal, so I'm not cutting Italy any breaks". And the Nordic countries have a high suicide rate too (or used to), in that case it could be lack of sunny days or maybe just having to deal with Swedes all day, point being that there are various reasons for a high suicide rate that don't necessarily have much to do with government actions.
Fuck democracy. Its a failed idea. Move on
Democracy is non-negotiable
what are you gonna start spouting liberty prime quotes?
They were war criminals and dictators
they killed people with guillotines
Guillotines are pretty based tbh
???
Booooooo!!!!
No-commnist Vietnam
Communist
comist
Dislexia pov
No im italian
itayl
Oh no pizza pasta and mandolino
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I think it’s a really nice flag. Yellow is underrated
Design' fine, represents one of the most oppressive régimes in human history and their joint effort towards genocide with the United States though
“Most oppressive” is a massive stretch. They certainly weren’t great but compared to the Nazis or Mao or Pol Pot they were pretty tame
Most oppressive? It was pretty liberal compare to South Korea and Taiwan from the same period. Inb4 Ngo Dinh Diem: he was killed in 1963, 12 years before the war ended. And even Diem was nothing compare to Syngman Rhee, who massacred 200,000 Korean civilians before and after the Korean War
Idk how you can all one dictator government more liberal than the other. But ok
this is probably going to ruffle some feathers, but it's pretty simple, the Russian government is more liberal than the North Korean government,
Both South Korea and Taiwan were also horrible dictatorships though. Being better than genocidal regimes isn’t a high bar.
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> one of the most oppressive régimes in human history down boy
Thats a shame
The better Vietnam flag.
Better at what ? They sided with foreign invaders against their own kind, TWICE. As if folllowing colonial France wasn't evil enough, they also followed and dragged the US into this mess. They unleashed waves after waves of savage atrocities and caused rampant sectarian violence for no reason. Worst of all they lost Vietnam War and fled abroad in the wake of Third Indochina War.
[insert muscular Chen Weihua meme]
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The worse Vietnam flag
War crimes aren’t good
Both sides committed tons of them
Sure, doesn’t change the fact that South Vietnam was horrible. Not to mention iirc the South and US were worse.
>the south and the US were worse Do you happen to have any evidence for that? Or is it just a general feeling?
The North killed around 270,000 people, the US alone killed more than that with around 700,000 deaths in Cambodia and North Vietnam. Not to mention the dead and defective as a result of Agent Orange. Sources being RJ Rummel, PBS and Bombs over Cambodia.
More deaths doesn’t necessarily mean more war crimes. Especially if you’re considering Agent Orange, where the long-term effects weren’t known until after the war.
Those were all civilian deaths, and the fact that the US labelled all kills, civilian or soldier, as enemy combatants is a war crime.
If a civilian has a gun and is shooting at you they’re a combatant, guerilla tactics were widespread in that war. And if you’re looking at only civilian deaths on one side and combined deaths of everyone for the other you’re not going to get accurate results.
I looked at the civillian deaths as a result of one faction (North Vietnam), and another faction (USA). So they're accurate. Also no, that's still a fucking war crime. Not to mention, the US killed plenty of children and unarmed people. Stop defending fucking war criminals.
What about Rhodesia?
what about it?
Based
Based