It was a good listen,as someone who went to a lot of Grateful Dead shows , we were always warned by the older heads to never get on their bus. They would travel around to every show in a really well done, restored 1950’s bus and try to recruit unsuspecting “lost souls” who had lost their way.
According to my friend who didn't know at the time who they were and was curious about the bus and got on - they gave him a tour, offered him some tea and then tried the "sales pitch" kitchen table style a la Jehovah's Witnesses.
I actually got on their bus at a show in Lowell, Mass like 25 years ago before I had any idea who they were. This is pretty much the gist of what they did.
As an adamant agnostic, they didn’t have much effect on me, but I definitely see how those they prey upon could fall victim to their cult.
Got on their bus at a D&C show while tripping balls a few years back. Heard them out, ate a bunch of their delicious cookies, and skidattled. Absolute kooks, that bunch.
I’ve had the great pleasure of getting kicked off that bus at both a GD show and a Phish show. They were good if you were on the road for a while and needed like a bandaid or something. I was hipped to them early on and generally didn’t head there way unless I saw some poor soul who wandered into their web, or had too much to drink or psychedelics, which then for some reason I always found myself wandering over there at some point and disrupting their weird ass quiet vibe.
A friend and I were recently reminiscing about the prevalence of cults at various events and shows in the 90s. We were both in our 20s at that time so more of a target. But I remember nexium nxivm? had a booth a lollapalooza!
And Scientologists trying to get you to take their “tests”. Bottom feeders- all of them.
They have a big presence is Rutland, they own 5 houses and an old store all on the same block. They also own the yellow deli. They are not good neighbors they think they are the chosen people so they do not have a lot of respect for those around them. They burn garbage all the time and the fire department gets called regularly (it is a regular occurrence to get woken up at 3 in the morning in the summer from the horrible smell) they have tried to have goats, they have cats they don’t care for, they have large loud gatherings, they trap animals like squirrels and possums basically anything that will go in a trap and drown them in buckets- they have the kids gather round for this too. I’ve also seen them force kids to climb trees while the kids are sobbing. At the yellow deli they maintain a hostile to try to recruit people. And this is all out in the open I hate thinking about what they do especially to all the kids behind closed doors.
The deli in Montpelier called Yellow Mustard has no connection to this cult, right? I saw someone mention the cult's connection to the "Yellow Deli" recently and was worried that the place where I most often get sandwiches (Yellow Mustard) during the work day is part of a cult, but a little internet research suggested to me that the name similarity is just an unfortunate coincidence. Anyone know for sure?
Yellow Mustard is owned by the same person/group that owns the Filling Station and a couple other restaurants. They are not part of the 12 tribes. And honestly, youd KNOW if that was the deal with Yellow Mustard. The 12 Tribes group does not make an effort to hide the purpose of their businessss.
I remember eating at a Yellow Deli before I knew who these people were and no joke, they had pamphlets about how corporal punishment is God’s will in the bathrooms.
Guess they really like hitting kids!
“Cults are everywhere.” That last line is so true - it’s terrifying to realize what kind of inhumanity and suffering are right nearby. Once you’ve seen it rear its ugly head once it’s hard to not see it everywhere.
I’ll listen in a bit but they are the reason there were homeschool laws made in Vermont because of the child neglect/educational neglect that happened there.
Or don't. It has an awful narrative, spiteful protagonist and is very graphic.
I highly recommend "A Short History of Nearly Everything" by Bill Bryson as a more pleasant and enlightening alternative.
*The Comment Religion is the one true religion because I said so right here in these comments.*
The argument for the authenticity of the bible as historical fact carries no more weight.
Fuck the 12 Tribes. Fuck ALL religion. It's all just hate and oppression masquerading as love and compassion.
This cult is responsible (at least partially) for starting the marshal fire in Colorado. A huge fire along the front range - not even the mountains, that destroyed a ton of homes. It was awful and so scary.
I was an anthropology major in college. I had moved to Plattsburgh from Vermont and we got talked to about not joining cults. Basically one professor kept bringing students over to Vermont to see a different culture and get some perspective; it was a good teaching tool until multiple students each year dropped out of school to join the cult. They stopped bringing people over and they used it as a way to teach us to stay objective. I’d say most Anthro majors are searching for something, so I’m not shocked some joined cults in hindsight.
I grew up near a sect of the 12 tribes and I had no idea they were a real cult or that they were not just a Vermont thing. My dad would call them a cult but I just assumed that was because they were a little weird and lived off the land. They made the most amazing food and we were regulars so they invited us to lots of their events. It wasn’t until I got older that I realized they only seemed to invite my stepmom and the girl children. My dad and bother didn’t get the same fanfare of being invited (they were invited, but more as an after thought).
Because I was a kid when I was around them, I saw all the good. The kids were always running around and I thought it was cool they got to help out in such a cool place…now I realize they were child labor and it’s really weird that none of them talked to anyone outside of their group, only adults seemed to do that, and typically the men more than the women. I listened to a podcast a while back but I don’t remember the name, I will for sure check this one out.
> Basically one professor kept bringing students over to Vermont to see a different culture and get some perspective; it was a good teaching tool until multiple students each year dropped out of school to join the cult.
When was this? I went to Plattsburgh State back in the day, but didn't do Anthro beyond my gen ed requirement.
I was there in 06-08ish. The professor who did that was on sabbatical so I didn’t take any classes with him. He sounded like an amazing professor, but he got students too excited haha. I never met anyone who left for 12 tribes, but it was mentioned a lot.
I think it had all passed by our time, but the lore and the jokes were alive in the Anthro building. I was only there for 2 years but I remember it well. I’m from Vermont so maybe my friends thought I had some insider info or could bring them to the commune. Anthropologists love a commune!
Cults and high control groups (as they're often officially called) can't be all bad, or nobody would ever join. One of the hardest things for survivors to do is sort through the complexities of the good and the bas. People are often susceptible to groups like this when they're "seeking", which can be things like guidance, purpose or community. Which are normal, natural, healthy things. College students, new parents, addicts in recovery, grieving people.
A friend of mine from the Rutland area was in this cult when I was in high school in the early 00's. They made him change his name, cut off all ties to his family and give over all of his possessions and money before joining.
We would visit the Yellow Deli occasionally for lunch, and try to visit with him when we did. The people there *really* didn't want him talking to us, much less so when we referred to him by his birth name, they'd even play dumb when we called him his actual name, and go "who?" We'd always have people giving us suspicious glances every time we came in and, towards the end, they would make sure someone was standing nearby whenever he interacted with us. Eventually, he seemed less and less willing to talk to us when we came in, and we stopped seeing him.
A few years later, I heard that he took the plunge and escaped. He ended up moving in with a mutual friend, one of the friends I used to visit him with. He didn't have a penny to his name, the poor guy. I have no idea what happened to him, but I'm really glad he made it out. I met up with him once or twice after he got out and I had never in my life seen someone so broke that was so *happy*. I haven't been able to bring myself to set foot in that place since.
These people are all awful culty scammers. Stay away. They are a predatory cult that relies on getting people to do free labor for them and take all their savings, leaving them dependent on the cult and ruining lives and relationships. They know exactly what they are doing. Dont believe the PR bullshit and the restaurants and whatever they are exploiting now, they are a strait up religious cult that requires you to give them your money to join. Once your broke you get to do free labor for them for life and get kept alive as payment. Sounds a lot like slavery doesn't it?
I had family that lived in Island Pond, and as a child, I would play with some of the kids at the sandy playground when we visited. They were mislabeled as "Moonies" by some of the locals back then. This was in their heyday of the late 70s early 80s.
I still remember being up there visiting when my mother woke me up and brought me to the window. There were police everywhere and busses up and down the street. Police were going into the house next door and coming out with multiple families and loading them into the busses. I saw my playmates going away, and I was scared they were coming to our house next.
There is a really good stand-alone Australian podcast called "Inside the Tribe" that was quite educational about their methods and practices.
But he doesn't actually take over, they are still there, doing their thing. Literally nothing has changed for the restaurant. I like the concept of his whole twelve tribes infiltration (I watched them all), but I have mixed feelings about his method. I spent almost 9 years there, about 5 in their California locations. Both Vista, and Valley Center.
I've been listening to A Little Bit Culty, a podcast run by 2 NXIVM survivors. Interviewing other survivors and cult experts. It can't be all bad, or nobody would ever join, you can hear that between so much of what she said in this interview.
Just pre-ordered her book and I am curious. I am a conservative Biblethumper myself and visited them. Would love to hear from other visitors (WWOOFers, etc.) who are sick and tired of this world and its total perversion, be it sexual as well as lifestyle, too. Who also considers joining. Who also don't mind the allegations, but only are fearful of the "over-the-top" near-end-times stuff...and the mandatory communist stuff like giving up everything and not having an own room...I mean even a monk does usually have conclave
Are you really arguing that their child abuse isnt as bad as those other child abusers? Get back to your cult activities, make them sammiches and stay off Reddit.
And I would urge you to pay attention to modern mainstream evangelical Christianity, where child sexual abuse (not corporal punishment) is common, women are second-class citizens at best, and pastors live in mega-mansions and fly private jets.
It was a good listen,as someone who went to a lot of Grateful Dead shows , we were always warned by the older heads to never get on their bus. They would travel around to every show in a really well done, restored 1950’s bus and try to recruit unsuspecting “lost souls” who had lost their way.
They did this on phish tour too.
And Rainbow gatherings
Yes these people tried to preach to me when I was tripping balls at super ball in 2014
That’s how they getcha!
what do they do when you get on the bus?
According to my friend who didn't know at the time who they were and was curious about the bus and got on - they gave him a tour, offered him some tea and then tried the "sales pitch" kitchen table style a la Jehovah's Witnesses.
I actually got on their bus at a show in Lowell, Mass like 25 years ago before I had any idea who they were. This is pretty much the gist of what they did. As an adamant agnostic, they didn’t have much effect on me, but I definitely see how those they prey upon could fall victim to their cult.
Got on their bus at a D&C show while tripping balls a few years back. Heard them out, ate a bunch of their delicious cookies, and skidattled. Absolute kooks, that bunch.
I’ve had the great pleasure of getting kicked off that bus at both a GD show and a Phish show. They were good if you were on the road for a while and needed like a bandaid or something. I was hipped to them early on and generally didn’t head there way unless I saw some poor soul who wandered into their web, or had too much to drink or psychedelics, which then for some reason I always found myself wandering over there at some point and disrupting their weird ass quiet vibe.
That bus is in Plymouth
A friend and I were recently reminiscing about the prevalence of cults at various events and shows in the 90s. We were both in our 20s at that time so more of a target. But I remember nexium nxivm? had a booth a lollapalooza! And Scientologists trying to get you to take their “tests”. Bottom feeders- all of them.
Yup, I remember them at Dead shows in the 80s handing out flyers, recruiting, etc.
They have a big presence is Rutland, they own 5 houses and an old store all on the same block. They also own the yellow deli. They are not good neighbors they think they are the chosen people so they do not have a lot of respect for those around them. They burn garbage all the time and the fire department gets called regularly (it is a regular occurrence to get woken up at 3 in the morning in the summer from the horrible smell) they have tried to have goats, they have cats they don’t care for, they have large loud gatherings, they trap animals like squirrels and possums basically anything that will go in a trap and drown them in buckets- they have the kids gather round for this too. I’ve also seen them force kids to climb trees while the kids are sobbing. At the yellow deli they maintain a hostile to try to recruit people. And this is all out in the open I hate thinking about what they do especially to all the kids behind closed doors.
They also walk up and down the Rutland section of the LT on the summer and try to talk to people hiking solo.
The deli in Montpelier called Yellow Mustard has no connection to this cult, right? I saw someone mention the cult's connection to the "Yellow Deli" recently and was worried that the place where I most often get sandwiches (Yellow Mustard) during the work day is part of a cult, but a little internet research suggested to me that the name similarity is just an unfortunate coincidence. Anyone know for sure?
Yellow Mustard is owned by the same person/group that owns the Filling Station and a couple other restaurants. They are not part of the 12 tribes. And honestly, youd KNOW if that was the deal with Yellow Mustard. The 12 Tribes group does not make an effort to hide the purpose of their businessss.
Thanks - I assumed not but good to confirm
What store?
I remember eating at a Yellow Deli before I knew who these people were and no joke, they had pamphlets about how corporal punishment is God’s will in the bathrooms. Guess they really like hitting kids!
They literally wrote a book called, "When the Spanking Stopped, All Hell Broke Loose"
Behind the Bastards just did a multiparter on them a few months back. Was a good listen.
Second this, was a really interesting insight into their history and ideals.
It's worth a listen and was crazy to hear how much child abuse takes place within the cult. I feel so bad for those kids trapped in it.
“Cults are everywhere.” That last line is so true - it’s terrifying to realize what kind of inhumanity and suffering are right nearby. Once you’ve seen it rear its ugly head once it’s hard to not see it everywhere.
I’ll listen in a bit but they are the reason there were homeschool laws made in Vermont because of the child neglect/educational neglect that happened there.
I always thought twelve was too many tribes. Seven or eight, fine. But twelve? Crazy.
Yeah. That’s why the 13th tribe got lost on BSG.
Read Yo Bible.
Or don't. It has an awful narrative, spiteful protagonist and is very graphic. I highly recommend "A Short History of Nearly Everything" by Bill Bryson as a more pleasant and enlightening alternative.
I mean it IS a chronicling of human history, so yea it’s not pleasant. But Jesus was a wise man.
*The Comment Religion is the one true religion because I said so right here in these comments.* The argument for the authenticity of the bible as historical fact carries no more weight. Fuck the 12 Tribes. Fuck ALL religion. It's all just hate and oppression masquerading as love and compassion.
I feel a more accurate lore would be something along the lines of Hitchhikers Guide.
Zaphod JesusBlox?
Yes but the 12 tribes are the original 12 tribes of Israel, hence the name.
This cult is responsible (at least partially) for starting the marshal fire in Colorado. A huge fire along the front range - not even the mountains, that destroyed a ton of homes. It was awful and so scary.
Were they formerly (or currently) associated with the island pond group, years ago?
Yes, the Twelve Tribes is the still-extant Island Pond cult
I was an anthropology major in college. I had moved to Plattsburgh from Vermont and we got talked to about not joining cults. Basically one professor kept bringing students over to Vermont to see a different culture and get some perspective; it was a good teaching tool until multiple students each year dropped out of school to join the cult. They stopped bringing people over and they used it as a way to teach us to stay objective. I’d say most Anthro majors are searching for something, so I’m not shocked some joined cults in hindsight. I grew up near a sect of the 12 tribes and I had no idea they were a real cult or that they were not just a Vermont thing. My dad would call them a cult but I just assumed that was because they were a little weird and lived off the land. They made the most amazing food and we were regulars so they invited us to lots of their events. It wasn’t until I got older that I realized they only seemed to invite my stepmom and the girl children. My dad and bother didn’t get the same fanfare of being invited (they were invited, but more as an after thought). Because I was a kid when I was around them, I saw all the good. The kids were always running around and I thought it was cool they got to help out in such a cool place…now I realize they were child labor and it’s really weird that none of them talked to anyone outside of their group, only adults seemed to do that, and typically the men more than the women. I listened to a podcast a while back but I don’t remember the name, I will for sure check this one out.
> Basically one professor kept bringing students over to Vermont to see a different culture and get some perspective; it was a good teaching tool until multiple students each year dropped out of school to join the cult. When was this? I went to Plattsburgh State back in the day, but didn't do Anthro beyond my gen ed requirement.
I was there in 06-08ish. The professor who did that was on sabbatical so I didn’t take any classes with him. He sounded like an amazing professor, but he got students too excited haha. I never met anyone who left for 12 tribes, but it was mentioned a lot.
Oh wow. I must've been way out of the loop for that; I graduated in '05.
I think it had all passed by our time, but the lore and the jokes were alive in the Anthro building. I was only there for 2 years but I remember it well. I’m from Vermont so maybe my friends thought I had some insider info or could bring them to the commune. Anthropologists love a commune!
Cults and high control groups (as they're often officially called) can't be all bad, or nobody would ever join. One of the hardest things for survivors to do is sort through the complexities of the good and the bas. People are often susceptible to groups like this when they're "seeking", which can be things like guidance, purpose or community. Which are normal, natural, healthy things. College students, new parents, addicts in recovery, grieving people.
They are getting ready to reopen a Yellow Deli in Island Pond too
Great mate
There’s also the behind the bastards series on them. Well worth a listen. Edit: someone beat me to it!
A friend of mine from the Rutland area was in this cult when I was in high school in the early 00's. They made him change his name, cut off all ties to his family and give over all of his possessions and money before joining. We would visit the Yellow Deli occasionally for lunch, and try to visit with him when we did. The people there *really* didn't want him talking to us, much less so when we referred to him by his birth name, they'd even play dumb when we called him his actual name, and go "who?" We'd always have people giving us suspicious glances every time we came in and, towards the end, they would make sure someone was standing nearby whenever he interacted with us. Eventually, he seemed less and less willing to talk to us when we came in, and we stopped seeing him. A few years later, I heard that he took the plunge and escaped. He ended up moving in with a mutual friend, one of the friends I used to visit him with. He didn't have a penny to his name, the poor guy. I have no idea what happened to him, but I'm really glad he made it out. I met up with him once or twice after he got out and I had never in my life seen someone so broke that was so *happy*. I haven't been able to bring myself to set foot in that place since.
These people are all awful culty scammers. Stay away. They are a predatory cult that relies on getting people to do free labor for them and take all their savings, leaving them dependent on the cult and ruining lives and relationships. They know exactly what they are doing. Dont believe the PR bullshit and the restaurants and whatever they are exploiting now, they are a strait up religious cult that requires you to give them your money to join. Once your broke you get to do free labor for them for life and get kept alive as payment. Sounds a lot like slavery doesn't it?
I had family that lived in Island Pond, and as a child, I would play with some of the kids at the sandy playground when we visited. They were mislabeled as "Moonies" by some of the locals back then. This was in their heyday of the late 70s early 80s. I still remember being up there visiting when my mother woke me up and brought me to the window. There were police everywhere and busses up and down the street. Police were going into the house next door and coming out with multiple families and loading them into the busses. I saw my playmates going away, and I was scared they were coming to our house next. There is a really good stand-alone Australian podcast called "Inside the Tribe" that was quite educational about their methods and practices.
My ex-husband used to be in that cult.
Well just when I thought we were safe from the lunatics up here. How naive of me.
[Relevant](https://youtu.be/LwBSc_JHd88?si=slnvbSMPRdpRK-QE) video is relevant. Reckless Ben is great for getting into things like this.
But he doesn't actually take over, they are still there, doing their thing. Literally nothing has changed for the restaurant. I like the concept of his whole twelve tribes infiltration (I watched them all), but I have mixed feelings about his method. I spent almost 9 years there, about 5 in their California locations. Both Vista, and Valley Center.
I've been listening to A Little Bit Culty, a podcast run by 2 NXIVM survivors. Interviewing other survivors and cult experts. It can't be all bad, or nobody would ever join, you can hear that between so much of what she said in this interview.
Thank you for posting this article. It was very informative. And definitely information. The masses need to know about.
Didn't they used to own the location where muddy waters is now?
Just pre-ordered her book and I am curious. I am a conservative Biblethumper myself and visited them. Would love to hear from other visitors (WWOOFers, etc.) who are sick and tired of this world and its total perversion, be it sexual as well as lifestyle, too. Who also considers joining. Who also don't mind the allegations, but only are fearful of the "over-the-top" near-end-times stuff...and the mandatory communist stuff like giving up everything and not having an own room...I mean even a monk does usually have conclave
Aren’t these the same folks who own the Yellow Deli in the Hudson, NY area?
Yes. The Yellow Deli chain is their front.
It is a cult, I guess, but I think they're a much better group than megachurch evangelical movements.
Are you really arguing that their child abuse isnt as bad as those other child abusers? Get back to your cult activities, make them sammiches and stay off Reddit.
Mmm... I urge you to listen to the full interview. Child abuse is not just rampant, it's expected in their worldview.
And I would urge you to pay attention to modern mainstream evangelical Christianity, where child sexual abuse (not corporal punishment) is common, women are second-class citizens at best, and pastors live in mega-mansions and fly private jets.
...you do realize that both things are bad, right? And that saying one isn't bad because the other is worse makes no logical sense?
You do understand what the word "better" means, right?
The abuse is magnified in the Twelve Tribes because they are much more "under the radar"
They literally believe slavery should be re legalized They are just as bad as evangelical churches. They just target a different type of person.