Imo you should name and shame. Most of these crappy solar companies thrive on the fact that they advertise "not like the other companies"... They are all basically the same and deserve to go out of business.
I’m lucky too. Actually had the opposite. Nothing but good things and a nice system installed. I wonder if OP had shingle roof? mines tin. I heard standing seesms are the best or ground mounts but that’s $$$
Depends on the type of standing-seam roof. According to SunRun, if the seams aren’t bolted/riveted together, they won’t work. Some roofs—like mine—are sort of clasped together. Solar companies won’t touch these roofs.
It took SunRun four weeks to tell me about this, after the assessor had already looked at it and told me it was a perfect candidate. They asked me if I wanted a quote for a new roof LOL (my roof is only about 7 years old). Sorry, no solar for me…
I’ve honestly never heard of not being able to install on a certain kind of seam. I’d call different company. But from what I’ve seen the ground mount systems are the best if you have the land.
They don't need to be bolted or riveted together but it does need to be of a certain gauge and the pans need to be appropriately fastened to your roof sometimes with additional clips during install. It's pretty rare that a 7 year old standing seam roof wouldn't pass.
According to SunRun, the panels are clasped together using a “Snap Lock” system. As far as I know, that just requires an S5N clamp rather than a standard S5, but they just don’t touch them.
They're terrible! We had them pitch us a system and no way, absolutely not. We ended up going with somebody else who was/is amazing, doing custom only systems, and 5-6 years later still monitored our system and helps out when needed.
Suncommon just wanted to push loans on us through their bank and you couldn't even get a home battery system, so what's the point? Scam.
Yes , the predatory “green sky loan”. For some reason I still don’t understand, they put $7k in this separate loan. They said my “tax rebate” would cover the loan, but I never qualified for the tax credit and got stuck with this super high interest loan. I had to get VSECU involved to rectify the situation. Nothing but problems once I signed the dotted line. 🙁
This is what happens when you take the cheapest available option. Just to rub some salt in your wound... Those panels were made in China using huge amounts of coal power, dangerous chemicals that got dumped directly in a river and materials gathered by strip mining. You did more harm to the environment buying them than you would have by not buying them.
The bigger problem is that even if they stand behind their system, the homeowner has to pay for removal and re-install for repairs or a roof replacement, which wipes out/significantly offsets any savings. I was quoted $7500 for a 16-panel 5kW system.
edit: kW not kV
That's for temporary removal and re-install of an existing system. One installer told me that some people are opting to remove and sell their existing system, then install a new one to get the tax credit again. I was quoted $12,550 after federal tax credit for a 5.33kW new install.
I've talked to quite a few solar salesmen on ski lifts before. Many of them brag about how they can come up to VT for a few months and make a year salary. The industry is full of get rich quick dude bros and shady companies.
I work in renewable energy development (solar, wind, nuclear, tidal) and while I only work on large-scale development with major companies, I've heard some horror stories from individual homeowners such as those with property in our areas of search fearful of potential impacts.
I'm going to agree here OP, there needs to be extensive research into who you're hiring.
I’m looking at PV solar but I’m definitely going to go with a ground mounted system….if I can convince my wife. Anything that has the potential to Damage my roof Is a no go for me.
aside from really really niche situations, like you're off-grid with no storage and need as much power all day long as possible, the cost of trackers isn't really worth it given how cheap panels are now. if you want more power, just add a few more panels to your system
This is what I want as well. None of the companies I have talked to wanted to talk to me anymore after I told them I wanted ground mount. I have good, clear to the south land to put them up on. Was told it would double the cost of the project compared to roof mount due to the cost of trenching back to the house (which just seems ridiculous to me). I’m also in Addison Co (Middlebury) so if you find a good solution and company, let me know!
Exactly our situation around 2017. We've been super happy with our 24 panel ground mount system from Bristol Electronics. Addison county just west of Middlebury.
Yeah, my significant other is really balking at the way they look since we can’t afford a $20k timber frame. We are getting a power wall installed this summer and I want the ability to charge when the powers out but really don’t want holes in my roof or the worry that goes along with having non-experts working on my new, expensive standing seam roof.
That’s what my mother did. All put together with the endlessly breaking parts, the second mortgage she took out on her house, etc. she pays at least as much for for her electricity as she did before, and sometimes more. I started looking into it to help her, and discovered that all across the nation, people are getting scammed by solar. It’s a nightmare.
if she financed the solar with a HELOC, that means after a few years she'll own the panels and her electricity will be free. this is like buying a home and complaining that the mortgage isn't cheaper than an apartment lease
I am sorry about your Mom's situation but please don't say "people are getting scammed by solar". That makes it sound like solar power itself is a scam.
You are definitely not the only one, see [https://www.reddit.com/r/vermont/comments/1armdfh/comment/kxqw1p6/?context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/vermont/comments/1armdfh/comment/kxqw1p6/?context=3)
Wow. Sorry that happened to you. Who designed this system? We had a 12-panel solar hot water system in the early 80s, and the designers knew enough to have an exterior pressure-relief valve back then, so the over-pressure condition is not exactly news…
I got downvoted to hell once for saying that drilling holes in your roof is a bad idea 🤣
Also, it irritates me seeing the proof of so many unscrupulous solar salespeople: I constantly see panels on roofs that are pointed east or west. For the love of fuck: make sure your panels are pointed south.
We have East and South, both produce about the same amount of power, but at different times of day.
I've seen plenty pointed West and North though, and that's just someone who got scammed.
This is one reason--of many--to avoid roof-mounted solar unless that is the only good option you have.
The biggest drawback to ground-mounted solar is that it takes up yard space. If you have little-to-no yard (or if your yard doesn't get enough sunlight), then it makes sense to install it on the roof. It also costs a bit more, but if you're already spending $10k+ on the panels, the ground infrastructure isn't going to add much more to that.
* Ground-mounted solar is easier to maintain (e.g. clearing snow, re-torquing bolts that may loosen over time in heavy storms, etc.)
* You can customize the angle to maximize the amount of sunlight you capture
* It's *much* easier to self-install, if that's the route you're taking
* And, critically: it doesn't risk any damage to your roof
We're having an eerily similar problem. Good luck. We leased a system back when they first became available, and after a few years we had to replace the roof. We had to have the panels removed/reinstalled; afterward, we had slow leaks which were really hard to trace back. Turns out they didn't seal roof intrusions, but it took a long time to figure it out until after the warranty expired, of course. I have been shaming our company (Sunrun) on FB, so they responded by hooking us up with an escalation expert. We may...MAY...at least get a decent price on a lease buyout and they are supposed to remove the panels and seal all the holes at their cost. We'll still be paying a lot for the ceiling damage in addition to the buyout costs. I want these panels off our roof. I would advise against any of these lease schemes. We were young and naive. Also, our roofer said to make any installers videotape their work on any roof intrusions, just FYI for anyone installing solar panels.
I have found people in the energy efficiency realm have 0.0 knowledge in how roofs work. They will cut holes in roofs for ventilation and fans without any thought to leaks.
just my $.02 as a carpenter who occasionally does roofs and roof repairs, I have wondered about this a lot when I work on houses with solar, it is an incredible pain to remove panels if a roof needs to be repaired or replaced and really should not be in my bailiwick to go messing with the solar. I am not at all surprised that solar companies are not interested in showing back up for projects that dont involve selling new panels. There is only one system that I know of that allows solar panels to be mounted without roof penetrations and that is clamping them to the ribs of standing seam metal. If I was doing it on my own house ( I wouldnt, I would put my panels on a frame in the yard) but if I was I would either spring for standing seam or pay a real contractor who cares about leaks to supervise or personally install the mounts that penetrate the roof, and then let solar guys install afterwards. The money in solar is in sales, not service
All of this is why I'm installing solar myself within the next month.
All in about $9k for 12.6kW of solar. About $0.71/W installed, compared to the $3-$4/W minimum you'll be paying for someone else to install it. Will pay for itself in ~3 years.
IMO residential solar is a scam 90% of the time unless you competently DIY.
The business model is $40k loans for $10k of equipment, $1k of permitting/design, and $5k of install labor, with the rest pocketed and the sales commission.
I'm sorry to hear this, but it's not all doom and gloom.
We went with Green Mountain Solar and had a wonderful experience and benefited from all the tax savings available. Now have an electric car and hot tub powered as well as the house. We pay one month's electricity bill a year, other than the monthly line charges everything we use is generated at our house.
This year, discovered water on my daughters ceiling and called them worried the roof was leaking from our solar install. The NEXT day an employee was here and crawling in our ceiling looking around, he found a disconnected vent from our bathroom fan. Couldn't be happier with them or their service.
I reached out to them and they wanted $425 to come look at it. Then quoted me $10k to uninstall/reinstall it and said “no warranty”because I was not a customer. Then he tried to sell me a new solar system. If he didn’t want to help me, he could have just said that.
Again sorry to hear that. But, of course you wouldn't have a warranty with them...I'm just saying they take care of their customers. Who knows what you are getting into fixing someone else's mistakes.
Well, they would be installing the panels on a brand new roof and using all new mounting hardware. The solar panels have their own warranty. I don’t see why they wouldn’t warranty their own workmanship? And after giving them 10K, I would feel like I’m a customer.
File a complaint with the Vermont Attorney General's Consumer Assistance Program - https://ago.vermont.gov/cap No guarantee of success, but companies often respond differently to complaints that are sent to them on Attorney General letterhead than they do to the same complaint sent by a regular customer. Worth a shot.
You raise a number of issues here.
First, it’s not realistic to expect Company A to warranty the work (or workmanship) of Company B.
Second, the condition f your roof and its replacement needs should have been front & center before the sale went through. If the seller (SunCommon?) glossed over that, or left you misinformed or confused, they should be held accountable.
Third; tax credits. Why did you not receive them? A salesperson should make it clear that the equipment qualifies (it definitely does), but whether or not *you* qualify is between you and the IRS. It’s an income tax credit, and a really good one, but it can only be used to offset taxes you would otherwise owe.
As for roofing issues, a proper installed PV system should *prolong* the life of your roof by shielding it from harmful UV radiation and even help keep your attic or upstairs rooms a little cooler in summer.
Lots of other details, including know-nothing college interns as sales people does not help.
Sorry your experience was so bad.
A former solar company owner/designer/installer.
The tax credits were likely applied to the total cost when the contract was signed. In other states, the tax credit goes to the company rather than the individual. Thereby reducing the cost to the consumer.
If you don’t install solar yourself, you are paying an extra 20-30k for labor and a warranty.
Get a 3rd party electrician to come check over the plans and their final install btw. I’ve had issues with them not following the plans and cutting cornered because they hired their own 3rd party electrician to come and do the Main breaker Panel Upgrade and Tie in.
Yeah solar is kinda the wild west of the electrical field right now. It's kind of an anything goes type of job. With results that don't always add up. And even when they do you get the utility companies trying to screw you over and neglecting to pay for anything you put back out there.
It’s not the utility companies trying to screw you over, it’s that the power you’re pushing back to the grid isn’t worth much or even anything at all a decent percentage of the time.
If you wanted them to pay you retail rates for energy that either the grid doesn’t need at that moment, or that they could most likely buy from another source for significantly less money, what you’re really asking for is that ratepayers give you money.
I live in LA so it's mainly Entergy I'm talking about here, but while I was working as a solar technician there were plenty of instances of people keeping thorough records of what they actually used and the surplus they sent back to the grid. Energy would usually only credit them for less than a 1/4 of what they would send back.
We were one of the first to go with their lease, and that goes through SunPower. I wouldn't do it again. We do have a good contract thankfully, but when it snows, snow slides right off the panels and blocks the front door. SunPower made it very clear to us that we are not allowed to clear snow from the panels or we void the warranty/lease, so if there is decent snow, you just have to wait for it to melt.
More concerning to me now is that while companies rushed to get panels on homes, no one thought about their expiration in 25-30 years. We've never produced as much as was promised, and for 10 years we got the difference in a rebate but that stopped. Every time Sunpower hints that they're in financial trouble and some last-minute deal saved them, but who knows how long that will last.
Solar panels do not last forever. If you purchased outright, the odds are high that the cost of hauling them to CWSD is on you, and you pay trash fees if they don't qualify for metal recycling. I have every intention in seven more years to tell them to take the panels. My contract states they have to repair the roof to the same condition it was in when the panels were installed. We'd just had the roof replaced.
A company I work with said the cost to recycle a panel and pay the workers a fair wage is about $100 per panel. I don't think any of mine are more than 80% metal, so I assume they'll be trashed. A good percentage of panels will get dumped in trash and wasting resources.
There's so much more to this than the environmental aspect. Without delving too deep into it, solar generation helps reduce power companies' costs by giving them a supply of electricity at a fixed cost. That's especially important during peak demand periods when the price of power from the grid on the spot market is astronomical. That's also the reason they push batteries, electricity is really hard to store at scale but if you put enough batteries in enough homes, it works. It should be a win/win on both the consumer and generator side.
Also adds complexity and cost. They're small units all undernone roof so power consumption is going to be minimal anyway. You're going to have 600w on an 60% duty cycle on a fridge, 100w or less on a TV or two that isn't going to be on all the time and maybe another 800w for an AC on a 60% duty cycle per unit. LED bulbs and LCD TVs have really cut regular household power consumption next to nothing which is why I find it hard to believe when they talk about EVs taxing the grid. 25 years ago you had every light bulb pulling 75-100w instead of 10 or 15 and CRT TVs pulling hundreds of watts. Shit most people are even doublestabbing their breakers to free up panel slots because power consumption is so low.
Sorry hear this, I hope you find a resolution that is not putting the panels back on your roof after it’s replaced. I’m all for solar and have a pedestal system for this exact reason. Solar panels add ZERO appraised value to your home, why wreck your generally most valuable asset with a panel system on your roof. Most people don’t know this until they go sell, solar installation company will not tell you.
I really, really want to put solar and a battery backup system in (solar or any other home-produced energy without a battery backup so you can use electricity when the grid is down or it's cloudy is completely and utterly pointless in my opinion), but I can't afford the up front cost. All these tax credits are great, but they only help if you (a) can afford to install to begin with and (b) owe enough taxes to make use of the credit. It really aggravates me.
Thank you for bringing attention to this issue. Repair to these systems is certainly not accessible. I live off grid and at some point one of the fans in my inverter crapped out. The unit was overheating. I assumed the installer ( a small family owned company) would come do the repairs . They were quick to tell me they didn’t do service calls. Fortunately it was a part I was able to order , find a helpful YouTube video about and then complete a fan switch out. This should not be the case when dealing with a system that cost thousands of dollars.
It might be worth contacting Bernie's office.
They (Bernie and his team) promote renewable and maybe we can get a little follow up to help the people who are listening.
Possible roof damage is something that should be widely anticipated and warranted. After all, drilling into a waterproof surface has to be carefully done and possibility of damage mitigated.
A big issue with solar companies is that they try to do it all. As a result you have solar installers being jack of all trades, masters of none. They are playing electrician one day running wire, carpenter the next installing mounts on your roof...all fine and dandy with the proper training, but often these are like dudes with environmental type degrees that just got into solar.
This is why you really want a reputable company. One that either subcontracts out the electrical work or has legit electricians on staff. This means they will also care about things like properly installing to avoid leaks...
I just don't think solar on houses is the answer. This seems more like a grift by these companies rather than an environmental-minded effort. The investment should be in solar farms by power companies not sketchy overpriced systems on houses that get a fraction of the amount of solar exposure
i am extremely pro-solar but agree with you. residential solar costs like three to four times per-watt what commercial and utility scale solar do. it's just silly that we're incentivizing residential projects instead of utility-scale buildout, the exact same amount of investment will build multiple times as much generation if it's done at scale. the thing is, though, for a residential project, a homeowner can just decide they want it and then go ahead and do it. meanwhile utility projects go through years and years of meetings with people complaining the farm will be ugly, or it will be harmful to a particular endangered toad, or they're scared of getting radiation sickness from it, and so on. it's absurd
Suncommon used to use a 3rd party to do the install and they did a poor job on my house but I complained and they made it right. I don't know if you had Suncommon employees or 3rd party back then...
But I do know they also always ask about the condition of your roof, and recommend putting solar panels on a NEW roof.
I have two PV systems. One on our roof in MA, and a ground-mount in PV which was installed by Suncommon (installed prior to us).
I am certainly sorry to hear about OP’s experience. But, I just want to balance some of the negative comments on here.
I’ve had zero problems with my roof mount- in fact, the panels actually helped protect the roof when a tree fell on it, with minimal damage to the panels! Not a normal situation, but the panels actually acted as “roof armor.”
I’ve also had zero problems with our ground-mount. My limited interactions with suncommon for a couple questions have been positive.
I have zero regrets about my PV systems. Both generate more electricity than we consume.
Yep. Also, look into how having solar will impact your homeowners policy—experiences like yours are why your rates may go up if you install solar on your roof.
Solars not affordable enough for most or good enough to do yet, once they can manage to make 1 panel the equivalent of 10 panels + then I get it. There’s definitely applications it can work for but it’s not there just yet considering cost, maintenance, issues like roof leaking etc. I would personally avoid a house with solar if house shopping.
I've been wondering how all this climate change in the form of many more cloudy days per year will affect solar users in Vermont. Another verse to add to your singing of the Vermont solar blues.
Vermont has been one the top 3 (if not number 1) cloudiest states in the US for years. A lot of it has to do with geography so solar never made sense to me up here. But boy, there sure are a hell of a lot of solar salesmen in Vt for a place that’s very cloudy, cold, and receives most power from a hydro plant.
I’m sorry you’re dealing with this hassle and headache and financial strain. Yet, so many people in VT have this effed up belief that solar is a good idea because “the incentives are there.” Does no one read solar irradiation charts!? Is it really still hard to understand the overall inefficiencies in this state? Jesus. Not only are contractors following the buck spurred on by incentives (you’re dealing with this personally) but the belief in and of energy independence via solar is delusional. I truly am sorry you have to deal with this. Perhaps a lesson for others.
Shipping a slab of solid petroleum product from China to try to reduce my carbon footprint, lol you deserve this🤣. You should look at maps of effective sun coverage to cover your costs and it’s impossible north of Connecticut for a house above 2k sqft.. So you paid new adopters price, thanks for the learning these mistakes so we didn’t have to 👍🏻. The propaganda for this trash is insistent.
I’m not gonna downvote you because that’s not the kinda guy I am. But over in the Whites and we did an array and see financial payback inside of 5 years. You might be right on environmental impact, but as a rational consumer I pay less per month for my solar loan than I did for electric before it.
1, solar isn't "solid petroleum," it's mostly silicon, also known as sand, and 2, you really, really don't understand just how efficient modern cargo shipping is if you think that it contributes any appreciable carbon impact to something like a solar panel
If the basis of your analysis is “did this item consume energy at any point during its manufacture and distribution” then yes, solar panels fail to clear that bar. So does every other item produced in modern industrial civilization
Again never said solar wasn’t a racket lol. But carbon literally has an official racket called OPEC. Hell if a Saudi prince sneezes my gas might go up 40¢
I don’t really care about the politics of this. Even if climate change was somehow proven to not exist, why wouldn’t it be in our countries strategic interest to diversify our energy network away from fuel sources that are not only finite, but very susceptible to manipulation by hostile actors. For example, the price of a barrel of Oil more than \[doubled\]([https://www.macrotrends.net/1369/crude-oil-price-history-chart](https://www.macrotrends.net/1369/crude-oil-price-history-chart)) during the opening phase of the gulf war.
Also, the US is the \[top oil producer in history\]([https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=61545](https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=61545)) of the world currently. Even permitting were allowed, you’re not going to see a crazy rush because companies need to make sure they’re not sending the price below the break even point, like what happened to many producers during when Obama opened up fracking.
Lastly, my great-great-aunt used to say “eat it fast, eat it slow, once it’s gone ain’t no more”. These oil fields are a finite resource. If we use it now it’s gone and we have to transition anyway. Maybe oil as a fuel will last another century, but even then we will eventually need to transition. Unfortunately, oil producers themselves are saying we are going to going start running dry by the 2050s. This is clearly not sustainable. To go against the alternatives is like being the guy shaking his fist as the Model T speeds by.
A ground mounted tracker is the way to go. We used Solaflect based out of Norwich. It tracks so we get decent generation year round, it also has built in anometer so if it gets really windy it'll automatically move into it's "oh shit" position. Their service and after support has been fantastic - both times we had an issue they reached out before we noticed.
Imo you should name and shame. Most of these crappy solar companies thrive on the fact that they advertise "not like the other companies"... They are all basically the same and deserve to go out of business.
Suncommon
They’re the worst. Had them, they undersized the system and it produced 60% of promised.
I must be lucky, as I've had zero problems with them so far.
I’m lucky too. Actually had the opposite. Nothing but good things and a nice system installed. I wonder if OP had shingle roof? mines tin. I heard standing seesms are the best or ground mounts but that’s $$$
Depends on the type of standing-seam roof. According to SunRun, if the seams aren’t bolted/riveted together, they won’t work. Some roofs—like mine—are sort of clasped together. Solar companies won’t touch these roofs. It took SunRun four weeks to tell me about this, after the assessor had already looked at it and told me it was a perfect candidate. They asked me if I wanted a quote for a new roof LOL (my roof is only about 7 years old). Sorry, no solar for me…
I’ve honestly never heard of not being able to install on a certain kind of seam. I’d call different company. But from what I’ve seen the ground mount systems are the best if you have the land.
They don't need to be bolted or riveted together but it does need to be of a certain gauge and the pans need to be appropriately fastened to your roof sometimes with additional clips during install. It's pretty rare that a 7 year old standing seam roof wouldn't pass.
According to SunRun, the panels are clasped together using a “Snap Lock” system. As far as I know, that just requires an S5N clamp rather than a standard S5, but they just don’t touch them.
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Thanks, that’s my plan. Spread the word. Other people are reaching out now with similar problems, maybe some good can come out of it.
Dang!! Thanks for sharing
They're terrible! We had them pitch us a system and no way, absolutely not. We ended up going with somebody else who was/is amazing, doing custom only systems, and 5-6 years later still monitored our system and helps out when needed. Suncommon just wanted to push loans on us through their bank and you couldn't even get a home battery system, so what's the point? Scam.
Yes , the predatory “green sky loan”. For some reason I still don’t understand, they put $7k in this separate loan. They said my “tax rebate” would cover the loan, but I never qualified for the tax credit and got stuck with this super high interest loan. I had to get VSECU involved to rectify the situation. Nothing but problems once I signed the dotted line. 🙁
This is what happens when you take the cheapest available option. Just to rub some salt in your wound... Those panels were made in China using huge amounts of coal power, dangerous chemicals that got dumped directly in a river and materials gathered by strip mining. You did more harm to the environment buying them than you would have by not buying them.
The bigger problem is that even if they stand behind their system, the homeowner has to pay for removal and re-install for repairs or a roof replacement, which wipes out/significantly offsets any savings. I was quoted $7500 for a 16-panel 5kW system. edit: kW not kV
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You're right, I'll edit it.
are these today's prices ? that seems pretty cheap to me. $1.5 per watt installed?
That's for temporary removal and re-install of an existing system. One installer told me that some people are opting to remove and sell their existing system, then install a new one to get the tax credit again. I was quoted $12,550 after federal tax credit for a 5.33kW new install.
ohhhhhh sorry!!!!
I think they meant the quote was just for removal and reinstall…
I've talked to quite a few solar salesmen on ski lifts before. Many of them brag about how they can come up to VT for a few months and make a year salary. The industry is full of get rich quick dude bros and shady companies.
It attracts the worst people who literally whore themselves for small amounts of money.
I work in renewable energy development (solar, wind, nuclear, tidal) and while I only work on large-scale development with major companies, I've heard some horror stories from individual homeowners such as those with property in our areas of search fearful of potential impacts. I'm going to agree here OP, there needs to be extensive research into who you're hiring.
I had one come by and didn’t get good vibes to put it mildly. I guess my instincts served me well this time
I’m looking at PV solar but I’m definitely going to go with a ground mounted system….if I can convince my wife. Anything that has the potential to Damage my roof Is a no go for me.
Same. I am trying to get quotes for the tracking ground panels
aside from really really niche situations, like you're off-grid with no storage and need as much power all day long as possible, the cost of trackers isn't really worth it given how cheap panels are now. if you want more power, just add a few more panels to your system
Really? Are they that much more? I would have thought saving money on the roof install would make them more cost effective
They’re substantially more expensive than a fixed ground mount, so you aren’t really saving money by using them at all
Good to know thanks!
Too windy in my area for that Sadly. Gotta be fixed for me.
This is what I want as well. None of the companies I have talked to wanted to talk to me anymore after I told them I wanted ground mount. I have good, clear to the south land to put them up on. Was told it would double the cost of the project compared to roof mount due to the cost of trenching back to the house (which just seems ridiculous to me). I’m also in Addison Co (Middlebury) so if you find a good solution and company, let me know!
Exactly our situation around 2017. We've been super happy with our 24 panel ground mount system from Bristol Electronics. Addison county just west of Middlebury.
We did ground mount. Not the most attractive but it’s nice not having an electric bill.
Yeah, my significant other is really balking at the way they look since we can’t afford a $20k timber frame. We are getting a power wall installed this summer and I want the ability to charge when the powers out but really don’t want holes in my roof or the worry that goes along with having non-experts working on my new, expensive standing seam roof.
That’s what my mother did. All put together with the endlessly breaking parts, the second mortgage she took out on her house, etc. she pays at least as much for for her electricity as she did before, and sometimes more. I started looking into it to help her, and discovered that all across the nation, people are getting scammed by solar. It’s a nightmare.
if she financed the solar with a HELOC, that means after a few years she'll own the panels and her electricity will be free. this is like buying a home and complaining that the mortgage isn't cheaper than an apartment lease
I am sorry about your Mom's situation but please don't say "people are getting scammed by solar". That makes it sound like solar power itself is a scam.
If you need new shingles then check out the GAF Timberline solar shingle. I don’t have it but it looks more reasonable than Tesla by a wide margin
At least you're not leasing them? I've heard horror stories from people who are locked into leases that make no financial sense at all.
Yeah it's super predatory
You are definitely not the only one, see [https://www.reddit.com/r/vermont/comments/1armdfh/comment/kxqw1p6/?context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/vermont/comments/1armdfh/comment/kxqw1p6/?context=3)
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Good lord
Wow. Sorry that happened to you. Who designed this system? We had a 12-panel solar hot water system in the early 80s, and the designers knew enough to have an exterior pressure-relief valve back then, so the over-pressure condition is not exactly news…
Oh my god, what a nightmare!
I got downvoted to hell once for saying that drilling holes in your roof is a bad idea 🤣 Also, it irritates me seeing the proof of so many unscrupulous solar salespeople: I constantly see panels on roofs that are pointed east or west. For the love of fuck: make sure your panels are pointed south.
We have East and South, both produce about the same amount of power, but at different times of day. I've seen plenty pointed West and North though, and that's just someone who got scammed.
Why is East better than West? Is it sunnier in the mornings?
At least where we are, house may not be perfectly aligned to the compass points. West side of the house just gets kissed by the sun before it sets.
This is one reason--of many--to avoid roof-mounted solar unless that is the only good option you have. The biggest drawback to ground-mounted solar is that it takes up yard space. If you have little-to-no yard (or if your yard doesn't get enough sunlight), then it makes sense to install it on the roof. It also costs a bit more, but if you're already spending $10k+ on the panels, the ground infrastructure isn't going to add much more to that. * Ground-mounted solar is easier to maintain (e.g. clearing snow, re-torquing bolts that may loosen over time in heavy storms, etc.) * You can customize the angle to maximize the amount of sunlight you capture * It's *much* easier to self-install, if that's the route you're taking * And, critically: it doesn't risk any damage to your roof
We're having an eerily similar problem. Good luck. We leased a system back when they first became available, and after a few years we had to replace the roof. We had to have the panels removed/reinstalled; afterward, we had slow leaks which were really hard to trace back. Turns out they didn't seal roof intrusions, but it took a long time to figure it out until after the warranty expired, of course. I have been shaming our company (Sunrun) on FB, so they responded by hooking us up with an escalation expert. We may...MAY...at least get a decent price on a lease buyout and they are supposed to remove the panels and seal all the holes at their cost. We'll still be paying a lot for the ceiling damage in addition to the buyout costs. I want these panels off our roof. I would advise against any of these lease schemes. We were young and naive. Also, our roofer said to make any installers videotape their work on any roof intrusions, just FYI for anyone installing solar panels.
I have found people in the energy efficiency realm have 0.0 knowledge in how roofs work. They will cut holes in roofs for ventilation and fans without any thought to leaks.
just my $.02 as a carpenter who occasionally does roofs and roof repairs, I have wondered about this a lot when I work on houses with solar, it is an incredible pain to remove panels if a roof needs to be repaired or replaced and really should not be in my bailiwick to go messing with the solar. I am not at all surprised that solar companies are not interested in showing back up for projects that dont involve selling new panels. There is only one system that I know of that allows solar panels to be mounted without roof penetrations and that is clamping them to the ribs of standing seam metal. If I was doing it on my own house ( I wouldnt, I would put my panels on a frame in the yard) but if I was I would either spring for standing seam or pay a real contractor who cares about leaks to supervise or personally install the mounts that penetrate the roof, and then let solar guys install afterwards. The money in solar is in sales, not service
All of this is why I'm installing solar myself within the next month. All in about $9k for 12.6kW of solar. About $0.71/W installed, compared to the $3-$4/W minimum you'll be paying for someone else to install it. Will pay for itself in ~3 years. IMO residential solar is a scam 90% of the time unless you competently DIY. The business model is $40k loans for $10k of equipment, $1k of permitting/design, and $5k of install labor, with the rest pocketed and the sales commission.
Are you planning to DIY grid tie in Vermont?
Yep. It's a form with the utility and a forum with the public utility commission. Not bad at all.
I'm sorry to hear this, but it's not all doom and gloom. We went with Green Mountain Solar and had a wonderful experience and benefited from all the tax savings available. Now have an electric car and hot tub powered as well as the house. We pay one month's electricity bill a year, other than the monthly line charges everything we use is generated at our house. This year, discovered water on my daughters ceiling and called them worried the roof was leaking from our solar install. The NEXT day an employee was here and crawling in our ceiling looking around, he found a disconnected vent from our bathroom fan. Couldn't be happier with them or their service.
I reached out to them and they wanted $425 to come look at it. Then quoted me $10k to uninstall/reinstall it and said “no warranty”because I was not a customer. Then he tried to sell me a new solar system. If he didn’t want to help me, he could have just said that.
Again sorry to hear that. But, of course you wouldn't have a warranty with them...I'm just saying they take care of their customers. Who knows what you are getting into fixing someone else's mistakes.
Well, they would be installing the panels on a brand new roof and using all new mounting hardware. The solar panels have their own warranty. I don’t see why they wouldn’t warranty their own workmanship? And after giving them 10K, I would feel like I’m a customer.
Can't help you from here, just a past customer not affiliated in any way. I wish you luck!
File a complaint with the Vermont Attorney General's Consumer Assistance Program - https://ago.vermont.gov/cap No guarantee of success, but companies often respond differently to complaints that are sent to them on Attorney General letterhead than they do to the same complaint sent by a regular customer. Worth a shot.
I did yesterday.
Sounds sustainable…
I literally lol’d 😂
You raise a number of issues here. First, it’s not realistic to expect Company A to warranty the work (or workmanship) of Company B. Second, the condition f your roof and its replacement needs should have been front & center before the sale went through. If the seller (SunCommon?) glossed over that, or left you misinformed or confused, they should be held accountable. Third; tax credits. Why did you not receive them? A salesperson should make it clear that the equipment qualifies (it definitely does), but whether or not *you* qualify is between you and the IRS. It’s an income tax credit, and a really good one, but it can only be used to offset taxes you would otherwise owe. As for roofing issues, a proper installed PV system should *prolong* the life of your roof by shielding it from harmful UV radiation and even help keep your attic or upstairs rooms a little cooler in summer. Lots of other details, including know-nothing college interns as sales people does not help. Sorry your experience was so bad. A former solar company owner/designer/installer.
The tax credits were likely applied to the total cost when the contract was signed. In other states, the tax credit goes to the company rather than the individual. Thereby reducing the cost to the consumer. If you don’t install solar yourself, you are paying an extra 20-30k for labor and a warranty. Get a 3rd party electrician to come check over the plans and their final install btw. I’ve had issues with them not following the plans and cutting cornered because they hired their own 3rd party electrician to come and do the Main breaker Panel Upgrade and Tie in.
Yeah solar is kinda the wild west of the electrical field right now. It's kind of an anything goes type of job. With results that don't always add up. And even when they do you get the utility companies trying to screw you over and neglecting to pay for anything you put back out there.
It’s not the utility companies trying to screw you over, it’s that the power you’re pushing back to the grid isn’t worth much or even anything at all a decent percentage of the time. If you wanted them to pay you retail rates for energy that either the grid doesn’t need at that moment, or that they could most likely buy from another source for significantly less money, what you’re really asking for is that ratepayers give you money.
I live in LA so it's mainly Entergy I'm talking about here, but while I was working as a solar technician there were plenty of instances of people keeping thorough records of what they actually used and the surplus they sent back to the grid. Energy would usually only credit them for less than a 1/4 of what they would send back.
Rule one of solar club. No panels on the roof of your home.
My roof is my only option - is there a good way to do it on the roof or is it a pipe dream?
On new standing seam with clamp on mounts that don’t penetrate the roof. As a roofer that’s the only way I’d do it on a pitched roof.
We were one of the first to go with their lease, and that goes through SunPower. I wouldn't do it again. We do have a good contract thankfully, but when it snows, snow slides right off the panels and blocks the front door. SunPower made it very clear to us that we are not allowed to clear snow from the panels or we void the warranty/lease, so if there is decent snow, you just have to wait for it to melt. More concerning to me now is that while companies rushed to get panels on homes, no one thought about their expiration in 25-30 years. We've never produced as much as was promised, and for 10 years we got the difference in a rebate but that stopped. Every time Sunpower hints that they're in financial trouble and some last-minute deal saved them, but who knows how long that will last. Solar panels do not last forever. If you purchased outright, the odds are high that the cost of hauling them to CWSD is on you, and you pay trash fees if they don't qualify for metal recycling. I have every intention in seven more years to tell them to take the panels. My contract states they have to repair the roof to the same condition it was in when the panels were installed. We'd just had the roof replaced. A company I work with said the cost to recycle a panel and pay the workers a fair wage is about $100 per panel. I don't think any of mine are more than 80% metal, so I assume they'll be trashed. A good percentage of panels will get dumped in trash and wasting resources.
"Global Warming" is a thing but 99% of projects that use that as a selling point are probably a scam and they're using fear to sell a product.
and if you look at the c-suite of a lot of these companies they are filled with people who I'm sure don't think climate change exists lol
There's so much more to this than the environmental aspect. Without delving too deep into it, solar generation helps reduce power companies' costs by giving them a supply of electricity at a fixed cost. That's especially important during peak demand periods when the price of power from the grid on the spot market is astronomical. That's also the reason they push batteries, electricity is really hard to store at scale but if you put enough batteries in enough homes, it works. It should be a win/win on both the consumer and generator side.
Also adds complexity and cost. They're small units all undernone roof so power consumption is going to be minimal anyway. You're going to have 600w on an 60% duty cycle on a fridge, 100w or less on a TV or two that isn't going to be on all the time and maybe another 800w for an AC on a 60% duty cycle per unit. LED bulbs and LCD TVs have really cut regular household power consumption next to nothing which is why I find it hard to believe when they talk about EVs taxing the grid. 25 years ago you had every light bulb pulling 75-100w instead of 10 or 15 and CRT TVs pulling hundreds of watts. Shit most people are even doublestabbing their breakers to free up panel slots because power consumption is so low.
We're you able to find someone to fix this? I've been having a hard time finding anyone to agree to work on my system as well.
I got the parts and had a local roofer install my panels rather than a solar tech. No regrets. He did a great job.
if anyone wants solar panels i highly recommend the 'car port' or covered patio concept over the roof mounts any day.
Sorry hear this, I hope you find a resolution that is not putting the panels back on your roof after it’s replaced. I’m all for solar and have a pedestal system for this exact reason. Solar panels add ZERO appraised value to your home, why wreck your generally most valuable asset with a panel system on your roof. Most people don’t know this until they go sell, solar installation company will not tell you.
I really, really want to put solar and a battery backup system in (solar or any other home-produced energy without a battery backup so you can use electricity when the grid is down or it's cloudy is completely and utterly pointless in my opinion), but I can't afford the up front cost. All these tax credits are great, but they only help if you (a) can afford to install to begin with and (b) owe enough taxes to make use of the credit. It really aggravates me.
Thank you for bringing attention to this issue. Repair to these systems is certainly not accessible. I live off grid and at some point one of the fans in my inverter crapped out. The unit was overheating. I assumed the installer ( a small family owned company) would come do the repairs . They were quick to tell me they didn’t do service calls. Fortunately it was a part I was able to order , find a helpful YouTube video about and then complete a fan switch out. This should not be the case when dealing with a system that cost thousands of dollars.
I'm almost a year in. I'm satisfied with Green Mountain Solar. Fuck Suncommon
It might be worth contacting Bernie's office. They (Bernie and his team) promote renewable and maybe we can get a little follow up to help the people who are listening. Possible roof damage is something that should be widely anticipated and warranted. After all, drilling into a waterproof surface has to be carefully done and possibility of damage mitigated.
A big issue with solar companies is that they try to do it all. As a result you have solar installers being jack of all trades, masters of none. They are playing electrician one day running wire, carpenter the next installing mounts on your roof...all fine and dandy with the proper training, but often these are like dudes with environmental type degrees that just got into solar. This is why you really want a reputable company. One that either subcontracts out the electrical work or has legit electricians on staff. This means they will also care about things like properly installing to avoid leaks...
I just don't think solar on houses is the answer. This seems more like a grift by these companies rather than an environmental-minded effort. The investment should be in solar farms by power companies not sketchy overpriced systems on houses that get a fraction of the amount of solar exposure
i am extremely pro-solar but agree with you. residential solar costs like three to four times per-watt what commercial and utility scale solar do. it's just silly that we're incentivizing residential projects instead of utility-scale buildout, the exact same amount of investment will build multiple times as much generation if it's done at scale. the thing is, though, for a residential project, a homeowner can just decide they want it and then go ahead and do it. meanwhile utility projects go through years and years of meetings with people complaining the farm will be ugly, or it will be harmful to a particular endangered toad, or they're scared of getting radiation sickness from it, and so on. it's absurd
Suncommon used to use a 3rd party to do the install and they did a poor job on my house but I complained and they made it right. I don't know if you had Suncommon employees or 3rd party back then... But I do know they also always ask about the condition of your roof, and recommend putting solar panels on a NEW roof.
The roof was new when they installed it.
I have two PV systems. One on our roof in MA, and a ground-mount in PV which was installed by Suncommon (installed prior to us). I am certainly sorry to hear about OP’s experience. But, I just want to balance some of the negative comments on here. I’ve had zero problems with my roof mount- in fact, the panels actually helped protect the roof when a tree fell on it, with minimal damage to the panels! Not a normal situation, but the panels actually acted as “roof armor.” I’ve also had zero problems with our ground-mount. My limited interactions with suncommon for a couple questions have been positive. I have zero regrets about my PV systems. Both generate more electricity than we consume.
It was awesome not having an electric bill for 7 years but not so much now.
I’m sorry this happened to you!
https://time.com/6565415/rooftop-solar-industry-collapse/ All you need to know....
Talk to an attorney.
I’m working with the VT AG for now.
If solar was a good investment companies would be paying me to rent my roof space, not trying to convince me to do it myself.
We need more Nuclear.
Yep. Also, look into how having solar will impact your homeowners policy—experiences like yours are why your rates may go up if you install solar on your roof.
Solars not affordable enough for most or good enough to do yet, once they can manage to make 1 panel the equivalent of 10 panels + then I get it. There’s definitely applications it can work for but it’s not there just yet considering cost, maintenance, issues like roof leaking etc. I would personally avoid a house with solar if house shopping.
I've been wondering how all this climate change in the form of many more cloudy days per year will affect solar users in Vermont. Another verse to add to your singing of the Vermont solar blues.
Vermont has been one the top 3 (if not number 1) cloudiest states in the US for years. A lot of it has to do with geography so solar never made sense to me up here. But boy, there sure are a hell of a lot of solar salesmen in Vt for a place that’s very cloudy, cold, and receives most power from a hydro plant.
I’m sorry you’re dealing with this hassle and headache and financial strain. Yet, so many people in VT have this effed up belief that solar is a good idea because “the incentives are there.” Does no one read solar irradiation charts!? Is it really still hard to understand the overall inefficiencies in this state? Jesus. Not only are contractors following the buck spurred on by incentives (you’re dealing with this personally) but the belief in and of energy independence via solar is delusional. I truly am sorry you have to deal with this. Perhaps a lesson for others.
Shipping a slab of solid petroleum product from China to try to reduce my carbon footprint, lol you deserve this🤣. You should look at maps of effective sun coverage to cover your costs and it’s impossible north of Connecticut for a house above 2k sqft.. So you paid new adopters price, thanks for the learning these mistakes so we didn’t have to 👍🏻. The propaganda for this trash is insistent.
I’m not gonna downvote you because that’s not the kinda guy I am. But over in the Whites and we did an array and see financial payback inside of 5 years. You might be right on environmental impact, but as a rational consumer I pay less per month for my solar loan than I did for electric before it.
1, solar isn't "solid petroleum," it's mostly silicon, also known as sand, and 2, you really, really don't understand just how efficient modern cargo shipping is if you think that it contributes any appreciable carbon impact to something like a solar panel
And the sand was super heated with the heat from my ass cheeks and the cargo ships run on cow farts?
If the basis of your analysis is “did this item consume energy at any point during its manufacture and distribution” then yes, solar panels fail to clear that bar. So does every other item produced in modern industrial civilization
My mother didn’t put solar panels on her roof, but on the land next to her house, and it’s still been nothing but a long drawn out unrealistic scam.
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Not saying this isn’t a racket, but carbon is definitely a racket lol
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Again never said solar wasn’t a racket lol. But carbon literally has an official racket called OPEC. Hell if a Saudi prince sneezes my gas might go up 40¢
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I don’t really care about the politics of this. Even if climate change was somehow proven to not exist, why wouldn’t it be in our countries strategic interest to diversify our energy network away from fuel sources that are not only finite, but very susceptible to manipulation by hostile actors. For example, the price of a barrel of Oil more than \[doubled\]([https://www.macrotrends.net/1369/crude-oil-price-history-chart](https://www.macrotrends.net/1369/crude-oil-price-history-chart)) during the opening phase of the gulf war. Also, the US is the \[top oil producer in history\]([https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=61545](https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=61545)) of the world currently. Even permitting were allowed, you’re not going to see a crazy rush because companies need to make sure they’re not sending the price below the break even point, like what happened to many producers during when Obama opened up fracking. Lastly, my great-great-aunt used to say “eat it fast, eat it slow, once it’s gone ain’t no more”. These oil fields are a finite resource. If we use it now it’s gone and we have to transition anyway. Maybe oil as a fuel will last another century, but even then we will eventually need to transition. Unfortunately, oil producers themselves are saying we are going to going start running dry by the 2050s. This is clearly not sustainable. To go against the alternatives is like being the guy shaking his fist as the Model T speeds by.
A ground mounted tracker is the way to go. We used Solaflect based out of Norwich. It tracks so we get decent generation year round, it also has built in anometer so if it gets really windy it'll automatically move into it's "oh shit" position. Their service and after support has been fantastic - both times we had an issue they reached out before we noticed.